Morning Joe - Fed Governor Lisa Cook to sue over Trump firing

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Fed Governor Lisa Cook to sue over Trump firing

Sir, as we've said very often, economic security is national security, and our country has never been so secure thanks to you. You have brought us back from the edge. You have the overwhelming mandate from the American people. You're restoring confidence in government. Thank you, sir. As we approach Labor Day weekend here, this is just such a great opportunity, really, to recognize your leadership as a true champion for working people. Mr. President, first of all, thank you. for the opportunity and work for you. You made this country safe. You opened up the economy.

You enforced the law. Now people can get up and provide for their families and go to work every day and be confident in that. Mr. President, I invite you to see your big, beautiful face on a banner in front of the Department of Labor because you are really the transformational president of the American worker. Thank you for saving college football, by the way. We're all very grateful. The country just feels different. You are going to save the whales on the east. It's called us because of this. Mr. President, working for this government for you is the greatest honor of my life.

I tell it to everybody and I really do feel that way and I thank you. And there's only one thing I wish for that that noble committee finally gets its act together and realizes that you are the single finest candidate since the noble piece, this noble award was ever talked about to receive that reward. Mr. President, it's pretty great to say,

celebrate Labor Day with a builder who loves labor, who loves the men and women who have built this country, the people that sweat, that have great skills. This is the greatest cabinet working for the greatest president, and I just want to say thank you. I'm having the time of my life working for you, Mr. President. Thank you. I'm having the time of my life Saying things that degrade me as a man. Really? Willie! It continues.

This is like part two. You know, at what point does personal pride come in? None of that. A lot of the guys we've just heard from there are the sort of self-described masters of the universe. Many of them in Wall Street, the mega ethos of masculinity, of being an alpha male, all that. You just don't find more beta behavior that we saw around the table. Aren't they the ones that talk about beta males? Betama.

Reve, I mean, my Lord, it is. When Jesus told us to be humble, he wasn't talking about that. That is someone becoming for any man. I searched the Bible. I can't find kings in the Bible that needed this kind of glory. I mean, you have to ask yourself the mentality of the president that he requires this or even allows this. I mean, I wouldn't even allow it

because it talks to your insecurity and self-doubt that you have to have this. It's really safe. Do you know who deserves that type of praise? Do you know who deserves it, Willie? Right there. Come on, baby. Come on.

T. Swift. Getting married, huh? And it's on the New York Post as well. Right now. So adorable. All very big news. I think the biggest fan we have, have here, Willie, is Allie Vitale.

Oh, yeah. She's a true. Died in the wool. Were you excited? How excited were you? The number of people who texted me yesterday to make sure I was okay, someone said to me, this is going to be a lot for Allie Vitale. And I was like, is the brand too strong?

Like, but honestly, like, there's so much news that we can't be joyful about that this is just like a purely good, fun, happy story. And I'm, I mean, I'm thrilled. I feel like we saw her on the Higher Heights podcast, and that was a real moment for Swifties to see her blending her brand with her partner's brand. We have never seen her do that before. And there's something really pure about the so high school song that they posted this with. I mean, it feels like all of the songs that she sung about love and, like, the depths of despair can bring you to are now just at the highest point that they can be.

I mean, I'm thrilled. That's nice. That is so nice, I like them together. I like that day one. I've liked their thing. Like, she, her previous relationships, it's been, and we understand why very private and doesn't talk about it ever. And they've just, like, lived out in the open.

She's kind of just said, you know what, I'm out here with this guy. He's not shy about it. I like them together. I'm very happy for them. I think he was wearing his little fish. He has a bucket hat. Bucket hat. Multi-collared now.

Good for them. I might be the biggest. wedding and pop culture since what? Royal wedding? Do we want to go all the way back and maybe Lady Diana and Prince? Allie? Allie's our expert.

Allie, what are you saying? This is my royal wedding, honestly. There is no comparison. Well, oh my God. Okay. Well, shall we get to the news? I think we already have. I feel. This is the news.

Well, Cracker Barrel, they change. I mean, Western civilization has been saved. Yeah. They got Uncle Rufus or Herschel or whoever they got back up on there. So never mind the fact that they're socializing everything else. A logo for a regional restaurant has been changed back to what it's been. Because that right there, that according to a lot of MAG supporters, was the downfall of Western as a civilization.

If that's the downfall of Western civilization, well, it really wasn't in such good standing anyway, was it? No, to me, with all that's going on, we are concerned about Uncle Herschel. Uncle Herschel. And let's not even mention that most of the menu, which I used to eat there sometime, is not healthy. I know. Could they change that? Yeah, I mean, no, no, no, no, Herschel is eating wrong. Rev, you and I can't go to Crackerbrose.

Oh, well, you know what? No, not at all. No, not at all. Let me just say, George Geist and I had a meal at Cracker Barrel a few weeks ago. Just outstanding. Come on, my way. You get the meatloaf a couple of sides that keep refilling your Dr. Pepper. And I go, ma'am, could I have gravy on gravy?

Oh, yeah. I just, I have marvellian gravy on. Make it do that to yourself. Yeah, and then you should run around the Cracker Barrel restaurant. Yeah, like a fell in time. Usually not feeling like one and after I eat a Cracker Barrel, you know? It's just general health that we've learned. Yeah.

Waterberg, going to put it underneath then. I get the gravy on top. A little chick-fil-a for dessert and you call it a day. A couple of Mr. Pibbs and a B.C. powder helps you go down strong. All right, seven minutes in. Let me get to the news. Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook is fighting President Trump's attempts to fire her, vowing yesterday to file a lawsuit.

This is just one day after the president said he would remove Cook from the board of governors over allegations of mortgage fraud. Cook's lawyer, Abby Lowell. said in a statement that Trump has no authority to remove the governor, adding, quote, his attempt to fire her, space solely on a referral letter lacks any factual or legal basis. Cook has not been charged with any crime. The central bank also weighed in on this issue for the first time yesterday,

noting that, quote, long tenures and removal protections for governors serve as a vital safeguard, while adding, the Fed will abide by any court decision. President Trump was asked about Cook's lawsuit and the Fed's response during his cabinet meeting yesterday. She seems to have had an infraction and she can't have an infraction, especially that infraction because she's in charge of,

if you think about it, mortgages, and we need people that are 100% above board and it doesn't seem like she was. We'll have a majority very shortly, so that'll be great. Once we have a majority, housing is going to swing and it's going to be great

the Fed will abide by any court to see you. Will you abide by a court to say? I abide by the court, yeah. I abide by the court. All right. All right, let's bring in New York Times opinion columnist David French and Capital Bureau Chief and Senior Washington columnist for Politico

Rachel Bade joins us. It's good to have you both with us this morning. So again, another sort of gray area as to whether or not this is retribution or not, but it sure looks like it. Well, I mean, the thing is, it all comes down to because we have the Article 1 branch. David Drucker said yesterday, the Supreme Branch, the branch that Madison intended to be supreme when he drafted the Constitution of the United States, David French, we have them.

Well, they're taking a holiday. They're taking a nap. They're like, they ate too much at Cracker Barrel, and they're going to be. going to sleep for the next couple months on the couch. So it really once again comes down to the courts. And I find it hard to believe that any court is going to go along with the president's decision to fire somebody again for clear political reasons. Well, I think you're going to see that the courts are going to require more than a referral letter. They're going to require more than some sort of accusation that's sort of floating in the ether before they're going to say

that this firing satisfies the statutory grounds. By statute, there's supposed to be no firings unless there's for cause here, for cause. This is not a position that is supposed to be within the total discretion of the president. And the Fed is a kind of a unique entity in American law. The Supreme Court has already signaled in a recent previous decision that it views the Fed differently than it views other agencies that are under the President. The Fed is not entirely under the President. It's got a unique structure. So I find it very difficult to believe that the court would allow a firing to go forward on nothing more than what we've seen so far. There's no adjudication. There's no finding of guilt. There's very little evidence in the public square.

So yes, it does seem to be political targeting centered around an allegation for which there is so far insufficient evidence. So if Cook is going to file a lawsuit, all of this is going to be adjudicated. but on firing her on the basis that we've seen so far, hard to believe that'll be upheld. Yeah, we should repeat that Ms. Cook hasn't been charged with anything. There's no specifics in this accusation of mortgage fraud. She said it was news to her when she heard it from President Trump. The Wall Street Journal is writing about this, the editorial board asking, what if Trump runs the Federal Reserve?

The board writes, this isn't a prudent fight for Mr. Trump to pick. And it isn't in the best interests of the country. We know from history what happens to central banks that become arms of politics. politician. See inflation in Turkey under President Erdogan in Argentina for decades. Richard Nixon jawbone then chair Arthur Burns to keep monetary policy easy, and the result was the 1970s great inflation. But if he wants to change the Fed, Mr. Trump has ample opportunity through appointments to the board, including his successor for Mr. Powell as chair next year. That doesn't seem to be enough for Mr. Trump, who in his athlete's thinks he can run monetary policy.

Has he considered what politically malleable Fed might do when the progressive left takes charge under another president? Of course he hasn't. Mr. Trump is all about short-term tactics and personal political advantage. Institutional integrity bores him. But if he succeeds in taking over the Fed, he and Republicans will own the results and whatever inflation returns. So obviously, David French, the sort of independence of the Fed Board has been. core to its existence since it began, since it was put into place. This obviously would make it a political arm if Donald Trump could just ad hoc, get rid of people and replace him with loyalists and make decisions on the board, not based on data around the economy, but on the whims

of a president. Well, absolutely. You saw in this sort of opening segment that y'all ran through of all of the effusive praise of Trump. Trump doesn't like independent thinking. He doesn't like independent minds. He wants people who do exactly what he tells them to do, and then will reflect back to him his own perceptions of his own wisdom and glory. There's nothing about this that implies some sort of serious monetary policy, something that implies that there's some real expertise that he wants brought to bear here that's lacking. What he wants is total subservience. And look, he wants to run the economy hot right now for his purposes so that he couldn't brag about what he's done. And the future is not on his mind. He wants it hot now for

his own reasons. And the legacy of inflation that could lead to down the line, well, that's somebody else's problem, not his problem. But it's important to remember the Fed is designed to resist exactly this kind of pressure. And this is going to come down once again to a court battle. So, Rev, the president, wants to run the Fed's monetary policy. He wants to to run Intel. He wants to run defense contractors. He threatens CEOs and then they come and make deals with him. He wants to run universities and colleges. He wants to run what's taught in classrooms. He wants to decide football mascot team's names in Washington, D.C. He wants to run police forces in D.C. and Chicago and other cities. We had a story last week about how he wants

to run absolutely everything. And the question is, where's Congress and where are the courts? And that's the real question. Are we going to see the guardrails enforced here that this country's built on? We're talking about going into the 250th anniversary of the nation next year. what kind of nation are we going to have when a president can do whatever and jokes about whether or not he wants to be a dictator or not. All shucks. I really don't want to be a dictator. But obviously he thinks he is. And he uses very clear signals here. I mean, are we forgetting when he raises these questions on the person in Federal Reserve that he is a 34 convicted felon doing this and was found guilty of having fraudulent things with businesses himself.

I mean, we're acting like if there's anybody that ever sat in the Oval Office that shouldn't be bringing up ethics and legalities is Donald Trump. Well, John Bolton and classified documents, it's rich. It's rich as Cracker Barrel Breakfast. Hey, with the old logo, with Uncle Rufus or Festus or whatever his name is. Look, you get your, there you go, MS now. That is a look. That's our logo and we like it. Nobody's going to change it. You woke. Lose beta males. heteronormative freaks. What are you doing?

We are now, baby. We are now. So with all that behind us, Rachel, let's bring you in. You can look at Congress two ways. The first way you can look at Congress is. You can look at it and say, well, where are the Republicans?

And that's the question that will be asked until Donald Trump leads Washington, D.C. But the second question is, where are the Democrats? We've had AOC and Bernie actually set in the woods on fire as old Hank Williams would have sung. But, you know, people like Norm Ornstein,

who we're going to have on later on today, say, why aren't they holding hearings not only in D.C., but across the nation? Why aren't the Democrats doing more to push back hard, to fight back hard, to grab the public's imagination? And not just, you know, not just have their insult,

de jure of Donald Trump and then go back into hiding. Look, I think it's easy to say, fight, fight, fight. But the devil's in the details there for the Democrats. I mean, everybody on the left is saying they want to see Democrats in Congress stick it to Donald Trump. But what do they mean by that? I mean, a good example on this. I think in September when lawmakers come back, there's going to be a big fight about a government

shutdown. Do Democrats refuse to fund the government unless Donald Trump rolls back this big, beautiful bill that he passed, that cut Medicaid? Do they say, you know, you need to stop sending the National Guard around the country? You need to reverse on that, or we're not going to fund the government. I would contend that that's not a battle. They should be picking. I mean, are they going to be willing to potentially take the blame if they're helping keep

agencies closed and all of a sudden, checks are not making their way to people around the nation? I just think, you know, the Democratic Party, they're very divided right now. You know, you have a wing of the party that they want to see something extreme. They want to see something, some Democrats sort of throw down.

But what do they mean by that? That's always the tricky part because they can repel swing voters. And they want to win back the majority. And the majority in the House runs through more moderate districts. Yeah, Nally, what are you hearing about what happens when Democrats and Republicans come back? I think the last specter of the near government shutdown hangs really heavy over Democrats' heads right now, Joe. Almost all of the Democrats that I've spoken to speak about what they see as positive forms of pushback. They point, for example, to Texas Democrats leaving the state to deny Republicans a quorum, even though.

it didn't fundamentally change Republicans' ability to reshape the map in Texas. They point to Senator Cory Booker's very lengthy filibuster on the floor, even though he wasn't filibustering anything and didn't actually have a policy agenda to enact there other than showing that Democrats still have animation and pushback. And so I think a lot of it is just how can they capture energy? How can they bring awareness? Because they don't have gavel power. They can't have subpoena power until they take back the House majority. Their pushback mechanisms have always been pretty muted. They don't have a ton of options. And so awareness and shining a light is really one of the key functions that they have. And honestly, something that Rachel said really

resonates. As I've gone to town halls for Democratic members, the Democrats who show up there, who are voters, say, I just want more fight. And I'll say to them, okay, what does that look like? And they say, I don't really know. I just want to see that someone cares. I just want to see that there is pushback. And so that is just a key piece of it, showing that there's life. And if that comes to a government shutdown, I've had Democratic members say to me, this is our only point of leverage. If a government shutdown happens, the party in power is typically the one that's blamed. And Democrats know that, they see that. And my sense this time is that unlike last time where Senate Democrats sort of turned tail on House Democrats and ultimately gave Republicans

the votes that they needed to avoid a government shutdown then, my understanding is that this time, it's likely to look a little bit different. They're also likely to do a short-term continuing resolution. So maybe that means we do this again by the end of the year, which, of course, is the way that things function in Washington now. All right. Still ahead on morning, Joe. President Trump is doubling down on sending the National Guard to Washington, D.C. to crackdown on crime. We'll play for you those comments as he considers expanding the move to other cities. Plus, we'll go through a new reporting from the Washington Post on FEMA employees being put on leave after criticizing the Trump administration. And a reminder of the Morning Joe podcast available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis.

You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Beautiful shot. Crime. I think crime will be the big subject of the midterms and will be the big subject of the next election. Think of it. They are, instead of saying Trump's right about crime, it's really bad. in Chicago. You have a guy in Illinois, the governor of Illinois, saying that crime has been

much better in Chicago recently, and Trump is a dictator. And most people say, if you call him a dictator, if he stops crime, he can be whatever he wants. I'm not a dictator, by the way, but he can be whatever he wants. I think it's going to be a big, a big, big subject for the midterms, and I think the Republicans are going to do really well. President Trump predicting crime will be a major issue during next year's midterm elections in regards to crime in the nation's capital, Trump says he has the authority to extend the National Guard's deployment there for another 30 days. Number one, we want to stay there for longer than 30 days, as you know, we have an absolute mandate and I can extend it, but I'd rather not have to declare a national

emergency because by that time, I mean, right now there's not an emergency. We've done, as you sort of said yourself, it feels like a different world. The president also continued to focus on Chicago, saying he has the right to do anything he wants to. No, that's just just not true. He does

not have the right to do anything he wants to do in Chicago. He also criticized Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker. But it would be nice if he would call me, I would change my mind immediately and he said, you know, because everybody knows Chicago is a hellhole right now.

Everybody knows. It's not like he's saying, Chicago has much better numbers right. Well, what's much better? You mean, 100 people are going to be murdered? It's going to be much more done. So I would have much more respect for Pritzker if he'd call me up and say, I have a problem. Can you help me fix it? I would be so happy to do it.

I don't love, not that I don't have the right to do anything I want to do. I'm the president of the United States. And so you can't do anything you want to do. So here one third of the constitutional government. In addition, Trump said he would also love to send troops to New York, but only if New York Governor Kathy Hockel would like him to. I'd love to do it. If she'd like, I get along with Kathy.

If she'd like to do that, I would do it. You see, look, New York has difficulty like other. And I don't want to make this bite. I want to make this like friendly. But the places we're talking about happen to be virtually all Democrat run. Let's bring in the co-host of our fourth hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, and MSNBC contributor, Mike Barnacle. So there's so much to talk about here.

But Willie, let's start with New York, if we will. I mean, New York, I think by just about every measure I've ever seen, is one of the safest big cities in America. The president said he got along with the governor. There have been a couple times they've talked, and they've been able to talk and work together on things. I know there are a lot of people in New York City who said they were glad when the governor sent the National Guard into the subways.

What was that? Six months a year ago, right? And there are a lot of people in New York who say, yeah, we're safe, but we could use a little more help. I mean, this is what we've been saying from the beginning. A federal government that works with a state government that works with a governor, if they can work together to alleviate crime in some of the more dangerous parts, nobody sees that as a bad thing. But that's just not what's been happening

thus far. That's not the way he views it. Well, he said it there, but yesterday he was saying this Pritzker guy needs to go to the gym more. That's not the way to like forge a partnership. The Mika says that to me every day. Yeah. Not diplomacy. We're doing Pilates now. Yeah, she's trying to teach me. I got Joe started on Polon. You look, you look at what they're doing. Yeah, I don't do that stuff, but you look, you look at the TV set and it's like somebody's going like this and you're like, oh, I can do that. And I have cramps all.

Oh, you wouldn't believe it. Isn't he ends up on the floor and like a pile of crams? Yeah, no, it's like, uh, it's no, but I got, you know what I do afterwards. They just got smoke soon. No, you get so mad. Not like mom's blood moving. He gets a blood move. And by the way, none other than your grandfather tell you, smoking cigarettes helps your circulation.

My great-grandfather was the face of camel cigarettes and a hockey hall of famer. You tell me. Oh, wow. Herbie Louis. But anyway, I digress. You're going to get it. You're going to get it. Don't give up.

I had cramp in the back of my ear low, man. I had to get a cracker barrel. It's a good thing for us. And about 4,000 calories. But anyway, so we talk about a partnership between states and federal government. That would be fantastic because I will tell you, there are a lot of people in New York City who say, crime's way down. It is a safe place.

But still, you know what? Don't always feel comfortable having my kid walk five, six, seven blocks to school or to a play date or, you know, things like that. So again, I just can't imagine if the president could actually. actually call up. Sounds like he gets along with Kathy Okl, okay, but call up J.D. Pritzker. Hey, and do what presidents always do. Hey, I'm here. How can I help you?

Can we work together? Tell me what you need. You need more cops on the street. I'm here for you. You need some National Guard around, you know, your worst places, your federal buildings. I'm here. Like, that's so easy to do. And that is a win, win.

That would be great. But he always gives away the game. And he says, these are Democrat-run cities. And some of these governors, whether it's Pritzker, Newsom, or more, are people he views as rising stars in the party, potential candidates in 2028 to run for president, perhaps a threat to his legacy. So he's always thinking about those things. Right. And the partnerships would make sense for cities that want them and need them. But what a lot of these cities have said is, we don't need New York, let's take, for example, we don't need National Guard troops in the streets of our city.

and New York City Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch said as much just the other day in a meeting with Pam Bondi, the AG. They had a 30-minute meeting, Mike, and she said, here's what we're doing in New York, here's the data, here's where we were, here's where we are now, we're in good shape, thanks, but no thanks. You know, Donald Trump's position on the National Guard inserting them into Washington, D.C., and allegedly trying to put them into places like Chicago and Baltimore, it has shades of 1968 when the Republican Party first took over law and order as an issue, and they've remained strong with that issue since 1968. Richard Nixon campaign for president talking about law and order throughout the country. Well, Mike, a big difference back then, right? I mean, how many countries, how many cities were on fire in 1968, a lot, when LBJ sent them in.

But today with the National Guard in Washington, D.C. and the threat of the National Guard in other cities, you have to feel badly for the National Guard people. Right. I mean, they didn't sign up for this. They're collecting trash around the Washington Monument. Some members of the National Guard today. They were outside of Dunkin' Dunnipy Cream. Now, if the donuts are hot, signs flash and sign me up for that dude. Well, they were in a long line of cops outside the donuts, sure.

That's not what they were hired for. Please stop that. You might. You saw. But it's big a great. It's a misuse of the National Guard. You insert them into a city where probably more likely than not, many members of that unit don't come from the District of Columbia.

They don't know the neighborhood. They don't know the players in neighborhoods from one neighborhood to another, and they're wasting their time, really. And that's why it's so important we're talking yesterday with the Mayor of Chicago about, you know, give Chicago 5,000 more cops under two circumstances, Ralph, one, train them right, and two, make sure they live in the communities. where they please. And I will say these poor National Guard people, weekend warriors, are coming in here. They don't know the areas. Like Mike said, they don't know the communities. Like,

this is, this is not what they train for, whereas you hire 5,000 cops for New York or Chicago or whatever, you train them right, and you make sure you pay them a salary where they can live in the communities that they police. That is more of a solution, right? Absolutely, which is why many of us that have dealt with this question have said, let's have police that live in the city because they know the city, their kids go to school with the people that they're policing as kids. And just like he said, he could talk to Governor Hocko, which I think is a good thing, he could have talked to Mayor Bouser in Washington, D.C., rather than cut a billion dollars out of the budget that she needed. They need their money back. I think that they need their money back,

they need the resources, and they need to have a union, which could. community. People need to understand people in the community more than anybody want to see crime down. Right. And they know that it is going down. We're not sitting up there saying protect our criminals and protect crime, but we do not need this interposition and nullification by the president of the United States. And by the way, I commend Mayor Bouser. I know a lot of people probably wanted her to scream and yell and get angry with, she's, she's held her tongue and she's continuing to try to work constructively with the President of the United States. I think that's really positive, especially for the mayor of Washington.

All right, so you're our Sherpa here. What's going on inside the White House? They guide us through the White House, and specifically, guide us through the president's brain. Like, what's going on here? Because, you know, he had a lot. That's a tall order. He's had, past four or five days have been a bit fritiginous, as John Meecham might say. What was that word?

He used intermarried. I've already lost it. It's about 20. I never can tell. About 27. He was very proud of himself. But anyway, so it's been vertiginous. But yesterday, he's very interesting, as long and as winding as this went, kind of, sort of an olive branch to Kathy Hokel. I like Kathy. Kind of like I can work with her. We're not going up there right now. He didn't do that with Chicago, but he was saying, I'm going to abide by the courts. I'm going to do with the court. What's going on with? What's going on with

the president specifically on this issue. Do you think he's realized that Chicago and New York and these other things are not legally feasible and he's going to stay with Washington, D.C., where he's at least for 30 days, unless he declares an emergency, he's pretty safe, standing on pretty good legal grounds. I mean, what I've been told from people around the president, it changes by the day how he feels about these things. Right. Yesterday, he has been receiving more counseled that it's, D.C. is different things. other cities. He has more authority there. He has the ability to have the guard there with fewer legal roadblocks than he would in other cities. I think to Willie's point, I've been told as well,

look at some of the cities he's picked on here. This is, you know, it's Los Angeles. That's Governor Gavin Newsom, potential 28, 28 contender. It's Maryland. Baltimore, Westmore. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait. I'm connecting some dots. Go ahead. We've also got J.B. Pritzker. Another potential presidential candidate. It's Illinois and Chicago. And even though Kathy Hokel, not rumored Reverend Reverend President, but she's got a reelection bid, who's she facing? Top Trump ally, at leastophonic. So there's a- Boy, she's popular. Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, who's not doing well in her district right now, but still has the president's favor.

So I think there's certainly some politics of this. It's also just bigger picture. They want to put the Democrats, they think, on the wrong side of the crime issue, even though, as you have noted and others, a lot of the cities with the highest crime rates are in red states. We've gone through the list. There also, there is anxieties about the economy. You know, some of the underlying metrics have not been great. We're seeing this push with the Fed right now. He wants interest, the rates cut.

We'll see how that plays out. Frustration on, we heard we did hear the president, again, angry yesterday about the situation in Ukraine, feeling there's no, not really close to a solution there. Angry at whom? I mean, like, at Putin? Mostly at Putin, but also there's, I'm told some frustration on the Ukraine side that they're not being realistic about some of the concessions they'll have to make up. Mainly done, Bosch?

I, e. the territory. But they have not asked Russia for much in the way of concession. at all at this point, and Europe is sort of sitting watching idly by. So there's a lot here. But at the end of the day, there's a president who is trying to expand executive power. He sees a way to do it here on a crime issue where he feels like he can be on the winning side of it. But the tenor of it changes by the day with his whims, whether or not he's winning a new cycle

or not. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, if you're going to talk about crime, Democrats are going to have to say, hey, we're okay with cops. Right, ref? We're okay with cops on the street. We want them trained right. We want to be in the community. We want to be in the community.

You've got to be able to say that. And say it loud. I mean, again, many of us that have been in the anti-police brutality movement like me wanted to see more people in the community become cops. And many did. Now we don't want to see them overruled by this incoming army that is not trained, not armed and don't want to be there. It just does not help with bringing the community and the cities together. And let's not bring out, let's not forget the string that a lot of us see in. is not only is he picking at Democrats, he's picking at blacks all the way to a black woman in the

Federal Reserve. It's no secret that everybody he throws at the red meat to his base happen to be black mayors. They can't run cities. Federal Reserve, the only black woman on the reserve. She's a mortgage fraud person, which nobody's made that allegation. So he's playing both ways of law and order and race. And it has been something that has been ugly in the American in politics for a while. So Rachel, let's talk about your latest piece of political magazine titled, Trump is leaning on crime, which you just said. Democrats need a better response and fast.

So, yeah, tell us more about what you found because as Allie was reporting back on what Democrats were excited about, what they've done over the past six months. One was a Texas redistricting move that didn't do anything. The second was Corey Booker talking. for a real long time on the Senate floor, which didn't do anything. Let's talk about crime. And the first thing I always ask is, if somebody's coming at me with an issue, how do I, you know, take the issue away from them and reply in a stronger way?

And, you know, what's the Democrats' answer to that? If they're not going to be supporting more, like Bill Clinton, 100,000 cops on the street. What's a Democrat's response? Well, you would think they would sort of use the opportunity to say, look, we're not soft on crime. You're accusing us of being soft on crime. We're not. We're going to call for more police officers. We're going to call for sort of an end to various decriminalization efforts that we've seen across the country since the 2020 George Floyd protests.

There was sort of this movement to sort of back off a number of prosecutions. Voters have shown that they do not support that movement and actually have pushed back on in Democratic areas like Portland, like New York, like Chicago. So you would think Democrats would sort of attack this issue that way. But I've got to say, you're not seeing a lot of leaders. And I mean, from a purely political standpoint, Donald Trump on this issue believes he has the upper hand. And I think you're seeing that right now. I mean, we see a lot of Democrats talking about how, oh, this is authoritarian, right? But look, voters don't like overtly partisan power grabs, sure, but there's one thing they don't like even more, and that is feeling unsafe in their

own neighborhoods. I mean, crime is a top issue for voters, especially in recent years, and it traditionally favors Republicans in their sort of tough on crime response. I mean, you guys have talked about how you think voters in New York believe crime is coming down, but if you look at polling nationwide, that is actually not the case. I mean, I was just looking at a poll yesterday, or I guess the day before when I was writing this piece, found that 70% of Americans thought crime was just as bad right now as it had been in recent years or is actually getting worse and something like 20% actually thought it was coming down. So when you think about voters and how they feel right now, Trump is really leaning in and sort of latching onto those fears, changing the

subject away from things like Medicaid cuts or, you know, the midterms being a referendum on him. He's trying to move it back to crime. And I mean, you asked panelists, does he have the authority to do this, to go to Chicago, to put the National Guard in New York, I would contend that it's not about winning this fight. It's about the fight itself. He wants to be the one to tell voters, I'm tough on crime. What are you going to do? And what Democrats are doing right now is saying, oh, you don't have the authority and crime is down. That doesn't resonate with people. You have to have specific solutions about how you're going to protect their communities. Yeah, political is Rachel Bade. Thank you so much. And you can know your later

article in Politico Online available right now. So Willie, here's the deal. It's just trying to help Democrats, you know, because I'm a nice guy. Here, I got to help Republicans if

they needed help and weren't doing what they were doing every day. They were being actually Republicans. But here's the thing. You can't just say Donald Trump's an authority. And you know, like, ah, get me scared about it. You have to say, he's acting like, like an authoritarian.

And what he's talking about doing is not going to fix your crime problems. It's not going to make your street safer. It's not going to make your kids school safer. Not going to make your walk to church safer. It's not going to do anything, but make his political base stronger.

What we need are more cops on the street. What we need is an environment that allow you to walk down on the subway and feel safe. We allow you to go into a CVS store and not have to ask a person behind the counter to get the toothpaste and the roll aids from behind the plastic, you know, separator and, you know, help people have this sense. Because when we sit here

and talk about crime rates are lower than they've been in 60 years, it sounds a lot like what I was saying and other people were saying before the election about the economy. Our economy is stronger relative to the rest of the world than any time since 1945. People don't feel it. It ain't true. I mean, if people don't feel it, as Henry Kissinger said, in politics, perceptions reality. Well, the perception right now is not caught up to where the crime rates are. Well, Carl Rove joins you in that chorus. He was warning yesterday, Democrats, be careful around this crime issue. There is a good answer to the question, like the one we asked Mayor Johnson of Chicago yesterday, and so far he hasn't heard most Democrats giving the answer,

sort of echoing what you're saying here. So David French, the question is, is then for Democrats, and you can offer some free political advice, too, if you'd like to, what is the way through this? We have heard Governor Moore, Governor Pritzker, Governor Newsom, saying we welcome partnership, we welcome more cops, we want people in our streets to feel safe, but we're not doing it his way. We're not going to have troops walking down the streets of Baltimore and Chicago and Los Angeles. I mean, you have to use the truth to blow up as narrative, and the truth is this, that people forget he, was president in 2020. And when crime really exploded, when violent crime really exploded in a way

that was terrifying and dangerous, it happened in 2020 in his presidency, his first term. Ever since 2020, I think Democrats could say, we've been dealing with the fallout and we've been trying to wrestle and bring this under control and have had a lot of success. You can look at declining crime rates in the Biden term. These declines have continued in this year. So there is, been a story of success to say he, he was in charge when this blew up and we've been dealing with the fallout ever since. And the other thing you've got to say is not just that this military deployment is authoritarian. A lot of people don't know, don't think in those terms. Another thing you can say is this military deployment is bad for the military. This is something

that is diverting it from its mission. If you think that this was the most effective way of dealing with crime, then why haven't all these red state governors called out their national guards in their cities that have much higher crime rates than many of the cities that Trump is talking about. The reason they haven't done it is because the National Guard is not a crime fighting organization. This is bad from the military. It's diverting it from its main mission. We're the ones getting crime under control after it blew up under Donald Trump and then explain to voters how you're doing it. And then one thing you have to deal with is public disorder. It's not just about armed robberies and violent crime. It's about the sense that when I'm

walking out of my, I'm on the subway or I'm in a park, are there going to be people around me? Is there going to be an atmosphere that feels dangerous around me because people are acting in a way that's out of control? And I think a lot of Democrats have underestimated just the way in which public disorder is very unsettling to people. And to make that a priority of dealing with public disorder, I think until they do that, a lot of the arguments are going to fall flat. Yeah, you know, it is very interesting what we just heard that for some reason, people forget Donald Trump was president in 2020. Why is it? Ron DeSantis, I think it was Ron DeSantis on Fox News a couple days ago, and he's talking about,

of course, Joe Biden in 2020. No, Joe Biden wasn't present in 2020. Joe Biden wasn't present when there was chaos in the streets. Joe Biden wasn't president when the American streets were more chaotic than any time since 1968. How is it that everybody, it happens all the time on right-wing talk shows. Like, yeah, in 2020, thanks Biden. Well, Joe Biden wasn't in the White House in 2020. That was Donald Trump.

Yeah, well, you know something, that's a huge issue, the national attention span. It's about a second long. People don't remember what happened last week, two weeks ago, never mind, 2020. And Trump capitalizes it. He does. But on this issue of crime, I mean, the vast majority of Americans have never been mugged, assaulted, robbed, carjacked, or attempted to be killed by someone. But they come home, they watch the TV news, their local TV news. If it bleeds, it leads.

That has never changed. If there's a murder in the area, it's going to be up there right at the top of the news. If there's a mugging, a serious mugging, a kiddapping, whatever, it's going to be right at the top of the news. But even given that, even given that sense of security that they seem to feel they're losing, the Democrats continually fail to speak to the issue in normal human terms. They really do. And again, we've gone down the list already. But really, things are so dangerous that you have to put roll aids and toothpaste and listerine behind,

plastic. I mean, because it'll be stolen. Like, people can't walk down the street again. If somebody walks down the street, let's talk about crime stats really quickly before we wrap this up. And by the way, Ron DeSantis blamed Donald Trump in, I mean, blamed Joe Biden in 2020 for shortchanging Florida in the 2020 census. But if their kid can't walk down the street without somebody coming up screaming in their face, that won't be recorded as a crime. It's unfortunately it's a poor man or woman that has middle health difficulties that are living out on the streets. That's why the services that were cut in the Republican bill are very needed. Yeah, they're needed, of course, which we've been saying now for two days.

And so they're very needed. So, but still, your child comes home and says there was a guy or a woman that was screaming at me at the top of my lungs. I got scared and then I ran and da-da-da-da-da-da. There's no sense of security there. And that's what, again, Democrats need to get their arms around that and stop saying everything's fine. You have to address the feeling of not being secure. I grew up in Brownsville, East Flatbush, Brooklyn. We had three locks on the door and a bar against the door.

And I'm out there marching, but we wanted to be safe. What the Democrats ought to be saying is, yes, crime has been a problem. We've successfully done this, but we need more help. We're glad you want to weigh in, Mr. president so we can not only cut it down to where we have we need to cut it down more bringing untrained national guardsmen that do not understand this is not the way to do it help us get more trained police that have done community policing because that's what's worked because you're absolutely right we've got to deal with crime do the Muhammad Ali strategy roper doper right lean against the rope

take the blows and say now come on now let's do this together and he will not know how to answer All right. Coming up, a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including the company that's building record profits brick by brick. We'll explain that straight ahead. And as we head to break, we'll have to wait and see it. I can't have the great tea. It's called a tease. A reminder that on Wednesday, September 10th, Joe and I will appear at the 92nd Street Y here in New York City for a conversation with Ed Luce.

Oh, my banjo? Yeah. The Financial Times about his very. timely biography. My dad. My dad or jug? Yeah. You play the jug.

Watch board. We're national security advisors speaking of Prisinski. For tickets, visit 92. com.org slash events. You're watching morning, Joe.

We'll be right back. Free Buicks for everybody to come. That's a really good idea. Yeah, I can say that. Hello, hello, hold. Willie, this is a runaway bestseller. Before you fly away.

Come on, but before you fly away, a book that made us laugh, it made us cry. It did. It took us back to our most vulnerable moments of her child. I was just showing you. That's not a joke. My wife, Christina's book before you fly away, which she self-published, was a bunch of advice. She was just literally writing to give to our daughter as she went to college and then decided to self-published, literally uploaded it to a website. Her partner in business, Todd True, designed it. It's beautiful. And it just gets printed as you ordered it. So she comes on Morning Joe with us a couple of days ago. And her book, as we sit here today, is number two on Amazon in parenting behind only Jonathan Heights. It's so good. Runaway bestseller, the anchor. She's generation. So she thanks you and thanks the audience. But it is, if you're saying goodbye to someone, it's in any way, whether they're going to college or moving away. And I love that feeling because I think every parent had it. I had it for sure. And she expressed it so well in the show where she goes,

you always wonder, did I teach them everything? Like, what's the, you're almost like crash coursing on parenting right before they leave. And this book just sort of says, it's okay. Yeah. Here's the ways you can do it. Exactly. So thank you guys. And by the way, it only took him 12 minutes, but T.J. got the cover up. It's so good. You fly away. But he got it. But he got it.

Exactly. Time now for a look at some of the other stories. And by the way, Jonathan, just a warning to you and parents watching. Yeah. Yep. Goes by now. My oldest starts high school in two weeks. It goes by just like that.

It does. He's quite a soccer store, right? He is, I will say, if I may, as a freshman, made his varsity to school's varsity. So we're excited about that. Really? Yep, he's going to high school. Our youngest is heading to middle school. We're going to be right behind you.

We're going to be right behind you. It comes fast. Okay, time now for the other headlines. The Washington Post has new reporting on dozens of FEMA employees being put on leave after signing an open letter, criticizing the agency's leadership. About 180 current and former FEMA staffers sent a letter on Monday to members of Congress and other officials arguing the current leaders. inexperience and approach harm FEMA's mission and could result in a disaster on the level of Hurricane Katrina. Last month, the administration put nearly 140 EPA employees on leave

after they sent their own letter of dissent. This feels important, guys. Jack Nicholson, Boston accent for a second there. Forma. Sorry, yeah. Flama. Nearly ruined that movie. The Departed's great Nicholson's the weakest part His accent is a wonderful movie We need to follow that Let me tell you Nicholson is one of the great actors But Mike I think you would agree as a Boston guy

It was just as cringeworthy as all those southern movies When Yankees would come and did this I would like to know Sir What you plan to do with This defendant And you know the guy grew up in Vermont You're like come on man

I don't disagree with you in Nicholson's accent, but because he's Jack Nicholson, you sort of give him a slide. He also refused, despite the fact that he's more or less playing Whitey Bulger. Yeah. Because he's Jack Nicholson, he refused to wear any Red Sox or Celtics gear because he's a Yankees and Lakers fan. Well, yeah, they said never let him in the move. Well, no. Come on. Okay.

All right, everyone, back to Whitey didn't wear his own headlines. Nobody had Whitey wear anything. Iowa Democrats. But hold on that, though. Mike, Mike, what world are we living in? where we're living in Donald Trump's world. In the past, people write those letters on FEMA. It would go through whatever.

People would not be happy. People would be called in the front office. And then there would be somebody in mid-level management that would listen to it and take it to somebody into the White House and say, yeah, listen, they're saying this. And, you know, we've let them know. We took them to the woodshed. We're not happy about it. But we have some problems.

We really need to, we really need to look into on FEMA because we don't want to get hit. We don't want, you know, we don't want our constituents get hit with a FEMA-type disaster. Well, the reality is, they just put them on leave. The reality is we now live in a world, a political world, coming out of the White House, where if you sign a letter saying, you know, this is going to be trouble. You know, you're letting this go. It's not as good as it used to be. You are dismissed.

You are sent home. Yeah. You know, you're told to go home. We had, yesterday, we showed clips of it, a three-hour and 15-minute cabinet meeting where the members of the cabinet of the President of the United States absolutely demeaned themselves. Yeah. It was so long, too. He just needs one person, actually.

Usually, most presidents have at least one person, Willie, that can say, no, no, Mr. President, no. That's, listen, I mean, I had, you know, in my little lowly deal, I had three people. And if I couldn't convince all three that I was going to do something, I didn't do it. And it made me really angry a lot of the times, and I said, well, I'm going to convince a, you know, and saved me time after time after time to not just do what I thought in the moment was the right thing to do. Right, not do something that's bad for the country, but also if you want to be selfish,

it's not bad for you politically. You need one of those truth tellers on the inside. But as Mike says, you go around that table and watch that performance. You had the Secretary of Labor, a very important job talking about, Mr. President. that we have put your big, beautiful face on the side of the Department of Labor. We invite you to come and visit. If they ever saw Jonathan Lemire at the morning Joe staff meetings, they would know how to behave.

Exactly. He throws shit at us. True, the truth teller. No, but the whole point of the second term, the whole point of the same second term is to not have that guy. In the first term, he surrounded himself with, you know, people were making recommendations. There were some old school Republican Orthodoxy, you know, adherence there.

He listened to people. This time, he didn't. want anybody but true believers. That's the entire point to not have someone telling no.