More Money Podcast - 386 How This Wall Street Trader Became a Millionaire in Only 2 Years - Vivian Tu, Author of Rich AF and Founder of Your Rich BFF

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

It's the Season 17 finale and to wrap up yet another incredible season, I've got Vivian Tu of on the show to share her journey of being raised by immigrant parents, getting into an elite university to make her parents proud, becoming the lone woman of colour Wall Street trader on her team, then leaving it all for the world of Tiktok to become one of the most followed finfluencers who's been able to amass a net worth north of a million dollars in only two years. Oh, and did I mention she also has a new book coming out (that you can enter to win!) called ? As someone who has been a financial educator and influencer for close to 12 years, it was so fascinating for me to learn how Vivian was able to skyrocket into online popularity during the height of Covid while sticking to her Wall Street roots by making sure to educate her young following about the key things they should know about money and building wealth while staying true to her values. The podcast will be on break for January but expect to see Season 18 in February so I can finish writing my own book that will be out next winter! For full episode show notes visit: https://jessicamoorhouse.com/386 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. This is your host, Jessica Morehouse, episode 386, and the season finale for season 17. That's right. This is the last episode for this season. I'm going to take a little bit of a break in January, and then we will resume the podcast at some point. I don't know what the date is yet. I'm not sure if it's going to be mid-January, late January, early February. That is TBD. But until then, let's talk about our final guest of the season. For today's season finale episode, I have Vivian Tu on the show. She's the founder and CEO of Your Rich BFF. You may have already seen some of her content or clips of her content on TikTok or YouTube or Instagram, where she is, you know, for the Gen Z voice for personal finance education,

which is really exciting. And, you know, she doesn't come from this world from nowhere. She actually used to work on Wall Street and was a trader and, you know, then worked at BuzzFeed for a little bit, honing her kind of marketing and business skills. And in 2021, she left everything to do this full time. And now she has a book out called Rich AF, The Winning Money Mindset That Will Change Your Life that is coming out this December. And we are going to be talking

about her journey because it's pretty incredible. There's not too many people in this world that go viral and build an audience of, gosh, I don't know, 6 million and counting, I think. And she's reached 30 under 30 for the social media category in Forbes and is also one of their top listed creators. She's been able to achieve quite a bit in just a few short years, quite honestly. And so we dive into all that. How did it happen? How does one go viral?

But not just that, how does one then use this new kind of platform and educate and also build a sustainable business, a business that's going to last? Or if not last, what are some financial things that she's doing so she'll be okay even if Instagram ceases to be a thing or TikTok stops being a thing? So we've got some really interesting things to discuss in this episode. I know you're going to love it. I thought it was very interesting as a finfluencer myself. So without further ado, let's get to that interview. But before I get to that interview, I want to share a little bit more information about my online course that you may not even know about, but it's been around for almost three years called Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians. It's a

course I built specifically with you Canadian listers in mind who want to learn how to do passive investing like I've been talking about for years on the show. If you want to get rich slowly, invest for the long term, you don't want to day trade or dabble in something speculative like cryptocurrency or some hot stocks that you find online. You just want to make sure you can retire one day or, you know, save enough for buying a home. And this course can help you. It is specifically about all the fundamentals you need to know about investing as a Canadian. But then I also show you how to build a strategic investment plan and then how to invest in your own portfolio by way of

either using a robo-advisor or doing it on your own from scratch. There's lots of worksheets and calculators and spreadsheets that you will not find anywhere else on the internet, hence why I had to build them myself, but also get lifetime access as well as access to the private Facebook group, my monthly Q&A sessions for students, a private email you can contact me with,

and you also get a private one-on-one session with me when you finish the course as well. There are so many benefits to the course, so I highly recommend going to jessicamorehouse.com slash course to find more information and to apply. Again, that's jessicamorehouse.com slash course to learn more and to apply. Welcome Vivian to the More Money Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me. You're so welcome. So you've got your first book coming out and you have had quite the quite the few years, I guess.

I'd like to kind of start at the beginning because it is a pretty incredible story. Not really an overnight story because it's been several years, but still a very kind of quick rise and shift, I guess, in terms of what you were previously doing in your last career. So let's kind of start with, you know, I know you used to work on Wall Street and then you worked at BuzzFeed, and then you made the choice to be, hey, let's try social media and TikTok as my thing, my new business. Let's go back to your previous career as a trader. Was that kind of, you know, this was my path,

this is what I wanted to do. And then the reality sets in, you're like, this is hell. Well, maybe not hell, But that is like literally the story here from lots of other people who used to work in finance. So so to get into that, I have to kind of give you the context. On a cold winter's day, I was but no, I'm just kidding. But you know, I grew up to two Chinese immigrant parents who had lived through their parents, you know, suffering through the communist revolution. They come to America as immigrants in their 20s. I'm their only daughter. In my household, there was this massive emphasis placed on education, on reading, on being smart. Like,

that really felt like the way to climb the socioeconomic ladder. And for my parents, it was always about survival because they didn't have an abundance of anything. They were, you know, they could hardly speak the language. So the messaging to me was always like, be a good student. And so that's what I did. I was the valedictorian of my high school. Yes, it is still on my LinkedIn. I am very proud of that fact. But, you know, I get into the University of Chicago, which I believe is like right now, like the top three university in the country. It is incredibly competitive. I remember walking into that school thinking I was so smart and I was very quickly

humbled. Turns out when you're being graded against someone who has won a Pulitzer as a, you know, 18 year old, like your grades are not going to be as good as theirs. Understood. And for me, getting a job on wall street felt like the next iteration of that dream, right? So like in high school, I did the education thing and I got the college thing and then I worked hard to get the internship thing. And then finally the internship turned into a full-time job and career in this coveted, exclusive club where everyone is known to make a ton of money, live a wonderful life. You know, this was my parents' American dream. This was, frankly, mine because I had been told that this is how I could reach that pinnacle of success.

And I'll be honest, I bought into it hard. For the first year and a half. I will say I was so lucky. I had the best manager. She was super tough. She was the only other woman on the team, but she was fair and she treated me well. And I also definitely bought into the glitz and glamor, you know, like I was getting to sit in a suite to go watch the red hot chili peppers with a client. I was being taken out to these steakhouses where, you know, I was being fed dinners that I certainly could not personally afford. And it was really fun for a little bit. I learned a lot and I felt really good, but eventually the head of my desk got canned and that happens on wall street when there's

management shakeups. And what ended up happening is the new boss came in, fired half of the team. So imagine me coming in bright eyed, bushy tail thinking like I'm signing up to work with a very specific set of people who were my mentors during my internship, who liked me, who obviously liked me enough to give me the return offer. I was excited to be around these people. And suddenly overnight, literally overnight, 50% were gone. And new boss brings in a ton of new people. And I shouldn't even say people, ton of new guys, his boys. And the culture of the team and how I felt secure in terms of security at work shifted within that same time span. He found out that prior to my internship and my full-time offer as a trader, I had spent a summer in commercial banking. So

I knew my way around an Excel sheet. And that's typically not a skill that you need or really have as a trading analyst. But he was like, oh, if you have that skill, like, do you want to come work for my soon to be right hand man, like he's gonna be working on some really cool new projects. And when the head of the desk, the new big head honcho asked you that question, it's not a question. It's a do you want to keep your job? And I said, Of course, I'd be happy to more than happy to. And that's the beginning of the end. Because once I ended up switching over to work for that guy, it felt like I couldn't do anything right. Suddenly, I had gone from

super like, my manager's manager, when I first started at JP Morgan, he was just this old school town guy. And he would say, he would say like, okay, rock star, like, okay, superstar. When you go from having a nickname, that's superstar or rock star to suddenly, okay, superstar. When you go from having a nickname that's superstar or rock star to suddenly being the person who messes everything up or can't seem to do anything right, you really look internally and you're like, is there something wrong with me? Like what happened? And this guy would lean on me to basically cover for him, do all his work, which I recognized was something I was going to have to do for my seniors. Like you cut your teeth in a certain way you have to. But on top of that, I would say he was like really, really just like a walking HR violation, saying things like

you're too girly to be here. He didn't like how, you know, my nails click clacked on the keyboard. He didn't like just who I was, how I identified, like there were things about me that he didn't like that I wasn't ever going to fundamentally be able to change. That had nothing to do with your, your role, your job. Nothing to do with my intelligence, nothing to do with my ability to do the job. And the straw that broke the camel's back was I came into work one day with a long cardigan on and he looked at me, he touched his hands together and he bowed and he said, Ooh, is that a kimono? And just, I could feel my face getting hot. And it's one of those situations where like a lump develops in your throat. And I wanted to have,

you know, I always think I'm like the type of person who has like a cool, good comeback for everything. But this was a situation where I thought of the cool, you know, I always think I'm like the type of person who has like a cool, good comeback for everything. But this is a situation where I thought of the cool, good comeback like eight hours later in the shower when I was crying. Yeah, like George Costanza in the car. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know what to say. And it became abundantly clear to me that aside from just like the abuse I was taking at work, like this guy was never, ever going to be in the back room,

pounding the table for me to get paid, pounding the table for me to get a raise, pounding the table, you know, or sorry, for me to get promoted. He just was never going to advocate for me. And if your manager isn't going to advocate for you and they're the person who decides what you make and how your career progresses, I knew I was at a dead end. So I had to leave. Did you find, especially as a woman, and like you said, when you started, there was hardly any women on the floor, some sense of responsibility. I know that's why I think a lot of women stay in toxic work environments is they feel this obligation to be that representation that doesn't exist. But I mean, I've talked to so many women over the years. And yeah, kind of the only way to not make these environments

continue is to leave. Like what was your kind of experience like, or was it very, oh, I need to get out of here. This is not healthy. Can I tell you the most, I guess like hurtful or concerning phrase to me when I was leaving, I was so distraught that people were going to say I couldn't hack it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. When I showed up on the very first day, even at the old, you know, team that I very much liked, it was 30 to 40 guys and one Asian woman. And she ended up becoming my manager and mentor. And, you know, there was certainly an unspoken bond because we looked at each other and we were like, we look the same and nobody else on this floor looks like us. When I was being

abused and, you know, frankly, just having the worst time at work, going home every night and crying, like I was worried about what my peers would say, what other students from my college would say, people who I beat out for the job would say like, oh, look, she got this opportunity of a lifetime and couldn't hack it. She couldn't make it work. She couldn't tough it out, couldn't grit her teeth. And that wasn't it. I think it's really frustrating to have that be the narrative of like if people leave a bad situation, it's because they couldn't hack it. Instead of the environment. Because they know they deserve better. They know they deserve more money. They know they deserve more respect. And I will say that's something that I've struggled. I struggled with that even years after I left. Yeah. I mean,

because that's the narrative that we've been told. It's like, if you can't hack it, well, this is why we never hired women in the first place. You're like, great. And that's the worst. Yeah. So, so from there you left and then it was your next job at BuzzFeed. Yeah. So the funny story about this is shout out to my mentor, my first manager, cause even when I stopped working as her junior, she always kept an eye out for me. And when the kimono comment happened, I basically went to her and I was like, I'm quitting today. And she was like, don't be an idiot. You don't have anything lined up. You do not want to do that. We'll talk after work, just tough it out today. And I was like, okay. So I think she ended up taking me to go get like a slice of pizza or something. And I told her what had happened and I could see it

on her face too, that it upset her because I'm sure, you know, she, she even came up in an environment that was probably significantly worse than the one I came up in because back in the day, like there certainly were no protections, you know? Um, but she said, okay, I have a friend. She used to work in our business in this industry. She ended up leaving and going into media and the tech space. Would you be interested in having a conversation? And I was like, I will do anything to quit that job. So yeah, game. Let her, have her call me right now. Funny enough, had a conversation with her. She ended up putting me through the candidacy process, met with HR, met with some other people on the team and got my first job as a brand development strategist at BuzzFeed. And I ended up working for one best friend here and her best friend over here. So

I ended up working for two best friends back to back. And, you know, I think that was very reassuring because I knew how my first manager operated. So I had a sense like, you know, if you're friends with this person, like they're probably decent too. And she was more than decent. She helped me, taught me everything I knew about media, I ended up getting promoted twice, multiple, a raise every single year while I was at BuzzFeed, promoted twice. And that was in the span of like three and a half, four years. So I felt really grateful. I held three different roles there, I covered different companies, I was basically helping, you, Fortune 100 companies build out full new campaigns, whether that would be launching a joint business venture with BuzzFeed or just as simple as putting ads on the Internet or creating content or doing something as an IRL pop up in Flatiron in New York. I got to touch and do a little bit of everything. And it was so refreshing to me to realize that the myth that I had been peddled that you could only get a good job and only have a good life if

you were a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or financier just wasn't true. I was making more money than I had ever made in my entire life. And I was wearing yoga pants to work and no one said anything about it. That's the dream, isn't it? Well, it kind of answers a question that I had, because obviously, you know, you were at BuzzFeed and then you made the choice to do your own thing, to run your own business as a kind of financial educator and content creator. And I was always wondering, I'm like, gosh, did she like study marketing or something? Because like you are doing so. But I guess you learned a lot from the BuzzFeed job and were able to apply it to your own thing. Is that about right? So I feel really lucky that my working career was the best education I could have possibly gotten even better than, you know, my very expensive college education. I took the personal finance piece that I got from working on Wall Street and I ended up combining it with the marketing, advertising, social media, entertainment, copywriting, everything, editing, even experience that I got at BuzzFeed. And I smushed them together.

And a lot of people love to ask, like, oh, like, how did you plan the launch? What was the secret? And I was like, there was no secret. There was no launch. This was me making a video for my goofball colleagues at Buzzfeed who were asking me 8,000 questions about what they should be buying in their 401k. Were the company stock options worth anything? You know, what health insurance plan did I pick? And I was like, you know, that I go to the doctor like once a year, like you have kids, you should probably have a very different health insurance plan than I do. And it was funny enough, because I kept getting the same questions. I was like, Oh, you guys are so annoying. I'm gonna put it on the internet. And you can refer to video seven for investing, video five for budgeting, video three for,

you know, the health insurance plan thing. And it was a joke. It all started as a joke. When did you when did you start putting that content out there? I put my very first video up on TikTok January 1st of 2021. And it was nothing for eight hours. I was like, OK, I like put my video up. It got seven views, no biggie.

And that night I was watching a movie with my boyfriend at the time, now fiance. And I had notifications on at that point in my life because I wasn't a social media person. And my phone started buzzing so aggressively on the couch arm and it was getting hot like you know when your phone gets hot you're like is this gonna explode and I was like what's going on and I opened up TikTok because I was getting a ton of notifications and I was like that's strange

I have 7,000 followers and I was like that's weird because on my secret personal Instagram I have like a thousand followers and I was like I know's weird because on my secret personal Instagram, I have like a thousand followers. And I was like, I know a thousand people in my entire life. Why are 7,000 people following me on TikTok? And just over the course of that week, that video ended up going crazy, crazy viral. And by the end of the week, I had 100,000 followers. Oh, if only it was that easy. I mean, listen, people ask me all the time.

How long were you posting before a video hit? And I was like, I mean, I think people ask me all the time. They're like, Oh, like, how long were you posting before a video hit? And I was like, I mean, I think that part of it was you were obviously creating content that really, you know, hit a note for people. But I think sometimes it's just right place, right time, tick tock in 2021. People were online pandemic, they were crazy for finance content. It just like was a really good situation to be in. But, you know, it's one thing to go viral. I know lots of people who've had like a viral thing and then nothing really happens after that. How did you, you know, think about, OK, what are we doing next? Like, how do we continue? Or was that the plan? Or you're like, that's a fluke, whatever. Or did

you're like, maybe there's something in this. Maybe I shouldn't see where this goes. There was no plan. There was no content calendar. There was no business model. I posted because out of the basic like bullying from my work BFF, she was like, put this on the internet so I can watch them. I'm like, okay, you're like so annoying. And when the video popped off, I called her and I was like, this is all your fault. Like,

what do I do now? And she at the time was a micro influencer in the food space. And I used to joke, I always called her my influencer friend because occasionally we would be able to go to a new restaurant and eat there for free. And she would take me because she was a micro influencer and she would post about it. And she was like, Oh, like, I don't know what to do at this point. Like you have more followers than I do. And I'm like, like, help me. So she was like, I just think you should keep creating content. Why don't you just like put out a couple videos a day? I'm like a couple videos a day. Are you out of your mind? Like I have a real job. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, okay, just like shoot for like one a day

then. And I'm like, okay, I guess. And that's what I did. I just started creating content, a video a day. And eventually that became, I would ideate seven videos on the Saturday. And then I would film a video on the Sunday, take off my shirt, put on a new shirt, and then film that video, take off my shirt, put on a new shirt. And I would make it look like they were different days of the week when in reality I had batch filmed them all because I couldn't do that during the week. I had a full-time day job and like a pretty rigorous one at that. I wasn't working nine to five. I was working probably like nine to eight. So I didn't really have the time to be doing that. So I was just like, you know, we'll try this for a little bit. And I think it was just really fun at the beginning. And that's

why I kept doing it. How did you so now that the question is, people are like, Oh, that's great. But how did you make money? Because obviously, there's no way to sustain that unless you're earning some sort of income from it. How did that start? Like, that's a very different part of the kind of being the content creators, like, oh, now you're in a very different, you know, territory. How did you start navigating that? I guess, did it start with the brands being like, hey, we want to work with you? Yeah, I think within like two weeks of me being on the internet, I had a brand reach out being like, we would love to work with you. How much do you want for three, a package of three TikTok videos? I obviously had no idea how to price this. I'm not going to name the brand, but I ended up, keep in mind at this point, I have like 150, like 200, 250,000 followers.

We, I got paid $1,200 for three videos. That's $400 a video. It's a good deal for them. I'm out here ideating, filming, editing, posting, using my, you know, using my reach. Like they got that for $400. And I look back and I'm like, you got to start somewhere. You got to, everyone makes those mistakes, right? I was like, wow, wow that's like that's tough looking back at that and i didn't know i didn't know what to do but what i would do is and this is at the point i'm not doing any external outreach this is just brands coming to me anytime a brand would agree to my rate it would be a situation where i was like uh can i have 700 and they'd be like yes yes and i'd be like oh damn that wasn't enough yeah i learned that early on it's like, yes, yes. And I'd be like, oh, damn, that wasn't enough. Yeah. I learned that early on. It's like, if they say yes right away, you didn't ask for enough money. So then the next time I would be like, can I have a thousand, $200? And they'd be like, yes, yes, of course.

And then I was like, what the heck? And so every deal I did, I just kept asking for more money. And I think it got to the point where at one point I was like, I can't believe I'm about to do this, but they were like, we want a video. How much? And I was like, $5,000. And they were like, okay, you drive a heart. Like they were like, what about 4,000? And I was like, deal. And I was like, like, did I just sell one video for $4,000? Cause I think about what I had to do in my previous jobs to make $4,000. And I was like, it wasn't one video. Like it was a lot of work. And that's how I ended up growing the business to a point where I was like, Oh, this could like actually be a really great side hustle in compliment to my day job,

because I was certainly making still much, much more money. And you've got the security at your job, right? You're like, why would I? Yeah. Like I had insurance and, you know, I had a 401k. It was that for a while. And I did that for about a year and three months where I was full timing and moonlighting. And that took me to a dark place. Did it? Just like burnout? Just too much going on? So burnt out. You know, for context, and I've shared this publicly, like in my last year working in digital media strategy sales, I made $625,000. Like that's a good paycheck.

You don't make $625,000 without really putting in some effort. Like, and a lot, I can't name too many influencers who even make that have really big followings. Like they're, they're not making that kind of money. So it's like, yeah, that's a hard decision to leave. I was making a lot of money. I had a manager who I adored. The people on my team were cool. I liked hanging out with them.

I would see some of them outside of work to the point that like we were actually friends. And I'm like, this is a great cherry seat. But it got to the point where I was like, I hate my job. I hate your rich BFF. I hated making content. I hated answering emails. I hated doing everything. And I was so just down about everything. Like nothing brought

me joy anymore. And I told my fiance boyfriend at the time, like how I was feeling. And he asked me the strangest question. And I was like, who made you so smart? He goes, you know, do you think you don't hate either of these things? You just hate doing them at the same time. And I'm like, oh, that's a really good point. He was like, you really liked your job before all this. And you really liked your rich BFF when you were just starting and you could, you know, work on your own schedule. And there weren't clients on the other end of the phone, like asking for deliverables. Like, do you think like you just can't do both? And I'm like, pretty good point. But I was scared.

I didn't know what to do. I didn't know that I was, you know, I wasn't going to walk away from $625,000. Like, that's crazy. But we had a really meaningful discussion. And I was like, what if I take it full time and it doesn't work and I flame out and there's no money? I can't even pick up my half of the rent. And this is where I will say I was privileged. I had a golden parachute because we had been dating for four or five years at the time. And he looked me in the eye and he was like, Vivian, I work

in investment banking. We will never starve. We will never be kicked out of our apartment on my pay. Like, are we going to be able to take as many vacations? Probably not. Are we going to have to take the subway instead of Uber sometimes? Sure. But like, our needs will be met. And if you want to take a big swing, you're not unemployable. And that was the real thing that kind of pushed me over the edge. It was like, I can always if this doesn't work out, I can always go back and get another job that similar to the one that I had, because my manager liked me, I had great references, everyone enjoyed working with me, I had no bad blood anywhere. And so I was like, I can always get that job back if I really wanted it. But am I ever going to get another opportunity to do this? Yeah. And the answer was no. And I didn't want to look back on this moment at age 50 or 60 and feel like, what if?

From the director of The Greatest Showman comes the most original musical ever. I want to prove I can make it. Prove to who? Everyone. So the story starts. Better Man, now playing in select theaters. So when you made that leap and then you went full time, then you did have to start making a plan and a strategy. What did that look like and what were some of your goals?

What were some of the things? And were they like all the things that you've accomplished? Like, yeah, I want to get a book. I want to do this. I want to do speaking, all this kind of stuff. Yeah. So the first person I hired on my team was my attorney because I did not want to spend time reading all of my legal documents. I was like, I'm somehow going to get screwed on this. I need someone who's like got an eye and like has worked in the entertainment industry. And she was

great for a while to the point where I just couldn't keep up with emails. I was like, hey, like I like don't even have time to do the business piece right now. Like, what do I do? And she was like, I think you might want to take on a manager. And I was like, okay. So she set up a few calls with different managers for me. I ended up meeting my now manager obsessed with her. It was just a perfect like Cinderella shoe fit from jump. She's been with me ever since. I'm very fortunate that I've only ever hired one attorney, one management team and one agency. When it got to the point where like, it wasn't just brand deals coming in or partners looking to partner, there were being

opportunities from publishing houses, there were opportunities from podcast networks, there were opportunities from major corporations to come keynote stuff. They came, my management team was like, Hey, like we're getting a lot of outreach for some really big opportunities. And we think it would be prudent for you to get someone who is very, very seasoned in these specific spaces. And I was like, yeah, I think we might need to take on agents. Then my manager set up a speed dating session for me and a bunch of agencies, met people, met people, ended up filtering down to the last two. And I ended up signing with WME, which is one of the largest entertainment agencies in Hollywood. And at WME, I was basically, you get assigned agents. They basically raise their hand to be like, we want to work with this person. I have a point agent. I have a brand partnerships, commercials agent, I have a book agent,

a podcasting agent, a TV agent, a speaking agent, like I have everybody. And each of them is really good at that one thing that they do. And so then they're able to guide me to make smart decisions in those spaces. And I think one, picking smart people who know better than you do is a huge game changer in your business. Two, I would say I had to really, really structure my weeks because suddenly I didn't have the biweekly meeting with my manager. I'm my manager and she sucks. And I had to set time to film. I had to set time to take calls. I had to set time to do that. But creating that framework from the beginning made it easy for me to then scale the business. Did that come pretty quickly once you started on your own? Just because it's like,

I know you're afraid, like, what if this doesn't work out? But then you just had the volume of opportunities. You're like, oh, it makes sense to hire these people, especially since they're probably working on commission or a percentage. So it's not like it's. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. The hiring came relatively quickly.

The framework building came out of necessity. So I ended up, you know, my last day at BuzzFeed was on a Friday. And the following Monday, I woke up. My, you know, my partner left for his normal job and I sat in my empty apartment and I had like an, oh shit. What do I do now? Literally, what do I do now? What am I supposed to do? And that's when I started to outline what I wanted the next year, the next two years, the next five years, the next 10 years to look like. Because without that goal, without a map, I was just wandering aimlessly.

So what does some of that timeline look like? And was it like, yeah, things are kind of going as they should? This is where I thought I'd be. I made a mood board, I don't know, like a vision. Yeah, yeah, a vision board. A vision board of all the things I wanted to accomplish. And I will say I've hit a lot of them, like most of them. And I make a new vision board every start of the year so that I can continue to accelerate and keep up that momentum. What I will say is that I had plans to have my podcast and write a book and have a TV show. And because I wanted those things and I communicated those desires to my agents and put in a concerted effort to get those things, they've happened for me. What I will say was not necessarily as I would like it to happen. Timing. You don't get to pick when things happen for you sometimes in this business. And I think I probably would have preferred to have them happen like one after the other

versus all at the same time. It usually happens all at the same time. In my experience, nothing happens or everything happens. Yeah, it's everything everywhere all at once. Yeah, yeah. And I will say there have been moments where I felt super overwhelmed. I'm like, how am I supposed to keep up my digital business while building out my website, while writing the stupid book, while producing this stupid podcast? And I'm just like, I hate everything.

And again, I have to remind myself, I don't. My book is not stupid. My podcast this stupid podcast. And I'm just like, I hate everything. And again, I have to remind myself, I don't. My book is not stupid. My podcast is not stupid. My digital business is not stupid. I just don't like doing everything at once. So once again, I do, as my partner mentioned, I make a list and I prioritize things and I do them one by one, one after the other. And when I'm not doing 18,000 things at once, turns out I actually really like what I do and feel very fortunate that I get to make money and help people and do it in my pajamas. And, you know, I think that's the dream, right? So many people dream about being able to work on their own terms while doing something that's fulfilling and helpful to the world while still being able to make money and sustain their own lifestyle. And I have that.

But I guess one thing and one thing I've experienced, lots of other influencers have experiences. Part of that, not part of that dream really is the downsides, the criticism. As someone, I mean, I don't have nearly as big of a platform as you I get criticism it hurts for people how about you you have a huge audience how do you like what's the mental toll on that and does that really detract you from like that really structured this is the game plan this is the calendar and then all this kind of happens how do you manage that when it was the first three months I will say every nasty comment was like a gut punch. Yeah, it hurt my feelings. And I think like, especially with folks like us, we're like, we are the brand. Yeah, it's like when you say

something about me, it's it is about me. Like I take it personally. I try not to now. But you know, it's hard not to. Yeah, it's super hard not to. And, you know, I think it can be very, very, I would say almost like isolating when you get a comment and you don't have anyone to go to because none of my friends do this for a living. Like I don't have anyone to talk to about this, but what I've started to be able to mentally shift over time is that my haters pay my bills because guess what? If you and I are arguing in my comments, we're both idiots, but only one of us is getting paid to be there. Okay.

And I think the shift has been really helpful in my mindset that like nobody who is happy with their life, feels fulfilled, has enough, lives the way they want to live, randomly goes on the internet to like tear other people down, right? The people who do that are deeply unfulfilled, unsatisfied with what they have. And just because they can't, they don't want me to either. And I think that says a lot about society. It's like, you know, if I can't do it, you can't. Like, I'm not going to work harder to build something, but I'll tear down what you've built. And I think it's like a detriment to like, you know, I think it's just one of the drawbacks of social media.

Like, there's so many benefits that social media provides, whether that's accessibility to information that otherwise wouldn't be given. There is a community building aspect. There is just new learning and discovery. But there's just also some haters, hateful people on the internet. And people feel really emboldened when they are anonymous, hiding behind a randomized profile photo, and can just be a keyboard warrior. So my opinion is let them hate. I've built the life that I want and they clearly haven't. And a lot of the criticism I've seen specifically for women in this space is, you know, the privileged conversation, which I think is a very important conversation, but especially, you know, detracting from all the accomplishments that you've been able

to achieve because you had a high income, you went to a good school, you had lots of opportunities, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Does that shape or I wonder, does it do that some of those comments make it difficult to continue creating content or do you just is like, well, it is what it is. Like I'll acknowledge my privilege, but that's not going to stop me from continuing to do the work that I'm doing. I would say acknowledging my privilege has actually brought me closer to my audience because they recognize that I'm real. There are certainly aspects of my life that I feel very lucky to have. You know, I am the model minority. I'm Asian, right? Like things would be completely different if I was another racial group. I had the opportunity

to go to a world-class institution and get an education there because my parents scrimped and saved for that education and helped me pay for it on top of, you know, merit scholarships that I applied for and got. But I'll also say this. I didn't grow up with money. I don't have a trust fund. My parents are, you know, speak broken English. I didn't get served life on a silver platter. I fought for everything that I have. And when people make comments like, who does this girl think she is? She worked on Wall Street. It's like, yeah, I get it. I look young. I'm cute. I wear, you know, dangly earrings. And you don't like that because that doesn't fit your narrative of what a rich person looks like. You expect everyone who's rich to look like Elon Musk. But that's my power.

That's why I connect with people who have never seen themselves be financially successful and why people are willing to listen to me versus their dad's financial advisor. One thing I'm curious about, so I know in so many articles, is as you ever expected to achieve has that made it more difficult to connect with your audience who may not be at that stage or you know has that changed anything with your lifestyle or are you one of those people like I like to kind of continue the lifestyle I had before I was at that financial level I think I'm still able to connect with my audience because I'm still cheap no yeah um you know I think people joke still able to connect with my audience because I'm still cheap. No, no, I think people joke, like,

they're like, why are you flying spirit airlines? And I'm like, well, it's only a two hour flight. And like, it was $42. Like,

what do you mean? And I still, you know, pick basic economy sometimes and always get in trouble because I have to change the flight. And then I have to just, you know, whatever.

Like I, I think because of the way I was raised, I will, I will forever be that person. Like I will go out and treat my partner to a beautiful omakase sushi dinner at, you know, one of the fanciest restaurants in New York City for his birthday, I will still complain about the drinks being $18. Not to mention that, you know, the price fixed sushi menu was like $200. Like, for me, I am always still, even now that I have more money, evaluating value versus price. Because to me, sometimes there is a difference and there's an inaccuracy on how things are priced and valued. Going to a fancy restaurant that is known for its food, not for its vibe, and having a gastronomic experience for a special occasion is 10 out of 10 worth it for me. Whereas buying designer goods

full price is not like, who am I trying to impress? I can get that same, you know, designer piece at like a Marshall's for, you know, 50% off and no one is the wiser. Like I am still really mindful about where I shop. I'm still really mindful about how I spend my money because every dollar that I spend is dollars that I'm not investing. And what I will say is the vast majority of my wealth is in investments right now. It's not like I have millions of dollars in cash in my second account that I can then spend on bottles and models at the club. Like the goal is not to get rich. The goal is to stay rich. And to do that, it's not what people think. It's not

you throwing bills off of a yacht. It's about making smart financial decisions. And especially now with my line of work, I make more money in a year than the vast majority of people. But I also have to remember that this this job is not like being a lawyer or an accountant or any normal job. I don't get 40 years. Influencer, creator is a very new thing. And frankly, the OG influencers, like the influencers I've seen, the vast majority of them have a maximum 10 year shelf

life. So I don't get to make, you know, all this money for 40 years, I get to make it for maybe 10 maximum, more realistically, five to seven. And all of the money that I have made in those years, I need to be really, really smart with. Because otherwise, in the back half of my life, that money needs to sustain me. That's not money that I can make now and blow. And I think that's a big, big issue that I see with some of my colleagues and peers now in the industry is they get this money for the first time and they don't know how to act. They start spending it faster than they can make it. And I'm like, did you like set aside money for your tax bill? Like, you know that we have to pay taxes quarterly, right? A lot of tax. Yeah. Like that's not just free. Um, and that's interesting. That makes a lot of sense. Cause I was always wondering,

I mean, it makes, it does make a lot of sense based off not only your upbringing and seeing the scarcity that your parents had to, you know, and, and that they were just so much part of them and then kind of went on to you, but likely also to the experience you had at your job on Wall Street, you felt secure and then you realized I can get fired. And so it's like there's no security really in anything. And so you need to protect yourself. But I think that's really smart because, yeah, I see often the message is become an influencer, make a ton of money.

And it's as if it's going to last forever. But it's like you don't this started very kind of out of nowhere. It can end, you know, in a blip just quickly. And that's why I also think it's so important to like build my business laterally, like have a podcast, have a book, have all these other things, because Instagram could wake up tomorrow and decide I'm not the hot girl anymore. I'm not. The algorithm the algorithm can change. The algorithm changes. Like you're not the cool person. You're not the person being shown in for you pages. And suddenly your entire business collapses overnight.

Whereas like if you have other mediums, if one doesn't do well, in the same way that like you build a diversified portfolio of investments, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. No, yeah, absolutely. So I know like we mainly talked about you, but honestly, I feel like this is so interesting.

So many people are like, how does this work? How do people get to know that? But I know you share a lot of the more granular how to personal finance in your book, just at a high level. What were some of the key things that you want to make sure you were imparting to your readers

that maybe gets lost in the short form content that you really want to, you know, make stand out? Yeah, I think just that the myths that we know about the rich are not true. First off, they're lazy. They don't want to work hard. Like, I think we oftentimes put rich people on a pedestal, thinking that like, they are smarter, faster, better, stronger than us. But like, they're lazy, but lazy in a smart way and that they know their labor is not as good of a money-making tool as their money. So the sooner that you can get your money making you money versus your body and your brain making you money, you're in a better

position. Another big myth I would say is that like entitlement is bad. Rich people are entitled. And yes, that does sometimes manifest as like a Karen at the front of the McDonald's line. And like, she's just being horrible to like some poor 18 year old cashier. But I think a sense of entitlement is not a bad thing because you have to understand your business is valuable. You don't need to be J-Lo to mean something to the bank. You can ask for late fees to be waived. You can ask for free checks. You can ask for all of these things because it costs a lot to replace you as a customer. Go call your Wi-Fi company. Go call your TV service provider. All of those subscriptions you have, get better rates. Go negotiate right now because you are allowed to be entitled. Your business is valuable. And then just, you know, last but not least, I would say that like talking about money is not taboo or rude or tacky because rich people have used an incredible PR agency when it hear people talking about portfolios at their golf club, at their social, you know, the social drinks lounge. They're like, Oh, I guess I'm investing in this. What are you

investing in? But like, they've shamed everybody else about it. Like, what makes it awkward when two broke girls talk about money versus two old rich guys? Like, there's no difference. And you should be talking to everyone who will listen and everyone who will respond to you about money. Because when we talk about money, we as consumers, we as employees, we as people who work for corporations and other people, like we're more powerful. How can we learn to change our financial lives if we don't tell anybody that we're struggling, right? That's amazing. Well, I don't want to keep you too much longer, but I know there's probably so many amazing things, not only just on the, all of the content platforms that you currently have,

but your new book, Rich AF, where can people find if they're new to you? Where can they find you online? And where can they grab a copy or pre order your book? Yeah, so my book, Rich AF, the winning money mindset that will change your life is available. And you can order it at richaf.me. Yes, I made the URL manifestation because we all need to manifest that richness in our life. I like that idea. So richaf.me is the website to pre-order your book or buy it depending on when this airs. When this comes in. But you can also find me across all social media as yourrichbff. And my podcast is called net worth and chill. Our last thing I forgot to ask, why did you come up with the name rich, or my rich BFF? Where did that come from? Because my girlfriends from college,

they're all smarter than me. Surgeons, lawyers, like VC, invest, they're all smarter than me. But I was the first person to jump out of school and go straight to the working world. So I had money first. They all had negative money because they went on to higher education, went to go, you know, medical school, whatever. And when they would visit me, I would just pick up the tab for lunch or dinner just as a nice treat for them. And they would say things like, oh, so lucky we have a rich best friend. And so I looked up your rich best friend or like rich best friend, it was taken. And this was like a backup, like the third or fourth backup. And everyone needs a rich BFF, if not to pay the bill, but at least to be that person to maybe open the conversation about money when no one else wants to. Right. Well, thank you so much, Vivian,

for taking the time. It was a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much for having me. And that was episode 386 of the More Money Podcast this season. Ender with Vivian to make sure to check her out at yourrichbff.com. You can also follow her on Instagram at your.richbff. And she is yourrichbff on TikTok, YouTube, Pinterest, Facebook, very easy to find her. But of course, I'm going to list everything in the show notes for this episode. So if you want to go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 386, you can find the show notes and all the info about what we chatted about in this episode. And if you want to find the show notes for any episode, you know, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast or

jessicamorehouse.com slash the number of that episode. And don't forget to grab a copy of her new book, Rich AF, The Winning Money Mindset That Will Change Your Life. I'm also going to be giving away a copy of that book. And this is kind of the last round of you submitting yourself to or entering to win all the different books that I'm giving away. I'm going to share some info about that in just a moment. But before I do that, there's just a few things I want to share with you. Do you want to figure out where your money is going? Do you want to organize your finances once and for all? Do you want to feel less anxious about your money? Well, I have a great tool for you,

my collection of budget spreadsheets, which you can find at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. These new and improved budget spreadsheets have helped thousands of people over the years. And these are honestly the budget spreadsheets that me and my husband still use today. They come in Google Sheets and Excel. They also come with a comprehensive video tutorial to show you exactly how it works. And they're very easy to use. Not only that, I've got versions for pretty much any scenario. So if you're an employee, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. If you are self-employed, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. If you're in a couple and one of you is an employee and one of you self employed, I've got a budget spreadsheet for that. I've got seven different

budget spreadsheets for any kind of situation. So no matter what's going on in your life and your income, I've got a budget spreadsheet for you. So if you want to take action and see some progress with your finances, this is one really easy step that you can take right after listening to this episode. Just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop, find the right budget spreadsheet for you, and then start making some moves that future you will be really, really thankful for. All right, first and foremost, let's talk about some of those books that I am giving away. And you've got basically maybe two, three weeks that you can enter to win before I start drawing winners. So this is your kind of last call. Enter to win before you forget. So here are some of the books that I am giving away. Quite a few. So you've got lots of chances to win something.

I'm giving away a copy of Bad with Money by Gabe Dunn. Thanks for Sharing by Eleanor Tucker, The Confidence Map by Peter Atwater, Money Zen by Manisha Thakur, The Immigrant View by Ayo O'Donnie, Mellow Your Money by Mick Hyman, Nine Lives by 35 by Mary Sanders, and The Good Enough Job by Simone Stalzov, Your Journey to Financial Freedom by Jamila Soufrant, Keeping Finance Personal by Elise Fulvmore, and last but not least, Rich AF by Vivian Tu. So all you have to do is go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest. It is that easy. All of them are there. You can enter to win every single book, but if you are a lucky winner, you will only win one book. And yeah, it's that easy. Basically,

all the information is on JessicaMorehouse.com slash contest. So make sure to check it out and enter to win before it is too late. All right. So this is, you know, like I've mentioned several times, the season finale of season 17 of the More Money Podcast, which is crazy that we're going, we're going to hit, you know, season 20, we're going to hit gonna hit you know season 20 we're gonna hit 400 episodes likely next season which is incredible and we've already surpassed eight years and and yeah it'll be nine years next June which is incredible and you know it's it's been a very interesting year I'm sure you've hopefully enjoyed some of the the kind of little you know bits and pieces I've been able to share of what I've been doing this year, predominantly working on my book, which I'm so excited after, honestly, interviewing people who

have books for over eight years, it feels damn good to be able to be on the other side for a change. And, you know, at some point next year, and probably late 2024, I'll be on podcasts talking about my book, which is really exciting. But now I do really want to emphasize, though, how important this podcast is for me. Honestly, it's kind of crazy, but it did give me a career. And it's not just this podcast, this thing that just lives on its own. It's you for listening, supporting, and being a really great, amazing listener and telling your friends to listen and sharing it to other people and sending me emails with nice things to say. I really, really appreciate it. If not for this

podcast and for your support, I know I wouldn't be where I'm at in my career and being given all these amazing opportunities. And I certainly probably wouldn't have gotten a book deal, if I'm quite honest. So I just want to say a big thank you as we end 2023 this year. I want to say a big thank you for all of your support and all of the nice well wishes and things like that that you've been able to send my way. I hope you're getting some value out of this podcast, too. And you really do understand how much work and love and blood, sweat and tears I put into this podcast and have for all of these years. It's something that is really a labor of love. And I want to make sure that I continue to have, you know, amazing, inspiring guests who can help you with

wherever you're at on your own personal finance journey. And hopefully, you know, over the overall message of the podcast, no matter what episode you're listening to, or, you know, over the overall message of the podcast, no matter what episode you're listening to, or, you know, what season you're listening to is that money is a tool, and you can learn this stuff. There's, it's not going to be easy. There's a lot of things in the way. But you can take control of your finances and just take those baby steps. And it'll get better, you know, one step at a time. And then you'll be able to look back years later and be like, wow, look at all the progress I made. I mean, one thing I've been writing about in my book is the fact that we sometimes forget

about how strong and resilient we are. I mean, just think of all the things that you've had to deal with in your life up until this point, you have survived quite a bit. You've overcome a lot of obstacles to be where you are, and you should be really proud of that. And that should give you kind of that motivation to be like, okay, if I could get over this, this, and this in my personal life, in my career, I absolutely can apply, you know, the things that I learned on this podcast and continue educating myself and, you know, the things that I learned on this podcast and continue educating myself and, you know, really taking that, you know, all the information and the tools that are out there, and I'm going to apply them to my life, and I'm going to get to that next level. So not

only will you be in a better place financially, but when you are what I found, especially too, is once you are in a better place financially, and you feel more secure, and you're okay, I've got a plan, I'm not so anxious, you can then help others. And whether that's just providing more information and guidance, or even just like, you know, hey, having the means to donate to charities or to, you know, give money to that GoFundMe. I was actually listening or watching a TED Talk not too long ago by Lynn Twist, who wrote the book, The Soul of Money. And actually, I should remember that because she'll come on my podcast. She's kind of a big deal. She was on Oprah's podcast, so I don't know, but I'll give it a go. Loved her book. And what she talked about in her TED Talk was this idea that money is a current. And by that, she means it should flow, it should go to, it shouldn't just stop at you, it should go everywhere. And I really liked that visualization, because I like to think that when I am making sure that I'm financially, you know, okay, and I'm doing the things I need to do

to make sure that's the case, I want to make sure that my money flows to others, whether that's, you know, in so many different ways. And if we can all have that kind of mindset that money is flowing to you and you and you, and then it'll flow back to me, like, gosh, we can take care of each other and just be part of a much better world than I think sometimes we see on the news or even social media media where sometimes it seems like the messaging is very much get your money and keep it and hoard it and become that billionaire. And that's really not what money is for. So we can take care of each other and have joy and community and love our lives and love the people in it. That's just some of my thoughts going through my mind as I am also the home stretch of writing my book. Just a couple more chapters. Actually, at this point, I should be, I mean, I'm recording this a few weeks before it airs. I should hopefully be done the second to last chapter. And then hopefully January, I will just be able to focus on that last chapter and get it done before my due date, which is really exciting. But yeah, so that's what I've been thinking going through. Just yeah, that's that's me. That's what's going on with me. I'm very

excited for next year, next season. I've already honestly got some episodes recorded and ready to go and excited to see what 2024 has in store for me and for you. I think it's going to be a good year. I always like an even year, don't you? 2024. Oh, that sounds nice. That sounds really nice. So with that, again, thank you so much. And a big shout out to my podcast editor, Matt Rideout, for continuing to make these podcast episodes sound so good. And I'm going to leave you here and wish you a happy holidays, whatever you celebrate, wishing you good joy and cheer and happiness and lots of food and, you know, goodness and, you know, walks in the cold where there's twinkly lights and things like that and hot chocolate. And I'm going to see you back here in the new year in 2024. And I cannot wait. I will see you then.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.