More Money Podcast - From the Archives: Relistening to Danielle Town Explain Value Investing

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Where do you even start with investing? This was the question Danielle Town had when she realized she needed to grow her money and find a path to financial independence because her job as a lawyer was leading her to full-on burnout. Cut to her going on a learning journey with her dad, a well-known motivational speaker, author and hedge fund manager, to discover all the ins and outs of building wealth through value investing, and sharing everything she learned in her New York Times bestselling book Invested.This episode originally aired on December 18, 2019.To find the original show notes for this episode visit jessicamoorhouse.com/221Follow meInstagram @jessicaimoorhouseThreads @jessicaimoorhouseTikTok @jessicaimoorhouseFacebook @jessicaimoorhouseYouTube @jessicamoorhouseLinkedIn - Jessica MoorhouseFinancial resourcesMy websiteMy bestselling book Everything but MoneyFree resource libraryBudget spreadsheetWealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey More Money Podcast listeners, this is your host Jessica Morehouse and I want to let you know that I'm coming to Saskatoon on my book tour on Wednesday, April 16th to celebrate the release of my best-selling book, Everything But Money. And I want to see you there. It's free, it's going down at McNally Robinson, and you can save your seat by registering at jessicamorehouse.com slash book where I've got all my book tour info listed. Not only that, on that page you'll also find info about how you can access all of my exclusive book extras for free, which include special videos, audio, and worksheets. All you've got to do is give my book a rating or review online. To learn more and to grab a copy of everything but money,

visit jessicamorehouse.com slash book. Have you ever finished a book and just needed to talk about it immediately or wanted to know the wildest research and author has done for a book or even what book talk books are actually worth your time. Hi, I'm Morgan book. Yes, that is actually my last name. And this is off the shelf my new podcast that covers everything related to books. Each Thursday, I chat with other bookworms and authors or sometimes it's just me rambling about my

latest book obsession from book to screen updates to hot takes on new releases and of course, our monthly book club discussions. I've got you covered. So get your TBR list ready and listen to off the shelf wherever you get your podcast. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Hello, hello and welcome to the More Money Podcast. I am your host Jessica Morehouse, and for this episode, we are re-listening to episode

221, which originally aired December 2019. But it was just one of my favorite episodes that I did that year, and honestly throughout the whole 10 years of the podcast. I really enjoyed interviewing Danielle Town. So she's the co-author of the book, Invested, and the subtitle is kind of long, but I think it helps because invested that could be anything. It's Invested, How I Learned to Master My Mind, My Fears, and My Money to Achieve Financial Freedom and Live a More Authentic Life. I feel that's such a great way to describe what this book really is about because she takes you on a journey.

It's not just a how-to handbook. It really isn't. It's more of a narrative style book where you walk alongside Danielle from beginner investor knowing nothing, and then she slowly learns about investing, specifically the strategy of value investing from her dad who serves as her mentor and her teacher. And he's a very well-known value investor

and investment coach. And very lucky to have a dad who's an investment coach today. And it was just a really good read. Like I really, really enjoyed it. And so I really like, I'm like, I'm going to ask her to be on my show, but 2019, I'd only had my podcast for a few years and I wasn't sure if I had that much pull. And yeah, she agreed to be on the show and it was lovely. And even though personally, I'm not a value investor, that's not how I invest my money,

I'm a passive investor, it was really interesting just to learn this different strategy and how to do it if you want or just learning about different ways you can invest even if it's not something you want to pursue just so you have that information and you know more about it. And it was just a really lovely book and a really lovely interview, she was really inspiring and became a New York Times bestseller and is still a very popular book. So I can't wait to share this episode with you. And I just want to say this for if you listen to this, the day of it coming out, which this episode is coming out on April 16th, I just want to let you know in case you don't know, I'm going to be in Saskatoon today at McNally Robinson, 7pm. So you can just show up, but

ideally you would register so I have your email and I can let you know what's going on. I can send you information. JessicaMoorHas.com.com slash book is where you can find the eventbrite link. But I'm doing my sixth book tour stop for Everything But Money. And I would love to see you there. If you're in the Saskatoon area, come to McNally Robinson. JessicaMoorHhas.com slash book is where you can find more info. If you listen to this the day after, then you missed the event. I'm so sorry. But just thought I'd put that out there in case you listen to me in the morning and you're

like, oh, hey, I'm free this evening. I'll stop by. Please do. I'd love to see you and say hi. So anyways, we've got a great re-listing episode for you. So let's get to that interview with Danielle Town. Have you ever finished a book and just needed to talk about it immediately or wanted to know the wildest research an author has done for a book or even what book talk books are

actually worth your time? Hi, I'm Morgan book. Yes, that is actually my last name. And this is off the shelf my new podcast that covers everything related to books. Each Thursday I chat with other bookworms and authors or sometimes it's just me rambling about my latest book obsession from book to screen updates to hot takes on new releases. And of course, our monthly book club discussions I've got you covered. So get your TBR list ready and listen to off the shelf wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere, acast.com.

Thank you, Danielle, for joining me on the Mo Money podcast. Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm thrilled to have you. I devoured your book I thought was very interesting. As I mentioned before, I hit the record button. I've done a lot of episodes, had a lot of people talking about investing on the show, but I haven't really had anyone on the show to talk specifically about the investing strategy value investing. I don't know why. Maybe it's my own

confirmation bias. I keep on having guests on this show talking about passive investing, right? I'll tell you why. It's because it's a lot easier to tell people just to go do passive investing. It's a lot easier to say, and it's a lot easier to hear too, I think, for people to hear, oh, I can just go buy an index, which means it tracks a whole bunch of stocks all at the same time and you only have to buy one thing and you don't have to really think about what you're buying too much. It's easier to tell people to do that and it's easier to do that. So the advice, and frankly, Warren Buffett, the godfather of value investing, tells people

to go buy an index. He does not recommend that you buy stocks yourself. The reason for that is, in my opinion, one of it's just a complete shortcut. It's okay if you're not going to spend the time to actually know what you own, then go be somebody who knows nothing and go do the easiest thing. Frankly, I love that advice. I'm all about it, guys. But I found out that if I owned stuff that I didn't understand, I immediately became super worried about what was going to happen with the market, what was going to happen with that particular index.

Without understanding it, you just get scared. It's just up and down for no discernible reason. That's not a good way to live. I found that for me, for my own peace of mind, I have to understand what I own and why I own it. As long as I do that, and it actually is not that much work, then it actually makes my life better. It becomes something that I call a practice. I treat it as a practice in my life to study investing and to study companies.

It's become this way for me to have a 4D view of the world, seeing this investing layer over everything else that has taught me about the world around me. It's taught me about my values. It's taught me about what I want to literally support with my money. And to me, that is a much better way to live than with your head in the sand ignorantly buying something that you don't know why it's happening or what's happening. Yeah. No, that's definitely something that I kept on thinking about while reading your book was value investing. It's all about buying something that has good value, but also about

your personal values, which has been a topic of conversation, I think, that keeps coming up in the personal finance world, which I think is great because like you said, a lot of us are investing. We may not really know what are in those index funds or ETS. We may not know all the companies listed. We're just kind of following this one strategy, which is fine, but we should be paying more attention to who, like, you know, kind of we're voting with our dollars. Who are we supporting? And I think we need to pay way more attention to that.

So that's definitely why I was reading them like, hmm, I really am excited to kind of try out, you know, kind of the practice that you kind of laid out in your book. Because I think it's really interesting how you laid it out kind of so someone can kind of replicate it and kind of go through, you know, the checklist that you've made and all that kind of stuff. I think it's a really interesting know, the checklist that you've made and all that kind of stuff. I think it's a really interesting practice, even if someone doesn't want to become a value investor after, I think it's a great thing just to try out and get more familiar with it because a lot of the things in value investing you can apply to other strategies of investing

is just about becoming more knowledgeable about investing in the end. Exactly. It's so as you said, my book goes step by step through the process that I went through of learning about investing from knowing absolutely nothing and really wanting nothing to do with it, quite frankly, to then discovering that it was actually something that could add value to my life

and where I could put my money into companies and ideas and goals that I really support and want to have my money supporting. And then the step by step to finding really good companies and when to invest in them. And so somebody who reads the book can follow that process quite easily. And by the end of the book, you will know what to do. But it's also just a fun read. I really wanted to write a book

that was fun that made investing sound interesting because it is. And so many investing books are so boring and I just can't stand to read them. I've had so many people I've met say to me like, oh, you know, I have your book on my list, but I just don't really feel like reading an investing book. I'm like, I get it, but I wrote this book to be completely different from any other investing book. So the idea is that you should have a good time reading it and enjoy it. And then if you, whether you start to use the principles

or not, I think what you said is exactly right, Jessica. These ideas of finding companies or investments, which could be like, apartment buildings, it could be houses, which could be like apartment buildings, it could be houses, it could be private companies, it could be investing in startups, these values are the type that can be used to determine a company or I should say an investment that you understand that has good management

and that has strong competitive advantage and that you get at a good price. Those are the most basic principles that come straight from Charlie Munger who's Warren Buffett's investing partner and you can use those principles for absolutely any kind of investment. So it doesn't have to be, you know, I want to go become an expert on public companies. It can be used for any kind of business. I've also had friends who run businesses who have said to me like, I'm using those principles to actually run my business better. Because if as investors are looking for those kinds of things, of course, if you're running your own business, you want it to live up to those principles. So it's a really flexible strategy and it's one that's just helpful to know

about for living your life. And that's the cool part of it. Yeah. So what I really enjoyed of your book, because you went through your whole process of going from total beginner to now being a value investor and confident and knowledgeable about what you're doing is clear in the book, there's a big learning curve. I actually appreciated that because like you said, a lot of these investing books that are out there, they do describe lots of things you talk about, but in a way that is sometimes hard to digest. So how were you able to actually, and you took a year in this book that's kind of the timeframe, which I really enjoyed. Because yeah, sometimes

it can take a year or two years to really get it. What were you able to do? When did it click? When did things start to click for you? I think things started to click around, I kind of had two clicks. There was one that was around like month four-ish, and then there was another one that was around month six-ish. So what happened to me is that I,

so I'm a startup lawyer by training, and I was practicing law in Boulder, Colorado, and loved what I did, loved my work, loved my colleagues. Everything was good, except that I was just working so much that I was getting completely burnt out and exhausted. And like, my hair started falling out and I started not being able to digest food. Like, my stomach just didn't work and I started taking all these pills and, you know, homeopathic aids. And I went to acupuncture and I was just doing everything just to function

because I was just under so much stress and I was so exhausted. And that is not a rare story. I mean, I would say most people I know have some kind of lifestyle along those lines, and we just think it's normal. I thought it was normal. And so I went to the doctor when my stomach

was having all these problems and she said, well, I think you might be stressed. And I said, I said, no, I don't feel stressed. And I really meant it. I really meant I did not feel I couldn't even feel what was happening to me. And so my dad, who's an investor, said to me, you know, you may not be able to keep up this job for much longer because of your health. And if you can't, what are you going to do to take care of yourself? I said, well, I have no idea. So he said, okay, you need to learn the basics of just

how to invest. And he had tried to teach me this stuff a few times before when I was younger, but it didn't work. And to answer your question, this is how I started to figure out that I needed to find my own way into investing and into companies and financial statements and all the stuff related to investing. I needed to find a way that worked for me. And I am not a financial type of person. I didn't go into finance. I don't love numbers. To this day, of person. I didn't go into finance. I don't love numbers to this day. I am not super comfortable with financial statements. That's just who I am and that's not going to change. So how do I as somebody who is very smart in many ways, I'm not trying to put myself down, but I'm aware that I have strength and weaknesses, how did I get into this?

I said to my dad, who loves spreadsheets by the way and is like a total numbers guy, I need to be able to ask you any questions that I want so that I can just find my own way into this and basically teach it to myself. To his credit, he said, okay, absolutely. Then we started a podcast together so that we would actually have to talk to each other about it, which worked very well. And so the way that I found that worked for me and was number one, just being me and saying, okay, I'm not going to become somebody different. I'm not suddenly going to become interested in finance.

I'm not suddenly going to start loving watching CNBC and have people yell at each other on my TV. Like that's not my favorite thing. And yet, I love companies. I love entrepreneurs. I love exciting new products and services and people who are trying to change the world. That was my world and I love that kind of stuff. So how do I take that interest and turn it into an interest in public company investing or really any kind of investing? And I realized that I can learn the numbers stuff that they're like, I'm smart enough, we can all do it. I promise we can learn those that stuff. It's just a matter of sitting down like math class and teaching it to yourself. But the rest of it, we like non-numbers, we non-finance people, we sort of, I call us like normal people. We actually have skills that the financial people don't have. And we don't know it because they run this side of the world. And we are

generally told we're not good enough and we're not smart enough and we need to just pay them money or go buy an index fund Because we're not gonna be able to do it. That is not true We have skills around finding great people around finding managers that are really doing a good job with companies We have skills around finding companies with wonderful values With missions and purposes that are doing things that I really want to support with my money missions and purposes that are doing things that I really want to support with my money, literally. My money, when I invest in a company, when I buy stock in a company, my money literally

is supporting what they're doing. So how can I ethically put my money into something that I think is doing bad stuff in the world? I can't. And if I own an index, then it probably is supporting companies that I don't actually want to support. So with these sort of sides, these sort of softer skills, and then also the skill of starting from zero and learning how to invest all the way to the point of becoming really competent at it, is an experience that most experts don't have, which sounds weird, but it's true because they come into it

from sort of a higher level than we do. So they skip all the parts where it's scary and it's like up and down, and you don't wanna be involved with it, because they're like excited by that stuff. They love the game and the up and down, and I can't stand it. So for us, we actually are able to process the fear

and the greed that you naturally go through as an investor by learning it step by step. And that is a massive advantage over these people who have maybe never experienced a loss. And then when they do, they go nuts and they freak out and people do terrible things to themselves. So we have so many advantages just actually by not being naturally drawn to this practice that gives us the ability to really work through those challenges and do better in the long run. Yeah, I know. I think that's one thing that I always find very interesting,

unless the investing books out there, they never really talk about the emotion of it all, but investing is very emotional. And that is a big reason why so many people don't get started. I talk to normal people all the time. I'm a normal average person. I kind of think I don't come from a business or financial background. I do this now, but that's not where I came from. I went to art school. So I feel you. Yeah, totally. I studied religion. Yeah. Yeah. It's like very different background. So for me, like you, I really related to that and that yeah, there was a big learning curve and I for years would just write

or talk about general personal finance. I'd never dive into investing because I was, it just felt like it was too difficult or too complex and the people that I would talk about it who did know about it didn't make me feel any better about it exactly. And so I really appreciate you kind of talking about going from ground zero to actually learning this.

And yes, it is kind of sometimes hard. And there's like sections where you talked about just not understanding this one thing you just could not is just like this roadblock. You're just like, you can't get over it. Or I like how you described it as like, as if there was a fog. I'm like, that's exactly what I used to think.

It's like, there's this fog in front of me and I cannot see the other side. But eventually you can walk through it, but it does kind of take, you know, time, patience and like not quitting your kind of own investing practice. What were some things that you do, you did to kind of overcome some of those barriers of just like not getting something? Well, so there were a couple points, as you said earlier, there were a couple points that were really turning points.

And the first one was just getting into it at all. And that's where information helped me. So I found out that inflation is steadily destroying the value of my savings because I had thought, well, I'll just save money and I'll be, you know, that'll be fine. And I'll sort of figure it out later, because retirement felt very far away to me. And so I thought that was honestly the smartest thing to do. I was kind of a genius. I just hide my money under my mattress and move on. And then I found out that inflation actually lowers the buying power of our money steadily over time.

As long as there's inflation and we've been in very low inflation for quite a few years now, but on average it's about 3%. So every year that means that with me doing nothing wrong, the value of my money is going down by about 3% for me doing nothing wrong. And I had no idea that that was happening. It was like they didn't teach that to me in fifth grade for some reason. So when I found that out that basically I have to invest just to make 3% a year just to stay even, that is what got me into this. And then I found out that the power of compounding makes it such that the earlier you start, the more money you make in an exponential kind of way. So there's

really no time to lose. Another thing that got me through a hard time is really, as I mentioned earlier, paying attention to my emotions. So I was kind of, I was learning, I looked for missions with my companies that made me really excited about it. And as I moved forward and I was kind of like, all right, I was like looking at companies, I found companies that I loved that had great missions at the time for me that was Whole Foods, because I shopped there and spent a ton of money at Whole Paycheck and found out that they were public and found out that I could buy them and fell in love with them. So that was really exciting.

But I still, to be totally honest, felt not 100% connected to this practice. It still felt something like, okay, this is sort of a finance-y thing that I'm doing. And I actually sat down and really like literally sat at my dining room table and thought, what is going on inside of me with this? And I realized that I had had this block because my dad was teaching me. And my dad is somebody obviously who handled the money

as I grew up. My parents got divorced when I was about 11. My dad left basically, and he essentially took the money with him. Our lifestyle changed dramatically. As I sat there, I remembered that happening. I had, of course, remembered that happening many times because of all the divorce stuff. But I don't know, it's so funny the way our memories work.

I had never thought about it from the point of view of what happened with the money until that moment, until I had started to really engage with my money for the first time with this investing practice. I had not remembered that that experience had happened. And here's my dad, like teaching me about money. So I didn't feel like I trusted him. And that's what the block was. That's what was stopping me from getting really into it. And that was really, God, it was so painful to go through. I can't even tell you. It hurt physically. I mean, because I love my dad. And by the way, he, so that did happen. He did leave and my parents went through a massive war in their divorce, as divorces can tend to be. But then eventually they actually fired both of their lawyers and sat down in a room with a mediator and

worked it out. And he, you know, once he realized that he had been affecting our lifestyles, he came back and made sure that we were taken care of. So, um, I don't want it to sound like my dad like never came back or anything, but he, he did. And he feels terrible about that happening. And so because I went through this process of really seeing like, what is it about this money that is causing problems within me, I ended up talking to him about that. We had never talked about it.

And we, for the first time, really got through that part. I heard his perspective. I heard some stuff that happened that I had never heard before. And we were able to kind of work through it and connect on a new level. And from there, it was like full on. Like I was all into the investing practice. I didn't feel any more blocks about it. In fact, it had helped me. It had opened up this new part of my relationship with my dad and my own ability to take care of myself and to connect to my family. And we talked about his parents and my mom's parents and what they did with their money and how that affected them and, and how

they think about money and how that affected me and how I think about money. It's amazing how deep this money stuff goes. And the only way that I've found to engage with it is to engage with it. It will not come up otherwise. And since the book has come out, I've heard from a number of people who have said that they also have been through this experience of once they started their investing practice, it brought up old stuff that they really had to work through. And that can sound kind of like maybe you don't wanna do that. And I can understand that. But I also think we're here to do better in our lives and we're here to be happier.

And if there's stuff holding us back, keeping us away because we're afraid or we have trauma from the past, which frankly most of us do around money, then let's go for it. Let's work it out and let's make it so that our lives can be better and our children's lives can be better. It can really be a shift that we can make for our families, not just for ourselves. So that was a huge turning point for me. Yeah, no, I really, really enjoyed that part because I definitely identified with that.

I'm sure it sounds like a lot of other people have in that we all have our own issues with money. And I think, and I get this from a lot of people I talk to that don't think that they are worthy or can change their financial situation probably because, well, my family's always been like this, so that's how I'm going to be or whatever the case. We all have our money issues. And I definitely identified with the whole, you know, you kind of mentioned in the book, you and your father have issues with, or he specifically

talked about like his issues with his parents and money and that they never really wanted to be wealthy or there was a negative connotation to wealth. And that is obviously a huge roadblock in building wealth through investing. And I think a lot of people that come from maybe, you know, grew up lower income or middle income have issues like that. I used to definitely think of that. I mean, yeah, I grew up pretty frugally. And so the idea of having more money as an adult is a nice idea, but actually putting that into practice, that's actually a hard thing to kind of digest because you're like, do I deserve it? What does this mean? Will I not relate to people in my community anymore? All that kind of stuff. And it doesn't feel real. It feels like something other people do, not something that you do.

Because you've, you know, we've never seen it, we've never been around people like that, they sort of seem like other people, or maybe they even seem like bad people, people you don't want to be like. And that stuff can really, in a deep way that you don't even recognize, can hold you back. And that's not good. Like, we are the people who should be stepping up. And money equals power, right? So we need to have the power. When I say we, I mean like younger people, I'm gonna specifically say women, we need to step up and take our power

because nobody's gonna give it to us. And this is a way that we can do it from home, on our own, using our own skills and interests. And it's an extraordinarily empowering thing to do. Absolutely. And one thing I found really motivating too, in your book is you do, you know, we talked a little bit about values, but also like your why, like why are you doing this in the first place? And I tried out you on your website, have a your number calculator, which I suggest everyone try out. I think that's kind of a great starting point because a lot of people have this

hard time of really understanding like, what does it mean to invest or how much can I build? But they're also like, but why? Like, I don't even know why I'm doing this. And well, typically, the reason you invest is so you can become financially independent or have enough for retirement. But most people have no idea what that actually looks like, or that means What is that number? How I know that was kind of a big part of the book, figuring out your number. Do you want to kind of talk a little bit about how you were able to kind of determine that? Cause I know for you specifically, so

you could kind of retire early or maybe not work as much for your health reasons. Yeah. So I was trying to figure out how much I needed so I could retire early. And I will tell you, the numbers are sobering. It's scary when you start to look at it. I think I'm going to forget now because I will tell you, I don't remember numbers. And that's just, maybe it's a failing of mine, but I actually kind of think it's a benefit because I don't get sucked into all these numbery things that financial people do, which I've really noticed in the last few years. It's been a very interesting observation for me. So other people seem to know exactly how much they've made or lost. And I'm like,

I don't really have a clue. So I'm not attached to it as much. So I don't really have a clue how much I need for full-on retirement. But I do remember, I think it was around like five million is what I needed to have in the bank to have, I think, 150,000 a year, something like that. That's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. Like that doesn't sound like real money, you know? It doesn't sound like real money. That's true. And then if you want to, you can start to build out how you get there. And if you look at how much you can make investing and what this strategy can do, if you do it right, it can get you 15% a year. That's the goal, 15% a year. There are value investors who have made 20%, 25%, 30%, but that's a lot.

Typically the market will return 5% to 7%. The market has been going nuts in the last few years, so it's been returning way more than that. But on average, and it will average out at some point, it returns about 5 to 7%. So if we're looking at 15% a year and you can find these charts in the book, you can really, depending on how much you start with and how much you're willing to put in every year, and it doesn't have to be a lot, it can be a few thousand, you can get to that number pretty quickly. But you have to start now. That's the problem. Also, even if you don't have, let's say, any money to invest with right now, let's say you have student loans

or you're trying to buy a house, these are real things that happen to us and that are equally important. I was trying to pay off my student loans when I started. So I didn't have an investing fund. I had some savings. Like I said, I was kind of hiding it under the mattress and that was kind of my emergency fund but I hadn't really, I had never really thought about investing. So I didn't have any sort of money put aside for retirement or investing in any particular way.

It just seemed very very imaginary to me. And so I was trying to pay off my student loans and I just decided, okay, I actually need to think about this first of all. And I need to, for me, I needed to pay off my loans first because that was just a big emotional block for me. I felt like I couldn't go forward. And different people have different ways of handling debt like that. And some people do both. And that's, I think, probably a very good recommendation to pay down your debt with maybe

half your savings and then keep the other side for the investing. Other people need to just go full on, pay off the loans and then move on and still others just hold the loans. Other people need to just go full on, pay off the loans and then move on and still others just hold the loans. So you know, you have to think about what's right for you. And I'm sure you give advice about this Jessica much better than I do because I'm not a personal finance expert. But I just paid off my loans and then went straight to investing. And the way that I did that actually was I took a huge leap was I sold my house and my house had gone up in value so much. And there's another investment that I made by the way,

which turned out really well for me, that I was able to pay off my loans and still have a really good amount leftover for investing. And that's how I did it. So I did not expect to make such a drastic change in my life at all. It's pretty extraordinary when you start a practice that opens up your life in this way. Things just sort of happen. They sort of like come to you. It's really amazing. And I had felt so closed and very much head down, working as hard as possible and saving money and just doing everything I could.

And I just felt like I was treading water and getting nowhere. And then all of a sudden, I, well, first of all, I met a guy who lived in Europe. So that was a big change. And then, and then, and then I just realized I was so burnt out. I didn't really want to do that job anymore. And so that's when I decided to go all in, sell my house. I moved in with my mom, which is not a typical way of success in life. But I felt like I was the happiest and most successful I'd ever been in my life and I ended up getting married and moved to Switzerland and that's when I wrote the book. Whoa! That is a big change. It was a huge change and it's been awesome. It's just been, you can't plan this stuff. So yeah, there's just something about really like having a different view that sort of takes you out of that, this is my life and there's no other options viewpoint. And for some reason, investing does that not just for me, but for so many people that I've heard from about, they start to

look at companies and they start to see the opportunities around them and it leads them to a different job, or, you know, it leads them to want to take more time with their kids and they're able to do that because now they have dividend income or something, you know, there's just all sorts of stories. And it's really amazing the way the universe supports you. Yeah, I think it sounds like what you're saying is that for the first time ever, you kind of really just stopped and took a look at what you're doing through your life. Because I totally understand. I remember being in that grind where you're just like working, working, working. You're like, what am I even doing? I don't even know how I got here or what I'm working towards. So taking that time to really reflect me like, where am I right now? And where

do I want to go? And what should I do to get to where I want to go? I think so many of us just get caught up in the busyness of life. So it was important to take that time to really figure out what are we doing with our lives? Because then you probably, you know, if you hadn't done all of the things that you did, take that time to be, I want to invest. You probably wouldn't be where you are right now, which seems like in a much, you know, happier place. And I remember sitting there and thinking, so I was in a law firm and the whole point of working your way up in a law firm is to become a partner. And I remember sitting there thinking about the partners in my firm and did I want to have

their lives because otherwise what's the point of all this work and dedication? And I realized, God, you know, they don't seem really that happy. And I'm not sure I actually wanted that. They're wonderful people and I hope that they're very happy. But you know, I didn't see it that much. And I just thought, God, what am I doing? I got to get out of this. Yeah. And it sounds like also another important thing is, and I felt like this too, and I think it's very relatable too, is that you for the kind of first time were finally taking responsibility

for your current financial situation and also any kind of first time, were finally taking responsibility for your current financial situation and also any kind of future decisions, which I think is another big thing that I see with a lot of people. They kind of let things happen to them instead of take ownership of them so they can kind of move forward with some, actually take control.

Because it sounds like your life right now is because you were taking responsibility and took control of your life. That is such a beautiful insight, and I've actually never thought about it like that. But I'm glad that you said that. You're exactly right. Such a smart thing. Yeah, you're right. I completely went from being passive and felt like a victim all the time to, and not with my work necessarily, but yeah, with the money coming in and what was going to happen in the future, I did not have control. And now I do, absolutely. And I think it's not just

about the mindset of taking control, it's about actually having the skills and the knowledge to be able to confidently and intelligently, so that you won't screw up your future, take that control. I think that makes a huge, huge difference to the way that you feel about yourself and how much power you have over your own life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, that's the main reason

I think I got into personal finances because I realized it was a way to take control of your life when you feel like you don't have much control. So you have so many great resources on your website, but I also noticed that you have an online course that's closed now. I'm assuming it'll open up again. Do you want to kind of speak to what that is? Because I feel like if someone really gets into your book, they'll want more. Yeah, the course is so exciting.

It just came out and yes, we're running it for the first time right now. So it's closed now, but it will be reopened in the future and you can go and sign up for the waiting list there. It's about pretty much everything we've just been talking about. So it's about how to develop your own ability to have an investing practice, starting from zero, absolute zero, to developing what to look at, when to do it during the day, what's your investing space, what kind of items do you have around you to remind yourself why you're doing this and to help you do it.

It gets into the emotions that I talked about, like the stuff I went through with my dad and the divorce. You also have those. I guarantee you, we each stuff I went through with my dad and the divorce, you also have those. I guarantee you we each have money stuff to deal with. And so the course focuses on that and gets into it to work through those things, which you really have to have an investing practice for a little while before you can get into that. So it gives you the resources to deal with it.

And then to look at where you're going in the future and why you're doing this investing thing, because it does tend to take time from other things. We're all super busy. How do you find time to add yet another thing into your life? And, and treating it, you know, in real life, like a real thing that takes time and, and how to handle it. to handle it. We just had a live call the other day with everybody in the course. And they said, you know, we're getting some comments and questions from people, partners, people in our lives, friends, parents, about this investing thing

with like, you know, not in the nicest way, like kind of like, what the heck are you doing? And I was so, this sounds bad, but I was so thrilled to hear that because, because that's what happened to me. I got all kinds of pushback from people. And I actually put that in the course because I thought, you know, if it probably doesn't, wasn't just me, this probably happens to other people. It's hard to stand up to other people when you're doing something new that you don't totally understand yourself yet. It was just such a nice symbiotic moment of I put that in the course and we're getting to it and this is what people are dealing with. I've tried to make it very, very real and very practical to develop a really deep practice

so that by the end, and I've called it an investing practice a number of times now on the show, I think of it as a practice like a yoga practice or a medical practice or any kind of work that you do that you are constantly getting better at, and that never has an end. Because when I first started, I thought like, Oh, I'll just learn and then I'll learn and then I'll be done learning. And I'll know at that point, that's not going to happen. This is a never ending growth project. And by thinking of it that way, it took the pressure off me.

I didn't feel like there was some test that I was going to have to meet at the end of it. Instead, it's just a really lovely way to continue learning. And so this course is set up in over seven weeks, which sounds long, but it's only 15 minutes a day, which is a real life investing practice. And it's only five days out of seven days. So it's not even every day. And at the end of the seven weeks, anybody who takes the course will come out with a regular, strong, deep, established, you

know where you go, you know when you go, you know what it looks like, you know what it, what it is to show up to investing practice, and you will be able to go off on your own and practice without any problems. That's so exciting. It's awesome. Honestly, it's been so fun to see it as people are going through it this first time. So I'm really excited for it to open up again.

Yeah, no, definitely. So where can people find more information about that and about you and where can they grab a copy of Invested the Book? Well, you can they grab a copy of Invested, the book? Well, you can go to danieltown.com, which will give you links to all of those things. And the course and my newsletter are under resources. And then the book you can get, the course is called Mostly Invested, by the way. And because exactly, because because we are all kind of mostly invested like it's okay to not be all the way there yet It's actually totally normal and I just really want to emphasize that because we don't hear that from anybody in the financial world

And then the book is called invested How I learned to master my mind my fears and my money to achieve financial freedom and live a more authentic life with a little help from Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger and my dad. And you can get it on Amazon or any independent bookstore. I always try to support independent bookstores. And wherever books are sold, really, you'll be able to find it. And it's a New York Times bestseller, which was super exciting. I know. Congratulations. That's crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. I was blown away.

So thank you to everybody who bought books. It was very exciting. Well, I can't wait to get other people reading this. I think it's really important to, you know, learn different strategies and different perspectives of investing because it is quite broad. And just to, you know, learn different strategies and different perspectives of investing because it is quite broad and just to, you know, like you said, it's like it's not you're never done learning. So it's important to keep on learning and reading more and learning new things. So I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

And that was my realist and episode with Danielle, town author of Invested. Original episode number was 221. So if you want to check out the show notes, more info. Hopefully those, you know, everything's accurate. I always just wonder sometimes the old show notes, you know, from like 10 years ago, I'm like, do those, is that information still relevant? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know.

But just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash 221. If you want to check out the show notes for any episode, that's how you find them on my website jessicamorehouse.com slash whatever the number of the episode is, or you can just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast. And yeah, this episode originally aired December 2019. My gosh, that feels like a million years from now. So long ago, doesn't it? Oh my God.

Different world. It was a different world. It sure was. It sure was. But a really great book, so make sure to check out. Invested from your library or buy it or whatever. But speaking of books, author here, which still seems pretty crazy to say, quite honestly, because it's been a dream of mine, probably since I started my podcast, maybe even before that. Everything but money is out on shelves. Borrow it from your library or buy it anywhere you like. You can find more information about it at jessicamorehouse.com slash book.

And if you're listening to this episode, as it like the day it drops on April 16th, I will be in Saskatoon at McNally Robinson and doing an event 7pm. So more information, you can find the Eventbrite page at jessicamorehouse.com slash book or, you know, go on my Instagram and you can find me there at Jessica I. Morehouse. Send me a DM if you want more info. I'll be on a flight, but I will try to get some internet and check my emails. But yeah, I'd love to see you there. If you're in Saskatoon, I would love to say hi to you. But otherwise, if you're not, you don't live there or maybe you've already read my book or you went to one of my other five bookstops, this is number six, I can't believe it, and

you've read my book and you liked it, ideally, please, if you want to support me a little extra, all you have to do is leave me a rating or review online on Indigo, Amazon, Goodreads, Wherever, Kobo, whatever you like, anything helps. And as a little incentive, if you take a screenshot of your review, again, I don't really look at them. I have a funnel where it's like you submit it. You can say whatever you want.

If you said you like, this was a piece of crap, I will, that's not, I won't like that. But honestly, I don't really read the reviews. Actually, I just honestly, I just look at the numbers. I look like, oh, there's another rating or review, but honestly I don't really read the reviews. Actually, I just honestly, I just look at the numbers. I look like, oh, there's another rating or review, but I honestly don't really look at the reviews because I'm so sensitive to people's comments. And so all you have to do is go to JessicaMoorhouse.com slash book. There will be a kind of an icon or a button that shows you, hey, you want the book extras and you'll get access to all these, you know, videos and audio and worksheets that kind of go companion with the book.

It will show you how to upload your screenshot of your rating or review. And then you get instant access automatically to that kind of hub where all that kind of stuff is there. So don't be like, Oh, I don't want Jessica looking at this. I won't. So it's really between you and all the other potential readers out there. As someone told me, book reviews are not for authors. They're for readers.

And yeah, I think that's very true. So yeah, please do that if you don't mind. That would be amazing. Well, thank you so much for listening and I'll be back with another episode next week as always up until we're getting to mid-June. I'm gonna take this and land this plane in mid-June. So yeah, I will hopefully if you're in Saskatoon see you tonight and otherwise have a good rest of your day. See you next week. The More Money Podcast would not be possible without the amazing talents of

podcast producer Matt Rideout who you can find at mravcanada.com. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Have you ever finished a book and just needed to talk about it immediately or wanted to know the wildest research an author has done for a book or even what book talk books are actually worth your time? Hi, I'm Morgan Book. Yes, that is actually my last name and this is Off the Shelf, my new podcast that covers everything related to books. Each Thursday, I chat with other bookworms and authors or sometimes it's just me rambling about my latest book obsession. From book to screen updates to hot takes

On new releases and of course our monthly book club discussions. I've got you covered So get your TBR list ready and listen to off the shelf wherever you get your podcasts Acast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast calm