More Money Podcast - Transforming Waste into Profit through Sustainability - Founder of Bo, Mishel Wong

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

This is a special mini-series of the More Money Podcast sponsored by Visa Canada to highlight the latest winners of the Visa She’s Next Grant Program.Is it possible to be sustainable and profitable as a business? Michelle Wong, founder of Bo, a software company focused on reusable containers, is on the podcast to share just how possible it is to run a green business. Coming from a family of entrepreneurs, after a decade working a 9-to-5 in sales for an industrial cleaning solutions company, Michelle realized she wasn’t fulfilled in her career. That’s when she decided to start her entrepreneurial journey, which started with a tutoring franchise but pivoted into the reusable container space. Inspired by the increase in takeout due to the pandemic, she saw how big a need there was for a sustainable solution for food packaging. Since then, Bo has scaled from restaurants to festivals and cafeterias, reducing waste and a reliance on single-use plastic. Michelle shares how her social mission has always been at the forefront of her business, what barriers she’s faced as a woman founder, and goals for the future.For full episode show notes visit jessicamoorhouse.com/440Learn moreLearn more about BoLearn more about Visa's grant programFollow meInstagram @jessicaimoorhouseThreads @jessicaimoorhouseTikTok @jessicaimoorhouseFacebook @jessicaimoorhouseYouTube @jessicamoorhouseLinkedIn - Jessica MoorhouseFinancial resourcesMy websiteMy bestselling book Everything but MoneyFree resource libraryBudget spreadsheetWealth Building Blueprint for Canadians course Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, this is Landis from What the F, the podcast that's about adulting, but with epilepsy and all the what the F moments that come with it. From those awkward days in the office to dating disasters, med side effects to the latest science, there's nothing that's too weird to talk about here. So if you ever thought, what the F is happening with my brain, you're in the right place. New episodes drop Tuesdays. Pull up a seat. It's going to be good. Lou Lou, Lou, Jessica Morehouse here, and welcome to a special mini-series of the More Money podcast, sponsored by Visa Canada. In this series, we're shining a light on some of the latest recipients of the Visa She's Next Grant program by speaking with incredible Canadian women to learn more about their inspiring entrepreneurial journeys. Each year, the Visa She's Next Grant program selects 20 recipients to receive $10,000 in funding, along with access to an accessible. Accelerated coaching and mentorship program through WISP at York University.

Since the program's inception, Visa has provided more than $900,000 in funding to help empower women-owned businesses from coast to coast with the tools and resources they need to grow. Now, as a woman entrepreneur myself, I wanted to do something a bit different with my podcast and use my platform to share the stories of these women so we can all get to know and support the incredible Canadian businesses they're building. If you like to learn more about the Visa Shoes Next grant program, head over to visa.ca.ca slash grant program. Please note the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely my own and those of the guests and do not reflect the views of Visa or its affiliates. For this episode, I'll be interviewing Michelle Wong,

who is based in Montreal, Quebec. Michelle is the founder of Bo, a software company that lets consumers borrow containers from restaurants and return them to decentralized locations, which will handle pickup, wear washing, and redistribution. Bo offers a 10,000, peck-driven scalable solution for reusable packaging, making it effortless for businesses and consumers to transition away from single-use waste to put sustainability at the forefront to make a measurable impact. All right, let's get to that interview. Welcome to the More Money Podcast, Michelle. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Hi, Jessica. Thank you for having me. You're so welcome. So to kick things off, I would love to know a little bit more about your

journey. I know part of it, I'm assuming, is you were always attracted to the world of entrepreneurship because you came from a family of entrepreneurs. Was that, in fact, a big inspiration or is that just coincidence? It's actually funny. I wouldn't even say it's an inspiration just because when you live in a certain way of life, you don't see what it is. So what I mean is only until recently that I realized that I grew up in a household of people who don't have nine to five jobs and they hold weird hours. So I would see my parents like be able to lunch for like two, three hours, literally. And then in the middle of supper at 7 p.m., there'd be a client calling and then they go into like a client voice mode. It's like, yes, sir, yes, we'll get you

the file. And it just kind of weaves into daily life very seamlessly. And growing up around that, I didn't realize at which point it conditioned me to the concept of working when there's things to do. And when there's nothing urgent, the time is yours. So it's a weird type of work-life balance, but it only became really obvious when I first got my nine to five job. And I couldn't grasp like, you're going to clock in and then try to be productive for the entire block of time. but sometimes there's less things to do. Sometimes there's more things to do. Sometimes you don't finish, but you're on a roll, but then you kind of clock out because it's no longer work time. So to answer your question, it's not inspiration so much as having grown up in a different type of

environment. Yeah. And I guess realizing, oh, that's a pretty good environment. I want that kind of flexibility because when you work nine to five, it's definitely less flexible. Oh, yeah. Like, I thought I was going to die. I thought my soul was going to die. I thought my soul was going to die. I went to work the first week. I came home. I'm like, this can't be life. Like, is this what people do for the rest of their lives? Is this what adulting is about? It's what they do. It's what they do for decades. And I was there just like with you. I was a employee for seven or eight years and then took the leap into entrepreneurship. I'm like, oh, what is this? This is interesting. It has its, it has its pros and cons. And I'm sure that was part of your journey as well as figuring out, number

one, what kind of business you wanted to do. And then also figuring out where is the balance and how to create your own structure? Because you still need some structure. So I'm curious what that was like. And was Bo the first idea that you had? Were there other business ideas that you tried didn't quite work out? What was that kind of? And how soon after doing that nine to five, you're like, oh, I need to start a business and get out of here. I think I'm like one of the only founders of like a reusable container concept that has a background in wear washing. It's like very specific. Like I was a regional director for sales of commercial dishwashers and industrial cleaning solutions. And so my clients were food service establishments. And I was in

that field for a full decade. And being in sales is essentially like an internal entrepreneur. like your fate is a lot in your hands you like you the sky's the limit you make what you earn and you get creative and how you maintain relationships how you like go out and get new clients and every day's different so that's the start and at one point i realized that okay so i know the system well enough now in the wear washing business to feel comfortable um what else is out there And because the job was so flexible and I've gotten good at it, it gave me enough room to build something on the side. And my first business was actually a tutoring center and it was a franchise and it was the best way for me to jump into entrepreneurship within a kind of turnkey type of business where they already got the business model figured out. So all you have to do is don't screw up and follow the rules.

I did that for five years and it was super rewarding. I learned about payroll. I learned about accounting. I learned about maintaining more than just client relationships because now you have to deal with supplier. And in that case, there's also dealing with head office. So learning a lot about like, you know, when you're in a franchise, a standardization, scaling. So that was kind of the base on which I built. And once COVID hit and the business of the wear washing got impacted, that's,

where I realized that, oh, you know what? Like, we need to pivot a little bit. So when COVID hit, it impacted the sales of the warewashing business because all the dine in were shut down. So then we had some time to think. And what came to me was if restaurants are not selling dine in food, then they're selling takeout containers with takeout food. So then we, nothing fancy at the beginning within the context of the same business. We started selling or researching takeout containers that are the standard ones. So we're looking at plastics, we're looking at paper. We're also looking at aluminum. And once we started selling that, things were well. We have revenue coming in. But then it hit me. Like our warehouse that's over

3,000 square feet just gets filled up every single week since I'm the one doing the ordering with takeout containers that are used and discarded in a very short period of time. And we're only doing this as a side gig to kind of like buff up revenue. So what's happening out there with all these packaging companies that are doing this for real. And this is just, like, it's almost like when you watch like movies and like cartoons that show the factory with a plume of like dark fume coming out and then all these boxes coming out and then they get shipped off and then there's transport and then they get warehoused and then garbage heaps somewhere in the ocean, somewhere in landfills. And at one point, I just thought if restaurants are allowed to wash and reuse

actual dishes and people don't get wigged out about, hey, that fork had been used by someone else before. Why wouldn't we have containers that are designed for transport for food on the go? So there, that's the rabbit hole 2021 November after looking up the type of products, the technology we would need, the type of wear washing facility. That's when we launched Beau. And we launched in restaurant business and eventually expanded. Wow. So, yeah, where, tell me a little bit more about where is boat available? Because I'm sure lots of people hearing this, myself included, I feel so guilty every time I order takeout and then I get like, you know, styrofoam or plastic. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I know. Like, I'm going to do what I can and look on how can I recycle or reuse

and stuff like that. But still, I know the best thing is to reuse if we can. So where is this available? And you said expansion. What's that kind of look like? We're looking at systemic change. Like our vision is not just we're a company, we're a supplier, and we're going to have like one by one these companies signing on. What we want to show the government is what if there's like an entire different stream for things that are not waste. So we already in Quebec have the system of consignment on bottled drinks. And it's been revamped in recent months where every can that you bring back to a grocery that has those return deposits, you get 10 cents back. And I'm just thinking, like, it's not that hard or complicated to layer food containers on top of that. There's a certain layer of standardization.

So as long as people recognize, oh, that container or with that logo goes into those bins and I get money back. It's not complicated. These are dishware that's just for takeout. So the strategy at the beginning was start with restaurants because it's easy to get a yes from a restaurant. Then eventually it's like, okay, well, you know, festivals, caterers, cafeterias. use a lot of these packaging for people that, let's say, students that take them from the cafeteria to class, the employees that take them from the cafeteria to their office, and it's to go, but it's to go a very short distance. And so with those, we managed to have scale in order

to get the pickups and the logistics worked out, the warewashing procedures to be efficient. And the more we work on it, the more we realize that people are not as resistant to change as you think. You start, like the first festival that we did, it was chaotic because people just expect to chuck things into these recycling or garbage bins. Yes, so you kind of have to almost intercept them forcibly. But by the second time, they remember, wait, I think these go somewhere. And you see a lot more people like looking for the return stations where they know they're supposed to go. And by the third year, we've done this, and this is this year, it's amazing how people are like, oh, like, we love this concept. We love that we're not making so much waste anymore.

And the comments are largely positive. And what we know is happening. is all these people going to different events that are not doing this? We'll mention to the organizers, hey, how come you're not doing that? Because all it is is dishware at an open festival where it gets collected, washed, and then things are not thrown out. They're just reused, just like a restaurant set of inventory.

It only takes the first people like us to have that base of stock that's able to get amortized. So in terms of business, it's also smart because these products that you make one time makes you money multiple, multiple times. The toughest is just the beginning. Yeah, and I'd say on the kind of human behavior component, yeah, I hear that a lot is like, well, people aren't going to do that.

Well, we got rid of plastic bags at the grocery stores and everywhere else, and guess what? People are bringing their own bags. So we were able to change that behavior. It's not instant. It takes time, but it's possible. And like you said, I think a lot more people are very conscious of the sustainability factor. And yeah, no one wants to throw out trash and, you know, add to the pile. want to find solutions. So I think that's amazing that this is like so important to you and

you're at the kind of forefront of like having a business and this is a non-negotiable. This is what we're all about. And yes, we can actually change a 100%. And even just thinking about, too, the festivals, there's so much waste at festivals. And festivals happen all the time with lots of people. So what a great way to kind of, you know, exemplify that we can make change and look at what we did, even though it's, you know, I'm sure it was a big task. to do the first time. I'm kind of curious, you know, along the way, were there certain points in time where you were, there was some push against you or a lot of people like, no, this is never going to work or some obstacles that maybe you didn't expect and he had to figure out

how to we overcome this. What's challenging is finding funding for our type of business. It's something that's for the benefit of society. It is a business that has a proposition that is profitable at a certain scale. The zero to one, like, is it a government's responsibility? Do we tempt VCs to put money in because it's going to flip into 10 times the amount of money in a very short time? What's challenging is actually classing us as an investment or a social mission. And being both ends up being a learning curve on just finding the right type of partnership for sure at the bottom like at the end of the day we're a business and the best way to fund a business is to generate a lot of revenue so that everything's covered it's just the zero to

one because it's a very slow to go from your first few customers to the point where we feel the market pull now like we have partners looking for the solution and when they find us they're so happy because they were looking for an alternative but to get that branding out we don't have that marketing budget. It's literally founder and a sales team with their phones and trying to like promote, trying to take pictures and videos and socials and just working all fronts that are like a very bootstrapped startup style. But while trying to tackle a problem, that's a societal problem across the globe. This is not limited to Montreal, Quebec. This is everyone has this problem. So you're like less than, less than David in this fight against Goliath. Yeah. And I, I,

also, you know, ask this question often to women entrepreneurs because there are sometimes specific obstacles women also deal, especially when it comes to funding. There's lots of stats out there that say that, you know, women are giving the least amount of funding out there. Were there any kind of barriers you personally experienced, you know, people not taking you seriously or just, you know, why is this a little bit harder for me? I think that it's kind of like my experience growing up in a entrepreneurship household and not realizing it. Since we're women, apart from the very blatant snubs, like on occasion, the systemic, let's say, biases is harder to detect. And what I would wish for women is to not

have to question after you get a no, either from a client, an investor, that is it because I was a woman that I was not taken seriously? Or is it because they didn't like the business I And I have to tell you, it's very murky. You're like, you pitch a lot, you sell a lot. And the wish would be we don't have to question it. But sometimes it's very hard to detect because people will not tell you outright. Yeah, you're not getting that money because you're not as credible as a woman. So it's something that, you know, likely it exists hard to detect.

But, you know, what is something that you've done that no matter what, fine, we're going to just find other people? or is it leaning on other, you know, women investors, women businesses that maybe kind of understand your vision, you know, better? Well, I was just attending a conference today, and there was a panel about how it seems like women and impact have a double strike against them because already impact business is like, well, does that take away from profitability and like an investment opportunity? And already women, like you said, there's that show that we're already getting less at the piece of the pie.

So merge those together, you're like, hmm, this is borderline uninvestable. However, I feel like it's promising that there's programs that's supporting women entrepreneurs. I find it very positive that we're having this kind of conversation. There's a lot of women peer support groups that will exchange on their experiences, connect you to other powerful women who run amazing businesses, and you just support each other. everybody's rooting for each other to succeed because the more we do this, the more we get to my dream, which is for women not to question when they don't get an opportunity, whether it's

because they are women. I would love to know what was your experience like. I know you're getting some funding, then some mentorship as well. What have you kind of learned or been able to gain from it? I'm super psyched. We are super grateful because once again, going back to a bootstrap startup, there's a lot of things on our wish list. And for sure, like right now, we are talking about just optimizing so that we become more scalable. So we're no longer talking about proving whether or not the business makes sense. But it's more every little bit that makes it so that the cost economics gets reduced. The more we're competitive in this market against this wasteful way that we are consuming.

So we're very, very grateful. We were connected with a mentor and what we need help with. is on the impact side, we focused on building the business to be standalone, profitable, generating revenue. On the impact side, we want to ensure that we are following the right path. And by that, I mean just always taking in a hard look at ourselves, are our processes as optimized as possible to have the best impact? And for sure, there's a lot of compromises that have to happen because of cost because of limited resources. But then having this opportunity to work with a mentor means that we have access to people with the knowledge that we need to really analyze what we do,

how we do it, and then where we want to go. So right now it might not be the best setup, but then we can finally take some time to look at what the roadmap is like once we get to the next level. Yeah. And speaking of where you want to go, you kind of mentioned there's this plan for expansion and a lot of things that you're working towards. What is the overall vision? What is kind of the dream five, 10, 20 years from now? So we are currently, I'd say the fastest growing reuse concept in Quebec. And we have recently started having our products sold and distributed in Ontario, in Vancouver. And we also have a client in the US. And we are very excited to be able to offer a very modular solution because what we've learned is that reuse

is not one size fit all. Everybody, all our food service partners are at different points of being ready to do it. Some might say, hey, like, I like to have just the products and just see how my clients react to it and see if they bring it back, if they like it. So they might just be at the beginning where they want something that's less confining. So that's one type. There's other types sort of like, we've done reuse for like a few years now. We have our own containers, and we're looking for a tech piece in order to increase adoption or increase return rates. So we want to track things.

So we're able to offer our license our software as part of the solution that they already have, but to enhance it. And for sure, all the local players that are interested in the wear washing, reverse logistics, anything that's local or even across Canada, we have partnerships that have the installations in place to take that part that could be a like something, an obstacle for a business to say yes because they don't have space, they don't have the manpower to do it. We've completely modularized the offer so that we can go as far as we want.

If it's a sale of products, we can sell anywhere. If it's a license of technology, that can go anywhere. If it's to do with wear washing, we can look at what scale do we need to hit before that begins to make sense or what local players are available. So we're super collaborative. And so far, like, we found that, like, in every place that we've, like, gone and spoken to, like, local stakeholders, there is a drive to do this.

So super exciting. Absolutely. Now, I know I'm sure you've learned quite a bit, not just from your previous career, but also, you know, your time as an entrepreneur and running this business, especially dealing with COVID, which is always a big deal. you know, if you're able to survive, then you're able to kind of thrive out of that. What kind of advice would you give for anyone who's listening right now and is considering maybe starting their own business or they have an idea, but they aren't sure whether it's even

realistic? What are some of your best pieces of advice from your experience as an entrepreneur? Look up programs. There's a lot of resources out there that support startups at different phases. Don't go at it alone. You can get your business validated. You can have like networks. connections like get your first customer that becomes your like you're one of your flagship projects like all of these programs are out there to support entrepreneurs because it's a lonely path so I would start there and then for the next piece of advice would be make sure that you're setting things up to scale so what I'm talking about is more in terms of processes like accounting processes like an IP protection, a legal help, like all of these things. Yes, we don't have the resources to have

like maybe the most optimal solution, but for sure, like have a plan because by the time you need it, something happens, it is a lot more costly to fix some of these fundamentals than it is to get right from the get go and go for the resources that are out there to help you set these up. Yeah, no, that's great advice, especially I think when you're just starting out, you are kind of thinking small because it is small, but if the goal is to grow, you've also got to have a plan for that, even if it feels like it's going to be several years away. You never know. Something could happen. The demand is all of a sudden there. You need to be able to meet that demand, right? And so, and I guess the other thing that I learned from you as well is being flexible in what your

offerings are. So you had like one offering and then some customers like, we want something a bit different and customized. Can you do that? And being able to say, yes, we could do that. That's, that's going to help you reach more customers. A hundred percent. It's a funny balance. It's between listening and adapting because you are serving a problem. And then on the other side, it's like, I think you should have a star-shaped container for my suflays. And you're like, hmm. That may not work. We'll get to that later. Yeah. We're not at that point. No. Though I'd love to see that. I'd love to see a star-shaped container. S souffle container, not just any container. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. That sounds very complicated. it's been so nice learning about you and your business and I find it just so inspiring and

exciting that this can be a really amazing company but also has a really great mission and is really about making a positive impact for future people in future generations hopefully so thank you so much for coming on the show before I let you go was there anything else that you want to share with listeners listening right now one of the biggest questions always can people change now that the system is so in place. And one of my recent examples is a foodie friend of mine who's not particularly eco-oriented and she lives in Montreal. We have a couple of like bans for single-use products that have been out like in the last little while. And she went to New York and she went to a restaurant that served her with plastic utensils and straws, which are banned

in Montreal. And apparently she turned to her friends like, is this legal? Like, are they allowed to do that? And that ban happened in March 2023. So the system is not as entrenched as people think. Like, positive change can happen. And startups are the lifeblood of innovation. Like, we're the R&D department, I like to say, of society. And whoever's out there thinking, hey, like, there's a problem I'd like to tackle. Like, that's how change starts. And it does change, even though the problem looks massive. Yeah. No, it's so funny. Actually, I feel like I've been to, maybe it was when I was out of the country and there was a plastic straw. I'm like, is this allowed? Because I was so used to not having that. And that was normalized that we don't have plastic straws. And look at that. There was such a to do about people. We're like, we can't get rid of our plastic straws. And then in many parts of the world, we got rid of them and we forgot about it. It's fine. Everything's fine. So like you said, people's behaviors absolutely can change. And sometimes it takes time for those changes to really be seen, but it's possible. And again, it can have a really big long-term positive impact. So, yeah. Well, thank you so much, Michelle, for coming on the show. It was a pleasure having you here and sharing all of your wisdom. Thanks so much. Such a pleasure. Had a lot fun. So hang in there. It's all about a small win sometimes. And that was my interview with Michelle Wong, founder of Bo. You can learn more about her company at bowpack.com. That's

B-O-P-A-Q.com. And follow her company on Instagram. and Facebook at BopacMTL, as well as LinkedIn. And if you've been inspired by Michelle's story and are a woman entrepreneur interested in learning more about this grant program, you can find more information at visa.ca slash grant program. A big thank you to Visa for funding this amazing grant program, supporting Canadian women entrepreneurs, and sponsoring this special series of the More Money Podcast. Thanks for listening and watching on YouTube. Until next time.

The More Money Podcast would not be possible without the amazing talents of video editor Justice Carrar and podcast producer Matt Rightout, who you can find at MRAVCanada.com.