Morning Joe - DOJ asks federal court to unseal Epstein grand jury transcripts
Episode Date: July 21, 2025Trump is reportedly frustrated at having to take the heat for Pam Bondi's handling of the Epstein files. ...
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Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, July 21st and we have a lot to
get to this morning, including President Trump officially taking legal action against the
Wall Street Journal over its reporting about a birthday letter that they say he sent to
Jeffrey Epstein. Also ahead, we're going to go through reporting on the growing concern inside the
White House about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Plus, President Trump also upset
about reporting that says a member of his cabinet is convincing him not to fire the
Fed chair. And we're going to have highlights from Scottie Scheffler's dominant and somehow dominant doesn't quite capture
what happened over four days at the British Open. Leaving him one major shy
of having a career grand slam. With us this morning we have the co-host of the
fourth hour contributing writer at the Atlantic Jonathan LaMere also President
Emeritus of the Council and Foreign Relations Richard Haas who fortunately also is our
roving golf correspondent politics bureau chief and senior columnist at
Politico Jonathan Martin and the host of way too early
Ali Vitali I gotta I mean Richard I mean this is why you get paid the big bucks.
You are of course our our our golf analysts of course self appointed.
You said I want to be your golf analyst like Roger Bennett your soccer analyst.
So this is your time man.
I tell you what Scotty Scheffler over the four rounds is dominant as anybody I've seen in the majors.
It seems every shot he made was pin high.
Every putt he made was true.
It was a remarkable round from a guy who started,
and I heard as much talking about this over the weekend as a spectacular golf,
Scottie Scheffler started by saying, I'm more than golf.
I mean, if I'm not a good husband,
if I'm not a good dad,
if I'm not a good person,
golf doesn't matter.
And I think it was his wife who said,
Scottie's a lot more than a scorecard.
Well, that means he's a lot
because his scorecard this weekend
was remarkable.
No you're right Joe and he gave
this extraordinary press
conference where he he spoke
about this is almost his
philosophy of golf and his
philosophy of life and how life
was just simply much bigger.
And you see it here the pictures
with his his his son and in a
minute with his his wife.
But he is dominating this game.
And what's so interesting is how calmly he does it. Unlike the Rory McIlroy's or the Tiger Woods who are on emotional roller coasters all the
time, he is eerily calm, eerily steady.
He's won four majors already.
It's the second one this year.
I think it's a question of when and not if he does what Rory McIlroy just did, which
is complete the career glance grand slam.
He simply needs now the, the, the U S open.
He fixed the one weakness in his game, his putting and he now, and the other,
it's interesting to listen to the other players.
They see him now at a slightly different level.
Even the Rory McIlroy is another say, gee, when we see him on the top of the scoreboard,
we know he's not going to collapse. And he just's just playing at an extraordinary extraordinary level. Yeah and you
know we love seeing we love seeing golfers who show their emotions also nothing nothing wrong
with those who do. I mean Lee Trevino was beloved because you know he was he would constantly
showing his emotions and having fun out
there and constantly talking
Scotty Scheffler just the
opposite.
And I'll tell you Jonathan
Lemire the only time he really
showed any emotions yesterday
he saved a long putt for for
for par.
He and this is what he did.
He pumped his fist twice
picked up the ball went to the next hole. Yeah. It was it was it was He and this is what he did. He pumped his fist twice picked
up the ball went to the next
hole.
Yeah it was it was it was
remarkable almost as remarkable
as Bregman Hector in Cora to let
him in the game so he could put
put the Cubs out of reach.
Yeah another emotional moment
there.
Yeah.
Briefly on on Schaeffler I mean
we will take his word for it his
wife's word for it that he's a lot more than a golfer but man he is a machine on Scheffler. I mean we will take his word for it his wife's word
for it that he's a lot more than
a golfer.
But man he is a machine on the
golf course.
It is it is remarkable.
And he is so unemotional.
Occasional fist bump aside.
And he is it's an open and
shut case.
He's head and shoulders above
the rest of the field right now
as the best golfer in the world.
Truly remarkable.
And yes Joe the Red Sox you
know as you know people
watching the show we live ups
and downs we you and I
emotional you're not calm when
it comes to.
No we are not.
Boston Red Sox and they come
out they they won 10 in a row
going into the break.
They look pretty lifeless.
The first two in Wrigley though
we should say against a very
good Cubs team and we're down
one nothing late yesterday.
Look like they're going to waste
a Garrett crochet start a brave
home run Bregman pinch hit home
run.
They get a much needed way.
Yeah very exciting and of course
J. Mart the sporting event for
you that you wait for your
round of course is the Florida
Bama Interstate mullet toss.
I'm sure the contest that that
you have you've taken part in many a time.
It's been on the calendar for a while now and I've got my arm sort of wound up for this
thing and I think I'm going to be a competitor this year. So yeah for all the folks on on
30 I watch out I'm coming. Yeah I'll tell you what you know, you think it's easy to toss a mullet.
I've done it.
It is not.
It is not.
So anyway, one of these years, we need to cover the Florida interstate mullet toss.
Now this is what they call in the business, Jay Mort, a hard turn.
Let's see if we can do it on this early Monday morning.
We're going to be filling the cheese at the out.
By the way, yesterday, what was it?
The 60th, what anniversary was it?
It was in 69, yesterday was anniversary,
60th day of the moon landing.
Yes.
Yeah, Richard 56.
Richard, you were old enough,
the only one on this panel
along with me. I was a little kid who fell asleep and woke up crying when my dad brought
in the Atlanta Journal of Constitution headlines because I just couldn't stay up long enough
to see it. But but you remember you remember the landing. What an extraordinary time in
a not so happy place in America.
Absolutely, and I remember watching it with friends on,
of course, a black and white television.
And it was just one of those moments in your life.
I mean, you kind of think about how you tell
the story of your own life.
And there's the awful things, the assassinations of 68
and so forth.
And then there were just the extraordinary things like the moon
landing. Uh, and then there was the hot number afterwards. Joe, the whole
debate about whether they got there, they garbled the one sentence he was
supposed to say when he hit the moon. Right. Right. And of course, you also
like the fact that they were hitting golf balls in zero-gravity conditions.
That connection there, thank you.
That is the connection. Now that we've made it, there we go.
Men walk on the moon. It's just extraordinary.
For a time, again, a bleak time in America, that was obviously something that almost everybody took
great pride in. All right, well, let's get to the news today.
And it involves Israel,
following Israel's strikes inside Syria last week.
One which targeted a government building
that the Trump administration is, of course,
trying to build up.
Axios is reporting on recent conversations
inside the White House regarding Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu and his government.
Long story short, Donald Trump is getting fed up.
One White House official described Netanyahu as, quote, a madman to Axios, claiming he
bombs everything all the time and that it could undermine the Trump White House's efforts
in the region. Another official pointed to the shelling of a Catholic church in Gaza last week,
saying, the feeling is that every day there's something new.
Six officials also told Axios that last week's attack in Syria,
which ended with a U.S. brokered ceasefire,
left the White House significantly more alarmed about Netanyahu
and his regional policies.
Let's bring in one of the reporters from the story.
The White House correspondent for Axios, Mark Caputo, also with us, staff writer for the
New York Times, Ronan Bergman, who has recently reported on how Netanyahu prolonged the war
in Gaza to stay in power.
Mark, let's begin with you and
quite an axiom report, something that we had been hearing about from the White
House a bit, Donald Trump getting impatient, but that impatience is
turning to anger. Tell us about it. Yeah, from what we understand, it was almost
one of those moments where Donald Trump turned on the television. He's like,
we're bombing or the Israelis are bombing Damascus.
Sort of what's going on now? That's not a direct quote,
but that was one of the senses that was conveyed to me.
And as you just read from that quote,
it seems like there's sort of something new every day.
There wasn't just the Gaza church bombing.
There wasn't just the bombing in Damascus,
but then there's been certain social policy issues. Mike Huckabee, who's the U.S. ambassador to Israel, had to write a letter essentially
threatening Israel because it was blocking visas for Christians who were coming over.
That's something Mike Huckabee used to do in his private life prior to rejoining government.
In addition to that, there was a Florida man, I'm sorry I'm going to mispronounce his last name, Saif Musalat, who was beaten
to death in the West Bank, and the United States wants answers about that. They're not
getting many answers there either. So there's just these combination of things that are
just sort of a mounting frustration. And obviously the war in Gaza is just sort of dragging on.
Trump wants to have an end to it, but it doesn't seem like it's happening yet.
No, it's certainly not. And you know, Ronan, you look, we've seen obviously since October the 7th, Netanyahu doing what the Israeli people and I think most of his allies have wanted him to do,
and that is to go after the Hamas terrorist organization, go after the network. But as the Trump administration is saying, it seems like it's
something new every day. Every day you're hearing about more Palestinians getting shot up, getting
bombed, getting killed at relief sites where they're starving and they're going for food.
You had Mark talking about the bombing of the church in Gaza. Mike Huckabee, after attending a trial for Netanyahu
earlier in the week, showed up on the West Bank
to talk to Christians who were being persecuted,
again, in the West Bank.
And that persecution is ongoing.
And then, of course, the killing of Americans.
And your reporting laid out in great detail,
what many people have been concerned about now
for a year or two.
And that is that Netanyahu knows when the shooting stops,
his coalition is likely to end as well.
And so it's one war after another war after another war, one fight after another fight after another fight.
And in the meantime, as I'm sure Richard Haas,
we lost Roan and Richard Haas,
I'm sure that you would agree that, you know,
demolishing Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran,
hurting Iran's air defenses, all great things, but there's a
lot of bad with the good, and he seems content on provoking hostilities every day.
At least that's what the Trump administration's saying right now.
Yeah, Joe, I think the distinction you draw is exactly right.
There's on one hand where Israel has quote unquote remade the Middle East, what's happened
with Iran, what's happened with Hezbollah, the military weakening of Hamas, and that's
widely applauded.
It's really been quite extraordinary.
And I think there's also, you know, there was and still is great understanding, sympathy
for Israel about October 7th.
Where I think Bibi Netanyahu has increasingly lost the United States and the Middle East,
though, is what you might call October 8th and beyond.
The continued use of military force in Gaza, where upwards of what now, 50,000, 60,000
people have been killed.
The pressure against aid shipments, humanitarian aid getting in the forcing of over
two million people. Into a tiny
sliver of territory. Now the
bombings in Syria at a time the
United States has been working
with the Saudis in order to
consolidate the power of the new
government there. The continuing
violence in the West Bank of
settlers against Palestinians
there. So what you're seeing is sympathy and even resentment the new government there, the continuing violence in the West Bank of settlers against
Palestinians there.
So what you're seeing is sympathy and even respect on one hand, but a real growing distance
and alienation on the other.
And as Ronan's important reporting showed, that a lot of this seems to be motivated less
by a strategic agenda and more by a political agenda.
Yeah, it's not just 50 or 60,000 people.
So many of these are women and children.
We have more reports in recent days
about Palestinians just trying to get food and water
and being fired upon, people on the ground,
witnesses saying something by the Israeli military.
I mean, the images coming from that enclave
are just so terribly ghastly.
And Marco Puto, we know President Trump
does react to things viscerally.
We have heard as well that he's had a hard time
with some of the images coming from Gaza.
But this is also a president who just a few weeks ago
was really celebrating his partnership
with Prime Minister Netanyahu over the strikes in Iran,
was calling on Israel to quit its criminal prosecution
in Netanyahu to abandon that long-delayed trial.
So take us a little more into your reporting here
about his frustration level.
Is there a point where even for Trump, Bibi goes too far?
And if that's the case, how could that relationship
change further?
Yeah, I don't know when that point is.
I don't think we're at that point yet.
Obviously, publicly, Donald Trump has continued to praise Netanyahu.
Privately, he's expressed concerns about what's happening.
But in the end, Donald Trump and Netanyahu have had a very long relationship.
At times it's been contentious.
There has been mistrust.
But Donald Trump also knows that October 7th was a terrorist attack, and Hamas is ultimately
to blame for it and for the taking of hostages, including some U.S. citizens at the time.
And there are still hostages.
Some remains, that is, some people are dead and the remains are held by Hamas.
Others, a few, are still alive, and they haven't been returned.
And so until Hamas kind of negotiates more in good faith, I think
Donald Trump is going to continue to stick by Netanyahu. That having been said,
if Netanyahu does what he did last week, which is to sort of start bombing
another country, in this case Syria, without giving the United States a heads
up or a say, it's going to continue to cause continuous problems. There's this
sort of delicate balancing act in the Middle East, and Netanyahu is sort of
the one who is setting the apple cart at different times in other countries. One thing I think that's
important to know is other countries in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, they're coming to
the United States, and they're pitching the U.S. saying, we can be as reliable a partner as Israel without
the drama.
And that starts to have a real effect on the ears of U.S. policymakers, including Donald
Trump.
Ron, talk about your piece and also the belief among many foreign policy analysts in America
and also many military officials and intel officials in Israel that the Gaza war militarily should
have ended a year ago.
Yeah, so together with Patrick Kingsley, Nathan Odenheim, my colleagues at the Times, we've
spoken with 110 officials.
These are from the U.S., from the Gulf, from Hamas, from Qatar, from other places, but
mainly from Israel.
And all of them have experience with Netanyahu, worked with Netanyahu, other Netanyahu in
the past, also in the present.
And the vast majority of them are saying that Netanyahu had many chances to end the war
in Gaza.
And he was on a T-junction.
He could take a right turn to end the war, to end the hostilities, to sign a very prolonged
ceasefire agreement with Hamas.
This will bring also benefit to him as a political leader.
He got as close as possible to sign reconciliation and peace agreement with the most important Arab states, Saudi Arabia.
This is something that could boost his career.
Now, and of course, it will bring back the hostages, the one most important point.
Now, it's not that he doesn't want the hostages to come back or he doesn't want to have reconciliation with Saudi Arabia.
It's just that there are things that he wants more.
Or, to be maybe more precise, there are things that he wants more. Or, to be maybe more precise, there are things that he fears more.
And the integrity of the coalition, every time, again and again, during the last year,
maybe even more than last year, when he was on that brink of agreement, on the brink of
that T-junction, he took another turn.
And the other turn was fearing the ultra right, the ultra nationalist of his coalition
that they will disassemble the coalition, they will break down the government, and he
chose their way, he preferred their way upon a much more peaceful way that will be a page
opener to a new Middle East.
You know, it sounds actually just like the just absolute reverse of what happened in
2000 after negotiations coming out of the Oslo Accords where Yasser Arafat was given
an extraordinary deal, the best deal the Palestinians had been given, as Bill and Hillary Clinton
explain all the time.
And he wouldn't do it because he feared he would lose power and possibly lose his life.
With that, Yahoo, you talk about the fact that, again, if he made this deal, if he brought peace,
even if that brought all the hostages home, you say he feared the possibility of losing his coalition and possibly even
worse.
Yeah, it's not losing his life, but one needs to bear in mind that he is under charges of
severe corruption and bribe.
And the way that he acts, it means that he believes that to fight the charges that potentially
could lead him to jail is from the seat of the prime
minister.
So for himself, the way he assesses it, he needs to be the prime minister.
He needs to be the prime minister.
He needs to have a coalition.
He needs to have a coalition the way he sees the world.
He needs to continue his alignment with the ultra-right and the ultra-nationalists and
the settlers in his government. Now, I heard before from one of my colleagues at Axios
that Hamas is not negotiating with good faith.
Now, Hamas is of course the entity
that kidnapped those people.
They are to be blamed for everything happening to them.
But just one small detail, if Netanyahu wants, there will
be a deal tomorrow morning. All the hostages are to be brought back tomorrow morning. It's
all about Netanyahu. And as we saw in January, in the previous deal, it's all about the Trump
government to put the Trump administration to put enough pressure on Netanyahu. And if
they do that, we could have a deal tomorrow morning, and all the hostages, the
live hostages and the dead hostages, the parents will have a grave to cry on.
This could happen imminently, and it's all about the Israeli prime minister to make a
call.
And whether Netanyahu actually wants those hostages home or not.
Ronan Bergman with the New York Times and Mark Caputo of Axios, thank you both for your reporting. Greatly appreciated. Jay Mark,
let's talk about obviously the relationship with Trump and Netanyahu is fraying. It's never been,
it hasn't been great since the 2020 election when Netanyahu called Biden
and congratulated him for the victory.
It's been rough then.
Also though, just behind the scenes,
they've never had a great deal of respect for Netanyahu.
They've seen him as a blowhard.
And so, yeah, Donald Trump,
just as he's getting very frustrated
with Vladimir Putin right now, the same thing is happening with Netanyahu. Where does it go from here?
And what's the through line, Joe, between Trump's frustration with Netanyahu and
Putin? It's the same thing. It's a distraction from Trump. You don't
have to imagine this. Trump will say it out out loud either to the cameras or on Twitter, truth
as he calls it.
And that is I've had this amazing first six months.
Why do you people want to talk about Jeffrey Epstein or why is Bibi still bombing a church
in Gaza?
Why won't Putin stop the war in Ukraine?
It's a distraction from me. And I think that's what drives him crazy,
Joe, is that he just doesn't want these bad images on TV because he wants to tell his story.
And whether it's going after Gaza still to no end or Putin going after orphanages in Kiev,
it's the same problem that Trump has. And so that's why Trump is never gonna stick with anybody.
It doesn't matter if it's Bibi or Putin or anybody else.
There's no long-term deal.
As I wrote last week, with Trump,
to borrow from Henry Kissinger, there's no friends,
there's no enemies, there's only Trump's interests.
And, Jonathan, also, Israel obviously has maintained a strong, strong alliance with
more conservative Americans, with Republicans, with evangelicals.
But now we're seeing Americans being killed in the West Bank.
We're seeing Catholic churches being bombed by the Israelis in Gaza.
And again, as we've talked about on this show, as Matt Bradley's reported from the West Bank,
Christian persecution continuing every day, Christians being targeted and attacked every
day by radical settlers on the West Bank.
At some point, this is going to blow up politically, it would seem to me, on a group of people
who have been Netanyahu's strongest base in America.
Yeah, the real tell to me, Joe, was Ambassador Huckabee, no stronger supporter of Israel,
certainly of the Netanyahu government, you know, in the bunker the night that they attacked
Iran, you know, pointedly writing a letter about the killing of the American in the West
Bank and or I'm sorry, in the settlement.
And look, that to me tells you something about the level of frustration.
The pope, obviously an American speaking out over the weekend about the bombing of frustration. The Pope, obviously an American, speaking out over the weekend about the bombing of
a Catholic church in Gaza.
I think that combined just with Bibi's recalcitrance, refusal to sort of stop the bombing, I think
gives Trump and gives some of his allies great frustration.
And it's a reminder to Bibi, yes, you can bring that letter for the Nobel Peace Prize
for Trump, but 10 days later, if you're creating bad headlines for Donald Trump, that paper isn't
worth what it's written on.
Yeah, expanding war into Syria and, as you said, bombing a Catholic church in Gaza.
And then Mike Huckabee also going to see Christian leaders in the West Bank, whose village is getting attacked,
whose property is getting destroyed,
whose houses reportedly getting set on fire.
Yeah, not a positive move for Netanyahu's relationship
with Donald Trump and his Axios and others
are reporting this weekend.
And we'll get back to Richard on this later in the show.
Not not good for Donald Trump's relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu.
Still out in the morning, Joe.
New York City police say an off-duty border patrol agent was shot by an illegal immigrant
in a Manhattan park.
We've got the NYPD's chief of department, John Schell, with us next to talk about that
case. Plus, we're going to dig into a new report on how Treasury Secretary Scott Besant allegedly
made the case to President Trump against the firing of Fed Chair Jerome Powell and how
the president wasn't happy that that was leaked to the Wall Street Journal.
And a reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You listen,
you can listen to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and that really
does seem to make sense. We're trying to keep it easy for you. Morning Joe will
be right back.
A live look at the New York City skyline on this Monday morning. It is indeed Monday again.
Back to the news now.
President Donald Trump has followed through on his threat to sue media mogul Rupert Murdoch
and the Wall Street Journal.
Less than 24 hours after that newspaper published an article saying that Trump sent his then friend,
Jeffrey Epstein, a body birthday letter back in 2003.
The lawsuit filed on Friday
seeks at least $10 billion in damages,
arguing the supposed letter is a fake
and the defendants knew it when they chose to deliberately defame President Trump.
The Journal's publisher, Dow Jones, pushed back, saying in a statement, quote, we have
full confidence in the rigor and accuracy of our reporting and will vigorously defend
against any lawsuit.
Meanwhile, the Justice Department on Friday asked a federal judge to unseal grand jury transcripts tied
to the criminal cases of Epstein and his co-conspirator, Delaine Maxwell.
And I have some new reporting that emerged over the weekend.
My colleague Ashley Parker for the Atlantic about the war, the strategy the White House
has tried to put forth to quell this firestorm about Epstein.
They considered appointing a special counsel.
They considered last week before the journal story, releasing more material.
They even thought that President Trump might want to have daily news
conferences to address this, a la those he had during the COVID pandemic in 2020.
Trump nixed all those and there were some in Trump world who thought those news
conferences in particular would have been a bad idea. Some of the firestorm on the right has quieted down in recent days.
Ali Vittali, President Trump has done a pretty good job sort of unifying his base
to go after a common foe, in this case, the Wall Street Journal.
Yeah.
Some of those on the right were very critical of Trump and his handling of Epstein,
demanding to know more, now are questioning the authenticity of this letter
as we know to the journal of course stands by it.
So let's get into the next phase of this.
There are rumblings that more revelations could be coming.
The White House is eager to turn the page, but it's Monday.
He's going to get questions about it.
He hasn't taken questions from the press in a few days.
You know they're coming the next time a reporter sees them.
Speaker Johnson in particular was one of those who defied him last week and said look we need to know more
what's the latest you're hearing from Republicans on the Hill and in the
greater GOP ecosphere what they want next. I think Johnson might have defied
him but as soon as the headlines started popping that Johnson was demanding more
transparency just as Trump was saying let's cool it and back off of this issue,
Johnson made clear to say, no, no,
I think those headlines are overstating what I said there.
So he's trying to toe this line.
And if Johnson really did want more transparency,
he's actually got procedural options before him
from a legislative perspective,
because there's a bipartisan push
from Thomas Massey and Ro Khanna
to compel the Justice Department to
release and be transparent on the Jeffrey Epstein case.
They moved a procedural motion on this in a non-binding fashion at the end of last week.
They weirdly kind of coupled it together with the crypto resolution and bill that they ended
up passing.
But it's not expected that we'll actually see movement on that.
And then separately, J-Mart, you've got this discharge petition that could get ripe for
the floor by the time they get back in September.
That's a long ways to go, though.
And I think to me, if I look on the Hill, there's only a few tangible ways that they
end up getting more answers to this.
And yes, one of them might be a discharge petition.
But the one that really has my attention is Senator Ron Wyden saying in the last year
of the Biden administration, I got a look from the Treasury Department at some financial
transactions that show wire transfers and other items related to Epstein and who might
have been doing business with him.
In Wyden's words, that's thousands of leads that you could go down of following the money.
Is that one of the avenues where people get something tangible out of this?
Is it from Dick Durbin, who's trying to lobby DOJ for more information?
I mean, is there a space here that actually gets people more?
I think it's only whatever Trump and his DOJ wants to hand over.
I just don't think that ultimately this Congress is going to press Trump on something he doesn't
want to be pressed on.
We've seen this on the Lindsey Graham sanctions bill against Russia that we're told could
happen in the June work period.
Well, it's now July 20th, 21st, and it's not moving because Trump doesn't want it.
Trump is going to hand over what he wants to hand over on this.
Look, I think if that discharge petitionality had been maybe moved last week
at the sort of white hot core of this story, maybe we would have a shot. I just think by
the time they come back in September, the idea of a GOP majority taking up that to sort
of create a bad story for Trump after Labor Day is really unlikely.
Yeah, it's just not going to happen. It's not going to happen in part.
Like you said, if something had moved last week when this story was white hot, that would
be one thing.
When you had all of these MAGA podcasters going out saying, your base is enraged, your
base is angry at you, Mr. President, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe there may have been movement, but what do politicians do, especially politicians
in the era of Donald Trump?
They look at polls.
And I want to throw this to you, Jay Martin, Ali, also.
Let's look at a couple of polls that came out recently, and they show Donald Trump with overall, with
Americans, his approval rating is in the low 40s.
In this CBS News, YouGov approval 42, disapprove 58.
But look at support among Republicans. All the way up in the high 80s, 89% job approval among Republicans, according to
the CBS News YouGov poll. There was also an Economist YouGov poll, where the numbers were
pretty identical there. The approval rating among Republicans was 84%, while his overall approval rating was 41%.
But the numbers, I'm sure, Jay Mart,
that President Trump is looking at right now
is he's looking to see if there's movement
among his hardcore base or whether that's just
social media types and podcasters
who are churning up their audience on this.
And right now, it certainly looks there you see 84% approval among Republicans.
Right now, it certainly is looking like his base is sticking with him through Epstein.
So he doesn't have to really listen to podcasters telling him he has to show the American people more. And who's the one pushing the discharge petition? It's it is
Thomas Massey, who is the only Republican who has had the spine to
repeatedly vote against vote against Trump and the party line. So yeah,
look, if you're a member of Congress, Joe,
and you're trying to figure out is the water warm to get in and defy this president, who
are you going to look to? Are you going to look to an angry podcaster and somebody who's
deep in a conspiracy rabbit hole? Or are you going to look to data showing that, guess
what, Trump's in 90-10 with your primary voters I think we know
the answer to that yeah Ali I mean again you cover the hill when these
Republicans are looking at Donald Trump's approval rating at 90% 89% among
Republicans they're not gonna be pushing any discharge visit petition to drive
him out the base is staying with Donald Trump like it always has and by the way
if this is still a story in September, then the larger issue here is how the
White House hasn't been able to find any kind of an off-ramp whatsoever. That
would be utterly striking. And I think the NBC reporting though from over the
weekend is really interesting. The idea that Trump is frustrated by having to be
the person that takes the heat for his attorney general. I think we all knew
that it was only a matter of time
until he got there.
But really leaving this now at her feet,
trying to shirk all of the responsibility,
despite the fact that all of them
pushed these conspiracy theories,
said that putting them back in the White House
would be the thing that got their voters the transparency
that they so demand on this issue.
Now Trump is going to try to push this squarely
into the Department of Justice.
And you're watching this too in real time.
This administration has had success
in leveraging its supporters against the courts.
And so now when they say, all right,
we're gonna press the courts to release
pertinent grand jury information
that's relevant to Epstein,
that's not gonna cast the broad, wide net
that his supporters want when they're talking about
the existence or not of a client list for Epstein. They want a broader list of people here.
That's not what the grand jury files are likely to produce, but it's also a
question grand jury files, and we all know this, are regularly shrouded in
secrecy for good reason. And so whether the courts actually allow the release of
that could let the Trump administration, the Department of Justice, say, look we
did try.
It just didn't work out this way.
And then once again, they're back
in the position, Joe, that
they've been this entire term,
which is when the courts block
them, they say, look, the judges
are the ones that don't want you
to have the transparency on this.
And I think that actually could
be a good way of getting out of
it without actually doing
anything.
And the question is being asked
whether this will still be a story in September
when Congress returns. I think the more pertinent question right now is will this still be a
story in August unless shoes continue to drop now that the MAGA base has aligned itself and Democrats and NBC reporting has said all
along that there was no there there as far as grand conspiracy theory pushed by the MAGA
right, chances are good this story will not even make it into August unless of course,
as I said, several other shoes drop.
The host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale. thank you so much. Great to have you with us. And Politico's Jonathan Martin,
thank you as well. I understand that your life is not wrapped up in winning
the Florida-Bama International mullet toss, but we we love you all the same
because you're such a such a cold hearted competitor. Wind up, toss baby.
Watch out, watch out man.
The king of 38 is coming to the floor of that night.
Coming up next, we're gonna take a closer look at the fallout from the decision to
cancel the late show with Stephen Colbert.
As Vanity Fair's Molly John Fass argues the move by CBS
executives is quote, not funny.
She's going to join us to explain
it. Plus, we're going to bring
you the latest in the shooting of
an off duty border patrol agent
in New York City and what
President Trump is saying about
it. Morning Joe, we'll be right
back.
To announce that we have a person of interest in custody. In New York City, this 21-year-old male has prior arrest for assault and violated in order
protection.
At the time of this shooting, he had an active bench warrant from the Bronx, was wanted for a robbery from last December
and a stabbing from January.
A robbery from last December and a stabbing in January.
In less than one year, he has inflicted violence in our city.
And once he is charged for last night's crimes, we will
be able to add attempted murder to his rap sheet. New York City Mayor Eric
Adams announcing the arrest of suspect in the shooting of an off duty customs
and border protection officer NBC News correspondent Kamala Bernal has the
details.
This is the moment DHS says an off duty customs and border protection officer is ambushed and shot late
Saturday by a man with a deportation order. Authorities believe two men who
approached on a scooter or attempting to rob the 42 year old officer who was in
a park with a friend. Two senior law enforcement sources say it appears to
be a random encounter.
The alleged shooter identified by police as Miguel Francisco Moranunas of the Dominican
Republic. New York City's police commissioner says he approached the officer from behind,
and that's when the officer drew his service weapon.
The perp fired first and an exchange of gunfire followed. The officer was struck in the forearm and in the face.
Mora Nunez was taken into custody after going to the hospital to be treated for his injuries.
Authorities confirming he had previously been arrested for domestic violence, robbery, assault, and was wanted in Massachusetts for kidnapping. President Trump saying on truth social that more Nunez was apprehended at the border in April
2023. But instead of being deported was released. Let's make something
incredibly clear tonight. Today, our officer is a hero. If not for his
efforts, this person of interest would have committed more armed robberies. The
officer is expected to make a full recovery. With us now the NYPD's chief of
department John Schell. Chief tell us what happened. Well this Miguel Mora
went into a park on Saturday night Riverside Park and two people on a moped
which you've seen the city for years and we think he committed one robbery five went into a park on Saturday night, Riverside Park, and two people on a moped, which he's
seen in the city for years, and we think he committed one robbery five minutes prior to
trying to rob our federal agent, and you saw the shootout.
You know, quite frankly, this should never have happened, and Dank Carter is going to
be okay.
But let's just timeline this. Mr. Mora came into this country April of 23. He was giving a notice to a peer for a judge hearing. He didn't show up.
The judge issued a deportation order November 6th of 24. He goes in front of a judge a couple weeks later for an arrest, and by our sanctuary city laws, we can't detain him.
From there, he decides to rob someone in the Bronx in December of 24, stab someone in January of 25
in the Bronx, and then takes a trip to Worcester County Mass and robs a pawn store of numerous
firearms. Don't know what he was doing from January till this past Saturday night,
where you see two guys in a moped
we've dealt with for years,
robs, a person who finishes a robbery five minutes prior,
approached a federal agent,
you see the video right in front of you.
The point that we're making here is,
this should never have occurred.
We need thoughtful change
to our sanctuary city laws in the city that protects
our New Yorkers. And that's what he was. He was a New Yorker who happened to be an agent
sitting in a park from these kinds of criminals. And it's a small minority. We're not talking
about the majority. Majority work hard, honest people, pursuing American dream. This person
here, Miguel Mora, is the poster child for what is wrong with sanctuary city status in New York City.
Yeah, and Chief, you have said that. You've been very careful to explain.
You understand the purpose behind sanctuary cities, and you understand that it's motivated by people with all of the best intentions,
but the practical effect of that
leads often to crimes like this.
Again, it's a minority of those that have come
to this country illegally,
but still the inability to be able to lock them up
because of a sanctuary city status, you say that's the real problem here.
No doubt about it.
Like I said, we're a benevolent city.
We want people to pursue the American dream.
Hard work and honest monuments, no doubt about it, there should be a path for you.
But in a small minority, this judge should have the opportunity to detain this person.
The people who were robbed, stabbed, this border patrol officer shot in the face, missing
17th and a bullet lodged in it, they don't care about sanctuary state.
They care about their safety.
And this is what we are talking about.
Thoughtful change for consequences for these actions.
You know, Richard, it was fascinating.
We have many people in New York that had never really
been touched by the impact of illegal immigration.
And after there was an influx, many sent from Texas,
and I think perhaps Florida.
I forget where they were bused in from.
Suddenly I started hearing from liberal friends who had never voted for a Republican in their life
sounding like people across the rest of the country being concerned about being overwhelmed
by illegal immigrants, public services, the fear of crime. Again, much of that's overblown.
And as the chief says, you know, the number of actual crimes are limited.
In fact, there's been one study after another study after another study through the years
that show Native Americans commit crimes at a higher percentage than illegal immigrants that's a very, very, very important issue. And I think that's a very important issue.
And I think that's another
study after another study
through the years that show
Native Americans commit crimes
at a higher percentage than
illegal immigrants that come
into this country. That said.
You should have laws that
allow you to arrest people
that have committed crimes and keep them in jail. No, absolutely, Joe. And I would the to make the sort of thing that happened this weekend less likely. What changes,
you know, they're prepared to introduce to sanctuary city status that would
make New York safer. Yeah, and we heard from President Trump, of course,
over the weekend talking about this case. He has vilified, contrary to statistics,
saying illegal immigrants are responsible for so many crimes. So, Chief, while we
have you here, just get your sense as to, look, we're now at the midway point of this summer, certainly, particularly post
pandemic, there's been a lot of scrutiny on big cities and violent crime. Talk to us about what
trends you're seeing here in New York City, as Richard mentioned, just a few months from an
extremely important election. Right, so big timeline for where we came in 2020, we've spoken
about it here before, but in terms of crime in the city,
violence in the city going down, especially shooting violence going way down.
Our quality of life, you can see it's getting better.
So we're in a good trajectory as we close out this year,
and hopefully that momentum continues.
You know, we've worked so hard with the police department to help this city.
Safety is the prerequisite for everything. You know, we've worked so hard with the police to help this city. Safety is the prerequisite for everything.
We can't go backwards.
We cannot go back to days we're on our heels.
We cannot go back to days where cops get water pouring in their head and don't do anything
about it.
We have to stay in this posture to help people fix their quiet life, but take the bad people
off the street as a collective to keep the city safe.
There's no going backwards here.
There really isn't. Yeah, chief. I want to ask you. I mean, again,
we're talking about this terrible incident. Uh, this crime, the shooting
that happened over the weekend. I am curious, though, just put it in
perspective for us about the safety of New York City before the pandemic. Uh,
crime rates were at a 50 year low. I understand that violent crime has been plummeting
since 2021. Talk about, put it in perspective, where are we right now? How safe is New York
City compared to other cities?
Look, we say all the time, I think we're the safest big city in America. Our numbers indicated,
and we have, you know, we're the Mecca, right? We have eight and a half million people, 24, 7, 365 in the city, our friends, our families,
everything else. But you know, crime is going down, right? And like you just mentioned,
since 2021, when you take the amount of firearms, illegal guns off our streets, 22,000, it translates
to record lows in people getting shot and murders. So it's not
rocket science how to how this goes. And we're doing this where we're on the
staff to buy a couple of 1000 offices. So it's a credit to our team, but it's
also a credit to the young men and women detectives and cops out in the field
who were doing this work and keeping the city safe. So very proud of them. A
lot of work to do still, but we cannot go backwards. This is not an option. Yeah, but post pandemic, you're still down
cops. How many police officers do you need to be back at full level? And how
do you get there? Well, look, we're at 40,000 on our peak. All right, we're at
34,000 and change right now. We'd like to at least get to 35, but there's a
sweet spot in the middle there. We're doing heavy recruiting000 and change right now. We'd like to at least get to 35, but there's a sweet spot in the middle there.
We're doing heavy recruiting.
We've made some alterations to our requirements.
We're getting more applicants.
So we think we're gonna increase the size
of the staffing of this department,
but it's gonna take a couple of years
because we still fight attrition, right?
It's not a net number.
So it's gonna take a cumulative years of doing this
and we will get back.
All right.
Chief of Department at the NYPD John Shell.
Thank you so much for being with us and as always thank you sir for your service.
We greatly appreciate it.
My pleasure guys.
My pleasure chief.
All right.
And still it's got a chef.
Loren away with a British open and it's because he saw the only weakness in his game.
Pablo Torre joins us to explain that along with our international golf
correspondent Richard Haas and also President Trump's new demand when it
comes to the name of Washington's football team and I think Cleveland's
baseball team as well.