Morning Joe - DSA v. Democrats: The battle to define a political party

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

July 28, 2026 – 6am: Joe monologue: DSA v. Democrats: The battle to define a political party Trump asks Supreme Court to allow his executive order restricting mail-in voting Trump tells Senate Majority Leader Thune to keep Senate in session over so-called ‘SAVE’ Act Mediators see progress in the talks to end the war between the U.S. and Iran NYT Media Reporter Michael M. Grynbaum discusses the paperback release of his book, Empire of the Elite: Inside Condé Nast, The Media Dynasty That Reshaped America To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I've done more for you than your parents, okay? Your parents are good. I'm not going to knock your parents, but I have been better to you than your parents. That I can tell you. And they would agree with me. Wherever they may be, they would agree. Now eggs are much lower than they were when we first started. And that's true with everything else.

And you'll see how true it's going to be after we get rid of the nuclear threat of Iran, which will be very quickly. But I had nothing to do with it. You know, they have this term. So here I am. I'm one day in office. And the fake news goes, affordability. Affordability. I said, what's affordability?

What's that all about? Prices are too high. I said, I'm here for less than 24 hours. But we've brought down prices. No, no, you haven't. You've been there for a year and a half, health care. To live in America. More expensive than it's.

ever been, and that's because of you. That's because of what you and the Republican Party did and your one big, lousy bill. Rent, higher than ever, harder to get into homes than ever before. Groceries, sorry, Mr. President, groceries are more expensive today than they've been in 50 years. We could go down the list. There is a very large list. All of that was just sort of crazy talk. I got to say the funniest part of it was you remember when Republicans and talk radio freaked out when Barack Obama said, you didn't do it all yourself. We were all kind of in this together and we all kind of helped you. People melted down because the president was saying the government was claiming that they had a role in the building of their business. Here, Donald Trump says, I've done more for you.

than your parents. First of all, an abject lie, a total complete lie. But can you imagine if Barack Obama had said, I've done more for you than your parents. But he says it. It just rolls by. And these same hypocrites that melted down when Barack Obama said, you didn't build that business all by yourself. We'll sit back and go, yeah, okay, yeah, I guess he's right. He did do more for those people than their parents. I mean, the stupidity of that, the arrogance of that, it's unprecedented in American politics. Congratulations, that's a new one. There were a lot of unprecedented things here. That was President Trump in Michigan yesterday, where he touted the impact of his tariffs on the auto industry and once again mocked the issue of affordability, something that is plaguing most Americans right now.

The president is also now pushing the Supreme Court to allow him to restrict most. mail-in ballots for the midterm elections, it comes amid his continuing pressure campaign on the Senate to pass the so-called Save Act. Which would stop people. It doesn't save. It's not a voter ID law because 45 states would have driver's licenses that would not suffice. And the president will have separate meetings today at the White House with Ukrainian President Volodomir Zelensky and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who are both in Washington

for Senator Lindsey Graham's funeral. Now, the Zelensky meeting is going to be fascinating because the president actually is starting to see the benefits of an alliance with Ukraine because they've created, as David Petraeus has said, and some many others have said, they've created the future of warfare. And I think the president wants in on that because right now, we are, actually paying for that with Iran. And of course, Russia is helping Iran. But the president wouldn't even admit that yesterday. With us, we have the co-host of our 8am hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, political strategist Mark McKinnon, CEO and co-founder of Axis Jim Vandahai,

and Politics Bureau Chief and Senior Political columnist at Politico. Jonathan Martin is with us this morning. Great group. A lot to talk to. We got a ton to talk to talk. tell them about. But I just got to start with something that was all over social media in the news yesterday. And before we got all the big events in Washington cross world, I wanted to show everybody a notable clip from one of the Sunday shows, a national co-chair for the Democratic Socialists of America. The DSA was on Fox News Sunday, and here was one of our exchanges with host Shannon Breen. Okay, so we're going to put up on the screen a few of the things that are part of your platform. And I want to ask you, just give me sort of a true false on these. Abolish the Senate.

True. Okay. Replace the presidency and Supreme Court as we now know them. Yep. Abolish ICE. Absolutely. Abolish borders and give amnesty to anyone currently in the U.S. illegally. As a long-term plan, yep. Defund the Pentagon. Absolutely. Abolish prisons, at least in large part. Yeah, again, that is part of a long-term program, yeah. Okay, so no prisons. Government or public ownership of most large corporations. Yeah, absolutely. Democrats, Democrats, Democrats, Democrats. Let those with ears here. My Angela said when somebody shows you who they are, believe them, the first time, people know themselves much better than you do. And, well, What's true of people is also true of political parties.

And as you just saw, the national co-chair of the DSA went on television and showed us exactly who she is and what her party believes. Abolish the U.S. Senate, the presidency as we know it, the Supreme Court as we know it? True. Abolish ICE? Absolutely. Open the borders? Defund the Pentagon? Empty the prisons? Have the government seized private companies? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. All questions answered with complete conviction. And all those responses completely disqualifying for a party

likes to tell people they're really just about health care and tax reform. I had no problem with debate. Barack Obama might say that a party that stops debating the big issues, with itself stops growing. But there's a difference between pushing your party to be better and asking it to abandon every single thing that makes it worth belonging to in 2026. Remember how the Democrats push back against the lawlessness of January 6th and the attempt to overthrow the election, how they rose up and fought back against Americans and immigrants being gunned down in American streets, and they did it to defend the basic American values and the

Constitution? And as far as defense goes, JFK promised America would pay any price, bear any burden to assure the survival and the success of liberty. LBJ passed the most sweeping civil rights legislation in history. That's a party worth fighting for. Bill Clinton balanced the budget four years in a row. Nobody's done that in over 100 years. And Barack Obama, he created the Affordable Care Act and expanded health care coverage to record levels. You know, he added 20 million Americans to the insured roles. And Joe Biden fought back against the corrupt anti-democracy forces that still, in fact, Donald Trump's Republican Party.

But being that party defends democracy also demands condemning a party that calls to abolish the U.S. Senate, the House, the presidency, and the Supreme Court. Wants to release murderers and rapists from jail. I mean, one candidate was asked by the New York Times three times. Do you support letting murderers out of jail? She wouldn't even answer. A party that zero's outspend. on defending America's borders, defending America overseas, defending America at home,

takes police officers out of our children's schools and off our streets and erases America's borders? Come on. Democrats have always believed you can love your country while pushing it toward being that more perfect union, and you can do that without wanting to burn it to the ground. If Democrats want to make America more affordable, more fair, and more free, and I think they do. They better speak truth to its most extreme base, or they're going to let a small faction of radicals drive more people toward Donald Trump. Because Chuck Schumer, Akeem Jeffries, every other Democrat in Washington, D.C., make no mistake of it. If you don't define your party today, Donald Trump will be sure to define it in November.

And Jim Van Dy, you've written about this. You talked about how Donald Trump took over the Republican Party in six steps. You're also looking at what the most radical elements of the DSA are doing to the Democratic Party. I talk about that. Yeah, anyone who thinks that Democrats couldn't eventually nominate a socialist candidate is not paying attention to what's happening inside the Democratic Party. You have a base that is really fed up. They feel like the establishment loses elections and doesn't have a spine. They're looking for something new.

Then you see what happens with the mayor in New York. You see what happens in House races in New York. You look at what happens in Colorado. You look to my home state of Wisconsin where Francesca Hong, who is a DSA. endorsed, a DSA believer, is now the leading candidate to get the nomination for the Democratic Party in that state. Something is happening. These ideas, at least some of those ideas are starting to resonate with the base. More Democrats have a favorable impression of socialism than capitalism. Now, do I think most Democrats think the ideas that you just outlined and that the

head of the DSA outlined are good ideas? I think most people think they're loony, abolishing the police, setting free prisoners, getting rid of the Senate. That's nonsense. Most people would say that's not good policy. But there's a lot of those policies that do resonate, especially when you can camouflage them as affordability or as kind of our rage against the establishment machine. And this is very real.

And you have to look at what happened to Republicans as an example. I thought I was thinking this morning, Joe, when you came into Congress, right, It used to be a very establishment-dominated party. Then you had this Republican rebellion followed by the Tea Party and then followed by Donald Trump. And you basically had an entire takeover of a party that went from establishment to unthinkable, to what you would have said was unthinkable in 94. Most would have said is unthinkable in 2004.

The same thing could take place within the Democratic Party because they feel like they keep putting up losers. They feel like, oh, I go with the establishment and I get Donald Trump twice. why should I keep doing that? I'd much rather go with what makes me feel good and what animates me. And I do think there's a lot of Democrats who feel like the government should have a bigger hand in things. They do rightly feel like affordability is a massive problem for a lot of people. And they feel like the system as it's created right now isn't serving them. So these candidates are speaking to something that is resonating. And if it wasn't resonating, they wouldn't be winning.

And if they win, it becomes contagious. If it becomes contagious, the established might hate these ideas, but they'll do what Republicans did, which is fall silent because they fear they'll get decapitated politically. And that's what we're trying to get at in this column today. I'm not saying we're there. I'm saying there are definitely signs, and anybody who's not paying attention to him is not paying attention to American politics. Yeah, listen, I completely agree with you. And Jonathan Lemire, let's be very clear here. because I don't want to hear any bullshit about, oh, Joe's against affordable health care.

Joe's against, no, I'm for that. I'm for affordable health care. In fact, our health care system is so broken, we're going to have to go back and actually fix Obamacare because Republicans have been breaking it over the past couple years. And that's going to move more toward a universal health care system. I also know that the establishment in Washington, D.C., the Democrats and the Republicans, don't work. Also agree that billionaires need to be taxed. I mean, these are things that most Americans agree on.

We need tax fairness. At the same time, when the DSA co-chair says, our party supports abolishing the Senate, getting rid of the Supreme. Court, getting rid of the president, getting rid of jails, getting rid of the Pentagon, defunding all of these things? I think that requires that you ask the Michigan Senate candidate if he agrees with those policies. I think that requires you asking the mayor of New York City whether he agrees with all of those policies. I think that requires that you ask any political candidate that is running, do you agree that supposed to why?

Because wait, because they're going, way, oh, that's not fair. They sound just like Republicans if they say that when you ask them about, hey, Donald Trump said this today. What do you think about it? So it's just accountability. Let us know if you really are about affordable health care, if you really are about affordable housing, if you really are about lifting up the working class and making millionaires and billionaires and multinational corporations finally pay their fair share? Tell us that and condemn all that

other craziness because it is craziness. That's what I want to see reporters start asking these candidates today. And if they're smart, they'll run as far away from that lunacy as possible. If they refuse to answer it, that's a bad sign for them. That's a bad sign for their campaign. And that's a bad signed for the Democratic Party if they don't speak truth to power. Yeah, no, I think that's fair. If mainstream Republicans, and there aren't too many of those left, but if they're asked about some of the sort of more extreme ideas held by Donald Trump or his allies, then, yes, than Democrats. That shame tests should be applied to two Democrats. And to be clear, I agree with Jim Van de Haid said the vast majority of Democrats would

not agree with almost any of that stuff that the DSA leader there put out in that interview. In fact, believing even one of those positions probably would be disqualifying in just about every part of the country. There are only a few exceptions there, and we have seen some wins. And Mark McKinnon, you are, of course, veteran political strategist. Though these views are not widely held, but they are reflective of something. They're reflective of an energy that's in the Democratic Party right now. It is on the left. It's progressivism.

So to what Joe just said, if you were advising one of these candidates who was going to be put you know, on the spot by a reporter being asked about these positions, how would you handle it? Well, Jonathan, first of all, I'd say that this is so typical of Democrats. When the wind is at their back, when they have every issue in the country that voters really care about, the economy, inflation, the war in Iran, the Democrats are winning. But what do Democrats do when they have the wind at their back? Turn around the boat. Go right into the head with something crazy like this. I never thought I'd hear the word defund police again.

after what happened politically the last time to Democrats because of that. So what I would say is that acknowledge that there is a, that there's an energy. And that energy is really about just being mad about the incumbency of Democrats and the failure to fight the system, fight the corruption, and stand up. So I think this platform, as you've acknowledged, is just, that's not something that 99, 95% of Democrats agree with any of that. But it's just reflective of an energy and an anger. It was very much like MAGA at the beginning.

So just acknowledge that anger and fuel it in the right direction, but slap them down when you have the opportunity to do it. And, Mika, the other part of this, of course, is that even if there are actually not many Democrats who believe this, it's a gift to Republicans. Talking like that allows Republicans to label the entire party. Their GOP, like on their heels right now, and this is a life preserver they can hang on to it and then turn it into a cudgel.

Exactly. But, Joe, here's the thing, though, again. They'll use it. For those candidates out there that identified themselves as DSA, this is the head of their party. Yeah. Right? So this isn't just about Democratic energy. Yes, I think Democratic energy is great.

I've always said it's the progressives, not the centrist, it's the progressives who knock on doors. It's the progressives who do phone banks. It's the progressives that get out in March. It's the progressives that provide the energy to the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is big enough. to have progressives, to have moderates, to have members of the DSA party. But those members of the DSA party have to tell us, are you for affordable health care, or are you for what she said?

Yeah. Because if you're for what she said, and she's ahead of your party, so you can't dismiss it, are you for what the head of your party said? This is a very simple question, and the reason I'm talking about it today is because Democrats can put it behind them today, or we can still. be talking about this in early November. Yeah. Did you hear what I just said?

Don't brush this off. Take care of it in July. Get rid of the issue in July. Are you still going to be dealing with it through late October and early November? Don't be a Democrat. Don't do that. Take care of it now. Don't make the same mistakes you made in 2020.

Four, nip this one in the bud. So, J. Mart, for the new episode of your On the Road YouTube show and podcast, you sat down with someone trying to fight back against the extreme voices of his own party. Tell us what Rahm Emanuel told you. Yeah, speaking of noted DSA members, not Rahm Emanuel, the great socialist from the north side of Chicago. No, I'm kidding, Ram. Rom's a capitalist. But I will tell you this, though, I talked to Rom about this moment, and he does believe it's going to take some strong medicine that, you know, kind of like FDR saved capitalism in ways that a lot of the capitalists didn't like in the moment. And, guys, I think that's the way Democrats are going to have to, you know, fend off this insurgency from the left.

They're going to have to co-op some of it. That's what good parties always do. and they're going to have to sort of tamp down the more extreme elements. Obviously having the head of the DSA, somebody who is acting like they're almost a plant from the RNC, go on Fox of all places is the gift that keeps on giving all campaign season long. But you do have voices like Rom, and I sat down with him for my show in Chicago, who are eager to push back against the excesses of the left. The challenge is that's not where the energy is right now,

and the primary base of the party, especially in big cities, I think this fight is going to play out less this year, because ultimately this year is about Trump. I think this is going to play out more in 2028 within the Democratic nominating process. I think that will be the clear test. And folks like Ron want to have a voice, obviously, in that contest. And I think that's the key. Is this party still a Clinton Obama party?

We're not going to know that this year. I have a much more clarifying. in 2028. And guys, I asked Rom, I said, are you really running for president? Or is this just a sort of big last effort to get one final job in the American government? Joe, you'll appreciate this. I said, aren't you just the James A. Baker of the Democratic Party? You know, this is a great resume. And you're tempted to go for the brass ring at the end of a decade-long career in service to your party in your country. And, of course, in typical ROM style,

he gets closer and closer to me as I press him. And ultimately, he's standing up at the end of the interview, looking over him as I'm still sitting there asking him question because he's so animated. He didn't like that line of questioning, Joe, necessarily. He wants to be in the mix. He said he's going to really pursue this after the holidays and may in fact run.

I think a lot of his friends believe this is an effort to have a voice in the primary. and obviously have the opportunity for one final job in the next democratic government. Well, let's listen to one part of the interview real quick. Take a look. You don't go through this brain damage and all the things that you're going to ask

of your sacrifice to your family if you're not running for president of the United States. So you are? I haven't decided yet. And when I... And you wouldn't do all this if you'd want to. Yeah, but that's not... You didn't come all the way here to have pizza.

To have that, you know it. Amy and I will make a decision. I'm thinking really hard about it. About a year ago, I wasn't thinking about it when I got off the plane from Japan. People talk to me, and as I go around the country, the real question is, do you have what ails America? Right.

And I'll answer that. Would you decide? Well, make a decision basically right after the midterms, one way or another. That seems reasonable. He's running, Jamar. He's running. No, I think he's thinking about it.

Yeah. Oh, my God. He sounds like a politician there in that answer, doesn't he? I had a lot of encouragement, Joe. A lot of folks are coming out to me and saying, you still really think about this. When you hear politicians say they're getting a lot of encouragement, man, that's always the giveaway.

I'm getting a lot of encouragement for people. My phone's blowing up, you know. That means they got the job. Yeah, exactly. You know, some people do go to Chicago just for the pizza, but not wrong. Not you. You guys were there on business.

All right. Still ahead on morning, Joe. We'll have the latest on the war in Iran. As President Trump says, Good talks are taking place right now. Plus, the president is preparing to hold separate high-level meetings with Ukrainian president, Volodemir Zelensky, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this morning. We'll talk about what to expect from those discussions. And as we go to break, a quick look at the travelers' forecast this morning from Accuweathers, Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking? Mika, major travel delays across the northeast and mid-Atlantic today. strong afternoon thunderstorms from Washington, D.C., toward Richmond. Heavy showers and thunderstorms, Philadelphia, New York City, late today and tonight,

late tonight tomorrow morning into Boston. Chicago, Indy St. Louis dries out. It's just hot in Texas, just spotty thunderstorms across the southeast. If you're doing any traveling, major delays in the northeast today, also watch out in Orlando and Miami. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the know, download the AcuWeather app today. Yeah. So I'm still, I still got to get over it. This whole Donald Trump telling people in Michigan that he's done more for them than their own parents.

Jay Mart, there's a guy that I think estimates have pocketed $4 billion for himself and his family. I mean, I think that's the latest, the latest numbers, groceries cost more than they have in five in 50 years. And 50 years that just came out this week. Gas prices high. Health care was cut. Health care. People can't afford it. Republicans slashed health care. Cut health care.

And that's going to hurt people in red state. America's going to hurt a lot of people in that crowd. Closed rural hospitals. Yeah. Closing rural. So I just, again, where do we get to a point where a politician, the cult of personality becomes so strong that a politician feels free to say, done more for you than your own parents have. That's madness. And, you know, I think I saw

Jenna Goldberg say that if Barack Obama had said that Fox News would be running with it 10 days straight. And they would. They would have, and there would have been a meltdown there. But again, Donald Trump says it, and it's ho-hum. Yeah, Joe, there's a Trump discount, right? Because it's just dismissed as somebody who's doing shit, right? He's up there doing the Friars Club material, you know, take my wife, please. And I think because of that, he benefits. And by the way, that's been the story for 10 years. The coverage of his candidacy, the coverage of his presidency,

judged much more as somebody who's doing entertainment that he is doing politics because he has merged entertainment and politics, or a bar number of Buffalo Bill type figure who's now an elected office. And I think he's always benefited from that. So Joe, I think what his supporters would say is, come on, man, he's just joking around. He's just doing material up there. But here's the thing with Trump. He always does the just kidding. Oh, I didn't really mean that. That's always his crux. That's always his out. And so you have to take seriously even some of the stuff he says purportedly kidding because he just don't know what he's going to do. And if he was kidding, then why is he putting his name on the half dollar? Why is he putting his name on everything that, you know, isn't nailed down? Because, he obviously wants to have that kind of cult of personality hold on the country. I just don't think it's doing much. It's not helping his party. It's not cutting any ice for his party in the midterms. Standing up at one of the premier battleground states and saying, I have done more for you than your

parents is not reassuring to folks who are paying 405 a gallon for gas now. And I think that, you know, that's the real issue for his party, Joe, is that he's just not giving him anything to run on. And that's part of the reason why they're just grabbing onto the DSA now, like people in a rushing river grabbing onto a twig over their heads because there's nothing else. The only bill that they've passed this year of any consequence, the housing bill, he wouldn't even sign. So this is what's on offer. The other guys are going crazy, right? Yeah. And that's the only thing the Republicans can do is point to the most extreme policies of a small,

faction of the Democratic Party. But as far as Donald Trump, still denying affordability in a swing state like Michigan, again, grocery prices higher than they've been in 50 years, gas prices high, rent, unaffordable, forget mortgages, student loans, just collapsing. People can't put money away for their retirement. They can't even put money away for a home. And he's claiming that affordability is a hoax. You can attribute all those higher prices. to actions from this presidency, whether it be the big, ugly, or beautiful, whatever you want to call it, Bill, or the chosen by him war in Iran. Prices are up due to the actions during this presidency. Tariffs.

Tariffs. Yeah. The doge cuts. The doge cuts. The slashing of health care by Republicans, which, again, impacts red state Americans. This is a Trump affordability problem. Yeah, then blue state America. So the other effort the Republicans can make is impact the vote.

The Trump administration is asking the Supreme Court to allow his executive order to take effect that restricts mail-in voting ahead of the midterms. The emergency appeal filed yesterday comes after a lower court's decision to uphold a ruling that blocks Trump's order, which seeks to create a federal list of eligible voters and direct the postal service, to deliver ballots only to voters on that list. That's just unbelievable. The millions and millions of voters he wants to disenfranchise. The Trump administration asked the court to move quickly, arguing the new policies are critical and must be in place by the middle of August.

Earlier this year, Democratic-led states sued to block the executive order, arguing the president lacks authority to impose election restrictions because election, elections are administered by the states, not the federal government. The Supreme Court requested states respond to Monday's emergency application by August 3rd, with a ruling expected shortly thereafter. So, Jim Bandahai, a couple of things happening here. First of all, you have to take the president literally here, and I know there are a lot of Democrats and a lot of lawyers that are going to be fighting hard, but you look at what's happening here. You look at him continuing to growls and continue to kick around.

John Thune about the Save Act when the votes just aren't there. And yes, he wants to steal the election. He wants to rig the vote. Yes, he does. This is a guy that called the Georgia Secretary of State and said, find me 11,500 votes. You can do it. Just find those votes. So I win this. Recent address to the country was quite clear to. That said, this has the feel of a guy who's trying to do what he did in 20. 2020, when he kept talking about melon ballots and is being rigged, he's trying to set up an excuse for if Republicans lose. No doubt. And you don't really have to even listen to us or trust us on this. Watch what Senate Republicans have been doing in saying. Anybody who understands election law at the state level understands that many parts of that act just aren't workable. They're not doable. They're not practical.

And so, yes, most people think that you should have an ID, a valid ID, to vote. That's very different than what is included in that piece of legislation, which is why Republicans don't want anything to do with it. And they're ultimately not going to pass it. It's not going to be signed into law. And, again, it is an obsession of Trump's. The fact that he took a prime time address and dedicated it to making a bunch of allegations, many of which are not true or certainly not validated by anyone about the corruption in the election

system that does not exist shows that level of obsession. And it's so irritating to Republicans, none of whom have the Cajonais to go on and actually say it publicly, but it's so irritating to them because they're like, listen, let's go talk about affordability. Let's talk about the housing bill that we passed. Let's talk about the Trump accounts. Look at those Trump accounts, which actually seem like a pretty good idea to get people invested in the U.S. economy, teach them about capitalism, allow other people to get a tax-efficient way to help kids who might otherwise not be able to accrue the type of wealth that people coming from families of wealth can.

Do a prime time address on that, but he doesn't. He's just so obsessed on this one topic. In taking it back to what you were talking about in terms of him saying, I'm doing more for you than your parents, watch what the people are doing. People aren't buying it anymore. The polls have been very consistent, and by the way, they're consistent in getting a little bit worse,

each and every month in terms of inflation, in terms of the economy, in terms of the view of the war. So the big topics that he's touched, that he's championing, are not popular. They're not popular at all with independence. A lot of these, you're looking at 25% of independence support what he's doing. In politics and in polling, that's atrocious. That's the type of stuff that costs you the House, costs you the Senate, and might not be able to overcome even the goofy stuff we were talking about from the DSA earlier. And yes, they'll cling to that, like Jonathan said, but is it enough to offset the fact that people don't like what they're seeing with their own two eyes?

Yeah, no, the Trump is flailing right now. There's no question here. And it's not like there have been a lot of Republican acts of courage. But Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, has made clear he's not going to blow up the filibuster for this. He can count votes. He know the Save Act does not have support. And Trump's new call for Congress to stay in this summer that would, well, that frankly would prevent them from being home and campaigning for so many. of those who have re-election fights. And it seems like Trump's number one priority here is to

prevent people from voting, Mark McKinnon. And that includes the Save America Act and this provision to try to curtail mail-in voting, which so many states have used effectively for a long time, Democrat, Republican voters alike. That's exactly right. The strategy is, if I can't earn your votes, I'm going to eliminate your votes. And I live in Colorado. And Colorado has had mail-in balloting for years. And let me be clear about it. percent of Colorado voters vote by mail. 98 percent. Every single one of those votes, not randomly.

Every single vote is analyzed by an FBI analyst to be verified. It's more safe than voting in person. So this notion that there's problems with mail-in voting is just a complete fraud being perpetrated by Trump because he just doesn't like the fact that he's going to lose votes. Yeah. So then why does he do it, mail-in voting? You have Morgan McKinnon? Yeah. Great question.

If it's so bad, why does the president always vote by mail? That's exactly right. That's exactly right. He seems to like it, or he doesn't want to leave Marlago or something. He votes by mail. Mark McKinna and Johnson Morgan. It should be convenient. Yeah. It should be. Exactly. Jim Van Dy, thank you all very much for being on this morning and coming up. We're following the latest in Paramount's ongoing attempt to purchase Warner Bros. Brothers Discovery Media. A media correspondent for the New York Times, Michael Grinbaum joins us to discuss that,

and also a media dynasty that helped reshape America. Morning Joe is coming right back. Welcome back, Paramount CEO, David Ellison is confident the company's $11 billion takeover of Warner Brothers will happen despite the merger now being on hold. Paramount on Friday agreed to delay the deal amid antitrust lawsuits filed by 12 state attorneys general, the pause likely means the merger will not be completed until sometime next year. Variety obtained a company-wide memo Allison sent yesterday morning, defending the decision, writing, quote, we believe this is the right path because the facts and the law are on our side.

Jonathan? This is one of these top media stories we've had in a number of years. It said so many twists and turns, it's hard to keep track. Thankfully, we have someone here who can explain it to us. Author and Media Correspondent from your Times, Michael M. Grimbaum, joins us now. His book, titled Empire of the Elite Inside Condi Nass, the media dynasty that reshaped America is out today in paperback. We're going to get to that in just a minute. Also with us, happy to say, MS now contributor, Mike Barnacle, joins us. Good morning to you both. Grimbaum, we'll start with this merger talk. I mean, this has been, there's so much scrutiny on

there's been speculation and it has led to dismissals of major media figures, whether that was Stephen Colbert or the like. And now we have this lawsuit, which seemed to when it was filed, like a last-ditch effort by the state's attorneys generals, well, it's had impact, at least for now. What's the latest you know? Yeah, I think the state attorneys general are actually quite pleased with this outcome. But what's funny is that David Ellison and Paramount say they're pleased too. Basically, we thought this merger could have closed within a matter of a few weeks. They've now agreed to delay it all the way until. next summer and go straight to a trial. Now, Paramount says this was a way to avoid a preliminary

injunction from a judge who basically would have put the whole thing on ice. And they say, listen, let's go to a trial. We're going to win on the merits. For the state attorneys general, which includes California and New York, they're saying, wow, actually, this judge is sympathetic to our argument. This could create a media monopoly that would really make consumers, be bad for consumers. Give us fewer options for entertainment, fewer options for news. Remember, this merger includes combining CBS and CNN, two of the biggest news brands in the country, putting them into one operation. I mean, we'd be losing one of the great American sort of news outlets that we've had over the years. So there's real consequences of this deal. And it's really a statement about media consolidation in

America, where we have these billionaires buying and selling media assets like so many monotonies. Chip. So, but Michael, isn't there a great deal of peril given the amount of time now that they're supposed to be taking before the deal is finally concluded next year? I mean, seven or eight months from now? That's an immense amount of unknowns that could happen. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was a little surprised by how positive Paramount tried to spin this. I mean, yes, they want to put a nice face on it. But, you know, where will we be culturally, politically, 10, 11 months from now? Remember, David Ellison has spent so much time cultivating Donald Trump in his administration, throwing a private party for him in Washington, D.C., making sure that the Justice Department, which was reviewing

the deal, that Todd Blanche was, you know, sitting right by the president at this event. So where will be culturally, and Trump, who we know is so mercurial? I mean, if he were to say, turn on something he sees on 60 minutes, something he sees on CBS, and suddenly says, hey, I don't want this deal to go through anymore. There are a lot of variables that this adds into the process. And Trump has still been sharply critical of some of the stuff he's seen on 60 Minutes, despite of all this. Well, we're going to stay on it in the weeks and months ahead. So, Michael, when you're critically acclaimed book, Empire of the Elite was first released last summer, drew rave reviews for its exploration of the rise, golden age and cultural dominance

of the Condi Nass Magazine Empire, and its powerful editors like Anna Wintour, Graydon Carter, and Tina Brown. In it, you chronicle how for decades. Andy Nast in its wide array of magazines to find how to live the good life for millions of readers, helping to shape consumer habits, cultural trends, and political beliefs all over the world before facing a digital age reckoning amid the disruptive arrival of the internet era. The paperback edition of the book releases today featuring a new cover and an afterward about Anna Winter's latest role and the future of the magazines in today's culture. I read it when it came out. I loved it. I was certainly very sad. I know.

ever got to experience the expense accounts that were bandied about in this book. But talk to us about a year later. The story continues to change for media writ large, but in particular, this dynasty. Tell us more. Yeah, you know, magazines used to be kind of the primary cultural unit in this country. I mean, people learned all about culture and taste and style and in this monthly package of ink and pulp that showed up at our doors. And of course, today we live in such a chaotic media landscape, substack, TikTok,

were kind of, you know, blasted from all directions with different ideas, different bits of fashion. And there's a bit of nostalgia going on. When I released this book, I was kind of thinking, well, people over the age of 50 who grew up with magazines would be the ones to read it. So many young people came to my events, reached out to me, so excited about kind of how these magazines represented excellence and quality. And they were a way to kind of feel a little more stable and understand what was happening in the culture on a weekly and monthly and monthly. basis. What I set out to do with the paperback was Anna Wintour stepped down as the editor of Vogue after 37 years. Condi Nass, by the way, we were talking about consolidation. It's one of the last independent media companies out there that, by the way, has not capitulated to Trump. I mean, no settlements. The New Yorker is still publishing great, tough journalism. Wired Magazine,

actually, was one of the leading news outlets covering Elon Musk's Doge operations. And the Newhouse family, which owns Condi Nass, they have not given in. I mean, they've stood up to the president. They've backed their journalists. So I still think Condi Nass is one of the most fascinating American media dynasties, and I hope the book explains it. You know, the thing that strikes me and struck me when I read it originally is the magnificence of magazines at a certain period in this country, the cultural impact of magazines on this country, which is dissipated, obviously, over the past decade or so. But also, the role that Tina Brown played in rebuilding magazine interest.

I mean, she was incredible, an incredible editor. That's right. And, I mean, the way she's... So Vanity Fair, a lot of people don't realize only came back in the 1980s, although it was founded back in the jazz age. And Tina Brown really made it just mandatory reading all around the country, you know,

glamorous photos of celebrities, putting Ronald Reagan and Nancy dancing on the cover. I mean, these are sort of legendary magazine moments. And what I actually love is that Graydon Carter used to edit Vanity Fair. He had a best-selling memoir last year. Tina Brown has a substack, fresh hell, which I really recommend. Oh, she is such a fantastic writer. And the way she cuts through the noise and is so incisive. You know, I kind of joke people these days subscribe to a lot of different substacks.

And they, you know, each writer shows up in their inbox and you pay $5 a month for each one. What if, stick with me, all the writers were in one place. And you got one message sent to you, you know, every week with all of their writing. I mean, maybe there's a business model there. It sounds like it. The paperback edition of Empire of the Elite inside Condé Nast, the Media Dynasty, that reshaped America, is available now. Author and New York Times media correspondent, Michael M. Grinbaum, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning.

And still ahead on Morning Joe, the editor of the New Yorker David Remnick will join us with new reporting on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who will meet with President Trump this morning in the Oval Office. Plus, the new Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate seat in Maine, Troy Jackson, will be our guest this morning, as he now has less than 100 days to convince voters to elect him over five-term term. incumbent Senator Susan Collins. Morning Joe. We'll be right back.