More Money Podcast - From the Archives: Relistening to Ken Okoroafor Talk About Finding Your Financial Joy

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

TBDThis episode originally aired on April 21, 2021.To find the original show notes for this episode visit jessicamoorhouse.com/277Follow meInstagram @jessicaimoorhouseThreads @jessicaimoorhouseTikTok @jessicaimoorhouseFacebook @jessicaimoorhouseYouTube @jessicamoorhouseLinkedIn - Jessica MoorhouseFinancial resourcesMy websiteMy bestselling book Everything but MoneyFree resource libraryBudget spreadsheetWealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you're at a point in life when you're ready to lead with purpose, we can get you there. The University of Victoria's MBA in Sustainable Innovation is not like other MBA programs. It's for true changemakers who want to think differently and solve the world's most pressing challenges. From healthcare and the environment to energy, government and technology, it's your path to meaningful leadership in all sectors for details visit you Vic dot ca slash future MBA That's you vic dot ca slash future MBA Lou Lou Lou and welcome back to the more money podcast I'm your host Jessica Morehouse and we've got another realist an for you. And we're going back to four years ago where I interviewed one of the very few people,

I think I've only interviewed now three people from the UK. And I was so excited to have this guest on my show. I'd been following him on Instagram and YouTube for quite a while and loved his energy. He's so positive and so inspirational. And I'm talking about Ken Okorafor. He's the founder and CEO of the Humble Penny and Financial Joy Academy. And so we're gonna re-listen to episode 277. What's really cool about re-listening

is seeing what my guests are up to now after all these years. And even though it's only been a couple of years, he's been very busy and thriving. I think when I first interviewed him, his YouTube account maybe had, I don't know, 40 or 50,000 subscribers. He has well over 100,000 subscribers now, so he's continued to grow his platform. But more exciting, he and his wife were able to release their first book that became an instant Sunday Times bestseller called Financial Joy, Banish Debt, Grow Your Money, and Unlock Financial Freedom

in 10 Weeks, which is now now because it came out in March 2024. So you can grab your copy of that book now because it came out in March 2024. So he's been very busy since this interview that I did in 2021. And in this interview, we really talk about his amazing journey from being a first generation immigrant from Lagos, Nigeria at the age of 14, moving to the UK, starting a life and you know, the ups and downs of that becoming a chartered accountant and then leaving it all in April 2020 to go full time as a financial educator and content creator because that was where his passions lay and I can absolutely relate.

So you're going to love this episode. So without further ado, let's get to that interview with Ken. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Ken, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Hey, hey, hey. Hi, Jessica. How are you doing? Good. I'm a huge fan. I feel like I've been following you for a while and a big, well, first I love the name of your brand, the Humble Penny. Maybe that's me being Canadian. I don't know, but I just love your brand. It really is so positive and brings a smile to my face whenever I see any of the content you put out. It just makes me feel good, which, you know, when you're online, sometimes it's hard to find those kinds of

voices that make you feel good, but also are educational. So thank you so much. No, no, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it was never really a brand when we started. We just came up, my wife came up with a name and we thought, yeah, this sounds kind of good. It's available, you know, for 99p. Let's buy it and start. So it's interesting to see, you know, see it becoming a brand and seeing people connect with it in a very different way. So when you started it and you started it in 2017, what was kind of the, the goal of it? Was it just, Oh, let's start this just for fun. Or did you kind of have some, um, you know,

plans to maybe make it more than that? Yeah. So it started as a passion project as a, so my, my background, I'm actually a trained chartered accountant. So I'm a finance guy. So I didn't think I had a creative muscle in me at all. So the blog was my way of saying to myself, I've seen all these people, these internet people, making it happen and they're doing these really cool, fun things.

And I'm in my cubicle. I just love to try something else. I love to just try you know and see if I could maybe have myself heard by the world somehow so the humble penny became essentially my my blank canvas where I would just talk about stuff related to money but from my perspective because I felt there was no one really speaking to people who looked like me or who came from my background as a first-generation immigrant to the UK. I just felt there was just the narrative out there. I just didn't feel like, you know, there was people I could point to

and say, hey I followed that blog because I could really connect with him or her in a way that was quite close to who I was and where I came from. So I wanted to talk about money in a really simple way, in a way that was quite close to who I was and where I came from. So I wanted to talk about money in a really simple way, in a way that anyone could relate to. And that's what became my concept for The Handbook Penny as a blog. I'm curious, what was kind of the landscape in your view before you started your blog of other blogs or other kind of content creators in the personal finance space in the UK? I mean, I feel like I could totally identify with you. Like when I started my blog, I mean, a little bit earlier than you,

but it was the same thing. There's not a lot of women talking about money. It was really just a bunch of old white men and you're like, cool, cool, cool. Do not relate. And also similar to you, I wanted to have a creative outlet. Cause I also worked in a cubicle. So I'm like, I need something to live for. But yeah, tell me what, what, what did it kind of look like? Um, and has it changed over the years or is it still kind of the same? Oh yeah, no. So it's changed a lot. So back then, which it sounds like, it sounds like I'm saying it's like, Oh, back in the twenties, no, it was only three years ago.

sounds like I'm saying it's like, oh, back in the 20s. No, it's only three years ago. There were there were a handful of blogs were, you know, been created by people who were of a particular demographic. And those blogs had a particular readership. And, you know, there wasn't really, if I had to be really blunt, a blog that was created by a black guy who had a family, which was my situation. I felt like I was coming in as a kind of a stranger to a party and I didn't know where I fitted in.

I didn't have any allies. I didn't have any people who I could point to. In fact, the people who I admired were people in America, you know, the American bloggers and people like that, because I thought, oh, you know, there's blogging things taking off in America. And I've been heavily interested in the subject of financial independence in America, because my wife and I, we met at a property investing seminar. And we, we had, yeah and we had set off together after reading this random book which many people know about called Rich Dad Poor Dad back in 2008. We set off together and became friends.

Anyway, this subject of financial independence was actually an area I was interested in. So starting the blog, I felt that that was an interesting area for me to talk about from my perspective, because there were not really many people, even people who looked like me, who talk about that subject, let alone talk about it from an aspirational perspective. But since we started, there's been all these blogs have shown up, and it's been really interesting to see the change. There have been lots of blogs by women, lots of blogs by black women, lots of blogs by other people from other backgrounds. That was very different to what life looked like in December 2017 when I was kicking off. So it's just very interesting because in fact, I've had people message me saying, Ken, do

you know what? Because I saw you and because I saw you doing it, I believe that I could do it as well. Wow. Isn't that cool? Like that is pretty amazing, especially too when you, you know, when you started, you're like, well, I'm gonna start this thing and we'll just see how it goes.

But I'm just doing this as kind of a hobby. I don't have like any, you know, big plans and you've inspired other people to do the same. And I think that's the kind of amazing thing. Sometimes I feel like we, uh, you know, as individuals, like what kind of impact can I make? It's like, you can make a really big impact by just taking that chance and doing something outside of your comfort zone. And because I think that's the other thing too,

a lot of people may not realize this, but yeah, you, like if you don't see someone like you or a similar voice to you out there, then maybe that's, you know, kind of the opening for you to be that person. But sometimes that's, you know, you don't maybe think of it that way. And then that can kind of create that ripple effect. Yeah. I think it's, do you know what it is, Jessica? It's the fear, the fear holds people back. Oh yeah. I had the same fear. I just feared being laughed at by people and being judged. I come from a professional background. I'd worked in venture capital, I'd worked in just in asset management, in very, very kind of traditional areas of work. There was

a very clear career pathway. So for someone like me who would be attending board meetings and be wearing a suit and stuff, suddenly start talking about blogging and writing about stuff on the internet was very much frowned upon. It was just not a normal thing to do. And so I think to your point, I think fear of being judged paralyzes a lot of people because they just, they really fear telling their story, you know? And what I found is that, you know, the story is actually the goldmine. The story is the thing that people want to hear

because like it's what connects and builds a bridge between the storyteller and the people, the audience, the people listening. And the blog provides the medium for that to happen. But most people don't really realize that their stories, no matter how bad they think their stories are, are actually their assets. They're actually what they need to almost unravel and let the world see. And it's that fear that holds people back from actually taking that leap. And I'm hoping that our journey is kind of helping people realize that, you know what, you know, it's about time, it's about time people heard your voice, you know, and, um,

and kind of heard your story because that story is important, not just for you, that story is important for other people. Right? I mean, that's the big reason why I got into this is I read other people's blogs and a lot of them from women and I'm like, well, this is cool. I didn't know people were talking about this and they're being so vulnerable. I mean, people were sharing their how much they made, how much they spent their net worth. I'm like, what numbers this is wild. And it, you know, it makes you feel like, oh, okay, people are talking about it. Maybe not in my, you know, my friend group or at work, but there are kind of circles maybe online that are doing that. And then, then you can kind of feel part of something different, which is really cool. Did you, I'm curious, since you kind of mentioned, you know, the fear of being judged was, you know, a big thing for you. Did you feel like that actually happened or was that just kind of a fear once you kind of did it, you're like, Oh, actually it wasn't as bad as I expected.

Oh yeah. I mean, I was definitely judged. I mean, I was definitely judged. I mean, uh, first of all, my friends would not talk about it. You know, they would not interact with my content. You know, people were not sure how to respond. You know, like, why does he feel he's the guy to talk about this? Why is he showing about his personal journey? Why, you know, there were many question marks and it was, and this is so interesting, Jessica,

it's so fascinating, the psychology of life. It's not until you start to have some success that people suddenly feel, oh, I now wanna talk about you. They wanna go, oh, I know that guy. He's one of my friends or, you know, we used to work together. He's one of my ex-colleagues, we used to work together. He's one of my ex colleagues, you know, because, because I realized that people want to be associated with success, Jessica.

Yeah, this is it. You know, but, but, but where does a question mark over what you're doing when they're not quite sure if it's going anywhere, they are afraid to commit themselves to it. No, that's true. At least now you can be like, well, I told you so. Well, you know, it's, well, you know, I kind of feel like we're still, we're still at the inception stages. I know we're only three years into this journey. I kind of feel like, wow, there's just so much more ahead.

And it's really exciting as to what the possibilities are. Yeah. So yeah, tell me, because yeah, it's, it's for me, especially since I've been doing this for almost a decade and it's, so it's been a bit of a, it's for me, especially since I've been doing this for almost a decade and it's, so it's been a bit of a slower burn for me to get to where I am. It's like, it's been a journey. You've been able to achieve so much

in such a short amount of time, which is amazing. Tell me a little bit about what kind of changed. Obviously you started the blog, but now you have a YouTube channel. You have a huge audience now. You have your membership program. Kind of of tell me how did things kind of evolve to where they are now where now you're running your own business full time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's very interesting. So it's interesting because when I, when I

started the blog, um, the blog was just a place where I wrote stuff down and I started to really reimagine what a blog was. Having seen my, you know, kind of called them American colleagues or maybe Canadian people, people basically who were, you know, who I was used to seeing their blogs. And some UK people who were kind of upcoming and things like that. I started to ask myself, like,

this whole idea of blogging, what does it actually mean beyond the creative pursuit? How can we turn this thing into a business, something that actually generated an income? How do we actually do it and do something? How do we take some risks with this stuff beyond just writing articles? How else could we monetize this thing

beyond advertising and affiliate income? What else could we do? And in 2019, in the summer, around May 2019, my wife and I thought, and we've been sitting on this idea for some time, we thought, how about we just try video? Why don't we just try something else, you know, and see where it goes?

But I had a huge fear, you see, Jessica. I've grown up being labeled as shy through my life. And so, you know, I had this up being labeled as shy through my life. And so, I had this thing where, I just didn't know how people would react, my story, not everybody, how would people take it? Would I be judged a lot on the internet? Would people write hateful comments below videos?

But then in the end we said, you know what, we're just gonna have a go. We're gonna make one video. My wife said she was gonna learn video editing, so we started learning video editing whilst I started to learn how to practice and record myself for a YouTube video. And we put the first video out and it went pretty well in that it did not go viral or anything like that. But people did not, you know, the world did not fall apart and people responded fairly you know fairly decently to the video and so we then said you know what we're now going to turn this blogging thing into see the humble penny as a platform rather than

as a blog so the humble penny would become a platform that existed across different spheres one of those spheres would be the YouTube platform. And so we made a decision to create one piece of high quality content per week and then moved on to creating two pieces of quality content per week. And that became, I can tell you, the biggest change in building an audience because the likeability and trust happened so much quicker via video. And also, we were able to attract, we reached our first million views on YouTube so much quicker because people were able to connect with us and people felt like the way I explained

things, they could understand it was very simple I was able to break down complex topics into very simple ideas using very simple analogies I was able to add humor emotion things that I struggled to articulate on a blog yeah and plus they could see me and so they're like oh this is the guy this is guy. I feel like I kind of like this guy or I'm not sure if I like this guy, you know, that kind of thing. At least they could make a judgment.

They could decide, you know. And so it meant that people were reaching out a lot quicker. You know, so many comments, so many emails. That's when we knew actually this thing could begin to take off in the YouTube platform. And it's honestly, it's been the best decision ever. The YouTube platform is single-handedly the one thing that moves the needle the most in our, in our lives right now.

And I kid you not because, because you are almost see as you are in complete control in that you decide what you create You speak in your own voice You speak to who you want to speak to and the YouTube algorithm does the work of promoting your content rather than me having to go and do Pinterest and do you know work on organic traffic which we still do on the blog but the Algorithm and the fact that we're building an authentic community on YouTube does the work for you. So the hardest part of actually creating on a platform like that is actually doing the creating. And once you're done, you're not spending so much time marketing

the content, it markets itself. And so this became a huge game changer for us. And we got another big change was we got selected by YouTube for something called the Creator on the Rise Award. They reached out and said, look, our systems have told us that your channel, there's something about it that could really take off. So we're giving you this award as a Creator on the Rise. And that was in January 2020 as the Creator on the Rise. And we were like, wow, this is incredible. And they basically took our channel and put it on the homepage of YouTube for an entire day. And our channel grew on the back of that.

Like they put it on like their trending tab or whatever. And that became a big thing. And so the biggest, almost the biggest game change for us has been about staying consistent, being very clear on our messaging on YouTube and building an authentic community on that platform. And then there's other stuff that happened, which we can speak about later around the YouTube Black and being selected by Google. Yeah, I saw that and I'm like, that is pretty cool. Tell me a little bit about that because that sounds so exciting. Yeah, it's crazy, right? So Google made an announcement in,

I think it was last year, 2020, where they said they're going to fund, they've got $100 million to fund black creators globally. And so they went on this drive to try and find creators globally who they thought had the potential to grow and have real impact in their communities and stuff like that and tell positive stories about their communities. And we got chosen to be one of those 112 global creators from literally everywhere across the world from Africa, from America, from everywhere you can think about Australia and so on. We were one of those 112 people and I never forget the phone call we got

contacted by them. They said hey come and meet us, let's sit down and just have a chat about your channel and they sat down and said hey you know we're writing you guys a check and we would love for you to join an incubator, we'd love to help you to grow your channel, we see a lot of potential in what you do and that's a huge validation Jessica because for the first time we've been we've been grafting, working really hard for like a year and suddenly this comes about and they're like look we believe you can go so much further because you're you're you're seen as an authority on YouTube and we thought wow know, and this became a huge thing for us. And we've

been on the incubator now for some time, uh, learning basically the business of YouTube, um, uh, whilst obviously still running the blog and everything else related to that. Funny. Cause it's a, I mean, I am not a YouTube sensation, but I do see the potential. And it's like, I don't know how you were able to, or still do create such consistent content. My God, video is so difficult to do, especially when you're doing other things in the background. You know, you've got your blog and all these other things like that is difficult, but it is, isn't it so fascinating that you try one thing and you're, you know, pretty successful with the blog, but then it was something else that was actually the game changer for me.

It was the podcast and it was something that like I'd been blogging for like five or six years at that point. And it never really took off. And I'm like, should I just, like, let's just try something new. But again, that fear kind of came in. What if no one listens? What if people hate it? Da da da da da. But it's like, you just don't know. And isn't that kind of cool that you can now look back? You're like, that was the thing that changed everything. How cool is that? Yeah, it's incredible. And I think for anyone listening, and this is a big lesson I've learned on this journey is that it's really about having this experimental mindset of almost exploration.

So when you're doing one thing, always asking yourself, how else could I apply the same concept across a different medium? And just to see how that might turn out, I must think to myself, wow, seems like a different life before YouTube. Had we not tried it, I wonder where we might have been now.

You know? Yeah. In fact, it became so good that YouTube asked us to do a workshop for them, teaching people how to create an authentic community on YouTube. Oh, my gosh. You're like, we're teaching people? Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. We're teaching people. And we've only been on this journey ourselves for barely 18 months on YouTube. And you're like, we're teaching people. Exactly. We're teaching people. And we've been on this journey ourselves for barely 18 months on YouTube. So, you know, it just shows what's possible, you know. And, you know, I honestly, if anyone who's listening, who is maybe afraid to take the leap potentially to try things out, you do not lose anything for experimenting. things out, you do not lose anything for experimenting. Honestly. Um, it's, it's honestly, it's, it's the best thing we've ever done trying out the YouTube platform. And it's what it's done is actually expose our brand now more globally. Well, yeah, I'm in Canada and I discovered

you, you know what I mean? So it's like, there's a diff, you can just reach so many more people, which is exciting. This, yeah, there's just so much more possibility. Let's not forget, you obviously get paid for creating on YouTube. You get paid by Google AdSense for creating. Of course, for those who are listening, who might be interested in content creation and online businesses and things like that. The best thing about YouTube for us, in fact, you mentioned our membership earlier, our membership program. We know that anything between 65% and 75% of our members came from

YouTube. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense when you think about the platform, because I mean, I love YouTube. I'm on there all the time watching videos of other creators. You're an engaged watcher or viewer. A blog is a little bit more passive, great information, but you may not have that personal connection. But when you're watching someone on YouTube over and over, you feel like you know them, you know, and that's pretty special. Like you create this really strong, uh, connection with them, which is, is pretty cool. But yeah, it's, I think so many people, and I mean, I, I, you know, still feel like this when I'm trying something new or want to experiment,

like you said, there's really no downside to experimenting. I think we're just so focused or I don't know, we're conditioned to be afraid of failing instead of just try it out. If it doesn't work out, maybe let's not label it as a failure. Cause that's so negative. Just be like, okay, it didn't work out. We learned a few things. Let's move on to the next. But I think sometimes we don't focus enough on, but what if it succeeds? Yeah. Yeah. We really don't focus enough on, but what if it actually works out? We're always just like, what's the worst case scenario? It's like guaranteed.

It won't be as bad as your worst case scenario. We haven't even really touched on this, but you were able to achieve, um, you know, fire financial independence by a very young age, 34, which is also crazy. So when in the process did that happen? Was that a little while ago? Was that on your kind of journey of creating the blog? So that actually happened in 2017 before we launched the blog. So 2017 in the summer was when we were able to say that had happened. I was 34. Giving my age away here. I was 34

in 2017. And then we started to tell the story. We launched a blog in December 2017 on the 3rd of December. And that actually was instrumental in helping me have the confidence to quit my job as well. Because we were at a good place. We paid off our mortgage, we built up good investments and savings and so on. We had property assets. So we're basically in a good place financially. But I always thought to myself, it would be incredible if this thing that I was starting to decide became something that was actually sustainable, i.e. it covered its own costs, it broke even.

Because we were starting to develop costs. We've got a team of six people now, a video editor, a community manager, a tech VA, a social media person, and then there's me and then there's my wife. So in addition to obviously costs of running a platform, technology and things like that, so our goal then became how do we not just rely on our own money, but how do we turn this thing into something that could actually generate some income. And so the whole monetization journey began and about 12 months after we started a platform

and that was to try and get ourselves monetized via Mediavine and you probably heard of them, ad platform. And once we did that, that started to provide some regular income, which we then reinvested back into the whole platform to start to explore other ways of just creating our own online courses and things like that.

Amazing. Gosh. Yeah, that will that I've heard, you know, lots of people on the show come on the show. And that's kind of what kind of inspired them to maybe try something new or experiment is like having that financial independence or at least on their way to financial independence. And it seems like that's been something that you were, you know, even if you didn't do the blog, like that's something that you were, um, you know, trying to do. I'm curious, cause everyone seems to have a different strategy or system, uh, or even, you know, definition of, you know, FI, what does that mean for you? How did you determine, yes, we were now officially FI. Yeah. So for us, it was simply a point where our cost space had fallen significantly. So

the home we live in, we bought in 2012, our primary residence with a house paid off and with our investments in other assets, so our property, other property assets outside of our primary residence, as well as investments in the stock market, which we started in 2009 slash 10. As soon as the income from those areas, as well as from other, we also run a nursery, a childcare business, outside of what we do, we do it as a family, not just me and my wife, as broader siblings and my parents. Essentially, the income from all our other activities was essentially able to cover our costs easily,

our kind of ongoing costs of operating our family life. So as we got to that stage, we knew in addition to having a good savings buffer and you know, investments and so on, we knew that we were at that place where it become optional really. The big question I then had, the big question mark really was, I've been building a career so far, I've spent the last 15, 16 years developing this career. You know, I'm a chief financial officer, I earn a good six figure income, I've been earning six figures for some years now. Should I, you know, should I carry on? Do I have

a desire to carry on doing what I'm doing, working 60, 70, 80 hours a week? Or is there something else I could do really, especially as my children were getting older, I've got an eight year old and a six year old with my wife, you know, do I want to play a better role in my in my own personal life? Do I want a different life altogether? My wife and I always did, we wanted I wanted to play more of a role as a father, I wanted to be more present. And also I wanted to have a go at really doing the things I've been doing for years, lots of side hustles, you know, as immigrants to a country, and I don't know if you know much about how immigrants kind of get through life, but lots of side hustles, you know, as immigrants to a country, and I don't know if you know much about how immigrants kind of get through life, but a lot of immigrants kind of, you know, start off with a focus on survival. And for me, that began with creating side hustles with family members,

joint ventures and things like that. So I've always been on a triplarial, but I've never gone away and done it fully, you know. And so getting our finances in order, getting our money journey to a place where we were actually okay, we were not like we didn't have abundance in income, we were in a good place financially. Then we basically de-risked our lives to a large extent. It gave me the opportunity to decide, well, actually, I might, this is now the best time. Essentially, 2020 was a gift, Jessica, because I've been working these crazy hours in my day job, also working, putting in 20, 30 hours a week on my own side, hustle on the side, as well as being a husband, being a parent with two children, as well as homeschooling as a result of COVID,

there's so much going on. That point was essentially a turning point when I thought, okay, this is it. Enough of being afraid. Now it's a time to back myself and see where this takes me. Did you find it? I mean, it sounds like you were ready to make that decision, but were you, I don't know, worried about, I guess, leaving that career built up or also even that salary? Was that a difficult decision to make or, you know, looking back, you're like, no, it was, it was an easy decision at the end of the day. No, no, no, it was extremely difficult. Yeah. Because come on, who does not like getting a regular six figure salary every year? I've worked all my life to get to this stage. I've

taken professional qualifications, I've done an MBA at the University of Cambridge. I've worked hard to get to this stage. This was the only identity I had. It was really who I'd become after about 15 years of working in the City of London in the financial services area. So to give that up was very difficult. In fact, I had anxiety. I was very afraid of giving that up because you're used to on a particular date of each month, there would be a paycheck coming in. You were used to having that and that paycheck offered a specific lifestyle without you having to dip into your savings and things like that, you know. So it's quite hard but I also knew given the buzz and the interest and the

excitement and the impacts we've seen with the humble penny that you know what this this thing could potentially become, in fact my brother said to me this thing would become your legacy. Yeah and Yeah, and I believed him. I believed him when he said that. And I thought, well, what if he is right? What if I gave up on this and I gave up on this legacy journey? Or what if he's right?

And I carried on, and this became the thing that really changed our lives and changed the lives of millions. And that was the bet I had to weigh up. I had to weigh up, you know, there's a good six-figure salary and a good job, a secure job, well, secure-ish. Yeah. Yeah. Versus the opportunity to really run something that I love that could actually match my day job and income and, um, but would have the potential to have impact for millions. When I, when I did that analysis, it became very clear. My wife said to me, this is, this is it. This is the opportunity. Let's do it. And that was it. Yeah. You don't

want to regret, you don't want like, you know, thinking about regret, it's like, I don't know, like you'd probably regret not, you know, taking this chance, but you may regret staying in your job a little bit longer and just, you know, starting to really hate it. You never want to get to that point of, of super burnout. Did you get any pushback from anyone in your family or friends circle who, you know, because it is, I mean, I got some pushback, I'll be honest, when I decided to quit my corporate job, because I think most people are like, what

are you crazy? You have a good job. What are you doing? No, I didn't tell anyone. Oh, that's a good strategy. Just don't tell anybody. Just do it. No, I didn't tell anyone. I just went ahead and did it. And I called my mom, called my dad and said, okay, this is it now. I'm running the business full time. And they were like, are you sure? I'm like, yep, we're doing it. And then I explained this is where we are financially, you know, there's potential in what we're doing. And, you know, this is how this is why it matters, you know, and they understood because I come from an entrepreneurial family, you see, mom and dad, my mom,

my dad, my sisters, my brother, everybody runs a business, I was the only one who had a normal day job. So for them, it was like welcoming back their son. Oh good. Yeah. No one in my family is an entrepreneur. Um, like no one in any part of my family. And so when I said, Oh, I get to start my own business, they're like, are you crazy? Like we're a family of employees, you know, stay at your job for 30 to 40 years kind of thing. So, so is it, but you know what I, for me, I got a lot of, uh, support for my husband who's been self-employed since I've known him. So for like 13, 14 years.

So, so that was good. And then like you said, it's one of those things you do it and you're like, I'm so glad I did it now. I wish I almost did this sooner. Right? Yeah. So I want to kind of talk a little bit about your membership program, which I think is so awesome. Cause I also kind of feel like this is about your membership program, which I think is so

awesome. Cause I also kind of feel like this is also, you know, my view, it's like, I don't know, is it, is personal finance kind of a, a, still a very niche kind of small thing in the UK? Are you kind of one of the leaders of it? So personal finance is become a bigger thing in the UK. It did not used to be like that. So are, and we are one of the, I'd say one of the key voices in this space here in the UK. So we launched in, talk about timing. In February 2020, just before the pandemic here in the UK, we launched a platform, a sister company

called Financial Joy Academy at financialjoyacademy.com and that name, in case anyone wondered, came out of our tagline for the Humble Penny which is Create Financial Joy. So we took the words from that tagline and created essentially this platform and the reason we created it, and I'll tell you why, we had many people who'd reach out to us, as you probably do Jessica, who say, hey can you offer me some mentoring? Can you offer me some coaching? I need some help. Then you say to them, this is how much it's going to cost, because you know my time costs a lot of money, and they'll go, oh that's actually pretty expensive. I'm not quite sure I can afford that. And then they

disappear. And so my wife and I thought, well actually instead of not being able to help so many people who come to us, how about if we created something that offered them so much value but at such a little price each month. So the price of a takeaway, people who buy you know or order online on Deliveroo or whatever you know on a platform where they buy food, whatever they spend, what if they use that to actually invest in their lives for the future. And so we came up with the UK's first ever platform catering to with a goal of helping families practically work towards achieving financial independence. So our mission is to help 10,000 families in this 10-year decade

from 2020 to 2030 to get on that journey and actually achieve that goal. It's a crazy goal for us, but we believe that it's actually possible because of what we're building. So essentially, the platform has a multi-dimensional value proposition. So it offers group coaching every two weeks. We have essentially all our resources, we've got about 30 different courses and action plans and things like that within the platform. It's actually an actual platform itself which we built. We have a super supportive community as part of the offering. We also have a method for keeping people accountable on a weekly and a quarterly basis as well as we have experts. So we have various people showing up to teach various things.

And what we've noticed is that this has been the best thing. So beyond actually we thought when we started that it would be about helping people build wealth. But what we've noticed is that this platform has actually become about helping people begin to believe that they can achieve their goals or to build good friendships or to create strong relationships or stuff like that. You know, so for example, one of the best parts of what we do is our 5am club. So every day from Monday to Friday, we show up at 5am and on Zoom, it's like a co-working space. People use that to work on their side hustles, to work on their various projects, and this is a benefit they get. I show up, I read a book for about 10 minutes to motivate people,

or my wife reads a book, or we share something we've learnt in a week. And that's, you know, it's what that has done for us is it's taken the whole blogging and YouTube being to really to create essentially a really intimate environment, where you feel it's almost like a spiritual journey, like you're going on a journey with people that you know them so well, you know, their wives, their children, their dreams, their goals, and you're literally helping them as well as everybody else almost crowdfunding their ideas to help each person build wealth forward.

Yeah, and for all of that, they're paying a small monthly fee, which I think it works out to be about $50 a month or something like that. That's amazing. I think, yeah, so many people would need something like that. And like you said, there's such a big need, I think, when people, you know, are looking for information on how to, you know, better their financial lives online, lots of free stuff.

But when it comes down to it, lots of people are like, I need some actual like accountability and some help. And it's still very difficult to find someone who, I mean, I have conversations all the time, you know, from people like, Oh, can you help me? I'm like, there's only so many people I can help, you know, time is limited. And then when you're looking for other people who are kind of unbiased, they don't work for a financial institution, they're not trying to sell you some financial products, very hard to find that kind of help. So that's awesome that you've been able to create a platform. Yeah. The one thing I'd say as well, which I hope will really resonate with lots of people is that we've got to remember that when we share our stories, people buy into us. Yeah.

So they really want to what you're really what you're really what you're really giving people by creating a platform like that is proximity. So people feel they can actually get to know you and build a true relationship with you but do it at an affordable price. So I almost think of it as an ethical way of monetizing a platform because you're essentially crowdfunding lots of ideas, lots of thoughts. In our community there are so many experts in so many things, whether it's digital marketing, whether it's the law, whether it's accounting, whether it's you know how to build a website. There's so many people with different niche, whether it's property investing, they're all within the platform. And so when you ask a question outside of me and my wife giving you answers, there are people who are actual subject matter experts who can also give you answers. So it's actually like the best possible outcome. I highly recommend this idea to anyone who's thinking about how else could they create

a sustainable offering to their audience. This is actually a way that they might want to explore doing it. Yeah, definitely. I've got my wheels turning. I'm like, hmm. Yeah. My gosh. Well, you know, it has been such a pleasure having you on this show. I feel more inspired just to kind of get, keep on going quite honestly, get back on YouTube, make some more videos.

Um, but also I feel like it's, you know, again, just another example of someone who, uh, you know, you didn't have a blog, you were just doing your own thing, working your job and you've changed your life completely. And you took a lot of risks but calculated risks and it just goes to show anyone can kind of change their life or do something different or get on a different path. It may not feel easy internally, but it's possible. Yes. Especially when it comes to changing your own financial, you know, kind of destination. I think a lot of people get very focused on the present. We need to, you know, focus on the future and then, you know, just be patient and humble. Absolutely. Stay humble and have fun. We always end by telling people, be thankful and seek

joy. The joy is what it's about. You know, that's what it's really about at the end of it. You know, you have to, you have to feel like this whole thing is changing your life. Otherwise there's no point doing it. So before I let you go, you know I'm sure people will want to kind of check you out working people find you online and find more information about the Financial Joy Academy Yeah, so first of all, you can find us at The humble penny on Instagram where we have fun. Just sharing our journey You can learn more about our blog at thehumbolpenny.com and thehumbolpenny on YouTube. For Financial Joy Academy, just check it out at financialjoyacademy.com

or at financialjoyacademy on Instagram. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Ken. It was a pleasure having you. Likewise. No, thank you for having me, Jessica. And that was my interview with Ken Okorafor, which I did April 2021. Original episode number, if you want to check out the show notes, is episode 277. And like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, of course, he's got his amazing Instagram and his YouTube channel, which I continue to watch and love. But since this interview, he came out with a best-selling book called Financial Joy, Banished Debt, Grow Your Money, and Unlock Financial Freedom in 10 Weeks. Came out in 2024. So you can grab your copy now and check out everything that he wanted

his readers to know in one amazing book. And speaking of books, Your Gal also has a book, you know, came out just a few months ago. It kind of honestly irritates me though, I've got to say that it came out on December 31st, 2024. So New Year's Eve, which was cool. I had no say in that. But when you look it up online, it says, oh, your book came out in 2024. I'm like, yeah, technically, but really it's a book that came out in 2025. Let's be honest.

That has nothing to do with anything. I just wanted to just complain about that. So thanks for listening to me. Um, but if you want to grab a copy of my book, Everything But Money, you can check out, uh, you know, I mean, you can grab it from anywhere. And I have been popping into a lot of places in Toronto. And if I'm in, you know, I was in Ottawa recently and I signed a bunch of books at Perfect Books and Indigo at Radio Center. I loved popping into a bookstore and signing books.

So if you are looking for my book, you may be able to find a signed copy. But you can find all the details of my book, Everything But Money, at jessicamorehouse.com slash book. Well, I hope you enjoyed this re-listen episode. I've got more to come this season and I've got more fresh new interviews coming too. So thanks for listening and subscribing and sharing this with friends and family or whoever. And I will see you back here next week with another couple of episodes. Have a great rest of your week. The More Money Podcast would not be possible without the amazing talents of podcast producer

Nat Rideout, who you can find at mravcanada.com.