More Money Podcast - 415 Chasing Financial Freedom from Across the World - Co-Authors of How Not to Work Forever, Natasha Etschmann and Ana Kresina

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Isn't it amazing how, no matter where you live in the world, we can all be doing the exact same thing like chasing financial freedom? Sure, there may be different tax rules, account types, and even strategies depending on the country, but at the end of the day, the actual steps to build wealth and achieve your financial goals can look the same no matter where you live. To prove this point, I invited Natasha Etschmann and Ana Kresina on the podcast who both live in Australia. Ana is originally from Canada (we went to the same university!), so she has a unique perspective on personal finance in Canada and Australia. Natasha has become one of the biggest financial content creators in Australia with a following in the hundreds of thousands. Together, they've teamed up to write the book How To Not Work Forever: Start Investing and Build a Life You Love to help people in Australia and anywhere in the world achieve financial freedom so they can, well, not work forever. Ana also wrote the book Kids Ain't Cheap: How to Plan Financially for Parenthood and Your Family's Future to help parents navigate the financial change of becoming a parent. Follow me: Instagram @jessicaimoorhouse Threads @jessicaimoorhouse TikTok @jessicaimoorhouse Facebook @jessicaimoorhouse YouTube @jessicamoorhouse LinkedIn - Jessica Moorhouse For full episode show notes and transcript visit jessicamoorhouse.com/415 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Mormonie Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and my guests for today's episode are coming from the future. Well, a day in the future, because they're in Australia. I know that's super cheesy. I just wanted to say that because it was pretty fun. And yeah, I did say, hey, what's going on in the future? I can't help myself. I can't help myself. But anyways, even though we were very much in different time zones, it was in the morning for them and the nighttime for me, I was so excited to invite my two guests for this episode on the show to talk about their brand new book that came out in the summer, How to Not Work Forever, Start Investing, and Build a Life You Love. And I'm,

of course, talking about Natasha Etchman and Anna Christina. Now, Natasha, or as she's more commonly called, Tash, is one of Australia's most popular personal finance content creators with a community of more than several hundred thousand people. She got started sharing her personal finance journey in 2020, and now she works as a speaker and financial educator full time. And you can follow her on Instagram or TikTok at Tash Invest if you're not already following her. And she's also the host of the Get Rich Slow Club podcast, along with her co author, Anna Christina. Now, Anna and I have actually known each other, but not actually known each other for a number of years. We've been talking through DMs for, I don't know, a long time now. She's originally from Canada.

And we actually went to the same university, oddly enough. And now she's in Australia. She's been there for a decade now. So it's not like she just moved there. She lives in Australia. And before she came out with this book with Tash, she also came out with another book called Kids Ain't Cheap, How to Plan Financially for Parenthood and Your Family's Future. So you can also take a look at that book if you want. So in this episode, we talk a bit about their book, their thoughts on FIRE, Financial Independence, Retire Early, the complexities of being a financial content creator in Australia. There's a ton of restrictions and also what some of the big differences are between Canada and Australia when it comes to things like investing and retirement. We talk about a lot

of different things. We do bring up the differences in our countries in terms of they've got spiders, we've got bears. There's a lot that we talked about. We had a lot of fun. So I know you're going to love this episode. And of course, as always, I am giving away a copy of their book. So make sure to listen to the end to find out how you can enter to win. But without further ado, let's get to that interview with Tash and Anna. Welcome Tash and Anna to the More Money Podcast from Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time, you know, literally the time, the time difference is crazy to come on the show and talk about your new book how to not work forever start investing and build a life you love thank you so much i'm so excited to have you on the show yay thanks for having us you're so welcome

and anna i want to kind of start with uh you just because i'm like how do we know each other because i feel like we've been talking online for years yeah how though i looked at my email i'm like, how do we know each other? Because I feel like we've been talking online for years. Yeah. How though? I looked at my email. I'm like, I, but I feel like I know you for a long time. Yeah. It's been a weird thing. I think like, I think I came across your podcast long time ago when I was like coming across fire. And at that time I was consuming a lot of like Canadian American content. Cause there was like nothing in australia around that stuff and i um and then i just realized we both went to sfu at the same time but i don't think our paths ever crossed no what degree did you do i did a bfa did you how did we know yeah what when did you graduate uh seven maybe okay maybe yeah i feel like there maybe it was a bit yeah yeah yeah that's two years

earlier than me but yeah it's like there probably was if we like yeah i can look at the footage we probably crossed a little yeah we've probably crossed paths i was like part of the student union you've probably seen my like poster all over the thing you probably voted for me like who knows what but yeah i didn't vote i definitely didn't know there was oh no never mind union what were you I did I was the treasurer of the whole union of meant to be yeah which is funny because I have an arts degree right like I have like Jessica's the same right in film but we ended up in useless arts degree oh film is perfect for this though that's why you've got such a nice setup. Not the kind of film that I learned because it was very archaic.

It was literally like, it was only in like the last year, maybe last two years of the degree that we learned digital video. Like everything was like analog. Yeah. We had a dark room. Yeah.

Dark rooms. We're old school, Tash. Yeah. Like, yeah, it makes me feel old. Like the first year we, yeah, it doesn't matter. like yeah it makes me feel old like the first year we yeah it doesn't matter but yeah we learned film on actual film old stuff that you literally don't do anymore or can't even it doesn't no one does anymore like no it's hard to even print pictures like i know it's very difficult yeah so but yeah so maybe that's probably yeah so we've been

online friends for a long time tash i, I stumbled upon you a couple of years ago, just you creating content. I'm like, oh my gosh, this stuff is so great. And I'm like, oh, she's Australian. It's kind of crazy from across the world. And I, you know, stumbled upon what you were doing. How did you two meet then? How did you connect? I don't even remember the first time we met, but Anna didn't. So you can tell the story. I just remember jumping on a call with Tash talking about TikTok actually at the time, but we connected in an interesting way. So I was blogging at the time and then I got reached out by a investment company by Perler, who is like a brokerage wealth management company who was like, hey, you are blogging about financial independence, but you're also a product manager.

So you work in tech. And then they were already partnering and working with Tash. And then I'll pass it over to Tash. Yeah, I wanted to host some events after the end of the COVID lockdown. So we wanted something in person. And I knew about you somehow,

obviously because we'd spoken before, but I was like, I want Anna to moderate the panel and the events that we're doing. And then that's how we got to meet in real life. But yeah, I wish I could remember that first meeting. Cause we must've been friends before then for me to be like, I want Anna to be the moderator, but I don't remember. I appreciate it. Thank you. But that's, that's how it kind of started out. So we started working together on like live events and that's, and then it evolved from there. Yeah. And in Australia, the finance space is really

small. You kind of know of everyone who's talking about money online. Is it so, cause I know like Australia is similar to Canada in that it's like a big land mass, but yeah, it sometimes feels like a small town. Everyone kind of knows each other, but from different parts. You are in Melbourne, right? Yes. I just moved to Melbourne. Oh, okay. And yeah, I'm curious. Yeah, just out of pure curiosity. Yeah, what's it look like? Is it there's other financial content creators all over Australia? Or is it very kind of siloed in like certain cities? And that's kind of where everybody is?

Yeah, I think I'm from Perth originally, but there's not really, there's maybe one other person in Perth who does this, Joel from the History of Money. And he's more of like a coin collector. But yeah, I think the rest are mostly in like Sydney and Melbourne from memory now. There's like one more in Canberra. There's some up in Queensland as well. But because there's not like enough of us in total around Australia, you just kind of know of people online that way. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, that's definitely how it started in Canada when I started blogging back in

2011 there. It was a very small you know community I've always followed is it um Mallory Rowan is that her last name yeah yeah she was like the first Canadian person I followed yeah I loved her stuff for so long I love that that's amazing so how long have you Tash um been doing what you've been doing because it seems like you've been doing it for now you know a while I mean and you've been able to grow your following. And now you're doing a podcast, you've got a book, but when did it all kind of start for you? And because I know you didn't, you know, similar to me and Anna, we did not, you know, plan to have this kind of career in financial education. How did that kind of start for you? What kind of inspired you? Yeah, it was in August of 2020.

So during the COVID lockdowns over here, I saw people in the US kind of talking about their money journeys and what they were spending money on and where they were investing, but there wasn't really anyone in Australia doing similar stuff at the time that I noticed. And there was lots of Roth IRAs that I heard about. We don't have that in Australia. So one day I was just like, okay, I'll just like share my money journey online. And then it really took off from there, which has been pretty wild. And your journey has been pretty wild, I must say, too. Like if you just started in August 2020, it's we just finished, you know, I mean, a couple of months ago, we're recording this in October, August 2024. So it's been four years since you really started. So do you want to kind of walk us through because I know that was a

big inspiration for you wanting to create this book and inspire others to kind of do similar journeys of financial independence? Where were you? What was your kind of starting point in terms of like your personal finance journey? And where are you now? Because I know you're doing, you know, you're making lots of moves. You're doing some great things. Thank you. I was really lucky. I started investing when I was 18. So I'm 26 now. Yeah. I graduated high school like a year early in Australia. So I was 17 the whole first year out of high school. So everyone else was out drinking and I was kind of just like, okay, I'm bored. I can just work, I guess. I've not got anything to spend my money on, which is awesome. And then I bought my first apartment in Perth in Australia. Everyone kind of wants to buy property

initially at some point along in their journey. It's slowly changing now. So I focused on property and then I was just trying to work and save as much as possible. It's grown now. I've gotten that worth of just over $600,000 Australian dollars, which is very exciting. Very cool. Yeah. But just lots of work. You're still in your twenties too or? Yeah, I'm 26. Oh my God. You're doing great. I wish I, I certainly was not in that position when I was 26. I was still, I was still fumbling through it. That's for sure. So that's really amazing. What, you know, what kind of guided you to make some of those good decisions? Cause I know most people who are like 18 are not making

those decisions. They may not even know that they have to make some of those decisions. They're like, I'll figure it out later. Yeah. I was really lucky. My parents spoke about money really openly my whole childhood. So they were, they didn't always make the best decisions, but they always spoke about them and they spoke about money as a tool, not as like a really emotional thing like some people's families do, or they didn't avoid it completely, which is great. So I watched them make mistakes. I watched them discuss things openly. They kind of empowered us to just make our own choices really early on as well and just

treated us like adults straight away with money, which is awesome. I think I also was just like very obsessive with things. Like when I decided I wanted to save money, that became like my whole life and a fun game. And I like to achieve things. So it was just like more of a hobby at some point as well. But I think it was just like, I went traveling really early on and it showed me that if you save for something, you could just fly around and literally take yourself to anywhere in the world, which was really cool back then. Yeah, absolutely. Did you ever consider or get into like the fire movement? Like the really, I mean, it sounds like you're kind of doing some of the good actions, but maybe not as extreme as some of the people in the fire community.

Yeah, I was really, really, really frugal for a while. And I liked the idea of it initially, but then I kind of moved away from the idea of not working because I like working quite a bit. I just want to have the freedom to choose what I do. But I was kind of doing that anyway. Like I was never afraid to quit jobs and find a new job or move cities or do something different. So I don't, we just went to a fire retreat on the weekend, actually, Anna and I, and yeah, it's reopened my mind to it because people aren't as hardcore as they seem online in real life. So going backwards and forwards, but yeah, I think I'm creating my own version of financial independence. I like that. How was that, Retriana? What did you, because I remember like you kind of mentioned you were kind of interested in FIRE, but then maybe not so much anymore.

Yeah, no, I think I still identify with the FIRE movement. And I always have, like that was my first introduction to like hardcore investing and thinking about the future because I was also very good at budgeting. But I think, Jessica, like back in our, because we're a bit older than Tash, there was just, there weren't the resources to talk about investing. So unless you had financial literacy in your family, and Tash has been really fortunate to have parents who talked about investing specifically. So even though my immigrant family talked about money and saving and property, they had no clue

about investing. That was gambling. So when I came across FIRE and investing and actually thinking about your expenses in relation to your investments, that was like blew my mind. That blew my mind. And I thought, okay, if I can do 25 times my expenses, then I can retire. And so I got hardcore into it. Now that I've had like two kids and had to go through parental leave. And that also impacts your earning capacity, your retirement fund, your ability to have raises at work like that. And diving into that information really kind of opened my eyes to financial literacy from a parental side. But I don't know, I still identify with FIRE. And being at that retreat was really awesome because I think we met people who were at the beginning of their journey and people who fired and then people in between.

And it's funny because Tash and I, when we first got reached out by our publisher, asked if we would write a fire book. And we were like, we don't want to write a fire book. You know, Tash is like, my audience is more about beginner investing. And then it eventually evolved into being a book of like maybe soft fire it is a fire book kind of now just not like with all the typical fire terms yeah not as hardcore yeah yeah yeah like a soft flame you know not a full-on fire I like soft fire that's because yeah I've always liked the idea of FIRE because ultimately it means you're, you know, setting a really lofty goal and you want to retire early and who doesn't want to do that? But yeah, it's usually the extremeness, like some things that people do in order to achieve that. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do that. No. And I also, yeah, like, gosh, I like to work. I'm so lucky to be able to do this and, know feel like i have a purpose and i know that's a big

topic in your book and that's that's likely part of the reason you wanted to not do a fire book but something kind of adjacent so you can really talk about there's lots of different ways that you can achieve um the things that you want and design whatever fire means to you or whatever financial independence means to you so i'm curious you know you. So I'm curious, you know, you probably, you started the pod, actually, I haven't even asked you this. When did you guys start your podcast? Because it's one of like the biggest finance podcasts in Australia now. It was in April last year. So it's been a year and a half now. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. I want to go back to, do you follow the fire movement? Is that what you're up to as well? Me? No, I wouldn't say really it's like I

follow it from afar just out of curiosity but now it's like I've got my own me and my husband have our own kind of personal goals but I don't even necessarily because we both are lucky in that we're both self-employed and both do jobs that we absolutely love and we just want to see how far we can go with them the idea of stopping that just because we have a certain amount of money, I'm like, oh no, we probably still keep going. But we definitely have our like numbers, net worth, kind of goals by ages and stuff that we're working towards and stuff like that. But that's kind of it. Like I don't want to stop. Would you do anything differently? Because I think that's the big key question. Like if right now you didn't have to work, you didn't have to pay, you know, the mortgage

or the rent or anything of that, what would change? I think for both of you, what's the answer to work? You didn't have to pay, you know, the mortgage or the rent or anything of that. What would change? I think for both of you, what's the answer to that? That's a really great question. No one asked me questions on my own podcast, but I should know because you're a podcaster. So I'm like, oh, wait, that's why. That's a good question. I mean, I'd probably work a little bit less. That's probably like I'd probably schedule more time for, you know, visiting family and doing some more vacations, more travel. Like that's the difficult thing. And I'm sure you guys maybe have experienced this a little bit, too. Working for yourself is just it's hard to schedule that off time because there's always something that may come up.

And you're like, oh, we're going to go away that way. But then this thing, I can't say no to this opportunity. And because you also just don't know when those opportunities are going to stop to flow. And that's always kind of the fear at a certain point, maybe, you know, the email stopped coming and the opportunities stopped to come your way. So that's probably the only difference. But no, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, I also just finished writing a book that's coming out at the end of the year. And part of the journey of writing that book was very much of introspection and figuring out what, you know, and that's why I loved your book so much. I'm like, it's very much in alignment with, you know, what makes me happy? What do I want out of my life? I'm like, Oh, I think I'm actually really happy with what's going on so I like I think I'm happy I'm not sure but I think maybe that's just being Canadian you're not sort of about anything sorry yeah you apologize like constantly sorry sorry literally constantly like do you have yeah is that not that's just a Canadian thing that's a Canadian thing okay someone else bumps into me and I say sorry oh yeah yeah yeah everyone's saying sorry constantly It's everyone saying sorry constantly. That's the whole country.

That's why we get hardly anything done. We're just constantly busy saying sorry. No, that's a great question. But I, so, yeah, so you started the podcast and I guess maybe the book was kind of a natural thing that came out of it because you were just having so many great conversations. Or how did it kind of come about? And how did you, I always wonder when you're writing a book with two authors, how did you figure out we want to both say this? How did you write it? Like that seems really hard enough writing with one person and all the people in my head. So I don't know how you did with two people. Yeah. The book, we were lucky. It just got offered

to us. Like a publisher reached out and asked if you wanted to write one, like Anna was saying about fire. And I said, Oh no, I don't want it to be, I don't want it to be really exclusive and exclude people who are just starting out because FIRE sounds really scary to most of the population. I wanted it to be, it's like the deep end. Yes. Yeah. And there's so much privilege that comes with FIRE. So we just wanted to make it a resource for most people in Australia who want to invest. Writing a book with two people, I don't think I could have done it by myself. I feel like I just would have procrastinated forever. Anna is a lot more organized people, I don't think I could have done it by myself. I feel like I just would have procrastinated forever. Anna is a lot more organized and does things regularly, whereas I am an all or nothing do it last minute kind of person.

So that was really good. Um, it was good because we had the podcast research already and we kind of outlined the first season of the podcast. We kind of knew where we were going with it. There was some like hiccups along the way, but we kind of just divvied up the chapters. We wrote one each and alternated. There was like some back and forth with that in terms of like, oh, did you explain that? Have we explained that too many times? I write, I think I've gotten used to explaining

things in TikTok terms. So my stuff is really short and to the point, whereas Anna writes like a writer. So we're trying to make it look like it wasn't written by two completely different people as well. The editing process was long. I think. The editing process was very long. Like, yeah, we, I think we did a good job of like breaking it out, but then when we tried to make it cohesive and working with our editor as well, we had to like go back. And I think in the, you know, 11th hour, Tash already was on holidays because we anticipated we'd get the editing done. Yeah, I was on a train in Japan and Anna's like I've added another chapter and I was like oh cool I'm like I just wrote a chapter sorry it was like something was missing yeah so it worked out for the best yeah was that one of

the best chap like was that like oh we needed that chapter it worked out it was like the fire parts at the end I think right Tash was thatash? Was that what I wrote? Yeah, yeah. Because we changed the title of the book along the way, like really last minute after we'd written it already. So we were kind of missing the bit tying it into how to actually not work forever because it was kind of just an investing book initially. But to fit in with the title, we had to go, okay, well, how do you actually like stop working and use that money?

And like, what do you go do from there? Did you learn anything? Because I know you already did a lot of research before writing the book, but while going through that process, did you learn anything that surprised you about maybe yourself or your own personal finance journey or just money in general? About the publishing industry? Yes, definitely. Oh, well, that's a whole other conversation. Not going to share too much, but yeah, I love to read. I've read so many books. So seeing the inside of the publishing industry was very interesting and how that all works in terms of marketing and

yeah very interesting to see that yeah but more just I mean did you discover anything about yourself and your own like finances or your how you you know your values or any kind of like kind of concepts about money or were you like no, no, it confirmed things. You're like, oh, wow, I have a more clear sense of where I'm at today. Yeah. Well, I always defer back to the case studies we have in the book. So we feature a bunch of different people and their money journeys and where they're at and exactly what they invest in and what living a life they love looks like. And so for me, I really love hearing people's stories. I love connecting to them. Do they differ to mine? What's the opportunities that they've had or the challenges

that they've had to get to where they are? How's that different for me? And it builds empathy and understanding and learning. And I think so much of financial literacy and financial education is learning from one another. So I think for me, it's really about hearing other people's experiences. That's the part that I get really excited about. And my favorite part, usually when I, when I read like, you know, books that are more investing or are, are nonfiction, I love hearing the personal stories in them. I had more of a limiting belief around even writing a book in the first place. I was like, oh, that's kind of not for me.

That's for other people. I don't really ever want to write a book. But then lots of people around me started writing books. Like Anna wrote her first book. Some of my other friends wrote books and it kind of became more of an accessible thing to me. I think that's such a good takeaway just for investing in general. If you put yourself around, people are actually doing the thing.

It makes it a lot more accessible and achievable for you as well. Because you're like, okay, everyone else has done it. I can probably do it now as well. Yeah. Oh, I love that takeaway. That's absolutely true. Cause yeah, I found that when I surround myself with like, or when I try to create that environment of other people and similar to you, I have a lot of friends who are authors or in the personal file, it just builds you up and makes you like, maybe I can do that. Cause they did that. And not to say that they

didn't, you know, work hard on this, but maybe I could do that too. That's not, yeah, that's a really great. Yeah. Not saying it's like easy or anything, but just when you see all the conversations happening around you and people are talking about their editors and their book deals and the advances and like the process of it. And you see that it's really hard, but you also see that it's more achievable than maybe you thought it was. It wasn't like these big grand people that you'll never ever meet in your real life. It's like, actually like everyday people are doing it too. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the really important thing and what I've been loving to see. Cause I mean, Anna probably knows you remember all the books that were coming

out like 10 years ago and you're like, there was, they're not, there was like five of them. Like there's no books. The wealthy barber. The wealthy bar writer you're going to say. It's a Canadian one, right? Is that a Canadian author? Yeah. It is not really about the barber. Literally Googled yesterday being like, did that book even talk about investing? Like, I couldn't remember. I read it so long ago.

I don't think, I feel like it did. It was the first book. It was, yeah. I think it talked about mutual funds and fees. Man, I'd have to reread that book because that was, for whatever reason, that was every Canadian's first like personal finance book that guy think of how far we've come right like now you can literally learn about personal finance

on TikTok like who would have thought that that you know yeah it was it was very different and I'm sure the same for Australia as well as that the information just was not there and I feel like that's the one good thing that happened with COVID, even though I did see, you know, before that there is so much more access, there was blogs and YouTube channels and podcasts and things like that, and more books by people, but it really exploded. People like you, Tash, who were like, maybe I should talk about this. And I think that's really important for people to not just, you know, go to like these financial institutions or talk to someone in a suit about this. It's like they need to talk to regular people

who have that life experience, said, I made a mistake, don't do this, or this is what I learned you to do this to, this works. I think that's honestly, that's gonna make a bigger impact than someone behind a desk giving you advice. And seeing the journey as well. I was doing like a reflection post yesterday

when I first started posting, my net worth was just over a hundred thousand dollars. And now it's like just over $600,000. And it's not about like just seeing the experts talking about it, but people can actually go back and see the whole journey and what's played out. And it's not like we're all going to say the right things all the time, but seeing those things in real time can be so much more accessible. Yeah. And that's the cool thing too, because you've been able to document your entire journey. People can go back to the beginning and like, oh, yeah, like it's right there. It's not like someone who just came out of nowhere and is claiming something. It's like the evidence is there.

It's all it's all out there. It's all public. And I think that's really inspiring because for for a lot of the important advice that's in your book and lots of other books, people just like, yeah, but that's not for me. That can't happen for me. But when they see someone like you, they're like, maybe I can do that. Yeah, I think that's a really important thing to talk about. Absolutely. When I first started posting, I was working as a support worker. Do you have support workers in Canada? Do you call them support workers or are they called something else? What? I don't. What does that do? And I'll tell you if we do.

I work with people with disabilities. Like you have them. I'm sure they might just be called like PCAs or carers or something. Yeah. They might be called that. I'm not super familiar, but that is a role we definitely have. Yeah. Anyway, so I was a support worker with people with disabilities. I had like, no, you need to go back then. Anyone can kind of get that job in Australia. And that was where I started out just being like, okay, cool. I'm taking my support worker salary and investing that. And that was a lot more like everyday people stuff rather than like I'm a fancy finance person in a suit do you find it's difficult to talk about your financial journey

now that you you know are doing something different you're like working in the industry now and do you find like there's a bit more flack for that definitely it is harder once you get like I'm not super successful now, but it is harder when you start to earn a little bit more money because people are like, oh, that's so unachievable. Like I can't be a influencer or influencer or whatever it is. And it's also, I think social media is still looked down upon as well. And people don't like to think in Australia, especially that you're making money off of them. Like everyone wants free content and free podcasts and not everyone, but lots of people want free stuff. So that's quite hard. And it's not as tangible. Like I can't share my payslip in the same way and be like,

I worked 38 hours and made a thousand dollars and then I worked overtime. So that's been a bit harder, but people are starting to come a bit more understanding about it all. Yeah. I think that'll definitely change. It definitely sounds like where Canada was, I'd say like seven or eight years ago., like when I I've been doing this professionally for eight years, but then I was doing it just on the side for four or something. And during like the when I was just a side hustle on top of my day job, there was a lot of judgment and shame against, you know, making any money off of all the free content I was putting out there for years, which when you think about it, like that is absolutely ridiculous that you would like you wouldn't ask an artist to like give me that painting for free just because you had a good time doing it or something like that.

So I'm sure Australia will change and you're going to are kind of being the, the influencers, the financial content creators, which are so essential and bringing that information, especially to young people. I think, yeah, we'll see a big, big shift. And, you know, um, I'm sure too, now that this does give you a lot more credibility that you have, you have a fricking book, you wrote a fricking book, you know what you're talking about. It's literally in a book. So let's talk a little bit about what you put in the book specifically. I love reading finance books from different countries because pretty much everything's very similar. There's always similarities. There's always a little bit of differences, especially how we talk about things. There's a thing you got called a super.

Anna, what is that in Canadian terms? What's a super? Is that a pension or what is that? Yeah, super. So it's called a superannuation. And it's quite similar to Canada's version of an RRSP. OK. So yeah. So it's a retirement fund that you can put money in. But your employer puts money here as well.

But the big difference is that your employer puts in 11.5% of your income into your super. Oh my crap, that's a lot. Yeah, yeah. And they have to. I heard recently that other countries, you don't have to do that, which is crazy. No, in Canada, you don't. It's very different. We've got some employers offer pensions.

It's not mandatory and they're not very popular anymore unless you work in like public service or health or something like that. And then there's group RRSPs, which is similar, I'd say, to the super where your employer contributes or matches your contributions. But usually it's like maybe up to four or eight percent or something like that. Nothing like that. So in Australia, it is mandatory for all employers to offer this. Sounds pretty great, honestly. Yeah, it's not offered. It's like they have to do it. Oh, no, they have to. Wow. Yeah, so you have your income, and then they have to put in 11.5% into your super,

so your retirement savings. And you technically can't touch it until you hit retirement or preservation age, as it's called. Or you can access it in the case of hardship or your first home super saver scheme, which we have in Canada as well, which is quite similar. So it's called. Or you can access it in the case of hardship or your first home super saver scheme, which we have in Canada as well, which is quite similar. So it's a forced savings for a lot of people who might not have the money to put aside, but their employer will have to do that. Now, there's differences as to if you're a really high income earner, you're going to have more going into your retirement fund versus if you're a low income earner, but there's ways that you can contribute to it as well.

So that's like some of the biggest differences between the Canadian and Australian system. But did you, did you find it was really difficult when you moved to, and when did you move to Australia, Anna? Was it a little while ago? Oh,

it's been 10 years. It's been a while. From the director of the greatest showman comes the most original musical ever. I want to prove I can make it. Prove to who? Everyone. So the story starts.

Better Man, now playing in select theaters. Was it a big adjustment to figure out, like you're kind of starting from scratch of like, how do things work here? Yeah, absolutely. I think like that was probably one of the, one of like the interests where it's like, okay, I'm getting my employers putting money aside. How does that work? Is that my money? Like, can I access that money? Or is it just like pretend money that kind of lives there? Cause it's, it has a slightly different system than the Canadian system where you can kind of go through a bank or through a broker and you can manage your own

RRSP. Like you can choose exactly what ETF or stock you want to invest in. In Australia, there are super funds. So there's big institutional companies that kind of literally put you into a bit of a managed fund and whether that's an index fund or a passive fund, like you have to choose from them. So you don't, you can't actually go and pick exactly at that basic level. Yeah. That's so different. Tash, do you have anything to add on some of this? Yeah, it's just so crazy that other countries don't make it forced as well.

Like, it's so interesting. And there's pros and cons everywhere, of course. There's no way that Canada or the US especially, because, I mean, the US is a very different country than Canada, I will say, though. We share a border and we love the US. But they are very much government, do not touch my money, you know? Like, stay away whereas canada u.s looks to us they're like oh my god i can't believe you will

allow the government to um facilitate your health care we would never we don't want it to tell you know like so it's yeah it's a very different yeah it's still more like i don't know how linked it all is in the background but it is still like your own it's company. So you can pick where your super goes and you can change super funds and you do have control. And we also have something called a self-managed super fund where it's in a kind of superstructure, but you can invest in property if you want or in crypto or literally with whatever you want in your super fund, as long as it's for retirement, which is very interesting. It's, they've made it very confusing, which is a con for sure, but it's obviously amazing that we are forced to save for retirement in this way yeah i'd say the only forced savings is we do

have something called canada pension plan cpp but it's a yeah percentage of your taxable income and it's honestly not that it's not that crazy it's really not that much um compared but it is a sort of forced savings but it's not the same i wonder if yeah yeah if it's become a con in australia because we think we don't need to save for retirement anymore like i feel like content in the us and canada it's a lot more focused around like you do need to actually invest outside of your employment oh yeah save for the future but in australia people like oh we've got the pension we've got our super i'm good to go when often it's not actually enough i mean it sounds kind of similar to what I hear from friends in the UK

because they've got their whole structure and it does seem like, oh yeah, there is like the pension and pensioners and things like that. Whereas in Canada, it's very much like, listen, yeah, you got CPP and there's another thing called old age security, which is something you don't contribute to,

but you do get if you meet certain requirements, but most Canadians get it when you retire. But those two, they're like, these are supplementary. They are not enough to live on. So you have to invest on your own. And so you're saying, even though there are these mechanisms in Australia that can force you to save and stuff like that, you still need to find out how to. So what are the accounts, just out of curiosity, can you invest outside of your super? Is there something that you can do okay so you can like in a regular brokerage account okay yeah yeah but jessica that's basically it though we only have

super you know how canada has like a tfsa and an rsb like super is the thing but yeah and now the fhsa the first home saving oh yeah yeah yeah we've got um because super only became like a more mandatory like thing at the level it is now kind of recently, I guess. So there are some people retiring, especially women who don't have enough super left, especially if they haven't worked because they've had time to look after kids. This is more your topic, Anna. Anna's got all the stats on these. So it's kind of a, we're kind of trying to highlight to people sometimes that you need more super to retire than you think you might need. And often you will have to either make

sure it's invested correctly because sometimes people, you have like super in your super fund, but people don't realize that you need to pick an investment. Otherwise it will just sit there in cash for some people. And then you also need to like, yeah, make sure you've got a fully paid off house because our retirement system is based if you're living in your own property, that's fully paid off. What do you mean by that? What do you mean? The numbers they do like to assume how much you need to retire, they assume you've got a fully paid off property with all those estimates.

Yeah. Interesting. I think that's often missing from the conversation. Yeah. So sometimes people will see numbers and be like, oh, I only need, I don't know the number on the top of my head. $600,000. $600K.

And then I'll be good to go. But they don't look at the fine print, like based on having a fully paid off house, based on taking a holiday overseas once every seven years yeah things like that years yeah yeah that means like when you actually look at what is it and then die like yeah so when you look at what's a comfortable retirement in Australia you have to actually like read the fine print because 600k is probably not enough once you hit retirement age so there's a lot of financial education that

has to happen around that too. So even though it's like a forced savings, which is fantastic for retirement, and I think it's like one of the best systems, but the flip side is there's still so much education that needs to go around it. And there's a lot of confusion. Even some of the terminology that we use in Australia is so confusing, like non-concessional versus concessional, which essentially is like pre-tax post-tax, but, um, the, the words get like used. They're very confusing and you know how the rules change all the time. So depending on when you're born, the rules are different as well. There's like other schemes that are kind of being phased out that people are still part of when they say preservation age, it like just reminds me of

a preserved jam jar. like you're preserving yourself. Like some of the language is like, why? Just call it retirement. Well, that was the big thing coming to Australia. Just all the language was different. Like calling something a scheme, calling something a scheme in Australia is normal. I'm like scheme.

Scheme sounds like you're going to get conned, like you're going to get scammed. And you're like scheme, I don't want to be part of a scheme. I don't want to lose my money. It's just the language is different too. Yeah, it's funny. Wow. Yeah, no, that's interesting.

That actually just brings to mind too, another really big difference. And I feel like Australia might be the only country that has that. And I was doing some research about it like a year ago for the speaking thing I did. Tasha, as a content creator creator you have to be licensed that is not something that exists in the U.S. and Canada let me tell you anyone can do anything and it's

a bit of the wild west there's pros and cons but you so when did this happen and what did you have to do to fulfill whatever you needed to fulfill to keep doing what you're already doing so we have this thing called the corporations act that was written in 2001 so it was written for newspapers not really on the online world so a lot of us thought we could fit under something called the media exemption. It's like all the news, like the news channels, the news sites, all the like publication stuff, they don't need to be licensed because it's media. I think books kind of fit under that as well, which is very interesting. But then like ASIC, our governing body came out and said that you have to be licensed to be doing what I'm doing online as a content creator, because you're technically running a financial services business. So back then I was making like

maybe 40 grand on the side of my Instagram. I was like working at the snow, doing a snow season. I was like part-time at uni and I was like, oh my God, I don't know if I want to do this. This is pretty hectic. But luckily a company reached out to me to become licensed. To get licensed, to give general advice, they make it really confusing as well. There's like factual information, general advice, and personal advice. To get licensed to give general advice, it's not that tricky. You just need someone to back you. So it's more like who you know and if you already have a name in the industry. To give personal advice, you need to be a proper financial advisor and do a degree in everything. So I'm licensed to give general advice, which is just what we do online, talking generally about things. And that was just

a few little short courses and just having someone pretty much say they will back my content completely. But yeah, it's interesting. It's not really made to be very accessible and it's all about who you know, which really sucks. Yeah. That's what I heard from some other people I know in Australia. It's like, it actually makes it really like lots of people that maybe did want to pursue a career or even something on the side, creating financial education content. They're not going to, because there's this big barrier now, which is really unfortunate because we need more education. Yeah. I got quoted up to 60 grand a year to be licensed. Yeah. And I was lucky because I already

had a platform so I could kind of like do a deal with them to reduce that cost because I can kind of like consult on social media and marketing and stuff like that now but yeah it's interesting because like where do people go who want to start now like there's no we're moving to another country yeah it's not like you can go to school and then you're licensed and you know what the rules are and everyone else is licensed at the same kind of level it's depending on what company you go to who's willing to license you and they can literally charge you anything for, for whatever that might be. Yeah. And they have their own rules. Like, so depending on who you're licensed with is depending on what you can actually say or do. Cause they might be able to license to talk about credit cards and, you know, mortgages,

whereas someone else might be licensed to talk about insurance. And so you can't talk about one if the other doesn't have it. It's very, it's very complex. That's a big difference as well. I had to get a credit license to talk about credit card points. That's bonkers. That doesn't make any sense. Like, I like the idea of having some checks and balances for people who are like giving advice or, you know, like I get that. I'm like, yeah, we should, we should have something like we should, because we have nothing right now. So anyone can say anything and just be be like well it was like they'll I don't know if you've ever seen this but people will like say you should buy the stock and then like their caption is this is not advice I'm like that was clearly advice though yeah so like that's not good because then

people will buy that stock and be like hey I lost money they're like I didn't tell you to do it you're like but you did the problem that's created now is people, there's not enough Australian voices actually telling you about Australian ETFs or Australian shares. So now people are listening to like the US or the Canadian content creators and buying like US listed ETFs

that probably aren't the most ideal for their situation because it creates interesting tax things for us in Australia. But there's nothing like really canceling that out here. No, that's- The thing is you can talk factually about things. You don't need a license to be factual. Everything is general advice.

Yeah. But, but besides that, it's general advice. So if I, you know, mention in this conversation, what exactly I invest in, that could be considered general advice. And if you make money from it. Yeah. If it's factual, but you make money from a business that's considered like you're talking about money and that's your main business or

whatever, then you are still a financial services business and need to be licensed, which is hard. So as soon as you monetize something, it's like, oh, you're a business now. So they just expect people to be on Instagram or have a YouTube channel, but not make any money from it. And then they don't have to be licensed because you're not technically doing services is that how you're just freaking out a little bit being like oh no but the newspapers they're fine because the newspapers here give so much advice sometimes they've got like advice columns and people will write in and people give them advice back but that's okay yeah that seems crazy to me that's it is well i'm sorry i have to deal with that i was just like yeah shocked at how

expensive a license i i was thinking like oh like, like, I don't know, a few hundred dollars. Yeah, because it's privatized. So like I, my background's in occupational therapy and as an OT here, you just register with like our bodies called APRA and you pay your licensing fee to them. They make sure you're qualified. You've got the right degree. If you get any complaints, they can suspend your license. But then with finances in Australia, it's private companies selling off like the license spots to people and they can just charge whatever they want that's insane like i in canada here so i wanted to get uh some credentials and a designation there's one called accredited financial counselor so uh did that and uh so i have those credentials it costs me i have to do

some continuing education but it costs me 90 bucks every two years just to keep that thing. Oh my God. Amazing. To be like, that's what it should be. $90. Yeah. You're like, that's reasonable. I could do that.

60. Yay. I don't think so. I don't know if I'd be doing what I'd be doing if I had to pay some money. Or I guess that's the other complex thing is if you have to be connected to another company, then there's, yeah, there's maybe things you can and cannot do. Do you have to get your content approved or you can do what you want? Do you have freedom in that respect? Yeah, I have freedom now, but I know what I can and can't say. So we had lots of discussions

initially and they audit my content and they will tell me if something's wrong, but I kind of know upfront now because my content didn't really change from me being licensed to before. So they kind of said what was okay and what wasn't. And I understand the guidelines. I just can't like push it or try anything risky. And they will always kind of like have the final say of what I do do you feel like there's stuff that you want to say that you can't say or you're you're like no this is pretty clear where I want to talk because I know a lot of the content you create is like your journey and like talk about investing and ETFs and things like that yeah like we had an issue recently where I was showing what I was investing in and they were like, Oh, maybe you shouldn't be doing that. But then also is it

like less, is it more dodgy to say, like to share something else that I'm not actually investing in because I can't say what I am investing in, even if they are like diversified, nice ETFs. So we had a bit of a discussion around that. It's just like more of the mental barrier of, can I be bothered today with it? Like, do I bother trying something slightly different or I'm just going to stick with what works, which is hard because you're not really trying to like innovate and do new stuff. You're just like, oh, I can't be bothered having like the conversations with lawyers and multiple different people if I could just.

And it's also like interesting when you think about like, like I make videos of me walking on the treadmill talking about investing stuff. And when you think about a team of lawyers watching that video and like going through it, it just feels odd. That's weird. Here's Tash in her sports bra. What book is she reading? Put up in the, like the thing on the boardroom being like, Hmm, did you do something wrong today?

Oh my God. She shouldn't have talked about all those ETFs. So yeah, it's more of a mental barrier rather than like an actual barrier. Cause I could have more conversations with them, but it's, yeah, it's annoying. One of the biggest challenges is actually like having open, transparent conversations, you know, in the same way that let's say we were out for dinner and the three of us can talk about what ETFs we're investing in, what our next strategy is, what we're planning on doing with our property, what, you know, and some of that can be seen as general advice. So you have to be careful about what you're talking about in what way instead of just

having a disclaimer. You actually have to be really careful. Jeez. Okay. Well, Canada's looking better and better. I mean, you know, sort of. It's cold here though. So, you know, it's gonna, it's getting cold here. So we're going into summer over here. So just come and visit. Ooh, that sounds nice. No, I'm enjoying right now we got fall so we got the leaves turning and stuff but then we get basically five months of winter and it's just hell so have you been to australia are you gonna come i mean i would love to have an opportunity to go to australia i've always wanted to go um it is a long flight so

what i'm honestly thinking because i am speaking of credit card points, and I know that's something that you also talk about, I am banking a bunch of points so I can see where I want to go. And I just feel like Australia is like, you're going to get the most bang for your buck because you're on that flight for so long. Getting that lie flat seat, that's like, you know, a hotel. So we'll see. If I do come, I will let you know let us know i would love to i would love to though my pale skin i don't know how y'all it's the things that scare me about australia is my pale skin and the spiders the spiders are scary uh you don't really say them that much i don't want to see them at all they're terrifying like i've seen them online and i'm like i'm sorry

they're as big as your hand i'm not i don't think i've seen them online, and I'm like, I'm sorry. They're as big as your hand. I'm not. I don't think I've seen them in Melbourne. Yeah. Maybe not the city. Maybe more outside. But I don't know. I've seen scary videos. I'm like, I'm never going there.

More around the city. Don't you guys have bears? Yeah. Yeah, they don't. Isn't that more scary? Well, I was just going to be like, no, they're not around. That's the funniest part. It's like bears can maul you, whereas spiders are.

I know. Spiders can spiders can't well there are some there are some deadly spiders to be fair and i'm actually deathly i can't stand spiders like like little ones will freak me out yeah bears do exist and actually i was just i was gonna say like oh they're not around i'm like actually there's bears in like my parents backyard but as long as you don't bug them just let them do their thing sometimes it can be pretty cute as long as you don't bug them. You know what I hate is cockroaches. Yeah, the cockroaches are gross.

The cockroaches are so gross. We were actually like at a venue the other day, the other night at the Fyre conference and like two little cockroaches scurried by. Were they? I didn't see that. Yeah, I didn't point them out. But, you know, as very Australian, you're like, yeah, they're everywhere. There's more bugs in like Southeast Asia from traveling around than where i've lived in australia like the north

of australia is different but you live like down south it's it's fine yeah so we'll see we'll see if i make it out there derailed your conversation no that's okay i'm i'm in sunscreen and a hat you'll be fine oh yeah i'll just be completely covered so i don't get a sunburn i know we we've talked about a lot of a variety of stuff. I hope we did some of the topics of your book justice, which I know we probably only like ultimately it is about how to design kind of the financial life that you want. And, you know, amongst all the restrictions that are out there, and sometimes it's hard to get the information you want, there's so much great information in this book in particular. So I wanted to just kind of give you both an opportunity to kind of share something that you think is really important that you put in the book that you want listeners to know about so when they pick it up, they can look forward to reading that

part. Sure. Some of the most, I think, important thing is just mindset stuff for all of us. Whether you're further down in your investment journey, or if you're beginning, or if you're just starting out, getting your mindset around money is really important because we all have hangups. Even though I've been doing this now for a while, even I have come across some money issues that I have, whether it's like, I don't know if I can earn more or like, what's my value or what do I want the future to hold? So it's important to kind of step back every once in a while, think about all of your money beliefs or myths that you've heard. What's holding you back to kind of achieve the life that you want? And mine is definitely just start. Like,

it doesn't matter like where you're investing, whether it's the US, Canada, Australia, like there's different ETFs, different platforms, but like you can find that out really easily if you want to. The biggest issue I find people have is not actually just giving it a go and trying and starting. I mean, you're proof that you literally started as soon as you could at 18 and look where you are now in your 20s. That must be so exciting. Like, are you like, I'm sure you have some projections and some ideas of where you're going to be because yeah, me and Anna, I mean, I'm in my late 30s. And I will say once you turn 30, like time just goes by so quickly. So setting up that foundation in your 20s is so important. But are you kind of excited for the future to see where are we going to go next? Yeah, it's been, yeah. Interesting on social media, it's hard to think too far ahead. Cause you're like, oh gosh, will this platform

even exist in like two months time? Probably not. Maybe. But yeah, I'm excited. Like I have kind of gotten to a point now where I've accepted that I've set up a really good base and it doesn't matter too much what I do unless I go and like never work again right now like I'll end up in a really good spot in the future and I'm glad I've done it already when I had more energy like I'm definitely less energetic now than I was when I was 18 so I'm glad I did a little hard work back then yeah that's that's always my piece of advice is like work as hard as you can in your 20s because it it is yeah the fatigue really does set in your 30s and then your 40s. And then, I mean, yeah, just life goes by so quickly. So I think you're such, yeah, an inspiration for,

like you said, getting started young and early. But, you know, me and Anna know also, if you're listening to this or watching this and you're like, well, I'm not 26 anymore, I'm not 18, it doesn't actually matter as long as you get started whenever you can. So if this is the moment, then this is the moment, right? Because I've seen lots of people who are in their 30s or 40s getting started and turn their entire financial life around. So it's really about having that good mindset and getting started as soon as you can. And life doesn't end at 60. I have some messages of people saying like, oh, but when I'm 60, like I'll be too old then when the average life expectancy is what, like over 80 now, like you've got a long amount of time, even if you start when

you're 30, 40 or 50. Yeah. I feel like people need to talk to more 60 year olds to actually get a sense of what it's like to be 60. Cause I think in our mind, it's actually more like 80 or 90, but 60 is if you're healthy and you're working out, we should also be doing lifting some weights. That's really important. Get that, you know, being healthy and stuff like that. 60 is not old. It is actually pretty young. There's some really young 60 year olds. And don't you want to enjoy it that time? My parents are heading there, which I think is pretty wild. Cause I always thought that was like my grandparents age, but now they're like 80 something, but they're still like working and living life and going on the boat and like doing all this fun stuff. Like they're still fine.

Yeah. Life is long, but you need to also, but speaking of life is long but you need to also but speaking of life is long you need to save for that because yeah yeah it's a lot of people they don't realize like oh i just have a few years of retirement you're gonna have decades you're gonna have decades you may live to 100 so make sure you prepare now right yeah um well thank you so much for coming on the show before i let you go where can people um find both of you online and and i didn't even mention you have that second book is right behind you. If you're watching the video, Kids Ain't Cheap. When did that come out? Not too long ago. I feel like we were just talking about like, yeah, the second

book already. Yeah, it's going to be one year on Halloween. So it's been out for a year. And then yeah, so Kids Ain't Cheap came out on Halloween. And then How to Not Work Forever came out, I think, in like June. So they were like eight months apart. Yes. That's a lot. Very fast. That wasn't like even a full pregnancy, you know, between those books. But yeah. And where can people, you're online, I found you online. Yeah, yeah. You can find me at Anna Christina is my handle on the socials. And I do the Get Rich Slow Club podcast with Tash. Yay. And my stuff is called Tash Invests online. So on TikTok and Instagram, we do the podcast together.

And Anna has a course coming out soon. Are you going to mention that, Anna? Oh, yeah. I'm doing a course for parents and finances. So let's chat. Yeah. It just doesn't get discussed enough. Yeah.

Yeah. So what does that, does that mean like preparing to start a family or when you have a family, how to organize the family finances? Yeah. It's a, it's a little bit of both. So just kind of planning ahead of time. There's a lot of things that you can do around parental leave and planning for your retirement, especially if you're taking some years off and how that impacts your earning capacity. But then also when you have a family, what are the things you want to do investing for kids? How are you going to think about your cash flow school options? Schools are very expensive. Sometimes if you go to private schools versus

public and how to navigate that. Ooh, that sounds great. Okay. I'll be looking out for that. Well, thank you so much Tasha and Anna for taking the time to come on the show. Loved having you on the show and I will let you know when I'm in Australia., for taking the time to come on the show. Loved having you on the show. And I will let you know when I'm in Australia. Thanks for having us and we'll see you soon. And that was my episode with Tash and Anna. You can make sure to follow Tash at Tash Invests on TikTok and Instagram. And you can follow Anna as well at Anna Christina.

I'm going to link to everything in the show notes for this episode where you can find them at jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast or jessicamorehouse.com slash the number of this particular episode. If you ever need help finding an episode, literally just DM me on Instagram or shoot me over an email. Happy to help. And of course, make sure to pick up a copy of their book, How to Not Work Forever, Start Investing and Build a Life You Love. And also pick up a copy of Anna's other book, Kids Ain't Cheap. I will link them again in the show notes for this episode. And you can check all of that out. And like I teased at the beginning of this episode, I will be giving away a copy of their book. So if you want to enter to win their book, or also I'm giving away copies of books,

all the books that have been featured on this season of the show. So if you go to jessicamorehouse.com slash contest, you can enter to win all of these wonderful books. And I will be drawing winners at the, probably at the beginning of the new year in 2025, which is crazy that we are getting there. We are getting closer to the end of the year, which is, you know, it's causing a little bit of a panic because that means we're just getting that much closer to my book actually hitting shelves and having people read it and review it. And I'm excited and terrified. This is just, you know, like I've kind of mentioned on the podcast, a very vulnerable book for me.

I talk a lot. I mean, I limit, I don't talk about everything. This is not a memoir, my gosh. But yeah, I do share some personal stuff I've never shared before. So yeah, exciting times being an author. My gosh, my gosh, very exciting. Speaking of this book, if you want to pre order my book that's coming out very soon, which is called everything but money, the hidden barriers between you and financial freedom, you can go to Jessica moreamorehouse.com book or honestly, just look for Everything But Money on all the major, you know, online book retailers. You can also call up your local bookstore and see

if you can pre-order through them or if they're going to carry it when it's on shelves because, you know, I'm a big fan of supporting local businesses. So make sure to support your local bookstore. Other than that, in case you don't know other things that I've got going on, and as we kind of get closer to the end of this year, I'm going to be starting the second cohort for my Budgeting Together accountability group. So I'm running the first one right now. The second one is going to run from January, February, and March. So if you're interested in learning more, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. And you can find, if you scroll down on the page,

there is a button that you can click on to learn more information and to pre-register. And if you want to get your budget together, because you don't have a budget maybe, and that's totally fine. I've got a bunch of budget spreadsheets you can download at jessicamorehouse.com slash shop. And you actually get access to all of my budget spreadsheets for free if you are a student in my Wealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course. So if you want to learn about my course, it's been around for almost four years now and has helped hundreds of people start building wealth by passive investing. And specific to Canadians, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash course. Again, just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash course. Again, just go to

jessicamorehouse.com. You'll find everything and everything and everything you could possibly want to help you with your finances. I've got it all there. And also I'm on Instagram. So please follow me if you're not already following me at Jessica I Morehouse. There we go. And the podcast has a Instagram too at More Money Podcast. So check that out. So that's really it for me. We only have a couple weeks left of episodes. So, you know, savor it because I'm going to take a little bit of a break at the end of December, early January, because I'll be in full book promo mode. But I will be back next Wednesday with a fresh new episode of the More Money Podcast. So until then, have a good rest of your week, weekend. I will see you back here next Wednesday with that episode that I promised to put out.

The More Money podcast would not be possible without the amazing talents of video editor Justice Carrar and podcast producer Matt Rideout, who you can find at MRAVCanada.com. dot com. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at women in media dot network.