Morning Joe - ‘He doesn't get it’: Trump ‘losing his touch’ as new polling gives him lowest marks yet on economy

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

‘He doesn't get it’: Trump ‘losing his touch’ as new polling gives him lowest marks yet on economy To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That's because in my neighborhood, the bill uses dated precinct boundaries and carves up precincts with peninsulas as small as football fields. Thousands of voters in my township will need to be manually assigned a ballot and mistakes will be made. That is not what conservative stand for. Nor do we believe that the federal government should have the ability to dictate by threat or other means what should happen in our state. We are a co-equal force of government, or at least we are supposed to be. And as long as I have breath, I will use my voice to resist a federal government that attempts to bully, direct, and control this state or any state. That was Republican State Senator Spencer Deary of Indiana, explaining his vote against the

redistricting plan there. The Republican-controlled Senate voted against a bill for new congressional maps in Indiana defying President Trump's pressure campaign to do so. It comes as the man who became the face of the Trump administration's immigration practice. has been released from ICE custody. We'll bring you the latest on Kilmar-Abrego-Garcia's case. Meanwhile, Trump's Justice Department failed for the second time in two weeks to indict one of the president's perceived political enemies. New York Attorney General Lettisha James.

Plus, the president announced a pardon for one of his supporters who is in prison in Colorado. We'll explain why he can't actually do anything about the sentence. And, Willie, it is a big day for you. in studio right here. Big day for America. Yeah, who's coming? Who's coming? Anybody special? Well, I mean, like, why is it a big day? That guy. It's Friday, right? That guy right there. Oh. Your SEC player of the year, Diego Pavia, also the front-runner

to win the Heisman trophy tomorrow night. Yeah. Yeah. Diego Pavia will join us along with Vanderbilt's head coach Clark. Clark Lee. And we, you know, we're a nonpartisan show, generally speaking. But not today. Not today. Joe? Not today, Joe. Not today. He's bringing them in the studio.

I'm going to send you one, Joe. This is the get of all gets, and how exciting. And what a great way to lead into the Heisen weekend. And, you know, Willie Vanderbilt's just done an extraordinary job this year. I, you know, we thought, and before the Tennessee game, we were all talking. And I texted you later saying, yeah, you know, Clark Lee's done a great job. job this year. She'll be proud of himself and what Vandy's done. But, you know, they're not going to be Tennessee this year. That's going to come a year or two for now. I even saw it with

Nick Saban. You know, he was six and six his first year at Alabama. I was like, these things take time. By the fourth quarter, we were staring at each other going, what in the world? Like this guy, you know, he's kind of, he came to play early and it's just an extraordinary coaching job. Yeah, as you know, having grown up in the SEC, Joe, this is beyond anyone's wildest dreams, especially Vanderbilt fans. It just doesn't happen for us. But now this year it did, 10 and 2. There was a good case. They should have been in the playoff.

We can put that to the side for the moment and just celebrate. They get to play one more game. If they win their bowl game, they could finish in the top 10, could have the Heisman trophy winner, could have the next. national coach of the year. He's already the SEC coach of the year. So it has been an absolute dream season and look forward to celebrating it with those two guys in a few minutes. Oh, and it is a good

way to end the week. So along with Joe Willie and me, we have, but wait, there's more. Co-host of the rest is Politics Podcast, the BBC's Caddy Kay, and co-founders of Axis, Jim Van de High, and Mike, give it to us. Whoa! Merry Friday!

Oh, okay. A little twist. That was good. he did something special for the 558 so joe mike allen and jim in the house the quarter zip mafia joe oh my goodness it is a quarter zip mafia we have everybody outnumbered right now so we're we're going to we're going to be talking really in one second about polls but right now i can't let the the the stories uh that that we introed the show with you know i can't just not talk about the thread that goes between all of those stories, and that is that this idea cooked up, you know, in, you know, years ago that Donald Trump was going to be all commanding and all power, that there was going to be unitary executive power, you know, they cooked up at Heritage Foundation.

It's already fallen apart, and it's fallen apart because that's not the way America works. It's never been the way America works. It's never the way America will work. I mean, you have people in Indiana, Republicans, who maybe six months ago would have never dared cross Donald Trump. Or like, wait a second. Wait, wait, people elected us to represent Indiana, not to represent Donald Trump. Nobody was saying that months ago. And you're seeing that time and time again in Congress.

Peggy Newton has a column out this morning in the Wall Street Journal saying the numbers are terrible. And every time you turn on the TV, you see images that damaged Donald Trump and even his best issue. And that is, of course, immigration, but because of all of just the savage actions that are taking place by masked men. And as Peggy said, going after a man who's working his second job at a chicken processing plan and doing his best to raise his family, brutalizing him and tearing him from the country, that's not what Trump voters wanted or certainly that's not what the swing voters that put Donald Trump and Republicans in power wanted. And you're just seeing it. I don't know that I've seen numbers drop this badly for one political party as quickly as they have, but they've fallen off a cliff. Yeah, and the president's numbers on the economy are terrible cratering as well as he continues to

insist the affordability crisis is a hoax. He had his big affordability event in the Pocono. a couple of days ago and immediately attacked the idea that affordability is a real concern in this country. But back to your point, start with Indiana. What happened last thing? You're right. That's a red state and Republicans. That speech we played at the top of the show was a leading Republican in Indiana saying, no, that's not the way the system works. We don't get pressure from the top. And there was pressure to be clear from the White House, from President Trump himself, from the governor of Indiana who said, I'm going to help the president get this done in Indiana. And the representatives of the actual citizens of that state said, no, we're not actually going to do it that

way. And the vote wasn't particularly close. You know, it was embarrassing because afterward Donald Trump last night was saying, oh, I didn't really pay attention to that. I didn't try very hard. If I had, we would have gotten it through. The White House was putting pressure on him on that state on those representatives. And they said, sorry, Mr. President, not this time. Yep. And, you know, Jim Van der Heigh, again, just looking at these threads, it's amazing how quickly things are happening now. And again, there are things that should be happening because if you follow the law, if you look at tradition, if you look at the way that Washington's been run in the past, something that, of course, Donald Trump and his people wanted to break away

from as quickly as possible, you suddenly start seeing lawfare cases. You know, you see Comey, that case getting dropped, Letitia James's case getting dropped. You see Alina Haber getting booted out of her prosecutor's position by judges who say, this is not the way you do it. Same thing with Lindsay Hagen. And my gosh, you have a federal judge saying, no, what you did in Los Angeles is done with it. You know, a federal judge already ruled Marines being out there was illegal, but told them you need to get your troops. You know, the National Guard needs to stop doing what they're doing in Los Angeles. And these rulings are coming one after another, after another.

after another, a lot of times are coming from Trump appointed judges. Yeah, I think two things are true at once. Like, I don't want to overstate what, that there's this handcuffs being put on the president. He is still the most powerful president with the fewest restraints that we've seen in our lifetime. But I think you're right. I think those polls, where they start to hurt you is when little by little, and it's not massive, little by little, members of Congress start to wonder if he's a liability, not an asset. If the brand is a liability, not an asset. And right now, if you're a House Republican, you're kind of caught in a pretty tough vortex because you're looking, almost every House Republican we talk to thinks they're going to lose somewhere

between 15 and 25 seats. That means you lose the majority. So there's a belief among most Republicans will lose the House. You have a lot of them who are thinking, do I want to even be here? If I'm getting death threats and we're kind of useless as an institution right now because we kind of have to do just what the president says, do I want to even keep this job? So you've seen a lot of retirements, you're going to see more. And then you're going to have these members saying, oh my goodness, I'm looking at these polls and we're way underwater on health care. We're now way underwater on immigration. We're way underwater on affordability. We're way underwater on inflation. What do voters care about those four topics? They care about them

more than almost any other topic. And so there they have the pressure where if they want survival, survival may no longer be just standing with the president. It might be breaking with the president. And then the secret weapon that he had of MAGA doing whatever he wants and being reinforcement for his views, that place is that movement. It's just in a full meltdown. We talked about it last time I was on the show.

And it's just melting down more and more. All their energy is infighting, kind of hating on each other, even questioning. the president on things like AI. It's not supporting the president. It's not being the force multiplier that it was six months ago. So the president is in a precarious state. And you can't just send out a tweet saying, the stock market's soaring. The stock market is soaring. Most people, most of his base, doesn't have a lot of money in their 401k. Doesn't have a lot of money, discretionary money sitting in the stock market that they're waiting to inflate in price. They're worried about their wage. They're worried about their job. They're worried about prices.

that's the disconnect. All right. So with affordability, as a top concern for many Americans new polling shows, President Trump's approval on the economy is falling. According to the latest AP, an ORC poll, just 31% of Americans approve of Trump's handling of the issue. That's the lowest level recorded in Trump's first or second term. On social media yesterday, Trump pointed to Wall Street as proof the economy is thriving, writing, quote, market just hit an all-time high. When will the fake polls show that I am doing a great job on the economy and much more? And in another post, he lamented, when will I get credit for having created with no inflation, perhaps the greatest economy in the history of our country? When will people

understand what is happening? When will polls reflect the greatness of America at this point in time and how bad it was just one year ago. Caddy, when? I think Peggy Noonan points to something very smart in her column this morning, which is that the president just isn't alive, is the way she phrases it, the anxieties of American people. And even when he's there touting the stock market, which, yes, is booming.

It is what economists are calling this case-shaped economy. He's pointing to the people at the very top, but over a third of Americans don't even own stock. So they're not reassured by the fact that the thing that he touts as a success is helpful to them because they don't own shares in the stock market. And at the meantime, he's out there in the pocket-nose saying that any talk of affordability is something of a hoax and belittling it and saying that the way they should handle it anyways to buy less dolls. When Politico had that great survey of the economy recently, Americans are anxious about everything from their missing health care trips, they're missing prescription drugs. They're skipping them because the prices are too high. They don't want to take a flight for a holiday to see their family because they can't afford it.

So there is a real crisis of people in the bottom third of American economy who don't own shares, not being able to afford things. And to hear the president say, this is just, you know, this is a hoax. You're making it up. Democrats are making it up. His inability to empathize with the American voters. is probably his weakest point. It's that's going to be a problem for him going forward if people are going to carry on feeling this.

And those 35 Democrats, Republicans, who won their seats by less than 13 points, they know what that means for them going into the midterm elections. They know what that disconnect actually means in terms of votes for them. That's such a great point by Katty, Mika. And it reminds me of what Peter Baker with the New York Times said yesterday. He said Bill Clinton was able to say,

say to Americans, I feel your pain. They believed him. He was extraordinarily successful as a politician for decades because of that. And Peter said that Donald Trump doesn't feel their pain. He's like, I feel your anger. And when that anger was turned against the others, the enemies, the whomever, the Somalis, the whatever, you know, when he could turn the anger against, quote, the others, so everybody would blame the others. That was one thing. Now, his problem is, we have a divided economy. You have the top 10% of Americans that account for over 50% of our GDP this past year. So if the GDP's doing well, if the stock market's doing well, you can bet that with really only seven stocks, seven tech stocks accounting for the overwhelming majority of

the gains over this past year and really just one or two stocks, that working Americans, middle Americans, middle class Americans who are struggling to get by, they're not feeling that part of the GDP. And so Donald Trump can't feel their pain and has never claimed to feel their pain, but the anger is directed where at the billionaires, that are taking all the money. Voters anger is directed it at the monopolist, at the multinational corporations, is at the big health insurance companies that are denying their mother and father's claims for health care for things that the doctor ordered up. So that's where the anger is going. And that's why there's this massive disconnect right now. Yes, the stock market's doing great.

And yes, there are a lot of billionaires that are doing nothing, that are playing golf or out on their and they're making millions and millions of dollars every day because tech stocks, you know, are exploding. And they go to the country parties at Mar-a-Lago. Yeah, but that ain't helping the people who need the most help right now. No, and Willie, the other that Donald Trump in terms of the economy uses for the anger part, the anger part of the equation that Joe was talking about, is Joe Biden. And I think we're getting to a point where that falls flat.

Yeah, and polling shows that too. Yeah. Some believe it should have been in the first place. That AP poll that you referenced earlier, two-thirds of Americans. All Americans say the economy is poor. Donald Trump has a 31% approval on the economy. And to that, he writes last night, when will you ungrateful robs understand all I've done for you?

He doesn't get it. And that's what Peggy Noonan, and as we mentioned, is writing about in the Wall Street Journal. Her column is titled, Trump may be losing his touch. Peggy writes, Donald Trump and his tumult, nearly 11 months in, he's a rocket going not up, but sideways or down. All polls say down. On Thursday, APNORC reported his approval on the economy and immigration has fallen substantially since the spring, with 31% of Americans approving his handling of economic matters down from 40% in March, and his approval on immigration at 38% down from 49%. Recent Democratic sweeps in New Jersey and Virginia and this week's Miami, Ami mayoral race make 2026 look distinctly blue-tinged. What happens when you lose your great issue?

What happens when all the remains of that issue is its least popular aspect? Immigration remains in the news only because of brutal deportation practices. It isn't build the wall anymore. It's don't arrest the poor guy working the line in a second job at the chicken processing plant. Americans don't want that guy thrown out. The longer the deportations continue, the more unpopular. and damaging to the administration they will become. Mike Allen, that's Peggy Noonan writing in the Wall Street Journal this morning.

And polling backs up what she says, that even if you talk to voters, supporters of Donald Trump coming out of that rally the other night, whether it's to our reporters or New York Times reporters or yours, they're saying, hmm, he doesn't understand our lives. That's exactly right, Willie. Something that President Biden found on affordability, something that President Trump is finding is you can't tell people are wrong about how they feel. And that's why you can pound the table about the stock market all you want. But that's why you see in this poll, since March, down 10 points on the economy. Trump down 10 points on crime. Trump down 10 points on immigration.

The only issue where he still is well is specifically border security, where he's down Five. But people, including Republicans, especially independents, seeing these, the word you said at the top was perfect, the images of what's happening. And that's what is making people say this isn't what we voted for. All right. A lot to get to. Still ahead on Morning Joe, the administration tries and once again fails to indict one of President Trump's perceived political foes. Plus, we'll get into Jonathan Lemire's latest report. on Ukraine's recent attacks on Russia and why he says they showcase Keeves' desperation. And as we go to break, a quick look at the Travelers' Forecast this morning from Accuethers, Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking this morning? Mika, let's start off with the good weather news today.

Your exclusive ACU of the forecast showing sunshine, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami today. But the cold continues to be locked into the northeast. Less wind today, but still windy, Boston, New York City. Watch the snow from Charleston to Ward Cincinnati this morning and get ready. The first accumulating snow Saturday night from Philadelphia, New York City to Boston. Still some delays in Boston and New York City due to wind. To help you make the best decisions and be more in the note, download the Ackyweather app today, and as always, enjoy the view.

Touch me. Take me to that other place. Teach me, boy. I know I'm not a lover's place. Hill as the sun has yet to come up over Washington on this Friday morning. The Trump administration has once again failed to secure an indictment against New York Attorney General Letitia James. This marks the third unsuccessful attempt by the Department of Justice to prosecute James over allegations of mortgage fraud, which the New York AG and perceived political foe of the president denies. First, the charges were dismissed after a judge ruled that Lindsey Halligan, President Trump's hand-picked prosecutor in the case, was unlawfully appointed. Then, just last week,

a federal grand jury in Norfolk, Virginia declined to indict. And yesterday, for the third time in seven days, a grand jury in Alexandria refused to request to return charges. Abby Lowell, an attorney for James writes, quote, this unprecedented. Rejection makes even clearer that this case should never have seen the light of day. Any further attempt to revive these discredited charges would be a mockery of our system of justice. So, Joe, the third time was not the charm. Does the administration keep going? If they want to keep losing, they do.

I mean, their problem is it. They're not even getting out of the box. Even if they get out of the box, they would end up losing. because Jonathan will mirror, let's bring you in here, because we all remember the president meant to send a direct message to the attorney general reportedly. It ended up going out saying, basically, here's my enemy's list, hurry up, get it done. It's so hilarious that all of these people in Maga World, and it's hilarious that all of these so-called reporters that were screaming and yelling at lawfare about lawfare during Joe Biden's term would sit

here and watch the crudest, most transparently political form of lawfare that we've ever seen in America. And yet it goes out there and just in, you know, sunlight's the best disinfectant. These cases, this law, these prosecutions got out and they withered in the sunlight. light. Yeah, and let's remember, I think you had similar conversations with those in the White House early in this term. We're like, no, no, no, the president's, he's not focused on retribution. Yeah, that was just a talk about the campaign. He doesn't, he doesn't really mean it. That's not going to happen. And about, you know, over the summer, well, that changed with a couple different efforts, but those efforts to this point have been faltering. We have seen the case against

former FBI director Comey fall apart. We have seen this one against Attorney General Letitia James of New York State, three different times now, come up short. They don't seem to be stopping in terms of they keep talking now. Whether it's Adam Schiff or Eric Swalwell or John Brennan, there's a lot of names out there in the ether that they have started the process against or keep talking about. But it's not clear that this is something that the president will abandon. But I think we should also just note, you know, if we've talked a lot on this show in the last couple weeks about the president focusing on the wrong things, his voters want to talk

to him to talk about affordability and other issues like that. this here is not making any Americans' lives better, other than being cheered by the small quarter of that Maga base who wants to see this sort of bloodlust, Mika. You know, this is something where, again... What point is it harassment, though? Right, at certain... Yeah, of course.

And, like, just the legal case of themselves keep falling apart for reasons because they're so weak. But it's another, I'd argue, another example of the president looking out of touch for what Americans actually want. Why are you focused on this and not doing something to make our lives better? So, on the same note,

Calmar Abrago Garcia is back at home with his family in Maryland after a judge ordered his release yesterday from an immigration detention center in Pennsylvania. Now, he's the man the Trump administration deported to that notoriously brutal prison in El Salvador back in March, admitting that it was by mistake. But there are concerns this morning. He won't be out of custody for long.

MS now reporter Nick McCool has the ruling from the judge. This morning, the new images, Kilmar Obrego-Garcia freed from immigration detention after months in custody. U.S. District Judge Paula Zinnis granting his request for release, saying the Trump administration has been holding Obrigo-Garcia absent a lawful removal order. The government, rather than being forthcoming with the courts, has played hide the ball. And in the end, the court decided that the errors were so egregious that in the absence of a valid deportation order. It was time to release Mr. Abrago Garcia from custody. In a statement, Abrago Garcia's attorney Simon Sandoval Motionberg saying in part, today's ruling is a powerful

affirmation that the rule of law still matters. Mr. Abrago Garcia has endured more than anyone should ever have to. But the Trump administration is promising to continue the fight. The White House, the administration opposed this activism from a judge. Abrago Garcia is present in our country illegally. He is a proven human trafficker. He is a proven gang member. Abrago Garcia, a citizen of El Salvador, who was not a legal resident of the U.S., was deported to his home country in March, held for a time at the notorious Seacot prison, despite an immigration court order forbidding his return there for his own safety. The Trump administration acknowledging an administrative error. Bring him back, show everybody how horrible this guy is.

But upon his Supreme Court mandated return in June, the Justice Department then announcing human smuggling charges against him, tied to a 22 traffic stop in Tennessee that did not result in any charges at the time. He made over 100 trips. The grand jury found smuggling people throughout our country, MS-13 members, violent gang, terrorist organization members. Abrago Garcia pleading not guilty and released on bombs. but just three days later, detained again.

The Trump administration floating plans to deport him to a string of African countries, while Costa Rica said it would accept him, and Ibrigo Garcia agreed to voluntarily relocate there. His lawyers have indicated he would accept that outcome, but the government seems firmly convicted that it wants to send him into a more dangerous setting. The Trump administration now faced with a choice, prosecute him in the U.S., or revive efforts to deport him. There's strong evidence that that's a vindictive prosecution. And so if the government were to end that criminal case, it would then be free to put Abrago Garcia back into deportation proceedings. The puzzler is why the government hasn't just done that.

And guys, in a critical part of this ruling, Judge Zinnis, going after the Trump administration, saying they, quote, affirmatively misled her about the countries that were options for his deportation, claiming Costa Rica would not take him in, despite that country. saying they would. As for the criminal case in Tennessee, that trial is set to begin next month. Back to you. All right, Nick McCool reporting there, Nick, thanks so much. So Caddy Kay, the judge who ordered Abrago Garcia's release yesterday, said that his deportation was not consistent with due process. We heard from the White House podium yesterday stated as a matter of fact that he's an MS-13 gang member and a human trafficker. He denies that and has no criminal convictions. If they believe that's true, they could put him through a process. and seek conviction, but that's not what they've done.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is what we're seeing, right? Time and again, Willie, in these deportation cases, is the key word in due process is process, that there is a process that the government should be following, and it's not following it. And if it were following it, this could be resolved. They could either go through the process, and they would win the case, and they would determine where he could go for, or they could go along with these deportation proceedings to Costa Rica, which have been agreed on both sides. So why are they holding him?

Why are they not doing this? Look, there isn't a feeling at the moment there is a certain amount of chaos in the administration, whether it's in the State Department or the DOJ. People are understaffed. There is a political agenda

which is clashing up against the process agenda, which is causing more confusion and more chaos. But it looks like a bit of a shambles, this one. And there is a clear outcome. There is something that the government could do. if it followed the due process, which is what it's not doing on these deportation cases,

which is why, okay, we have in this case somebody who is here illegally who is an alleged gang member, but in other cases you have citizens and legal residents who are also being threatened with deportations because the process isn't being followed. And these ICE operations themselves, some of them are quite violent and cruel. So down the line, it's almost a fire hose of potential unlawful actions being characterized. out by many people who are following this new, I'll put it in quotes, policy. President Trump has signed an executive order limiting state's power to regulate artificial intelligence, creating a national framework to keep the U.S. competitive.

The order launches an AI litigation task force, threatens funding cuts for states that mandate altered AI outputs and calls for a federal law overriding most. state rules. Supporters say it's key to counter China, while critics call on an assault on states' rights with legal battles expected. Now, Jim and Mike, your latest piece for Axis earlier this week was focused on this issue, and what you described as President Trump's bet on artificial intelligence. So tell us about it and what's happening here. Yeah, I mean, he's all in on AI. If you look at who he's with, these events, if you look at who he socializes with, if you look at who he talks to,

and if you look who's probably the biggest beneficiary of his policies, it's the AI companies. And there's a certain logic that we do have this technological war that ultimately, I think, will dictate war itself in terms of who gets to the best AI, the fastest. But there's another side to this, and this is the one that the administration is largely ignored, which is it's going to have an effect on jobs. If you start to automate things, somebody, at least in the short term, suffers from that. And what you see here is the president, David Sacks, saying, listen, we need unfettered regulation. We need these companies to be able to move as fast as possible. We don't

want states to get in the way, despite the fact that we have a federal system, despite the fact that states do have the right to regulate different companies on their terms in their states. The danger there, and this is the one that really puts them at odds with MAGA, with your Steve Bannon's of the world, is that the people who could suffer could be the working class, could be a lot of people who voted for Trump, who might lose their job or who feel threatened by it. And I think that's the bet. If they're wrong, and right now, if you looked at AI as a political candidate, it's as unpopular as a lot of the president's policies on the economy or the inflation. People are very worried about it. And so he is betting not just his presidency on it. I think the Republican

brand because Republicans have had to fall in line. Yeah, we wrote about some polling from swing states. And opposition to AI is the new bipartisan. an issue. And this is another place where where people feel matters. And AI is ultimately going to be opportunity for a lot of people. But right now, people are saying, I'm afraid that it's going to raise my energy, electricity bill, because of data centers. In some states, I'm already seeing that. I'm worried about my job. I'm worried about surveillance. And they don't yet see or feel that opportunity. And that's where you get Steve Bannon, a lot of the MAGA, hardcore saying the brolegarchs are weeding the president astray and that he's going to be in a

bad place for his base and for a lot of America. The economy is basically three pieces now. It's the have, the have-nots and they have lots. And the have-lots are anybody who's heavily invested in AI or building one of these companies or an adjacent company. If you're in that batch, Joe was talking about it earlier. That's what's popping up the economy. and the S&P 500, you're getting rich as hell right now.

And if you're in the stock market, like Trump is right, the stock market is booming. There's parts of the economy that are extraordinarily strong. Other countries, they envy what we have. But where you see the pain, where you see the angst, is with people who are not heavily invested in the stock market, who aren't benefiting from AI, and in fact, could suffer from AI. And that is going to be, I think, the topic of next year. I would pay a lot of attention to this.

I think it will dominate who ultimately wins the election. Co-founders of Axis, Jim Vandahai, and Mike Allen. Happy Friday. Happy weekend. Thank you very much. You can read their latest piece entitled Trump Betts Party, Presidency on AI, and it's online now. Joe. Yeah, and you know, Jonathan Lemire, we're talking about the president's problem with working Americans. And, of course, they were talking about their base. Just think about how this lays out with the president embracing AI, stopping States from doing anything to maybe blunt some of the harsher impact of this, this extraordinary revolution. I mean, Americans are worried about jobs, and they've seen already with their kids that a lot of younger Americans aren't getting jobs right now, in large part. A.I. is taking a lot of

that blame. Number two, they talked about privacy. There's a real problem with privacy, and privacy fears that AI is going to erase a lot of privacy rights. But the third, and the thing we started to hear in Mikey Sherald's campaign and also in Abigail Spamberger's campaign, energy costs. The fact that these processing plants are causing energy costs to skyrocket. You're going to hear a lot of Democrats saying the same things that those two said, which is make people who consume massive amounts of energy, pay for their own energy, and not pass it on to you. But that's what's happening right now. The richest people on the planet are building all of these processing plants and who's paying for it disproportionately per capita, it's working class Americans who aren't making a dime

out of the AI revolution. Yeah, I think this is going to be a growing political talking point as we barrel into the midterms. We say a lot, AI is the future. Well, AI is now the present. It's here. It's here. And we're all sort of dealing with it. And there does seem to be a lack of understanding, at least so far, from the people around President Trump, about what that's going to mean for American jobs in the short term. Maybe there'll be big benefits down the road. But right now, that's harder to see for a lot of people who are suddenly staring at like, wait a minute, I'm not not get a job. And as Joe, as you've been on, you and Mika have been saying four months now, these impending college graduates who are coming out and realizing there's nothing. There's no jobs to be had.

There are a lot of reasons for that. But AI is one of them. And that's only going to increase in the years to come. And in the short term, Willie, there is the matter of electrical bills. Like we had, as Joe said, Governor Lex Cheryl talk about that. It's more Democrats are saying, like, look, why would I be paying for something I'm not, not benefit from? You know, yeah, Elon Musk can talk about building data centers in space. Well, that feels like a long ways off.

Like right now, this is doing more harm than good. Groceries, health care, and not talked about enough power bills. Yeah, that's hitting people hard. Speaking of power, we got a lot of it coming up next. College football's top award, the Heisman Trophy. We'll be getting out tomorrow night right here in New York, and we are lucky to have one of the finalists with us this morning, Vanderbiltz superstar quarterback, the SEC player of the year.

Diego Pavia here with the SEC coach of the year. Clark Lee, straight ahead on Morning Joe. song the other night at this The number one tied in on the draft boards QB Ron Pavia again He's free Touchdown Diego Pavia What is

On pace to be the most successful season In Vanderbilt history and individually An exclamation point For the Commodore quarterback Hit the pose, Diego. That's Vanderbilt quarterback Diego Pavia, striking the Heisman pose after running for a touchdown in Knoxville in the Commodores, 45 to 24 whoopin of Tennessee on the road. Vanderbilt reached 10 wins for the first time in program history this year. Ten wins in the regular season behind that stellar play from Pavia already earned him the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award given to the nation's top quarterback.

He also was voted SEC offensive player of the year this week. And now, eyeing the Heisman trophy as a finalist for college football's top honor. The winner will be announced at a ceremony tomorrow night in New York City. And Diego, we are so excited, joins us now in studio along with Vanderbilt football coach, Clark Lee, who just signed a six-year extension with the school and was named SEC Coach of the year for the second consecutive season. Fellas, it's great to see in New York. I see you in Nashville. We see it the games.

It's good to have you up here on this occasion. It's good to be here. And I think this is maybe a little more intense than when you're hanging out at our walkthrough. I love those walking. You guys are pretty focused. We get in it. We get a preview of what we're going to see. Diego, congrats on just an absolutely incredible season.

It's been so fun to watch you, to see what you've done for our program. You've talked about some of these things in the off season and maybe some people thought you were crazy. Like, we should contend for a national championship. And we did that you should maybe win the Heisman championship. and you might. So how does it feel now to have done all the things you said you were going to do

and sit in here with a real shot tomorrow? Well, I think it was a big team effort this year. I just knew the talent that we had in the, what was it, like the month before, like in June and July.

And a lot of people doubted us and we just went out there and proved ourselves. And we got a lot of underdogs on the team, you know, people who, Richie Hoskins was translated from a D3,

Eli Stowers, who no one wanted him out of the Texas A&M. And we just really, that's just to name a few guys, but we all just came here to prove a point. And we wanted the college football playoffs. But now we're focused on the bowl game. We're super excited to play Iowa.

I was thinking, like, when people ask what's changed there, and this goes for both of you, which is just the mentality. I've been, I got to Vanity in 93, a little bit older than you, Clark. And so I've been a Vanderbilt fan for 33 seasons, I think it is. And it was always, we knew who we were in the SEC. Bannerbilt, maybe steal a couple of SEC wins. Maybe you win your non-conference games, get to six wins, and get to a bowl. And what you both have said is, no, no, you should expect something else.

And you, I think in particular, Diego, coming from outside the SEC, didn't have that mentality. You said, why not us? And here we are. So did that kind of, was that your thinking these last couple of years? I feel like my whole life I've been an underdog, you know, and I still will have the underdog mentality everywhere I go. And so for me, it was just proven a point. Because a lot of people when I got here to Vanderbilt were like, or in the recruiting process, where, hey, don't go to Vanderbilt, late in the fourth quarter when you guys are getting blown out,

it's going to be a pass rush, you're going to have to throw the football the whole time. And it was a lot of doubt, you know, and I kind of like to prove the haters wrong. But, yeah, I mean, our O-LON was terrific this year. I mean, they should have won the Joe Moore Award, but we know what weighs into that. So it'll be good. So, Coach, I'll let you talk about Diego here on the eve of the high-spin trophy ceremony, what he's meant to this team, but really the program. program and our school.

Yeah, I think, I think, and to go back maybe to this idea of changing the mentality of the program, I think what on the surface seems like it happened overnight has been five years of blood and guts, you know, and just the trajectory of the program and some of the foundational things we've done lined up perfectly with Diego coming in, along with some other guys, too, and he mentioned that. I mean, this is a game where no one can do it on their own, but we have the best player in the country taking the snap, and that gives us a chance every time we line up. I think to talk about Diego in terms of the statistics, which, you know, he's proven to be the best of the best that way, that's one thing to talk about him in terms of the performance.

I mean, the way he improvises and the plays he makes that really make him one of one in my mind in terms of what he can do on the field, that's another thing. But to me, his greatest attribute and contribution to our program is the emotional part of it, the leadership part of it, the connection part of it. And that's a lot of times unseen, but I think it's just watching the clip leading in. I mean, we're having a lot of fun, you know, and that's the spirit, the energy, the enthusiasm we want to play with. The Vanderbilt needs to play with. And Willie, you experienced it this year. But that's actually rippled out into Commodore Nation into our stadium. It feels like a party on West End now.

And I credit Diego a lot for that because he's authentic to he is. He makes the connections. We have a lot of fun in preparation so we can go out on Saturday. And that swagger is contagious. I think I said to you, even after the thing, one of the things you've changed is the, we never felt like we were out of a game because of both, even that Texas game, the first half was kind of tough. And that's the game where Vandy fans either leave the stadium or turn it off.

And I was like, let's hang in for a little bit. Let's see what happens. And we were one on sidekick away. And I know you would have gone out of driven won that game. But like, you don't give up, Diego. And I think that's part of what inspires Vanderbilt fans. And we appreciate that. Well, I appreciate you guys.

guys. And I think that's through the whole team. It's like everyone, the O-line is like, because I remember that Texas game. It was like, hey, we got you. We got you. Let's keep going. And obviously I had the turnover early. And they were just like, hey, we got you. Keep going. And so that's what motivates me too. We were talking about the playoff. I think all of us at this table thing. We should have been in the playoff. That's an argument for another day. But I want to talk about why we love Mika, Coach Lee, is the way he handled this. We've heard other programs spend the last week complaining that they should again. run in holding press conferences complaining about that. Will you talk about that? I do. There's a couple different teams, the sense of entitlement that's there. Here's how Coach Lee handled that at his news conference. Coach, how do you reconcile with the criteria through which the field was selected now that it's official today?

You know, I don't know that I have a great answer for that right now. the committee has a really challenging job and I think there's going to be a lot of great conversation constructive conversation to all seasons say you know how do we how do we shape this in a form that really resembles the way the games evolved I mean you know it's it's hard

we're adapting systems as we move that's challenging and you know we happen to be on the the wrong side of that in this in this moment but that look that's no one's fault except for our own you know we had our opportunities and we didn't do enough and so that that's the you know we we are not victims in this process we're our ownership is in is in coming up short i think it it's a reminder of how critical every moment is every snap every possession and there's a lot to learn in this season because we want to be back in these moments

Joe, leadership, accountability, class, no whining. That's a winner. That's a winner right there. I mean, I've got to say, of course, we won't mention their names, but I mean, when you go out whining afterwards and say you're not going to play in a bowl game, that's a problem. I understand everybody's coach, everybody's thinking, well, what does Joe Scarborough think as far as coaching goes when he coached JV football and a high school football for two years? I told my players after a game when they were whining about a bad penalty call,

I go, play, you know, well enough, play strong enough. Then they can't take it away with one call or two calls. I want to hear Alabama fans whining last year about SMU. You know what happens when you lose games? You then give the committee the power to do it. All that said, Vandy is easily one of the 12 best teams in America

and it's college football fans that are being shortchanged by not having you guys and Notre Dame and Texas in the playoffs. I mean, I understand. I love what you said. I completely agree with it. That's how winners like you think. That said, how do we fix this system? So as Coach Saban said last year, we have a playoff system that actually has the 12 best teams playing,

which I put Vanderbilt easily. And I think most people put Vandy in the game. the top 12. Well, coming from an Alabama guy, that means a lot, Joe, so I appreciate that. You know, I think, first of all, you know, we had I known the love that Vanderbilt got here, we would have come a lot sooner. This is pretty cool. Yeah.

We have a lot of work to do on that. I think the goal is, you know, whether it's 12 best, 16, this 12 best or 16 best teams get to fight it out. And obviously, I mean, you know, Diego and I and the team believe that. that if we were given the opportunity that, you know, we were going to do some damage in that playoff. But again, my overarching point to myself, to the team, and then to the world was just like we didn't do enough.

There wasn't enough there. And I think that's the truth. It's our responsibility to go above and beyond in the proof. And, you know, I think we need to take a look at how we handle automatic qualifiers. That becomes, I think, a big part of the conversation. And trying to get rid of these kind of like, again, the automatic bids into the tournament so that we can have a selection process. I think then you turn to, you know, how much is that selection process human-driven,

subjective versus being objective and data-driven. The more that we can take emotion out of it and allegiance out of it, the closer we're going to get to something that resembles really the greatness of our game. And I don't think there would be a better spectacle than a 16-team playoff with the 16 best teams in the country. I mean, I think everyone's going to get behind that. So we got a lot of work to do on that, but that's an all-season conversation. Right now, we're focused on the ReliQuest Bowl in Tampa and sending these guys out the right way and getting to 11 wins.

Yeah, Willie, I'll let you ask the next leading question about why Vandy should be in the playoffs and why they could take it all the way. But just let me read the teams they've played, unlike a certain independent team that's going around whining every day about them not being in it, That team did not play Alabama, LSU, Missouri, Texas, Tennessee, even Auburn, even Auburn. I mean, there's six tough games that, you know, there's no doubt if Vandy were an independent team themselves, they'd be in the playoffs. So the question is, how long are SEC teams like Texas and Vanderbilt going to be punished for playing the toughest schedules in America? Yeah, I mean, even that South Carolina game at the beginning of the year,

they were ranked 11th in the country, expect to have a great season. And the reason they're not ranked anymore is because Vanderil knocked them out. That's the way it works. But that's a whole long conversation we could talk about later. Before I let you go, Diego, just want to thank you for everything you've done for our program and for our university, the excitement you've built around it. I know what it's been like for me and my friends and my family and everybody in this Commodore nation. What has this year, really these last two years, going back to the Alabama,

game. Sorry, Joe. What has it been like for you from the inside to with Coach Lee build this thing and feel national excitement around this team? It's been a blessing. This has probably been the funnest two years of my life. And I think just the brotherhood that we have at Vanderbilt, the football community is going to be, you know, something so special. We're all going to come back one day. We're all going to visit Vanderbilt again and reflect on all the memories that we had at Vanderbilt. But that, like, those close-knit guys that we hang out, like, everyone hangs out every single day. Like, it's, uh, KT texted me yesterday. Um, and I was like, hey, sorry, I'm traveling, you know, he can't kick it or whatever. T5, I'm going to miss those guys. The old line,

like the old line's coming out here to support me, you know, and that doesn't happen often, but I'm just saying, like, we're going to forever be a brotherhood here. And so I just want to see Vanderbilt continue to win, and I know we will with Coach Lee leading him. All right. What you've done is build a foundation forever. This man deserves the Heisman Trophy. Everybody gets your shirts out. Only power conference player over 4,000 yards.

The other guys are good. They can throw the ball well, but they can't run it like him. Congratulations on a great season. Good luck tomorrow. If you don't win it, it doesn't matter because the impact you've left is forever. They're going to build a statue of you, man. Thank you, Diego. Thank you.

I appreciate that. Thank you, too. In for the long haul. Thank you. All right, guys.