Morning Joe - Blanche rescinds $1.776B so-called 'anti-weaponization' fund, Trump cancels planned Iran attack... again

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

August 3, 2026 - 6am: Blanche reversal: Acting AG ends $1.776B so-called ‘anti-weaponization’ fund and clarifies Trump tax deal  Trump says he canceled strikes on Iran (again) claims progress on outlines of an Iran deal Nancy Youssef/Johnathan Lemire piece in The Atlantic, “This May Be Trump’s Biggest Error in the Iran War” David French NYT Op-Ed: “The War That Could Swallow the World” HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior made several controversial, and often false, claims about Covid-19, vaccines and measles over the weekend. Dr. Omer Awan does some fact checking. Republican Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio calls on his former son-in-law, Republican Congressman Max Miller of Ohio, to resign following domestic abuse allegations made by Moreno’s daughter To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All I can do is ask the question. My people came to me, Dan Coates came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be. Can you rule out that Iran is behind that cyber attack? No, I think Minnesota is behind it. You know who's behind it? Minnesota, because they're grossly in conflict. I think the governor is behind it. I don't think there was an Iranian soccer attack. They like to say, oh, it was Iran. Iran should be so lucky. Iran's got bigger problems than worrying about Minnesota. That first soundbite was President Trump back in 2018 in Helsinki.

After I asked him who he believed, Russian President of Vladimir Putin, or U.S. intelligence that Russia had interfered in the 2016 presidential election. Now, as you've just heard in that second piece of sound, eight years later, the president is dismissing U.S. intelligence once again, after agency said that it was Iran who was likely responsible for these cyber attacks against Minnesota's water systems. Speaking of Iran, the president, once more, threatened large-scale strikes on that country only to, yet again, walk it back, claiming a diplomatic deal is now in the works. We will dig into the significant skepticism surrounding that claim.

Meanwhile, Todd Blanche, the president's former personal attorney, made concessions late last night that could clear his path to becoming Attorney General on a permanent basis. Plus, the Department of Justice finally admitted the truth about the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, saying it was a botched installation and not acts of vandalism that caused damage to that beloved monument. But President Trump yesterday on social media, still refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation. And also ahead, we're going to show you some of a combative interview with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., where the HHS Secretary had an

absolute meltdown over Dr. Anthony Fauci, the COVID pandemic, and he refused to take any responsibility for an ongoing measles outbreak here in the United States. We will bring you a fact check just ahead. Good morning, and welcome to Morning, Joe. It's Monday, August 3rd. As you can see, a busy, busy Monday. I'm Jonathan Lemire. Thank you for starting your day and week with us. And we've got a great group to kick it off with us. We have former White House Communications Director under President Obama, Jen Paul Mary, opinion columnist for the New York Times, David French, and U.S. national editor at the Financial Times, Ed Luce. My thanks to all of you for joining us now. So let's start with some breaking news. A lot of you waking up to this news this morning.

Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche issued an order last night. that does terminate President Trump's 1.776 so-called anti-weaponization fund, which could have compensated January 6th insurrectionists. Blanche's order also clarifies that the president's settlement with IRS for the IRS for tax audit immunity for Trump and his family members only applies to claims open at the time of the settlement and does not protect Trump or his family from future. tax filings. Republican Senators John Cornyn of Texas and Tom Tillis of North Carolina had both demanded that Blanche

put in writing that the weaponization fund was not moving forward as well as clarification on tax audit immunity before they would vote to advance his nomination for Attorney General. That vote now set for tomorrow after it was postponed last week. David French, let's start with you. we've documenting last week that this is the trouble you create, President Trump, when you target sitting Republican senators and say they should be defeated, and now their political careers come to an end, and it seems like they're willing, at least to a point, to stand up to you.

And they did that last week, and they were achieved, I guess, some sort of half measure of victory here, you know, getting in writing the guarantees about the weaponization fund against the IRS deal, which was so opposed by so many. So let's get your initial thoughts this morning about where this stands. Well, I'm glad you used the words to a point because this is some resistance. Obviously, I'd rather the weaponization fund go away. We would like to see this agreement in the absence of anything else.

But again, in the absence of anything else, this is the best you can do. Because the real problem with Todd Blanche, the weaponization fund is only part of it. It's really only a small part of it. I mean, this is a person who has been the president's hatchet man on his political vengeance toward. This is a person who has allowed the president to use the Department of Justice as his, essentially his personal law firm as his personal weapon. And the weaponization fund is just one manifestation of that, just one. And by the way, it's not going to stop January 6th defendants from filing frivolous lawsuits or making frivolous claims and perhaps receiving settlements on a one-to-one basis. or on a basis that's outside of the scope of this imagined fund.

So this is a small thing. It's a good thing that we have a small thing, but it is so woefully incomplete. And it shows the extent that even now, even now, Trump has just a hammerlock on this Republican Senate when you've got the most alienated senators. And this is the best they're willing to do. Yeah, it is remarkable. Trump's approval rating so low. and yet he does still largely control the Republican senators. And yes, Jen, it's good to see, you know, partial revolt here, but still not much.

And now Republicans still have to. It's just more bad headlines for them. Like, you know, yes, they mitigated some of the damage here, I suppose, about the weaponization fund. And again, this unprecedented and deeply unethical IRS protections. But this is still, yet again, Trump signaling that he cares far more about his personal interests than anything about the party. Yeah, his personal interest and his family's personal financial interest. And I'm old enough to remember.

I work for Bill Clinton. Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama left the party in part because he did not get invited to a University of Alabama event at the White House, right? Like, this is, these are two United States senators who Trump endorsed their, Trump endorsed either their opponent or, you know, Tom Tillis case. Tom Tillis have been at, has, you know, been at war with Trump. and this is, and their big concession is, you know, kind of relatively meaningless, trims around the edges of the weaponization fund.

And, you know, but still, like, some pushback is good, but this is, it is, it's, I would I've been out in the country a lot. I don't feel the pull of Trump as much as you used to, but certainly in the United States Senate. And a little later in the show, we'll get into some of your recent travels. But also now, Todd Blanche, like, you know, will be installed as permanent attorney general in the days ahead. and he's made it clear he will do whatever President Trump wants him to do.

We'll have more on that later this show as well. But now we move to the latest with Iran. President Trump once again this weekend said he canceled a planned attack against that country, citing as he so often does, he claims an emerging deal. Trump posted to true social late Saturday night that the potential deal would, quote, include the immediate, complete, and total opening of the Hormuz Strait and an end to Iran's nuclear threat. Now, Iran's foreign ministry has said this morning that Tehran is not currently holding talks with the U.S.

Oh, we're doing it again. Over the course of the five-month-long war, the president has threatened to escalate attacks on Iran, only to then walk back those threats. He's done that at least nine times by our count. Trump's latest move to cancel strikes followed a phone call with Saudi's crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, MBS, who raised concerns about the U.S. potentially escalating the conflict with Tehran. That's according to the AP. Here's what President Trump told reporters last night aboard Air Force One. I was asked to by Saudi Arabia, by UAE, and by Qatar, and by Iran.

We were all set to go just about at this time right now and a massive attack. We were all set to go. But when the allies ask to call it off, you got a sort of saying, well, let's see. And the reason they ask is I think there's a deal. There's a deal on Pormoz, and then there will be a deal on the nuclear, or you might call it the denuclearization of Iran. Now what we're doing is we're talking to them in the form of a negotiation. It begins tomorrow afternoon, and we'll see if it's true.

I'd love to do that, save a lot of lives, save a lot of unnecessary power. Ed Lewis, Trump went on to say that had the attack gone ahead, it would have been the biggest since World War II. Let's do a little fact-checking here. I think we can agree that Iran's neighbors in the region don't want a return to full-out war. That part probably right. And we know that the MBS did make that call with Trump over the weekend. But the rest of it, how can we believe anything he's saying? We've been down this road so many times before where he threatens a big attack and then walks away from it. Iran calls his bluff. Trump claims negotiations are coming. And then Tehran the next day is like, no, we're not

even talking to them. Now, there are some mediators in the region who are trying to get some negotiations going again. Of course, inherently that would be a good thing. But it seems to me, this is yet another example of Trump having lost his leverage and he's really stuck with no clear way out. He is. I mean, it's really interesting that it was a call from Mohammed bin Salman, as you mentioned, Jonathan, on Saturday, that persuaded Trump to back off. Because Iran has made it very clear that it is prepared to strike the energy infrastructure and other targets in Saudi Arabia, in Qatar, in countries that really don't want to see this escalation. And Iran has been broadening the front of its, the zone of its activities, you know,

to as far away as Egypt. There was a drone attack, an attempted drone attack on a U.S. ship in Egypt. So Iran is not backing down at all. They're quite happy with escalation because they believe that ultimately this will deter Trump from pursuing this war. They're not backing down, which makes it all the more odd that Trump thinks that these kinds of threats, that this will be the biggest bombing campaign since World War II, are going to deter Iran. It's not deterrable at this point because it's reading of this. war is that the higher the cost it imposes on Trump and America's allies in the Gulf and beyond the Gulf and on the world economy, the less likely this war is to be resumed in full by Trump.

So this bluster is not working, but he keeps trying to throw spaghetti against the wall. One other point is that, you know, Israel was all locked and loaded and ready to join Trump in this. and this new attack on Iran and wasn't informed that he had decided to cut it off. There's been a real switch since the beginning of this war. Saudi Arabia is now more influential than Israel. And that's a huge deal. Absolutely a significant element there in the Middle East. For more, let's now bring in staff writer at the Atlantic covering national security

and the Defense Department, our friend Nancy Yusef. Nancy, great to see you. First, let's just start this with what's the latest we know about the situation? there in the Middle East. And is there the possibility of talks in the days ahead and is there any hope they could yield anything? I think there's always the possibility of talks. We've heard that Qatar is mediating talks between Iran, Oman, and the United States over the

future of the Strait of Hormuz. I think the challenge is what those talks yield. For all the threats and counter threats and climb down from threats, the Iranians are not signaling that they feel that they're in a weaker position. And in fact, they're saying they intend to keep supervise. the Strait of Hormuz. And meanwhile, you have the president saying that the straight must be fully open, freely and fully open. And so even on the basic terms of what these talks are supposed to achieve, there seems to be a very fundamental disagreement.

And so that's only on one of the four issues that needs to be negotiated. The Strait of Hormuz, sanctions, the future of Iranian proxies, and, of course, Iran's nuclear program. And so the supposition up until this point has been that the U.S., Iran, Amman must agree on the future of the Strait of Hormuz before they can tackle those more complex topics. And even now, after a flurry of activity of these threats and counter threats, it doesn't seem that those very fundamental questions about what needs to come out of the Strait of Hormuz part of the talks has been settled. So, Nancy, you and I have a new piece in the Atlantic. We co-wrote titled, This May be Trump's Biggest Error in the War. and I'll read a little bit of it now. The Trump administration's greatest mistake in the Iran war

may be its persistent failure to understand Tehran's priorities and motivations and how much punishment the regime is willing to absorb to prevail. The convoluted and complicated war has swung almost weekly between peace overtures and fighting. Part of the confusion may stem from the fact that Trump himself appears to be of at least two minds about how he wants to proceed. He is vacillated between backing more military actions, and giving peace talks a chance.

The U.S. cannot begin to understand its enemy if it has yet to settle on its own aims or how to achieve them. For now, there are no good options for Trump and there is no clarity as to how two sides in a widening war can find off-ramps, particularly if they continue to misinterpret each other's actions. Both sides seem to agree on one thing.

There is no end in sight to the war. And Nancy, I mean, let's just say it, Pretty smart stuff there. But let's talk about what could come next. Like, we've talked a lot about Trump has no good options. That's true. Okay, so he has bad options. Walk us through a couple of the bad options.

Like, what are the ways that he could settle to try to get out of this? So he could announce that the war is over and that he's won. The Ayatollah is dead. Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon. If they try to get a nuclear weapon, the United States will go back. to war. I'm not sure that the stock markets and others would believe it, but he could declare that and announce that he's leaving. He could also escalate strikes on Iran, and he signaled that he thinks that this is an effective way to do it during the Camp David talks. He said that he thinks that

they'll reach a point where Iran can't take it anymore. The idea being that you do just enough strikes to sort of tip the balance out of the regime control and lead to its collapse. But of course, the question becomes what happens if that doesn't work and how does Iran retaliate? And by the way, those retaliations will demand the United States go through its dwindling supply of munitions and interceptors. And so there's a risk associated with that. Or he could go back to the negotiation table, as he's signaled that he's been willing to do. But because the Iranians are not backing down, they are not acting like a nation that has come under attack, but one that thinks that it has the upper hand. To go back to those negotiations, the United States would have to make some concessions

that has so far been unwilling to make on things like the Strait of Hormuz. It might be that there's a negotiation that's reached, that the Iranians have more control of the strait than the president had wanted at the start of this war. And so that's why there aren't great options, because there are munition shortages that limit the U.S. capability militarily. The threats of strikes has cost the United States credibility at the negotiation table. And the president has in the past declared that he's won before, only to then go back to war. And we should note that this is all against the backdrop of midterm elections coming up in less than 100 days and growing on popularity with this floor. Can the president afford to restart fighting that could lead to a rise

of oil and gas prices so close to a midterm election when that issue has become a key one for voters as we approach this election season. Yeah, the midterms are approaching and gas prices rising really noticeable this weekend. You know, this is, every time this has gotten, could get worse for Trump. To this point, it has. And David French, your latest opinion piece for the New York Times is titled, The War That Could Swallow the World. And in it, you write in part this.

The only thing worse than President Trump starting an unconstitutional war is Trump losing control of that war. I've often wondered what it was. like to be alive in the summer of 1914, much less 1938 and 1939. When did people start to realize that the world was on the brink of catastrophe? Speak up too soon or too frequently, and you look ridiculous, like the chicken little of World War. Speak up too late, and you live, if you live, with bitter regret. I do not think that World War is inevitable, nor do I think it's probable. but it is now more possible than it has been at any other time since the end of the Cold War,

and the American government is led by the worst rulers in the modern history of the United States. Our future may depend, in part, on American voters deciding to give Congress a spinal transplant, but that requires us to do something that democracies have rarely, if ever done successfully. See the catastrophe coming and act decisively before a ten. terrible war swallows the world. David French, obviously an ominous warning there. We have seen signs in the recent week or two that this war could expand other countries, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, more, getting involved.

Tell us more as to why you think that might just be the beginning and that could expand much further in a much more disastrous fashion. Well, we'll consider this. When I said at the very beginning, Trump has lost control of this war. I don't think that when he walked to. into it, expected it would be spreading across the region the way that it has. He's said as much. I don't think that this is what he wants, to have the Houthis have entered the conflict to begin to try to control the Red Sea. Already in the region is expanded beyond Trump's control

and beyond Trump's reach. And then you have to see these other really ominous developments. You've had a Ukrainian strike on an Iranian boat that Ukraine claims was transporting weapons and other related war material between Iran and Russia. You've had information and evidence that Russia is helping Iran target U.S. bases, making Iranian strikes more comprehensive. At the same time, Russia continues to be undeterred, even though it's taking massive battlefield losses. You recently had a Russian missile landing in a Polish field, which this is, there have been drones that have crossed into Poland, first missile from Russia that we know of that's crossed into Polish airspace impacting in Poland. And just again and again and again, you're seeing China supply

missiles to Iran reportedly. This war is not in his control. And right now, every combatant in every one of the major world conflicts is escalating. And so this is a, this is a situation. I wanted people to begin to try to move their eyes just from focusing in on the in and outs of each ceasefire or false ceasefire or each deal or each fake. deal and instead take a bigger, broader view. These two conflicts, to some degree, are merging and they're expanding. And this is extraordinarily dangerous in which of our world leaders, which of our world leaders is serious about trying to reach a resolution. I don't see anyone quite yet. Nancy, let's turn now to another piece, new piece you have for the Atlantic,

headlined a tragedy in Iran might persuade Hengseth to change course, an important story. What more can you tell us about it? Yeah, thank you. That's a story. Misty Ryan and I wrote together about an effort in the Defense Department to bring back specialists to command centers that really ask the question, what are the impact of future operations on civilian casualties? This was something that was born out of the Iraq War and the war in Afghanistan, in which there was a concerted effort to make sure that there was some of the impact. at the table when these decisions were being made that really asked the question, is the United

States doing everything it can to mitigate civilian casualties? When Secretary Hexath came into office, he removed nearly all of those personnel as part of his campaign to bring back lethality and bemoan what he called the stupid wars of rules of engagement. But as you saw in the first day of the war, there was a strike, mistaken strike that killed 168 children in Minab, Iran. And it has become one of the most defining incidents of the war rightly. So we have yet to see the United States formally apologized for it or explained how it happened. And I think because of it, it has come to really define how many think about the U.S. actions in Iran. And so that has created a space for commanders say we would like to bring those civilian experts back to the table.

Now, even if they are back to the table, that by itself doesn't necessarily change the tone and tenor that the secretary has brought to the building. If it's just personnel brought back, that's not enough. What also needs to happen, commanders tell us, is a change in tone from the secretary himself in which the department is working to mitigate civilian casualties, not just rhetorically, but also in its actions. And so that is part of a discussion that's happened. There's no decision been made. But I think it really speaks to commanders who see the value of having those experts. They're not just for their own benefit, but for how their military actions really shape the strategic outcomes that they're trying to achieve in these wars.

The Atlantic, Nancy Yusuf, thank you. You can check out all of her work on the magazine's website. Still ahead here on Morning Joe, we've got a lot more to get to. Republican Senator Bernie Moreno is finally weighing in on the domestic abuse allegations against his former son-in-law, GOP Congressman Max Miller. We'll show you what the senator is saying and how Congressman Miller is responding. Plus, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. recently made a number of claims that flat out contradict scientific evidence and research. We're going to bring in a medical expert who's been fact-checking those remarks.

And as we go to break, a look at the travelers forecast this morning from Acqueweathers, Bernie Raino. Bernie, how's it looking out there? Jonathan, we're battling thunderstorms along the East Coast on your Monday. Your acuity forecast, a couple of showers thunderstorms any time today in Boston and Washington, D.C., New York City, Philadelphia. You're wet this morning. Dryer air comes this afternoon. Nice day, Chicago, Indianapolis, plenty of heat in Texas.

Thunderstorms, mostly in the afternoon from Charlotte. toward Miami and there will be travel delays today along the East Coast and also in Florida. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, download the Accuether app today. Welcome back. So Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. made several controversial and often false claims about COVID-19, vaccines, and measles over the weekend during a contentious interview with CNN's Dana Bash. Many of his claims flat out contradict established scientific evidence. Join us now to do some fact-checking.

Dr. Omer O'wan, he's a practicing radiologist position in Baltimore and currently serves as a professor and vice chair of education at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. He's also a senior contributor for Forbes. We're grateful he is joining us this morning because we have a lot of fact-checking to do.

It was a pretty outrageous performance. So let's dive right into it. Doctor, thank you. Here's what Secretary Kennedy said about the death rates in the United States during the COVID pandemic. Image to our country was the lockdowns. The lockdowns that shut down 3.5 million businesses in our country with no due process, no just compensation, all of our churches closed our schools, and our children are still paying the price for that. And yet we had the worst outcome of any

country in the world. How so? We have the highest death rate from COVID of any nation. on earth. What I said was accurate. We had the highest death rate from COVID-Banning. There are other countries that had higher. Actually, not accurate. In reality, according to Johns Hopkins University of Medicine, numerous countries recorded higher cumulative per capita COVID-19 death rates in the U.S. That includes Peru, Bulgaria, and Hungary. And nine of the top 10 states with the highest death rates per capita went for Trump in the 2016 election. In 2020, eight of these states went for Trump.

Doctor, this is a blatant misrepresentation. Your thoughts. Yeah, it's a misrepresentation. It's not factually accurate. We are not even in the top 10 for highest COVID death rates. And partly because of the success of Operation Warp Speed and the vaccines that were disseminated that were life-saving. Remember that the COVID-19 vaccines saved more than a million lives

according to research. And those statements by Secretary Kennedy undermine actually the efficacy of vaccines. And he later goes on to say and says that he does not question the efficacy of other vaccines, but here he is clearly questioning the efficacy of the vaccine, particularly because he didn't understand that, you know, the United States did not have the highest COVID-19 death rate. So we'll get more to the vaccines in a moment. But first, Secretary Kennedy also placed a lot of blame on President Biden and Dr. Anthony Fauci, particularly regarding the COVID lockdowns.

He also claimed hospital ICUs were empty during the height of the pandemic, including here in New York City. Anthony Fauci was mismanaging the COVID pandemic and was doing it under the Biden administration. President Trump wanted to end the lockdowns. In fact, in Anthony Fauci's diaries, he talks about how President Trump is calling him every day trying to get them to reopen the country. Yeah, well, the lockdowns were done by governors. I mean, certainly Anthony Fauci and the president had opinions, but the lockdowns were done by governors and largely because, and largely because they were hearing from hospitals saying that their

ICUs were overrun and they needed some help while that was happening. Well, that's not true. It's just not true. It is true. You're saying it's not true. No, they were doing it because Anthony Fauci was, just telling them from the top, you need to lock down. There were ICUs that were empty all over the country, including in New York at the height. Kennedy's claim is false and frankly infuriating. In March of 2020, FEMA sent 85 refrigerated trucks to New York City to serve as tempering morgues because hospitals in the nation's largest city were at full capacity.

Hundreds of bodies had to be stored in those trucks. Additionally, the U.S. death toll from the coronavirus surpassed. $400,000 in Trump's first term, again, according to Johns Hopkins. I mean, doctor, this is such, and it's a lie, but also such an effort to shift blame and to frankly diminish the suffering and toll that these Americans who lost their lives and their families went through. Yeah, it's deeply concerning, John. I mean, you are sitting in New York City.

I'm sure you remember that ICUs were flooded in New York City, and you saw probably tents in Central Park dealing with in Trump. treating patients. And to put blame on Dr. Fauci, who was a public servant, I want to remind people that he spent decades of his life helping people like Americans and saving their lives, not just with COVID-19, but also with the infectious disease responses of things like HIV, Zika virus, and Ebola. You know, we definitely owe a lot of gratitude to individuals like him. And to put blame and to shift blame on, you know, these public health officials, you know, that not only undermines science, but also, you know, it demystifies and really overcompet.

It shifts the overcomplexity to the pandemic because it's more a result of, you know, vaccine hesitancy, you know, the polarization, the politicization of vaccines, you know, old age and people's age, socioeconomic status, health disparities. These are all reasons why a lot of people died. So decisions were not made in a vacuum and certainly it was a collaborative effort. So to pinpoint to scapegoate one individual, as has been incurring, is problematic. So Secretary Kennedy also suggested that COVID-19 vaccines were not beneficial for children. Let's take a listen.

That vaccine did more good than harm to children. Can you show me one study that shows that? I can tell you that when it comes to the vaccine, there have been studies that show that because of vaccine disinformation, disinformation, there could have been 100 to 200,000 lives in the U.S. saved. But because people didn't get the vaccine, that's why I'm not saying that it entire. You are saying nonsense. You are saying something that you cannot show me a single study. I am not saying nonsense.

You are talking what somebody told you. Excuse me. And you let me cite me the study. What study? No, what studies are you talking about? You're talking about studies that actually don't exist. Kudos to Dana there. Dr. Juan, you say there are many studies that have unequivocally demonstrated that COVID-19

vaccines decreased hospitalizations and severe illness from COVID-19 for children and adolescents. That's exactly right, John. And I think one study that's really important and relevant is one that was published in the CDC's monthly morbidity and mortality report, the very agency that Secretary Kennedy oversees as HHS secretary. that showed very clearly that those children and adolescents that took the COVID-19 vaccine has significantly decreased risk of going to the ER and going to urgent care clinics compared to those that didn't receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

And this is an important point because many people on the right and many people that are part of the MAHA movement believe that the COVID vaccine was actually very harmful for children. And this is very clear, crystal clear evidence that shows otherwise. Doctor, the secretary was also asked about measles cases hitting a 35-year high in this country under Trump's watch. Here's how Kennedy responded. Do you accept some responsibility for this measles outbreak? Absolutely not. First of all, this is an international outbreak.

So, and we're doing better at handling it than any country in the world. Mexico has 15 times the amount of measles per capita that we have. Canada has four times the amount of measles. measles. England has two times the amount of measles. Did I cause those measles outbreaks? Dr. Juan, your response? Well, it's interesting because he's sort of pushing back on his responsibility for the measles outbreak. And to some extent, he is correct in that he later goes on to say that, you know, declining vaccination rates from the pandemic contributed to the measles outbreak. And yes, that is correct. But that's not the whole story. You know, much of the measles

outbreak also is related to vaccine hesitancy and vaccine misinformation. And unfortunately, Secretary Kennedy is part of that vaccine misinformation. Let's not forget, John, that he said that the COVID-19 vaccine was the deadliest vaccine ever created. Let's not also forget that Secretary Kennedy touted vitamin A last year when the Texas outbreak was occurring and many people took vitamin A. And let's not forget that Secretary Kennedy also said this at a time when children were getting sick because they were taking too much vitamin A. So his words have consequences. He's one of the most influential people in public health in America.

And that vaccine misinformation absolutely contributed to some of the cases that we're seeing. And unfortunately, the most cases that we've seen in over three decades. I mean, you're right that the secretary is at this, the vanguard of the forefront of this anti-vaccine movement. I think a lot of people watching home. right now already to throw things at their television, but let's do one more clip. The secretary also responds to reports that President Trump is pressuring him to conduct studies for a link between autism and vaccines. Let's look at that exchange now. The Wall Street Journal reported that the president is pressuring you to conduct studies probing the link between vaccines and

autism. Is that true? Did you say probing the link? I'm just quoting the Wall Street Journal, that they, that the president wants you to go further to probe the link between autism and vaccines. He certainly does. Doctor, you point out the question surrounding autism and vaccines has been long debunked. Can you please explain? This is a settled debate. It's not even a debate, John. There are decades of research has now shown that vaccines don't cause autism. And I'm not sure why Secretary Kennedy has, you know, so fixated on this question. There's a recent study even, that when it was a Danish study actually that tracked over a million kids, over 1.2 million

children were studied here. And the conclusion was, of course, that there was no link between vaccines and autism. And, you know, this is something that, you know, it's okay to question science. And we should, of course, always look for better evidence. But decades of research has now shown that there is absolutely no link. So again, something that's been debunked. and certainly not in concordance with what the science shows. Dr. O'Meara-Wan, thank you so very much for being with us this morning. His invaluable fact-checked of RFK Jr. is available online now at Forbes. Thank you again.

Ed Luce, I mean, where to begin? I mean, this is, it's not just that he is, you know, part of arguably America's most famous political dynasty. But here he is, you know, in an extraordinary influential and powerful. powerful position, just getting on television and in an angry sort of unhinged way, lying, disputing settled fact, disputing settled medicine, and frankly saying things that aren't just, you know, incorrect about what happened in the past, but frankly are dangerous for America's health going forward.

Yeah, I mean, I am not a polite doctor, like Dr. Awan. I'm, you know, I'm a slightly less polite journalist. So, I mean, I can describe. this guy is a nut job. He is a nut job. Let's just be frank. Where he gets his information through various conspiracy theories and how he communicates it, what he's doing with his job. I mean, he's been cutting funding for MRNA vaccine research. It was the MRI vaccine that got us out, at least partly got us out of this pandemic. But the claims one after the other, I mean, it's a bit like the flooding was own thing.

It's extremely hard to fact-check so many whopping untruths in real time. I think Dana did a great job trying to do that, but it's just a sort of gusher. The person who should have been hauled up before Congress last week was not Dr. Fauci, who is clearly a sort of demon in RFK's mind. And by the way, the Fauci Diaries were supplied to Ron Paul's committee. by RFK Jr. The person who should be up before Congress answering questions, if Congress were doing its job,

is the Secretary of Health and Human Services. What are you doing to prepare for the next pandemic? What are you doing to deal with the current measles epidemic and other epidemics? None of these holding to account moments are happening. And instead we get, you know, RFK Jr. telling Dana Bash saying to her, you're not a doctor, well, he isn't a doctor either. He's a quack.

He gets his theories of the world, whether they're about, you know, autoimmune disease or Lyme disease being a product of gain of function, another falsehood he told Dana Bash in that interview. He gets his theories of the world from cranks, from conspiracists, and it claims to be an expert in medicine. And I should just mention one other thing. During COVID, the actual pandemic itself, RFK Jr. said that the vaccine had come,

had been engineered, sorry, the virus COVID-19 had been engineered to exclude Jews and Chinese. This is the kind of person we're dealing with. He shouldn't be local dog catcher, let alone Secretary of Health and Human Services. And I apologize for being so blunt. But it is what it is. We have a nut job in charge of federal public health.

You can have David Fringe. You can have both the highest death rates in the world and the lowest occupation of ICU. Not that any of the secretary's interview was coherent. But what do you think the danger is? I mean, it sort of, it was actually pretty upsetting to see the trucks that New York City. had brought in as to operate as morgues. I mean, it really brings you back to March of 2020 and that terrible. Samar, what do you think the danger is just to the, to the country to misrepresent that trauma and what actually happened there? You know, it's what we're dealing with is an

enormous amount of civic ignorance in this country. We're dealing with a wash of misinformation, a wash of conspiracy theories. He's a man who could take us from civic ignorance into civic idiocy. I mean, this is a situation where we've got somebody who's the most prominent public health official in the United States, who's, he's just spewing lunacy into the public square, just absolute lunacy into the public square. And the problem is, a lot of its constituents have sort of created this sealed off media environment where they're going to just get a nonstop avalanche of propaganda about the medical establishment, about vaccines, about the mainstream, media. And one of the tells is the way in which they just pin everything, everything on Fauci.

When, as was pointed out, as Danabash pointed out quite well, he couldn't close down anything. This was something the lockdowns, these came from governors. They had the police power. They had the authority to close down our cities, closed down our states, out of concern over the pandemic. Fauci was an advisor, and he was most critically an advisor during the first Trump administration. So this is all happening with Trump is his boss. And so they're demonizing a person who did not have independent authority. They're letting off the hook Trump himself, who it's a matter of public record. I remember when he was all over Governor Kemp of Georgia, when he didn't want Governor Kemp opening up.

We're just in the middle of a massive amount of revisionist history right now. We're in the middle of a massive amount of misinformation about public health coming from the nation's public health. authority, and we're moving towards civic idiocy on public health, at least in parts of America. It is terrifying to think how unprepared we would be if there were another pandemic arriving under this administration. Opinion columnist, The New York Times, David French, and U.S. national editor at the Financial Times, never polite at loose. Our thanks to you both for being with us this morning.

Still ahead here on morning, Joe, a lot more to get to. We're going to go digging into new polling on President Trump's approval rating. putting him in Richard Nixon Watergate territory. Jen, is that good? It's not good. Not good. That's where he is right now ahead of the midterm elections. Morning Joe, coming right back.

Welcome back. Republican Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio is calling on his former son-in-law, Republican Congressman Max Miller of Ohio, to resign following domestic abuse allegations made by Moreno's daughter, Emily. In a post on social media, Moreno said he had hoped to keep the matter private, but added, quote, Max Miller's increasingly erratic and dangerous behavior has made that impossible. The senator went on to write,

if there are any basic standards of character required to hold elected office, Max Miller fails them. He should not serve in the House of Representatives. Meanwhile, in a live stream he put up on social media, Miller went through the claims one by one, called them false, released court documents, he says exonerate him, and vowed to remain in his re-election race. Miller also responded to Moreno's post, writing, you know this isn't true.

And the only reason you are speaking out now is to hide from your own media circus. This is all political. Miller continues to deny allegations, all of them. Jen, Moreno, the senator took a while before he finally weighed in, but he did. It's significant. It's the Republican senator from the state that he is from as well as his father. And the allegations are horrendous. These are charges of abuse that Marino's daughter has. made when she and Miller were married. And, you know, it is, yeah, it seems to be beyond a

political story now. And real questions of the fitness of this guy's, of any character at all. And it's sad to me, it's sad to him to say he's concerned about his grandchildren being in the custody of this man. If he doesn't, you know, he'll have a tough reelection. If he does resign, and if he doesn't resign, if he does resign, it means the House Republicans have a one-seat majority until there's an election. Yeah. And that's clearly coloring all of this. Well, of course, stay on it in the days ahead. Coming up here on Morning Joe, the Department of Justice

drops the charges against the man. They say cut the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool. How Trump and his members of administration are responding to that decision from D.C. U.S. attorney, Gene Piro. Here's a spoiler. Trump wasn't happy. Morning, Joe, I'll be right back.