More Money Podcast - 374 Breaking Bad Money Habits - Gabe Dunn, Author of Bad with Money, Podcast Host and Actor

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

Welcome back to the More Money Podcast and the premiere of Season 17 of the show! To kick things off, I've got New York Times best-selling author, podcast host, actor and filmmaker Gabe Dunn on the podcast, who you may already be familiar with from their popular book and podcast Bad with Money. In this episode, Gabe shares their personal finance journey from navigating private school as a lower-income kid, to studying at an elite college accruing mountains of student debt, to working an unpaid internship that got them further into debt to afford food and rent, to eventually becoming one of the most honest and vulnerable voices in the personal finance space today. Not only does Gabe openly share the mistakes they've made and lessons they've learned along the way (so you don't have to repeat them), but they also share the raw truth about managing money with bipolar disorder and the real costs of transitioning especially in the midst of losing health insurance due to the WGA strikes. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/374 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. This is season 17 of the podcast, and we just surpassed eight years back in June, which is incredible. So for anyone who's been listening since season one, thank you so much for your continued attention and loyalty. That is wild. And for anyone who's new to the podcast and started in the first season, I'm sorry. I am sorry that it's I was just learning how to podcast and, you know, things have gotten better. I can I you know, if you you go, I'd say past year six or year seven. It's a different ballgame. I know. I know a lot more. I know a lot more. Anywho,

I have an amazing season for you some amazing guests and you will not I'm almost done recording all of my episodes, which I'm so proud of being very, like I started gathering guests in August, and I got them pretty quickly. Maybe I was just like motivated because I also am still working on my book. I'm the book is not it is not done, guys. I'm still working on it. And I wanted to make sure that I had an incredible podcast for you and also had enough time to finish this book. And it was also going to be a good book. So I can't wait to share this season. And I'm kicking off this season, the first episode season premiere with an amazing guest, someone who I have really, you know, been following and just like a fan of

for so long. And I was on their podcast and now they're on my podcast because I was that person who's like, hey, do you want to be on my show right after I was on their show? I have Gabe Dunn on the show. They are a writer, actor, filmmaker, stand-up comedian. Oh my gosh, I'm telling you that the resume is very exciting. Host of the YouTube channel and podcast Just Between Us with co-host Alison Raskin, as well as the host of The New Guys podcast with co-host River Butcher. They're also a New York Times bestselling author of I Hate Everyone But You and the author of Bad With Money, which is also a podcast they host. Yes, that is three podcasts, like making me feel lazy much. Anyways,

which we will be really diving into in this episode, because I'm a big fan of the book. And it really goes into, you know, Gabe's financial journey, money mistakes they've made along the way, and just some really authentic, raw money talk. Which really, you know, we don't see a lot in the personal finance space. I don't know about you. I'm on social media way too much, an unhealthy amount. And I blame it on being having to be on social media for my business. But honestly, most of the stuff that I look at is, is not business related. But anyways, I am always, you know, seeing stuff on my feed that is so well curated and is really making you just feel like, oh my gosh, am I the only one that feels like this? Am I the only one having a hard time with managing my day-to-day expenses? Am I the

only one who has financial anxiety? Because it looks like everyone online is making six figures a month by affiliate marketing. Is it just me that gets those things in my feed? I don't know. I get them a lot for whatever reason, probably because I hate to watch them. Anyways, so I have Gabe on the show. It is a real treat. You're gonna love this episode. So let's get to it. But before I get to that interview, I want to share a little bit more information about my online course that you may not even know about. But it's been around for almost three years called wealth building blueprint for Canadians is a course I built specifically with you Canadian listers in mind who want to learn how to do passive investing like I've been talking about for years on the show. If you want

to get rich slowly, invest for the long term, you don't want to day trade or dabble in something speculative like cryptocurrency or some hot stocks that you find online. You just want to make sure you can retire one day or, you know, save enough for buying a home. And this course can help you. It is specifically about all the fundamentals you need to know about investing as a Canadian. But then I also show you how to build a strategic investment plan, and then how to invest in your own portfolio by way of either using a robo advisor or doing it on your own from scratch. There's lots of worksheets and calculators and spreadsheets that you will not find anywhere else

on the internet, hence why I had to build them myself, but also get lifetime access as well as access to the private Facebook group, my monthly Q&A sessions for students, a private email you can contact me with, and you also get a private one-on-one session with me when you finish the course as well. There are so many benefits to the course. So I highly recommend going to jessicamorehouse.com slash course to find more information and to apply. Again, that's jessicamorehouse.com slash course to learn more and to apply. Welcome, Gabe, to the More Money Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you for having me. Nice to see you again. Yeah, nice to see you again. It was such a

treat to be on your podcast, talking about the difference between the US and Canada and finance. So I'm thrilled to have you on the show to talk more about you, your amazing book, Bad With Money, and just what's been going on since you released the book. A lot has happened. I also just like listened to your like, just dropped podcast episode about what you're dealing. Oh, yeah. You know, you're what I think is so great about you is you just you're very honest and real and unfiltered. And I think that's not what you see often in personal finance. It's all through a filter lens of look at me. I'm perfect. Well, that's really just not the reality. Thank you. I feel I feel horrible.

I felt I've been like, so stressed out since it dropped, like so stressed out. I am so sorry. I literally almost like how can I help? Do I know someone who's a lawyer that will work pro bono? I don't Oh my gosh. We'll get into that in a little bit. But yeah, I hear you. It's that's not a fun. That's not fun. But I know. But so what I absolutely love right in the get go of your book was you talk and again, I don't see this a lot in lots of books, you talked about your kind of family background and how, you know, growing up in a certain way with your parents and how they managed money and talked about money and thought about money, how that had a huge impact on you then managing money as an adult and probably still today.

I'm very influenced by my parents. Everyone's very influenced by the environment that they grew up in. And it is hard to sometimes learn and unlearn things. So I wanted to kind of start there because I know your book is bad with money, which sounds like you're so you need to be nicer to yourself. But I think part of it is like that is a common saying that I hear people say. I'm like, oh, I'm just bad with money. So do you want to kind of share when you had to start making some financial decisions for yourself? And I guess that really started when you were planning on going to college. You know, what was kind of the reality of the situation? You're like, oh, there's some costs involved. And, you know, should I which college should i go to and all that kind of stuff

i didn't know anything i didn't know anything about money i didn't know any like that loans would have to be taken out that they would be x amount of loans that there was a chance you wouldn't be able to pay them back right away. I very much I was so I was like gay in Florida, which now everyone sees as bad, but the time nobody really. Florida's had a Yeah. I mean, it wasn't great back then. So this was like, the 2006 is when I graduated high school. And it wasn't like great for gay stuff. I wasn't like out or anything. And, and so I knew that I wanted to leave Florida and I wanted to go to like a city in the Northeast. And I also wanted to study journalism. And there was a program in Florida called Bright Futures,

where I could have gone to like University of Florida for essentially free. But I was so nervous about being gay in Florida and not being able to come out. But I was so nervous about being gay in Florida and not being able to come out. And I was so nervous about like the prestige of where I was going that I really wanted to go to like a good quote unquote school. And I got a scholarship to Emerson. And so I decided to go there are also because I didn't get into Northwestern, which was my first choice. But like that would have been so expensive. Emerson was expensive, but it was it was like still half tuition, which was good. But I had no concept like nobody sat me down and said, oh, the loans are going to be X amount. And here's how you could possibly pay them off.

And here's what happens if you don't pay them off. And all these things like I talked about in my book that my little sister, when she was 18, she went to go get a neck tattoo. Not irresponsibly, like it was in honor of a friend who died, but you know, sort of she was like, I want to get a neck tattoo. And the guy at the tattoo parlor was like, if it's your first tattoo, and you're also 18, I'm not tattooing your neck. And that person showed more care for a 18 year old's future than any lone person ever did. And so I think about that a lot in terms of like what we normalize and what we have allowed like young people to do. And I think like, I think that at least for me, my parents really believe in me, really wanted me to succeed. We don't come from like a wealthy background. So to them, they were like, well, you'll be an investment. We'll push you forward. We'll have you like, you know, go to this good school or whatever. Because I had always done really well academically. And I think they, they just want, they don't want to have negative feelings, I think is what I'm realizing. Like, they love a good time. They love like being able

to do stuff. They don't, they never sort of let, they never let us know about money. And then they never sort of let money be an impediment to like, things that they wanted to do. So my parents would be very confusing, because they would some days be like, hey, let's go out. Let's do this. Let's get this, you know, like be very spendy. And then the next day, they would be like, what have we done? We can't buy anything. This isn't this is a disaster. And then when I, as a kid, would remember, I would say, hey, remember yesterday when we spent all that money? That might be why there's problems now. They would be like, you're a kid, mind your business.

Wow. Yeah. So it's very confusing. Yeah. So yeah, I guess, were you then, did you adopt some of those habits when you were an adult and sometimes you would just splurge and then sometimes you'd really regret and they'd be really hard on yourself and then it was kind of just a back and forth of you know guilt shame but then oh treat yourself or like yeah yeah because it's interesting as I've talked to a lot of people over the past year researching for my book I've heard a lot of similar stories and it's just if you have mixed messages the lesson you're going to learn is you know just mixed you're not going to have a straightforward I've heard a lot of similar stories. And it's just, if you have mixed messages, the lesson

you're going to learn is, you know, just mixed, you're not going to have a straightforward path. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I grew up in an addict in an alcoholic home. And I think that that also leads to impulsive behavior. You know, I have bipolar disorder. I think that there was a lot of I still grapple with this like life is short who cares like everything none of this is is fair or makes any sense or like I don't want to sit here and doing like be doing paperwork my whole life like you know all of this stuff that would then lead to sort of carelessness like with my first job I didn't check the box for tax deductions or you know which like is that fair that that's a thing that's allowed to happen yeah no i feel like yeah

at least for any job i've ever had it was automatic that was never a choice and that should not be someone's choice especially when you're like in your early 20s, I have no idea what that checkbox means. And I think like I just I still do deal with wanting to say fuck it and do whatever I want. I think, you know, when you when you have someone in your life who's an addict, the highs are high and the lows are low. And I I thought maybe that I was imagining some stuff. And when I went back to write my book, I went and read my journal from eighth grade and I didn't really even notice how much in that journal I wrote about money, even though it didn't seem like I was like,

I had entries where I would be like, my mom just took my sister to the mall. They came back with all these bags. I don't know how we're going to afford this. Like they asked me if I wanted to come. I was like, no. And then it became this running joke in my family.

Oh, Gabe's like a worry wart. Gabe never wants to go shopping. Gabe never wants to spend anything. Like we would go out with like my aunt and my mom and my sister would buy like five things and they'd be like, do you want anything? And I would always be like, no, no, no, no. Because I knew that she was getting stuff. Or like even now I grapple with or like taking any sort of

gifts or money from them because I, you know, my sister did and my oldest brother did. And I don't, I want to be the one who, you know, I'm like calculating in my head. Well, they don't have any left for me. So my sister now has a, she got promoted. So her job I think is much better. She's in a much better place, but yeah, like I think there was a feeling of like, okay, I I'm doing the math here and I, I think that I should just kind of bow out of this situation. But that didn't, yeah, but that didn't really happen with, with school. I justified it. Cause I was like, okay, I'm going to school. But I just never I made that decision myself to not engage with it because I don't I just I just suspected something was wrong. And I know there's a part of your book you talk about having you being part of a improv troupe

and having a boyfriend. He was the one who said, Why do you still have a bank account that's connected to your parents? And I think a lot of people probably have systems that are set up like that. Actually, my younger sister used to. And I'm like, why does mom still have access to your bank account? She never took money out. She would just put money in. But I'm just like, that's kind of weird. You're almost 30. Why is that happening? You should be independent. Yeah, I thought that was so interesting. Because, you know, having that connection kind of still kind of ties you to that place, maybe making it difficult for you to move forward and be more independent. I don't know, what was your experience like? And then you obviously did, you know, get your own bank account. I think stuff comes with ties. Like

my sister is much closer to my parents than I am, I think, because she, like, we're different in the sense that, like, if there was a leak at her apartment, she would call my dad. Whereas like I always am like, what is he going to do from miles away? Call your landlord. Yeah. Like what? But like for a lot of people my age, I see them even, you know, I'm 35. I still see people be like, oh, I got a form in the mail.

I'm going to call my mom. And I'm like, what? But I guess it's not weird mail I'm gonna call my mom and I'm like that's weird what but it's I guess it's not weird I guess you have like a good relationship with your your parents but and like that's fine I have a good relationship with my parents but like I just don't I just don't call them when I get something in them in the mail um and my sister you know still does uh and so and and my co-host I think my cohost of my podcast, who's my age, a little younger, uh, what still like gets a form and calls her dad. Like, yeah, I know. Um, and my mom is a lawyer. So there have been like legal things that I've run by her, but not just on the, on the premise of being. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, so I, I think I just, um, I, I started realizing that I needed independence and they didn't really like that at first. And it was a real uphill battle because when I got my own bank account, they were,

they were furious and they'll probably say they weren't, but they were. And then when I, uh, wanted to, what was the other thing I did? Oh, I got my own, I went on my own phone plan. I removed myself from the family plan. Sounds logical, you know. They were mad. And then it started to be when I would go home to visit, I started staying at Airbnbs or hotels instead of staying with them. And that was like a whole rigmarole, like a real problem. And I think sometimes for a lot of people, parents are like, well, as long as we have access to the money, we can control you in

some way, as long as we're giving you money or taking money or whatever it is. But then it's like, it's a process because it's like, okay, part of me is like, if your parents can give you money, just take the money. Like I get frustrated with friends of mine who, but like I get frustrated with friends of mine who I'm like, you're rich, like your parents could just give it to you. But then I'm also like, but I understand sometimes that like, especially with friends of mine who are queer or trans, it comes with a lot of strings. It comes with, you know, my parents gave me like a little something to pay off a credit card which i've i've just i used to really worry about where the money was coming from i've just stopped asking like if

they're doing crimes they're doing crimes it's not my business but not your problem it's not my problem but um or whatever they're up to i don't know i used to really worry about what they were up to and now i'm like it's i it's none of my business but But they're not doing crimes. But, you know, something's weird. But anyway, so they – but, you know, they did say on the phone. They were like, okay, our caveat is when we text you, you have to write back. And I was like, right. And that's fine. Like for them –

It's not unreasonable. No, it's not unreasonable. It's still a string. It's still like it's not a gift at that point. Then you're like, well, it's we're doing this. So we get something to. Yeah. Yeah. And that makes total sense. I mean, I had a I always think about in Gilmore Girls where she has to go have dinner with her grandparents in order to go to that school. Like that happens to a lot of people. And like, I get that. And like, of course, like, how do I know if I was a grandparent, I wouldn't be like, well, I want to see the kid I'm paying for, you know, like, I get that. So I don't know, it, it was really hard to detangle, I think, too. And I mentioned this a little bit in the book, I think, is like, we're Jewish family. And I think with ethnic families, there's a bit of a difference in the idea of the collective and like we are a family. This is the family. And so if you like leave, you know, the family plan or you move away or you whatever, it's very like, but this is the family. Yeah. Why are you leaving the family? It's like I'm not leaving the family, just leaving the phone plan. everything is everybody's or like why, you know, we talk about everything. We do everything,

you know, it's very, it was seen when I started to pull away and do my own thing, it was very, it was seen as like another me sort of being difficult. Yeah. And you're like, I just want to grow and do my own thing and explore. Yeah. I mean, things have changed. Definitely. Like, things have changed. But in the very beginning in early 20s, it was very much like, Gabe's a worrywart. Gabe's like doing all this stuff and trying to be independent from us for no reason. And why is Gabe difficult? And that kind of thing, which I think a lot of people have come up against. Yeah, I think that's really common. And another thing, too, it's I mean, I really enjoyed it. It really brought me back to some of the things that, you know, I experienced in my 20s, especially was, you know, when you did that, you know, free internship. And that is it's becoming less, I think, of a thing now. But back when, yeah, you know, I'm only two years older than you. I'm like, that was a big thing. Free internships. And for me, I'm like, I was telling my husband last time, like, I can never I was never able to do a free internship. I had to pay for school. So my parents let me stay at home for free, but I had to pay for school and

pay for everything else myself. I couldn't afford to do a free internship. That was, you know, kind of a luxury and privilege. And you kind of faced with that. You're like, well, I really want to do this. And it seemed very financially difficult. And the things that you had to do to make it work, just, you know, sell clothes and all this kind of stuff, you realize this really is not fair. This, and it's just like getting into college. A lot of the people that you went to school with, super smart, couldn't go to college because of the ridiculous cost. I thought that was a really important thing that you mentioned in your book is just like, it isn't the same playing field for everybody. And there are systems that are keeping the rich, rich and the poor where they need to be. Yeah. With the internship, it's now illegal. So I think with Viacom, where I was

working, they ended up getting sued years later. And they were for not paying interns and that became there were laws that got instituted that got instituted that changed a lot of that. So like the programs and stuff that I went through would not I think are not the same today and some people sued and got like back pay I think so it was yeah it was like peak what like 2008 so it was like peak like you should be grateful to be in New York you should be grateful to be doing this internship it was like peak like media being seen as like really cool or whatever um girls was on HBO you know it was like uh or whenever girls came out afterwards it was very uh when did girls come out it was like I'm like I remember I feel like I just finished I know 2012 okay so 2012 so I was I was living in New York

solidly uh and like there was this idea of, the glamour of being an intern or being an assistant or working your way up living in a shitty apartment. But then they weren't really shitty because on TV, they're not but gorgeous. Yeah, but it was very, it was like, shameful if you couldn't do those things. And so I really wanted to do, I really wanted to do all of that. And I thought that that was the key to succeeding. And I also was a very, it was the height of the daily show, which is where I did my internship. I was extremely obsessed with it. I had written like an essay in high school about how I wanted to have my own daily show type show that had

gotten into like best teen writers of 20 2006 or whatever it was you can that's called authors of tomorrow you can find it still it's very embarrassing um and uh and I and so I this was like a dream job but they were not going to pay. And so I went to New York and I just blew through everything I had made that year. And I just wasn't prepared for it at all. And I ended up, yeah, I, I like. Do you regret doing it? Like, are you glad that you went through it or because I know part of you talking about the book, you don't know if it could have helped your career or maybe it wasn't even an element. It you'll never know I will never know but I do think people saw the daily show on my resume and got excited I think so I mean I I think you know it's

interesting now like I worked on a show for Netflix um and I've done a bunch of other things but a lot of times when people are like, what have you done? And I list stuff. When I list that show, people are like, whoa. And that's like something I did for like eight months in 2018. You know what I mean? Like, not like that's not even a blip in my career. So I think like, it's unfortunate that these big name things sort of do latch on you know people latch on to them and then they give you credibility even though it's like not necessarily my biggest job um so that was the lure right is that they could say that and I could I could work I could

be like well I have to work here I have to work here for free I have to work here. I have to work here for free. I have to. And I was like, I mean, I talk about in the book, I had like no clothes for the job, really. I was like, got shoplifted from Urban Outfitters, which I guess I still stand by. But that was not great. And like, just had a bunch of, I tried to sell a bunch of stuff and i i think i like pawned some

stuff that i i really wish i hadn't but i like go through that every few i mean i don't know if it's bipolar disorder or if it's scarcity mindset or trauma or what but every so often i i think i don't know if it's a manic episode but i do sell everything i own every periodically that might be um like i don't know if I've ever done that before. Yeah, I get really nervous about not having enough money. And it does happen. Obviously, like we alluded to my situation now my quote unquote divorce, which is fucked me up heavily financially. And so yeah, like I'll go I would like go through phases where I would sell all my books or I would sell I would like sell all my like I'd be like, what do I need this table for sell it? Or so like there was, you know, things in New York. And then there's the scene that I write about where I'm trying to sell my I, I was like a thing that they an alarm clock that was also an iPod. Yeah. And I was like walking through New York and it was really

hot. And I was walking to the pawn shop and the bag broke and the speakers fell on the sidewalk and broke. And I just that like broke me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That sounds like a like an episode of it. Yeah. And I just I just like cried because, yeah, I mean, still to this day, the thing I cry about most is money, for sure. Number one. Yeah. So even now, like you, and I know you kind of touched on this in the book too. And this is, I think a big problem we see is you see the outward facing, like looking at your resume and just like, you have a Wikipedia page for God's sakes, and it has all these amazing things. And so from the outside, people are like, oh, I know you have like all these followers and stuff like that. And you're like, yeah, it doesn't necessarily equate to wealth having all of these things listed. And

I think a lot of people, especially when you're on like social media or stuff, you see someone, oh, someone has, you know, a lot of followers. Like, I feel like I was watching something. And yeah, I was talking about that. It's like, like oh you assume this person has 200 000 followers on instagram they were they have a lot of money and they're like no no they don't and that's kind of the problem because then it's harder for you to talk about oh yeah you talked about in the book where you know you can get uh you were doing what was it um uh one where we don't have that in canada but it's like you you deliver people's oh postmates or something postmates yeah we don't have post in Canada, but it's like you deliver people's food or something. Postmates. Yeah, we don't have postmates here. But you were doing that to make some extra money.

And then the fan saw you on the street. They're like, hey, can I get a photo? And you're like, oh, my God, I may not make money from Postmates if I'm late. And that's the reality. I think people get this idea that if you're you got some fame that you're doing OK. And you're like, no, we all got, you know, shit going on. Yeah. And people come from different financial situations. My co-host, who I did a lot of stuff with, she's very transparent about her family being wealthy, which I do appreciate. And she, we would get paid the exact same thing. Let's say we both get 50k for something. Mine would pay off a student loan and she would get to keep hers yeah and you're like so this is how you are easy you know it's easier for you to build your own wealth compared to me

because i'm starting under 50k like i'm in debt and you are starting in the black which is fine i want to talk yeah which is fine it's a reality that's the prop that's the reality and that's also why it frustrates when people were like just work work harder or just do this X, Y, Z. And you're like, we're not starting in the same place. But I want to talk about that 50K because you mentioned in your book that that was life changing money. And I think a lot of us, especially, you know, if you're a bit older, I always earned very little at all my corporate jobs. But then I got this one job, and it was like $15,000 more than I was earning. And literally remember calling my husband and being like, you won't believe my salary was $56,000 in this new job, like, you'll never believe how much I'm earning. And he's like, we're rich. Yeah, I remember that. That was life changing. Because before that, I was earning30,000 or $40,000 and just really, really just having a rough time of it.

And for you, you were able to sell a pilot of a show, which is so cool. And you got $50,000 and you're like that changed things. Do you want to kind of talk about what that experience was like? Yeah. I mean, we, Alice and I sold a show. It's funny because it's like, oh, you sold a show or you sold a book, but the money gets doled out over a year. So it actually kind of ends up being like a 50k salary actually. So like it gets doled out over the course of like, you know, the time or whatever.

But yeah, it was huge. I paid off my student loans. And I think I started a little retirement at that time, maybe. And that was like, you know, I think getting out of debt was like a huge, huge thing. Not that it's been like smooth sailing or whatever, like, you know, obviously, things go back and forth. But that was like a start to being able to have more than just like 50 bucks in my bank account at a time. And I didn't really have guidance around it. So I think I would have I what happened was like lifestyle creep, where I moved. I like went to I like went fucking Great Gatsby. Like I moved. I started throwing parties like it was so like, what? Like, I just felt like I don't know. I felt

like I wanted to like I was like, now I can have a better life. So I want to have a better life. But like, I didn't think about saving or invest. I didn't even know what investing was. I really never even thought about it. Yeah, I just kind of wanted I wanted the things that other people had. And I wanted that's normal. That's literally everybody. Like we look at people all the time. And we're comparing ourselves and we just want better things. Well, it's interesting, like, you know, social social media is hard because i think things are not real and um as you said like there was that guy who was talking about how he was on the red carpet for being in the bear that show the bear and he was saying that he was on the red carpet

for being in the bear and he didn't have like 20 bucks which which character was i can't remember it was a it was a it was a thing where he was talking about the strike um the bear actor no money was that what i would should google that makes me sad that that's a google i know um yeah oh a writer for the bear sorry a writer you know what i feel like i saw that. I think it was. Yeah, I read that or I saw that online or something about it's like you think that the successful show and I think the bear is an incredible show. I love it so much. Right. And you think everyone would profit off it and do well. And it's like, no, no, it's a writer, Alex O'Keefe, who wrote for the bear. He was like on the red carpet for the bear and he didn didn't have any he was living below the poverty line and so i think there's like a lot of stuff where like you can see these photos i'm seeing it now it's kind of interesting i'm my feed is almost entirely people who are at new york fashion week and i'm wondering if they if any of them have money does that make sense like i keep looking yeah and being like some of these influencers or whoever's going to new york fashion week like that's got to be expensive, especially you have to dress up and all that stuff. I'm like maybe I could go.

Like is it better? Here's my thing, Jessica. Yeah. Is it better for me to have pretended and not done the podcast episode where I talked about what's going on with me financially? Is it better for me to pretend and to get some clothes and go to New York Fashion Week and take the photos and be an influencer and show those and be and then people think I'm successful and then they give me more jobs? Or is it better for me to be honest, not do that? And quote unquote, fake it till you make it, which I did a lot in my beginning of my career. Is it better to not do that? And to just like,

be honest about what's going on? Because I'm mostly embarrassed. I would rather be posting from New York Fashion Week and stuff and I can get more jobs. And then then maybe I can bridge that gap with that money. So it's true. But I feel like in the grand scheme of things, the best thing you could do, especially for your audience who follow you and are like looking to you as someone that they can really trust, it's always better to be honest, even if it means leaving money on the table. Like I know. Well, I don't know this, but I believe part of the reason that I'm probably not as wealthy or as successful, you know, outward facing as part of the reason that I'm probably not as wealthy or as successful you know outward facing as it could be is because I say no to a lot of things that ethically just do not jive with me and part of that is like I don't talk about how much you know I'm honest but I also keep certain things private and part of that too is just like

respecting my partner who's like I work in music I work with a lot of people that do not earn a lot of income and it just is awkward if you talk about our financial situation no matter what it is I just don't want people to know our business because he wants to also you know be just have control over how he has some boundaries yeah yeah exactly just doesn't want people to know all of our details and I I totally respect that. But I try to be as honest as possible and say no to a lot of things. And I think it was really like, I don't think you should be embarrassed. I think it's really brave for you to be that honest about your situation. Because for me, I mean, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. This is we don't hear enough of this. All I see on my feed is people being like, I made $100,000 this month. And I'm like,

so that makes me feel like crap. Whereas yours, I'm like, I feel month. And I'm like, so that makes me feel like crap. Whereas yours, I'm like, I feel seen. And I feel like so many other people feel seen. And that is how you can start to make change in your life. If you feel like, oh, I have a similar situation. Well, I'm going to follow you and see where you go. And I'm sure it's going to end up in some situation, maybe not how exactly you want it, but it's going to end okay. And you're going to thrive after because you've proven so many times you've you know faced so many difficulties and you always come out on the other side so I think that is a better message to get across for yourself ethically but also just to your audience so I think I think it's a wonderful thing maybe I appreciate it I

think sometimes I you're just going through it right now so it's hard to see it I think sometimes I look at stuff and I go well the bad guys win know, like life isn't life isn't fair. Like a lot of people monetarily, you know, they they do everything right. And they still end up in a car accident. They still end up, you know, something, anything, addiction, anything like stuff that people go, well, that's your fault. Like, you know, anything that, like it's not fair. Like life happens to people in a way that is just exceedingly unfair. Absolutely. It's not about just making choices and doing the right thing and working hard.

It's not. It's like some people will just always have a tougher time and never be able to reach some of those heights that other people are a lot more easily because of circumstance because of generational wealth and all these things that are you know you can't control and it's and it sucks i mean it bugs me that was it um you know the amazon guy or whatever he has like a 500 million dollar yacht and like if this person had more of a moral compass it maybe he'd realize instead he could donate 500 million dollars and change the world but he wants a yacht and there's nothing i can do and in the u.s things are not set up uh well for example we had a woman

episode that came out today uh with a debt lawyer and she was talking about how like they have to like negotiate to get things forgiven and stuff and she was like well uh you know i have it's up to the creditors and we don't know how they make their decisions and i have people that are like like she was like i have a client that both kids have cancer and and the creditors are like too bad so sad like there's like not really um hardship like there's not the same sort of like hardship forgiveness as you would think no yeah it's it's i mean i i guess that's the big problem of like hardship forgiveness as you would think. No. Yeah. It's it's I mean, I guess that's the big problem in a capitalist society.

It's all about money first, everything else second. And what are these companies need their money for? Like what are these credit card companies? Shareholders. Oh, whatever. Shareholders. Shareholders dividends, which always drives me crazy when I see all these like dividend investor be like, this is great.

I'm like, there's it's it's a lot more complex than that. And this is how, anyways, that's a whole other story. One other thing I really wanted, or two other things I really, really wanted to talk about were number one, you did mention your bipolar disorder. This is something that also is not talked about enough in the personal finance spaces. If you have some mental health issue or even like a chronic illness or anything, that is going to make things more difficult for you. And it is never talked about. People just assume, oh, no, everyone's, you know, fine. I'm like, well, I've been doing a lot of research where I book everyone has something. Yeah, it's got something. But how has that affected you?

And what have you been able to do once you were diagnosed to recognize, oh, maybe I'm acting in a certain way and this is not going to help me if I make this financial decision? That's my favorite chapter in the book because I talk about the breakdowns that I've had and flying to Paris, which I guess is a thing that people with bipolar disorder love to do is fly to Paris. Just Paris? Yeah, there's something about Paris, where like, so many people with bipolar disorder are like, I flew to Paris, like, I don't know what it is. People with mental illness love Paris. So it's romantic. It's beautiful. Yeah, I get it. And so like, I think getting diagnosed helps me look at whether behaviors are based in reality or not. Like, do I actually need this? Can I slow down? Can I, you know, am I going to really do this? But it's scary because sometimes I do have ambitions and things that I want to do. And I go, am I, am I, is this real? Which is really hard to grapple with is this is this real is this something

that is going to be a problem in the long run like you know I'm trying to make this I'm trying to get this movie made and it's like is that is that am I being crazy am I being delusional is that real and then it's like you have to yeah like are some of the risks you took to succeed in your career were they real was it real your ambition or was it your bike yeah that may like yeah you can do this and like does it matter and were they if they came if they they didn't shake out financially were they worth it because of getting me to somewhere like i'm not very good at i mean i always say this and people say that's not true that i'm not very good at being strategic like i just have never had whatever people have where they can move through the world in a non emotional way to sort of get things.

But sometimes that doesn't work. You know, I'm very strategic. And I'm like, Hmm, I wish I took more risks. I wish I did. You know, I wasn't too analytical. Because then when you analyze too much, then you don't do anything yeah that's true but sometimes it's like i needed to stop and do things in a more methodical way like every day i want to go on tiktok and just like start problems and i have to just not um and that's hard and like i've made bad decisions because i've had poor impulse control. And that sucks. And there's not really any way to like get that back or come,

come back from that in some ways. Like you just have to. So how do you, how do you manage that on a day-to-day basis? Is it just like something like an active, you know, practice you have to do just to be mindful? Yeah. It sucks.

It's hard. It's like not, it's not fun. It's not great like i'm medicated um but like you know it's not like i i talked i've talked about this a lot but people think that if you're medicated for something then you've uh like you just stop having the problems but yeah like it's a cure you're like no it's not a cure with bipolar disorder i describe it as like a train and the train is barreling and it wants to go down one track and normally if i wasn't medicated it would just go but what the medication does is give me

the five seconds to pull the lever and it's not as though i'm not having the thoughts it's not as though i don't want the train to go it's not as though like i not having the thoughts. It's not as though I don't want the train to go. It's not as though like, I'm not like living a blissful, whatever. I'm like, just have the ability to pull the lever. And that's like, gives, you know, that gives me time to like live life productively or live life, whatever, in a, in a way that isn't distressing to me. Do I always get to, do I always get to lever in time? No. And is like, so it's still fighting with your own head. It's not like, oh, the, everything goes away, which I found interesting. Like when I spoke to people with schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia that I assumed I even

assumed I was like well if you're medicated you don't see things anymore and my friend was like no you still see things you just know they're not real and I was like cool for everyone cool oh gosh yeah that's yeah I mean I think that's that's it I mean, I think that's, that's, I mean, yeah, again, like that is not something anyone talks about. Because a lot of, I mean, as we becoming a society more aware of mental health. Yeah, no one talks about how that could affect your bottom line. Of course it can. Of course, every decision that we make, you know, has some semblance of some some effect on your financial life and so how could that not affect that yeah i mean i got i i got um uh started seeing a therapist for autism a couple years last year a couple years a year and a half ago what is time and uh yeah and that i think is factored into a lot of stuff too because i think with my current situation with my breakup I think I was very trusting in a lot of ways because I've had a lot of problems in my life surrounding the idea that well I'm a good person and I don't have bad intentions so so why would anyone else

um which has been a problem which is sad that that's a problem because that's how we should look at our fellow human. It's like, I'm good. I'm going to make the assumption off the bat that you were good unless you show me otherwise. But sometimes it's too far down. You're too far down the road to find out, oh, maybe, maybe not. Well, why would I? If I wasn't going to do that to someone, why would they do that to me? Why would someone else?

But it's like it just leads to being taken advantage of, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. It's a cruel world. I know. It's a cruel world. The last thing I really wanted to touch on, I think this is, you know, something I've

definitely never talked about on the podcast, but I think is important is, you know, you have transitioned your Gabe when you came out with a book, originally, you were Gabby. And that, again, is something that, you know, I actually have a cousin who's trans and something that I would kind of thought about was like the financial side of things. No one really talks about that. Like, obviously, it's a whole big conversation. But just talking about the financial side of things, if that's something that you're like this is what I want to do there's not a lot of support whether you're in Canada or the U.S. not a lot of financial support if that's something that you want to move forward with and so did you want to kind of talk about I did a little research just on the Canadian side to be like what is covered and isn't most things just aren't even though we

have technically universal health care in the U..s what's it look like what's if you want to start doing the process you know what are some like figures that people should have in mind it's interesting because my top surgery was covered uh for health insurance um i had to go and get like diagnosed with like gender dysphoria but like um it's interesting because i've been keeping track a lot more of like diy transition stuff. So like, so like people who have been saying like, hey, you know, if you're not going to be able to get hormones in your state, you can order them here. And then it's like, you know, I'm not saying you should, but this is an information or like, you know, and it's kind of hearkening back to like early days of or like people transitioning in times before trans people were really visible, where it's this like helping each other sort of Underground Railroad type thing or like people really like coming together and sort of taking care of each other or helping each other or if somebody gets a surgery, helping them or like so you don't have to pay for as much, you know, care or whatever. I mean, I went to the store. I bought like $300 worth of like bandages and stuff, which I did like end up needing.

But it was like other people came through and said, oh, I actually, when I had top surgery, I have, I used this thing for my seatbelt. That was really helpful. It gave me that, or, you know, so there's been a lot more of like a community coming together that I think was always there, but now it's like more visible from social media. Definitely. And so, you know, my top surgery was, it was like 10k, it was covered by health insurance, maybe a little more, I don't know. And then, you know, I'm dealing with losing my insurance through WGA because of the strike. And so when I lose that, that one of the considerations was, well, I want to be able to stay with my gender affirming care doctor, but does that mean that I'm going to have a higher payment per month?

Could I go see a doctor who's a little further away for gender affirming care, but how would that time out with gas versus paying just you know so it's like like you know it cut doves tails with health care being very unfair and untenable in the u.s but um yeah i mean it depends on what you want to do like my testosterone is covered uh for i get it for like 12 bucks um but there was a thing where it was like i had to wait like seven weeks for it to get approved and it was a whole rigmarole and they were like we can give it to you now for seven hundred dollars and i was like very tempted yeah and then i was like no and then i did i made a series of tiktoks crying about it uh but yeah it was just like you know and i was sort of like baffled where i was like you could just give this to me why just give it to me but like they can just like, you know, and I was sort of like baffled where I was like, you could just give this to me. Why just give it to me? But like they can't. And then, you know, there's different doctors at different pharmacies or different pharmacists. Like, you know, my I needed a certain type of needle and it wasn't prescribed or blah, blah, blah. And this one pharmacist was like, just handed them to me and was like, go. And like, it's just, you know, like depends on who you're talking to.

With name change stuff, that was like some paperwork. It cost me about like 625, I think, to change my name. Like $625? Yeah, and to get the three certified copies. So it was like four something to change the name and then 150 for the certified copies, 50 each. And then I had to go to the banks and get that changed.

Bank of America did it, no problem, super easy. There's certain things that are funny, like Bank of America did it, no problem. Marriott Bonvoy is giving me a hard time. Like, you know what I mean? For your like Bonvoy? Yeah, they like a whole thing so it's super funny um like who you and then also it really depends on who you get like I went to the social security office to get um to get a new social security card and I was in line and I knew that if it timed out that I got the young woman,

I would be okay versus I didn't know about these other people. So I ended up, it timed out that I did end up getting the woman at the, the young woman at her window. And I knew as soon as she looked at the paperwork and looked up and was like, she was like, Hey, congratulations. I was like, all right, this is going to be smooth sailing, but it's, it's, you never know. But that's something you have to worry about. It's like, who am I going to get on the phone or at the checkout? I went to the DMV to get all of that changed the day after there was that shooting where the shooter was a trans guy, allegedly. And I went to the DMV. And I was like in line and it occurred to me like, Ooh, I should have gone a different day

because I don't know what these people are thinking. I don't know what news they've taken in. I don't know. Um, it ended up being fine. Cause I got a really nice, well, I got the first time I got someone who turned me away and I had to go to the social security office first, which was fine. And then I came back that, and those, those are the rules, but also like there could have been someone who would have been like, whatever. Um, and got back there was i had a another woman and she was very much like um oh this is so exciting and like was like positive so that's gonna be really difficult not knowing what you're gonna get in terms of someone being like oh this is great or someone being like i'm gonna make this really difficult for you. Yeah. And you're like, it's already difficult. Yeah, we don't know.

You don't know. And they don't, they might not understand initially what's happening. Like, they're, they're like, oh, you're changing your, and then they like, don't really know. But I did change my gender marker, too. So I think most people understood what was happening. But yeah, it's just a lot of, you know, little things. Yeah. Do you think about how, especially, you know, being a woman transitioning to a man, do you ever worry about, is this going to impact my financial future, my earning potential? Yeah, absolutely. Are people going to look at me differently? Of course. It absolutely has. Of course. There's tons of, I mean, you get, I mean, I don't even know where to start. Like, hey, best finance books by women list on Forbes or whatever, right? I'm not on that list anymore. Or brands that I've worked with in the past, I see them still working with other people for like female empowerment, financial, which like, I totally understand even like a sex toy company that worked with me is like, hasn't reached out. And I'm like, that's interesting.

Like, um, it's, it's, and it's like, great, but like, it's funny because there's never going to be a list that's like best trans books about finance or something so niche, like best personal finance books by trans authors. You're like, we're not at that stage yet where there's enough. Exactly. And, you know, there's people who I think there was like a jarring situation with my following, which they really, you know, they felt very some of them were going through a similar thing or felt seen. Other people were like, you were this feminist voice and now you're, you know, and now you're're you could still be a feminist well yeah it's just but yeah they had this idea of you and they're like i'm confused yeah the brand is not consistent so it was not i would say it was not a people think like i can remember someone

saying like oh now you're gonna get so many jobs and i was like that is not that is a falsehood that you have been sold because you're becoming a man no because because people want diversity and i was like oh that's gross i was like gross thing to say that's not that has not been the case at all like it's not gonna i mean some movies don't play in certain countries because there's a trans actor in them yeah so yeah it's not it's not it was not a good business decision but it's i mean hopefully this i mean i hope you know the stuff we're talking about won't be much of an issue in the future but it's it's yeah that's it's just even yeah you mentioning like when they list books they

are gendered like best well maybe you don't really see any lists about best books by men anymore but you see them about women and it's funny too because it's like even being a woman i hate how things are so gendered because i've just been fighting as a feminist i've been fighting my whole life i'm like i'm more than a woman i'm actually like just good at fighting like like whenever i meet someone new they're like oh so you teach women about money i'm like no i just happen to be one right it drives me crazy like why could i only teach women about money because i'm a woman and I teach like I teach pink finance like what are you thinking yeah it's that we're not yeah we're not there yet yeah but

I hope we do because you still have an amazing voice and it's it's that's that's insane to me that you know people would have a problem with that but uh yeah I don't want to discourage anyone from transitioning but it is it is definitely an interesting new world yeah i mean i i worried about that with my cousin i mean she's she's young so she still has you know many years but i was just like i was really worried i'm like is she gonna have a difficult time finding work now yeah because you know it could be still i mean they're not like allowed to discriminate, but they still kind of are. They still do. I mean, yeah, they say they're not supposed to do that on race and they do. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. Well,

I appreciate you being so candid and honest about that, because I think, again, people listening, they don't hear this often, you know, podcasts, but especially personal finance podcasts. And I think it's really, really important for us to talk about some of these things. So I don't want to keep you much longer. But again, I know you have the book Bad With Money. You have another book. You have a couple books. You're also a New York Times bestseller, which is like you have, again, the craziest resume. Do you want to kind of share anything else that you have that people can check out? And then also, where can people find you? You have an amazing YouTube channel, amazing podcast. Yeah, I have a podcast with my friend Allison.

We do Just Between Us. Yeah, I love it. Then I have Bad With Money, which is my finance show. And I also have a trans guy podcast called The New Guys, K-N-E-W, with my friend River Butcher. I love that. That's a great name. Thank you. And yeah, the second book that came out was called Stimulus Wreck.

And it was through Scribd. And that was super fun. It was like an update to Bad With Money based on the pandemic. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of all over the place. I'm on Instagram at Gabe S. Dunn. That's like where you can find everything. And of course, your TikTok.

That's another place. Oh, Dabby Gunn. Yeah, which I'm not allowed to change because I'll lose my blue check. So I gotta figure out what to do about that too. There's gotta be someone, you know,

that's the frustrating thing. It's like, there's gotta be somebody you can talk to. Yeah. Like it's ridiculous. I know. Well, thanks again

for joining me on the podcast. It was such a treat having you on. Oh, thank you. And that was episode 374 of the More Money Podcast with Gabe Dunn. Make sure to check them out. There are many things just between us, a podcast and YouTube channel, the New Guys podcast, and also Bad With Money, the podcast.

And make sure to grab copies of I Hate Everyone But You and Bad With Money. And don't forget to follow Gabe on TikTok and Instagram, everywhere you can find. I'm going to link everything to make it really easy for you in the show notes for this episode, jessicamorehouse.com slash 374. And if you need a reminder about where you can find information about any episode I've ever released, all you have to do is go to my website, jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast. And if you know the particular, you know, episode number, and all of them, I think, come with episode numbers, they should anyway, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever

the number of that episode is. And if ever you cannot find an episode, you're like, there's this episode with this person about this topic, I can't remember. Honestly, I don't mind getting an email or a DM, I get those all the time. And because I've been doing this for so long, I remember every single guest, every single topic, and I will be able to tell you in two seconds to save you a little Google. I don't mind. And also, it's a nice way to say, hey, I like the podcast so much that I'm trying to find this episode to share it with somebody that I really like or something like that. I don't know. I don't know. I will also be giving away a copy of Gabe's book, Bad With Money. So just keep on listening for some

more information about that. But before I get to that and give you a little life update, because I have not talked to you for several months, I just have a few things that I want to share with you that you may not know about. Do you want to figure out where your money is going? Do you want to organize your finances once and for all? Do you want to feel less anxious about your money. Well, I have a great tool for you, my collection of budget spreadsheets, which you can find at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. These new and improved budget spreadsheets have helped thousands of people over the years. And these are honestly the budget spreadsheets that me and my husband

still use today. They come in Google Sheets and Excel. They also come with a comprehensive video tutorial to show you exactly how it works. And they're very easy to use. Not only that, I've got versions for pretty much any scenario. So if you're an employee, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. If you are self-employed, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. If you're in a couple and one of you is an employee and one of you is self-employed, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. I've got seven different budget spreadsheets for any kind of situation. So no matter what's going on in your life and your income, I've got a budget spreadsheet for you. So if you want to take action and see some progress with your finances, this is one really easy step that you can take right after listening to this episode. Just go to

jessicamorehouse.com slash shop, find the right budget spreadsheet for you, and then start making some moves that future you will be really, really thankful for. Okay, okay, okay. So first things first, if you want to enter to win a copy of Gabe's book, Bad With Money, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest is where you can find that. This is kind of an exclusive contest for podcast listeners because it's not, you can't find it on my website unless you know the link, you not, you can't find it on my website unless you know the link. You can't find it. And it's funny because I feel like I was, I don't know, maybe it was like an autofill or whatever. Maybe I was Googling myself. And one of the autofills was Jessica Morehouse contest. I'm like, ha ha, I don't

think you'll find that link. You have to go to the URL. And it's really just a, you know, this contest really is for listeners who want to support me, but also I want to support you and your financial, you know, journey and literacy. And also, you know, they're all authors that have been on the show. So JessicaMorehouse.com slash contest is where you can find all that information. Also, just want to give you a reminder. I also have a YouTube channel. Just, you know, Google Jessica Morehouse in YouTube. You'll find me right there. I think that's just what my YouTube channel is called Jessica Morehouse. I'm also on the gram Instagram. No one calls it the gram anymore. Instagram. I don't know if they ever did. And I am at Jessica I Morehouse. The podcast also has

its own Instagram account, which I am trying to be more active on at more money podcast. And Twitter like exploded. And I no longer really use X Twitter, whatever the hell it is. I guess I'll probably keep on just out of habit for all these years. Gosh, I've been on there for like a decade or something. I'll probably keep on, you know, posting some news things or, you know, whenever I'm on the news or, you know, when I'm when I have a podcast episode, but I'm just not I don't love it. I am on threads, though. Yeah, I also don't love it. I'm getting used to it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. Instagram is what I'm really leaning into. Because listen, so yeah, let me get to the life update. Still writing this book. I am more than halfway done, but I am nowhere near done because it feels like it's never going to end. And I'm enjoying the process, but I'm also hating it. And apparently that is very normal for writing at least your first book. Or I don't know, I've talked to lots of authors have multiple books, and they hate and love the process as well. And, you know, I know I'm in a very privileged position to be able to write a book like I'm so lucky. And I know I'm so, so lucky. But also, it still doesn't take away

the, you know, mental anguish and all the self doubt and just like, all the negative thoughts that just, you know, go into my head being like, what are you doing? Who said you were an author? You know, normal stuff that we all deal with, imposter syndrome, all that good, good, good, good stuff. But things are going well. Thank you for asking. Yeah, the book is going well. For anyone who's, you know, wondering what's going on. So I have until the end of January to hand in my full manuscript and I've created a schedule. I feel like I made, yeah, I did. I made an Instagram reel. It's actually pinned on my Instagram right now that you can find that kind of shares my book writing process a little bit. Got a little spreadsheet because why wouldn't I? And I'm

basically writing one chapter a month. And so far that kind of sequence is working for me. But as you know, time is taken, especially fall is always really busy for me work wise, which again, not complaining, very privileged to be working. Thank you so much. I need to pay my bills. Mortgage is very expensive. It's just, you know, it's terrifying that I'm just have I literally have nightmares, just like when you're in school. And you're like, Oh, my gosh, forgot to hand in that paper. I am terrified of not meeting my deadline. I know I will because I am very good under pressure, but I also am worried that Jessica will, yes, me in the third person, I will just wait until the last week to write two chapters. I'm not going to let that happen, but I'm terrified that it'll accidentally happen. It won't happen, but it might. I don't know. So yeah, book writing is good. Thanks.

But yeah, trying to focus more on doing Instagram because I'm just not a natural at it., I don't know. So yeah, book writing is good. Thanks. But yeah, trying to focus more on doing Instagram, because I'm just not a natural at it. And I'm just like, just do it. And just don't care what people think, because I'm very, you know, you know, I care about what people think, because I am human, but I'm just gonna do it more. Because honestly, part of the game that I've been talking to authors, too, is it's not just about writing a book or a good book is about selling the book. And I already hate talking about marketing now. But honestly, I'm terrified about that process, too. I've just heard so much bad stuff about the process. It's, it's really bad for authors, they really have to do it all. And so the authors that you see that are like, oh, I sold so many books is because they have a big audience or, you know, big social media reach and stuff like that. So I guess I have to focus more on Instagram. But I if it was just

me, I would just do the podcast and live in the woods. You know, that's what I just want to do. I don't want to do Instagram, but I have to because I have to work to make a living. And that's just life. That's just life. And that's okay. Anyways, I've been rambling. I am so sorry. I just want to say thank you so much for joining me again for another season of the podcast. Like I said, I have so many amazing guests coming on the show. Let me tease who is going to be on the podcast next week. We have we have Eleanor Tucker. She is the author of Thanks for Sharing. She's British. Yes, love a British. I love everything about the UK. And so I read her book over the summer. It is about the sharing economy. It was

so awesome. And it's very much about, again, her, you know, she did all these different things to figure out how to do things, you know, get things for free or secondhand for an entire year. And it was so inspirational and so entertaining to read. She was a great writer. And so I got her on the podcast. And that was very exciting. And you're gonna love that episode. So that is coming next Wednesday. So yeah, look out for that. But that is it for me. And you're going to love that episode. So that is coming next Wednesday. So yeah, look out for that. But that is it for me. Thank you so much to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout. He was nice enough in June when we were wrapping up the season to send me a gift because A, he also knows me because he listens to my voice and all of my

mistakes that he edits out. But he sent me a cookbook because he knows I love baking and I talk about it on the podcast to celebrate 100 episodes together. And which is crazy because that's like, that's a good chunk of all my episodes for 375. Gosh, gosh, look at that. So thanks, Matt, for the cookbook and shout out to you for being amazing as always. But yeah, that is it for me. Have a good rest of your week. And I will see you back here with a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast next Wednesday. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.