More Money Podcast - 380 The Art of Reinventing Yourself with Mary Sanders - Olympian and Author of 9 Lives by 35

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

What's it like to be an Olympian, a Cirque du Soleil performer, and a Vice President of Entertainment and Pictures for Shark Tank Robert Herjavec's company? Well, that's why I've got my next guest on the show to tell me, in addition to sharing the lessons she's learned about reinventing herself (multiple times) which she documents in her new book . Mary learned the value of a dollar early in life when her dad passed away when she was 8 and her mom had to raise her and her siblings on a single income. Inspired by her dad's legacy as a Big Ten Champion, she started taking gymnastics seriously and soon became a two-time Canadian Champion in Rhythmic Gymnastics. Keen to reach her full potential, she started competing for the U.S. and eventually made it to the 2004 Olympics. But what happens when you've aged out of professional sports? You need to reinvent yourself, which is what Mary did by starting a new career with Cirque du Soleil. But after several years as a performer, she realized she needed to pivot again, which brought her to her current career in business. Mary's story of starting from almost nothing to becoming a champion gymnast to then having to switch careers multiple times should serve as inspiration for us all that life isn't a straight and narrow path and it's okay to experience setbacks in life. What's important is to keep going, changing, and being open to what life has in store for you next. For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/380 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is episode 380, and I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse. Welcome back to the show. I have quite the guest for this episode. I've never had an Olympian on the show, and now I can say that I have. I have Mary Sanders on the show. She was a two-time Canadian champion in rhythmic gymnastics until she made the switch to compete and represent in the U.S. She's a dual citizen. That's why she did that in honor of her father's legacy, who was a Big Ten champion from the University of Michigan and was also a coach and mentor until he sadly passed away from cancer when she was eight. And overcoming an incredible set of challenges from the outset that

would probably deterred most of us, she looked to her single mother and her older brothers for inspiration, which eventually got her to the 2004 Olympics where she competed in rhythmic gymnastics and had a very successful career as a gymnast. She was also a two-time U.S. champion, a Pan American with five gold medals, four continents champion, two-time athlete of the year, USA Gymnastics Hall of Fame inductee, and she's earned the title as the most successful rhythmic gymnast in all of the Western Hemisphere. And that wasn't cool enough. She also was in Cirque du Soleil for a good portion of her career. And so we are having a discussion about what it's like being an Olympian, what it's like to compete or just, you know, be at that level. It just sounds, I can't even imagine.

But then also what it's like after after because I think often we look at these sports stars, gymnasts, Olympians, and we're like, that's incredible. And we rarely talk about what happens to most of these athletes. After you can't be a gymnast forever, there's kind of a certain age range you have to be to be competitive. And we talk about how to pivot how to, you know, figure out what is your identity now, how to restructure your career or start a completely new career, which I think even if, you know, people like you and me are not Olympians, we can definitely relate. And she also has a new book out called Nine Lives by 35. We dive into that. It is her kind of life story. And I'm

going to be giving away a copy. So listen to the end of this episode to learn how to enter to win. Lots of good stuff. So let's get to it. But before I get to that interview, I want to share a little bit more information about my online course that you may not even know about, but it's been around for almost three years called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. It's a course I built specifically with you Canadian listeners in mind who want to learn how to do passive investing like I've been talking about for years on the show. If you want to get rich slowly, invest for the long term, you don't want to day trade or dabble in something speculative like cryptocurrency or some hot stocks that you find online. You just

want to make sure you can retire one day or save enough for buying a home. And this course can help you. It is specifically about all the fundamentals you need to know about investing as a Canadian. But then I also show you how to build a strategic investment plan and then how to invest in your own portfolio by way of either using a robo-advisor or doing it on your own from scratch. There's lots of worksheets and calculators and spreadsheets that you will not find anywhere else on the internet, hence why I had to build them myself, but also get lifetime access as well as access to the private Facebook group, my monthly Q&A sessions for students,

a private email you can contact me with, and you also get a private one-on-one session with me when you finish the course as well. There are so many benefits to the course. So I highly recommend going to jessicamorehouse.com slash course to find more information and to apply. Again, that's jessicamorehouse.com slash course to learn more and to apply. Welcome, Mary, to the More Money Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. I'm really excited. Yes. I mean, I'm looking at you right now. People cannot see this, but you have a ton of medals in the background. I don't think I've ever had a guest that has so much hardware.

That's funny. Yeah, yeah. It's all from a previous life, obviously. They were all in a box, hidden away at my mom's event, you know, COVID hit, and we all needed some hobbies. So my husband, he took it all out of the boxes, put them all out. So my office is a bit of a shrine now. But it's good for certain conversations, a good conversation starter. Yeah. Do you find it's a good, like, reminder and motivator to be like, oh, remember all the things that I thought I couldn't do and I did? Right. I mean, I think for me, I never wanted to flaunt any of my success or anything like that. Hence why they were in a box until I was 35 years old. It just, you know, yes, I'm proud of my

accomplishments, but they don't define me every day. And I have new goals in life that I don't try to look back and, oh, I was so good at that competition, you know, so I think I try to just constantly move forward, set new goals. But I think since having kids, it's actually, it's been great having, you know, the medal shown because my daughter's like, I want one of those. And I said, well, you know, you got to work hard to get one of those. So it's actually kind of opened some conversations with my kids. So I think it's actually good at this point in my life. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure like most little girls, myself included, I definitely was having a conversation with a friend about this, actually, who she actually did do some gymnastics, but I always dreamed of being in the Olympics and, you know, doing I mean, every kind of activity in the

Olympics. I never tried a gymnastics class. I never ended up doing it. But I loved watching the Olympics. And it's so crazy. I'm sure I watched you when it was televised, you know, because I watched every single time it was on. Do you want to kind of take us back and share a little bit of your origin story? So you're a two time Canadian champion in rhythmic gymnastics, and many more. I mean, like it's a huge paragraph of all the things that you were able to accomplish. But what I find interesting, so you started competing on the Canadian side, then you transitioned to the U.S. side. Do you want to kind of share a little bit more about how did you get started? Absolutely. I basically was born into gymnastics.

My father was my coach. He was a diver and a trampolinist. So he was very, very involved in gymnastics. He didn't go to the Olympics because trampoline wasn't an Olympic sport back then. But he was, you know, a Big Ten champion, went to the University of Michigan. He was American and then met my mom in Canada. And then, you know, they had my two older brothers and then myself. And my brothers didn't have really a gymnastics bone in their body. They were really good at swimming, baseball, kind of the other, you know, more, more sports like that. So I was my dad's little gymnast, little Olympian from day

one. It was just ingrained in me from day one. So that's kind of the only sport I knew. And yeah, being called a little Olympian at a young age, you kind of know the path that's set out for you and your destiny. So yeah, I just started in artistic gymnastics, which is with the bars and the beam and the floor, you know, with the great Simone Biles that everyone knows is doing. And I did that for, you know, quite a few years, I was a little bit tall and flexible for, you know, an artistic gymnast. And so I had a lot of injuries at a young age, and I didn't really get up to speed too quickly with artistic, but I had some success, some medals, but I, it wasn't going to take me to the Olympics, that sport. And I was in Toronto growing up in Canada, competing for Canada and so forth. But my father grew ill from cancer when I was eight years old,

and he passed away very quickly within six months. So, you know, I lost a father, a coach, kind of my idol all in, you know, six months time. And it was just around that time, I was not doing very well in artistic gymnastics. So I switched to rhythmic gymnastics, which is the ribbons and the ball and the hoop. Oh, I love that stuff. If you've ever seen the movie Old School, you know, Will Ferrell, you know, he dances around the ribbon, a little bit more complicated than that. But yes, I switched to rhythmic gymnastics, you know, hesitantly. I didn't even know what the sport was. And, you know, dancing around the ribbons, I didn't think, you know, I think my father would roll over in his grave if he knew I'd

switched sports. But ultimately I made the switch and it was a much better fit for me physically and all of that. Obviously, you know, a lot of what happened in between that was a lot of struggles financially, right? My mom had three kids to support, you know, she was a nurse, we were living in British Columbia, we moved back to Toronto, it was a real struggle. We moved yearly, we live with different family members, my aunt, for one, and it was a really, really tough transitional time. I learned

a lot about having to work hard for everything you got at that point. I had to switch sports and work hard all from ground zero again. Every time we moved, I had to switch schools. Every time we moved, I was in a new house. I had to commute more all across Toronto. And I remember talking to my mom actually just last week about this. We would get up at 5 a.m. She'd drive me to the subway, I think Warden in Scarborough, and I would take it all the way across town to Dundas, take a power nap on my friend's couch, go all the way up to York Mills, take another bus. It was just, you know, growing up, struggling financially and just working hard and all

that really taught me a lot of life lessons. So that was definitely something I learned along the way. And with all that financial struggle, the Americans reached out and that's how it all kind of happened. I was the best rhythmic gymnast in North America at the time. I'd won a bunch of international competitions and I was ahead of, you know, the U S girl. So they said, you know, you typically only one North American qualifies for the Olympics. So with me being number one, I was competing for Canada, the US kind of reached out and was like, hey,

we know your father, he was a great gymnast in the US, we'd love for you to follow in his footsteps, compete for the US. And you know, we're happy to help out your mother financially and help pay for training and international competitions, my leotards, athlete funding. So the Canadian Federation at the time just wasn't supporting rhythmic gymnasts, especially. And I had to make the really tough choice. And I switched to compete for the U.S. And ultimately, I went to the Olympics in 2004 in Athens, Greece. So that's sort of my gymnastics career lives there.

Yeah, I'm curious, just going back to some of like the financial hardships, because even just thinking I know, when it comes to sports, but especially like at that kind of like professional level that can be expensive. And that can, you know, really, that's probably honestly why I never took a gymnastics classes because the money just was not there. And so you know, I got to just play on the Mikey bars in the playground instead. And so, you know, I got to just play on the Mikey bars in the playground instead. And so how, you know, before you were kind of given that opportunity that seemed kind of like life changing. Yeah. How did you kind of manage?

We didn't manage. I mean, you know, I talked about it in my book a lot. I was raking leaves with my brothers. I was shoveling snow just so, you know, we'd have money for food or, you know, just for anything. Like we, we had to move all the time and yeah, like, I don't know how my mother did it. A single salary with three kids. Like, it's just crazy. Of course. And then her trying to put me through sports and my brothers through their sports, you know, I think at the time she did so well masking it all. Like we never really knew how poor we were, but it was it was a really difficult time.

And of course, I'm going to school and hand me downs and Salvation Army clothes and everyone else in North York. Just this area I went to school was quite well off. So I was always kind of the odd one out, never really fit in. I just never really felt, you know, like I was in their class, I guess, you know, financial class. And then, of course, in gymnastics, I had hand-me-down leotards and things like that. I was always the one heading up a lot of fundraising because I was the one who needed the money most to travel international competitions. So growing up very humble in that sense, you know, just really knowing that success comes from hard work and there's really no shortcuts whatsoever in life.

I'm super grateful for those lessons I learned early on because every penny I make, I know I've worked hard for it and I didn't get handed any favors in life. So, yeah, I mean, making that switch to the U.S. is one of the hardest decisions of my life. I was labeled a traitor from that point on. It was something I had to do for my family, not only to follow in my father's footsteps. And I met so many people who knew him going that direction. So I felt like it just opened up this new world that I didn't even know was out there. But sometimes with great choices for yourself means that not everyone's going to be happy for you. I mean, and I think that's it. I mean, I think in life, you have to make choices that are good for you and you understand them and you're at peace with them, even if it doesn't make other people happy. Definitely a lesson I learned along the way there. For sure. So when you were able to make that transition to the US, and I'm curious just kind of about kind of the money side of gymnastics, I, you know, just like following other sports like tennis, you know, if you win certain games, you get a certain amount of prize money. How does that work with gymnastics?

Do you get a cash prize if you get a medal or, you know, what's I guess the financial incentive to do well? Right. I know. I think nowadays things are a bit better. Right. There's social media. There's endorsements. You know, you can kind of be your own publicist. Right. I know. I think nowadays things are a bit better, right? There's social media, there's endorsements, you know, you can kind of be your own publicist, right? In my day of 2004, social media wasn't too present. So I sometimes think, oh, what if I was me now in sport, right? But the sports evolved so much, like maybe I wouldn't even have made the Olympics, but basically to make money as a rhythmic gymnast,

right? There's Grand Prix competitions, you can go and if you, you know, you get on the podium, it's a Grand Prix competition, you get an amount. But that money often goes to your coach, to your next competition, it doesn't really go to you. Like we're definitely not paid like a tennis US Open winner. Like, definitely not. You know, I think artistic gymnastics, like the small vials of the sport and all those other amazing gymnasts, very well deserved with their endorsements and all their partnerships because they're top of the podium and have been for many, many years. Rhythmic gymnastics, on the other hand, is an Eastern European dominated sport.

So we had to fight for every place we had and being top 10 was the goal, right? We weren't really ever expecting to be on a podium. So that's where the struggle comes for athletes, not just rhythmic gymnasts, but athletes in sports that aren't so well known. And, you know, if your country hasn't been on top of the podium for a while, they struggle because the funding's not there because the results aren't there. But then how do you get to the top of the podium without the funding? Yeah, you need to have the money. I've seen so many documentaries about sports and it really is like you have an edge if you have funding. And a lot of people who are so talented, they just don't get that those opportunities or, you know, if you come for money, it's a lot easier to to kind of accelerate things like that. So what were you able to do to kind of, yeah,

keep things moving along? Like, was it really like once you got to the Olympics, things really took a big change? So definitely, I was a two time Canadian champion, two time American champion. So things, I started to improve, you know, it's terrible, but like, I when I switched to me for the US, I got in way better shape. I was climbing in the rankings much quicker. I was traveling the world without a care in the world that it was draining my mom's bank account, they would put me up at the Lake Placid Olympic Training Center or the Colorado Olympic Training Center, you're training around other athletes all going through what you're going through. So you have like such a great emotional support. Of course, everything improved. You know, money does make things better

and it makes things easier, fortunately, even in sports. So once I started receiving the funding, I could then really focus my efforts on my routines on the goal. I didn't have to be like, well, how can I go make a few extra dollars to help my mom? Like when I'm exhausted on my spare time, you know, you're able to focus on the goal at hand. And I was so blessed to have that opportunity two years before the Olympics, just to be able to focus on my sport. And I graduated from high school a year before the Olympics. So I was just narrowed in and that's all I had to focus on. Pressure was relieved from my mom and, you know, I could sleep better at night. Yeah. And so once you did the Olympics, and I also I'm just curious,

like once you kind of reached that level, you know, what's next? I always kind of wonder, it's like, I'm sure people are like, so are you going to your next Olympics? You're like, I was just there, like, give me a break, or, you know, how do you determine your kind of, because I guess every sport, especially gymnastics, that's so hard on your body, it has kind of a certain time that you can do it in your life, and then a certain point that you just can't, it's maybe just not healthy for your body. So were you starting to kind of think about that while you were in it is I have this many years to reach this height, and then I have to figure out what's next. The life of a gymnast, at least in my day, especially a rhythmic gymnast is short, right? I was 18 when I competed at the Olympics, and I turned 19 the day I competed. And that was the peak of my career.

And that was it. There was no thought in my mind I'd stick around for another four years, none whatsoever. The final year leading up to the Olympics for me was extremely difficult. I was in Bulgaria training alone, not with a lot of teammates or with teammates who didn't speak English. And I think just, I think every professional athlete or Olympic athlete leading up to that peak of their career is just exhausted mentally and physically, which I was. And I just, I knew that was it. I wanted to compete at the Olympics and nail my routines. I wasn't competing for the podium. It was just very clear. I finished 15th at the Olympics. I was actually ninth, I think, going into the Olympics.

But, you know, things happen in politics, all that good stuff. But yeah, like I just wanted to have a great competition and finish on a high note. And that was my goal. And that's what happened. I competed in Athens. My mom came to watch me. It was one of her first competitions internationally she could come to. My uncle and aunt bought her a ticket.

So that was super special. And I was so done after that. My last routine, I hit four routines and I just did the biggest fist pump. Cause I was like, thank God. Thanks to my dad looking down on me. I accomplished that little Olympian goal and I'm done, right?

And I was just going to go be normal. I was going to go do what everyone tells you to do, go to university. I got accepted to Western university in London. I was going to go live with one of my friends and do a general arts degree and figure out what I was going to do with my life later. I just wanted to be normal and like eat a burger. Yeah. But yeah, so I left gymnastics right there in Athens. That was it. But then USA Gymnastics approached me for it's kind of like a stars on ice, but it's called USA Gymnastics tour. So you go on tour for three months, you're a rock star and you make money. Nice. You know, you're paid a good amount per show. So that was the first sort of dose making good money for me.

And I just knew I wanted more of it. It, you know, it helped me buy my first investment property. And then while I was on that tour, Cirque du Soleil scouted me. And yeah, they actually watched me compete in Athens at the Olympics. And I didn't even know. And then they came to my tour, took me to go see the show in Vegas called O, which is the water show. It's like unbelievable. And I saw the show. And then when it was done, I just looked at the, you know, the, the recruiter and I said,

all right, where do I sign? So right then and there, while I was on this gymnastics tour, I signed up for Cirque du Soleil for the next two and a half years and ran away to the circus. Amazing. I didn't go to university. I didn't become normal. I just ran away to the circus. Yes. I mean, that sounds way more fun than going to university. Yeah, exactly. And I, I'm so grateful for it because I've seen a lot of athletes really struggle, like coming off the Olympic stage, coming off, like, not even the Olympic stage, like the world champion stage, like the highest level of your sport. And then what do you do next? Because that's all you focused on your whole life. Yeah. And I guess there's no one to really support you because it's like, you're not involved anymore. So, you know,

we're on to the next person. That's right. And you, you lose your sense of worth, your identity. I've seen it so many times. And I had a lot of that throughout my career. I think I was lucky to go into Cirque du Soleil. And it was just less of a shock, I think, to the system. I was still physical, using my body, performing, you get that adrenaline. So I had that for about the next 10 years of my life, touring with Cirque du Soleil. So that was really great. I went on to create some solo acts and tour Europe and it was amazing. The one thing I didn't love was the repetition, right?

The exact same show every single day. It just felt very much like the Groundhog Day I'd lived my whole life as a gymnast. Same routines every day, same thing to eat every day. So I love Cirque du Soleil. I think it's an incredible platform for athletes to transition into after sport. I just knew I didn't want to be like 75 and a clown. So I had to figure out something to do. Yeah. And how were you able to do that? Because again, it's, you know, there's such a connection or, you know, it seems like a very natural transition from gymnastics to Cirque du Soleil. You're like, oh, great. I don't really have to learn any new skill. I mean, sure, you had to learn new skills, but you're like, I already know kind of how to do lots of this. Once that's over, there's not really too many places you can go with, you know, they're like, we're looking for your exact skill set. So what were what were your, you know, kind of thoughts on like, oh, shoot, now what? Exactly. Like, that was my biggest fear. I'm just like, I did the Olympics now, why do I have to like, constantly start over in my life, right? Every single part of my life,

I'm just constantly starting over to like ground zero, artistic to rhythmic to the Olympics to Cirque, it's just like always starting back at Ground Zero. Cirque was great at the time. They had an education program that paid 50% of your schooling. So if you were to study online, they'd pay for half of it. So, you know, I started ditching the after parties and things like that. And I would just go back to my hotel room and I was studying public relations online at the time. Yeah. so I got a PR certificate. So that was great. And it really helped me after Cirque, I had to do a bunch of desk jobs, I worked in recruitment, and I was just trying to build a resume outside of what my physical body would do. So that's what I kind of did. I just

bounced around with desk jobs here and there. Then I'd fly to Dubai and do a special event for Cirque, come back, have to get a new job because I just left for a week and had no job anymore. So I bounced around a lot just with desk jobs. And it was a lonely time, I'd say, because I was so miserable. And just like coming down from such a like high, like doing these things that people could only imagine doing. And then you're just working a desk job and it's like people have no idea. You know, you're like, I used making very good money in my early 20s. Then in my late 20s, it's having to turn my career around to like the more admin and really build like the normal career. And it was just shocking. Like it was depressing. I was not motivated.

It was a really tough time. And again, yeah, no one cares if you're at the Olympics. No one cares if you're in Cirque. It's where you are now. And so I just had to work really hard and kind of climb my way up and figure out what was next did you find it difficult to kind of shift how you manage money because you know the income just kind of dropped compared to your early 20s and how did you and well I'm even curious like being exposed to like a really big paycheck in your early 20s because you usually get people into trouble they just spend it like how did you know

what to do how to manage it was it Was it largely because of the upbringing you had, not knowing the value of a dollar? Yeah. I think how I was raised, not having a lot of money and valuing every penny I had taught me so much that really spilled into my 20s. Because when I was starting out at Cirque du Soleil, making money or on the gymnastics tours, I was saving every penny. I wasn't blowing it. A lot of acrobats, you know, we do six weeks of shows, have one week off, go to the next city. In that week off, they fly all inclusive, go somewhere and party for the week, come back and blown like three weeks of pay. And I would never do that. I would just go to the next city,

work on my schooling because Cirque paid my hotel, they paid my food, they pay everything. You're literally just living and eating for free and working for them. So it's an amazing opportunity to save money. And I think just because of how I was raised, that was the mentality I had. I was not gonna blow my previous week's paycheck. No way.

I just like to see the numbers growing in my bank account. So that was definitely a priority. And then switching from that world of everything's paid for, like I had no mortgage, I had no food bills, like it was crazy. And then I went into the normal world and I'm paying rent and I'm having to grocery shop. Like, what is this? Like, it sounds bizarre, but like having to grocery shop, I just like couldn't get over it and cook. And I, yeah, like even prices for groceries, I just didn't understand in my early twenties. So it was a huge adjustment. Um, hated it, to be honest. I just wanted to get back to making a lot of money. Yeah. And then it's funny enough, I was working in a recruitment job, recruiting high level executives for CEOs and this and that. I had supported a lot of executives at Cirque du Soleil. And so it was very fitting. It was going well. And I saw this job posting. it was just super vague. Didn't even know the

company was, I was like, what is this? So I sent my own resume just to get. Oh, you're allowed to do that or I did. You did. I recruited myself just to get more information on it. Yeah. And then they called me and I had, that was kind of the start of another stage of my life. I just took a leap of faith and, and somehow I got a call for an EA job. So that's kind of where I am at now. And, and then working in entertainment and that. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your, your new career. Cause again, I feel like this is, you know, connected to kind of, you know, again, your roots in circuit and being an entertainer, but now you're kind of on the other side of it. You know,

what is your new role entail? And did you find that a lot of, yeah, the skills that you got, you know, from your past gymnast in Cirque have really come in handy? Just kind of a weird full circle that, you know, I mean, I'm the same way. I went to film school and I'm doing something completely different, but there's lots of bits and pieces like, oh, I learned that my past life and this is really handy now. Oh, absolutely. I think it's amazing how you can have so many different stages of your life. However, they all kind of were meant to be part of your journey and come together in the end. So, yeah, I recruited myself into working for Robert Herjavec from Shark Tank and Dragon's Den. And I actually, I'd never watched the show. I had no idea who he was. Didn't really care to be honest.

It was a good paying job and yeah. And I've been working for him for 10 years and traveling the world, working very hard. I started out as his EA and now I'm the VP of entertainment for Hergic Ventures Entertainment and Pictures. So we do everything. We do Shark Tank, Dragon's Den, Creative Direction, Content Creation, just basically everything in entertainment. And it's funny because I'll be at an event with Robert and I kind of know everyone and he'll be like, who are you? Who are you? Like, how do you know these people? And it's funny, it's because all my worlds are colliding, right? All my production stage

world at Cirque's colliding or, you know, athletes, like when we were on Dancing with the Stars, when Robert was on that, and he met his wife, Kim, I knew half the stars on the show, because a lot of them were gymnasts or Red Fu. I performed with Red Fu on my tour. I just kind of knew everyone. And he still just he could never get over like, how do you know these people? Like, yeah, you're you're like you work for me anyway. So I think it's just funny how life works out and it just comes full circle all the time. And yeah, I think if ever we're on a path and we're just like,

what am I doing? Like, I think everything's just meant to be, we just got to trust the process. Now, you know, especially with all your experience now, when you do look at maybe aspiring athletes or even younger athletes, can you see, especially because you mentioned like you handle like, you know, content creation, just the entertainment side of things. What are some things that young people should be taking these opportunities that you know, you're like, I didn't have that opportunity, social media was not around. And man, if I did, I would be doing this. I'm not sure like, I don't know if like social media would have played such a big impact in my life. I mean, it definitely does now. And I think it can really be overwhelming

and a little bit overpowering, just the amount of impact social media has. I think I had to work extra hard for any success or, or any direction I was going. I had to work extra hard to get there. But I do think for, you know, athletes growing up today, I just, you know, I think it's so important in your sport, but it's also so important to look for the future and what you want to do after sport. Like what are your interests? Because we can become so, you know, one-sided when we're in sport and very competitive. And that's what I see with athletes today, which I think is amazing. Like they're involved in so many other things, but their sport. And so it's very good for mental health. And it's very good just for motivation that they have other passions and other interests

and other means of support besides just their gymnastics career or anything like that. I think that's what was lacking for me in my career. I was so focused. That was the only thing going on in my life. So it can just be like overwhelming and overpowering. So I do think that it's really important for athletes today to have other interests and kind of know where they're going to go after sport or at least have an idea of an interest they like and can sort of explore that as they're a gymnast so it's not such a cold turkey transition right after yeah because it

took me my entire 20s to figure out kind of what was next. I did Cirque and then I did a bunch of other jobs. And then I started in my current role now at 29, turning 30. So, you know, it's been a real transition, but it took a little while to get there. And a lot of bumps in the road, a lot of heartbreaks and figuring out who I was. Like I think as an athlete, sometimes you just don't even know yourself. You're only, you're Mary the gymnast and that's all, you know, you don't actually know who you are. And I think we have to be patient with ourself and let ourselves mess up or go on the wrong

path and then get back to the straight and narrow. But yeah, I think, I think, yeah, that's important just to have other interests beyond your sport. Did you find it was difficult transitioning from such a um kind of unique workplace in your past life to corporate kind of office life because even you know for me just going transitioning from university to like you know the nine to five office life that was like kind of shocking like oh is this how you know because i used to only just like work retail part time jobs. And that was kind of shocking, just how to navigate that. What was that kind of your experience as well? It was so hard. I started working with Robert in 2015. And I was still

doing little gigs on the side. Because again, I like to make money. And I never want to rely on anyone for money. I never want to go through what my mom went through with us. So money has always been a huge drive for me. So I would never just do one job. I had always had multiple sources of income throughout my life, you know, even as a kid, like raking, snow plowing, you know, like 20 pounds. But yeah. So I think multiple sources of income always kept me going. So even working with Robert, I still was doing one-off little gigs for Cirque or like freelance jobs on the side. So as I was working for Robert, USA Gymnastics asked me to creative direct their 2016 post-Olympic tour and perform in it. And Robert let me do it. So I had to do that tour and work for Robert at the same time. So I worked like 20 hours a day. It was absolutely

nuts. Yeah, crazy. I don't recommend that to anyone. But you know, I made a lot of money. And I was happy that I bought my, my dream condo. So that was really exciting for me. Yeah, so it was so nice. Robert's let me do it. But I had a near death fall on the tour. Oh, yeah. Oh, we never really talked about injuries. That's usually the thing. Or whenever you think about sports, they think about, like, you know, football players. And they're like, oh, my gosh, this is my ticket out of my small town. I'm going to make it.

And then their first season, they get injured, and that's it. Yeah. Yeah, it's awful. And obviously, I was out of shape because I'd been working for Robert for a year. And I'm, like, going on this tour. I'm creating a two-and-a-half-hour half hour live arena show, 40 state tour across all of America. And I'm performing in it. I'm designing the costumes.

I'm picking the music, everything. So it was a huge undertaking, but loved it. But yeah, I was doing a dress rehearsal. I was flying up in the silks, which is like, you know, if you've seen a circus show, it's like the curtain that hangs. So I was flying in the silk and I was doing this skill where I slide down and then catch myself in the splits with no hands. And I was directing the winch operator upside down. I was being a director while performing, which you can't do that. You have to do one or the other, like perform or be a director.

And I was doing both and I fell 20 to 25 feet on my head oh my god upside down no safety nothing and yeah I just remember laying there laying like looking up and then just lots of faces right they come and swarm you and I mean I had a massive concussion talk about a lot in my book I hid it from everyone because you know that's what you do when you're a director and you got to be professional and I couldn't see my left eye for quite some time. And yeah. So at that moment I was like, I think I'm good to retire from your party. Now I might die. Yeah. I think it took, unfortunately, something like that happening to me to realize you know what if I'm not gonna

give this my 100% like anything in life you have to give 100% to be successful I it's time to like hang up my flying equipment so that was the dress rehearsal and I had to get through 40 shows and do a very successful tour which we did and it went, you know, it was one of the most successful tours of USA Gymnastics history. After that last show, I just, you know, was like, thank God. And this is it. I hung up my aerial equipment for good, went back to working with Robert end of 2016, 2017. I never looked back to performing. I think it, you know, life's full of these opportunities that give you that opportunity to close that door and move on to the next. And we like to open it and peek sometimes, but you have to just continue moving forward, you know, constant forward momentum. And I was kind of just one foot in, one foot out.

And that was the moment where I knew I had to just retire. And I was totally happy to be in the corporate world and sit at my desk every day. And you mentioned this earlier that and I mean, I think everyone, every level of their job kind of struggles with this, but that, you know, when you're a gymnast, when you were in circuit, it was part of your identity. And, you know, having to close that door on that life is a big shift to your identity. How was that? Because I know a lot of people, even just working nine to five, you know, when I used to, that was part of my identity. I was, you know, worked at this job. This is my role. This was the company. And when I quit, it was really hard for me to figure out who, wait, who am I without that? So how were you able to kind of overcome that and maybe even make a disconnect between I am not my job? You know, this is just part of me. It's it's very hard to figure out your identity when you've been so good at one thing, or you've really like wowed in one area to close it and having to start over again and move on. It's scary. It's, it's a huge risk, but I don't think we, we achieve our potential by not challenging ourself and not constantly pushing forward for that next accomplishment. Great. I went to the Olympics.

Cool. In 20 years, no one cares. Cool. I went to LA. Like, yeah, I'm not on stage anymore. That's great. And I think even now, like, you know, Robert's an amazing person to work for. It's incredible. But I have my own life. I got remarried and I have two kids now. And they're my priority, especially my kids. You know, our jobs can be so overconsuming. Only recently after I wrote my book and all this stuff and done a lot of passion projects for myself that I'm like, that's stressful. And what is going on today with this meeting? But it's kind of like, that's my job. I'm going to leave that there. And I'm just going to go be present with my kids right now. Obviously it's easier said than done, but I do struggle with that really

pulling myself away from my career and my personal life. But it's so important to fill the tank. My mom always says this. I was getting really burnt out and really stressed. And it's because all I was doing was working 24 seven for someone else. And I wasn't doing anything for myself, right? I wasn't making money on the side for myself that I always was doing in my previous life. And I was only doing the one job focusing on that. And you can't, you have to focus on yourself, even one hour a day, you have to do something for yourself for one hour. And that can be anything. It doesn't have to make you money, it just has to fill your tank, whatever that is, you have to do it every day and prioritize yourself. And that's what I'm trying. I've been

getting better at that. COVID. Yeah, I mean, I think yeah, COVID kind of messed a lot of people up where it's like, well, all there is to do is work. I'll just open my laptop and just, you know, put in a few more hours. But no, I think that's such an important message. And I like that the filling up your tank, because I think especially just like in our culture, which is just really promoted that, you know, hustle, hustle, hustle for so long. I think a lot of us have hustled for a long time, then we're like, we've lost track of why we're even doing it, we're just on autopilot. And then when you have like a maybe a life altering moment, or just have finally some space to think, then you can kind of step back, you're like, Whoa, where am I? And who am I? And what am I doing this for? Right? Absolutely. And I had those moments kind of

throughout all my career, like in gymnastics, I'm just like, Oh, my God, when is this gonna end? Same thing as an insert. It's like, same God, when is this going to end? And the same thing is then in Cirque, it's like same show. You're just showing up every day, doing the same thing every day, doing the same thing. And then one day you have to stop and be like, hold on a second. I'm just going through the grind. Like, why am I doing this? And that's when you make decisions to close that door and move on to the next one. I love my job now because it's ever evolving. It's never the same every day, but I wrote a book, but I'm doing all these other projects on the side. I'm doing little things here and there that, you know,

will get me places that my day job won't. Yeah. Right. And I think, yeah, we have to believe in ourself because no one else will. If you don't push yourself, you have to be your biggest fan. And whatever that goal is, if you like painting, if you like working out, if whatever, you know, I think we just really have to like, yes, we have to pay our bills. Yes,

we have to make ends meet and, you know, live the life we're supposed to live. But everyone has a dream and everyone has a goal and hope. We have to hope for something. If you're not hoping for what's next, then we're really being stagnant. And I think in our daily lives. Absolutely. Now, the last thing I just want to touch on, because I forgot to ask is, I think earlier, you mentioned that, you know, when you started making money in your early 20s, that you bought your first rental property, and just kind of going back to this idea of, you were really focused on I never want to be in a position like my mom and growing up, I want to do better for me and also my family. So what have you been able to kind of set up in your life and your family to reach that level of

financial security? And also maybe, you know, what are some things that you want to show your kids so they can kind of take those lessons with them when they grow up? Right. I think what's really important for me is that everything I've achieved or I have is I worked for it. I was never handed a dollar in my life. So when I did go on that first tour, and I think I saved 25 grand or something, I was able to put down a deposit for my first rental townhouse in Mississauga here in Toronto. So that was a huge accomplishment for me. And I held on to that rental for about 10 years. And so that was kind of a good step in the right direction. I love property. I'm not great at the stocks. I'm not great at all of that. But property, I understand

it's physical. That's the one investment strategy that I've always believed in. And it's really worked for me. So I had a townhouse. So then I bought my mom a condo because she was really struggling and was going through a second marriage at the time. I bought her a condo and then I was on tour. And then I bought myself a condo downtown. Yeah. And then what's really helped me is refinancing those properties, getting to the next stage. So I've refinanced, I think that condo three or four times now, but it's gotten me to my forever home now that I'm in with my kids and I've been able to refinance again, get a cottage in Masega. And, you know, I've just been very blessed in the real estate world and it's a risk I'm willing to take. I think everyone has a certain like risk threshold, which is totally, you know, you're professional at that.

But, you know, my husband's all into stocks and all this stuff. And I'm like, that's too much risk for me. I don't, I can't just hope and pray it's a good day on the stock market. Like I can't do that, but I can buy a house tomorrow. No problem. So I think everyone just kind of has their, you know, investment threshold. So that's what's really helped me. And I wonder if it's because I moved all the time as a young age that I just want to buy as many properties as possible. So if one fails, I'm always going to have a home.

Like, I don't know if subconsciously that's... Oh, definitely. There's some stuff from your childhood that's like, I need stability. So I'm going to buy property. A hundred percent. That makes sense. I just realized that on this podcast, Jess, you just totally helped me see that. Thank you. Yeah. I'm like, why don't you buy homes? That's why. It's really therapeutic. But yeah, so that I think, and, and again, I'm buying all these places with my own money. And I think that's something I want to teach my kids. you know, you work hard for what you have, like, I will help you, I will support you in anything you want to do. But you have to work hard for your own goals. I'm not going to hand you anything. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, as I can clearly see with all your medals, it's, it's it and also you

get that really great sense of accomplishment and you know value within yourself which i think is you know almost priceless so you can't teach you can't teach certain things um some things are just learned right yeah you have to go through them you have to experience them and and take them with you well i'm i'm so you know it was such a pleasure having you on the show and again you do have a book that I think everyone should check out just to get more details. Where can more people find information about your book, Nine Lives by 35? It's available wherever books are sold.

Great. And where can people, I guess, follow you if they want to just follow, you know, you on Instagram or your website? Yeah, absolutely. I'm on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. Definitely happy to, you know, if I can help anyone in their life, I think that's part of why I wrote my book. I think, you know, it's all part of a journey and we all have our own story and journey. And if I can help one person reading my book, just to kind of help them find that next path or reinvent their life,

I'm just giving that encouragement. I'm all yours to help. Yeah. And as you've proven, it's, you know, life is long and you're going to reinvent yourself a few times and that's okay. It is okay. Even if no one agrees or no one likes it, do it for you. Exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you so much, Mary, for taking the time. It was a pleasure having you on. Thank you so much, Jessica. Thank you. And that was episode 380 with Mary Sanders. Make sure to check her out at marysanders.ca. You can also follow her on Instagram and Twitter at marysanders85. I will link to everything, including an easy way to buy her new book, Nine Lives by 35. In the show notes for this episode, just go to

jessicamorehouse.com slash 380 or 3-8-0. And if you want to find the show notes for any episode that you ever listened to, two ways you can go about it, you can go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast. Or if you know the number of the episode, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 380. Just have a few things I want to share with you. So do not go away. Do you want to figure out where your money is going? Do you want to organize your finances once and for all? Do you want to feel less anxious about your money? Well, I have a great tool for you, my collection of budget spreadsheets, which you can find at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. These new and improved budget spreadsheets have helped thousands of people over the years. And these are honestly the budget spreadsheets that

me and my husband still use today. They come in Google Sheets and Excel. They also come with a comprehensive video tutorial to show you exactly how it works. And they're very easy to use. Not only that, I've got versions for pretty much any scenario. So if you're an employee, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. If you are self-employed, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. If you're in a couple and one of you is an employee and one of you is self-employed, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. I've got seven different budget spreadsheets for any kind of situation. So no matter what's going on in your life and your income, I've got a budget spreadsheet for you. So if you want to take action and see some progress with your finances, this is one really easy step that

you can take right after listening to this episode. Just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop, find the right budget spreadsheet for you, and then start making some moves that future you will be really, really thankful for. All right, first and most importantly, to win a copy of her book or to enter to win a copy of all of the books that have been featured on this season of the More Money Podcast, make sure to go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. That has all the books on there. You could enter to win all of them. And then I will be drawing winners at the end of this season, likely, probably early January, quite honestly, because we're probably

going to run this season until, you know, right up to the end of December, right before Christmas time. So JessicaMorninghouse.com slash contest is where you can find all of that stuff. What else do I have to tell you? Gosh, it has been a very busy time for me. Not that I'm complaining. I love a busy fall. Let's, you know, I'm always just like, what is the last quarter of the year going to look like? And it's always a big surprise. But yeah, I've been doing a little bit more speaking and, you know, more brand work, which has been really great. And of course, the book is still, I'm still writing away. It is killing me softly, but it's happening and can't wait for it to be done. But I am going to feel like a rock star after finishing this because

it is the hardest thing I think I've probably ever done. Not that it's hard to write exactly, it's just mentally taxing. I've complained about writing the book on lots of these episodes, so you probably already have an idea. But yeah, so that is what I've been up to this fall. And yeah, it's been time. It's been a time. But I'm really excited to tease next week's episode. I have, and if you follow me on Instagram, then you already know. And make sure to follow me on Instagram. You can do so in two ways. My account, my main account is at Jessica I'm Warehouse. But also I have an account that just promotes the, you know, and has the kind of clips of the podcast. If you go to at more money podcast, you can also follow the Instagram of the podcast there.

But a little while ago, I shared a photo that I took with Adrian Barr. If you are a fan of YouTube and, you know, maybe you follow me on YouTube. I also have a YouTube channel. I got to know Adrian. Gosh, I actually don't remember. I think we probably were invited to the same event. And that's how we kind of bumped into each other. But he runs the YouTube channel, very popular, called Canadian in a t shirt. He does Canadian personal finance, and he lives in Toronto. And so he came to my house, and I did a live interview with him, which was very fun. And yeah, I haven't done a live interview in years, probably, I don't know,

2018 or something like that. So I've got Adrian Barr on the show next week. And we talk about Canadian personal finance, his investing philosophy, talk about being an influencer, content creator in the personal finance space and how to navigate that and so much more. So you're going to love next week's episode. But yeah, I think that's really all I've got for now. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Shout out to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout, and I will see you back here next Wednesday. this podcast is distributed by the women in media podcast network find out more at women in media.network