More Money Podcast - From the Archives: Relistening to Melissa Leong Share How to Get Happy with Your Money

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Too often, we confuse money for happiness, while it's simply a tool that can help us increase our happiness (to a limit). To talk about how to get your happy back and how to use money strategically to help you get there, for this episode, we're re-listening to my interview with Melissa Leong, author of Happy Go Money and money expert on The Social. This episode originally aired on February 6, 2019.To find the original show notes for this episode visit jessicamoorhouse.com/181Follow meInstagram @jessicaimoorhouseThreads @jessicaimoorhouseTikTok @jessicaimoorhouseFacebook @jessicaimoorhouseYouTube @jessicamoorhouseLinkedIn - Jessica MoorhouseFinancial resourcesMy websiteMy bestselling book Everything but MoneyFree resource libraryBudget spreadsheetWealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Morehouse, and we are re-listening to another one of my all-time favorite podcast episodes with one of my favorite people, just in general. I'm talking about Melissa Leong. She was on my show. I think she's only been on once surprisingly, but we've been following each other for so long and it just, you know, feels like she's been on more than once, but she was on the show originally February 6th,

2019 for episode 181 to discuss the book that she had out. Actually her book came out in December, 2018. It's called Happy Go Money, Spend Smart, Save Right, and Enjoy Life. And it really was one of the first books that came out that wasn't just about money. It was also about psychology and behavior and really, she shares a lot of her personal story and talks about depression and all these really important elements that at the time when her book came out, honestly, there weren't that many books that actually talked about that. It was kind of a trailblazer, I would say. And I would say absolutely inspired some of my book, Everything But Money, because of what she was able to

accomplish. And she's just someone I look up, I've always looked up to. She's just an incredible person, honestly. And that's why I asked her to be my co-host for my first event to celebrate the release of my book, Everything But Money, in Toronto for my book tour this past January, which is crazy. So I want to, you know, re-listen to that episode because it was so special, so memorable, and she's just such an icon, quite honestly. And I highly recommend you grab a copy of her book, Happy Go Money, and follow her on Instagram.

You can follow her, you know, on, well, go to her website, melissaleong.com, very easy. And she's often on the social as well. She's been the money expert on the social, I think for over a decade, which is incredible. So I know you're gonna love this. So it's all about how to get happy with your money, which you know what, maybe we need a reminder about how to do that.

So I hope you really enjoy this Reelism episode with Melissa Leong. Thanks Melissa for joining me on the Mo Money podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. this Re-Listen episode with Melissa Leong. Thanks Melissa for joining me on the MoMuddy podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. I know. It's a long time coming. I don't know if you know this, but I always have a list of guests that I'm like, I should

reach out to. I want to have them on the show eventually. And you've been on that list for a while. And I just never reached out to you. I don't know why. I don't know why. It's not that I didn't want to. I'm just like, I'll get to her. And then it's so great that you reached out. You're like,

I have a book coming out. I'm like, this is perfect timing. Because now we have something amazing to talk about. Yes. And I'm excited. And I'm glad that we could hook up at financial conferences and have coffee and chat. And so I feel like this is a good time for us to chat. Absolutely. So I was telling you before I hit the record button that you did a stellar job speaking at the Canadian Personal Finance Conference this year. Loved, loved, loved, loved what you were talking about and it's very much in relation to the book you have coming out called Happy Go Money.

First, I'd love to chat like where'd that name come from? I love it. It's adorable. It makes me smile when chat, like, where'd that name come from? I love it. It's adorable. It makes me smile when I say it, but where did that come from? Okay. That name is actually the suggestion that Bruce Celery gave me. So Money Guru and podcast host extraordinaire Bruce Celery is... I think I've forced him to be my mentor over the years. I just randomly messaged him. I was like, I'm having a really hard time coming up with book titles.

And I mean, anytime I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, you get it, you know, when you're coming up with product titles, when you're coming up with your company titles, you do this, you know, massive list of all these things you could possibly name your babies and then whittle it down and test it. You do your product testing by asking your friends and family. And I couldn't find one that really resonated. I originally had a title that has a swear in it. Oh, I know. I have that has a swear in it. Oh, I know.

I have so many of those in my head. I'm like, and I always tell people like, isn't that great? They're like, that's awful. They don't like the ones with the curse words in it. I don't know. I think it's great though. There's some good ones with curse words out there. The title that I had in my mind was, I'm not going to say it, but it was F the Joneses

actually. Yeah. Like I would have bought that book, but some people don't like the F-words. It's a chapter title. It's still in the book. Oh, good. It's still an idea that I talk about,

but Happy Go Money Bruce Celery actually came up with. So now I owe him coffees for the rest of our lives. Damn it. That guy, yeah. I think I got a deal though, so. Yeah, you probably did. That's probably it. No, it's a great title. I think it really, it's's great. I think I got a deal though. So yeah, you probably did. That's probably it. No, it's a great title.

I think it really, it's a great way to basically like the two big themes from your book is happiness and money. So you know, just tie in one little word in there and bam, you've got like a really short but very descriptive title for your book, which is awesome. Yeah, I'm glad. I mean, I wanted people to see it and immediately think, well, I know what I'm going to get and that's what this is. I mean, it's all about trying to use your money to make sure that you are the happiest

you can be in your life. So yeah, let's talk a little bit about that. Because when you were speaking at CPFC, one of the things that you said was you can buy happiness or something like that, which I thought was amazing, but kind of controversial because people were like, no, you know, there's so many negative connotations when it comes to money. People like to take that, I think there's a Bible verse, it's like money is the root of all evil. Money is like, you could be greedy.

There's a lot of negativity that's tied up with money. So why did you really want to talk about how money is actually very much correlated to happiness and you can potentially use money in order to gain it. So when you mentioned that sentence, I was thinking about this yesterday, I was doing another interview when someone was talking about that old adage, the money's the root of all evil,

and that's because we, basically, we ascribe that meaning to money. Money is just a tool, right? It doesn't have any, it shouldn't be positive, it shouldn't be negative, but the way that we frame it is, is often, I had often colors how we handle money, how we collect money, how we view money in our lives, whether it's a stressful thing, whether it's something to do with vanity. And, and so I thought it, it's just a tool and we are,

if the only reason why we're doing everything that we're doing in life is to try to be satisfied and happy, then really how should we use this tool to get to the end goal, right? And I think a lot of people also get confused thinking that money is the end goal. And that's something that I used to think because I didn't grow up with a lot of money.

So I always thought, okay, so the goal when I'm an adult is to try to achieve more money that will, but I didn't ever think of money as the tool. I always thought it was the end goal. Right. No, we, you and everybody else, right? That's why we all play the lottery. That's why at the end of all of our fantasies, the Disney princess ends up, you know, she's never broken living in her basement, dreaming of this handsome pension. Right? Living in the castle has infinite shoes. It's all about fortune and materials.

And that's why we also idolize celebrities, right? They seem to have it all. And you think, well, one day I want to be there where all of my life's problems will be solved. And I think people think that if they have enough money, then they will be a perfect 10 on the happiness scale. And I know that because a lot of my book, it's not, I mean, it might sound like a journey

that we're gonna take with Deepak Chopra and Oprah. We're gonna spiritually go on this excursion into our inner self. But really I use a lot of science, right? I'm a journalist by career, so I need facts. I wanna back that up with research. And research has shown that no matter what amount of money you have, you always want more.

There was a Harvard researcher who asked people, hey, rate your happiness on one to 10. And you could ask your listeners, I think right now of a number between one and 10. And if you're anything less than a 10, then how much more money do you need to be that perfect 10? And the researcher found that no matter who he asked, whether they were middle income earners or high net worth UK residents, they all said two to three times more money. Wow.

That's a lot more money. Two to three times. So if you had one million in the bank, you wanted three, but if you had three, you wanted nine, and so on, and so on, and so on. It's kind of a curse, actually. It's just the... But we think, oh man, we're just never satisfied. But that is also a... There's science that backs that up. It's because we get used to things as human beings were adaptable. And that's this amazing quality about this is that we can adapt to good and bad. And so, you know, a million dollars you could adapt to, and then it would become normal. And would you always stay at that high? No, no, you wouldn't.

No. Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that because actually after the conference, I came back home. It was kind of the beginning of the November, the month. And so this is when me and my husband have our money meeting and talk about money because we're nerds. And I know it is. And so I was looking at, you know, kind of the projections for how much I will earn

for this year. And I basically hit my, you know, big lofty goal of how much I will earn for this year and I basically hit my big lofty goal of how much I want my business to earn. Congratulations. Yeah, but I wasn't happy about it. That's the weird thing. I was talking to my husband, Josh. I'm like, I don't know why, but I'm kind of sad about it.

I don't know why that is. Do you know why that is? It's like I hit that goal and I wasn't happy. I can tell you what the research shows. Yes, please. I need some help. I have interviewed psychologists who work with celebrities, who work with famous athletes and after they win the Oscar, after they win the great cup, they're depressed.

They're depressed, depressed after because happiness researchers, positive psychologists, they actually tell you that your happy place, your Zen place is the work, is the work that you find fulfilling. It's having purpose, it's having a goal. So when you're working towards your goal of making a certain amount for your business, that's you doing your thing. You're like, I'm like, I'm killing it. This is good. And once you get there, you have these expectations. And obviously, happiness is relative. It's about your expectations

and you expect that you're gonna hit the school and you're just like, ah, and then you get there and you're like, well, what's next? You know what I mean? It's that, okay, you need this, you need this something. And there there is there is research that shows that if you want to spend money On on happier things one of the things to buy is anticipation So it's kind of like you know when you're a kid and you're super excited about Christmas Now in our life we can buy Anticipate an anticipation you pay for something now and enjoy it later or we can save something now and enjoy it later, or we can save for something and enjoy it later. And so that's why sort of working towards the goal is that's the

part that's really joyful, right? But looking forward to a vacation is actually more joyful than the part after the vacation. Or on the vacation. Sometimes you're like, this is fine. Maybe I'm just like, I have high expectations because that's like, I love the anticipation so much, especially like me and my husband went to Mexico for a week last year during the winter and I was so excited leading up to it. When we got there, it was great, but it's not like, it's never amazing. I have really high expectations, I think though. That's my problem. Adjust your expectations.

Right? I really do need to do that. But no, what you said is completely true because this happened exactly last year as well. It was like one of the first years that I made, maybe it was like second year, I made like a full on vision board and I achieved a lot of the things on the vision board. I should have been very happy about it, but after New Year's, so it's like, all right, I did it. I survived 2017. I hit a lot of my goals. The day after New Year's, so I guess New Year's Day, I was really depressed. I literally just

had to watch movies and just not talk to anybody all day. I'm like, this is weird. This is really weird. It seems so weird, right? So ridiculous. You think, no, I cheat. It's great. What's going on? But yeah, that's why there's a lot of positive coaches and success coaches that also say that you have to reward yourself as you go. So, sort of small rewards. I'm not saying if you save a bunch of money, go on a shopping spree, yay me. But, you know, some whole little rewards to give your brain that happy feedback.

And then as you go, you also have to push some of those goals, create some new ones, not necessarily push your goals further back, but even create a new one to look forward to. So you always have something to look forward to. You paid off this debt, and when that day comes, yes, but maybe when you're almost close to paying off the debt, if you want to ensure happiness

and to continue that motivation, maybe create a side goal, another money goal that you can also continue to work on. Yeah. Well, that's why usually when I work with clients where I'm talking to people and they're like, I really want to pay off debt, I'm like, great, but are you also saving money? Are you also investing money? I usually think it's not the best idea to just focus on debt repayment because usually you'll get back into debt once you get to zero because you don't actually have any good saving skills. But if you do multiple goals like you're also saving into your emergency fund, you're also investing, you've got these

other things going. So once you are debt free, you've still got this journey that you're on. Right. There's more. There are other things in life. I think we get tunnel focused on, let's use the example of talking to a client and saying, Hey, you know what, you need to get that debt down. It is totally screwing up the rest of your finances and it's putting your future in danger. So here's our budget. We need to talk about this and not talk about savings and not talk about investments and not talk about anything else in life. Again, I don't, I've heard from people say that it's not necessarily 100%

Effective because you're not also Dealing with the root cause of why somebody is in debt in the first place. So you ask what are the reasons why we? What do you Something that I always say is okay how do you use money in your life to be happier and some people use money to reduce pain right you buy when you're stressed you buy when you're depressed and it fills you with happy endorphins because that's what that does you buy you get this burst of dopamine in the brain and it feels good but then

that feeling dissipates and some people get into this debt cycle and because they're trying to fill the void and then they have A financial coach come in and say here's some tools, but there's no actual insight into Well, he's in pain. And so even if you give him tools once he's in pain again, the habit will be to spend Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's what I feel like, maybe not an epidemic, maybe that's a bit too big, but there's like so many people I know that is like the root of the reason when you talk to them like, why are you overspending or why are you spending on stuff that I know you don't care about? There's a reason.

It's usually to fill a void and stuff. And when I kind of look back on my own life, I'm like the times that I overspent and I look back, I'm like, what was I doing? Is it because I was in pain, I was hurting, I was depressed, I was trying to make me feel good. And that's also like a big reason why at the same time I was also like overeating and overdrinking. Yes, you're just trying to medicate pain by doing all sorts of things that make you feel good in the moment.

That's just one thing. I mean, some other people spend money or they try to buy a sense of self worth. And so you're feeling insecure, you're feeling not good, or your boyfriend just broke up with you and you need to show him that you're the shite. And so you go and you buy this thing that you don't necessarily need or want or should, but it means something. You've made it mean something to you, right? Or are you doing it because you're trying to keep up with the Joneses which everybody says which is why there's a chapter in

My in my book called F the Joneses And I know that seems obvious and I know people say I know it's hard day You know, I you get caught up in in what everybody else does and that's totally Normal, I mean you're human and as human beings, there is actual positive use to be able to look at our peers and kind of gauge how we are in society. There's a reason why we have that impulse, but it doesn't always serve us. No, and I feel like it's gotten harder too because it's not just like looking at your neighbor anymore.

It's like anything on the internet. It's like always in our face. Yes. And we're not some worse. I think we're media savvy. I think we're intelligent. But sometimes when you're tired, you're on the train and you're looking, you forget that internet frigging lies.

Okay. So you can rent a private jet for $250 just to take Instagram photos in you may you may choose to go to the Bellagio versus Some other budget hotel on the strip in Vegas But if you go to the plot Bellagio, you're gonna check in on Facebook. So everybody knows

Yeah, but just as men they hold that those those two, like that and another budget hotel may hold the same number of people, but you're more likely to brag if you have the fancy car. So that's what you're gonna see online. And so for me, I do, I get into that vortex. I get sucked into the mad comparison game and I have to put a tracker on my phone. I gotta really limit myself.

Or if I'm finding myself feeling crappy about, oh, well this person is this or this person is this, I have to quickly think, okay, no, no, no, I need to compare myself to someone I admire. What are the actual qualities I admire? Not necessarily the beautiful chandelier in their home, but maybe the hard work and the hustle and the discipline that they have to build a great business, which allows them to buy things that they care about. I think that's a really great strategy too. It's really looking at, and I probably have to do a nice little clean up on my Instagram and Twitter, but if you find yourself comparing yourself to people and not feeling good about

it, maybe take an audit of why is that and see if they're not adding to you in a positive way, if they're not inspiring you and motivating you, maybe unfollow and then find people that you can look up to in a good way. It's like they're doing some awesome stuff that's motivating me to also do awesome stuff, not make me feel like crap because I'm not doing as much. Right. You're trying to find people who share your values and people who are uplifting. I think as you get older and when you have kids, you have less time to deal with other people's crap and that friends of yours that don't

Necessarily hold you up They kind of fall away But when you spend time with this is according to research when you spend time with people who are Judgy it actually trains your brain to judge yourself more harshly and so You know sometimes we get fixated with negativity and the people that you surround yourself with, they talk about money too. And it's usually, well, people in my life usually bitch about money or they brag about weird things like things that they bought or things that they have.

And that sticks like negative, negative thoughts are super sticky. And that had, there's a reason for that because we as you know cavemen needed to remember that hey around this bend there's a saber-tooth tiger versus there's good berries there yeah it was for survival and so anything every anytime you have a negative thought about your own money anytime you have a negative thought about your own situation or your life or whatever you actually need to counter it according to research, the three positive thoughts. Ooh, I love that. That is the ratio.

That's the ratio to reprogram the neural pathways in your brain for positivity. Three to one, every single time. So find a buddy, find a best friend and hold yourselves to that. As soon as somebody says something negative about money, like, oh, I could be saving more or whatever it is, have the other person say, hey, yo, stop, give me three. Yeah. Pretty good thing. Give me three.

Oh my gosh, I love that. I feel like I definitely need to implement that with my husband because I do find, and I try to, when I do find myself complaining and I could just see in his eyes, he's like, oh my God, you're complaining for no reason. This isn't important, right? But it's like, I'm like, I try to be like, okay, let's just realize how ridiculous it is that I'm complaining. Like I have a lot of great things in my life. So let's also acknowledge the good. And I feel like that's a practice we

all need to be better at because it's very easy, just like you said, to be judgmental and to, you know, be negative. It's easier. It's just easier. It's so hard to actually be happy and positive. It's just easier. It's so hard to actually be happy and positive. It's like way more effort. Right, and so that was the thing that surprised me. I mean, I don't know how much, I don't know how much people know about my own personal journey,

but that was the reason for me writing my book was to help people realize that it is a bit of work to be happier. But you can do the work and no matter what happens, you actually can. And so I start my book off with a very personal story of where I had, I shared this in my speech. So I just got married. I was trying to build a life with my husband, I bought this townhouse in

the suburbs and I thought, this is great. I'm happily ever after. Let's do this. We're going to have kids. And my husband went on a ski trip and he got a prescription for sleeping pills and he doesn't take Tylenol. He doesn't do any drugs of any sort. And so he had a terrible, terrible reaction to the medication and became horribly depressed and terrified by anxious thoughts and suicidal ideations and he was eventually hospitalized. And during that time, I was working at the financial post

and writing about personal finance, but in my off hours, I was basically making it my life's mission just to be happy because I wanted to find happiness for myself and my husband. And so I did everything I could think of. I went on wellness retreats. I went to Buddhist temples. I listened to hours of lectures from resilience gurus, from Buddhist monks, from positive psychologists. And I read dozens of books. I bet you have a great book recommendation list. I do actually.

I do. We'll come back to it. Remember that and ask me about my book list for happy books. And I came across so much research and none of the research talked about money. But I knew that everybody was trying to buy happiness through money based on everything I was writing about on a daily basis at the financial post. So I went on this journey and I wanted to gain some lessons about well how then can we be happier with our life, truly happier and then use money

to support that. So it seems like you tried out a lot of different things. Did any of those things stick out? Because you mentioned like you read books, you went on retreats, you did lots of research. Did all of them together help you realize, oh, I think I know how to gain happiness? Or was there one thing that stuck out? You're like, wow, that really worked for me. One of the things that works for a lot of people is the idea of no victimhood So I had a post-it note on my mirror when I was going through the worst times for my husband and it said no

Victim hood because studies shows that studies show that when you see yourself as a victim You feel less empowered. You don't have any control over what's happening to you and to be happy to do the work to find a more fulfilling, balanced life, you have to feel a sense of control over that, right? No matter what happens, life will be crappy, but you have to feel that in some way, well, I can figure out how to react to it how to handle it. And so that's probably the first thing. And then after that it is it is really reprogramming your brain to be a little bit more focused

on what you have versus what you don't have. Gratitude exercises are really great. Finding meaningful relationships, spending a lot of time on experiences, spending money on experiences that bond you to other people. Charity work, even if it's not necessarily formal charity work, it's kindness.

So basically I have a note in my book where it says, every single day start the day with doing something kind for somebody else. So I used to go into the office and I would write somebody a note. Right away I would either tweet and say that was a great story, why are you so much smarter than me, or that was one of my reporter colleagues, or I would just write somebody and say thank you for something. Just meaningful, purposeful kindness that gives you the single most powerful boost

in your mood in a day. And so there was that. And then there are other things that you can spend your money on to be happier, like time. People who value time over money are happier. And so I tried to spend money and I'm cheap. So I don't do that. I think, oh, I'm not paying somebody else to do that. I can spend hours upon hours doing it myself, but it's not useful for your happiness.

And so I just thought, I self-published two teen novels several years ago. I was trying to save money everywhere and I thought, I'm going to learn how to format my book. I'm going to learn HTML and all these ridiculous things to save money. And I should have just paid somebody 200 bucks to do it because I could have been using that time in so many more effective and fulfilling ways. So yes, put a value on your time. That will make you happier. Mm-hmm, yes.

And I think, yeah, I mean, that just sounds like me. I mean, I know how to, I learned HTML because I'm like, I'm not gonna pay someone to make my website. I'll learn how to make my website myself. I'm like, right. But if you enjoyed it, I did. To be fair, I did. I did. That's different. You know, that's doing something that you, you gain a skill and then you can use that skill in the future. And that sounds reasonable, but it's something that you're just agonizing over and you think This is bull. Why am I doing this? And maybe we think about

it. Yeah. Well, I think it also to especially since I feel like I'm just like you super cheap, super frugal. I've always been like reading books and you know, but then the personal finance community for a while, I have my own like money issues with basically like actually spending money. Like I don't know what it is, but it makes me, it's really hard for me to let go of it. But I think what I'm kind of trying to do now is just being more intentional with how I'm spending my money

and that's making me actually happier. So instead of feeling bad, because of, oh, you're spending money and spending money is bad, just being like, no, no, no, no, I have a real purpose for spending this money. This is the result I'm probably gonna get and I never really regret it.

And I think it's, I spend my money in a different way. I don't really buy objects or stuff so much like sometimes I do, but a lot of it is focused on experiences or hiring people to help me with something that I want to improve upon in my professional life or my personal life. So I think we talked about this when we had a lunch a little while ago about how I'm like, I want to dress better, but I fricking hate shopping so much. And I actually just had a conversation with a friend who's a stylist and I think she's, I'm going to hire her to help me. And you know what? It's like, once we talked about

that, she's like, Oh, I can help you. And she had all these ideas. I'm like, Oh my God, I feel so much better. And I'm happy to spend that money. I'm happy to earn that money and spend it on something that's like, that's amazing. That's the way that is exactly the way to do it. I, and I'm not saying we're not talking about spending money that we don't have. We're talking about, yes, we siphon money out to pay our fixed expenses and our bills and to keep the charity and to our money goals, our priorities like retirement and education for our kids. But then there's this fun money that hopefully you can set aside because everybody needs a little bit of money to do enjoy and so, you know

Be purposeful. Yeah with that money, you know, am I spending in a way that is in line with my values? It sounds like you've got it, you know experiences on Time-savers that's definitely That's definitely something to spend your money in according to research that will make you more joyful, maybe other people. Spending to bond to other people, strengthen your relationships. I'm not saying buy someone's love, but- No, but I do find if I spend money and somehow there's a connection, it's related to being part of a community or being with people or having a conversation with someone, I always feel amazing after.

I always feel good. It's always a good use of my money. Yes, I would agree. Yeah, so going back to some kind of book recommendations, what kind of book recommendations do you have for people that are like me, that are looking for some things to read, during my downtime to kind of get my happy back,

to kind of learn some tools or just think of happiness in a different way? So for one of the things that got my husband out of his darkest spots was that the hospital, one of the hospitals that he visited actually prescribed a meditation class. So eight weeks of meditation versus medicine because they had found that they were having as much success with a meditation course or a mindfulness course as they were with drugs. And so when I try to talk about, you know, mindfulness meditation, um, as a antidote for pain and stress and money issues, because a lot of our shopping is done from

place of mindlessness, right? Or from places, of, as we said, from a place of trying to Medicaid stress and pain. So it's actually, it helps you be a little bit more mindful about some of your purchases and about, it gives you more space to to let your rational mind kick in and think, I need to think about the long-term repercussions of this action that I'm doing right now. It's a hard sell. It's a hard sell. It's a hard sell because some of my friends are thinking, you want me to, like I'm a yogi, like you want, I don't even like yoga.

And I think, I don't like yoga either. It's not about hippies and monks and that kind of thing. There's actual science. It's actually exercise for your brain. And one of the books that I found, which puts it into great perspective, and it's sort of the meditation book or the meditation intro for people who don't like to meditate. It's Dan Harris' 10% Happier.

Ooh, yeah. That sounds like me because I'm not into those. I'm not a woo-woo person. I'm not. My husband is a little woo-woo, but he was. When I met him, he just came back from Thailand and he did like a Buddhist monk retreat, whatever. And he had the prayer beads and I'm like, okay, like that's cool. So I'm not that person. So I'm, but I like the idea of meditation. I like it because I have like, just like you said, I've done some research and there's so much positive like information about how, yeah, meditation can really change the game. And I'm like, yeah, I don done some research and there's so much positive information about how

meditation can really change the game. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to medicate myself. I don't like that idea. I want to do anything that I can naturally to kind of help myself. And sometimes it's just being more mindful. So just sitting and eating your meal and not just shoveling it in your face hole while on your phone. There are other ways to be more mindful that you don't have to sit and do a proper class Or I like guided meditation So just your phones in for five minutes listen to someone talk to me a prompt me with questions about my life And maybe that's a lazy person's way of doing meditation

But anyways, Dan Harris is an ABC news journalist and he was having some massive mental Meltdowns and this is how he has found a more balanced place. And so I'm a big proponent of that. I love that book. If you want to get all technical and sciencey, the most readable book that I found on positive psychology and on training the brain for happiness is a book called Hard Wiring Happiness. It's by Dr. Rick Hansen. He's a neuroscientist

and he has very specific exercises in his book for you. He has some online content that it's not necessarily meditation, but they're guided exercises where you envision different things and it's training. It's exercise. Yeah, exercise for your brain. A happier brain, yes. vision, different things. And it's training. It's exercise. Yeah, exercise for your brain. A happier brain, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exercise for your brain and also physically. I stopped exercising with the intention of looking fitter or whatever. It's like, literally, it's just mental health.

And when I recognize, I'm like, I'm not happy. I'm feeling kind of sad usually when I look at my calendar, because I haven't worked out in a couple of weeks. So yeah, there's that huge component too. I mean, if you can spend money on something, try to spend money on something that will benefit your mental health or your physical health, because the physical health part is what will make you way happier. And I find that when I was filling my life with more of that stuff, like when I was spending my money more on wellness and on connections with people and on experiences. I was less worried about chasing material goods and I was less worried about having the dream home or whatever it is. And I just

think that a big conversation that we need to have is, you know, you need to structure your money and your life in a way that will give you more choices for the future and if you're just focusing on now now now I need to get all the stuff now then you know later on when a storm comes such as in the case with my husband and then you're gonna be less prepared and that storm is gonna be way worse. Yeah and and you know honestly like life is so unpredictable you do have to be prepared because no one's life is perfect. And I think most people listening could be like, yeah, there's definitely a couple times in my life where I thought everything was going smoothly

and then, you know, everything kind of crumbles. Absolutely. And when, yeah, absolutely. And when that happened with my husband, you know, we had, we were, we had luckily set up our money in more responsible ways. For other reasons, we bought a townhouse that was well below our budget because we could afford it on one income because we thought, well, one of us is going to stay home with the kid one day. Let's do it this way. I had disability insurance in case somebody couldn't work and we pooled our emergency

fund and all of those things came into play a month later. We had later, we had disability insurance in case he could work because he's self employed. We had a pool of money that he could go to a treatment center, which they started at $10,000. And at that point, when you are unwell, you need money for choices. You know what, can you imagine if you're, I have friends, I have loved ones who've been diagnosed with cancer and now they're seeking all these different treatments and all of these alternative therapies that cost money. And you think now they think, oh man, there's so much stuff that we bought in the last little

bit which was such a waste. It could be going to something more valuable right now, right? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I know we could probably learn so much more about all these amazing things. In your book, Happy Go Money, where can people find more information about you and your book? You can find me at melissaleong.com. I'm not the best on social media only because it sucks me in. And so I am most active on Instagram. So if you want to come and talk to me about some gratitude exercise, you want to share with me your progress and how you're doing on your happiness journey, then find me on

Instagram at Melissa Leong. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. It was a pleasure. And that was my Re-Listen episode with Melissa Leong, original episode number. If you want to check out the show notes, it's episode 181. Her book is Happy Go Money. Such an important read, but also still so freaking relevant all these years later.

So make sure to check it out. You can visit her website, melissaleong.com and follow her on Instagram at LIS. So Liz Leong, that's where you can find her. She's doing some great stuff. She's busy. She's always doing something. So she's someone I love just, you know, seeing what she's up to, seeing what she's up to. And some other books I think we made reference to. I'm just looking at the show notes right now. But if you're in this kind of mind of like, ooh, happy go money, then when I finished out, what should I read? 10% happier by Don Harris

than hard wiring happiness by Rick Hansen. I think she makes reference to them in her book, so make sure to check those out. And of course, speaking of, again, she as a person has just been a huge inspiration for me and my career, and also my book writing career, which started this, well, I guess, a couple years ago when I started writing.

But you can grab a copy of my book, Everything But Money, pretty much anywhere. You can go to jessicamorehouse.com slash book to just get some quick links and info about events that I'm hosting. I'm going to be busy promoting the heck out of this book all year. So even though my book tour may be wrapping up, I think as this episode airs, or it may not be quite done at this point, but I will be doing other events just because they're so much fun. So JessicaMoorhouse.com slash book is where you can kind of see what's going on,

but also follow me on Instagram at Jessica I'mMoorhouse to find out, um, you know, what's, what am I doing? What's, what am I up to? That's my suggestion for you. Okay. Well that is it for me. Thank you so much for listening. And I will see you back here next week with a couple new, you know, exciting episodes, a new interview, another relistened episode for you. So enjoy the rest of your week and see you then. The More Money Podcast would not be possible without the amazing talents of podcast producer

Matt Rideout, who you can find at mravcanada.com.