More Money Podcast - 6 Switching Careers & Investing Like a Boss - Bridget Casey, Blogger at Money After Graduation

Episode Date: June 24, 2015

Bridget Casey, from the personal finance blog Money After Graduation, and I talk about graduating from post-secondary twice, becoming a dragon (à la Dragons Den) and investing in the stock market like a total boss. Long episode description: Not to say that all the episodes I’ve done up to this point aren’t my favourite, but I’ve got to say that I really loved interviewing Bridget from Money After Graduation. I may add a dash of sass to the personal finance world, but she adds a few cups at least! What I love about Bridget’s personality and her writing style is that she’s real, she’s super smart and she’s downright hilarious. I mean, not many people can make the topics of debt, going back to school and investing in the stock market seem entertaining and fun. In this episode, I start with asking about how Bridget’s childhood influenced her relationship with money, and from there we talk about how she went to university, got into debt, went back to university and essentially became a dragon from Dragon’s Den and a hard-core investor. I just have a feeling that in like 5 years she’s going to be an actual dragon on Dragon’s Den and this episode will be my claim to fame. You go Bridget! I’m counting on you! I mentioned a few resources and blog posts during the show, so here they are below. And remember, if you’d like to leave me a review on iTunes or Stitcher, I’ll give you a special shout out on a future episode! Also, as a continuation on the theme of investing, next week’s episode will feature Barry Choi from Money We Have (who I mention to Bridget on this episode). We’ll be talking about DIY investing and index funds, so make sure you tune in for that! Resources Bridget mentioned The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing Investopedia Yahoo Finance Market Watch Money After Graduation Millennial Money Spreadsheets Blog posts I mentioned Who I Am & The Story Behind Money After Graduation Switching Careers: My Story Shownotes: jessicamoorhouse.com/6 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Episode 6 of Mo Money Mo Houses. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and today I'm really excited to interview my next guest. Many of you may already know her if you're a big nerd and read personal finance blogs like I do, but her name is Bridget. She runs the blog Money After Graduation. And her blog's focus was a lot on, obviously, money after graduation. But what's interesting about her is she went to school, she worked a little bit, went back to school. And so we're going to be talking about school, student loans, and career. Because similar to me, she went to school for one thing and is working in something completely different right now.

Another thing we're going to talk about, which I'm really excited about, is investing because she was one of the few female investing bloggers. So I'm really excited to talk to her about that. So hey, Bridget, thanks so much for being part of the program. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. You're welcome. I'm excited too. Honestly, you are one of the bloggers that I've, I think, kept up with your blog for the longest, just because I think we started up around the same time, though I think you may have had a blog before that, but you've had your blog. I don't know. We feel like the originals. Yeah, I know. I don't want to be, yeah, but yeah, that's what I feel like. It's like you

were kind of there when I was there and it's kind of cool to see your blog, you know, progress over all these years. So let's kind of get into it. Let's start kind of from the beginning because I know I was recently on your blog and you wrote this really great blog post about kind of your story and where, like how you got interested in personal finance and growing up and all that kind of stuff. So let's kind of start from the beginning with Bridget. Okay. I know the post you're referring to, and I think I've mentioned before that it's something I'm just starting to share, like my childhood experience with money and how that's influenced my adult perspectives. Because for a long time, I was really embarrassed because I grew up fairly poor, not on the streets or anything.

But my parents didn't have a lot of money. Neither of them finished high school. They both had kind of low-paying jobs. And our family really, really struggled with money. And then my parents got divorced. And money became a huge thing in the divorce too. So as far back as I can remember, money was always a huge stress in my life. I remember worrying about it when I was nine years old and doing calculations on my loose leaf paper with a calculator worrying about money when I was

nine. That's unusual. Yeah, it was crazy, but it was just that level of... And I still, like, I didn't understand a lot of, like, where money came from or what. I just understood that things costed money, and we never really had enough of it. And we were always short money. And that was really hard for me growing up. But a lot of it is I didn't even realize that that was unusual until probably I was in my 20s. Because you grow up and you're like, oh, we don't have a lot of money, but no one else does. Every family struggles with money. This is just the way things are. And then I got to university and I realized that a lot of the

families and the lifestyles that I thought were rich growing up were actually just middle class. Interesting. Yeah, it was such a shocker. And I like didn't understand that people got to go on vacations once a year to like Disneyland. And I didn't understand that people had their educations paid for, like their parents were paying their tuition. Like none of it made sense to me. And I was just like, wow, well, you must be super rich. I still kind of feel like that sometimes. It's like, have you afford Disneyland once a year? Are you rich? But I'm just-

Yeah, it's true. It's true. And I was so like, I was so surprised. And then eventually I realized that they weren't rich. I was just a little bit poor growing up. So what happened through then is I had to pay for my university education. I worked part-time as a server and I, uh, I took out student loans and that's how I ended up with my massive student loan debt that inspired the blog. Of course. So I graduated owing almost $21,000. I think it was $20,586 I owed and I was working part-time at the Apple store making I think $15 an hour. That's a pretty good side job. I certainly did not make $15 an hour when I was working in university, but that's awesome. Oh, yeah. That's the other

thing I should point out is I'm from Alberta and everyone jokes like in Alberta that streets are paved in gold and money just falls from the sky, which is true. We do have really high wages here. Even the minimum wages are high. There's lots of jobs to be had. And then there's lower taxes. So you do have a lot of advantages of being in Alberta. So even though my situation was hard, I understand it probably wasn't as hard as other graduates or students experienced in other provinces. So you graduated with like $20,000 in debt, but did you, was it a hard time for you to find a job after graduation or? Yeah, it was actually horribly hard. This was a wake up call to me.

So I finished a bachelor of science degree in chemistry and I loved chemistry. I love science, but much to my dismay, no one wanted a new chemist. There were just no jobs for chemists when I graduated. A few of my friends moved out east and they got jobs in Toronto for things like paint companies, but there was really nothing in Edmonton or in Alberta for me. And that was really hard that I felt that I had worked so hard and spent all this money on this degree so I could get a better job than my parents. And then there was nothing. So I actually ended up doing one year of grad school in a master's of science, hoping that would make me more employable. Again, there was a little bit of a benefit to that in Alberta because I was actually paid a stipend, which was enough to live

on and have some extra money. So I did that. I got one year into it and I'm like, I can't do this. I hate working at a lab bench. What was I thinking? And I dropped out here into my master's. You know, actually I know someone who similarly did that. She did a, I think it was a biology undergrad. And then her kind of plan was to, I guess, be a biologist or whatever. Yeah. And so she did her master's, but I think she quit halfway through. She's like, uh, I do not like doing this. I thought I did, but I like learning it, but I don't actually like working in a lab. Yeah, it's so different than what you learn in the textbook. Science is really hard.

I have a great admiration for people that make it through and actually do research because it is like a mentally and emotionally challenging job. So yeah, what happened after that? I actually ended up getting a job at the university that I've been working at. And so I ended up in the faculty of engineering because they needed a girl that would promote science and engineering. So I ended up in recruitment and it was such a fantastic job. I loved everything about it. I loved getting women interested in science and engineering. I loved working with the undergrads and it was an awesome job. I think my starting salary was $50,000 and I had

a crazy pension, full benefits, and I only worked 35 hours a week. Wow. And then the summers were pretty slow. Yeah, it was like a dream job. That is like a dream job for a new grad, for sure. For sure. It was. It was the most amazing job.

I loved every minute of it. I actually managed to pay off my whole student loan. Oh, wow. While I was in that job. So the $20,000 was gone in two years at that job. And then I was like, well, cool. I have a great job. I'm totally out of debt. I've saved some money. I've traveled a little bit. I'm going to quit. As you do. When everything's working out, you make it more chaotic, of course. Yeah. And so, because what had actually

happened is during that time I had started money after graduation the blog and I know I was reading yours all the time and we were like the little group of Canadian female personal finance bloggers and I think I even met you as well I still yeah I remember you came to Vancouver and we all the Vancouver personal finance bloggers all met up with you right because that was the other perk of my job is I had to go to Vancouver twice a year. Very nice. They always flew me out there. So I was in Vancouver and I met you.

And so I'm writing this blog and getting so into money and finance, like so into it, as I think all of us did, that we're blogging. And I started investing in the stock market. And that was like the most exciting thing for me. I just loved it. Like I could not get enough of this. And so I had this epiphany that I was totally in the wrong career and I needed to go into business. I wanted to work in investment banking and trade stocks for a living because I loved it that much. And so I decided to go back to school for an MBA in finance. And I wrote the GMAT, applied to a bunch of schools across Canada. I got in everywhere. So I kind of had my choice, but I ended up staying in Alberta

and I went to the University of Calgary for my MBA in finance, which I've just finished as of last week. Oh my God, that's awesome. Congratulations. Thanks. Yeah. Two years later, I just wrote my last exam on May 6th. So I am all finished. And I passed, so it's all good. I'm a newly minted MBA in finance. And I just love that your blog is called Money After Graduation because you graduated several times. Yeah, I keep graduating. You just keep graduating.

Yeah, that was the thing too. I'm like two years after, I'm like, am I still relevant? I'm way out of school. And you know what? I just got another degree. Just keep going to school. Yeah, I can keep writing as long as I keep getting degrees. Yeah.

So that's kind of the story of money and how the blog came about and how I ended up where I am. Yeah. So when you were doing your MBA, were you also working or were you just in school full time? I was in school full time for the first year. So this is actually one of the aspects that made me choose the program at Calgary. I really loved it that your first year is like normal classes, 9am to 3pm or whatever, Monday to Friday. But in your second year, your classes are in the evening so you can actually work. And that was really, that was really awesome. So I just like went in, I did the first year and this site was actually making some money and I had a few like freelance projects to keep me afloat.

I also got a huge entrance scholarship. That always helps. Yeah. So I should mention that as well. So like my first year was like super cushy and it was awesome. And I just focused on school and went. And then the second year I actually did work full time through it while taking classes in the evening, which was hell. Yeah, that sounds awful. Because the only thing to compare to is I did a digital marketing

certificate program at U of T and it was just like one course a semester. And it was literally like one four hour class every Tuesday. And I was like exhausted. But you know, that's the worst. like the last thing you want to do after a full day of work is go to school. Yeah. And so I had two classes per week and then I also UFC has these crazy things called block week classes where you complete an entire course in five or six days at the start of the semester. That's intense. Yeah so I would take those. So I actually would take either unpaid leave or vacation time from my job the first week of the semester, pound out a class and then go back to full-time work and night classes. Yeah. No, like the last year I almost died.

It was the hardest. You need a vacation, I think. A long one. It's true. Yeah. No. So it was rough. So, but I do appreciate that I was able to work through the degree and like I did choose an affordable school and there was scholarships. So that made it considerably easier to manage my finance. And also I cared about finances this time around. Like when I did my undergrad, I just like got money and spent it. But this time I was careful, everything turned out all right, and we all survived. Yeah. So was the job that you were doing full-time while doing your second year of your MBA your real job right now? It is, yeah. So well, in the summer, I completed a four-month internship at a not-for-profit. And then after that ended, I got a job at a really cool small firm.

Because, of course, I had another one of those epiphanies where I wanted to change my whole life on a whim. So when I was in one of those horrible block week classes that were five days, the first week of September, and at this time, the MBA in finance was already like starting to burn me out. I learned finance was hyper competitive and crazy. Like all my classmates are going to be stupid rich, but it's so competitive. It's like you either get promoted or get fired every three years. And yeah, the atmosphere is just stressful. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I like, if I want to, thinking this is really scary, like I just stressful. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I want to go to the commonsphere. I'm thinking this is really scary.

I'm terrified. And so I took a block week class in what was called technology commercialization. And every morning, the professor would lecture. And then every afternoon, we would have guest speakers that were venture capitalists and entrepreneurs from Calgary. And these people would come in and they would tell these crazy stories of like, oh yeah, I built up this company from scratch and then I sold it for $10 million and it was so fun. I decided to go do it with another company. And I was sitting at my desk and I'm like, how is this a job? This is amazing. And it was so interesting and so cool. I just decided right there. I'm like,

this is what I'm going to do. I think I'm going to do this. And I have no millions. I have no idea how to run a company, but I decided. Not yet. You're young yet. I decided that was the job I wanted. And then just sheer dumb luck or serendipity or whatever, this job appeared that was for a small technology commercialization firm in Calgary where we are a startup incubator and a consulting firm to new businesses. And so I applied there, I got hired and I've been working there for seven months now. And it's just awesome because we do exactly that we take in early stage startups we build them up and then we sell them for tens of millions of dollars

that's awesome yeah yeah it's really cool and I also work I also work as a consultant so if entrepreneurs are trying to launch a new product. Because we get a lot of tech entrepreneurs in Calgary, lots of engineers that have created great tech products. That's a pretty big tech scene in Calgary, right? Huge, yeah. And it's really easy to get to California, too. Everyone's always flying between here and San Francisco. So there's really close ties with Silicon Valley and the whole startup scene there. And so they'll come in with a great tech idea that they need help with the business side

and the marketing. And I'll do a lot of that for them. And so that's what I do now. That is so cool. Yeah, it's like the real life dragon's den. That's how I describe it. That's awesome. Well, that's a pretty cool journey

from you wanting to be a chemist to now being a dragon I know it's weird huh like you never know you never know where you're gonna end up I mean I went to film school I tell people that all the time like I thought I was going to be a filmmaker guys I literally thought that was a job I know I know and I can't believe that because I know I remember reading your blog and your whole journey and now it's in a totally different place totally different I'm literally in a like I'm literally in a different place. I live in Toronto. I work in digital marketing. Like who, I could not have predicted this five years ago. That online for super prices and super savings.

Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. So kind of moving on, I think that is so awesome and inspirational for people, especially for people that, you know, millennials that go to school thinking they want to do one thing and then get into the workforce and realize,

oh crap, that's not at all what I thought it would be. I want to do something else and then get into the workforce and realize, oh, crap, that's not at all what I thought it would be. I want to do something else. And lots of people get scared. They feel like they should stick with whatever job they first get. Oh, they're terrified. Yeah, because they're like, oh, maybe it's me. Maybe it's not, you know. And it is a scary leap of faith to go back to school or just try a totally different career path. But I think ultimately, and I like, I swear by this, if you're unhappy at your job, you're going to be unhappy in your life. So you

just, you can't waste that time. It's true. And you can't be afraid. I used to have that all the time at the faculty of engineering. These kids were flunking out of engineering and they'd be crying in my office that their life was over. And I'm like, this is just one job. I know. You were just at the beginning, guys. I'm like, this is just one job. I know. You were just at the beginning, guys. I'm like, you can do anything. You're 19. Yeah. Nothing has happened to you yet.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, so I think that's super awesome. But I think one of the other really cool things that you talk about on your blog that I don't, I just don't know any other female personal finance bloggers that are currently talking about this is kind of investing and your experience with investing. Because I mean, for me, I'm all about like budgets and saving, but when it comes to investing, I'm still a super noob. And I hate that I don't really know anything about investing. I've read lots of books about investing, but it just does not sink in. So it's something that I think, I don't know, it kind of terrifies me and I'm sure it kind of

scares a lot of other millennial women. Yeah. Exactly what you said is always what I hear. Yeah. That's totally the voice of it. And I think what makes investing so scary is there isn't a guarantee when you make a budget or you save. You're dealing with really distinct numbers. You know exactly what's going to happen. And with investing, you don't. There's still this crazy chance that it will go either way, which is actually probably why I like it so much. Now that I've recited my story in one place, I'm like, oh, no wonder this is my thing. Because I'm like, let's just go and see what happens. And that's how I approached investing.

But I remember I wanted to get into investing probably when I was 22 or 23 years old. And I was dating this guy at the time. And I told him, I'm like, yeah, I'm getting interested in money. I think I should start investing. And he told me, you don't have enough money to invest. You need like $50,000 to get in the stock market. It's only for rich people. And I was like, yeah. And I was like, oh, and I kind of was like taken aback and I was like, okay, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have enough money. And so I actually didn't even start investing until I think I was 24 or 25. And it took me a thousand dollars to get it.

Yeah. Like honestly, like when I was just starting out too, I honestly thought you had to be, like have at least 50K in the bank or something crazy, or at least $10,000 to even consider like, you know, opening up a, like a mutual fund. Cause I'm like, you have to have money. I don't know. So I don't have enough money to invest, but I'll learn about it later. And then, yeah, I didn't start doing it until a little bit later in my 20s. And I think that's what holds a lot of people back, because there is this perception that rich people invest, therefore you have to be rich to invest. But it's actually the opposite.

You have to invest in order to be rich. And so I do want all young people to know that you can get started in the stock market with as little as like a thousand bucks. As soon as you have that first thousand, you can go open a brokerage account and you can start investing. And as for demystifying it, like you do have to be comfortable with seeing your money go up and down. And some people don't have the stomach for that. And some people never will. Like if you need to put your money go up and down. And some people don't have the stomach for that. And some people never will. If you need to put your money somewhere and always see it go up and any kind of debt makes you sick, you might not have the stomach for the stock market. And that's okay. Some people, they just don't want to take on that risk. But I think the average person can handle a

few ups and downs because the rewards are so tremendous. And I guess the key is also never invest money that you need, right? Like that's just kind of a basic. It's like if you need that money to pay rent, don't buy some stocks with it. And hopefully it'll double in time your rents do. Because there's no get rich schemes either. Sometimes people ask me that or they ask for like hot stock tips and I don't have them. There's no secrets. I've done all the work now. I have the MBA in finance and I can tell you there's no secrets. People that do get rich on their investments are either gambling recklessly

or they know something or they have a strategy. I think to someone that doesn't understand the markets or understand investing, a lot of it looks like it's just chance, but it's not. There's a lot of strategies there and a lot of those big wins, even if people were taking those big risks, they did something to hedge or protect their underside. So if it didn't work out, it wouldn't be a huge loss. And when you're a new investor, you don't necessarily know how to execute those kinds of strategies or you don't have the resources to protect yourself that way. And that's like one of the reasons for early investors. I just suggest like index ETFs. Yes, which is actually something that I want to get into because I think most of the money I have that's invested is in mutual funds,

but I actually just recorded a podcast episode with Barry Choi from Money We Have. Oh, yeah. He's awesome. I met him. Yeah. He's all about index funds. And so we talked about that. And then afterwards, he's like, I will give you this book that will explain everything. I'm like, I think I'm going to do this now. He sold me real hard. I'm like, I'm going to do it now. I'm going to take all my money out and put it in this. Awesome. Well, if you've tried mutual funds, you're already kind of accustomed to seeing the balance change every day. And honestly, that's the hardest part. Once you get past that, you're ready. And index ETFs aren't going to bite. Nothing else is going to happen.

Yeah. And this seems pretty simple. It's not over complicated. I think the thing with the stock market and all that stuff, especially for someone like me, it still sounds a bit scary because it does seem like it's higher risk. But I guess before you invest in anything, that's when you kind of look at, and there's a bunch of charts online, it's like, what is your comfort level with risk? Conservative. And there are stocks that are less riskier than others. For example, the first company I think I ever bought was General Electric. And I bought their stock at $19 a share. And I didn't really know what I was doing. I think I actually Googled something like safest stock to buy. I love it. And General Electric will come up. And so I was like, cool, that's it. And I dumped my $1,000

in that. And now when I look in it, I'm like, oh, obviously General Electric is a blue chip dividend stock. It's been around for over 100 years. It's never missed a dividend payment. It's so diversified. When you buy General Electric, it's like you're buying an ETF or a mutual fund because they have business in every industry. So it's a really well diversified, super safe company that pays you a steady dividend. It's a great stock. But I didn't know that when I started. I just Googled super safe stocks and that was it. But now looking at it, I'm like, wow, that was a great pick. That was awesome. And so it worked out well. So there are

stocks out there that are quite safe and then there's other ones that are not. But you can invest directly in companies and stocks and still see the kind of safety and returns that you do in a mutual fund or ETF or even better without putting your money at more risk. So I guess what you need to do before starting anything is do your research. So where would you, what direction would you point people that are kind of interested in going this way to start research? Well, the first place is going to be my site. Of course. Plug. That's actually what I'm working on now is developing resources to kind of demystify the stock market for young people that are looking to get into investing. And I do have quite a few posts on it. And I'm looking at putting it together more coherently in an e-course that I'm hoping to launch maybe

next month. But that's going to have the resources to really help you out. And then this other places you can go is honestly to just take out a book on investing. There's some really great ones out there. I love the Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. That was one of the best ones that I've read. And then also it's just getting familiar with the market by visiting sites like Yahoo Finance and Investopedia. And just like create that habit and make it part of your day to keep on top of things. Yeah. And it totally depends like how into it you want to get. Like one of the things I always suggest people do is just create a fake stock portfolio. And you can do this on any of those sites like MarketWatch or whatever.

You can just add stocks to your watch list and just watch them for three months or six months. I created this for a year before I got in the stock market. And I just watched a portfolio of fake money for a whole year. And that kind of gives you an idea of what will happen. Like, it doesn't feel the same as real money. You'll treat your real money totally different. But at least you get used to seeing you're like, which of these did really good? Which of these did really bad? Okay, why? And you can take a look at it. And there's no risk in that because it's just pretend. And that's one of the best introductions to the stock market.

Yeah. For sure. Awesome. Well, I think we'll kind of wrap it up. Thank you so much for being on the program. I feel like I know so much more about you and investing. I'm kind of excited. I'm going to look at all of those spreadsheets that you have on your website right now.

Yeah, there's so many spreadsheets. I'm so curious because I also kind of just love looking at how other people budget or just like organize their money because I know everyone has their own different way. You know, it's personal finance because it's personal. I know I probably do it way different than other people. So I'm kind of excited to see what you've got. Yeah, I think mine get pretty technical compared to some other ones out there. Fair enough. I think you've earned that right with a financial MBA. You can do what you want.

Okay, awesome. Well, everyone, if you want to check out Bridget's blog, make sure you do. It's moneyaftergraduation.com. And she's also on Twitter. I love your tweets, by the way. I think you're really great. Money After Grad. Yeah, so thanks so much for listening, everybody.

And tune in next Wednesday for another episode. after grad. Yeah. So thanks so much for listening, everybody. And tune in next Wednesday for another episode. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.