Morning Joe - A breathtaking week of pure Trump ID

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

A breathtaking week of pure Trump ID To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

DHS agents have arrested peaceful bystanders. They have fired chemical irritants at people obeying lawful, lawful orders while exercising their First Amendment rights. They have even done so at some of our most sensitive places like Roosevelt High School here in Minneapolis. They have detained law-abiding citizens, leaving them handcuffed for hours just because of the color of their skin, or what they're wearing, or they speak English with an accent. And on January 7, 2026, a DHS agent shot and killed Renee, Nicole, good, leaving her children without a mother and her six-year-old son without either parent. This has to stop. You shot her three times, point and plank range.

two times from the side into the window from point blank range. Let's just be clear about that. And, you know, it just continues. And to let you know what happens when you have an administration that allows this sort of reckless behavior, instead of sending the message that we're going to encourage professionalism in policing, What's happening now is you're now having ice agents, and it's showing up every day. General Barry McCaffrey talked about it a couple of days ago, where these ice agents are going around to American citizens, by the way. Just like the American citizen that they shot dead at point blank range, going to American citizens saying, haven't you learned your lesson?

Didn't you learn anything from what we did a couple of days ago, referencing shooting a Minnesota mom, three times at point blank range, two times from the side through the window. It's really, it is a force out of control. And we predicted these tragedies were going to happen. We predicted because these are untrained, unprofessional, out of shape people who've been rushed to the front of the line. because they wanted to get as many ice agents out there as possible. So you have groups of ICE agents that went through proper training, but most of these people on the street,

they don't even know how to put their guns on safety. They don't even know how to protect themselves, let alone protect others. And they don't look like any law enforcement officers I've ever seen in my life. And the other day, they were threatening a guy who was just saying, hey, try to get to church. You should let these people go to church. So, again, untrained. And at times, either they're angry or afraid.

A lot of these ICE agents are being put in a very bad position where they feel like they don't know what they're doing because they don't know what they're doing. Because they didn't get proper training. They're border patrol agents. They're not trained to be in urban atmospheres. And so that fear or anger, whatever it is, they're feeling, disregulates their emotions and makes them think too quickly, act too quickly.

And that's what we've seen. And the way they're behaving in the way that we've seen play out in Minneapolis. So there's a lot to get to this morning. We just heard from Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison laying out what's been happening in Minneapolis and St. Paul after targeted ICE operations from the Trump administration. Ellison is now leading a lawsuit against the administration over the surge of federal agents there. It comes as the Justice Department appears to be trying to link the woman fatally shot by an ICE agent to activist groups. So what they're doing, instead of investigating a Minnesota mob being shot three times at point blank range and what certainly appears to be unnecessary, they're investigating the victim.

They're investigating the mother who was shot dead to see what political groups she was involved. And now, if you, if you, that sounds really screwed up to you. If that sounds backwards to you, it's exactly how it should sound. Also ahead, we're going to show you the prominent Republicans who are raising questions about the criminal investigation of Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. A probe, the Wall Street Journal editorial board is calling, quote, lawfare for dummies. monetary edition. We'll take a look at that piece. Plus, we'll preview Jack Smith's upcoming public testimony weeks after he defended his investigation into President Trump in the closed door deposition. And the wild card round of the NFL playoffs comes to an end with a blowout in

Pittsburgh in what could be the final game of Aaron Rogers' Hall of Fame career. But you know, Willie, the last pass he did throw, though. Aaron Rogers fans can always take to heart was a touchdown. Unfortunately, it was a touchdown thrown to the other team. I see. Yeah, pick six. This game was seven to six in the fourth quarter. It was a one-point game, and the final score was 30 to six.

There was a scoop and score, and then as you say, this could be, potentially, though he may not allow it to be. the last pass of Aaron Rogers' Hall of Fame NFL career, a pick six for the Houston Texans. They win 30 to 6. There were chance of fire Tomlin in the stadium. Steelers fans not happy with the Steelers' performance in the playoffs. But this is the way it ends on a pick six.

And Jonathan Lemire, that defense, which is incredible, if you haven't watched the Texans, just didn't allow the Steelers to do anything under the number one defense in the NFL. They're coming to Foxborough in a few days where the Patriots will host them. I'll also note on what may have been Aaron Rogers' last past his career.

He completely whiffed on the tackle trying to stop the guy from scoring. No, he did not. Yeah, the Steelers have lost now, I believe, seven straight playoffs games. Mike Tomlin is 500 to over 500 every single year. But there's real frustration in that fan base. They can't get further. And yeah, the Texans are going to be a challenge on Sunday. They've got a fearsome defense.

The Pat's offense didn't do all that much over the weekend. I mean, Houston's offense isn't that great either, and they may have lost their best receiver, and Nico Collins to a concussion. But Joey, you have been saying for a while now that, you know, the Patriots, there's a scrappy band of underdogs. They're lucky that they've been there at all this season.

Already a victory, no matter what happens here on Alis's gravy. Nope, no, no, not what we've been saying, what Pablo's been saying, and I know Willie agrees with this completely, with this Patriots team, with everything you guys have going for you, there is no way doing anything. Anything short of winning the Super Bowl does not add up to a catastrophe of a season for New England. You might as well have not even put on the chin strap, snapped it up in the first practice back in August.

Because Willie, I think you'd agree with me. If they don't go all the way, it's all for naught. It is a season waste. So partake in this nonsense. Well, you've got the maybe should be MVP. Probably will be Matt Stafford. Drake May, best young quarterback in the NFL. You got home field maybe if the Broncos lose.

You can't have home field all the way through. I mean, the bills are favored on the road in that game in Denver on Sunday. You have to admit, a Bill's Patriots, AFC championship game would be on. Sure. Around three, they split earlier this year. I mean, Josh Allen, we saw it again on Sunday. He's the best player in the league. So there is this sense that this might just be his year, his nemesis that chiefs are gone.

But, Joe, of all eight, you can make a case for all eight teams. And I think that, this has been a year of parody. and frankly, the quality of football not that great. But this is what we get, though. It's totally wide open. Yeah, I mean, if I were the Texans, I wouldn't want to be playing Denver in Denver. If I were Denver, I would not want to be playing the Texans defense.

You could say the same thing with the Patriots. Again, the hottest team. They are the team of destiny. There's no way anybody's going to stop them except for themselves in a most horrifying manner. If they do, in fact, end up losing. And then on the other side of that, I mean, you know, You've got, you know, the bills, the Texans.

I mean, it's just, again, it's, it's, there's too many great teams here. Anything could happen. I do want to talk really quickly, Jonathan Lemire, though. Here we are, what is it, January the 11th? 13th. January 13th. Lucky number 13. Here we are already in a short year, and you've written a piece for the Atlantic that talks

about what Donald Trump has done over the past week or so in the new year. invade Venezuela. Okay, check. Say he was going to take their oil, threaten Greenland, saying that they're going to get Greenland one way or another, overrun Minneapolis, and kill a young mother,

investigate the Fed chair and something that has drawn bipartisan rebukes. By the way, every one of these things are extraordinarily unpopular, save maybe going, in and snatching the dictator from Venezuela. But every one of these things are losers in the poll launch that grotesque and misleading website that had one lie after another lie about the thugs on January 6th that beat the hell out of law enforcement officers. The same kind of law enforcement

officers suddenly they're interested in protecting after, of course, pardoning these convicts who had been found guilty of beating the hell out of cops by a jury of their peers told the times he should have seized voting machines in 2020. Now, I want Democratic officials. I want Democratic lawyers. I want Democratic fundraisers. I want everybody in the Democratic Party to take to heart the old saying. I think Maya Angelou said it that when somebody tells you who they are, believe them. Donald Trump saying 10 months before the 2026 election, which he knows is going to go against him, which he knows may lead to another impeachment as he has said himself.

Now, if the Democrats are smart, they wouldn't do that. But he knows that. But he has said in the New York Times interview, I should have seized the voting machines. Democrats, don't act shocked. Don't act shocked. Get ready. And be prepared so it can't happen. And then, of course, saying that civil rights advancements for black people who had the shit beaten out of them for drinking out of white water fountains,

for trying to not ride in the back. of buses who had German shepherds like sicked on them for walking down the street in Birmingham, had water hoses blasting them against the wall, were unable to go to schools that our parents and grandparents were able to go to. Donald Trump looked at all of that and told the New York Times, yeah, that was bad for white people. It's been quite a week. Yeah, I wanted to make sure to highlight those two moments from the Times interview about the voting machines and about the civil rights legislation. And I'm glad you just did here as well, Joe, because there was such a flurry of news in recent days. They sort of got lost. But that is where President Trump, that's what he believes, and that's what he's potentially planning again.

And you're right. I took a look at this breathtaking start to this year. And Trump, look, he ended 2025, certainly diminished. He felt like a smaller character than he did at the start of the year. And let's be clear, his poll numbers are still very poor. that he is not a popular president right now. Republicans are still deeply worried about the midterms in November. But what we have seen, starting with that Venezuela raid, is pure Trump id, not feeling constrained on the foreign policy stage using military or threatening military intervention. Let's add, Iran and Cuba is other places where the U.S. is considering it,

or, you know, Greenland as well. And here domestically, just doubling down on all of his policies, as unpopular as they may be. trying to sort of seize control of the narrative again. Flood the zone, as he has done so often in the past, not talk about things like rising prices or Jeffrey Epstein. The list goes on. This is, Willie, this is where President Trump has...

Jonathan, yeah, go ahead, John. Hey, John, I'm sorry, and I love Willie's take on this also. They're breaking the law, by the way, every day. Pam Bondi is breaking the law every day. The DOJ is breaking the law every day. the White House is breaking the law every day. You had the Congress, the United States Congress, passed a law that required them to release all the Epstein files by the end of the year.

All of them. What do we have? Maybe 1% out right now? And they were supposed to explain the redactions? None of that has happened. None of that has happened. They are breaking the law. The Justice Department, Pam Bondi, the White House.

They're breaking the law. day. And so they're doing all of these other things. We're not talking about the fact that they're breaking the law every day by not doing what they were required under the law in releasing the Epstein files. Instead, we get this mad fury of things, flurry of things that are happening that, interestingly enough, pull the media and people on Capitol Hill away from talking about how they're violating the law day because they're still not releasing the Epstein files. Yeah, it's a great point. I talked to some people close to the president for this piece yesterday who say how relieved they are, that no one's talking about Epstein at the moment, at least for now. But that's the other lesson here

is that this president thinks Congress is unnecessary and tries to steamroll them every chance he gets, doesn't even consult them or inform them about what happened in Venezuela, for example, defies, he and his DOJ defined Congress and the law when it comes to the Epstein matter. And this is, you know, he's unchecked. That's what they feel like right now. Steve Bannon told me this is a, quote, full flex from this president. Now, there could be restraints coming from the court. Maybe Congress, Republicans will step up.

But right now he thinks if there's something he wants to do, he can simply do it. And as you say, the administration is thrilled to not be talking about Jeffrey Epstein, a core issue to their supporters. Much rather be talking about Venezuela. Minnesota or attacks on the Fed chair. And in Minnesota, the escalation continues. The state of Minnesota and the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul now suing the Trump administration over the surge of federal forces there. The lawsuit argues federal agencies, including the Department of Homeland Security, have acted unconstitutionally and unlawfully by violating the state's

sovereignty and civil rights laws. Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, who we heard from a minute ago, said yesterday that unprecedented, surge has made the community there less safe. The deployment of thousands of armed mass DHS agents to Minnesota has done our state serious harm. This is, in essence, a federal invasion of the Twin Cities and Minnesota, and it must stop. These poorly trained aggressive and armed agents of the federal state have terrorized Minnesota with widespread unlawful conduct.

They're making unconstitutional arrests. and using excessive force. DHS agents have barged into restaurants asking to access secure areas. And when asked to present a warrant, which is required by law, they respond, we don't need one. Attorney General Ellison will be our guests

coming up in the next hour here on Morning Joe. Meanwhile, on the heels of that fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE officer in Minneapolis, we're learning that federal investigators reportedly are examining any possible ties the victim may have had with activist groups. According to the New York Times, officials looking into whether Good was involved with groups that have been protesting President Trump's immigration agenda. As the Times notes, the decision by the FBI and Justice Department to scrutinize goods activities and her potential connections to local activists is in line with the White House strategy of deflecting blame for the shooting away from federal law enforcement and toward opponents they have described openly as domestic terrorists, often without providing evidence.

Join us now. MS now Justice and Intelligence reporter Ken Villanian, he and Carol Lennon, have new reporting that at least four leaders of a Justice Department unit that investigates police killings have resigned in protest after the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights. Harmeet Dillon decided not to investigate the fatal shooting of Renee. Good. Ken, good morning. So we, okay, we lost Ken briefly. We'll get his shot back up in a moment. But Ken's reporting here that there have been resignation. John, inside of DOJ over the fact that the FBI has said, we've got this. We don't need state and local officials to look into this in Minnesota, which would be protocol. And by the way, Department of Justice is Civil Rights Division. Have a seat. We'll take it from here.

And what they're doing, according to the New York Times, first and foremost, is seeing if they can find anything on the victim of the shooting. Yeah, legal experts told us last week, just how unorthodox this is, the feds would come in, seize control, cut out, state. and local officials. We've heard Governor Wallace and others there in Minnesota howl with protest, but the feds are going to do what they're going to do. And this is also, of course, put this in context of how Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Cash Patel have remade the FBI and the Department of Justice purged so many career officials. They felt were insufficiently loyal

to President Trump, those who may have been appointed by President Biden or President Obama before him and trying to stock it with loyalists. And we have seen there have been still some members, They're at DOJ and the FBI doing good work and here raising objections to what is being done. And when they're ignored, they resign. And Joe, it's not just, of course, you know, a travesty in terms of the investigation here. It looks spending more time talking about the victim than the man who fired three shots point blank. But let's put in the context of also an attorney general, per the Wall Street Journal, who feels that she's, you know, I've fallen out of favor with President Trump, Jerome Powell, and now this, doing his bidding.

Well, and the problem is also this. And it's the same thing with his lawfare, his clumsy lawfare efforts, where he's ordering his attorney general to go after his political enemies. Here, you have Kristine Ome, immediately after the shooting before she had any information, say one false thing after another false thing, after another false thing about Renee Good, about the setting about everything that happened there. So, so any judge is going to look at this. If, if, if the family or somebody finds standing to get in court, any judge is going to look at this and go, wait to say, they aren't able to do an investigation here in any meaningful way, and they're not able to because they're so biased. And again, it's just like Donald Trump telling Pam Bondi, go after my political enemies.

Here you have Christy Noem saying minutes after the shooting, oh, well, you know, she's a domestic terrorist. Without any investigation, I'll say it again, Tom Holman was the only guy that said what you're supposed to do, which is, I'm not going to make a judgment based on tapes. Let's have an investigation. We'll take it from there. So we have Jim Van de High with us of Axis, and I want to humor for a moment, the stupidity that came out of Secretary Nome's. mouth. And let's say she robbed a bank the day before. I still don't understand. And I think a lot of

people are asking why anybody deserves to be shot in the face at point blank range. Yeah, there's a lot of people inside the White House that are close to the president that are really worried about this and just worried about this crackdown on immigration in general. Obviously right now, Stephen Miller and others are carrying the day. But if you step back, And you think about the top 100 problems facing the country. The idea that some people are here illegally and working at Target at Minneapolis doesn't strike most people as one that would crack that list. And then they look at the polling and that polling's been shared with the president and his political team. Every day it's getting worse in terms of what people think of the immigration policy.

And they think about this idea of sending U.S. troops or government officials or government people working for the government. people working for the government into these cities, into democratic cities, and then having this level of violence, this level of chaos, most people are smart enough to say, you know what, this doesn't smell right. And not just not smell right, as you guys have been pointing out the last two days, I think quite vividly, there's real legal issues here and real legal issues that are being silenced. I'm not aware of the four people that you guys are talking about in your reporting that stepped aside. But I'm not surprised because if you think about how these investigations typically play out, number one, you don't rush to judgment. Number two, you figure out what the hell happened and did somebody do something inappropriately. That's what law enforcement's been doing forever.

There's a lot written about this into code, both at the city, state, and also at the national level, in terms of what you're supposed to do when you meet somebody who's hostile in a car but unarmed. And there's procedures on how to handle that. And Joe keeps hitting this idea of people. being improperly or inferiorly trained to do these jobs. That actually is true. They've had to beef up ice very quickly and they've had to rush the process. When you rush a process, you end up in some cases with real sloppy implementation and

people who aren't trained in extraordinarily tense situations. I mean, car and people happen in protests happening. That's tough stuff. That's why people go through training. It's why they have expertise. Yeah. A guy stepping in front of the car holding his cell phone and a gun in his hands. Fumbling between the two. Fumbling around between the two, doing so many things in

just that video that you would never see somebody for the NYPD do. You would never see somebody in other major police departments. You know, we see how law enforcement officers are trained correctly and how they're supposed to act, whether we're in New York or whether we're in other major metropolitan cities. We see these clowns on TV with improper training, and we understand they're doing everything wrong. They're doing nothing the way the NYPD would do it, the way other professional police agencies would do it. And, you know, Willie, the other thing is that why Donald Trump's numbers are going down, and it's Christine Oams agency that's causing it, as it pertains to immigration enforcement is because she immediately calls Renee Good a domestic terrorist.

Video comes out of Renee Good smiling seconds before she is shot and killed three times at point-blank range. And is she screaming? Is she yelling up with resistance down with eyes? No. She smiles and she gently says to him, Hey, dude, I'm not mad at you. With both of her hands out of the car. With both of her hands. So she's absolutely not a threat. Both of her hands are visible. And she's saying peacefully, I'm not mad at you.

The other woman, her wife, who was on the other side of the car, mocked the ice agent a little bit. So our DHS, our government is calling, is labeling domestic terrorismists, these two little ladies in a Honda pilot, hands out saying, I'm not mad at you, mocking the ice agent a little bit, have another sandwich. That is scary to them?

I mean, it doesn't justify the shooting. And Willie, again, the political point to this, forget the human tragedy for just one minute because I don't think Donald Trump cares about the human tragedy here. Look at the political point of this. There are a lot of Americans.

There are a lot of conservatives. who have children who may be moderates, who may be liberals, who may find themselves in the middle of protests that parents may not want them to be in. It's just like whenever we talk about the issue of LBGTQ issues, a lot of conservative parents have family members, our loved ones who, again, and for reasons they don't understand, are members of the LBGTQ community. And even though they don't understand everything about it,

they love them. And so watching this young woman, this young mother shot to death at point blank range, when the officer was at the side of the independence, and yes, two Republicans. Not the most intense magabase, but right there, you look at him, will he's shooting?

and the side and here are his feet to the side front of the car and shot one to the side two and shot three. I'm sorry, it's point blank range. It looks like it's added her head and it looks execution style. That scares the hell out of a lot of Americans, Willie. And it's not just, you don't have to be in the NYPD to understand that. We've had Commissioner Bratton on who ran the NYPD. He said the same thing. I talked to a small town police officer. Hey, what do you think looking at this? He said, they're getting some people we deal with this. They're talking trash. She's rolling away slowly. If you believe she's committed a crime, she's pulling away. You're getting your car and follow her and pull her over. In the case of what we saw in Minnesota,

there are agents all over the place. You call ahead. You pull her over a couple of blocks. There's no scenario in which your gun is drawn and fired at point blank range into the window. And I think for most Americans, not all, because some people, I understand, are captured by politics. No one looked at that video of Renee Good saying, I'm not mad at you. And so a domestic terrorist, as Christy Noem called her. She's since been downgraded by the president to a, quote, professional agitator. No evidence of that. But even if she is, to Mika's point, is that grounds to be shot in the face for being a professional agitator at a protest.

We have connected now with Ken Delanian. Let's bring him in. He's MS Now's Justice and Intelligence reporter. So, Ken, let's dig into your reporting. We mentioned it a little bit, at least four leaders of a Justice Department unit that investigates exactly what we're watching right now, exactly what we've been talking about for almost a week now, have stepped down because that division's chief decided DOJ was not going to investigate this. What more can you tell us?

Yeah, good morning, Willie. Good morning, guys. This is really two stories colliding here. This horrific shooting and all the circumstances that you're describing, which have raised so many questions, and the way in which the Trump administration has transformed the Department of Justice, including the Civil Rights Division. So three days ago, it was made clear to the folks of the Civil Rights Division, whose job is to investigate controversial police uses of force around the country. They were told they're not going to be involved in this investigation. And for the leaders of the criminal division of that, section. This was the last straw. Some of them had been considering resigning anyway because of all the other things that they are not being allowed to do in the civil rights division. But this was essentially a mass resignation in protest, at least four, maybe six of the top leadership of the criminal section in the civil rights division resigned because they are not being allowed to investigate this. And that doesn't mean they think this officer is definitely guilty. You guys have made the very strong case for why there are so many questions here. There are other people in good faith who say

that an officer may have had a reasonable fear for his life, and that would be what he would argue in front of a jury. The point is that in this country, when there's excessive or potential excessive use of police force, the Justice Department is the agency that we rely on. Investigate this. And this in Washington, they don't investigate every police shooting, but they generally, when there's a controversial one that garners national this,

one of their attorneys will fly out to the scene and immediately start gathering evidence. in coordination with the U.S. Attorney's Office and the FBI, and that is not happening here, and that is a huge problem for those people, and that's why they're leaving. And, of course, the larger context is that the FBI has blocked local officials from participating investigation. And as you said, the FBI is now asking questions about the victim and potential ties and potentially labeling this victim a domestic terrorist. So nothing is happening the way it normally does.

And by the way, in the first Trump administration, these people have. investigated police shootings and use of force. And of course, during the Biden administration, the Tyree Nichols situation, Brana Taylor, these folks were involved in those investigations. They helped prosecute officers who committed excessive force. And they are resigning in protest because they're not being allowed to do that, guys. All right, Dennis now, Justice and Intelligence reporter, Ken Delaney, thank you so much. Amici, you know, it always cuts different ways. You never know how it's going to cut. I remember back during Ferguson. There was that lie that was spread around, and one that I called out was called a bigot for months.

The lie that the victim had gotten out and said, hands up, don't shoot. And that took on this great national attention. And the Obama administration investigated, and what did Eric Holder find out? It took about a year. But a year later, he said, that never happened. That was a lie. No evidence of that ever happening. So people thought the Justice Department was going to come down on the side,

Against the police officers, no. They actually cleared their name. So if the Trump administration would actually not try to rig this and let the Justice Department do its job, we don't know how this would turn out. Because, as Tom Holman said, you have to have the investigation first. They're not doing that here.

We have a lot to get to this morning. Still ahead on morning, Joe, the Justice Department's new investigation into Fed Chair, Jerome Powell, drawing backlash, including from some. Republicans will read from the Wall Street Journal's editorial board's new piece entitled Lawfare for Dummies Monetary Edition. Plus, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, suing Defense Secretary Pete Heggseth.

We'll run through the details of that legal fight. You're watching, Morning Joe. We'll be right back. 37 past the hour, live look at Capitol Hill as the sun has yet to come up over Washington, D.C. Republicans appear divided after the Justice Department launched an investigation into Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. While some members of the GOP have remained silent, others have spoken out following Powell's announcement about the investigation into him and the renovation of the Fed's Washington headquarters. That includes Republican Senators Tom Tillis of North Carolina and John Kennedy of Louisiana, both members of the Senate Banking, Those two will play a role as well in the confirmation of the next Fed chair once Powell's term ends in May.

Do you think the White House is trying to stop the independence of the Fed? I'm thinking somebody at DOJ. I mean, the president said he wasn't in the mix. Another example of an amateur hour as far as I'm concerned. Should they drop the investigation? I'm not going to get into that. What I'm going to do is drop any consideration for any board confirmation until it's done. I know Chairman Powell very well. I will be stunned. I will be shocked if he has done anything wrong. I understand that some folks have gone on television and have accused the chairman of perjury.

This is America. You can say what you think. But a perjury allegation, particularly to the United States Congress, is a serious allegation. It's serious as four heart attacks and a stroke. And if you make an allegation, like that. My God, you better be prepared to put it to back it up.

Republican Congressman French Hill of Arkansas, the chair of the House Financial Services Committee, which has jurisdiction over the Fed, also vouched for Powell and called the investigation, quote, an unnecessary distraction. Meanwhile, AXIA, citing multiple sources, is reporting that Treasury Secretary Scott Besson is not happy with the move and told President Trump that The investigation into Powell created a mess of things and could be bad for the financial markets. And Willie, Scott Besant has surprisingly come onto Trump's side for things like the tariffs and other things that others are very critical of. But here, I think, might be a line. Yeah, this feels like a bridge too far for a lot of people, including the Wall Street Journal's editorial board, new piece this morning,

Lawfare for Dummies, Monetary Edition. The journal writes this. In the annals of political lawfare, there's dumb, and then there's the criminal subpoena federal prosecutors delivered Friday to Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. President Trump would do himself in the country a big favor by firing those responsible for this fiasco. Mr. Trump said this weekend he didn't know about the subpoena, which would be the first time he hasn't been involved with DOJ decisions regarding his opponents. He has long signaled his dislike for Mr. Powell. This episode smacks of loyal underlings trying to curry favor with the president by doing what they think he would want. Whatever you think about Mr. Powell or central bank independence, the way to change the Fed's legal status is through legislation, not a criminal prosecution of dubious merit. Jim Van DeHy, that's the Wall Street Journal, reflecting the views of many conservatives, of many Republicans, and those now speaking on the record, which we don't see a lot of people openly crossing the Trump administration on this.

This indictment, excuse me, this subpoena led by Janine Piro, who's the U.S. attorney in Washington, the former TV judge installed by this administration. Where does this end? And does it end soon because of all the things laid out there by the journal? I mean, almost every Republican you talk to you say it looks not only retaliatory and punitive, it looks stupid, right? Like the idea that any government entity would have an overrun on the cost of a building, if that were a crime, you'd have almost no government operating.

They almost always run over. And in this case, I think the Fed pays for it out of its own budget. And there's no Republican that I've been able to find who thinks that Powell knowingly misled Congress about the cost of a project of a new building that will be completed largely after he's out of office. So it just doesn't make any sense to most Republicans. Now, Trump says he didn't know anything about it. It does smack of one of those things where a bunch of AIDS thought they'd be really clever and please the boss by teeing up an investigation of Powell. But even if Trump doesn't know

anything about it, it's still the buck stops with him. He's the one who's created this environment where he's got all of these staff, all of these agency officials who want to please him through these retaliatory gestures. And that's all we've been talking about today is retaliation. He's in Minnesota because of retaliation. If it weren't a democratic state, if the vice presidential nominee hadn't been from Minnesota, if it wasn't a Democratic city, there's no chance in hell that you would have ice going there. Same reason they're in California. Same reason he wanted him in New York.

If you look at almost every single state that he goes after, every single person that he goes after, it's not a coincidence. They tend to be critics and they tend to be Democrats. And on this one, to have the journal, to have chairman, to have senators on the record saying it's silly, just shows you. Because it's almost impossible to get people to speak truth about Trump

when they think he's doing something that they find to be idiotic. In this case, you have lots of people saying it. Yeah, and the basis of this investigation is ballooning costs to a renovation of a government building. The east wing of the White House is gone. And every time President Trump talks about the ballroom that's coming in, that price tag has gone up. So that's that. I think a degree of skepticism should be registered that President Trump wasn't aware of this investigation.

Because, Willie, we know, you know, just in the last couple of days, we've seen, as I mentioned earlier, President Trump has soured on. on Pamboni, the Attorney General, per the Wall Street Journal, because he thinks she's moving too slowly with these retribution investigations. Also, we saw the New York Times reporting yesterday that they're trying to revive the case against James Comey and Letitia James, which have faltered earlier because of prosecutorial missteps. The revenge campaign is very much still alive, Jerome Powell, the latest piece. Won't be the last time. And one group we have not heard from lately, Nika, is the lawfare crowd that was howling through four years of the Biden administration.

that every move made by the Justice Department under the Biden administration was lawfare. How often did we hear that? Now it's just happening out in the open, and that crowd appears to be silent about it. All right, coming up, the latest from Iran amid escalating anti-government protests, and President Trump doubling down on his pressure campaign against leaders there. But first, as we go to break, a look at the travelers' forecast this morning from Accuethers, Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking? Make your tranquility continues.

Your exclusive ACU of the forecast showing rising temperatures today. 47 New York City, 44 in Boston, sunshine giving away the clouds, maybe a shower in Buffalo and Detroit, but nothing that's going to slow you down. Across the south, 66 in Dallas, sunshine from Dallas, Atlanta, towards Charlotte. A couple of showers around Tampa and Miami, but we are not projecting any travel delays across the east today. To help you make the best decisions

and be more in the know, download the ACU weather app today. Welcome back, Senator Mark Kelly is suing. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. The Arizona Democrat and former Navy pilot filed the federal lawsuit following the Trump administration's

attempts to punish him after the senator reminded troops they must refuse unlawful orders. in a video posted late last year. Last week, Hegeseth announced he censured the senator over his participation in that video in a bid to demote Kelly's retirement rank

and slash his pension. The senator's lawsuit alleges that Hegseth's actions violate Kelly's First Amendment rights and the speech and debate clause of the Constitution, which protects lawmakers from prosecution, for official acts. We will be following that story. And speaking of, joining us now, co-founder of Axius, Mike and Jim Vanda High, launched Politico nearly 20 years ago. In response to a demand to deliver political news with more speed, and this morning,

they have a new piece looking at how the 24-hour news cycle now often doesn't even last 24 hours. Also with this MS Now contributor, Mike Barnacle, So Jim and Mike, I think this Kelly story is actually a great example of this, where you have all these top headlines and things that have happened. Let's look at the past week where major stories feel like quaint memories given the fire hose of news to cover. Take it, Mike. There's no doubt about it. Mike always defers me. Mike should talk.

But there's no doubt about it. You think about it 20 years ago, people would sit and think about these stories for a day and people would react to it. They would assume the story is true. And now it's hard to hold people's attention for 10 or 20 seconds. The minute there's a scoop, it kind of evaporates into the ether. I think that creates a lot of confusion in the minds of a lot of viewers and a lot of readers. I think they don't know what to believe. They don't know what actually matters.

They don't know what's durable. Right. Therefore, people become easily distracted, easily manipulated. No, and it used to be that the news cycle would start with the Today Show and it would end with the evening comics and now runs continually. So what we saw 20 years ago when we started Politico was that there was an opening for more speed, more voice to write in real time about what was happening. And this is a lesson for young people, entrepreneurs who are looking at AI. today. That the technology was there. The internet was there. But we still thought in terms of evening newscasts and morning papers. And 20 years ago, we said, know that you can in real time

change what people think and give people what they need. So, Mike, let me ask you about a very important word these days, which is trust. And Jim, I'd love to hear you on this as well. raising kids in this political media environment where they hear about a story on TikTok or somewhere else on social media. And they come to you as a parent and ask, God, did you hear this happen? And you say, no, that actually didn't happen or that's not the way it happened. So trying to get them to go to trusted places, places with editors,

places with standards, and places with good reporters. So, Mike, how have you guys, first at Politico and now at Axios worked so hard to build that trust with your audience? Yeah, every single day, it's the number one thing that we try to do at Axios. And that is be a place that you can come and know that you are going to get the best version of reality as we know it, the best version of truth as we know it at this time. The way that we talk about it is clinical, like a doctor, right? Like a doctor doesn't look at you and see a Republican diagnosis or a Democratic diagnosis, a data scientist, doesn't see blue data. or red data, they see data.

And people are hungry for that. Like, we find that as there's more slop out there on the internet and in our lives, that people love a place that they can depend on, that Axios, which means worthy in Greek, is a place that you can come, and you know that you have real human experts who have invested their careers in giving you the best approximation of the truth with the facts that we, have at this second. Jim, you two boys change the way news is delivered and devoured over the past 20 years.

And my question to you is, given the attention span of today's news-based customers, you've fed that as well quite well. But how do you maintain, and you have maintained thus far, the credibility that comes with delivering news? I just love that you call me a boy, Mike. I'll take that any day of the week. Everybody's a boy. Again, I think it's what you guys try to do.

It's try to shoot straight, be authentic, try to get to the closest approximation of the truth. Let people understand that there are truths, there are realities. And I think you guys do a great job of it on the show. I thought a lot about the 20 years. And in some ways, Morning Joe has been an essential ingredient

to both Politico and to axios, starting from the day we thought about starting this company. We've been in conversations with you, with Mika, with Joe about what's happening in this space. If you go back and look, a year from now, right after Politico started, Morning Joe started. And so there are people who care about the truth. And that's what I tell kids all the time. There's more good, high-quality information available to you for free, but you damn well better be discerning.

You better understand what's real and not real. And if you can figure out that filter, you literally can create a bionic brain. You can be so much smarter today, but you got to filter out the crap. You've got to stop doom scrolling. You've got to stop falling for nonsense. And if you can do that, you can equip yourself to figure out AI and politics in all of these things that seem scary and sometimes are scary. And another way that Morning Joe has played a vital part in this is a huge part of this media revolution is journalists as entrepreneurs, building, starting, creating. and when we started, we were cogs at the Richmond Times Dispatch or the Washington Post.

And, Mika, you came up through network TV. But now you've created a brand and a franchise that we can get 24-7. And when we left, I left Time Magazine, Jim left the Washington Post to start Politico, which was named by Jim's wife, Autumn Hannah Van der Haid, at their kitchen table. It was the beginning of what we've now seen with the whole generation of journalists who realized that they weren't the cogs, that it wasn't the institution that readers were going to trust or come for. It was the human journalists, the expertise of those people. And what a difference 20 years makes. We've all been on this road together.

Co-founders of Axi, Jim Van Dynde. And Mike Allen, thank you both very much for coming on this morning. morning. Very interesting. It's still ahead. Thanks for believing from the beginning.