Morning Joe - Calls are growing for an independent investigation into deadly ICE shooting in Texas

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

July 10, 2026 - 6am: Calls growing for an independent investigation into deadly Texas ICE shooting Graham Platner has still not formally dropped out of Maine Senate race WSJ: Inside Story of Europe's Rupture with America To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This morning, new questions about the security of President Trump's new Quddery-gifted Air Force One. The Secret Service urged the President to depart Turkey in the older Air Force One instead of the new jet as a safety precaution amid escalating tensions with Iran. Okay, first off, how do you fly back on a different plane? Like, did they bring both Air Force Ones? Is that why there's no gas in the world anymore? because the president flies of an extra emotional support plane. Also, you know what happens

anytime they switch planes on you, okay? Trump definitely lost his luggage. He is, he's calling them like, hey, did you guys find a box? It says Epstein Files. Don't open it. Good morning, and welcome to morning, Joe. It's Friday, July 10th.

Good to have you all with us. Along with us, we have the co-host of our 8 a.m. hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, co-host of The Rest Is Politics Podcast, the BBC's Caddy Kay, contributing writer to the Atlantic. Eugene Robinson is with us this morning and managing editor at the bulwark, Sam Stein. And you know who has also has an emotional support jet, an extra emotional support jet. Katie Kay, because she's always going back.

She hangs with the Royal. She has to get to her tennis matches. She's probably after the show going to be going to center court because Great Britain's Arthur fairy is going to action. Not Brian's brother, our niece or nephew or uncle or whatever, will take the court in the semifinals match, Wimbledon. And Cady, of course, the last British man to win Wimbledon was Andy Murray back in 2016. How excited is Great Britain. And England, you've got this happening at Center Court. And then, of course, you have England tomorrow. Yeah, England tomorrow, trying to bring it home.

The question, Joe, is do we have a nation that is about to erupt into euphoria or massive collective national depression? Because our hopes are on this young man, 23-year-old who started playing tennis at the age of four, got through to the semifinals. It was a total wild card. Nobody expected him to even get this far in Wimbledon at all. He played in front of the queen, wowed the crowd. Now he goes into the semis. Then we have the lions taking on Norway. on Saturday down in Miami.

I mean, it's just, it's trauma. It's trauma for England. It's exciting and it's traumatic. We don't handle this well. We don't handle these expectations well. Caddy immediately leaping to the dark side with a Brit who grew up in Wimbledon, playing for a chance to win Wimbledon right now and looking ahead to a soccer loss. Keep hope alive, Kay.

Keep hope alive. Also point out that Arthur Ferry, 114th. That's right. That's right. 114th in the world. He's a wild card even to get into Wimbledon. I'll point out he did grow up in Wimbledon but played his college tennis at Stanford where he was a two-time All-American. So just an incredible story developing at Wimbledon this morning. And of course, you just sit back and you wonder, how did Queen Victoria's Empire get to such a state that cabbage has a better chance? of outlasting most prime ministers in Great Britain. And, you know, Lamere, that's a little harsh.

You know, there are sayings that encapsulate an entire, an entire era. In Queen Victoria's time, it was, of course, the sun never sets on the British Empire. In Caddy Kay's time, in Jackson Lamb's time, it is. that it's not the hope that kills you. It's the knowledge that it's the hope that kills you, that kills you. So, yeah, this would be a joyous day for any other country on the planet, but not Britain. They are in absolute terror. They are under their tables in a fetal position just waiting to lose.

And, you know, who knows? Who knows? maybe lightning will strike once or twice. Maybe there will be ghosts of 1966 rising back as they take on the Vikings. Who knows? But I doubt. Yeah, I can identify with that sense of fatalism. I usually tend to approach 40 events.

You prepare for the worst, and then usually that actually is what happens. But even more painful way than you expect. But yeah, no, I get it. It is a remarkable doubleheader here these next two days for England. And it will not be easy tomorrow for them to beat Norway. Eric Holland, who is, you know, the Man City star has sort of taken over this tournament in some ways, and England versus Norway. And also, let's be clear, Joe.

I don't know that anybody's beating France. Exactly. They rolled again yesterday, 2-0 against a very good Morocco team. They're the prohibitive favorites here in the World Cup. I mean, the only way they go down, Gene Robinson, is if they put up. play Argentina, and of course, then you have an absolute slew of reps working against you. So you've got the greatest player of our time, messy, plus officials like standing on each other's shoulders trying to figure out how to help Argentina through to the next day. I'm sorry,

I still have to go back to the Egypt match. I mean, for them to go to the A.R. And to disallow that goal against Egypt. I mean, that is, you know, it just shows there is, it's just, there's just always this whiff of corruption from Donald Trump's phone call to Egypt being ripped off so the game's biggest superstar can go through the next round. What corruption, FIFA? I can't, I can't imagine. I'm shocked, shocked. But no, that, in the Egypt mess, my goodness, that was the entire length of the pitch. The play with the entire length of the pitch

between the alleged foul and the goal that was disallowed. And tomorrow, at least at my house, we will be rooting on the lions. We'll be rooting for the lions. Yes. But with the knowledge,

with the knowledge that if it is a football match, what we call a soccer match, and Erling Holland is in it, Early Holland will score goals. He will score one or two goals, period. And so England must score. England cannot defend.

England must score or they will lose. Yeah, you know, I've got to say it, we've got to go on to news. But I just want to circle back, Katty, and say, though, that perhaps, and here we go, the hope, here comes the hope, here comes the hope. perhaps. I was talking to Joey Scarborough yesterday and we talked about how England's fortitude in the Mexico match

was truly remarkable. Playing at 7,000 people do not understand how extraordinarily difficult that is. So we've already seen that and the Cape Verde match. Those are two of the greatest World Cup matches I've ever seen in my life. I mean, and Britain,

Britain, I mean, it has to be proud. England has to be very proud of what they saw in Mexico City. And who knows, maybe that gets them through to the next round. Yeah, and look, we have Harry Kane, we have Jude Bellingham, we've got a strong team, our attackers are strong,

we know how to play against, I mean, Erling Harland is up against a whole load of his teammates. So they know how to play against him. They know that you've got to block the people who are sending the balls, to him as well as blocking him. You've probably got to get a very tall person up against him, defending against him.

This has been a World Cup of late goals. And so I think the thing for England is if we get to half time and we're not ahead, we haven't scored, not to get despondent, because we've seen what team after team has won matches in this World Cup in the last five, ten minutes. In the last one or two minutes, Joe. So that's what's made it such an amazing tournament. And I would like to thank the Morning Joe family for rooting for the last.

tomorrow. I know this is a family. Let's go. This is a family. I know that you're going to be with us tomorrow. Yes, it is. And the family is going to start fighting now if we don't get to news. We have so much to get to. And usually we sort of tee up all the top stories.

But Sam Sign, you actually did it yesterday for us in a post that you put out. The cycle of the Trump White House seems to have the media in following all these different narratives. You wrote, quote, casually back to war with Iran. war with Iran, casually back to violent confrontations with ice, casually back to sporadic trade war policy, casually back to demanding Greenland, and soon to be casually back to litigating the Epstein files. Where to begin? Well, I'll tell you, and Sam, since economics is the key issue in this campaign, and I talked last week, and most pollsters, you know, a lot of pollsters called me after, said, yeah, that's exactly right. The three top issues are one costs, two costs, three costs.

The Wall Street Journal editorial page this morning, their lead editorial is on how Donald Trump's tariffs are jacking up costs. And I say businesses don't know what the trade rules or tariffs are going to be in a few years or even tomorrow with Mr. Trump. This trade oscillations and border taxes are a major reason the economy hasn't performed as well during his first term and why Americans are so unhappy. That's the Wall Street Journal. That's not the nation. That's the Wall Street Journal. And so you have the Wall Street Journal saying that these tariffs are hurting the economy badly. And then you have the Iran War, which, of course, we can't stumble out of with Iran controlling the straits or the president's in a difficult position because we went in in the first place.

But still, you have this feedback loop. And as you said, next week when Todd Blanche, the guy who tried to cover up these files, according to Maggie and Jonathan's book, he was a mastermind in the situation room of trying to cover this up while JD would say, hey, let's get everything out. The president won't mind. That's going to put,

just Todd Blanche's hearings, you're going to put the Epstein Files front and center for another week. Yeah, I guess I wrote this because I was shocked at how little attention or emotion, I suppose, was happening around the fact that we were now bombing Iran again. This memorandum of understanding had lasted a couple days. And suddenly we were back at war, but no one seems to have noticed it.

It's like a sort of slow burn war. And then I looked up and then, of course, this horrible story out of Houston where this Lorenzo Oroho is killed by ICE. And I fought back to Minnesota and just this sort of visceral reaction everyone had when Renee Good and then Alex Pretti were killed. And it felt like we were just sort of casually again accepting that. the idea that this that I said just shot a man. And then, you know, of course, Trump is overseas and he's talking and he's like, I'm just going to cut off trade with Spain, just going to cut it off entirely.

And I thought back to the spring of 2025 when he would do these kind of sporadic announcements. And I'm like, that is a radical thing to say we're just going to cut off trade with a country. A holy. That should be a huge story, but we're just doing this. And then, of course, the Epstein files. And it just got me to thinking that this is not a unique observation because this is sort of the thing that underpins basically 10 years of Trumpism, which is we grow so callous to this stuff that it becomes almost accepted in our universe or at least it becomes part of our universe. And the Overton window switches so much that suddenly it just seems every day that a man is killed by a nice agent or that we cut off trade with the country or that we're just casually

bombing another country. And it just, that that is Trumpism, right? We just become. some inert to it. Well, and there's a description for that that you can lead to a conclusion, but let's focus in on what's going on in Houston. There are growing calls for an independent investigation into the fatal shooting of Lorenzo, Salgado, Oroho by ICE agencies during a traffic stop in Houston on Tuesday. The Department of Homeland Security says Salgado weaponized his vehicle and tried to run over an agent who fired himself defense.

Have we heard that before? Yeah, yeah. And it's always been a lie before. I mean, when they gunned down Renee Good through her side window, they claimed that she weaponized. It was a total lie. But that total lie spread by ICE agents, that total lie was spread by Christine Nome. That total lie was spread by right-wing media people. That lie about the shooting down or the gunning down of Renee Good through the side window,

spread by the entire MAGA ecosystem. And it was disgusting. Proved to be a lie. It proved to be a lie because they had video. And those ice agents, one of them at least out on the job. So again, just like before, surveillance video. These people are being gunned down in the streets of America. Let me say that again.

Like Sam said, I don't think we've grown numb to this. I think people in the White House have grown numb to this. you're gunning down people in the streets of America. Gunning down people in the streets of America. This is not going well. No, traumatizes and terrorizes communities. And politically, it's horrible for you. And yet you just continue.

And as we have said here from the very beginning, you will never get the numbers that you want to get. That this, this is politically not, sustainable. When you just go out and you put these random numbers out there telling I say, did you have to go out and you've got to get these numbers or else you're going to get in trouble? You won't be able to keep your job. That's not sustainable because you will never reach those numbers. You need to go to a plan B or a plan C because this ends in tragedy every time. Well, and they're ultimately here, like in these other cases in Minneapolis, it ultimately was surveillance video obtained by local station KHOU raising questions about the ICE account of what happened.

The footage shows agents in an unmarked SUV attempting to box in Salgado's van before he makes a U-turn and drives away. The SUV then makes a three-point turn and drives forward to follow the van. The shooting itself is not captured, but separate video reportedly shows no visible damage to the ICE vehicle, contradicting claims it was rammed. There is also no body cam footage of the incident. The family is demanding all evidence be released. And for an independent investigation to take place, they also say the three men who witnessed the shooting, including the victim's brother, are being pressured to sign, get this. This just sounds like a massive cover-up once again, because this is what ICE does.

Federal investigators. This is what ICE does. They lie. They continued lying after they gunned down Renee Good through the side window. They continued lying about Alex Preddy, but the video was there, and it will come out here too. The lies will undo them, and they are gunning down people. And by the way, making U-turns for ICE, in this case,

And in Renee Good's case, is that grounds for killing somebody, for gunning down somebody? Because this guy that you killed, he wasn't even who you were after. Just all the shooting into cars. So it's remarkable. Similar to Minneapolis, the evidence, the investigation, even reportedly the body, potential witnesses, all being swept away. I mean, if they're trying to deport witnesses after immediately saying that this man was trying to ram them with this car. They're wrong. I mean, that's fitting, a pathetic profile of them attempting to say what happened before anyone has any idea what happened. And in a situation where someone has shot in the street, the rush to judgment is the first sign that something is completely wrong.

Well, and Willie, we saw this again, time and time again. We saw it up in Minneapolis. We saw it with Renee Good. We saw it with Alex Pretty. Just they lied through their teeth time and time again. We don't know the facts on the ground yet because they don't want us to know the facts on the ground. They don't want us to hear what the witnesses have to say. They don't, you know, they reportedly taking that, taken them into custody and are trying to self-deport them.

And so, again, if Americans assume from past actions that they're lying through their teeth, well, they, you know, if past is prologue. they're probably right. Joe, I was reading the statements from a few months ago in the shootings and the deaths of both Renee Good and Alex Pready. You basically can cut and paste what the Department of Homeland Security said about those shootings with what they're saying here, which is that this man, Mr. Rojo, quote,

weaponized his vehicle. They haven't called him a domestic terrorist yet as they did with Alex Pretti. And of course, everything that Christy Noem, who's now gone, but everything that I said in those moments turned out to be false because we had video, because we had eyewitness accounts,

but their reflex is to lie about it. And Gene Robinson, they've lost all credibility. The minute you hear this exhalation from ICE, you can't believe it because of our experience in the last year or so. We should also point out there were no body cams that was part of one of the changes that was supposed to come about after the shooting deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Good. Where were the body cams?

They didn't have any in this incident. Mr. Oroho had lived in the United States for 35 years going to a job in construction, has three kids. And also, we should point out, they shot and were pursuing the wrong people. They thought they had surveilled a white van with someone that looked like someone they were going through. What does that mean?

That they were Latino maybe? I don't know, but we need some answers on this because they were looking for someone who was not in the van that they pulled over. And because they got it wrong, there was a confrontation, and now Mr. Oroho is dead because of it. Yeah, they pulled over a guy who looked like

They were racial profiling, which, of course, they're not supposed to do, except that's kind of okay to do now, thanks to the Supreme Court, once again. So, look, this is exactly what ISIS has done before. So, you know, it's infuriating to see people gunned down in our streets in this way. I just hope that that soon, like in five minutes, there has to be some federal judge who's going to order that witnesses and evidence be preserved, at least kept in the United States, until this is properly investigated, let alone adjudicated, because you cannot believe a single word ICE says, just not a single word, including. A and the. It's completely, they just lie. They lie. And do we accept this? As Samstein said, you know, it's just another Friday, right? We accept stormtroopers, you know, seizing and not just seizing, but killing people in the streets of one of our major cities for no reason, the wrong person. it's incomprehensible that this takes place in the United States of America that just celebrated 250 years of freedom,

but seems to really want to go back on that now. Where are all these hedge fund guys in their Maseratis that have, don't tread on me, like license plates in the state of Florida? Don't tread on me? What are you talking about? Don't tread on like, like, don't, don't borrow your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, or don't tax me at 34 or 38% instead of 30, like, what do you mean by don't tread on me? Like, isn't the time to say don't tread on me is when Americans and other people who've been here for 30, 35 years are getting gunned down in the streets by federal troops? And if I could just add for those who are taking time to understand, if you're a migrant, if you're documented, if you're undocumented, if you're gunned down in the streets of America,

it's still wrong and it's still a crime. Yeah. Okay, there's no difference. Yeah, I know you don't want to read. I know that reading sometimes makes the tips of your teeth hurt, but you should read what Antonin Scalia, the conservative legal God said about this. He said the United States Constitution doesn't just apply to U.S. citizens. The United States Constitution applies to anybody that is in the United States of America

and applies to Americans anywhere they are across the globe. So if you're sitting there thinking, well, you know, it's okay to just gun down somebody in the streets of Houston if they're not an American citizen. Yeah, yeah, well. They don't sound extremely. Well, you should really, you should really, like, read the Constitution. You should read, but I know you don't want to. I know, I know it hurts.

It hurts your head to do that. But Jonathan O'Meer, they're gunning down people in the streets of America. They gunned down U.S. citizens in the streets of Minneapolis. Gunning down a father and a guy who has been in America for over 30 years. doing all of this, despite the fact that you and I both know that a couple of months ago after Minneapolis, Trump was like, no moss, no moss, to borrow the immortal words of Roberto Duran. Like, let's stop this. And remember, they went to the Republicans and said, stop using the term mass deportation.

They understood it was a political loser. We heard about Stephen Miller being pushed to the side, because these quotes, is that were leading to these killings, that were leading to these, this abuse of American citizens on the street, don't tread on me. Federal agents treading on the rights of Americans, First Amendment rights of Americans to peacefully protest, the White House, I thought had had enough. I thought they were turning a page. I thought we had seen the end of this. I thought we were going to have body cam footage. I thought with all of the money of all of the billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars shoved down ICE's throats, I thought we had enough

money that body cam footage on every ICE agent out there for the next time, and it's fair to say as an American, the next time they killed somebody. Well, that next time has come. And there's no body footage. Body cam. Can't. No, nobody cam footage. And I want to know. No body.

And no, no, no body. And no witnesses? No evidence. They have to deport. They have to deport people that were witnesses there. And I'm sorry, but I don't think we've moved anywhere from Minneapolis. I think we're back in the same spot that made the White House freak out months ago. So what's going on inside the White House?

and why do they keep doing this? Yeah, and it's deeply un-American, all of this. Because remember, back after Minneapolis, we reported in real time that it went both ways. There was also finally some pressure from Republicans on the hill to the White House. As much as the White House was getting, you know, freaked out about this, Trump in particular, we know how responsive he is to media coverage, and particularly after there were two in Minneapolis, that second one with Mr. Prattie, he himself was very upset. how bad this was being portrayed. And the Republicans on the Hill also anxious about it.

So there was this sense we need to take down the temperature. And Secretary Nome lost her job a short time later. No question. Stephen Miller, though still powerful, lost some influence. But what we have seen, Katty, in the last few months, is a quiet restoration of some of this deportation program. We've been talking about it for a few weeks now that they started ramping up efforts. It's meant to be, it was pre-Hustin anyway, more subtle. than what we saw in Minnesota, but Miller is still telling at people

of the Department of Homeland Security, and let's be clear, he's calling the shots here, even more than the new secretary, Mark Wayne Mullen, that the officers needed to hit these quotas. And there's almost a reflexiveness to the Trump world's instinct,

when things are going badly for them politically, and they are. They always lean back, what's going to excite the base, and that they always think is immigration. In this case, mass deportations. Now, we can disagree with that because of how poorly this polls with Americans,

But that's what we're seeing here. I'll be curious to see when Congress returns on Monday, what do Republicans say then? Hey, do they say back off again or do they let the administration keep pushing? So I think Joe is right. We are back to where we were before Minneapolis, certainly to the period of last summer. And the word is going around amongst immigrant communities that you have to be careful again because there is now a new target. It's reportedly 2,000 a day.

That's down from 3,000 a day, which Stephen Miller had asked for last summer. But in the last week of June, Jonathan, 10,000 people were picked up and started to be processed for deportation. A nun going to Sunday Mass in South Texas was arrested on her way to church. She was later released, but she was still arrested on her way to church. So there does seem to be a big uptick. They're trying to keep it away from the scenes that we saw in Los Angeles, away from the scenes that we saw in Minneapolis. but then we get back to the poor training of these ICE officers.

And one of the things that interested me so much that was so dismaying to see about the case in Texas was how quickly it escalated. And that's because these people are not trained to deal with this kind of situation. They're not law enforcement people who have had months of training in de-escalating conflict situations. They are escalating conflict situations. And it's when you escalate a conflict situation that you end up with fatalities. and that's what we're seeing at these traffic stops. But there is definitely a message has gone out.

We want the targets. We want more people arrested. We want more deportations because, yes, that is what Stephen Miller wants, and that is what they believe satisfies the base. And you're so right about the training. You look at law enforcement officers in most American cities. They're masters at de-escalation. That's what they have to do time and time again.

That's with you every day. every morning, noon, and night, the middle of the night, the early morning hours. It's constantly de-escalate, de-escalate, de-escalate, de-escalate. They've had years of training and years of experience. So many of these people are not equipped for what they face. They're just not. And it's got to stop me. And I'm going to say also just politically, forget the personal horror here, the personal tragedy, politically.

I've got to believe that when Ken Paxton gets back from. celebrating the 4th of July in London, he's going to be really... I think he went to London. Oh. What's it London? I can't remember. I think he was in London on 4th of July. But when he gets back from his 4th of July holiday in London, I'm sure he's going to be

concerned that this is happening in a state where he's pulling even with Tala Rico. Because let me tell you, this is not a winning issue. And if you're sitting around people that are driving around to their Maseratis and don't tread on me, licensed. plates, you know, go into their million dollar country clubs. And they're telling you that this is an, it is an issue. It is an issue in the state of Texas. It's an issue around America. And it's an issue that's going to cost you votes. So if you have absolutely no moral problems with what happened, worry about yourself and worry about the politics about it because they suck for you and they suck for

the Republican Party. It's bad news, and it's bad news, especially, Mika, for this family that endured this tragedy and for Americans. Exactly. Still ahead on Morning, Joe, we'll have the latest from the Middle East amid an intensifying exchange of fire between the U.S. and Iran. Plus, we're digging into new reporting about Democrat Graham Platner, not planning to officially drop out of Maine Senate race, at least until Monday. What that means for the party, as Democrats look for a replacement candidates. It means the party's getting nervous. Also ahead, Democratic lawmakers have been pushing FBI Director Cash Patel to answer for his spending. But now they're not alone. One top Republican wants answers too. And as we go to break, a quick look at the Travelers forecast this

morning from Acuweathers, Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking? Mika, we end the work week. Steamy and a little stormy. Your actuar weather forecast calling for spotty thunderstorm late today in Boston, but more drenching thunderstorms. New York City, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., I-70 from St. Louis toward Pittsburgh, we'll have a thunderstorm or two. Chicago dries out today. Same old story across the southeast. Hit and miss thunderstorms this afternoon.

The heat's on in Texas. If you're doing any traveling, there's going to be delays. New York City, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Miami. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, download the Acu Weather app and enjoy the weekend. native Patrick Dempsey said he seriously considered a bid, but decided he does not want to serve in Congress. That was my only idea.

I can't believe a rich actor who's so handsome that people literally call him McDreamy doesn't want to be a senator. It seems like an awesome opportunity to make less money while also having to talk to John Fetterman about ocean fishing rights. All right, Maine, there's got to be another option. Who else you got? Democrats are already jumping into the race to replace Flattner, including Maine beer company founder Dan Cleben

and Troy Jackson, a logger who served in the state Senate. Oh, man, a beer brewer and a logger? Jesus, everyone in Maine is so rugged. Why don't they just run a lobster who does drywall? Ronnie Chang on The Daily Show last night. You're talking about the race in Maine, where Graham Plattenor still has not formally dropped out of the Senate race, despite posting this video on social media on Wednesday,

where he said he has suspended his campaign. The Democratic nominee has not, as of this morning, filed the necessary paperwork to withdraw. New reporting from Axios reveals Plattner privately told his staff he plans to leave the race officially on Monday by that 5 p.m. deadline. That's the very last day for him to do so and meet state law. If Plattener does not formally file the paperwork to end his campaign by Monday, his name will appear on the November ballot.

But the main Democratic Party is moving forward with finding his replacement, says it will hold a nominating convention with about 600 participants, 100 state committee members, and 500 delegates selected by county parties. Several candidates have announced they will run to replace Platner, including progressive favorite former state Senate president Troy Jackson. Governor Janet Mills, who suspended her Senate campaign back in April after polls, showed her trailing Platner has not commented on whether she will. run again. So Sam's died, a bunch of other names in the mix here as well. Should we read anything into

Platon or not filing the paperwork yet? Apparently, according to Axios, he's told his staff, he'll do it right at the very end, the 5 p.m. deadline on Monday. And then they'll set off this two-week scramble to have the new candidate. Yeah, cutting it close, buddy. Like maybe leave a few hours to get there. I actually looked into this because I was wondering why he would do this. I don't have an answer for why he's just not doing it today, for instance. But a staffer has said, he will do it. Now, my mind started racing, well, does he have to, you know, does he have to be there and hand the letter to the Secretary of State's office in Augusta? It turns out he can email it just to be clear. He just has to have his signature on it. So it's not like he has to hop on an Uber and get to the

state capital and drop it off in person. So I do think he will do it. And I'm not sure why he's taking this long to actually file the paperwork. As for the replacement process, I mean, look, it appears that we're going to have a lot of candidates relative to the time frame that we're dealing with here, a 600-person convention. It's going to be messy. There's just no way to not have a messy process. And my understanding is that the state party, their effort here is to just be as transparent about this as possible because everyone obviously witnessed what happened two years ago in

24 with the with what when Joe Biden dropped out of the president's race obviously this is a much smaller scale but i just want people to understand like how difficult it is for whoever uh takes over to do this they have to hire staff they have to hire a fundraising committee they have to do their own vetting they have to get a social media team in place they have to raise a boatload of money they have to call every sort of stakeholder and and power player in the state to raise that money they have to build a message. They have to build a logo. I mean, there's just so many steps that have to happen. And we're only four months out. So this is going to be chaotic. It's going to be chaotic. And Graham Platner, who already, of course, alienated so many Democrats in recent weeks,

this delay, just infuriating them further. And certainly there's big, great debate, Eugene Robinson, about what sort of candidate, how progressive should they be? How do you appeal to Platner's supporters? whoever ends up taking this nomination has a whole host of things to do. This is going to be very difficult, and a lot of people are very, very anxious. One person who's not is Susan Collins, who yet again has been handed an ability to survive. You know, she has bucked the trends before and won even when in good Democratic years. And now we're looking at a potential blue wave or at least a really good year for Democrats this fall. And Susan Collins, the ultimate survivor, suddenly has.

a chance to do so again. Well, she does or she doesn't, right? Because I've seen reports on both sides of that question. I've seen reports that, yeah, and it's logical, that this is good for Collins, that, you know, this complete mess on the Democratic side, and she just sort of cruises along, and she always squeaks by, and maybe she'll do it again. However, I've seen conflicting reports saying that, Her campaign staff was not that worried about having to run against Platner because they thought he was a flawed candidate, a fatally flawed candidate.

And in the end, Mainers would turn to her. And now she doesn't know who she's going to be running against, but it won't be somebody, presumably, with all the baggage that Plattner had. And so this could cut both ways. We'll see how it works out. It is, if this has to happen from the Democratic point of view, you know, Maine is probably not a bad place for it to happen just because it's a state with not a huge population. It's a state where people kind of get along. It's a state where people, you know, you could pull off a 600-person convention. and I think sell a candidate to the voters in the time that remains.

But we'll see. Yeah. We will. Coming up from insults to threats to sweeping tariffs, President Trump's relationship with leaders in Europe has continued to sour. Now a new piece from the Wall Street Journal is digging into Europe's rupture with America. We'll talk with the co-authors next on Morning Joe. I spoke to Germany.

I spoke to France. spoke to UK, spoke to Italy, I spoke to, I didn't speak to Spain. Spain is a wasted pause. Wait, Spain? Where did that come from? Did I miss an episode or something? Because I don't remember Spain being a character in the show,

but I guess Trump has some kind of problem with Spain? They're hopeless. Bad people, because, you know, they have everybody, else going and paying and working in Spain, in particular Spain. There are a couple of others, but in particular Spain. We don't want to do any trade business with Spain anymore, by the way. I'd like you to cut it up. Holy shit.

They're cutting trade off? Wait, are you confusing Spain with Mexico? You know, you know, Spain is white, right? They're the white people. I mean, they're tan, but they're still white people. You can't just cut off trade with Spain. I mean, how are we going to get our... What the fuck do these guys make again?

Cthedrals, croquettas, piaas? Oh, my gosh. The Wall Street Journal is out with a new two-part feature, detailing what it describes as Europe's rupture with the United States following this week's NATO summit in Turkey. The journal reports that President Trump's tariffs and his threats to take Greenland, have spurred a, quote, rebellion by top European leaders who are now drawing limits on so-called

flattery diplomacy. Reading from the piece, quote, NATO Secretary General Mark Ruta has tried hard to appease the Trump administration by flattering Trump. You saw him there saying nothing while Spain was being insulted, while promising that European countries will spend 5% of their GDP on defense-related expenditures and will continue to buy American well. weapons, whatever it takes to keep the U.S. committed to the alliance. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, by contrast, has argued that the West is undergoing a rupture. The old America, he has told European leaders, isn't coming back. And they must start building up their own defense systems and technological platforms that

don't rely on America. Joining us now, two co-authors of that piece, World Enterprise Team Chief at the Wall Street Journal Joe Parkinson and Wall Street Journal senior reporter Drew Hinshaw. Joe and Drew, thank you so much for being with us. You know, we heard some of this in the first term, Donald Trump's first term. Angela Merkel at one point said, hey, you've got to stop counting on America. We're going to have to look elsewhere. But nothing like what we've seen, especially this week, you guys talking about sort of

this flattering diplomacy going by the wayside, Georgia Maloney yesterday and throughout the week, just unloading on Donald Trump and being beloved in her home country for doing it. And of course, Prime Minister Sanchez doing the same thing. Talk about what has changed here and why European leaders now are openly being confrontational to Trump when he insults him. Well, we at the Wall Street Journal spent a few months talking to prime ministers, senior officials across Europe, intelligence officials, because we wanted to get inside the candid conversations that are really happening here in Europe. And it's true on the surface, you still see Mark Ruta, flattering the president, calling him daddy even, this kind of, it's called flattery diplomacy.

That's to keep Trump engaged in NATO. Under the surface, European governments, especially after Greenland, are starting to think that the U.S. might be evolving here from just an ally that's a bit unpredictable to one that is potentially becoming on some issues hostile, even a threat. And so they're reassessing their relationship. They're speaking extremely with a lot of mistrust. There's a lot of mistrust in this relationship. and they are re-engineering the world's most powerful military alliance

to be less overly dependent on a single country of the United States. And you mentioned just before the segment that Trump had casually sort of resurrected the idea of taking Greenland, and it really was Greenland that was the moment, the threshold moment, I think, that created a crisis between the Allies that President Macron in one of these meetings that we've managed to get access to said, there is no going back. In that meeting where the European leaders all met without phones,

they met without a written record, without a recording of the meeting so they could speak frankly, said to each other that they can no longer tolerate this, said to each other that the Belgian Prime Minister said, if this continues, it'll be like we are America's miserable slave. They spoke for five hours. They called it a therapy session. And so while that is just one meeting, it represents this threshold moment. And I think what you're seeing is this very clear, a duopoly, if you like, between the public comments at NATO where we still see the flattery and we still see the Bonhomie and what's happening in private, where the Europeans have decided that they need to make a plan to be less reliant on the United States.

Drew, that is an extraordinary scene that you all describe. We have European leaders and what they call the space egg, the safe space at the European Council where they can speak candidly. And you have Macron, as you said, there's no going back. We have to draw a line here with Greenland. and interesting that the president just a couple of days ago is talking again about the United States needing control of Greenland strategically. So, Drew, I guess the question is there's a lot of talk, there's a lot of therapy sessions

behind the scenes. How is this rupture, as Carney called it, manifesting itself in policy, economic, defense, and otherwise? Yeah. Well, Europe is spending hundreds of billions of euros, hundreds of billions of dollars, to create their own defense technology platforms that are, outside America's control. Let me give you an example. Some of European governments, when they talk to each other, their most sensitive conversations right now, as I speak to you, go through Elon Musk's satellites. The weapon systems being used in Ukraine, European weapon systems,

they rely on Starlink connections. And governments aren't, they're putting their own satellites in space. Europe is putting hundreds of satellites in space specifically so that they can have conversations that don't go through Elon Musk's systems. And so that their weapon systems, for example, aren't reliant on where Elon Musk comes down. And he's been very helpful in Ukraine, but they don't want to build an alliance. It's dependent on one person. France has ordered 2.5 million civil servants

to stop using Microsoft Office, to stop using Microsoft Teams, and to start using French or European software. Governments from Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, France again, they are creating their own messaging platform so that government officials don't send official, they don't do official business over apps like WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook's meta.

So there's a real de-Americanization, if you can call it, that's happening inside NATO. And this is very unusual because it's still an alliance that is extremely interwoven and, of course, dependent on the United States. Joe, congratulations on the piece. I read it. It reads like a kind of international spy thriller with all these leaders huddling in a room to kind of talk about the villain on the other side of the Atlantic. It's great reporting.

You talk a lot about Mark Carney and his role in the piece of trying to make Europeans feel they don't have to do this flattery game with Donald Trump anymore. What's Mark Carney's strategy? Because although Europe is spending more on defense and we're seeing the money come in, they've got problems with capacity. They've got problems with coordination. Is there also a feeling that Mark Carney has a blueprint for how the decoupling with America can work in practice? That is a great question. and I think it's really the question whether the reality is keeping up with the rhetoric.

It's one thing to say, as Mark Carney has done, this critique that since the Second World War, the alliance has been like a wheel with America as the indispensable hub and all of the allies as spokes. And in his view, the allies need to be not spokes dependent on the hub. There needs to be a new model of more integration and less dependence just on one particular ally.

It's going to be a very long road. the changes that Drew is describing are massive. They're mostly happening sort of behind closed doors, if you like. It's not something that people are talking about too openly because this is the plumbing of the alliance, the plumbing that's connected to the parties since the Second World War. But one thing is for sure that none of this has been tested before. And the other thing that's fascinating about Mark Carney's role is,

really, Mark Carney would not be prime minister if it wasn't for the 51st state comments that President Trump made at the beginning of his second term. Those comments, I think, to many people in America sounded like they were just throwaway lines or a bit glib, but to the Canadians and to the Carney administration as it was sworn in and reading the intelligence reports, it was incredibly serious, and it changed minds so that the Canadians really were trying to advocate with the Europeans

since the very, very early days of Carney's prime ministership that we should have a different strategy, we should be less reliant. It's taken some time for the Europeans to get on board, Frankly, it took Greenland, subsequent to that. It's taken Iran to convince the Europeans that perhaps Kani may have been right all along. And they're trying to flesh out this strategy as they go. Mark Carney, with the Finnish president, Alexander Stubb, actually published an op-ed in the economists yesterday

where they talk about this emerging architecture. They're thinking about it. They're talking about it to each other on signal. These guys message each other on signal without their top aides. And so it's something which is really sort of happening in real time behind the scenes. How much of this is coming from those leaders and how much from their voters? Just because Donald Trump is such an extraordinarily unpopular figure in Europe. Is there a leader in Western Europe or Canada who could afford to play the flattery role publicly the way Mark Ruta is doing, for example?

is there an elected leader who can afford to do that now and still retain his or her office? Well, from our reporting, you can see the arc that Georgia Miloni has been on in Italy. Look, Mark Ruta has one job. He's not elected right now. He's a NATO leader. He has no voter constituency. He has to please. And his one job is to keep Trump engaged with NATO. And he's going to flatter Trump and flatter Trump and do whatever it takes to keep Trump in NATO. Georgia Maloney's different. She has Italian voters. And you can see in our piece we describe how in January after Greenland, she was saying, guys, let's not overreact. You know, Trump is still reasonable. We can reason with him. After the Iran war, when fuel prices and inflation in Italy were going up, when Trump had a bit of a beef with the Pope, and subsequent to that, had some harsh comments for Maloney herself, she completely changed on that front. I think she was in a different meeting in the SpaceX, as you described, with your, in the space egg, as you described, with your. European leaders. And she was saying, look, I concede it. And from her perspective, Trump is not reasonable. And you've seen a lot of European leaders make that journey. The ones who feel validated, I think, aside from Mark Carney, are people like Macron, who've been saying for years,

we cannot have an alliance that is dependent on one country and its political shifts. We need to have something, our own systems, our own technology, our own military platforms. And that camp of leaders have been really validated, I think. So where do we go next? Where does Europe? go next on these issues because people I talk to, I'm sure same with who you talk to, say that integration is a real problem right now. I'm reminded of Benjamin Franklin, who said, you know, signing a declaration of independence, say we either hang together, or most assuredly will hang separately. And that's, you can say the same of Europe, which together is extraordinarily powerful. And yet you have nationalism,

to rise in the UK, rising in France, rising across Europe. How do they integrate? How do they integrate on defense? How do they integrate economically? How do they integrate in a way that makes Europe the second most powerful trading partner in the world? Well, I think this is another sort of untested experiment to try and completely integrate scaling their defense industrial base, trying to build AI companies that could compete with the Americans and the Chinese. I mean, we have to clarify here, they are so far behind. This is not like they are in America's slipstream. They are a long way behind.

And I think, you know, how they're going to integrate, whether they can integrate, what we're going to see here, I think Paul McCartney would probably call it a long and winding road. This is not something that's going to happen overnight. Marco Rubio has labeled, you know, the alliance of a marriage. And in every marriage there's ups and downs. I think this is something a bit more like an estrangement. No one signed the divorce papers yet. In a way, the divorce is too costly for both parties.

But if you were to extend the metaphor, then the Europeans and the Canadians are probably the spouse that feels like they're already putting a car under their name and they're already preparing for what happens afterwards. We are in uncharted territory here. And I think what will be surprising for a lot of American viewers as well is that most European leaders don't think this is exclusively a Trump phenomenon. They are preparing for this to be the new normal after the Trump administration when that comes. All right. Separated but living together.

The two-part feature is available to read online now at the Wall Street Journal, World Enterprise Team Chief at the Wall Street Journal, Joe Parkinson, and Wall Street Journal senior reporter Drew Hinshaw. Thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. It is just past the top of the hour. Two minutes past the top of the hour. Some of the top stories we're following this morning a sweeping bipartisan housing affordability bill that President Trump has so far declined to sign is set to become law late tonight. The 21st century Road to Housing Act looks to improve affordability by increasing housing supply, expanding mortgage access and curbing corporate purchases of single family homes. bill passed in June, but President Trump declined to sign it, saying he wants Congress to focus instead on his very controversial, Save America bill. It's a voter ID bill. Even without Trump's signature, the housing bill is on track to become law. The president could still veto it, but the final

version passed so widely that the legislative branch could potentially override that veto. if it happened. Democrats are calling President Trump's decision to fire the last three members of the Election Assistance Commission, a threat to election independence. The firings now leave the bipartisan agency without any commissioners and unable to perform its core functions just months before the midterms. Those functions include assisting election administration officials nationwide by certifying voting systems and maintaining the national mail voter registration form. When asked for comment about the dismissals, a White House official told Reuters, the president may remove individuals who are, quote, not totally aligned with securing elections.

Well, are rigging elections, actually. Yeah. And whistleblower accounts obtained by Democrats on the House Senate and Senate Judiciary Committees alleged that FBI director Cash Patel repeatedly demanded special perks from FBI employees during taxpayer-funded travel throughout the United States. Senator Dick Durbin and Congressman Jamie Raskin shared the claims in a letter to Patel earlier this week, questioning his experiences of a VIP snorkeling experience in Hawaii and a taxpayer-funded helicopter tour in South Asia and other reasons.

recreational activities like jet skiing. You know what they call that, The Atlantic with Jonathan Lemire? What? Tuesday. Yeah, totally Tuesday. Democrats are not alone in their concerns about Patel's use of public resources. MS Now has also viewed a letter sent to Patel by Republican Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley, demanding Patel turnover information about his flights on FBI aircraft and about the agency's

purchase of BMW vehicles, which was first reported in December. In an email to MS now, an FBI spokesman said Patel's travel has been, quote, fully consistent with the executive branch requirements and policies. And Patelus, quote, reimbursed all personal travel and expenses and is fully compliant. I think the story we did before this about the firing of the election commission is something that one might want to keep an eye on as well. Up next, we have the very latest on the war with Iran. Plus columnist David French joins us. with his new piece on why MAGA's birthright meltdown is in full effect. We'll have that when we come back.