More Money Podcast - 361 Who Can You Trust in the Financial Industry? - Huston Loke, Executive Vice President of FSRA

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

What’s the difference between a financial advisor and a financial planner? How do you know if you can trust the person selling you life insurance? My guest this week is answering these questions and so much more! Joining me today is Huston Loke, the Executive Vice President of Market Conduct at the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario (FSRA). Huston Loke, along with FSRA, aims to help protect consumers getting a mortgage, buying life insurance, and working with financial professionals. The Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario (FSRA) was launched in 2019 but has already made significant progress in helping protect consumers seeking financial advice and services. Huston has previously served as a committee member of the Financial Stability Board and an advisor to the CEO of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC), and as the Director of Corporate Finance at the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC). In this episode, Huston shares what exactly FSRA is doing to help protect consumers in Ontario and the red flags to look out for when seeking financial services. Additionally, he also explains the difference in financial titles and services that tend to confuse most consumers. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/361 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 361. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back. Hopefully you were able to join me last Wednesday when I hosted that virtual event through National Bank. I'm not sure if they're doing a replay. No clue, but hopefully you were there to witness all of me in my glory. It was really, it's, I honestly have not done an in-person, even though it was like hosted or, you know, put out into the world virtually. I haven't been to an event or done a speaking engagement rather where I was there in person. Everything has been literally from my home computer laptop. I did one last

year, but it was on a stage and similarly, you know, projected to a bunch of audience members virtually. And that was actually really intimidating because I hadn't been on a stage at that point. It'd been years, like two-ish years. So it was really exciting to get back on the trolley, the horse. What's the saying? I can't remember. It was exciting to do it again. Anyway, so hopefully you joined me. But joining me today for this episode is Houston Loke. He is the Executive Vice President of Market Conduct at the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario, or FSRA, if you want to. You can find more information about FSRA at fsrao.ca. And I will include a bunch of links and resources in the show notes for this episode afterwards. But again,

you can find it at jessicamorehouse.com slash 361 or go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast. But a little bit more about Houston. So in his role as EVP of market conduct at Vistra, among other things, he helps to protect consumers getting a mortgage, buying life insurance, and of course, working with financial planners and financial advisors. So in case you don't know, the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario was launched in 2019, but has already made some significant progress in a number of areas. And we will kind of touch on these in this episode. But just to give you an idea, they have made some progress in restricting the use of the financial planner, financial advisor title, which we see all the time in the

news, who is and isn't qualified or not qualified. Also enhancing the education and experience requirements for mortgage brokers to better protect consumers and enhancing the supervision of life insurance agents to help ensure consumers are treated fairly. So really making sure that the consumers are not, you know, getting swindled or getting bad advice or, you know, ultimately the whole point of it is to make sure that consumers are protected and thus will have more faith and trust in the overall financial industry. Now, just to give you a little idea, I think we talk about this in the episode, but just to give you a little hint of Houston's career, it's really predominantly been in public service and kind of started in 2008 during the recession. So he used to work in the private sector, and he was part of a team that worked closely with the federal government to maintain the security of the financial system. And although the hours were long, the work was challenging. When Canadians

went to the bank machine, their money was there as safe and secure as ever. And that was something that gave him a lot of pride in his work. And ultimately, he did switch careers and became a public servant to protect Canadians and their money. And he served as a committee member of the Financial Stability Board, an international body that monitors the global financial system. He's also an advisor to the CEO of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, CMHC. And he's also the director of corporate finance at the Ontario Securities Commission. So you're going to learn a lot in this episode about how the financial system in Canada works. So let's get to it. Let's get to that interview with Houston. Welcome, Houston, to the More Money Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you on the show.

Jessica, it's wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me. You're so welcome. You're so welcome. So I'm very excited to have you on the show. Jessica, it's wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me. You're so welcome. You're so welcome. So I'm very excited to have you on the show because I feel like we're going to answer a lot of people's questions that I've been getting year in and year out. And that's really to do with who can we trust in the financial industry? How are things regulated? What are some things that we should know as consumers or clients when we want to hire someone in the financial industry to help us with our money. But before we dive in, because I know we have a lot of great things to talk about, you know, you have a really interesting career. You

started in the private sector, now in the public sector. Do you want to kind of share, you know, what kind of propelled you into your current role, which is the Executive Vice President of Market Conduct at the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario, FISRA? And, you know, what I know in part of your bio that was sent to me, you mentioned that the 2008 recession had a really big impact on you. Do you want to kind of share? Sure. I have had a background where I've worked at other regulators. So I was director of corporate finance at the Ontario Securities Commission, which is of course charged with overseeing capital markets, including all public companies that are headquartered in Ontario. Before that, I spent some time at the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. That's the mortgage insurer that is guaranteed by the government of Canada.

And before that, I was president of the rating agency DBRS, where we assigned credit ratings for corporates, for governments and for structured products. And what I noticed was behind every investment decision, there are large companies, there are big risks to benefit from, and also that can sometimes cause peril. But behind many of those decisions, there are individuals, there are families, there are businesses that rely on financial services. And so that's why many of us at Fisra are here. And what we do is we protect consumers. We help them in terms of some of the biggest decisions in their lives. That's amazing. So I'm curious, though, yeah, what for you personally, like how to propelled you into

this role, what you do? Was there anything that happened to you that you're like, I want to make sure that I'm kind of part of the solution? I think that there is a ongoing dialogue between the private sector and between the official sector to try to make the best of things for Canadians. I saw that in action. And hopefully now, those of us who are at FSRA and at other regulators can do their very best to ensure that consumer needs and interests are adequately met. So let's kind of talk a little bit more specifically about the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario, FISRA. I'm

just going to call it FISRA right now because that's a math rule. What does FISRA specifically do? And you already mentioned that there's a ton of other regulators. I think most Canadians have no idea that these organizations exist, but they all have very different functions. But let's first discuss what does FISRA do exactly? Let's take a step back and let's pretend that there is an ordinary Canadian that is out there trying to protect themselves. And they have a house and they've got a car and their house probably has a mortgage and their car needs insurance because that's required by the law. And they may have an account at a credit union and they may have a workplace that has a pension plan that's

in Ontario. All of those activities have a component where regulation is important. So FISRA oversees insurance companies, credit unions, mortgage brokers, pension plan administrators in the province of Ontario. And what we do is we promote high standards of business conduct. We want to foster a sustainable, competitive financial services sector. We want to respond to market changes quickly. We want to promote good administration of insurance and pension plans, and we want to encourage innovation. And we think that when you put those things together, that we end up with a better informed and better protected consumer. So you said this is just for Ontario.

I'm assuming there's other regulators for other provinces in Canada. So it's not just Ontario's protecting you, but it's the Wild West and the rest of the country. So we work alongside provincial regulators across Canada to ensure that we have harmonized approaches where possible to regulation. So as an example, we often work with the Quebec regulator and the BC regulator and the Alberta regulator when it comes to issues like insurance conduct, because the likelihood is if there's an

issue or concern with insurance in one province, it's probably also applicable in the other provinces. And so when you say, you know, regulation, you know, you're overseeing, you're making sure basically everyone's doing everything above board. But if you do discover an organization or even an individual in the industry who isn't doing something that they should be doing, what are some of the consequences? Like, I think that's one thing that people always wonder. It's like, are these people just getting away with it? Or is there actually any kind of penalization or consequences for these people? We have the authority to, for example,

take away someone's license. We have the authority to levy sanctions and fines or put conditions on a license. And that's really important because without a license, that individual cannot earn a living in that business. For example, if there's someone who is selling a product and it's inappropriate and we receive a complaint and we investigate, we may determine that they've broken the law. And with that evidence, we can actually say that we propose to take away your license. Now, they will have an ability to say that they want to be heard in front of a court. But that said, that proceeding will be public and there will be visibility around what's happening. So you mentioned what happens when someone experiences a loss or when

there's a problem. But one of the things that regulators do is if you take a big step back and you start at the beginning, you say, one would say to oneself, what's the best way to hire a professional or get an agent or get a broker who can help me with my financial situation, how can I do that with confidence? And one way to do that is to look at the information that's available on that individual. And you can do that, for example, at the FISRA website. If you're looking for someone who sells you insurance or someone who is a mortgage broker, you can look up the information that we have on that individual and determine if they're licensed and if they've got any sanctions. Yeah. Well, you know, now that you mentioned licenses and, you know, professional if they don't have this license?

I think a lot of people just kind of assume that, you know, if you work for this firm, and you call yourself like an insurance agent that, you know, I can trust you, and you had to go through some, you through some education, some training to do that, but that's not always the case. So what are some kind of licenses, credentials that people should be aware of to do their due diligence and feel confident about hiring somebody? I'll give you one example that comes up from time to time. There are individuals that are out there and they're selling car insurance. And that sounds like a, okay, that's fine. Everyone needs car insurance. If you've got a car, you want to drive, you go and get car insurance. But we receive complaints about individuals or we find out about people that are selling car insurance and they're not licensed. They don't actually have a valid policy

to sell. And the really unfortunate part is that if these individuals who are buying so-called insurance, if they get into an accident or if they get stopped by the police, they actually don't have valid insurance. And then they're subject to all the financial peril as well as potential issues with the police if you're not validly insured. And I'll go on further. There are a couple of other areas. So for example, in mortgage brokering, right now, it's a pretty complicated time to be a homeowner. Interest rates have really gone up. There are new rules that are in place. There's a stress test that has to apply before you can looking for a broker who is experienced, who can help them make what is for many the largest financial decision of their life, then we'd recommend that they take a look at our website, look up the name of that mortgage agent or broker, and just make sure they don of not only to find out if they're licensed, but do they have, is there anything on their record right now? Because, I mean, I think I've actually done that for a few individuals that I've, you know, heard about, you know, work in the industry, and I looked them up. And there's a couple times that there was actually, you know, you know, some complaints about them. And it's unless you looked it up, it probably wouldn't have appeared because obviously they're trying to do their best to try to hide that information. So it's it's really important. But going back to, you know, there's so many different financial professionals throughout Canada, but, you know, in different kind of segments of the financial industry and lots of different titles. And it gets confusing.

I mean, even with mortgages, you hear the term mortgage specialist, mortgage broker, mortgage agent, and that can be confusing because you're like, I don't know. I just want a mortgage. Who should I hire? And is one better than the other? Is one more trustworthy? Is one more biased or unbiased? It can be overwhelming. Is there anything that you can kind of say when you are looking for a financial professional to better understand all the different titles because they sound the same, but they're not the same. Let's stick with the mortgage example you've brought up because it's just so relevant today. You pick up the newspaper and every day there's an article about housing and mortgages.

And if you look at the various titles that people use. So for example, a mortgage specialist typically works for a financial institution and can help you shop for a mortgage based on what that financial institution has available. A mortgage broker or a mortgage agent often has relationships with multiple mortgage providers. And whereas mortgage specialists are not licensed by FISRA, a mortgage broker or a mortgage agent is. So many people come and tell us that if they wish to have choice and they wish to have someone essentially help them, walk them through the process of getting into a mortgage, who should I borrow from? What term should I choose? Should I go fixed or floating? What is an appropriate, do I need mortgage portability?

All of these questions can be asked of an appropriately qualified mortgage broker or agent, and we license those professionals. And so that is, again, on our website. And I really encourage consumers to take a look at those materials because often we enter into these decisions without necessarily being an expert at getting a mortgage or an expert at buying life insurance. These are complicated products that will be with us a long time. And I would suggest that you really want to have advisors around you who are qualified, licensed, and trained to guide you through that. And I guess the same would be for the insurance industry.

Similarly, there's lots of different titles. And, you know, it's sometimes hard to discern. It's like, okay, there's an insurance agent or broker and then insurance specialist. But I guess it's kind of the same situation where, you know, insurance specialist would be someone who works for a particular financial institution, can only sell you that financial institution's insurance products, whereas a broker can do shopping around because they have, you know, relationships with a lot of different lenders. Exactly. And when it comes to, for example, auto insurance, one thing that we do say is if people are unhappy with their rate, then they should consider, do I need to shop around? Do I need to speak to a broker? Similarly, if you're looking to buy life insurance, it is different life, different companies offer different things. They've got different products. And so a life insurance agent may be able to walk you through that and give you some choices

as to what fits the needs of your family and yourself. Now, I want to talk more about the financial planning side of things, because that's like a discussion I feel like I've been having for a very long time. And there's so much confusion about those titles, because there's a million titles, I swear, they keep on coming out with the new ones. But the biggest one I feel like is financial advisor versus financial planner. And now there's been a recent change. Now, this is just specifically with Ontario, but you know, hopefully, we'll see a lot of changes. And, and I know Quebec currently is the only province that, you know, requires, you can only call yourself a financial planner, if you do have these certain credentials, like being a CFP. But in Ontario, we're kind of moving a little bit more forward, I think, being a little bit more strict

because prior you could anyone could call themselves a financial planner and advisor, which was something always that concerned me. I mean, even to like, you know, in the broader kind of industry, anyone can call themselves a money coach or a financial coach or whatever. And I mean, you don't know if they have any, you know, training or anything like that. But do you want to kind of discuss what are some of these new changes that are occurring to really make it, you know, protect the consumer more so they know who they're working with and what kind of credentials these people actually have? You know, I'm so glad you brought this up because this is a matter that's really important to people.

You are speaking, when you speak to a financial advisor, this is someone that you're going to be, you know, sharing personal information about, whether it's your financial situation and your goals and your income, all of those things. And you're going to want to be able to trust the individual in question. So we have introduced for the first time a regime that requires that anyone using the titles financial planner or financial advisor, all those individuals have to meet certain minimum standards for proficiency, continuing education, and ongoing accountability. And that was as of March of 2022. And there are really two sets of standards. Let's start with financial planners. On the financial planner side, that individual needs to have proficiency not only on the investment side,

but has to know something about taxes, about estate planning, and other items that are going to be really relevant for someone who's setting out a financial plan for themselves and for their family. The financial advisor side doesn't include as much in terms of tax and estate planning and so on, but does have minimum standards for proficiency on investments, on asset allocation, and on things, time horizon for investment. And of course, in both cases, we want to see that whichever credentialing body is assigning those titles, we want to see a code of conduct that requires that those credential

holders put the interests of their client first. And I think that's, I mean, so important. But I think even just like, yeah, really laying out what is the difference between advisor and planner is so helpful because I think often we, you know, are just attuned to doing kind of what our parents do, go to the bank, use an advisor. And often, I mean, what I've been hearing for years and years is just I'm unhappy with my advisor because I don't feel like they're actually providing me with all the things I expect. And really, usually those expectations are supposed to be put on like what a financial planner does. And so I think it's really important for people to understand that. Yeah, if you want someone to really help you with all aspects of

your financial life, a planner probably would be more appropriate than an advisor. An advisor is a little bit more siloed, I would say. So that's, I think, a really important differentiation. I'm really glad you're bringing that up because there's just so much that you can get from these professionals. They are trained to look at different situations and provide advice as to what best meets your needs. So when it comes to an individual, I would just encourage your listeners to take a look and determine what proficiency do these professionals have?

What is their training? Who has provided their credential? Who are they licensed or registered with? And once you find the right individual, provide that information so they can make a good assessment as to what your needs are. And don't be shy, because these individuals need to know about your situation in order to help you meet your goals. Now, we kind of touched on this at the beginning of the episode, but when you are a customer or a client, you're working with a financial professional and you feel like they people work with a professional,

they're unhappy with the service, or they feel like they misunderstood or that something wasn't, you know, it just doesn't seem like this is what I signed up for. And they feel like they're kind of powerless. They don't have a voice. If someone wants to, you know, put in a complaint, like, how would that go about? I think most people have no idea who to even speak to. So as the regulator for insurance agents and mortgage brokers, if there are concerns about conduct for either of those professions, customers are welcome to submit a complaint to FSRA and we will follow up. We will ask for details and if appropriate, we'll open a file and investigate what happened. And we want to advocate for consumers to make sure that they have the best information available. And then we'll come to determination as to whether or not that there has been a breach. But one thing that maybe we forget is we can also protect ourselves. So it's often pretty difficult if someone has run away with your money, it's pretty difficult to sort of chase after them and

get it back. What we need to do is understand when there are red flags. For example, if someone's not licensed, that's a red flag. You know, we have all sorts of notices on our website about so-and-so is not a licensed individual. Do not use them as a mortgage broker. We also, there are also, you know, templates and sample questions that people might want to ask when they're dealing with someone. One interesting poll that FISRA conducted recently showed that almost four in 10 people researched their last vacation longer than their mortgage. And that's so interesting because of course a vacation is way more fun than getting into a long-term

obligation for a large amount of money. But it's really important that people research the individuals that they do business with and look into the products and options that they can, that they have once they've found the appropriate broker or agent. and maybe don't even know how to identify those red flags besides, of course, you know, someone not being licensed. Is there any, you know, kind of behavior or actions that we should be aware of that you're like, that's that actually they shouldn't have done that. You should definitely report that. There are certain types of products where it where the level of interaction may just be, you know, very transactional. So for example, if you go in and you buy a car insurance policy, they're going to want to know what kind of car you drive, you know, what your driving habits are and things like that. And, you know, that's one level. For example, if you go in and get a complicated instrument and you don't understand it, and it's got all sorts of bells and whistles on it, and you have a professional who won't explain it to you, in my view, that's full of red flags.

Anyone who's selling that to you should be able to explain why you have to sign something, what your obligations are going forward, and should be able to answer your questions around that. And if that person is not willing to do that, and not willing to take the time, then I'd say that's a definite red flag. I'm curious what your thoughts are, because I know one of the issues with the overall industry is some people, well, I mean, you know, it's just compensation, basically, you know, some people are compensated by commissions, or, you know, by sales, and they get bonuses, and some people are just maybe they charge a flat fee, they're a fee for, you know, service kind of thing. What are some things that people should be aware? And also, I guess, discussing besides, hey, are you licensed,

but B, how do you get compensated? Because I know there is, you know, as much regulation as there is, there's a lot of biases and kind of conflict of interest in the industry. What as consumers can we do to make sure that we still can have confidence with who we're working with and also identify when this person is being pretty pushy on this product. And that's actually not where I came in. I came in to talk about my debt repayment strategy, not my line of credit or something like that. That's a great question. And I wish people would think about that because there are often, we all have options, right? And we should choose the best option that works for us. And if we're at a shop that doesn't provide any options to us, then that's something to be aware of. So let's take that and translate it into another setting. Let's say that you want to go and buy a

car and you go into the Toyota dealership. Guess what? You know you're buying a Toyota, right? You know that that's the brand that they sell and no one has to tell you that. They don't have to tell you that. You see it on the sign of the door. And when we enter into a complicated financial services transaction, we may or may not realize that some shops may only sell their own branded product. And so there may be an insurance company that only sells its insurance product. And that may work really well for you because you trust that insurance company. An insurance contract is there for life. You know they'll be there for you and you're happy then. That's fine. In the alternative, if let's say you've been turned down for insurance or you're shopping around for the best quote, then you may want to know that the person you're

speaking to is authorized to sell you insurance from multiple insurance companies. That may suit your situation better. So as one example, if that's important to you, I'd really encourage the listeners out there, find out what companies are you allowed to represent when I deal with you as an agent or a broker. Yeah, because I think, yeah, one misconception is that brokers have access to all of these different companies or lenders, but that's not true. I mean, every brokerage has their kind of Rolodex of who they work with, and it may not be all the ones that you're like, oh, actually, I heard from a friend that this lender is actually really good, and they could say that they just don't represent them. So that might be something to keep in mind,

because maybe you want to find a broker who does work with that company. And that would make complete sense. Another example would be on the mortgage side. Again, people are in there for many, many years for what is often the largest debt obligation for their entire life. So it's okay to ask the mortgage agent or broker or specialist, who do you represent? What lenders do you represent? And what choices do I have? That's a very fair question. And it really helps give you the best information for your decision. And it should make you more confident in the decisions you make. One thing about regulation that's interesting is that we seek to create a fair environment for consumers to shop for services. We want to deter bad misconduct. But on top of that, if there is a sector and there is an appropriate amount of regulation and we are deterring bad actors from taking advantage of consumers, consumers benefit from just having greater confidence in all the business and financial transactions they enter into. still in a situation where, you know, as much as it's great to have these, you know, organizations

like Visra that are, you know, kind of overseeing and making sure, yeah, there's no bad actors or deterring bad actors. Ultimately, I mean, kind of like everything in life, we have to be our own advocates, we have to do our own due diligence, we have to educate ourselves so we can identify those red flags or that misinformation or just feel like, you know, one thing I hear often from people is they go in and sit down with their advisor and they have no idea what they're talking about. And unfortunately, most of these advisors will not take the time to explain everything. I mean, they should, but most of them have, you know, they have another client or they are pressured to sell you this portfolio or what have you. And so the best thing that you know, you can do and this

is I mean, what I talked about nonstop on the podcast is arm yourself with information that is the best way to protect yourself. And like you've kind of mentioned, you've got some great resources on the FISRA website, you want to kind of share what are some things that people can look out for if they do want to go to the website, some resources that might be able to kind of give them more confidence and know what to look out for? We have sections on our website that are for consumers and they're by sector. So we are, I think that we certainly have information, let's say you're looking for a mortgage or you're looking to buy insurance. There are specific sections just for consumers for each of those sectors. And so we encourage people to go take a look at those. And just remembering one thing you said earlier on,

which is about planners, financial planners. If people are concerned about having potentially less than independent recommendations, there is an option to go and hire a fee-only financial planner, someone who actually doesn't sell any particular investments, but can just recommend what it is that you look to, and then you make a decision afterwards. Of course, not everyone loves having that additional expense, but it is an option. And for many other people who don't wish to get a fee-only planner, there should be financial advisors and financial planners out there that will be willing to answer your questions about, you know, is this right for me? Explain why this is right for me, given my situation. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and really discussing, I think, a really important thing in personal finance, which isn't discussed nearly enough, which is the financial industry, how it works and our kind of role in it as consumers and how to protect ourselves so we can continue to hopefully have some trust and confidence in the industry so it doesn't all collapse. And then also how to, you know, make sure that we're getting what we need. And if we're not, then there's definitely a way to voice our concerns. And hopefully, you know,

if there are any bad apples out there, then, you know, get them out of the industry because it's not it's, you know, not helping anybody. So is there anything else you'd like to share that you want listeners to know before I let you go? Well, again, we encourage listeners to go take a look at the website. Make sure that the professionals you deal with are licensed appropriately and don't be afraid to ask questions.

This is all about you as a consumer, as an investor, and you want to make sure that they're taking care of your interests. Jessica, it's my pleasure to be here and thanks so much for having me. Thank you for coming on the website fsrao.ca. You can also follow them on Twitter at fsra underscore news. And of course, they are also online on LinkedIn, Facebook, and TikTok. TikTok, y'all. TikTok. Good for them. Good for them. So I will include all of these links, also some of the resources. There's a few news releases that I think are important that you should be aware of about the mortgage industry and investment advisors and things like that. So I'm going to include

those in the show notes for this episode. Just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 361. And again, if you ever got lost, just go to Jessica morehouse.com slash podcast. Or if you really can't find it, I had this happen just a few weeks ago. You can email me if you're like, Hey, you did this episode with this person. I can't remember their name, but it was on this topic. I'm telling you, I'll tell you. I mean, I don't want a bunch of those emails. But if you really can't find it, shoot me over. I'll probably know the episode number. Now as for next week, I've got a repeat guest coming back on the show. I've got Alison Bakerley on the show next week. You may remember her from a few years ago. She was on episode 291 to talk about how budgeting is a form of self-care

that was back in July 2021, y'all. My gosh, where's the time go? And she is back because she has a book. She has a book called Money Made Easy. And I loved having her on the show. She's such a positive, positive person just makes you feel good. And I'm so excited that she has a book now. And so she's come on the show to talk about her book and some of the amazing advice and stories that are in there. So you're not gonna want to miss it, y'all not gonna want to miss it. y'all. Not gonna want to miss it. I'm not sure why I'm saying y'all. I just like it. I wish I could like, I don't know if I can get away with it because I'm not. I'm in Toronto. No one says y'all. But it's just such a

nice thing to say. It's just fun. It's just nice. And sometimes it's a great way to end a sentence. I may or may not continue using it. but just thought I'd put that out there. But with that, since Allison does have a book coming out, just a reminder, I do have my book giveaway, in case you don't know. JessicaMorehouse.com slash contest is where you can find some of the books I'm currently giving away. I will be giving away her book and putting that up there next week. So take a look at that. Also, if you're relatively new to the show, or you just need a reminder, because you know, some of what we'll be talking about next week is budgeting. I do have a bunch of budget spreadsheets on my website available. I worked

really hard on them. They've been honestly years in the development. And they're amazing. I use it myself for my own personal finances. So that's why I know they're great, but also the feedback and the reviews. But you can check it out at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. There is a budget spreadsheet for any financial situation that exists. I promise you. If, you know, both of you and your partner are self-employed, got a spreadsheet for that. If both of you, you know, are employees, got a spreadsheet for that.

If one of you has a side hustle and one of you is an employee, got got a spreadsheet for that. There's nothing I didn't cover. So make sure to check it out, jessicamoorehouse.com slash shop. And also, if you want to learn more about investing, just a reminder, I do have my Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course. You can find all the information about that at jessicamoorehouse.com slash course. Read through it. See if it's the right fit for you. It is focused on the foundations of investing, all the things that you should know as an investor. And then we go deep into passive investing and how to invest in a passive way. So make sure to check it out, jessicamorehouse.com slash course. You can see if it's right for you. Apply if you're approved to get on a call with me, a real live call with me to see if it, again, is the right fit for you.

Because, yeah, it may seem like an arduous process having to apply and then have a call with me. But guess what? It's worked for the past two years. All the students in the course love the course because it is the right fit for them. And it's a great way to ask me any questions before you enter and just feel good about enrolling. And then once you're in, you get lifetime access, you get to be part of this great community. I host a monthly Q&A session over Zoom. There's so much packed into the course. So much, so, so much. So it's a great course in my view. So JessicaBornhouse.com slash course where you can find all that information. And yeah, without further ado, you know, thanks so much to everyone for listening and supporting this podcast. I really, really appreciate it. Shout out to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. And I will see you next week. Have a stellar rest of your week. See you back here next Wednesday.