More Money Podcast - From the Archives: Relistening to Mike Drak Discuss Victory Lap Retirement

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

We spend most of our lives saving for retirement, but when we get there... what's next? In this episode originally released in 2019, I interview Mike Drak, author of retirement books like Victory Lap Retirement and Retirement - Heaven or Hell?, all about how to find your purpose in your retirement years, what it means to have a second career in retirement, and how to avoid some of the most common pitfalls for retirees like boredom and depression.This episode originally aired on October 16, 2019.To find the original show notes for this episode visit jessicamoorhouse.com/208Follow meInstagram @jessicaimoorhouseThreads @jessicaimoorhouseTikTok @jessicaimoorhouseFacebook @jessicaimoorhouseYouTube @jessicamoorhouseLinkedIn - Jessica MoorhouseFinancial resourcesMy websiteMy bestselling book Everything but MoneyFree resource libraryBudget spreadsheetWealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey More Money Podcast listeners, this is your host Jessica Morehouse and I want to let you know that I'm coming to Saskatoon on my book tour on Wednesday, April 16th to celebrate the release of my best-selling book, Everything But Money. And I want to see you there. It's free, it's going down at McNally Robinson, and you can save your seat by registering at jessicamorehouse.com slash book where I've got all my book tour info listed. Not only that, on that page you'll also find info about how you can access all of my exclusive book extras for free, which include special videos, audio, and worksheets. All you've got to do is give my book a rating or review online. To learn more and to grab a copy of everything but money,

visit jessicamorehouse.com slash book. Shop with Rakuten and you'll get it. What's it? It's the best deal, the highest cash back, the most savings on your shopping. So join Rakuten and start getting cash back at Sephora, Uniqlo, Expedia and other stores you love. You can even stack sales on top of cash back. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the More Money Podcast. I'm your host Jessica Morehouse, and I've got another re-listen episode for you. We are going back in time to 2019 and re-listening to episode 208 where I interviewed Mike Drak, the author of Victory Lap Retirement, which is what this episode's really about.

But he also, just in case you're like, oh, does he have any other books? Yes, he does. He also came out with a book a year after this interview called Retirement, Heaven or Hell, which will you choose? Oh, ominous. So two really great books, honestly, I often recommend to people that are looking for books specifically on retirement written by a Canadian author with that Canadian lens. But this one, I really liked Victory Lap Retirement, even though back in 2019, I mean, I was in my early mid 30s, I guess more early 30s. And I'm like, oh, that's miles away. And I read this book and I could actually finally picture myself in retirement.

And it's becoming a lot more real now as my parents are retiring. My dad retired this spring. This March, 2025 is when he retired. My mom is going to retire in another year. And so this very front of mine and very close to home for me, just seeing what my parents are, this transition they're going through,

and I can kind of honestly just envision myself in a couple of decades doing the same. And what his book is really about, it's not about retirement exactly. It's, well, it is, but it's not a book that's had a say for retirement. I think that's often when we think about retirement, we think about how to afford retirement. How much do I need to save? What's my number? All those, no, no, no, this is really about what happens after, what happens when you retire? I feel like this is just as important for anyone too in the fire movement. What happens once you reach fire? A lot of people don't think about that. They just think about reaching that goal. And it's really important to understand it's vital

to have a vision, a clear vision of what does retirement look like for you. Because there's a lot of stats in there and I know there were in his book that if you do not have a plan or a purpose in retirement, there's a lot of, you know, you can get depression, you know, you're more susceptible to health issues. There's a lot of things. So you really want to be prepared and have a plan so you can stay active and healthy and happy and purposeful and fulfilled in retirement. So that's really what this episode is about.

So you're gonna really, really love it. And also before I forget, because this will air just in time, I am coming to Saskatoon on April 16th at McNally Robinson in Saskatoon. Yeah, I mentioned that tonight. If you go to jessicmourhaz.com slash book, you can find more information about how to save your seat, how to register. But I would love to see you. This is my, this will be my sixth book tour stop. And also I haven't been to Saskatoon. I was just thinking about this the other day. Have not been to

Saskatoon since we, I think stayed a night there, me and my husband, while we were driving from Vancouver to Toronto when we moved to Toronto back in 2013. So it was one of our stops. We had a really great time in Saskatoon and it was such a nice memory. So I can't wait to go back. And that was like, yeah, gosh, 12 years ago. So it was about time I go back. So I'd love to see you.

If you live in Saskatoon, JessicaMoorhaz.com slash book is where you can find information about that book tour stop. And with that, let's get to that interview with Mike Drak. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hi folks, David here from Curious Canadian History. Did you know that before the Beatles Here's a show that we recommend. Terry takes us through the Beatles arrival in Canada, their early successes, and then discusses the relationship that the Fab Four had with this country. It's an incredible story, it's an incredible discussion about a little-known aspect of Canadian music history. And you can check out this episode when it drops on April 1st. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. Thank you, Mike, for joining me on the show.

I'm so excited to have you. Thank you, Jessica. I read the first edition of Victory Lap Retirement not too, well, maybe, maybe it's back in the winter. I don't know. I feel like I've been telling everybody I meet to pick up this book and I mentioned it on the news. That's how much I freaking loved your book.

So and I do not do that often. So I'm so excited to have you on the show. You have a second edition of the book with a third author. I'm so excited to first just get to know you a little bit more. You have a second edition of the book with a third author. I'm so excited to first just get to know you a little bit more because you have a long history in the financial services industry. Can you kind of tell me a little bit more about your background and what got you inspired to write this book called Victory Without Retirement? Well, you know, I was in the banking industry for 36 years with one bank. I worked there my whole life. And

then one day they decided to package me off before my time. And I had to figure out this retirement thing for myself, you know, exactly. How old were you when that happened? I was late fifties. Oh yeah. So you're like, I'm not ready to, that's not the plan. Well, no, the plan was to work hard, save a lot more money and bulk up my retirement savings for eventual retirement. But I never really thought about what retirement was all about. I had no idea, to be honest, right? So when I was packaged off, I went out and I got my hands on every retirement book and financial planning book I could, looking for an answer. And I couldn't find it because most of them just focus on the money aspect.

And what I wanted to know was, well, what exactly do you do in retirement? How do you occupy your time? How do you become happy? And that's what I was looking for. And I couldn't find it in the book. So I had to figure it out for myself. And that's what motivated me to write the book to help others come up with a similar solution. Yeah, no. And I think that's why I actually really liked your book because I've read quite a few retirement books and man, are they boring boring and dry and they are just focused on finding your number and you're like yeah but this was the first book that I read that actually got me thinking about

it's not just about how much wealth you need in order to survive in retirement but it's just like what is that life like and most of the time when people think about that they're like oh I don't know I'll just like hang out or I'll finally write that great novel or start painting or travel the world or volunteer. And to me, I'm like, yeah, but why do you have to wait for me? Because I feel like that is a very common story where people will putting off doing their passion until they retire. For me, I'm like, oh my gosh, that is so many decades away. Why do I have to wait that long to do that? And that's, I don't know why that's a very common story, but now you are retired.

What did you, when you had to make that transition, it did sound like you prepared yourself. What was it like? I immediately went into retirement shock for at least six months because you're not prepared for it. It feels like you're getting pushed out of your tribe. I worked in a place for 36 years. All my friends were there. That was a big part of my life and all of a sudden you're on the

outside looking in. And on Monday morning, the first day of retirement, the phone doesn't ring. You don't get any emails, you could hear the sound of a pin dropping in your house, you go, oh my god, what am I gonna do? And you have to figure that out. I was totally unprepared. But, you know, once I started to settle down a little bit and think things through, I started coming up with some solutions for myself that worked out quite well, but it took me a little bit of time. So yeah, how did you kind of develop these ideas

and what did you end up, I mean, I guess writing books is one thing, but what did you kind of figure out? How am I gonna fill my time and find fulfillment in retirement? Okay, so number one, I have a hard time with the word retirement in itself. I think it's a terrible word. Uh, traditional full stop retirement doesn't work anymore because it's,

it's almost impossible to, you know, fund 30 years of retirement with 30 years of work and this causing a lot of stress for people. So I wanted to come up with a lifestyle that would work for me. I like working. I enjoy it, but I just didn't want to do that banking job anymore. I was kind of, you know, tired of it. I wanted to do something new. I want to have something more flexible and something that I would really love to do for a long

time. And, you know, best case scenario, I would never retire. I would just keep doing what I love to do. So, but I had to find that I had to figure it out for myself. And you know, I got this one I finally figured things out. That's what motivated me to write a book to help other people and say, hey, there's so much you can do. But it's important to find your purpose and your passion. And it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. It takes a lot of time and soul searching and deep reflection. But it's possible. And once you do that, life turns out pretty good.

Yeah. Do you think it's because, I mean, for me, that's always been very important in my life. Like since an early age, I've always been, and this could be just for having like my dad, he's a creative. And so passion and finding your purpose and your passion has always been very important to me in my life. But I know a lot of people, they are, they just get swept up in the busyness of life and checking off that life checklist of, you know, finding a partner, having children, you know, buying a house, having that successful career, going up the corporate ladder. And by the time you know it, then you're retired and you've never really had a good thought about, but what actually do I want to do in life? What do we want to create or whatever?

Is that kind of why a lot of people when they retire, they're like, oh my gosh, I've actually never really thought about this because I was just living life. Well, what happens? Well, you're not really living this. I would call it something else. But what you're doing is you're trained to pursue money. And the corps do that. Your parents teach you that. The schools teach you that, that you have to compete and make as much money as possible. So you're successful when you compare yourself to others. And it's the wrong message. And many times, you know, early in life, we have a feel for what we would like to do, what we're capable of, the gifts we've been giving.

But we lose sight of that once we go to work for a large corporation. And, you know, we copy the way they do things, they act, and we want to be a good corporate soldier so we can get promotions and things like that. So we really get off track from who we really are and what we really like to do, because we're chasing security for our family and things like that. We're trying to pay down the mortgage and we're trying to save up funds for retirement. And, you know, when you go into like victory lap, that's your chance to get back to square one and say, hey, you know what, I want to reconnect with myself. I want to figure out what I really like to do

and try to find a way of pursuing that. And money's not the main driver anymore. It's having fun. Yeah. And enjoying what you're doing. And that's the search that we're on in Victory Lap. And when we can identify those things and we actually start doing them, life is, is

so much better. And then why would you retire from something that you love to do? Right? Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. Yeah. And I completely agree.

After reading your book, I'm like, you read, I don't like the word retirement because, you know, in the past, it was that you're done working because you probably physically cannot work anymore. And then you're going to die within 10 years. That doesn't sound fun. I don't want to just like sit in a rocking chair and wait for my death. But that's the way it was. Yeah, it really was terrible.

Yeah. People don't understand that retirement is a manmade thing. They invented it to solve a problem the corporations had. And yes, early on it did work because people, like you said, they didn't live that long. And you know, they didn't need much money to, you know, live in retirement. But now people working, you know, living 30 plus years in retirement, that just doesn't work anymore. They have to take a new approach and they have to accept that maybe working at something makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. And I think that's what actually your book gave me a lot more hope. Cause I sometimes worry about my retirement because I'm self-employed. So is my husband. He always has been. And so, okay, we have to fund our retirement. We're not going to get a pension. We're not going to get anything like that. We have to figure that out. And when we think about how much we need to accumulate for, as you said, a 30 plus year retirement, terrifying.

And I hear that sentiment from a lot of other millennials. So we've had a rough go, a lot of us that kind of had to experience the recession. I experienced it right at the beginning of my career. So that was, you know, pretty shocking. And then it's like we're paying off student loans, we have to buy a house, there's all these expenses. And then on top of that, we also have to save all this money for retirement. It just seems kind of like an impossible task.

So that's what I really liked the messaging in your book was you don't have to do this, like you said, full stop retirement. It's just not, it doesn't make sense to me anyways. You need to figure out other ways to have, you know, income coming in besides what you've already saved. That's right. And for me, that gave me a lot of hope actually. I'm like, okay, good.

There is a different strategy because no one else is talking about this. I don't know why. Well, Jessica, you get it. And hopefully a lot more people get it because they're going to need to get it or they're going to have some problems, right? What I like to do is remove the word retirement and replace it with the term financial freedom. And that's what I'm teaching my kids is forget about this retirement thing work towards financial freedom and when you obtain financial freedom then you're free to do whatever you want and it's it's such a beautiful feeling to say you know what I don't have to work but I want to work but I want to work at

something that I enjoy and and then it's not really work. The lines between work and leisure get very blurry, right? I love the concept of young people starting side gigs and being prepared for whatever could happen down the road, creating their own business, making some money on the side and finding something they have a passion for, that they can monetize and use that down the road when they finally leave their primary career. And those are things that, you know, we're starting to tell people, start doing this, do it five years before you're officially going to retire. And if something happens, by chance, if they package you off or whatnot, you're off to

a good start. Absolutely. No, and I think that's why I really liked your book. This is something that's kind of a friend of mine. My parents are like my mom's still working for the school board in BC, but my dad, he worked for a company for, I think it was like 30 years. Um, and he got packaged off just like you. And it was very unexpected. He thought he just had to put another 10 years in and he'd be good to go.

He got a pension and all this stuff. Nope. That's just not what he expected. And we were all pretty shocked. And, uh, so what he had to do was figure out, okay, what am I going to do? He was a graphic designer for this new station. He didn't want to do that. Well, he couldn't get a job like that anymore

because all these new stations don't have as much money as they once did when he first started. And so he had to honestly, he had to go back to school in his fifties and retrain and learn something new. And so now he's, he is working again, but in a very different industry, very different way. He's not a full-time employee. He works contracts for the film industry. And it's interesting because for me, I'm like,

oh, I get it because I'm self-employed or I've always had a side hustle. So I'm used to just like figuring it out, make your money, whatever way you can for him. It's a big struggle, but I think it will actually help him because now as he's approaching retirement age, he will understand to kind of, you know, have his own side hustle, which he hopes to be, you know, writing children's books and making art and stuff. So like you said, it's like he's actually preparing now for that eventual retirement. So it won't hopefully be as big of a shock, you know, that's right. That's right. Yeah, I think transition to a full stop retirement is very stressful. It's almost equivalent to getting the bends when you're coming up from deep waters or skin diving. If you come

up too fast, it's going to cause you some problems and people need time to adjust and get used to it and transition slowly into retirement over years, right? But it's funny, whenever I read articles of people that live a long time, I find these people that also worked a long time, with late in life, and that gave them a reason to get out of bed in the morning, and there's a lot of benefits attached to continuing to work late in life, that people have to recognize and understand and

take advantage of. But yet everyone the banks love, the industry loves to sell this full-stop retirement thing. And it's just, I think you got to be very careful with it. They should put a warning on those commercials like they do and those drug commercials. The side effects of full stop retirement so people are aware. Yeah, because I know it's very common and it makes sense too. It's almost kind of like the same, I'd say feeling if you've ever been laid off or fired.

I've experienced unemployment in my career where you can't really be fully prepared for not working anymore. Because like you said, it's like, that's where your community is. That's where your friends are. You have the sense of purpose. You have a reason to wake up every day. When you have this full star apartment retirement, you don't have that anymore.

And yeah, if you just don't work anymore, like what is kind of like, it would be like, what's the point though? Like, what am I doing? And so you need to have something to do whether now I guess my question is, does some people do feel like, oh, well, I'll just like volunteer and stuff. Is it important for them to continue to earn money or is it just about being busy in retirement? It depends on your situation, right?

If you have enough retirement savings or passive income coming in where you don't have to work. You can get away from it by doing volunteer activities or things like that, but you still have to replace purpose. You know, originally your purpose was to work hard, make money, take care of the family, pay down the mortgage. And when you lose that purpose, when you leave your job or the kids leave and the mortgage is gone, you have to replace it with something or you're going to be lost.

And it's going to cost you large. So, you know, even though you have money, you still need purpose in some form and it comes in a variety of forms, but you have to find a purpose that will work for you. That will get you excited. That will give you some passion to get out of bed in the morning. right? And if you don't have it, you got a problem. Yeah. Cause it's fairly common for people to experience kind of signs of depression and stuff when they don't have a plan and they just, you know, sure. But it's really funny because, you know,

there's different people in every field, right? And some people can get away with it. I know a guy that's retired. He wakes up every morning around 12 o'clock. He doesn't even care what day it is. He doesn't do much other than watch TV, but he's happy. Now there are people like that. And you know, who am I to say that's wrong?

It works for them. But there's so many other people that need something, that need purpose. And those are the ones that are going to pay a price if they can't find it. And that's what we're trying to coach to is to say, okay, let's talk and let's find something for you to do. I know one gentleman that he was packaged off from his chemical engineering job and He took the severance check and he said, you know what when I was younger I used to love the paint and this is a true story. You hear these pain stories all the time

It's a true story cuz I know and he said to his wife, he said, you know what? I'm going to take some of this sempernus check. I'm going to take the loft upstairs in our house. I'm going to buy some painting supplies, and that will be my studio. And I'm going to give it a shot. Because he stopped doing it because his father told him, look it.

You can't make money producing art and expect to get married and raise a family. You got to get a real job. And so he went out and started doing it and we're on a word of a lie. He's making more money now than he did in this chemical. Oh my gosh. And he's loving it. Every day is the happiest guy in the world and I'm jealous, but you see it's out there. You just have to find it. And I can tell you so many stories about different situations where it worked out so well, but people have to get it over their initial fear of, you know, you know, I'm not good enough or I can't do that. I've never started a business

or how will I get customers? And those are the ones we need to sit down and hold their hand and say, Hey, it works. Let's think this through. You have so many qualities in so many experiences, you can take advantage of that it's hard for you to lose. But they have to start to think that way and realize that and believe in. And also in terms of like the business side of things, we're in the best time I'd say ever for you to get that information for free. There's the internet and there's so many ways that you can now find clients through the internet. It's not like you have to set up a shop anymore and get customers off the street. It's actually the easiest time ever to start a business and to find out how to

run a business. You don't have to go to university to learn this stuff anymore. No, no, I think, you know, I'm starting to think maybe first he's a waste of time. I'm not going to tell my kids that yet, but I have some feelings about that and I'm starting to wonder, right? But you know what I like about these, these let's call them portable businesses is you can do it anywhere in the world. You don't have to be in Canada to do it.

And you've got a laptop and connection, you're off to the races. And so many people are doing neat things. Like I know one couple, they go to garage sales and they try to find these old antique dolls that they fix up refurbished and they sell on Amazon and eBay. And there's passion. They love what they're doing and they're making money at it and they're their own bosses. Like, you know, how do you define the life of Riley? I think they have it there. And it's just another example of people being creative. And I love when when we go to the libraries and we talk to, you know, recent retirees and they come up and they say,

Hey, guess what? This is what I'm doing. And it's really working out well. I'm having a lot of fun in the creativity is just unbelievable. And it's very exciting. Yeah, absolutely. It, for me, it's, I used to honestly dread the idea of retirement. I used to tell people I'm never retiring.

And I think actually what I meant was the exact concept that you have in your book. It's like, well, I'm never going to stop working. I may shift and may not work as much, but I never want to stop because well, I think it also depends on to like, I think so. I don't know if you've heard, you probably have of this whole movement called fire, financially independent retire early. It's getting bigger and bigger. There's so many, I just came back from a conference and it's a very huge community of people striving

to become financially independent and retire early at a very young age, like thirties, forties, which is aspirational. I find it very stressful myself because I'm just worried about regular retirement. But what I've seen for all these people is basically they're doing the kind of like what we're talking about is like they're not hoping just to accumulate so much wealth so they can finally hang out on the beach and just read books. It's honestly most of the time they reach financial independence and what do they do? They start a blog, they start writing books, they find out what their passion is and they start a business. Isn't that so funny?

But you know what's interesting is they hate to admit that they're working. Yes. Post-FI. Yes. And I hate, I hate fire. I'd rather just have it FI and take the RE off the back end because it's not true. It's just exactly what you said. Yeah. No one's not working. They're all working. Believe me. Yeah. They had to because they'd be bored

out of their mind. Exactly, especially having achieved this huge achievement. They've worked so hard for like a decade and you're just gonna stop and not work anymore? Yeah, right. You're too ambitious for that. Yes, but they should celebrate their freedom because they're free to do whatever they want,

whenever they wanna do it. And they take that freedom and they do some creative things and that's what they're doing and I don't know why they're embarrassed to admit that. I think it's like any kind of extreme community in the personal finance world like I saw that a lot with the debt community like people would be very supportive of each other if you were paying off debt once you became debt-free. It's almost like you're kicked out of the community. It's like, bye, you're debt-free. You don't belong here anymore. And you're like, we should be celebrating the people that do not have debt anymore. But it is what it is. So I don't know. I see a lot of feelings and judgment around

that, which is why I've, you know, at first I really liked the concept of it because I'm like, what a great, if you don't have some big money goal, what a great goal to set yourself to kind of move forward. But then I also see there's a lot of opinions out there and I'm like, well, I feel like this could also make people feel not good enough or whatever. There's a lot of issues in the community. Take what you will from it. You know what I mean? Take what you will. That'll work for you. It depends how frugal you want to be.

I want to live a little bit too. So I'm teaching my kids the concept of FI. But you know, I'm saying, but once you have your freedom, you got it. You can't stop. You got to keep going and you have to figure it out for yourself. But I said, don't start saving for retirement. Save for FI. It makes more sense to me. That's just more exciting too, I think. Yeah, for sure. Oh, and it's a good goal. You can see it. Then you get excited when

you get closer to it. It's a wonderful goal to have. So I love the concept. I just don't like the RE part. Now, I agree. I agree. So you have the second edition of your book, Victory Lap Retirement. You've added a third author. So before it was just you and Jonathan Chavreau. Now we've got Rob Morrison.

What are the kind of new updates people can expect from this new book? And what does Rob Morrison add to the table in this book? Okay. So two reasons why we did the revision was number one, there was a lot of feedback we were getting from people at the seminars and the zoomer shows and everything like that. And they, they, they want it more. So they want more ideas, they want it almost like a step by step process. So what we've done is we've added more to the original book and I'm in the process of writing a follow-up book, which will be a national

transition guide to Victory Lab. Ooh, I like that. So yeah, I'm really excited. It's going to be out next year. I got to get it into the auditor by December, but I know it's going to help a lot of people make them feel better about it, right? The reason I brought Rob in was I wanted to release the book in the US and Rob's based in Chicago. He's president of financial services firm So he knows a lot about the investment advisory space, the rules in the US, the different concepts.

You know, basically they're same as ours, but they just have different names and whatnot. So we brought him in to provide that information and also to provide more stories to make sure that, look, we covered off both aspects on both sides of the border. And basically it of the border. And basically it's the same. And we went a little bit deeper. We described retirement cashflow in a little bit more detail. I'm using that word retirement again, because I'm forced to.

We wanted to talk about some of the pitfalls and things that people go through when they retire, such as kids holding their hands out and things like that. So we want to talk about some of those aspects. And as life goes on and we learn more and we see different needs from retirees, we're going to revise it and keep it up to date. Since you mentioned it, I'm curious, what are your thoughts? Because I see a lot of articles out there about how, you know, young millennials are, you know, basically

taking the money from their parents and now their parents don't have enough for retirement. What are your thoughts on that? Is that something you've come in contact with? Oh, I've seen it. I've seen it. And it really concerns me because I think for some reason we got a little carried away and maybe we spoiled our kids a little bit. And because you know, the, the intent was we want them to have a better life than we have. So, you know, we want them to have a bigger house and a better job and a nicer car and go on better vacations. And so now, because those things are so expensive, and they're struggling, you know, we're, we're many times stepping up to

the plate and kind of supporting them acting as an ATM, which I, you know, I think it's a big mistake. But it's hard to stop something that you've already created. Yeah, it's for me, my feelings on this is that I wouldn't, like if I had kids, I feel like I understand the desire to help your kids financially, but I don't think you're really helping them because you're not teaching them. No, totally correct. You want your kids to be self-sufficient and be able to learn how to make their own money. I feel like that is why I am so comfortable right now in my life.

I didn't come for money, but I definitely learned some great skills from my family on how, if you need money, there's a way to make it, but you're going to have to work hard at it. You're probably going to work some jobs that you feel are beneath you, but just do what you got to do. And my husband is the same way. And so we learned so much from those lessons because our parents honestly couldn't afford to give us any money, but from the kids that do get that money, I don't think they're learning those really important lessons. And so they're just learning.

If you need help, go ask mom and dad. That's right. That that's the default. And you, you know, but you can't blame them all the time too, because it's harder to get a good job. It's harder to get a job that has benefits. You're coming out of school now with student loans and things like that. And just the price of housing in a place like Toronto or Vancouver. It's crazy. And I'm struggling even with the idea

of maybe they shouldn't buy homes now. Why put that pressure on you early in life to carry maybe, you know, five hundred six, seven hundred thousand dollar mortgage and got jobs aren't guaranteed. Like they were kind of were when I was working like there was an unwritten agreement way back when that you work hard and we'll cover you off and we'll make sure. Yeah. It's like, if you stay loyal, we'll also stay loyal. It's like, I've never experienced that in a job. No, and you never will. Yeah. Yeah. So.

But I did. I did. And it's, everything changed in the eighties, right? And it's sad. It's sad. It is hard. Like, that's the thing. It's, it's, it's definitely different world. It's definitely harder in some respects. We cannot get the same things that our parents got as easily, but on the other side of it, um, there's so many things that we can, I think, experience and explore that my, our parents can like travel. It's actually so much more affordable now to travel than it was in my parents. My parents never had enough money to travel, but maybe it's also like priorities are different. They definitely wanted to own

a home. They never traveled. I think their first real trip together was on their like 20th anniversary. It's crazy for me. I'm like, well, it took me a lot longer to eventually buy a home with my husband, but we've been on lots of trips. So well, it's a trade off. you see, you're trading off a lifestyle versus buying a home. Yeah. But it's interesting where you said, you know, I basically mirrored the lifestyle your parents went through. And now I'm traveling a lot, you see, and the reason I can afford to do that is because I'm still working a bit, right? So I use that cash flow. I have FI, but any additional cash flow that comes in from my work I do, I spend. And I spend it on lifestyle for my wife and my kids so we can have a lot of fun together. Because I understand the pressure they're under,

and I really want to keep a close watch on them to make sure that they don't crack. And I want to make sure they have a little bit of fun too. So, you know, to go on an annual family vacation where they can, you know, let their hair down and have a lot of fun and get reconnected is so important. And that's why, that's part of my purpose is for what I work so I can fund these things. Yeah, and I think that's also a good incentive for anyone who's like, oh, do I wanna work in retirement?

It's like, you can have a lot of fun with that extra money that you're making in retirement. So I made it my model, I'm turning 65 in October. And it's my reminder, I just told my wife last night this, the next 10 years are going to be the best 10 years of our life. And I said, just watch it. And I mean it. And I think I can do it. So, you know, the sky's the limit, really. But you got to change your perspective. Yeah, you definitely it is a lot of mindset. And that's why I'm so glad that you were able to share on the show and your book. I'm so glad that you have a new versions that people can check out to in Canada and the US. And I think it will give people a very important kind of updated perspective on retirement or financial freedom or whatever you would like to call it. Because I agree the old kind of idea of retirement, we need to put that away. It's just not working for anybody. So we need to move forward.

Could I add one more thing, Jessica? Absolutely. And this is going to be in a new book. What I've noticed is that I go to, I work out, I go, I joined a swimming tribe, I call it. So I go swimming three times a week and I joined a gym and I joined a bike riding club and whatnot. And I'm noticing people like old, like people, you know, that would be classified as older people, people, you know, that would be classified as older people. They're so vibrant. They're in such great health and they have such great attitudes. And I refer to them as retirement rebels because they're breaking the old

mold of what old people should look like and act like. I got an 80 year old I swim with. No, sorry. 79. He's going to celebrate his 80th birthday by doing Iron Man Cozumel oh my gosh I can't even that's crazy I know it but you see these I'm seeing what people are capable if they want to work at it and take care of themselves and if they have a great attitude and many of these people are still working.

So I'm looking at this lifestyle and I'm going, no one talks about this stuff, right? And I'm looking at these people and I know some of these people, the 70, 80 year old people, they could outrun a 40 year old, maybe even a 30 year old in some cases. Oh no, they can probably beat me for sure. But I'm saying look at the possibilities if you look at it and you change your lifestyle and you do the right things in your discipline, you can have a long and healthy life and you can catch up for all those hard times you went through and that's what we're doing. Yeah, basically getting rid of this ridiculous notion that it's all downhill from whatever

age. Not exactly. Not true. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that makes me feel like I definitely need to work out today. So do I.

If that 80 year old is doing an Ironman, I better get to work. It's a beautiful thing, Jessica. I'm telling you. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much, Mike, I'm telling you. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much, Mike, for joining me on the show. I'll have to have you back again when your new book is out. Oh, that would be wonderful, Jessica.

It's been wonderful talking to you today. Before I let you go, where can people find more information about you and your book, Victory Lap Retirement? Okay. They can visit the victorylapretirement.com website. We do a weekly blog there. So there's all kinds of new information coming down all the time. And if they want to order the book, they can do it through the website where, you know, we send out signed copies of the book and we include a retirement rebel wristband,

or they can buy it at, you know, chapters are on Amazon. Awesome. But yeah, we try to keep things current and give out new information all the time. And what we're trying to do, and you used the word before is give people hope, hope for a better future, a better retirement. And there's a lot of things they can do to make that happen. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much again. It was so nice chatting with you. And that was my episode with Mike Drack. The original episode number for this interview that was put out October 2019 is episode number 208. So you can check out the show notes for that. If you like, just go jessicamorehouse.com slash 208. If you ever also FYI,

wanna find the show notes for any particular episode, go to jessicamorehouse.com slash the number of that episode or just go to jessicamorehouse.com slash podcast and you can do a little search or you can always DM me or email me and be like, what was that episode about this thing? And I can try to find it for you. I do not mind.

As a reminder, Mike Drak is the author of Victory Lap Retirement, as well as Retirement Heaven or Hell that came out in 2020. Let's see, does he have any more books? I feel like this guy's been busy. Um, oh, what's this book? I'm just on online right now. He also came out with a third book in 2022 called Longevity Lifestyle by Design, Redefining What Retirement Can Be. This sounds like a great trilogy to read personally, so I am a big fan. And as I mentioned at the top of this episode, I am still going on my book tour. Lots of people are like, are you done? I'm like, I know it was like, it's felt

done but I'm not done because honestly, every time I do one, I'm like, let's do this again. This was so much fun. Um, and so I am coming to Saskatoon. That is in the calendar, April 16th. I'm coming to Saskatoon at McNally Robinson. You can save your seat. It is absolutely free, but I like to know what numbers, uh, so I can prepare it at the bookstore.

So just go to jessicamourhous.com slash book to find more information, to go to the Eventbrite page to register. It's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait to go back to Saskatoon. And yeah, have a good time with you all. So see you in Saskatoon. And hopefully we'll have a few more dates that I'm trying to lock down soon. But you know, sometimes it's not up to me. Sometimes I have to wait for confirmation from this bookstore or this library. So we're waiting to hear back about Winnipeg and Halifax. We are waiting. But I really want to go. I really want to go. So I will let you know how you keep up to date with all of these dates because sometimes I don't

have time to put them in the podcast, or by the time the episode airs, you know, I can't get the live thing in there because sometimes I pre-record these things, is to follow me on Instagram at Jessica Moorehouse or subscribe to my newsletter, Jessica Moorehouse.com slash subscribe. That's where you can do that. And one other thing, in case you don't know, I've got a book myself. Obviously that's why I'm on a book tour. That's pretty obvious. It's called Everything But Money and if you buy it or hey if you borrow

it from a friend, library, I don't care, you can access some book extras for free. Again, if you go to JessicaMoorhouse.com slash book there will be a bunch of information there. But if you give my book a rating or review online, you know, Indigo, Amazon, Goodreads, or wherever else you can, Kobo, wherever else you want to give a book review, just take a screenshot of that. You can upload it to me and then you'll get instant access to all these book extras that include video, audio, worksheets to help you with all the exercises, all that kind of good stuff.

And then, you know, you'll help me out and support this new Canadian debut author. And I would love you forever. So, you know, jessicamorehouse.com slash book is where you can do that. Okay, that is enough for me. Thank you so much for listening. And I will see you in my next podcast episode. Have a good rest of your day. The More Money Podcast would not be possible without the amazing talents of podcast producer Matt Rideout, who you can find at mravcanada.com. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hi folks, David here from Curious Canadian History. Did you know that before the Beatles

ever made it big in the US, they actually first arrived in Canada? To deep dive into this incredible story, we've brought on the legendary broadcaster Terry O'Riordan. Terry takes us through the Beatles arrival in Canada, their early successes, and then discusses the relationship that the Fab Four had with this country. It's an incredible story, it's an incredible discussion about a little known aspect of Canadian music history. And you can check out this episode when it drops on April 1st.