More Money Podcast - 372 So This Is Why You're Broke - Melissa Jean-Baptiste, Author of So This Is Why I'm Broke and Founder of Millennial in Debt

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

It's the penultimate episode of Season 16 and today I'm joined by a millennial making waves with her personal finance content on Instagram and Tiktok — Melissa Jean-Baptiste aka Millenial in Debt. Melissa is a former high school teacher turned financial educator and career coach who helps millennials and Gen Z build generational wealth and gain financial freedom in a shame-free digital environment. She's also a new author recently releasing her first book, So This Is Why I'm Broke, and I couldn't wait to chat with her all about it in today's episode. In this episode, Melissa shares her debt journey and why she thinks it's important to add yourself into your budget, in other words, don't forget to have fun and live a little! She also shares what she'd do differently looking back at her twenties and what the reality of going viral online was like (FYI, it's not all fire and high-five emojis). This episode is for all the people who think they're running out of time because they've hit their 30s. As someone who recently turned 37, let me tell you, don't worry, you still have plenty of time to achieve your goals and change your financial life! For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/372 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and this is episode 372 and the second to last episode of season 16 of the show. Sad. Are we sad? No, honestly. I mean, maybe that sounds bad. No, I'm sad that it's ending. Sure. I mean, this has been a really great season, I believe. I mean, I always think each season gets better and better, but honestly, and maybe you're like me too, I just, this has been a really great season, I believe. I mean, I always think each season gets better and better. But honestly, and maybe you're like me too, I just, you know, it's summertime, guys. The weather is nice. I want to go outside and try to go to a coffee shop and write my book or read a book or just need a little bit of a break to, you know, recuperate. So I'm more energized to get into season 17, which will launch sometime in September. But enough about what's going to happen in season 17 and what I'm going to be up to in the summer, which honestly isn't anything crazy. I'm just going to be staying in my cold basement in the dark, writing my book and then

visiting family over July and enjoying some Vancouver nature. And I just want to do all the things this year. I want to go kayaking. I might even want to go hiking, which is crazy because I hate hiking. And of course, I want to do one of my favorite things whenever I'm in town and go to the Port Moody breweries because what's not like how fun is it that there's all these breweries right next to each other and you could just brewery hop how fun so fun anyways again enough about me let's talk about this episode let's talk about the wonderful guest I have on this episode which is Melissa Jean-Baptiste you may actually already know her under a different name Millennial in

Debt she's really big on the Instagram and TikTok and she has a brand new book or her first book really out. And it is called So This Is Why I'm Broke, Money Lessons on Financial Literacy, Passive Income and Generational Wealth, which I'm so, so thrilled that is out. It's a great book, awesome cover. And believe me, I say this because, listen, I have a lot of the books. I have all the books that have been featured on this show. And, you know, sometimes the covers are lacking. It's not the author's fault. As I know, you do not get a final say. It is the publisher.

They do their thing. But, yeah, Melissa, knocked it out of the park. It's a very cool, it's just a cool cover. But it's also a really good book inside. So, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, but also it's a great cover as well. So we are going to chat about just her experience being in debt, of course, and trying to pay it down on a teacher's salary, which is obviously very difficult because teachers are not paid nearly enough for all the amazing work that they do.

And then we also talk about how she was able to transition from being a high school teacher to then being, you know, a very popular personal finance content creator, and also making sure that the content she creates is valuable is actually educational, unlike a lot of the stuff that you will find online. She's trying I mean, it makes sense. She comes from the background of being a teacher. She wants to make sure she's doing a good job and she does an incredible job. So we are gonna talk about all the things in this episode.

So without further ado, let's get to that interview with Melissa. Welcome, Melissa, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to chat today. I love your background you for having me. I'm so excited to chat today. I love your background, by the way. No one can see this, obviously, but that's beautiful.

It's like a forest greenery situation. I love that. Thank you. It's all fake. I really can't keep things alive. I didn't expect it to be like a live wall of flowers, but hey, that looks amazing. I love that. Thank you.

And I'm super excited to have you on the show. I know you've I mean, you've been a very big presence online for a number of years. But now you have a book, which I think is the best title. I think it's hilarious. So this is why I'm broke. Money Lessons on Financial Literacy, Passive Income and Generational Wealth. So excited for you. So let's kind of let's let's start let's kind of back up for anyone who is new to you. You know, I know part of your story is you started as a teacher, you had some, of course, student loan debt, and you were able to tackle like $100,000 worth of debt on teacher salary. And that in and of itself is a huge accomplishment because we all

know teachers are not paid enough for all of the hard work that they do. So do you want to kind of share a little bit what kind of thrust you into, you know, being a teacher and then kind of entering this personal finance world? Yes. So I am a first generation Haitian American. I'm also the eldest of three, which means I kind of had to do everything first. And my siblings would, you know, be like, would she do well? What did she not do so well? So I really kind of set the curve in learning all of these things. And so I was the first person to go to college. And I was like, OK, I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to do.

I got an English degree. I'm like, what am I supposed to do with an English degree? I like to write. It's like, maybe I'll be a teacher. That feels like the right way to go. And so I was teaching for the first three years after I graduated in 2010. And in 2013, I was turning 25 and it felt like, I think I should buy a house, right? That's the next step in being an adult, like buy a house. At that time, I didn't even have a savings account. So I look back at that. I'm like,

you are so delusional, girl. What were you thinking? Just naive, you know, precious 25-year-old. We were all like, I'm going to do this. You're like, you have no idea how the world works. Not at all. Definitely didn't know how real estate worked. And so I reached out to a real estate agent and he was just like, okay, so we were going through the pre-approval and I get approved for $100,000, which I live in New York. That can buy you maybe a Barbie dollhouse and you're not going to get much with $100,000. And so I was really upset. And when we started talking about, you know, why wasn't I approved for more? He introduced the concept of a debt to income ratio, which I had never heard of before. And I'm like, well, I pay all my bills on time. I have pretty decent credit. I've never missed a payment. And he's just like, well, you have a lot of debt and you don't make,

you know, enough money. You're a liability to the bank, essentially. And so he's like, the best thing for you to do is to call your loan provider and, you know, see if you can pay down, accelerate that debt to be approved for a higher amount. And so I call my loan provider. And to my surprise, although I only borrowed $50,000 at that current time, I had about $80,000 in debt. It inflated from 50 to 80. And how many years? Three years. Three years. And I was just like, what am I doing wrong? What's going on? And essentially what the loan provider told me was that I was on an interest-only payment plan. And so I was paying about $200 a month, but they were adding in $400 in interest every month. So my payment wasn't covering the amount that I borrowed.

It wasn't even covering the interest that was being added. And I was up $20,000 by the time I even realized that I was not making a dent in this debt like I thought I was. I was not making a dent in this debt like I thought I was. I was truly devastated. And that's what really started my personal finance journey because I wanted to buy a home. I wanted to move out of my parents' house. I didn't want to have this debt for the next 30 or 40 years. And so that's really what opened my eyes to what money could be used for, what I could do with money. And it wasn't just like you get paid, you your bills, and that's it. It's an actual tool to build wealth and a tool to change the trajectory of your life. And so that was the moment where I was just like, oh, I have to do something different.

Yeah. And so I hear from a lot of people who have similar backgrounds to you, or just anyone who's like, oh, there's a moment where they're like, I need to get my act together. That's one very important realization. But then the next is like, what is your next step? So for you, what did that mean? Was it like, okay, we're going to just focus on debt? Or, you know, where did you start? So at that time, I really didn't know too much about money. Like I said, I didn't even have a savings account. So it was really going in and teaching myself the basics and learning, okay, well, if I want to pay off

this debt in two years, in three years, what are the things I'm going to have to do? What am I going to have to learn? What am I going to have to understand? And that's when I learned about sinking funds. That was one of the first things that popped up when it was like, oh, how do you pay off debt quickly? How do you save money? And I was like, what is this? What is a sinking fund? I don't know what that means. But essentially, it's a savings account that you are using to pay off something specific, right? So you're not creating new forms of debt. You have this chunk of money that you're adding to monthly, daily, weekly, whatever pace you want to set. And then when the time comes to, you know, spend or buy that thing, you use that sinking fund. And so what I did was I created an annual sinking fund to tackle one loan at a time because I was just overwhelmed. I'm like, I cannot pay off $80,000. I don't know how much more money is going to be added by the time I'm done, but I need to take this piece by piece, step by step. And so I, on every January, it was my like new year's moment. Every January,

I would say, okay, I'm going to tackle this loan this year. And let's say it was $12,000 for the year. So I need to save $12,000 in December to pay off that debt. And so on a teacher's salary, it's definitely a little hard, but I started doing side hustles and starting to try to incorporate passive income into my day-to-day. And that really helped to fund the sinking fund to pay off the debt. So tell me a little bit more about, I guess, the side hustles, the passive income. We hear those terms a lot. And it's funny because it's like now it's normal to have a second or third job. So what did that look like? Because also, I assume being a teacher, yes, you're stuck with that salary, but that's a full-time job. How were you able

to incorporate other kind of streams of income? Yeah. So in my, 25 was such a big, big year, right? For everyone at 25, I was like, I can do everything. I can do anything. I don't care. I don't need to sleep. I don't need to eat. I don't need time for myself. Those were the days when we had that kind of energy. Yeah. And it's, I don't know what I was thinking, but I was like, I'm going to tutor. I'm going to walk dogs. I'm going to do all these things. And honestly, after about like a month and a half, I'm like, I don't want to do any of these things. I understand they're bringing in money, but the return on interest just wasn't doing it for me. And so I really had to sit down and understand what are my skills? What am I already doing? What is going to have a better ROI? And that's when I started actually selling

my lesson plans and unit plans. I'm like, I'm already a teacher. I'm already creating them. I already know how to plan for a year or for a month. And so I started selling those and I made about $10,000 annually, which helped tremendously in funding the sinking funds every year. That is so smart. I mean, yeah, you hear a lot about and you see all these blog posts like 50 ideas for, you know, side hustles. But sometimes it's about what am I already doing so I don't have to do more work? And then would people actually want this lesson plans? Of course, you're saving those teachers money or time. So then they can maybe free up their time to maybe do another side hustle to make more money, right? Yeah, exactly. That's amazing. So you were able to continue to do that consistently for a good few years. How long did it actually take you to when you started to paying off all of your student loans? Yeah. So it took me five years. I started focusing in 2013 and I made my final student loan payment in December of 2018. Nice. So I don't want anyone to think because a lot of times on the internet, right? It's like, I did this in eight months. And you're like, how? How though? It's impossible.

Yeah, that's not me. Yeah. I like hearing the realistic stories of it took me five years. Because when you even think about it, you're like five years isn't too long. When you're paying off debt, it feels like forever. Yes, it definitely does. Especially if you want to like do other things or go on vacation, you're just like, I got to get this done. I got to get this done. So paid off, paid it off in five years. I'm curious when you were finally able to make that final payment, what was your thought process? What are you going to do now? I hear from so many people who are in that like debt repayment mode for years and years and years. It's difficult to know what to do after because

your mind has just been on that one goal. And often some people that don't make another goal or don't, you know, kind of think of the next plan, they can get back into debt. I mean, usually with like consumer debt, not so much student loans, but, you know, so for you, what did you want to accomplish next? Was it like, hey, we're going to kind of use the same strategy so we can save up to buy a home? So I actually, which is pretty crazy. Everyone's like, you're not in debt anymore. I actually did buy my first home. I closed in January of 2019. So I was only debt free for like 30 days. But it is a different type of debt. And there is something about knowing like, oh, I know how to tackle this now. And I know how to do it is a different type of debt. And there is something about knowing like, oh, I know how to tackle this now.

And I know how to do it in a better way that's not going to make me feel ashamed or embarrassed. Because while I was paying off my student loans, I kind of felt like, well, I got myself in this situation. And I don't want to talk to people about it because I'm scared or I feel embarrassed. So definitely, I was like, okay, well, I'm going to buy the house. This is what I'm going to do. I know it's a new type of debt. it also taught me how to manage better and so I was able to really start investing more and that was something I wanted to do for so long and really try to invest not just like 401k which is super important but also the IRAs and all of these other things

like I want to learn how to grow my money and build that generational wealth outside of just saving and my employee sponsored plan. So that was my thing. I bought a home and I really started investing more of my money. Amazing. I know there's also one part in your book, which I can definitely relate to, which is so interesting. You mentioned that you were able to pay off your debt and then it got picked up by a big media publication, and it kind of went viral, which is, you know, the dream. Very exciting. But then there's also the reality of it. And again, I think that's really important to talk about. Very exciting that you got more eyeballs on your story, but A, they didn't include your real salary. They kind of misquoted that. And then you read the comments and the comments were kind of crazy. How were you able to, well, I guess, you know, because it's a celebratory moment for you to be like, I'm debt free, but then to kind of hear, you know, the critics or people with their opinions, how did that, how did you, I guess, deal with that? Because I think that's the other thing, whether you're a public figure or not, there's always critics out there, especially if you're working towards a goal or you've just

finished a goal. People are like, yeah, but you didn't do it this way. So it doesn't count. Yes. And it's so interesting because I've never hid my money story. I've always been very open and candid about it because I think it's important to talk about money and share different experiences. And so when that moment happened, I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting. And the confusion and the misinterpretation really, it brought back those feelings of shame. And I think a lot of times that's what keeps people from talking about money, which is such an important conversation. But I felt embarrassed. I was like, oh my God, well, I guess I didn't do it the way that they thought you should have been done. But I was like, I still did it. It's still something phenomenal and amazing. And so I think

I really forced myself to stop reading the comments. So for anyone listening, don't read the comments. Just don't, you know, enjoy the time with your friends and family because the comments will always just have something to say. And I think when it got re-released because it was like the initial release and then it got re-released, because it was like the initial release, and then it got re-released again a couple months ago, I was like, I'm not going to allow negative thoughts and things that people have to say really take away from all the good that my story has done and all the benefits and how it's helped other people to really get a hold of their money. So I think it's really important to kind of just keep, keep those comments as far away from you as possible. And just really know that you're doing the best you can and you're doing what works for you and you're helping other people really find their, their step in what works for them. Did you kind of experience any of that while you were paying off debt? Like I hear from a lot of people when they start, you know, getting into personal finance and wanting to, you know to be more frugal and save and

pay off debt and invest, sometimes there's kind of a disconnect with their current friends or family that just don't get it. How do you stay motivated or in it when it seems like your entire world, they don't understand what you're doing? It can be hard to motivate yourself when you don't feel like you're supported. Absolutely. And I think at the beginning of my personal finance journey, I felt that way. I felt alienated. And again, like the shame and just the fear of people judging. But I think it's really, really important. And you can

find that in so many different ways to find a community of support, even if it's not a friend or family. The internet has gotten really interesting with personal finance. And I really think that it's grown tremendously from where it started when I was 25 years old. So I think it's so important to find that community who, even if they're not going through the same exact steps, they understand what you're going through or they understand what you're doing. And when you share, they're willing to listen and ask questions and not kind of say, oh,

well, why are you always talking about penny pinching? Because that did happen when I was paying off the first year student loans. I was like, oh, I can't go to brunch. I can't do this. And they're like, you're so obsessed with your debt. And it's just like, yeah, but it's kind of a really big thing for me right now. So it's so important to find your community, find your people so that you can share without feeling that you're being judged.

Yeah. What I've found over the years, and this is talking to a bunch of people, is no one will understand your financial situation more than you. And so they only see kind of your behaviors, your actions, and it may just not make sense to them. But I think the other thing is, if you do feel like there is a safe space, or some people are, you know, receptive, that could, you know, you could help someone else by sharing because they may have never encountered someone who was open about talking about money and that might be their introduction. So don't be afraid, but then also be aware if you recognize someone's not into it, then just limit what you share because they may just be a negative. They may demotivate you and we don't want that. You want to stay on track. Yeah. So I love at the beginning of your book, you talk about how you wanted to write this book so people wouldn't make some of your mistakes or they wouldn't have to because you achieved a lot of amazing things over the years. And you said, you know, but I don't I don't wish this on anybody. Do you want to kind of share a little

bit more about what you meant by that? Like, was it just you worked so hard, long hours, paying off debt? It was very intense. You don't you want people to have an easier time, but achieve still being able to achieve their goals? whereas paying off debt, it was very intense. You want people to have an easier time, but still being able to achieve their goals. Yes. I specifically said, I don't want you to do what I did, or I don't want you to have the success I have. I want you to be better. I want you to be 100 times better. And I say that especially for my two younger brothers. I know they're like, we're not babies, but they're babies. My two younger brothers, I don't want them to take the huge student loans. I don't

want them to have to side hustle for hours and hours on end. I want them to, of course, learn how to grow their money and build their wealth, but I want them to have an easier path to do so. And I feel like my journey was filled with a lot of gaps that I didn't understand things. I didn't know things. I talk about how I sold my Netflix stock, the first Netflix stock that I ever bought to buy a couch, right? Because I didn't understand the idea of long-term investing and what that really meant and what that looked like. So I don't want, you know, people to stumble into things by accident. I want them to know mindfully like, oh, I'm going to take these steps and I'm going to get this end

goal, but I don't have to do all these like little mistakes and errors because I now know I have someone who's taught me or helped guide me through the pitfalls that they went through. So don't be like me, be better. Just be a hundred times better. I love that. So with all the things that you experienced, and I know lots of this is incorporated in your book, what are some of the things that you want people to avoid doing or just like mistakes that you made that you just don't want anyone else to fall into? Yes, a really big one. And I was ashamed and embarrassed in the beginning, but now I'm just like, it's funny. A really big one when it comes to investing.

A lot of times people are like, I want the big wins really quick. I want to be a millionaire tomorrow. And I think it's so important to understand that sometimes it's a bit of a slow burn when you're building the foundation and it will come, but you want to do the research and you don't want to just go into any fad or just like, oh, I see that, you know, this company is doing amazing. I'm going to buy $10,000 of stock in their company. And it's just like, wait, you know, let's think about that. And so I share a little in the book how when I first started investing, I would invest in any company that I liked. I'm like, oh, I like this company. I like this company.

And I remember one time I bought a stock and I was like, okay, this company is going to do great. And then a direct competitor came out with a really transformative product and kind of tanked the other company. And I lost so much money. And I was just like, oh, so this isn't a, I don't, I won't be rich quickly is what you're saying. So I think it's really important for people to understand, especially if you're starting your money journey or starting to

look into investing, it doesn't have to be quick hits or putting in a bunch of money at all at one time. I started with $121 per check going into a 403b, which is like the equivalent of a 401k retirement plan for teachers. And I'm like, that's grown to a six-figure portfolio over the last 13 years. So it's okay to take some time. It's okay to research and learn and build slowly so you don't have to face the consequences of losing all your money because a brand no longer exists. Mm-hmm. I think, and I'm curious too, since you have such a big presence online, consequences of losing all your money because a brand no longer exists. I think, and I'm curious too, since you have such a big presence online, especially like your TikTok, your Instagram, I feel like a lot of those narratives are perpetuated online. And that's, it's complicated. Like it's a complicated situation because it's like, there's a lot

of great people like yourself online giving some really quality content. And there's probably 10 times more people just telling you buy this stock and you'll get rich tomorrow, 10x, etc, etc. How do you navigate that? Honestly, it breaks my heart whenever I talk to a young person. They're like, well, I saw this online, da, da, da. And I'm like, oh, my God no, like, don't, don't do that. Don't do that. But if that's all they see, they may think that that is valuable information they should take advantage. I agree. I will say it is definitely harder to compete. Oh yeah. Compete with the flashy or the really cool and sexy, like, you know, investment of the day or investment of the week. And you have me over here like invest in your 401k, you know, investment of the day or investment of the week. And you have me over

here like, invest in your 401k, you know, put money aside for 30 years. But that's really why I take my content so seriously in a way that I want it to be accessible. I want it to be fun. I want it to be eye-catching, not because it's like, oh, you like dancing on the internet. Like, I guess so. But honestly, as a former teacher, I know exactly what students are going to stop scrolling and pay attention to. And I know what they're going to ask questions about. So when I create that content, I keep it, you know, I keep Gen Z in mind. I keep younger millennials. I know millennials are getting a little older. That's okay. I keep younger millennials in mind. And I know I'm like, because I think about, well, what's going to make me stop scrolling, right? Because if I see someone say, you can make $10,000 in five minutes.

You're like, well, I want to know how to do that. Yeah, I want to know. You know, I'll be curious. But it's like, well, no, right? We're going to practice discernment. There's no way you can do that. I'm telling you right now. Exactly.

It's not possible. Exactly. We're going to practice discernment. So when I use like the trending sounds or when I present money information, you know, with like a fancy, I don't even know, like whatever's trending. It's because I want it to stop you in your tracks, but also I want the information to be valuable and useful and realistic for you to set up. You know, I love hearing 16, 17, 18 year olds talking about they opened up an IRA. I'm like, yes, yes, exactly what I want to hear. So it's competitive in the internet space, but it's very important to spread that realistic nature of what money is and what money can do.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the reason that it's a bit different than prior decades where there was always that snake old salesman who's selling you, you know, something's bad. It's different because A, it's all over the place. And I think the one thing that I realized is younger people doing this. And so if you find yourself, you know, scrolling and there's a peer that's telling you this, you're more likely to kind of trust them as opposed to someone who's like 20 years older wearing like a sleazy suit or something like that. Now it's like, I don't know, this guy seems pretty nice. I think he might be legitimate. Exactly. And it's so, it's very tricky. And that's why in the book, I definitely mentioned, you're like, okay, these are the things that are interesting that you can invest in. But I'm like, I'm not your financial advisor, right? So I can't

tell you invest in this. So if you do want someone to do that, seek a professional. I'm like, you don't need to listen to anybody on the internet, but go to speak to a professional who's not trying to sell you something or who's not trying to put your money at risk. I'm very risk adverse. So I like for my investments to be as safe as possible, right? Because there's always some risk, but I don't want to lose $10,000 in five minutes. That's for sure. No. Yeah, exactly. Talking about like make $10,000. How about losing $10,000 in five minutes? That is more likely to happen if you take some of these people online uh and the thing too is like there's no consequences for people online saying whatever they want there's nothing so you got to be careful like it really is consumer beware because you won't be able like they can close their account and you'll never be able to find

them again so just be careful that's for sure. I just I feel like this is a topic I just bring up so often because it's just it's never ending. And I feel like it exploded in 2020. And we just need to be so much more careful. But with that, you really do go and appreciate this. You go through every single possible thing that I could even think of going through your book of what people should know when it comes to their money and things that like I just had a conversation with someone of you know, we talked about estate planning in your book. And that's something that you know, I tried to talk about on the podcast. It's not sexy or exciting. I get it. So important though, right? You keep on you know, seeing all these celebrities die with no will and you're like,

gosh, that's going to be a big mess. Do you want to kind of talk about why, you know, certain things like that, where you got to kind of fit them through the more exciting stuff are so vital. Like I just had a conversation with someone being like, oh, I asked him, like, do you have a will? They're like, no, won't it just automatically come to me if my partner dies? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. You need to have a will. Yes. I agree. Some of these conversations, because I have them with my friends at like brunch, right? And I'm just like, Melissa, again, I'm like, yes, because I have them with my friends at brunch, right? And I'm just like, Melissa, again, I'm like, yes, we have to. You have kids. You have a husband. You have a partner. I'll stop talking once you get a will.

Right. Exactly. And so even with my parents, it's always like a little tug of war. But it's so important because you want to prepare, right? And so finance is not just, oh, I have $10 in my checking account. There are so many aspects that go into our financial landscape, right? We want to think. I'm like, think about your money as a landscape. It's not just one thing. It's not one savings account. And we don't think about all the different things that we have in our financial landscape. And so I speak about how one of my friends who passed away, he used to always say, whenever we had the conversation, he's like, I don't have anything. What am I going to leave behind? And he was so young. And then I remember his mother and his sister saying, oh, well, we

don't know how to get access to his checking or savings account, or we don't know how to do this, and we don't know how to do that. And it's just like, it's unfortunate because in times of tragedy or in times where life is just really being unfair and unkind in the moment, you don't want to have to think about, oh man, how am I going to, you know, gain access to this or what's going to happen to this? You want to have a plan. And that's all estate planning is. It's not, you don't have to be wealthy to do it. You don't have to have a million dollars in your account to do it. It's just a plan to prepare for your loved ones, right? And I always put it this way. It's like you're leaving this plan behind for the people you love the most to make, you know, you no longer being here a lot easier

for them. And so not sexy, but such a vital conversation. And I think the more we talk about it, the more people will, you know, be open to having the conversation. Because when I was younger, I didn't want to talk about it with my parents either. I'm just like, I want to talk about that. My dad's like, we have to. Yeah. Like we have to do it. So it's just a plan. That's how we want to think about it. Absolutely. And yeah, I feel like overall, your book is really talking about things in a way. It's like, here's how you can help yourself and also others.

And that's how I kind of think about finance, too. It's like, how can we make life easier? Because life is so freaking hard, right? And so estate planning is one thing. You do talk a lot about debt and credit. Do you want to kind of talk a little bit about what are some key things? I mean, there's so much that you learned on your journey. What can you share for other people who are right in the thick of it and are feeling that debt fatigue or just having a rough time? Yes. I think a lot of times, especially when we're like, okay, I have this huge mountain

of debt to pay off that we think that we are stuck in doing it. This one way is the only way or having to get it done in five years or three years or whatever. But the thing is your life changes all the time. So your, your debt payoff plan can change. Your budget can change. It does not have to look the same every day. It doesn't have to look the same every month.

And so I think that's what I struggled with in the beginning because I started following the 50-30-20 budget. And I was just like, okay, this works for me. I like it. And then as I started paying off more debt and started having more money for savings, or I wanted to start investing, I'm like, this budget doesn't work for me, but it worked before. I don't know why I can't do it. And I got frustrated and I'm like, all right, I don't want to budget anymore. Right? And so that's the thing. Like, all right, I don't want to pay off my debt anymore. I don't want to focus on this because we're frustrated. We're hitting a wall. But the thing is we don't wear the same clothes every day. Right. We don't eat the same thing every day. We don't go to the same places every day. So our finances can also change and shift and look

different. And so if you're on this debt payoff journey and you've been, you know, following this path and you're like, okay, this is not really working for me, or I'm not going to get to this in five years, or I'm not going to get to this in three years. It's okay to adjust. We, you're not trying to compete or keep up with anybody online. It's really, and it's, it's Instagram really makes us think like debt payoff. It's like, oh my God, I paid this off and now I bought this like car, this mansion, or it's amazing. Sometimes it's like, okay, this, I thought it was going to take two years. It took me three years. I got there. It's still amazing. I'm going to go out for a amazing. Sometimes it's like, okay, I thought it was gonna take two years. It took me three years. I got there.

It's still amazing. I'm gonna go out for a pizza. Like it can look like that, right? And so I think a lot of times we focus on punishing ourselves if we don't hit those goals or if we don't do it this certain way. And we don't need to.

Our personal journey, our personal finance journey is our own. And life is going to remind us that we can't always plan for every single thing. So if you need to adjust your timeline or if you need to adjust how much money you can put towards your debt this month versus what you put in last month versus what you want to put in in two months, that is okay. You want to give yourself grace. And I wish I had known that at 25. I'd have been a lot gentler on myself. And I just want anyone listening now to know that it is okay to

make adjustments to your debt payoff journey. 100%. I mean, that's often what I hear from people who I've interviewed and they've achieved like, you know, I paid off all my debt or I reached this net worth or, you know, retired early and they hit those milestones by a very early age or a short period of time, most of them regret it. Most of them regret not taking more time or not spending, you know, just like enjoying life a little bit more. And it's like, yeah, who can be on like this really strict diet for your finances for that amount of time? Like that actually isn't healthy. That could, I know lots of people, you know, they have issues with their mental health after because they've neglected it for so long because they're focused on this. So like you said, it's so important to remember that it is your personal finance journey and you're the only one competing with yourself. You don't have to look at, you know, it doesn't make

any sense for you to base or use someone else's benchmark for your life, right? Because you have no idea what's going on and you don't know if they're happy or not. Correct. And I think about like some of the early, early, early finance information that I was ingesting or that I was like repeating myself. And I'm just like, there is no way I was operating from such a place of scarcity. I was like, I'm not going to get my nails done. I'm not going to Starbucks. I'm not going to brunch. I'm not. And then, so when I look back at when I was 25, 26, 27, I'm like, all I had was this debt payoff, right? Because I wasn't going to friends' birthday parties and I wasn't, you know, enjoying life with the people I love. And so I think it's

so important to put yourself in your budget, even if you're on your debt payoff journey, even if it's only $100, $50, you need to spend some of your money on you and on things you enjoy and value. Because when you look back in 10 years, it's like, yeah, I paid off this debt. And okay. Yeah. Now what? Yeah. Now you have some other things you need to work through. Like, wow. I don't know. Like I know lots of people who, and I used to be like this and I still work through it too. When you are living in that place of scarcity and you're just getting used to saying no, no, no. Cause that was the advice. It's like, say no to shopping and lattes and avocados, et cetera, et cetera. When you're in a place of now you're able to afford saying yes, you know, it's not a switch that you can flick and it's easy to say yes, you're going to feel that guilt and that shame

for a long time. And so if you can, like, that would be one thing that I wish I would have done and gave myself grace, just like yourself, is telling myself it's okay to go out this one night and spend some money, even if it means you're going to bump the date to hit that milestone by a month. You like the grand scheme of things, years go by, you're not even going to worry about it. So don't just isolate yourself from the world to achieve this goal. When you can have both, you can achieve your goal, maybe it'll take you a little bit longer, but then you can actually enjoy your life and not just be on the strict diet that will, you know, there will be consequences later on. Absolutely. I 100% agree. My therapist says all the time, because I'm like, oh, I don't want to. The first, I remember the first moment or big thing that outside of buying

my home after I paid off my debt, my friend, one of my best friends was getting married and she asked me to be a bridesmaid. And I really went into my therapy session. I was just like, I don't know if I can afford, like I was just thinking about money and not thinking about like, hello, one of your best friends is getting married. Like, what are you thinking? So it's definitely not a switch. It takes a lot of work and you just really want to make sure that you're always incorporating yourself and your finances. Absolutely. Now I know there's, I mean, there's so many great things in your book. So I encourage everyone to grab a copy. But before I let you go, is there anything that you would like to leave listeners with some, you know, food for thought or just, you know, especially to you're

now in this new position, being a financial educator, what are some things that you'd like to leave people with? I always, always, always, always, whenever I speak with a client on the internet, I always want people to remember that your personal finance journey is yours and it does not have to look like anybody else's. It doesn't have to look like mine. It doesn't have to look like your favorite influencer on the internet. And it is okay to unplug. It is okay to pause.

It is okay to stop and think, right? Like, okay, is this no longer what I value with my finances or is this something new that I value with my finances? So it is all right to make your own decisions and adjustments based off what's going on in life, right? And we have this thing where we want to be like the superhero, like, no, I have to do this. I have to, no, we could just pause. It is your journey. So please, please, please remember if you're feeling frustrated or if you're feeling overwhelmed, it's okay to unplug, pause, stop, think about it and regroup, right? Come back tomorrow, come back in a few days. It's okay, why are all these goals to hit this before 30? It's like, you're still alive and life continues at 30. And it's, it's fine. Like I remember,

I tell people this all the time. Like, I remember turning 30. I'm like, oh, that's it. Like nothing changed. My life was the same. So you don't have to create these crazy timelines. Give yourself a few more years if you need it. It's be okay yes yes i mentioned in the book i was like my my mom turned 30 she had three kids and a husband same yeah mom too and i'm like there's no way i could i could have done that oh my gosh no way same same so you have you have a little bit of time 30 is not the end i promise neither is 40 or 50 like you got just enjoy everything's fine everything's fine. Everything's fine. But yeah, thank you so much. Where can people find you online

and where can they grab a copy of your book? So This Is Why I'm Broke. Yes. So my book, So This Is Why I'm Broke is found everywhere that they sell books. You can go to sothisiswhyimbroke.com so you have your choices and you can find me on Millennial in Debt

on any platform. I'm kind of everywhere. So anywhere you look, I'm there. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Melissa, for joining me on the podcast. Pleasure having you on. Yes. Thank you for having me.

And that is episode 372 with my guest, Melissa Jean-Baptiste. Make sure to grab a copy of her brand new book, So This Is Why I'm Broke, Money Lessons on Financial Literacy, Passive Income, and Generational Wealth. I will be giving away a copy of her book. So well, first, I'll get to that in a moment. But make sure to follow her on Instagram at Millennial in Debt. She's also at Millennial in Debt for TikTok. And on Twitter, it's at Mill in Debt. I'm going to link to everything in the show notes for this episode. But again, her website, unsurprisingly, is MillennialInDebt.com. Just go to the show notes for this episode, though, JessicaMorehouse.com slash 372. I will link to everything and include

a link to the contest page where you can enter to win a copy of her book and enter to win a copy of all the books featured on season 16 of the show. There's a lot of books I'm giving away. I'm going to be wrapping up this contest in just a few short weeks. So make sure that you enter right now. So this is not the final episode of season 16. I do have another episode dropping tomorrow. You're not going to want to miss it. It is all about really just understanding international banking and just an easier way to transfer and receive money, especially in Canada, where it is very difficult to do that. I have someone on the show that is going to talk about, you know, a solution that can kind of help us all. So you're not going to want to miss tomorrow's final episode of the show.

But since I am going to be off the air very soon, I do just want to remind you of a few important things. First and foremost, even though we are entering the summer months, the summer months are usually, you know, a time where we spend a lot of money, right? We just want to enjoy ourselves and live our lives. And I totally get it. And I think there's no problem with that as long as you do it, you know, within some, you need to have a plan, you need to have a budget, you need to give yourself some some sort of restrictions. Otherwise, you'll come into the fall and be like, what happened? How are we going to get out of this hole now? And so if you need some help with that, I do have some budget spreadsheets available to download on my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash shop is where you can find literally every, any type of budget for any type of financial situation. If you're self-employed, if you're an employee with a side hustle, if you're a couple

and one of you has a side hustle and one of you is an employee, if you're a couple and you're both self-employed, I mean, I can go on and on. There's a lot of different options. So go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. There's even a little quiz that you can enter your info into to tell you what is the appropriate budget spreadsheet for your situation. So check that out. But also, and this I think is also a great idea if you have a little bit more free time in this summer, if you want to learn more about investing and you're Canadian and specifically passive investing, like I talk about on the show all the time, you may want to find out more details about what the course is about and to apply, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash course to find all that information. But it's been honestly the best. The coolest thing about having this course is having the connections that I've been able

to have with my students. Once you're in the course, you get lifetime access. You get access to me in our private Facebook group. But also I do Q&A sessions on Zoom every single month, and I will be continuing to do them throughout the summer. But not only that, you get access to a ton of curriculum and resources and specific spreadsheets and tools that I personally built that do not exist anywhere else, hence why I had to build them myself, to not only educate you about the foundations of investing in Canada, but also how to do it on

your own, how to actually be a self-directed investor, how to be a passive investor, how to construct your own portfolio, how to rebalance your portfolio. All that stuff is inside the course. And it's just also built in with a great support system of me and other students. So go to jessicamorehouse.com slash course to learn more. Okay, so that is it for me. Thank you so much to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. And yeah, I will see you back here tomorrow for the final episode of the More Money Podcast season 16. Yeah, yeah, that's what's going to happen. You're going to come back here, you're going to listen to it. And then I'm going to say my final goodbye until we meet again in the fall.

So with that, I will see you back here tomorrow. Have a good rest of your day. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.