Morning Joe - Hundreds of flights canceled as FAA reductions take effect

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Hundreds of flights canceled as FAA reductions take effect Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The shutdown has already wreaked havoc on air travel, and that havoc is about to get even reekier because air traffic controllers aren't being paid. As a result, many of them aren't showing up to work. So many, in fact, that the FAA is forcing airlines to cut 10% of their flights at the nation's buses at the nation's bus. So, yeah, unfortunately, maybe time to try your new favorite airline, the bus. You know their slogan, the bathroom door, stuck open.

There will be far fewer options for travelers this weekend. Airlines have already started slashing their schedules. That comes as now we are less than three weeks away from Thanksgiving in the busiest travel days of the year. Meanwhile, President Trump continues to claim

that Republicans are the party of affordability, but that wasn't reflected in Tuesday's election results. We'll go through and fact check. His latest attempt to reclaim that issue. And we'll show you the president's reaction to Nancy Pelosi announcing she'll retire from Congress. If you were expecting class, you didn't get it. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, November 7th. I'm Jonathan Lemire. Thanks for being with us.

Joining me is U.S. special correspondent for BBC News and the host of the rest is politics podcast, Caddy K. Katty, we are now the real world implications of the government shutdown, which is now extended beyond a month, it's the second longest in U.S. history, are starting to really add up. The SNAP benefits, of course, expire it, and now in a matter of the courts, government employees, not getting paychecks.

And the air traffic control issues have been growing in the last couple of weeks, but they will arrive in full force this weekend. A lot of travelers across the country, red states and blue, are really going to feel the pain. Yeah, I'm just thinking my daughter, who I know is traveling.

traveling this weekend and a couple of other friends who are trying to get to weddings this weekend. And you already feel bad for them because you don't know how it's going to happen. And then, of course, those snap benefits, Jonathan, at the same day, we get the news that suddenly Elon Musk is going to get a trillion dollars and become a trillionaire. It's a weird juxtaposition moment and I can be well sure that lots of people are noticing. Some people are making an awful lot of money. Some people are literally not managing to get their food stamps. Okay, so starting today, the Federal Aviation Administration is mandating up to a 10% cut in domestic flights at dozens of the nation's busiest airports. Major hubs affected include airports in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta and Dallas, with thousands of daily flights at risk.

The disruptions are expected to ripple across domestic travel just ahead of this busy holiday season. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said this week the decision was made out of concern for safety due to staffing, shortages as air traffic controllers go unpaid while the government remains closed. Meanwhile, as we were saying, a federal judge has ordered the Trump administration to release full funding for November food stamps for roughly 42 million low-income Americans by today. After criticizing it for delaying aid during the shutdown, the judge rebuked the administration for causing, quote, irreparable harm to Americans, including 16 million children by failing to, to fund the program and said it was unacceptable to delay payments any further. But the Justice

Department told the court it would appeal the ruling. Stoking fears that Americans would not receive full benefits to purchase groceries this month. I think this is the moment, right, Jonathan, when people start to feel it at the airports, they start to feel it in their pockets, they start to feel it in their grocery cabinets when they can't fill those either. Maybe that puts pressure on some kind of resolution. Yeah, it seemed like for a few weeks, the shutdown was sort of moving in slow motion. It wasn't even the top story every morning here. It has now arrived. This is what people are talking about. This is what people are feeling. And it all comes as President Trump continues to pressure Republicans into eliminating the filibuster

as a way to end the government shutdown. In a post on true social, Trump wrote that the Democrats will terminate the filibuster in the first hour if and when they assume control or power. Republicans have what the Democrats want. We should do it now and have the greatest three years in history, exclamation point. This comes as Trump admits that Tuesday's election has put pressure on Republicans to end the shutdown. But Senate Majority Leader John Thune has repeatedly indicated that ending the filibuster is a non-starter with a majority of Senate Republicans opposed, warning that it is a move that will only help Democrats in the long run. Let's now bring in to discuss managing editor at the bulwark, Sam Stein, contributing writer for

the Atlantic and MSNBC political analyst Eugene Robinson, and President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haas. Richard is also the author of the weekly newsletter, Home and Away, available on Substack. A great group. Thank you all for joining us. Sam, I will start with you. To what Katty and I have been saying here, this does feel like the moment where the government shutdown is really impacting more and more Americans and the political pressure clearly mounting

on Republicans. You know, I wrote for the Atlantic last night that there had been some momentum earlier in the week before the election, maybe towards a deal. And look, some quiet negotiations in the Senate are still taking place. But the results here have emboldened Democrats to stand firm, many of them believe, say, look, we're winning this. People are respecting how the stand we're taking, and Republicans, Trump himself even acknowledging, are on the losing end of it. Of course, the president won't take any personal blame. Yeah, there's a number of cross currents here, right? Trump's outwardly saying Republicans are losing the shutdown fight and therefore need to eliminate

the filibuster, but the first part is the most important part, which is he's acknowledging that they're getting bested politically. And if you talk to Democrats now, they do feel emboldened, frankly. They believe that Tuesday night was an affirmation of what they're trying to do, which is to focus the conversation back on affordability and costs and Obamacare subsidies, and they don't see a particular reason at this juncture to cut a deal that doesn't address at least some of that. Now, that doesn't mean that they're not, you know, queasy a little bit with what's going on. Obviously, they want to see, you know, they want to see the subsidies resolved. But they also recognize that people going hungry because a lapse of snap benefits is no good for anybody. And so what you have now is them trying to figure out what the right off-ramp is, and you have Republicans trying to figure out what can they actually get away with. And, Gene, you know, I look at this. I have to admit, early on, I thought that Democrats would have folded a lot quicker because maybe that's just in their DNA. But they do seem to be emboldened by the political moment. I think Tuesday's election result was affirmation for them. What are your sort of takeaways from how the Democratic Party is approaching us in the past couple weeks?

Well, look at the Democrats' motivation, right? Both the stick and the carrot. The Democratic base had been just hankering for them to fight. They've been demanding that they fight the Trump administration and the Republicans on something, on anything. And here is this huge issue. health care, health care costs about to rise or rising now substantially, hugely for a lot of Americans. And then the carrot is look at two-stage results. I mean, look at what happens. This has been a political winner for the Democrats so far. You can't argue that it has hurt them

at all. And you can certainly argue that it's helped them a lot. And so what's the They're incentive. On the one hand, you've got the Democrats saying, you know, health care. We have to give people health care. On the other hand, you have Republican saying clean CR. What is a clean C. You know, I mean, those don't resonate the same way. I will just add Jonathan to Jonathan. I will just add the other thing is that you have this dichotomy, it's juxtaposition of them fighting for these issues. And Elon Musk getting this massive payout package. And Donald Trump seemingly obsessed with how much gold trimming he can put on his ballroom. It doesn't, it doesn't help that. Republicans have to deal with this in the backdrop. Yeah, the optics here are extraordinarily bad for Republicans. We saw, again, the shots of the Oval Office yesterday, just festooned with gold everywhere. We know that President Trump knocked down the entire east wing of the White House to put up a ballroom for wealthy donors predominantly. And now, you know, Elon Musk is not part of the government anymore. The fact that he's going to receive a one trillion dollar pay package

At a time when so many Americans are hurting, Musk, of course, associated so closely with Trump these days, that doesn't help their chances, their optics either, Richard Haas. Clean CR, by the way, the name of Sam Stein's fantasy football team, struggling so far in this year. But let's talk about the number of times where Republicans in this term, this Trump term, have defied him are, you can count on one, you know, on one, figures on one hand.

But this is a moment, at least for now, where Senate Majority Leader Thune and others are saying no. Like, actually blowing up the filibuster is a bridge too far because it would eliminate what little power they still have over there on that side of Pennsylvania Avenue and just be a pure rubber stamp for Trump. But also concerns, hey, someday, as much as the Republicans are trying to steer things so they'll stay in control, Thune's realistic. Someday we won't be in power and we'd be handing a Democrats a gift. Well, actually, you know, obviously, what goes around comes around. And to get rid of the filibuster now would obviously give Republicans a big advantage, but it would be short-lived, shall we say, or temporary. We're finally beginning to see those two things come together. One is senators and congressmen tend to care about institutional prerogatives, and Republicans have been surprisingly unconcerned up to now. We're beginning to see elements of that walk into the conversation. And I think things, Jonathan, it's more your way in the mind, but are slightly different after Tuesday. The idea that Donald Trump is not, if you will, on a role politically, that there was significant pushback in two states, as well as New York City, as well as the California vote and so forth. And not just the blue areas, purple areas, if you will, like New Jersey and Virginia. I think what you're beginning to see are Republicans on the Hill recalibrate.

And for the first time now in, what, 10 months, they're beginning to think, how do I position myself? So, yeah, I don't necessarily get primaried. On the other hand, one day there will be a general election. I have to also do okay, and I can't just be locked-step with Donald Trump. On certain issues, like SNAP benefits or whatever, I've got to begin to distance to myself. That's a different calibration, and I think it's good for American politics. Yeah, and certainly there is some recognition in the White House that they did get bested this week, and mostly on issues of affordability and aides to the president.

It's sort of been quietly saying, hey, we know we need to change course and start talking about that. President Trump, he didn't quite go there. and he's still trying to hold on to that mantle. So we're going to get into that in a moment. A very revealing comments from President Trump about what it seems to be the signature issue in today's American political landscape. But first, we should talk about his response

to the announcement from Nancy Pelosi. After publicly announcing yesterday that she would not seek re-election after a nearly 40-year career in Congress, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is further explaining her decision in a new piece that was published in the Atlantic. In it, the California,

Congresswoman harkens back to the founding of our country, advising Americans to cling to the ideals of freedom when faced with a threat to democracy. Pelosi writes in part this. Those of us who believe in liberty and dignity, goodness and generosity must never give in to the forces arrayed against the things we hold dearest. The battle can be exhausting, but it is a battle to which we are called by conscience and by love of country. Meanwhile, reaction from Washington continues to pour in from both sides of the aisle, and that includes President Trump, who did not mince words, instead of recognizing Pelosi's decades of service to the country,

Trump simply said this. I think she's an evil woman. I'm glad she's retired. I think she did the country a great service by retirement. I think she was a tremendous liability for the country. I thought she was an evil woman who did a poor job, who cost the country a lot in damages and in reputation. I thought she was terrible. The old guard has been repudiated, and the radicals are taking over the Democratic Party.

We have evidence now every day. Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi has now announced her retirement this morning. That is a very important sign that I, hope that you all will delve into. Even the famous San Francisco liberal is not far left enough for the neo-Marxist. I mean, Caddy, first Speaker Johnson, who just seems to be living in a different reality with what happened Tuesday with these elections, sure, Democratic Socialists Zeranamandhi won in New York City, but very moderate Democrats won in New Jersey and Virginia. The party also did very well in swing states like Pennsylvania, as well as deep red states

like Mississippi. So that's that. And then as far as President Trump goes, we know his personal animosity towards Pelosi. Pelosi was really the sort of top Democrat who stood up to him, who defied him in his first term. And it's yet another moment when given the choice between taking the high road or the low road, President Donald Trump always goes low. Yeah, it reminds me of a conversation I had recently with a senior Republican senator who said, you know, we do have a president who is not prone to moments of grace. And I think that is exactly what we saw yesterday. This is not American politics as it used to be. It's a reminder that we live in a new rhetorical era. And at a moment when somebody's retiring after a long and stellar career, even if they were

on the other side, there once was a time not very long ago, Jonathan, where you actually said something nice about them. And Katia, we'll also just note President Trump, not a word about the passing of former Vice President Dick Cheney this week. Another political figure who opposed him. Yes, flags were lowered at the White House and across Washington because that's in the code. But Trump himself, not a word about someone, the passing of someone who he disliked.

Yeah, again, the end of norms and traditions, and let's see if those get reestablished at some point in the future in American politics. I think all of us hope they do. It is a nicer place to live in when people are a little bit more gracious. However, not all Republicans repeated the president and the House Speaker's negative talking points about Nancy Pelosi. Here's GOP Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia sounding a little different.

I will praise Nancy Pelosi. She had an incredible career for her party. I served under her speakership in my first term of Congress. And I'm very impressed at her ability to get things done. I wish we could get things done for our party like Nancy Pelosi. was able to deliver for her party. Gene, watching Nancy and Marjorie Taylor-Green separate herself almost at any moment she can from both the White House and Republican leadership has been so interesting.

What do you think's going on here? I think maybe she's running for president. I think she may be, I'm serious. I'm serious. Yeah, I don't know. I think she is, I think she has ambitions for higher office. And that's number one. and number two, she's, you know, and I'm sorry, I thought I'd never say this, but on these

issues, she's coming back more to reality. You know, she's giving more sort of reality-based analysis than we're hearing from Speaker Johnson, for example. Like, what is he doing? What is the, you know, Democrats are all communists who are, you know, ready to bring the hammer and sickle to Washington. I mean, that line over and over every day, it's not landing. It's not happening. Look at Tuesday's results in Virginia, for example, every single county, including the most conservative, the most Republican counties. Every single one of the Trumpiest counties, everyone moved toward the Democrats. That should be telling them something. Yet it seems to have gotten through to Marjorie Taylor Green and not to, perhaps not to others.

Yeah, the Marjorie Taylor Green, welcome to the resistance moments, continue to pile up Richard Haas. Gop schmacked here. But let's just talk about the Roaldokin Party right now. Yes, the lack of class being shown by the president, not surprising, and we won't get that for the remainder of his time in office, I am sure. But it does seem like the party, not just learning the wrong lessons from Tuesday's election, but seems, at least in its leadership positions, so many of them adopting this, this meanness that emanates from the White House, that yeah, maybe that works for Donald Trump. Maybe that works, his thrills, his supporters.

And I don't think a lot of voters, those swing voters who actually decide elections, I don't think they like this. Yeah, one of the lessons of the election the other day, it's not just about where the Democratic Party is going, but it's where independence are going. And I don't think Americans are comfortable with meanness. Donald Trump has never met a norm he likes. I mean, think about it. You know, the peaceful transition of power, the idea that after you lose an election, you pick up the phone and you congratulate the person who won.

We had warnings, if you will, from the get-go. And what happened just this yesterday with Nancy Pelosi is another sign. But norms matter. Norms are kind of the lubricant of American people. politics. They reduce friction because laws only take you so far. You've got to have certain unwritten rules about how things work. And if you don't, you have things like shutdowns where people really get hurt. And you can't get anything done. And the amount of legislation passed now is ground essentially to a historic low. It means our foreign policy can't be consistent because

people no longer respect the idea that foreign policy is special. And politics are meant to stop at the water's edge a little bit. And I think Americans at some point are, we'll push back against this. And maybe, maybe. And it gets to what Gene was talking about with Marjorie Taylor Green. And again, you know, never thought I'd be having this conversation. But is recognizing the pendulum swing in politics. And maybe just maybe people are beginning to wake up to the fact that the pendulum was gone too far in a certain direction where Donald Trump has taken it. And maybe they were beginning to see the revival of an American middle. Yeah, at the very least it felt like Tuesday's results were rejection of some of the Trump extremism.

We'll see what happens, of course, the high-stakes midterms next year. All right, well, next up here on Morning Joe, President Trump, as we mentioned, keeps bringing up the concept of affordability, including the average cost for Thanksgiving just in a couple of weeks. We're going to fact-check his numbers. Plus, the United States has launched its 17th strike against an alleged drug boat as a growing number of lawmakers want answers from the administration. We'll talk to former Homeland Security Secretary Jay Johnson about that and much more next. And a reminder to sign up for our relaunch

newsletter, the T spilled by Morning Joe. Use your phone to scan that QR code on your screen or go to MSNBC.com slash the T spilled by Morning Joe, a URL that just rolls off the tongue. We'll be right back. Five in the morning and a beautiful shot of the White House in Washington, D.C. As the sun comes up over the nation's capital, where President Trump continues to talk about the issue of affordability and its role in last Tuesday's elections. He hit on the topic multiple times yesterday during an Oval Office event on lowering costs for weight loss drugs. He also said several times this week that Walmart's Thanksgiving meal

will be cheaper than it was last year. So Walmart, to me, you know, that's AAA, came out that nobody going to influence that. I don't know them. But they just came out with a very powerful statement. They've done it for many years that under the Biden administration, Thanksgiving meal, a Thanksgiving meal with all the trimmings cost 25% more. In other words, our Thanksgiving this year coming up will cost 25% less than sleepy Joe Biden's. Now, to me, that's better than anything there is. I was angry last night with the Republicans.

I say, you don't talk about this stuff. Nobody talks about it. You know, I rely on a question from a reporter to get that out. We should be talking about it because they talk about affordability. They don't have affordability. What the Democrats do is they lie. We are the ones that have done great on affordability. They've done horribly on affordability. The only thing is they go out and they take commercials out under the Democrats you have affordability. It's just the opposite. We have much lower prices than they do. And we only have one thing, beef, because the cattle ranches are doing well. We're going to bring the beef prices down, and they understand that, even if we have to help them out. But the beef also is not a big difference, but every price is

down. The biggest price is energy. We're at almost $2 for gasoline. Okay, maybe I'm an arm's chair psychologist, but the president didn't sound particularly happy there, sounding a little frustrated with things. And it's worth a quick fact check on that Walmart promotion. As ABC News points out, this year's bundle of Thanksgiving meal from Walmart has fewer items, 15 compared to 21, and a higher percentage of store brand items, which cost less. So, overall bundle costing less, but there's less in it too. On the topic of groceries, prices in September are about 2.7% higher than they were last year, and about 1.4% higher than they were in January when Mr. Trump took office. That's all according to the most recent consumer price index figures. Meanwhile, the national average for a gallon of gas is

$3.8. According to AAA, that's only two cents lower than this time last year. John, it's so interesting to hear President Trump have to deal with exactly what Joe Biden had to deal with, trying to tell the American public that the economy is doing well when the American public is feeling that the economy is doing badly and that prices are high. I mean, it just sounds like exactly. Maybe he should give him a call and get some tips because it sounds like the two men are having to deal with the same issue. The odds of that phone call, Slim, Caddy. I think that, but there's no question. It's a similar tone for President Trump.

It's just not what Americans are feeling right now. And to sort of exist almost in a denial, Sam Stein, about how affordability was the central issue on Tuesday. I'm going to read to you a post from our colleague Chris Hayes on X, the Everything site. He says, Trump's saying, I don't want to hear about affordability is, in Chris's estimation, a real gift. Chris writes, usually he, meaning Trump, exists outside the realm and logic of gaffes. But that one's going to get a lot of play. And I think he's right that the idea that Trump is being dismissive. Affordability, no, we've already solved that.

That's simply not what Americans think. Yeah, and there's this idea in politics that you just don't want to feel or present yourself as out of touch with voting. voters, right? The whole, I feel your pain idea that Bill Clinton popularized. This is the exact opposite of it. It's, you don't have pain. I solved your pain. And I don't really think that translates. I mean, who knows what I know, right? But for a lot of Americans, obviously, I mean, look at any polls. It's not just that they feel like their situation is bad economically. It's that they feel like Donald Trump has worsened their situation. And they look at the tariffs and they well, that's not really help matters.

They look at the cost of groceries. They say, what's going on? They look at the cost of gas. It's not down that much. And here he is saying he's reduced to everything. So it's deeply out of touch. And then I'll go back last. I can't get over it because it's so absurd.

But to do all this, while your family is profiting from a cryptocurrency, while you have wealthy donors giving to your gilded ballroom, and while your ex-best pal, Elon Musk gets a trillion dollar pay package, the juxtaposition is just insane and I don't know why he doesn't see it usually his instincts are a little bit better than this but he doesn't see it now Trump always exists as sort of denial

but actually if someone made this point to me that I will repeat here that every president of course lives in a bit of a bubble that's how it works but this one Trump in particular this time around Trump 2.0 so insular he doesn't travel the country anymore he doesn't do hold rallies

he very rarely holds events outside of Washington He does some foreign travel, to be sure, but very little domestic. He wasn't on a campaign trail at all. He's not talking to local officials. He's not talking to Republicans. I mean, he never was one for the rope line, but he's not hearing from voters. And even social media, when he was on Twitter, he'd at least, I'm told, would see things from other people, and sometimes it would make him mad.

But he'd be exposed to other points of view. Now that he's only on truth social, which is just his acolytes, he's not getting that either. He is remarkably locked in his own little world right now. and remarkably out of touch. Joining us now for more on this, former Secretary of Homeland Security in the Obama administration, Jay Johnson. Jay, of course, good morning.

Thank you for being here. President Trump's out of touch issues, out of touch claims about affordability come against the backdrop of a government shutdown. A government shutdown that more and more Americans, as we've been talking about in our first half hour this morning, are starting to feel the pain.

Snap benefits, government workers without paychecks, now seemingly could be a calamity at the airports this weekend. I mean, this is something where more, this is real pain for real Americans. It's real pain for the American public. It's real pain for the federal workforce. Jonathan and I ran a cabinet department of 230,000 people,

and I feel an obligation to speak for them. They have no voice in this process. They are political footballs, essentially. And they're either furloughed, sent home without pay, or they're forced to work without pay. dedicated to this country's aviation security, border security, cyber security, maritime security. And I will break ranks with my party to say, this has got to stop. This is the longest government shut down in history, 38 days.

And we need to get out of the business of leveraging one issue on the back of another. Otherwise, this is going to become the new norm. When the Republicans are back in the minority, and they will be, they will say, well, you need 60 votes to reopen the government. Well, we want you to also address issue A, B, and C, and our democracy will spiral downward. And so at the very least, the Republican majority ought to allow a straight up and down vote on health care. But deal with these issues separately so that they, they rise or fall on their own merits. Don't leverage one issue on the back of the other. Otherwise, we're going to end up with the dysfunctional government, which is what we have now.

The obligation of Congress, first obligation of Congress, is to keep the lights on, fund the government. And we are not doing that. This has got to stop. Well, Senator Thune said he might have some votes today. There are some moderate Democrats who are having conversations with Republicans. but we still seem a long way off from the deal. And to further the point, our crack research staff here, notes about President Trump's lack of domestic travel

that he seems out of touch. He has been to as many countries this year, 14, as he's been to American states, 14. He's simply the Trump rally, which was the signature political phenomenon in the last decade, that appears to be over. But he's also just simply not going out there to any event, whether campaign or official,

to simply talk to actual Americans and feel what they're feeling. stay with us because we want to get to some foreign policy issues with you in just a moment. Also ahead here on Morning Joe, some other headlines, including the Washington, D.C. man charged with assaulting a federal officer with a ham sandwich has been found not guilty. Yes, I just said that on television. We'll go over the jury's verdict with MSNBC senior legal reporter Lisa Rubin. That's straight ahead here on Morning Joe. Ethel strike against an alleged drug character.

boat in the Caribbean yesterday, killing three people. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth once again announced the attack on social media, releasing this video showing the moment of impact while saying the boat was trafficking narcotics and describing those killed as narco-terrorists. He did not provide any evidence for those claims. This is the 17th strike since the administration began its series of attacks in early September, resulting in at least 70 deaths, and coming amid ramped-up questions from lawmakers on the legality and the transparency regarding these strikes. It comes as the Republican-led Senate has rejected a bipartisan resolution that would have required congressional approval for any future military action against Venezuela.

Lisa Mikowski of Alaska and Rand Paul of Kentucky were the only Republicans to break from the party and vote with Democrats. Last month, President Trump said he wouldn't necessarily ask Congress for a formal declaration of war and that, quote, we're just going to kill people that are bringing drugs into our country. Republican Todd Young of Indiana said his vote was not an endorsement of any military operation and he expressed concern about military engagements abroad. Jonathan, it seems like they're not letting up, right?

We keep getting news after the fact that these strikes have taken place. There's been some briefing of Republicans up on Capitol Hill, but Democrats don't feel they've had enough information, and certainly the public has not had enough. information. We haven't had the justification for what looks like an ongoing act of war against Venezuelan boats. Yeah, and the initial briefing was to Republicans only. Democrats were excluded from that. And this happens as not only are these strikes continuing, but more and more American military assets are being sent to the region, a real sense, Jay Johnson, that there could be

more coming. So speak, if you will, to what you perceive as the legality or lack thereof of of these strikes, but also your concerns, potentially, about what could come next? Before I was Secretary of Homeland Security, I was General Counsel of the Department of Defense. The reality is that over, as my friend Dr. Haas knows, over multiple administrations, legal interpretations of the president's authority to send the military into hostile situations without congressional authorization has greatly expanded to the point where, where the Department of Justice says anytime it is in the national interest for the president to send the military into hostilities, and so long as it does not rise to the level in scope

of a war, the president can do so. That has expanded over multiple generations. But killing low-level drug carriers on the high seas, allegedly. Allegedly, a mission traditionally reserved for law enforcement crosses the line. 9-11 was an act of war that warranted a military response. Pearl Harbor was an act of war that warranted a military response. Drug smuggling into this country

is an international crime of monumental scale, but it essentially is a mission for law enforcement, which is why we have the Coast Guard interdicting drug careers on the high seas with the support of the U.S. Navy. We talked earlier about congressional prerogatives. It is Congress's constitutional prerogative to authorize war. And so, frankly, more Republicans need to step up and enforce and take seriously their oath

to the Constitution here and assert their prerogatives. This is without congressional authorization. It crosses the line. This is a traditional law enforcement function. And Congress needs to step up. Amen to everything Jay just said, the secretary just said. But I don't believe for a New York minute that this is where it's ending. You do not amass the scale, including an aircraft carrier task force, that we're putting there in order to go after drug runners.

The bigger question which Congress and others ought to be focusing on is what are we planning to do with Venezuela? Right. This is a large country. We have a lot of experience, shall we say, with regime change. How are we contemplating the use of military force? Is it to intimidate? Are we thinking of a Noriega-like snatch? Are we thinking of going in there? And even if you were somehow able to remove this odious regime of Maduro, what then? What are you prepared to do in order to see that something better and enduring takes its place? This is a serious conversation. Nation building is a serious enterprise and at the high end of difficult tasks of American national security policy, history would show. And as worrisome as everything Jay Johnson just talked about in terms of what ought to be a law enforcement exercise, they're using military justifications. To me, the bigger concern is where are we heading and what might a lead. And it also raises one last thing, starting on. This really

big question as to what is this administration's foreign policy focus. It's clearly not Europe. I'm not sure it's Asia. I almost think we have a pivot away from Asia and we're seeing a pivot towards the Western Hemisphere. This is a big idea. Now, I don't think it's a particularly good one, but it's one that where the conversation needs to catch up with the reality. And, Richard, as you know, it is much easier to start a war than it is to end one. Absolutely. Yeah, the focus on the hemisphere includes Pamela Canal, Greenland, several other examples. And if there is open debate in the administration right now about what comes next,

potentially even strikes on Venezuela's land. We'll see about boots on the ground. That would be a whole other matter. Former Homeland Security Secretary Jay Johnson, Secretary, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We'll talk to you again soon. Still ahead here on Morning Joe, the president of the flight attendance union will be a guest following a significant reduction in flights across the country because of the ongoing government shutdown. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Houston, Texas, at 5.50 in the morning central time, 6.50 here on the East Coast.

And speaking of the Lone Star State, after winning a registering fight in California, Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom is indeed heading to Texas tomorrow. He's set to headline a rally in Houston alongside some Democratic state. lawmakers. This comes, of course, as several states fight to redraw congressional lines after Texas Republicans passed a new map in August. Newsom's campaign told the Houston Chronicle that the event is meant to, quote, celebrate Texas legislators who have resisted Greg Abbott and Donald Trump's attempts to undermine the 2026 election. Eugene Robinson, I'm certain Gavin Newsom is not looking to raise his national profile at all. But let's talk about this win here for Democrats in California.

there was so much said about New Jersey, Virginia, New York City. Arguably, the California win the biggest. It's not just for Newsom's 2028 aspirations, but it shows such fight for Democrats. And maybe changing the ideas around redistricting. Some red states, including Kansas, pushing paws, like, do we really want to do this? And there's some thoughts that even the Republicans play in Texas, these new seats they could be creating. And the way they chopped up the old ones could leave them vulnerable. for some Democratic gains.

Yeah, be careful what you wish for. Those Texas seats don't look maybe as safe Republican as the people drew the lines initially thought. You know, Gavin Newsom is, you know, his whole thing right now is in your face. And he is in the face of Republicans nationwide. Yes, it has everything to do with his aspirations for. higher office, I think, we could safely say. But also, he's, you know, he is, he is demonstrating the kind of fight and the kind of, you know, fighting, you know, fighting fire with fire that so many

Democrats, so many in the Democratic base have sort of hankered for. So, you know, there you go into the belly of the beast and go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're far too far away from 2028 to a point of front runner, but certainly Gavin Newsom, a lot of energy right now. Gene Robinson, thank you as always. Thanks for joining us. Have a good weekend.