Morning Joe - Introducing “How to Win 2024”

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

How do you win an unprecedented election that could see a criminally indicted ex-president take on the current Commander in Chief? How do you win crucial down-ballot races that will ultimately shape the power dynamics for whoever wins the White House? And how do you win over voters – of any party -- when mistrust in leadership is at an all-time high? Claire McCaskill and Jennifer Palmieri, are two of the most well-respected voices in American politics today and have some ideas. Listen to their new podcast “How to Win 2024” and follow the show: https://link.chtbl.com/htw_fdlw

Hi, this is Jen Psaki from MSNBC's Inside with Jen Psaki. How do you take an unprecedented election that could see a criminally indicted ex-president take on the current commander in chief? How do you win crucial down ballot races that will ultimately shape the power dynamics for whomever wins the White House? And how do you win over voters of any party when mistrust in leadership is at an all-time high? Claire McCaskill and Jennifer Palmieri, the hosts of a new MSNBC podcast, How to Win 2024, have some ideas. They're two of the most well-respected voices in American politics today and have firsthand experience winning difficult, if not impossible, races. Claire McCaskill was the first woman ever elected to the U.S. Senate from Missouri, and she won as a Democrat in a red state at that. She also knows how to win at the state and local

level, serving as a county prosecutor and in the state House of Representatives. Not only does Claire know how to win her own races, but she knows how to pick a winner, becoming one of the first senators to endorse Barack Obama in January 2008. Jennifer Palmieri is considered one of the first senators to endorse Barack Obama in January 2008. Jennifer Palmieri is considered one of the most accomplished communications advisors in U.S. politics. She served as White House communications director for President Obama, director of communications for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign, and White House deputy press secretary for President Bill Clinton. Having worked in the White House for 12 years, she has a unique understanding of what it takes to get there, how exactly U.S. presidents need to operate, and how to manage unexpected crises. Jen is also a bestselling author and the co-host of the political docuseries The Circus

on Showtime. In this new podcast, you'll hear straight from Claire and Jennifer, unfiltered, about how candidates from both parties can, or maybe can't, win this important election cycle. Please join me now in listening to How to Win 2024, and please subscribe to the series in the How to Win 2024 feed. Hello, I'm Jennifer Palmieri here with my brand new co-host, former Senator Claire McCaskill. Claire and I have known each other for decades. We've been in the trenches together and we are so excited to bring you this new podcast from MSNBC, How to Win 2024. Claire and I have worked at the highest levels of government and we have some

unique insights into what it takes to get there. We also have some crazy stories that we are excited to share with you. And we have a lot to say about this unprecedented, extraordinarily historic, high stakes 2024 election, including a lot of important things that we don't have time to get to when you're on television. So it's terrific to be here. I get frustrated sometimes when we have to speak in clips on TV, or as we say in the business, a crisp bite. We can have sloppy mumbles on a podcast and actually have a conversation that allows us to hopefully pull back the curtain and give really good information and talk about breaking news, but most importantly, make it real. Winning is hard. Winning the presidency is super, super,

super hard. Since both of us have been in and around tough elections for most of our adult lives, we feel like we're equipped and we hope you will join us for this exciting ride. We're going to share with you the things that we text each other about, right? These are the things that we talk about off camera, not the things that you hear about necessarily on television. So that means maybe even a little football. Claire! Don't even start. Don't even start. No, we're not going there. Let's save it. Okay. Save it. This is a pilot. This is the're not going there. Let's save it. Save it. This is a pilot. This is the first episode. Let's get to business. We've got plenty of time for the NFL.

Okay. We're going to kick things off with a segment we're calling Winners and Losers, where we break down the biggest fail on the trail and an unexpected win of the week. Okay. Biggest fail on the trail. We have to start with Biden's poll numbers. This is what all of our friends, including our very politically astute friends, are texting us about. People, even with deep knowledge of how polling works and how campaigns go, are actually worried about. So I'm going to go through CNN poll that came out late last week as an example. OK, Biden's approval rating, 39 percent. That's the second lowest ever. It was 38 percent last summer.

Second lowest of 39 percent. Biden's approval rating, 39%. That's the second lowest ever. It was 38% last summer. Second lowest ever, 39%. 73% of people were seriously concerned about the impact of Biden's age on his ability to do his job. 67% of Democratic and left-leaning voters said they wish they had an alternative to Biden. And this one really struck me, 58% said that his policies, his economic policies, even after all sorts of good economic news, have actually created a worse economic environment than improved the economy. So, Claire, I got a lot of thoughts about this, but what stands out for you? What do you think the campaign Biden needs to do to focus in on the next few weeks to bring things around? Well, first of all, I'm in the Jim Messina camp. For those who don't know Jim Messina,

he's also been in the trenches in many presidential campaigns. You know, this is the bedwetting stage. At this point in 2011, Obama's numbers sucked. Obama was losing to Romney at this point in 2011, people. That's exactly right. It's called the incumbent blues. The American people inherently want change in a presidential election. No matter how good the president is, no matter how good the economic news is, there's just always a tailwind for change in every election. That's why 2024 is different than 2020. Having said all that, I think the main thing they've got to do is one, don't get tired of saying the same things over and over again about the job creation and about the wage increases. But secondly, do it maybe while doing pushups. Right. Let's see more of him doing SoulCycle. Let's see more of him on his bike.

And I'm kind of kidding, but if they ignore this issue, I remember the early days, and I know you painfully remember the early days about her emails. Right. And how we kept saying to each other, this is such a nothing burger. There is no story here. There is nothing she did that was criminal, maybe slightly sloppy around the edges, you know, shades of maybe Hunter Biden and how they've handled that, but nothing was disqualifying about it. And so as a result, it kept building and building and building. So I think they got to grab this thing by the throat. I think they've got to use some humor and creativity. I know they're planning on ads in Iowa and other places about his vigor and his presence on the world stage in a way that shows

his vitality and his policy chops and his ability to get things done. I think they really should not shy away from that. And I think they should lean into the fact that these are two guys that are the same age, essentially the same age. I certainly think Joe Biden is in better shape than Donald Trump. Totally. And because Trump is so crazy and disqualifying in other ways, we sort of ignore the fact that he is also old. Yes, exactly. I mean, and Bernie Sanders is older than Joe Biden, and I don't have anybody calling for him not to run again because of his age. I don't know if he's gonna, but so anyway, I think that, yeah, the poll numbers are a problem. But hopefully it gets everybody motivated and keeps everybody motivated.

So this is my take. So Obama was losing to Romney at this point in 2011. Obama also had low approval ratings. He was in the low 40s. Biden's in the high 30s. Like, it's not that different, particularly since we live in such a polarized world. Now, he is doing ads, as you say. I mean, I do think they are leaning into the age as wisdom more. And also Biden's reaction to the age issue is, watch me, watch how I do. And they put the ad up last week showing his trip to Ukraine. That obviously shows a man with a lot of vigor, a lot of energy. He's just finished this Vietnam trip. That was a whirlwind 70-hour trip abroad. And like, we all know he's old. We know that. So let's just see more of him. You know, his speech, you and I texted last night about his speech at 9-11. Very moving. That was a great moment. He

went to go see the memorial to John McCain in Vietnam. That reminds us that he likes to bring people together. He's friends with Republicans. Bipartisanship matters to him. Show us the good qualities. And I think that's just, you know, age is always going to be there, but I think that's how they best deal with it. By the way, we didn't start ads in the Obama reelect until November of 11, and they're already on the air with ads. So they are trying to deal with stuff. The thing that stood out to me, though, was the economic numbers. I didn't expect to see Biden's approval rating on the economy go way up in these polls, but I was surprised to see him do worse with voters on his economic policies helping things. I think that might be because when people think of economic policies, I think of interest rates and inflation, and obviously interest rates are high. Biden does

not control that. The Fed does. But there was one stat buried in this CNN poll that I think is something to build on. And we'll talk to Kornacki about this because we got Steve Kornacki coming up. Young voters and voters of color that Biden really needs to win in 2024, part of the 2020 coalition that gave him his win, they think government should be doing more to solve problems. Guess what? Guess what, voters under 45 and voters of color? Joe Biden has done a lot to solve problems. It's like things that people just don't know about, that they have a lot of accomplishments that they can talk about. And they are starting ads that talk about the economic accomplishments. So that's like the Thursday night football game last week. I know, so we're subject with you. I know. Chief's loss. But he started ads there that are running the

battleground states on the economic accomplishments. So the other big question, though, that people are saying right now, is there anyone else on the Democratic side that's in a better position to win? No. It's over, people. Get on board. Stop it right now. Stop it. Now it is about getting everyone registered. It is about explaining to everyone how important this is. This is no different. The threat is no different in 2024 than it was in 2020 in terms of everything that we care about. fact that women have been disrespected by the United States Supreme Court in ways that were unimaginable to my dear departed mother who worked most of her life trying to make progress on issues like that. So what about the win now? Let's do the win. You do the win. I have to be Haley. You know, if we're going to talk about these poll numbers, and I know we're going to talk

to Karnacki about them, the khaki wonder here in a minute about the poll numbers and looking inside the poll numbers. But when they do the head to heads and Biden is close with Trump and frankly tied with DeSantis, it wasn't like DeSantis was any better than Trump in this poll. But then up jumps Nikki Haley plus six. By far a bigger lead, not quite outside the margin of error, but getting to that territory, that has to be a big win for her. That is what she needs to stay in this race. That is what she needs, her ability to beat Joe Biden, much more so in this poll than any of the other candidates. That's a big win for her, and I guarantee you, she's riding this horse for more money and fundraising. I don't get her fundraising emails, but I guarantee you they've been flooded

with this number. And it's certainly one she's going to use in ads in Iowa and everywhere. This has to be a big win for her. It keeps her alive when she was on life support. Right. I mean, she's got one message. In the end, we just need to beat Biden. I'm the one with the best chance to do it. But I mean, I still feel like we don't know. We do not know what's going to happen. And we have seen crazier things happen than Trump getting upended in this Republican primary, although the whole Republican primary campaign does kind of feel like fantasy football to me. Yeah. Like, that's interesting. I'm interested to watch your debate. It has no bearing on who's going to be the Republican nominee. Correct. Correct. All right. You know him. You love him. Sadly, you will not be able to see his khakis.

But we are thrilled that Steve Karnacki is joining us right after the break to tell us what he is making of these most recent polls. So stay tuned. Kornacki, this is very exciting. There's something I love more than your big board. I know you don't have it today, but we're super excited you're here. Thank you so much for joining. Claire, you got some questions? Yeah.

So my first question is, does anybody call you Steve? My whole family does. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Because at 30 Rock and every time I'm around, it's always Karnacki, Karnacki. Are you okay with Karnacki? Sure. You know what? I graduated when I was about eight years old and my family from Stevie to Steve. I liked that. But if you want to go with the last name, go with the last name. All right. So here's what people need to understand is a poll is a book. And what we get on cable news are what we call the top lines. What you do at the big board sometimes is you give us a tantalizing glimpse into the inner workings of these polls by pulling out numbers and what's called the crosstabs. And for our listeners, crosstabs are so essential. I love crosstabs. I'm weird. I've got a genetic defect. Not as bad as Steve Kornacki's, but I definitely have a genetic defect when it comes to the crosstabs and reading them carefully for targeting and learning what's going on.

What I would love you to talk about, Steve, is what in the crosstabs was the best news for Joe Biden and what in the crosstabs was the worst news for Joe Biden? The one cautionary note on crosstabs, I think just to start with for anybody who starts looking at them, is keep in mind when you're talking about crosstabs, you're talking about small groups within the overall poll. So the sample size for these groups is going to be small. The margin for error is going to be higher. So I think the key, anybody who wants to be looking at crosstabs, is it's the accumulation over time. It's not just one poll, because one poll can really lead you astray on that. So that being said, what I've seen consistently, I would say, in the polling that's

had Trump and Biden in a close race is that Biden has not been doing well to groups in particular, both in terms of support and in terms of motivation. And that is people of color. That's what you saw in the CNN poll. They didn't break it out, black, white, Asian, Hispanic. But among people of color, they had Biden with a lead of just 58 to 34 percent. That would be way down from what it was in 2020. That would be way down from what it's been historically for Democratic presidential candidates. Yeah, just let me interrupt just for a second, because I just want to give some perspective. There was never an election I won that I didn't get over 90 percent of the black vote in Missouri. And so that's the question. As I say, it's not broken out in this poll, but I think there is a sense, yes, the black vote for Democrats,

which has been above 80 percent since the 1964 Civil Rights Act, the election of Goldwater versus Johnson, that it will land back in that zone. It was almost 90 percent for Biden in 2020. The question mark is the Hispanic vote, because we saw that move dramatically away from the Democrats between 2016 and 2020. We see an education divide within the Hispanic vote that's starting to mirror what we see among white voters that could benefit Republicans, non-college educated Hispanics Republicans, non-college educated Hispanics, especially non-college educated Hispanic males. You see that group becoming more Republican friendly, more Trump friendly, and there's the possibility that could continue

in 2024. The other issue here too is non-white turnout. Democrats were happy with how the 2022 midterm has played out, but non-white turnout was not great for them. And so the question is, can they get that turnout back up for 2024? And again, when you look at motivation in these polls, when you ask, for instance, in this CNN poll, how motivated are you to vote? The lowest score on that right now comes from people of color. When you're talking about white voters with college degrees, it's 90 percent. White voters without college degrees, it's 89 percent. So there's a gap there. That's what we saw in 22. Does that persist in 24? What about good news?

Let's let the train leave the station without whatever silver lining you can find. Donald Trump's negatives are extremely high. And that's why Democrats managed to have the successful midterm that they had in 2022. When you look at the races that Democrats won, the key races that they won, Georgia is a perfect example of this. In 2022, there was a governor's race, Brian Kemp, Republican running for reelection. And there was a Senate race, Herschel Walker, a challenging Raphael Warnock. Donald Trump was politically at war with Brian Kemp because Kemp had signed off on the 2020 election result in Georgia. Trump recruited a challenger to go after Kemp in the primary. The challenger, former Senator David Perdue, was trounced in that primary. Kemp had

huge political distance from Donald Trump. Meanwhile, Herschel Walker was the candidate, handpicked Trump candidate, close relationship between the two of them. And if you look at Georgia, black turnout was down, but that group of white college educated voters, typically been a Republican friendly constituency in Georgia, voted Republican in both of those races. And if you throw a generic Republican at them, they're probably going to vote for the generic Republican. And they were comfortable with Kemp because Kemp was distant from Trump, but they were not comfortable with Herschel Walker, I would say, because Herschel Walker was closely aligned with and tied to

Donald Trump. So that's the hope for Democrats is that Trump remains very unpopular with that type of voter. And it's a question of if it is a Biden-Trump race, there's all sorts of liabilities for Biden. You were talking about them before. Does distaste for Trump that we saw among those voters in 2022, does that outweigh the distaste for Biden, whether it's on the economy, whether it's on the age questions, all of that. There's certainly the potential for that. What about on the indictments? You know, everybody says that the indictments have helped Trump in the Republican contest, mostly by blocking out the sun. But have you seen evidence in polling about how it's impacting him for the general, particularly with independent voters? If you're a Democrat, I think that's

what's probably most concerning to you about polling you're seeing right now. Again, polling this far out, you were talking about it's not always that predictive and things can change. Where are we right now? We are coming off of four months of indictments of Donald Trump, major legal actions against Trump. And yet, after months and months of that being the headline story, you're looking at polls that essentially show an even general election matchup. So I think if you're a Democrat, that's probably just big picture. That's the most concerning thing to you, that it hasn't moved folks away. And frankly, if you're one of Trump's opponents or you're hoping to nominate somebody besides Trump, that's a huge concern for you, too, because all those Republican candidates were counting on these four months to be the four months that convinced Republican voters that, hey, you know, maybe I like Donald Trump. I think he's been getting a raw deal, but the guy can't win. His opponents were counting on that attitude taking hold, and it really seems like the exact opposite's taking place.

Yeah, it feels like that ship has sailed. Some people may hear what Steve just said and think, doesn't that mean that the Biden campaign should be talking more about Trump and how dangerous he is? But I don't think that's right. I think right now what you need to be doing is talking to the voters that don't know all the things that you have done on the economy,

that don't know the accomplishments, that don't understand that there has been bipartisan accomplishments, that the government can work and can produce results for you. Your vote met something in 2020. I feel like that's kind of what they need to be doing now. But Steve, just for the last question, there's a poll recently out of Iowa that showed Trump's support dropping some. What do you make of that? Yeah, again, I take it with a grain of salt. Look, the bottom line is if Donald Trump is going to be stopped in the Republican primaries, I really do think it has to start in Iowa. Somebody has to beat him in Iowa. And then it's got to be that slingshot effect where suddenly Trump looks vulnerable in a way he doesn't now. And that candidate then zooms up in New Hampshire, maybe wins New Hampshire. That's the one thing that never happened for Donald Trump in 2016 on his march to the Republican

nomination. He never lost two major contests in a row. He had a couple of big losses. He always followed them up with a win. He never looked that vulnerable. If somebody could beat him in Iowa and then parlay it into New Hampshire, Trump would be in uncharted territory. Okay, well, I think the likelihood of that happening is the same as me winning the lotto, so I'll go buy a ticket today. Steve, thank you so much. I'm going to call you Steve. Stevie, that's so cute. That's so cute. I won't call you Stevie. I shouldn't have revealed it, but thank you very much. It's so sweet. Thank you. I really appreciate it. More How to Win 2024 in just a moment.

It's interesting, Claire, about Iowa. If Trump lost, I mean, there are a lot of smart Republicans that are trying to stop Trump. And they think you have to start in Iowa. That's why you see all of these ads in Iowa that are anti-Trump ads saying he can't win, etc. That's why all the Republicans against Trump, everybody's doing that. So the theory is he loses in Iowa. Maybe Chris Christie pulls off some sort of miracle in New Hampshire. Like, what do you think?

I don't think, frankly, that it's going to work in Iowa. We'll see. But the one thing I was struck by in our conversation with Karnacki was the motivation of black voters to vote in 2024, and particularly in Georgia. And one thing he didn't talk about is we had Raphael Warnock on the ballot. That was a big deal in terms of getting black vote out. So what would it be in 2024 to get the black vote really motivated in Georgia? And I got to tell you, I think Trump going after Fannie Willis is going to help. He is consistently and constantly calling her names and dragging her and dissing her. And she is a really accomplished prosecutor, a professional.

And that has got to grate on the nerves of black voters in Georgia. And not that she would ever respond or become political about that. She shouldn't. But I do think that will help motivate the black voters in Georgia to vote against Donald Trump next year. That's interesting. I have heard, you know, like Greg Blustein, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter that I've gotten to know pretty well. He does talk about how much she is respected in Georgia and like just what a force she is. So that is an interesting point.

We're going to turn to a segment we're calling Spotlight, where each week we will zero in on a down-ballot race, a person or issue that may not be getting as much attention as it deserves. Claire, you have a lot of great ideas for fun segments to do on that. I think the Virginia legislative elections will certainly be one of these topics and use that as cues as to what we can expect on Election Day. Anything to share on spotlights to come? Well, we Anything to share on spotlights to come? Well, we got a lot of spotlights to come. I think we got to talk about fundraising. I think we need to talk about no labels.

I think we need to talk about Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema and whether their play for the middle was ham-handed or adroit and tactical. All that, I think we've got lots of stuff to spotlight. But today, I think there is one guy who deserves the spotlight more than any other guy because it is on him and it couldn't be brighter. And that is poor old Kevin McCarthy.

He is, to use an unladylike term, he is screwed. I would rather be in solitary confinement in Rikers than Kevin McCarthy for the next 30 days. That's how bad he's going to have it. And I got to tell you the truth, it kind of makes me smile. I know I shouldn't because it's our government and we need it to function. But he did this. He put himself in this position. Nobody's responsible but him. He sold out to the fringe element in his party, and now they have the steering wheel and they're fixing to run over him. And now he is going to welcome an impeachment inquiry into Biden. And no White House actually wants to be

impeached, okay? I worked for President Clinton. That was not something we wanted. It's also true that Bill Clinton's highest approval rating ever was 73 percent. 73 percent. And it was the week after the Republican House impeached him. And then this impeachment inquiry, I mean, there was wrongdoing by President Clinton. There was something to look into. This is the evidence-free impeachment inquiry. And Biden always says, don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And the MAGA world in the House, Republican House, is taking over and it is giving, that's going to be a great contrast for Biden. But like, what else? It's not just this impeachment inquiry. Yeah, the impeachment inquiry is a road to political liability for the Republicans. I believe that they're going to try to subpoena financial records. And I believe those financial records are going to prove out what most Americans firmly believe at this point. And that is, his son had bad judgment and did stuff he shouldn't have done, playing on the name of

his father and the position of his father, but that Joe Biden had no involvement in it. The other thing that is going to be more prominent, I think, in the next 30 days is whether or not they can keep the government open. And there is the reality, and people need to remember this, Kevin McCarthy can only lose four votes, four votes in the Republican Party and get anything passed. And he's got more than four that want to remove him as Speaker at this point. And what they're all saying is if he goes to Democrats for a short-term CR, and so people understand a CR is basically a resolution that allows the government to operate as is for another period of time to kick the can down the road to actually get the debt ceiling agreement and to get the appropriations and all of that done. So if he goes to Democrats to get a CR, if he goes to Democrats to keep the government open,

that is what all these fringe Republicans are saying will be the deal breaker for him being speaker. So we could get a twofer. We could get a double scooper here, we could get McCarthy facing expulsion as Speaker at the same time the government shuts down. And that's when the confetti and the balloons will drop for the Democratic Party. I look to see how Kevin McCarthy's team is handling this. And I saw that Eric Cantor, who was a former Republican whip of the House, he did an interview with Politico to explain all the reasons why a shutdown is bad politics for Republicans. Right. Eric Cantor doesn't do a lot of press. He did that because Kevin McCarthy asked him to. Right. I mean, he said, like, this is a loser.

Any party that has started a shutdown loses politically because of it. And, you know, it's very easy to vote to shut something down and it's really hard to get it back open. And the thing with these guys is they just don't have any sort of exit strategy because they can't have any exit strategy. And it's the same reason why, you know, good for Nikki Haley that she can beat Joe Biden in a theoretical head to head based on who we think Nikki Haley is. But she's in the same cul-de-sac as everybody else, right? I mean, it's like to get any traction in the Republican Party, you have to give in to the MAGA wing.

That is what McCarthy is doing on the shutdown. That is what McCarthy is doing on the impeachment. But to actually accomplish anything, to actually win, you can't be captive to the MAGA wing. Yeah, and the Democrats have to be really disciplined here, and they have to have a really strong, clear message every day, over and over again. Repetition is their best friend. The Republicans are threatening to shut down the government. The Republicans are shutting down the government. And secondly, Kevin McCarthy doesn't know how to make

a deal, because what they're asking him to do is to break the deal he made with the President of the United States just a few months ago. They made a deal on spending and now what the fringe of his party is wanting him to do is to go back on his word. So that is not good for them either, especially with those swing voters and independent voters. So a deal's a deal, doesn't apply anymore. If you're the Republicans, and by the way, they're perfectly happy shutting down the government, which is going to be chaos for a lot of people, not just federal employees. So I hope they're disciplined. I hope we don't get

off on other issues, why Kevin McCarthy is in this tenuous position, because I do think tactically it will help us win in 2024. I think the House Democrats will be disciplined about this. I spent some time with Leader Jeffries and the House Dem leadership, and they are concerned about the shutdown. They understand that this is, you know, not good. Jeffries always says in the Trump era, in the MAGA era, when you want to break through, simplicity, repetition. What's the principle at stake? And keep repeating and keep repeating that. I think the House Democrats will understand. They know what their role is here. Same role they did the

debt limit vote. They executed that really well. Do you think that Speaker McCarthy will remain Speaker McCarthy, Claire? I don't know. I don't know, but it's going to. But who can get to 18 if not him, you know? I'm going to tell you. I mean, I'm going to have my buttered popcorn and diet Coke. I know it makes no sense, but it is who I am. I sometimes make no sense. Watch this, and we will be able to talk about it in the future. It is great that we have this opportunity to break stuff down like this, and hopefully we will have some fun in the process, and hopefully people will join us as we ride the roller coaster on how to win in 2024. Super fun.

Thank you, Jen. Yeah, super fun. Thanks very much. And thanks for listening. The senior producer for this show is Alicia Conley. Our technical director is Bryson Barnes. Our audio engineer is Aaron Dalton. Jessica Schrecker is our segment producer.

Jamaris Perez is the Dalton. Jessica Schrecker is our segment producer. Jamaris Perez is the associate producer. Aisha Turner is the executive producer for MSNBC Audio. And Rebecca Cutler is the senior vice president for content strategy at MSNBC. Search for How to Win 2024 wherever you get your podcasts and follow the series. Yay!