Morning Joe - Israel says it will take control of Gaza City, escalating war with Hamas

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Israel says it will take control of Gaza City, escalating war with Hamas

I think when you look at them, they're all something, but this one chart really says it better than anything. If you look at this, this is great. But this chart is pretty amazing. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, move over, Steve Ratner. Trump has charts. We're going to explain what was going on in that economic briefing yesterday. in the Oval Office. Plus, today is President Trump's deadline for Russia to agree to a ceasefire in Ukraine

or face economic sanctions. We'll look at where those negotiations stand. Also ahead, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is making clear his intentions for Gaza. We'll bring you the latest on that escalating situation. We'll also get a live report from Austin, Texas, as Democrats continue to stall redistricting efforts. NBC's Ryan Chandler will join us after sitting down with Governor Greg Abbott. And we'll dig into the firing of a former acting FBI director who registered a DOJ directive to turn over a list of agents who had worked on January 6th cases. Good morning and welcome

to Morning Joe. It is Friday, August 8th. It's Friday, everybody. Let's dive right in. Secondary sanctions targeting Russia are expected to be implemented today, and that is according to two White House officials and a senior administration official. It comes as the White House is placing an additional 25 percent tariff on Indian exports to the United States because of Deli's continued purchasing of Russian oil by India. Meanwhile, President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to meet in the coming days. Trump told him, reporters that Putin does not have to meet with Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky before his sit down with Trump.

But press secretary, Caroline Levitt, says President Trump would like to meet with both leaders, adding that those details are still being worked out. On the battlefield in Ukraine, the Wall Street journalist highlighting the efforts by Kiev's military to drive back Russian advances in northern Ukraine. Officers and analysts tell the paper Russia's forces have stalled in the region since mid-July, while Ukraine has been able to reclaim between four to six square miles of land in the area and a few villages. It has largely stopped Russia's summer offensive so far by targeting supply lines.

Ukrainian President Zelensky even traveled to the area to meet with soldiers there this week. But as the journal also notes, Ukraine remains outnumbered in the area and may struggle to build on its momentum, Joe. Well, so here we have. We heard about the spring offensive that was going to be coming by Ukraine a few years ago. It never really materialized. We've been hearing about this summer offensive by the Russians also not materializing. They have war troops, but those troops are getting slaughtered in numbers that are sickening to my. Maybe not to Vladimir Putin, but to many Russians, those numbers are absolutely sickening. They continue, and it just proves, once again, what most military analysts have been saying for a few years now. We are locked in a World War I style stalemate.

Let's bring it right now life from London, NBC News, foreign correspondent, Ralph Sanchez. Raff, interesting backdrop, that Wall Street Journal's story and also other reporting of the region about the stalled summer offensive that certainly may give Donald Trump a bit of a stronger hand as he goes into negotiate with a man who does not want this war to end, Vladimir Putin. What do you know? Yeah, Joe, Miga, good morning. President Trump reiterating yesterday in the Oval Office that he is disappointed with Vladimir Putin's determination to press on with this war, but there is a lot of uncertainty about where the administration's policy goes from here. We have this talk of President Trump sitting down with Vladimir Putin in person, potentially in the coming days, but as yet there's no exact timeline

for when that meeting could happen. There's no exact venue. Vladimir Putin suggesting yesterday before the cameras in front of the Kremlin that the United Arab Emirates, that powerful Gulf country that is close to both the U.S. and Russia, could be a neutral ground for that meeting to happen. Now, the president was also asked whether he plans to press ahead with this Friday deadline, with imposing these sanctions on Russia, given that this meeting is coming up. The president, a little unclear. He said it would depend on Vladimir Putin. He said that he was waiting to see what the president, what the Russian leader would say. So at this point, it really is not clear when exactly these sanctions will go into place, what form

they would take, and potentially if they will actually go ahead. The other thing that does appear to be slipping is White House officials had said that this meeting between President Trump and President Putin would also need to include some kind of a meeting between Putin and Zelensky. But President Trump, in the Oval yesterday, seemed to be suggesting that that was no longer an American red line. He seemed to say that it was worth meeting Putin to hear what the Russian leader has to say with or without a sit down between Zelensky and the Russian leader. So, a lot of major questions outstanding right now. Zelensky, for his part, saying that Ukraine must absolutely be included in any of these negotiations and that there should be no talks

about Ukraine without Ukraine. Guys. Right. And it sounds as if there's also now a possibility, and of course, this is moving pretty quickly based on your reporting and other, a bit of a shuttle diplomacy where President Trump may speak to Vladimir Putin first, then may speak with Ukraine's leader Zelensky. Is that a possibility? And is that a possibility of having them in the same location, wherever that may be? And he just goes from a meeting with Putin to a meeting with Zelensky. Yeah, that's definitely a possibility, Joe. But if you think about that format, just the risks involved of an American president flying to the other side of the world and then potentially being a little bit of a hostage to whatever Vladimir Putin decides in the

room. You know, imagine if President Trump is not given anything substantial that he could carry across that hallway, metaphorical or literal, and deliver to Zelensky. You know, the longstanding position in the U.S. government had been, under the Biden administration anyway, that a sit down with Vladimir Putin is a victory for the Russians unless it comes with an agreement in advance that there will be major concessions. It does not appear at this point that there is any such agreement. It is not clear what exactly President Trump would be walking into and what he could deliver coming out of one of those meetings. Jeff. Obviously, Willie, a lot of concern around the president, a lot of concern around Zelensky's team that Vladimir Putin has handed

just a cheap and easy propaganda victory. So that's why it's going to be so fascinating to see how the White House tries to set this up, to see what Russia is going to have to concede before getting that meeting. Yeah, absolutely. And for the President of the United States, as Raf said, to travel to a meeting like this. I mean, we know Donald Trump. He likes to bring people to the White House to Maralago, where he's in control, would be an extraordinary step.

And as Ralph also pointed out, perhaps a dangerous one. probably be surprising, I would suggest, if he didn't go without some kind of a concession, but we will find out. The president's also grappling what is happening right now in the Middle East. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin and Yahoo says Israel intends now to take control of the entirety of the Gaza Strip. On social media earlier this morning, his office posted a series of goals, which Israel's security cabinet voted in favor of yesterday, including taking control of Gaza City, which is among the quarter of the enclave, currently does not hold. The other goals include disarming Hamas, the return of all hostages,

the demilitarization of Gaza, and establishing security control of that territory. Prime Minister Netanyahu offered more detail in an interview yesterday with Fox News. Will Israel take control of all of Gaza? We intend to, in order to assure our security, remove Hamas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza and to pass it to civilian governance. That is not Hamas and not anyone advocating the destruction of Israel. That's what we want to do. Are you saying today that you will take control of the entire 26-mile Gaza Strip, as it was 20 years ago to this month in 2005?

Well, we don't want to keep it. We want to have a security perimeter. We don't want to govern it. We don't want to be there as a governing body. we want to hand it over to Arab forces that will govern it properly without threatening us and giving Gazans a good life. That's not possible with Hamas. So, Rav, help us fill in the blanks here. Prime Minister Netanyahu says he wants the Israeli military to occupy the entirety of Gaza, that entire strip, to go in, but not to keep it, then to turn it

over to a yet unnamed Arab security force. What more can you tell us about this plan? Yeah, Willie, as you're indicating, there are a lot of blanks in this plan. So Israel Security Cabinet held this marathon meeting last night. They voted in the early hours of the morning, Israel time, to approve a plan to send the Israeli military in to seize control of Gaza City. Now, that on its face is a little more limited than what Prime Minister Netanyahu said to Fox News yesterday, which is that Israel plans to militarily occupy the entire Gaza Strip. It isn't clear at this point if taking Gaza City would be a first step towards eventually taking control of the entire strip.

There is deep opposition among Israel's military leadership nearly two years into this war. There is a feeling that Israel has achieved militarily all it can. And yet the politicians are sending the generals in now to ramp up this military offensive. There is deep concern, Willie, among the families of Israeli hostages we have seen in the past. Hamas executing Israeli hostages when IDF troops draw near. They are deeply, deeply frightened, the families of these roughly 20 or so surviving Israeli hostages that you could see something similar as Israeli forces sweep in again on the ground. And then, as you say, there is this major question about who controls Gaza on the other side of this war.

Netanyahu is saying there that he wants to see an Arab force governing it. He is not saying who that is. We heard a unanimous statement from the Arab League last week saying that they believe Hamas should give up control in Gaza, that they should lay down their weapons and that they should hand over control to the Palestinian Authority, the internationally recognized Palestinian semi-government. But in that security cabinet vote overnight, the Israeli government explicitly saying they will not allow the Palestinian authority to take control of Gaza. So at this point, despite fighting, for nearly two years, it remains deeply, deeply unclear whether Netanyahu has any kind of

long-term plan for Gaza. He does say Israel doesn't want to stay there long-term. It's worth saying that is not necessarily a consensus position inside the Israeli government. Some of the far-right members of his cabinet would like to see Israeli settlements re-established in Gaza on the other side of us. Willie? All right, NBC's Raf Sanchez. Thank you so much. We greatly appreciate your reporting. Let's bring in Jonathan Lemire right now. John, no doubt about it. There will be many, many people in the world community that find this a very disturbing move. There will be many people inside of Gaza, obviously outraged by it. But I don't think we can overstate how against this plan many generals and the idea. and Israel's own military feel about this. They are against this. They've been to Gaza before.

They've tried to occupy it before. There's a reason they gave it up in 2005. Same thing with the hostage families. This is a nightmare for the hostage families. Many obviously upset that Netanyahu's government hasn't worked more aggressively on this front and releasing the hostages that Donald Trump was able to do with a couple of phone calls and a little bit of pressure what Netanyahu had not been able to do.

But here you have a situation where Gaza is starving to death and we're hearing reports not only of atrocities committed against those that are trying to get that food and that aid from Israel, but we're also hearing that Hamas is stopping a large percentage of trucks from coming in there. So the question is, what would Israel do differently and how soon would these Arab states who have been volunteering quietly behind the scenes to bring in peacekeeping forces, how long would that be? It seems like a long and tragic quagmire lying ahead for all sides here. Yeah, it can't be overstated just how harrowing and desperate the

situation is in Gaza and where we could be going. First, to the point about the hostages, you're right. A number of hostage families have denounced this plan, fearing that the remaining hostages could be killed in the Israeli invasion that could be coming or perhaps by their Hamas captors as they're fleeing, your right to highlight. Joe, of course, this desperate famine situation. Israel has increased a little the amount of aid that's gotten into Gaza in the last week or so, but some has been stolen by Hamas. Others, these scenes of chaos there, the situation that Israel has created since the blockade went at a place a few months ago has led to a lot of violence and desperation as Palestinians there try to get even the smallest morsels of food

and supplies. And the United States has also agreed. I've reported, we've talked about on the show, that President Trump himself and others believe that Israel's military objectives have been accomplished there, but there's still no real push on this end to get, on the United States's end, to get Netanyahu to change course. Ralph made a key point there. This is the dream of a lot of the far right in Menjahou's government to reoccupy Gaza. And Netanyahu is beholden to them. He needs their support to stay in power, to avoid other elections, to keep his government going. Polls suggests if there were another vote, he would lose. So he's trying to placate them, and that's why we're seeing this push.

Meanwhile, countries around the world are responding to President Trump's sweeping new round of tariffs. That took effect yesterday, raising import taxes to the highest level since the Great Depression. In Switzerland, the government held an emergency meeting yesterday. to forge a path for future negotiations as the country faces one of the highest tariff rates in the world. Leaders in Brazil and India, two of the hardest-hit countries, spoke over the phone yesterday about boosting bilateral trade. That comes as President Trump is now touting new job numbers just days after firing the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics claiming without any evidence The figures the agency released last week were rigged.

Yesterday, he displayed new numbers found by an economist at the Conservative Heritage Foundation. The numbers are based on unpublished data from the Census Bureau, making it difficult to verify independently. I was telling the president that he did the right thing in calling for a new head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, because this shows that over the last two years of the Biden administration, the BLS overestimated job creation by 1.5 million jobs. That's a, Mr. President, that's a gigantic error. And I don't know if she's, I'm not making it. It might have been an era.

That's the bad part. It was an era. It would be one thing. I don't think it's an error. I think they did it purposely. In his first five months in office, starting in January through the end of June, The average median household income adjusted for inflation for the average family in America is already up $1,174. That's an incredible number.

Just came out. Just came out. So that's a giant game. And if I would have said this, nobody would have believed in. There's your number. Those Kinkgo charts brought to you by the same people that brought you Project 20, 25. So let's bring in right now, CBC Senior Markets correspondent, Dom Chu. Dom, those numbers, we don't know what those numbers are, Heritage Foundation, obviously,

as ProMaga, as any organization in Washington, D.C. This is the sort of thing, though. I'm sure your attitude is my attitude. It's all going to work itself out in the wash. We're going to know you can try to lie to reporters. you can try to lie to the press corps there, but you can't lie to the American people who have lost their jobs

or who have trouble getting jobs are just can't keep up with their bills every month. So what can you tell us about what we saw in the White House yesterday and what the economy really looks like? What the economy really looks like right now is all about perspective to your point, Joe. The idea here behind, at least the push by the Trump administration to kind of reframe these numbers is an attempt to

try to show America that his agenda is actually working. Now, there is evidence on all kinds of fronts here with regard to whether or not that's a true statement or not. But as you point out, when you do have Stephen Moore, the economist at the Heritage Foundation, kind of pointing out these numbers, there is a bigger concern on Wall Street that there is now a politicization of the statistics and the data that goes into telling all of us just how good or poorly the economy is performing. If that's the case, there is a real issue on Wall Street about whether or not the data is going to be something that can be relied on going forward. Now, the reason why it's a big issue is that for decades and decades now, the Labor Department, the Commerce

Department, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, all of the machinations that happen with regard to data gathering and data transmission to all of the parties involved in the U.S. economy have always been relatively apolitical, right? You have staffers that have been there for, you know, for years, made a career out of gathering survey data, out of counting things, out of putting that data out there so that we can all understand what's going on. Now, if there were a construct by the president right now to try to improve on what exactly is the survey methodology or the counting methodology for how we measure much of our economy with regard to GDP or jobs or anything else, then that would be welcome.

If you can find a better way to do things, then I think that Wall Street would be very supportive of it. But for right now, it appears as though when you march out people who want to emphasize certain things but not others, and then you. you put it against a backdrop of saying that the Bureau of Labor Statistics had been manipulating the data in the past with no real evidence of that, that's what's causing some of the uncertainty. I think a lot of the conversations I've had, at least with folks on Wall Street that I speak to on a normal basis, are about whether or not there is going to be any kind of a real change to

how they would gauge the health of the economy, whether or not they can feel as though they're getting an accurate picture. So that's one of the main reasons why we are seeing a little bit more of that kind of concern. Now, it is not, by the way, Joe, Mika, Willie, Jonathan, translating into at least a broad market move lower. We are seeing much of the market shake off, even the tariff threat, whatever is happening with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. There's a lot of focus right now on Stephen Mirren about whether or not the Fed is going to be more doveish going forward, but that's going to be the big deal. A lot of that emphasis on where rates are going to go

vis-a-vis the economic picture right now, guys. And it goes without saying that President Trump has not been critical, the BLS, when those statistics went his way, but now when they don't, these statisticians are suddenly members of the deep state. So, Dom, let's talk more specifically about the tariffs that went into effect midnight yesterday. So we're just about a day and a half into these massive tariffs on some of our biggest trading partners, our allies. You had the President of Switzerland actually flying to Washington to meet with President Trump to plea to get the 39 percent, 39 percent tariffs down. A miscalculation on the number. we put on Japan had to be corrected.

What is the fallout right now internationally now that this day has come, as promised by President Trump? So the fallout internationally, to your point, Willie, is far-reaching. I mean, as you point out, we have world leaders now not only trying to engage with the Trump administration and the White House here with regard to trying to figure out what new deals they can cut, but they're also trying to cut deals amongst themselves on a bilateral, trilateral basis between other parties. That is now translating into maybe what we are seeing with regard to some of the macro picture on the U.S. dollar. We've mentioned before that the U.S. dollar's value has been declining over the course of the last several months.

That also means, by relative extension, that when the dollar declines in value, other currencies, whether they be in emerging markets or developed economies like in Europe and Asia, those currencies go up in value. That's kind of the main rubber-meats-the-road market impact here. With regard to the U.S. stock market approach, it's somewhat much. more mixed. I mean, to be fair, we are still near record highs in the market right now. And even with the implementation, with that deadline and the tariffs going into effect on those some 90 countries and the increased tariff rates, the Dow industrials finished the day off one half of one percent

fractionally. Meanwhile, the tech-heavyer NASDAQ composite index was actually up nearly half a percent, and the S&P 500, the broadest measure of the large-cap stock market in America, was pretty much flat. So there is a sense on Wall Street, Willie, that people are still trying to figure out what's going on. But the general feeling is that we, unless we see real negative impacts flow through to the economy, through to the data, the aforementioned data, there's no read to panic just yet, Joe. Yeah, you know, it is, it is something we've been talking about it over the past several months. It does appear that at least Wall Street has absorbed the impact of these tariffs. As you said, you look at NASDAQ, you look at the big tech stocks, they continue roaring on.

The Dow's up around 44,000. So they've absorbed the shock of these tariffs. The big question remains for Wall Street and the world, what happens with those tariff talks between the United States and China? CBC's Don Chu, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate it. And I will say, Mika, also, on Donald Trump's nominee. for the Fed. He actually has sounded off as if he is an inflation hawk. He was critical of Jerome Powell, but he was critical of Jerome Powell for actually cutting rates last year. And his approach was,

and his attitude was, we can take the economy being down for a quarter or two. What we can't handle is runaway inflation. So if Donald Trump were looking for somebody who would automatically cut rates, at least based on what we've seen over the past year or two, his nominee is not that person. All right. Let's take a look now at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. The White House is pushing forward on a plan to increase federal law enforcement in the nation's capital.

The president has ordered a citywide security initiative in high traffic areas like key tourist destinations. President Trump has criticized the crime rate in Washington, D.C. for days after a prominent Doge worker was attacked in a botched carjacking on Sunday. Earlier this week, the president actually floated a possible federal takeover on the Capitol. Joe, this is what we've been talking about. Yeah, I mean, we don't want a federal takeover of the Capitol. Certainly don't need the National Guard in there, are certainly not Marines. But you look at Washington, D.C., and it's been dangerous for years. There have been, you know, a couple of years here, a couple of years there,

where it's been a bit better. But certainly over the past five years, it has just been an absolute mess. Its quality of life has been terrible. We've heard it from people that have gone there to visit or horrified that the nation's capital is as dangerous as it is. We've heard it from students. We've heard it from business people. We've heard it from people that work on the hill. I have 25, 30 years of friends asking,

really, this is how the nation's capital runs. And so anything that the administration can do to forge a partnership with the city that I've got to say its leaders seem unwilling to do what is required to keep city streets safe. That's something that's encouraged. Again, they don't have to federalize it, but just help the city, help themselves. If city council members continue to do things that undermine the security of the streets

and of the communities and the places, not only where tourists go where people have to go to work day in and day out, then yeah, we need the federal government be far more involved in the nation's capital. This is not Nebraska. This is the nation's capital. It should be safe for Americans and tourists from around the world to visit. Another topic we've been following here on Morning Joe, the Federal Aviation Administration is rolling out new steps to address some of the problems plaguing the airline industry, including the nationwide shortage of air traffic controllers. To counter that, the agency plans to hire nearly 9,000 new controllers over the next three years.

still. The hiring push is not expected to solve the growing deficit of qualified staffers as many face burnout and mandated retirements. And a Florida judge has halted all construction at the controversial immigration detention center known as Alligator Alcatraz. The temporary restraining order follows testimony over a lawsuit that alleges the center's construction did not adhere to environmental laws. The pause will last for two weeks, starting on Thursday, and prohibits everything from new paving to installation of infrastructure. The judge confirmed the order will not have any impact on the facility's immigration

enforcement activities. And still ahead on Morning Joe, NBC's Ryan Chandler will join us live from Texas with a look at his interview with Republican Governor Greg Abbott. amid the right to fight to redraw a congressional maps there. Plus, we'll bring you the latest on the Justice Department's request to unseal the Jeffrey Epstein files as some abuse survivors call the Trump administration's approach, a quote, cover up. And a reminder, the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning Joe.

We'll be right back. Beautiful morning as the sun comes up over New York City on this Friday in August. Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas says the FBI has approved his request for federal law enforcement to help to locate Texas Democratic lawmakers who left the state to block GOP redistricting efforts there. The administration official telling NBC News earlier this week, there were no plans to use federal agents to arrest lawmakers who had left Texas. The official saying Governor Greg Abbott, quote, can handle his own state. While a federal law enforcement official familiar with the situation tells NBC News, as of yesterday morning, FBI agents had not taken any action to attempt to locate those lawmakers as Senator Cornyn claimed. Joining us now from Austin, Texas, NBC News correspondent Ryan Chandler, Ryan. and spoke to Governor Abbott yesterday in an exclusive interview. Ryan, good morning. What did the

governor tell you? Willie, good morning. Republicans, like you mentioned there, Senator Cornyn, Governor Abbott, are all trying to make this as painful as possible for Democrats. Now about five days into this quorum break. Work here at the Texas Capitol is stalled as they wait for Democrats to return and give Republicans a quorum. Republicans are pulling out all the stops to try and force them home, including arresting them outside of the states. Up until this point, the narrative was, if you're outside of Texas, you're outside the jurisdiction of the Texas state troopers that could compel you to the Capitol, now they are trying to get an Illinois court to recognize the arrest warrant that is valid for them in Texas.

I spoke with Senator Cornyn yesterday as well. He said that the FBI could investigate possible federal felony bribery charges to, to escalate this from not just a civil arrest warrant in Texas, but to real felony charges that could land some of these Democrats in jail. I spoke to the governor yesterday at his residence about how all of this plays into the larger political picture, especially Willie, the urgent need for flood relief in Texas that is a priority of this special session as well, but up until now has really taken the back seat to the legislative progress on redistricting. Take a listen to some of our interview.

When President Trump says, though, that he is entitled to five more Republican seats, that's been the stated goal of all of this is to create five more red districts, right? He feels entitled to that. Should that not be a decision for the voters? Well, my job as governor is to be able to ensure that we have. have congressional lines that align to ensure that voters are going to be able to vote for their candidate of choice. And the way these lines are drawn ensures that voters who chose President Trump are not going to be trapped in a Democrat district, but instead they're going to be able to vote

in a congressional district that aligns with their philosophy. I'm sure you expected redistricting would be an intense political fight. Why not do flood relief first and get that urgent need out there and then have this political fight. Let's be clear about something. When I issued the special session agenda, which lasts only 30 days, the first items that I put on there were relief for all the victims of the deadly floods that we've had in the state of Texas. There's only one thing that's denying our ability to get legislation passed as these Democrats who have fled the state turned their backs on their fellow constituents. We appreciate the governor's time there. Willie, I also asked him if he thinks it's appropriate

for the FBI to get involved in this state political standoff. He said he's not going to get into the specifics of who may or may not be involved in this from the federal level. But he said that they are using every tool that they can to, quote, hold these Democrats accountable. The Texas House convenes again today and all eyes are on the House to see if there will be a quorum, but Democrats are showing no signs of letting up. They continue to be defiant. Today, some of them are heading to California to stand with Governor Newsom and former Speaker Pelosi as they continue this standoff, William. It is a standoff. NBC's Ryan Chandler live in Austin, Texas this morning. Ryan, thanks so much. Florida is now the latest state to consider redistricting efforts.

The State House Speaker said yesterday he's creating a select committee to look into redrawing congressional districts. Republicans in Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, also talking about ways to create new red seats ahead of next year's midterm elections all following Texas's lead. As for Democrats, Governor Gavin Newsom of California has said he will push for new maps if redistricting passes in Texas. And New York Governor Kathy Hockel promising to explore every option to redraw the maps in her state. If we don't fight for our democracy, we're doomed to lose it. That's how high the stakes are right now.

And New York State, our normal redistricting, the next election would be occur in 2032. I'm going to do whatever I can to literally change the Constitution of the New York State to allow us to have an election with the lines that we draw off. This is how they're going to play the game. We're going to fight fire with fire. I didn't want to take on this fight. I've always followed the rules. Democrats always follow the rules.

But when they're willing to do this to subvert our democracy, shame on us if we don't stand up. Governor Kathy Hokel of New York there. Let's bring in former Republican Congressman Carlos Kerbello of Florida. He is an MSNBC analyst. Carlos, good morning. Obviously, you served in the House of Representative. You know how this all works.

What do you make of this, first of all, the move in Texas that appears now it's going to Florida, Ohio, some other states may follow suit, but also this Democratic response to it in New York, in California, saying effectively, look, if you guys are going to play dirty. We're going to have to play dirty too. Yeah, that's right, Willie. It's a race to the bottom. I think in Florida would be tough to redraw the map in any significant way. Maybe they can get one more district, but there's a risk of diluting other districts and making other Republicans vulnerable. So I don't think Florida is going to make major news here. But at the end of the day, this is bad for everyone. I mean, Joe knows this having served in the House. It's so important for

states to have members of both parties representing them. I mean, we saw what that meant for the state of New York, where this whole salt issue, state and local tax deductibility, was not a major priority for House Republicans when the OBBB was being done, the reconciliation bill. However, because the state of New York had a small group of Republican lawmakers, they were able to get relief for their states. So this is important. I mean, we've seen states like California, blue state, but with some members of the House from the state, being Republicans, that's helpful to the state. And of course, when Democrats are in charge, the opposite is true for red states that happen to have Democratic representatives. The House is already dysfunctional. If we continue down

this path, it's going to get even worse. And at the end of the day, Willie, more and more Americans are going to feel underrepresented or not represented in this system. They're going to turn away from politics. So this is just a very dangerous game that's being played here. And at the end of the day, everyone will lose. Well, Congressman, you're so right. What people don't understand is when we have a crisis, when we had a crisis in Florida, whether it's when you were there or whether it's when I was there. If there was a Democratic president of the White House, I'd immediately go to my Democratic friends on the Democratic side of the House, would get together, would figure out how to make it work. If there was a Republican in the White House, they would come talk to

us. And we would get together and say, okay, here's our game plan. We'll go present it to the president. It'll help everybody in the state of Florida. And one of my favorite stories about they said I guess Americans, enough Americans don't understand this is how it works. You want Republicans and Democrats getting along. You want them to be able to help Americans on issues, side issues that may not be the red hot issues that are on the front pages of the Wall Street Journal or New York Times or our websites. But Ted Kennedy always told Mike Barnacle that he was close friends with Orrin Hatch. If Warren Hatch needed something, he'd go to Ted Kennedy and tell him what he needed. And Kennedy would say, well, Warren, I'm, obviously, I can't help you.

I can't get out of front of this bill. But come on, let's go over to my friend's office. He would be able to carry that in the state, and he'll be able to get out front of that and help you more. And it worked the other way, too, when Ted Kennedy needed something, he'd go to Oren Hatch. If Oren couldn't do it publicly, he would find the Senate members on the Republican side who could.

And what were they doing? They were fighting to help their constituents to make the country stronger, to make it better. That's what we lose with this stupid partisan gamemanship. That's right, Joe. And look, that whole process that you described at the end of the day makes everyone in the country feel like, well, even if my party lost, this government can work for me. Even if my party lost, if there's a big problem in my state, someone's going to look out for me. They're threatening to destroy that.

And I really think it's dangerous. And in the long term, it's probably going to end up hurting the people who are leading the people who are leading the effort. Look, if there's a blue wave next fall, some of these redistricting efforts only promise to accelerate that blue wave because it's going to make other Republican districts weaker. That's why you have a lot of Republicans in the House, Joe, they're not speaking up because, of course, this is a big presidential priority now, but they're worried about this. They think at the end of the day, this could come back to bite them. Yeah, and Congressman, I mean, this goes much further, and we see it in state after state, it's sort of the whole faith

the system will be undermined it, I think, in a really devastating way. Let's turn the brief. I know you've been following there in Florida, the Jeffrey Epstein matter. This is, as we were discussing earlier, a rare moment that President Trump simply can't turn the page. You can't shake a storyline. And it's coming from some of his biggest supporters. And I know there have been hope Mike Johnson sent the House home early that this story would dissipate during August recess. It doesn't seem to be the case. That's right, Jonathan. And it's because this. This issue is so fundamental to the president's base. You look at the House of Representatives, typically it's the swing district members who feel

the pressure, right, who are exposed. In this case, it's the hardcore conservatives, the MAGA base, the president's strongest supporters in the House who are demanding this information that the president has asked them to stop doing. So it's a very complex situation. It's not going to go away until Republicans address it in a meaningful way, unless they get Pam Bondi out there under oath, answering questions, unless they're able to release some information, this drumbeat is going to continue. And if they don't, then this really does

threaten their chances in the 2026 election. President Trump's a guy who has bet everything on his base. If his base isn't enthusiastic, if they're not motivated, that spells big trouble for House Republicans in particular. MSNBC analyst and former Congressman Carlos Cabello, very much for coming on the show this morning. And coming up on Morning, Joe, MSNBC Justice and Intelligence Correspondent. Ken Delanian joins us with insight on the firing of the former acting FBI director who was involved in January 6th investigations. We're back in 90 seconds. Welcome back to Morning Joe on this. Friday morning, a live look at Capitol Hale at 47 past the hour, a senior FBI official who briefly

served as acting director at the start of President Trump's current term has been fired with no explanation. That's according to two federal law enforcement sources. That official, Brian Driscoll, made headlines when he resisted a Justice Department directive to turn over a list of agents who had worked on January 6th cases. Let's bring in MSNBC Justice and Intelligence correspondent. Ken Delanyan, Ken, what more do we know about this dismissal? Good morning, Mika. This dismissal was actually part of a wave of firings of senior officials,

including Steve Jensen, the head of the Washington Field Office, who was heavily involved in investigating the January 6th cases, and a man named Walter Giardina, who was involved, in the investigation of Peter Navarro, that Trump advisor who went to prison for defying Congress. Giardina had just lost his wife to cancer a couple of weeks ago, and he was summarily fired. And this is a part of an ongoing purge that the Trump administration is conducting of FBI leadership. I posted a story earlier this week that noted that a large chunk of the special agents in charge across the country at field offices have been forced out of their jobs and that those firings

were disproportionately affecting women and minorities in those jobs. In this case, it's some senior white guys, but some pretty famous folks inside the Bureau. Brian Driscoll became something of a folk hero, as you mentioned, when he was named the acting director, accidentally, by the way, his name was put in the wrong place in a chart. And then he stood up to a plan by the Trump administration that seemed like it was poised to fire hundreds, if not thousands of FBI agents who had worked on those January 6 cases. resisted that, and yet he retained his job. And his continued employment in the Bureau, as well as Jensen and some of these other people, provided a little bit of hope that it was

possible to dissent from some aspect of Trump administration policy, or at least to push back and keep your job. Well, that day is over. The message has been sent very clearly, and morale inside the FBI guys, is about as low as I have ever heard it described as I talk to people. Let's move over to the Justice Department, Ken, which has hired a January 6th rioter who was captured on video, calling law enforcement Nazis and yelling, quote, killed them during the 2021 Capitol insurrection. And NPR just uncovered that video.

Take a look. You guys are disgusting. I'm former law enforcement. You're disgusting. You are the Nazi. You are the disbursed. stop or you can't see it because you're chasing the pension, right? Pinsing. You're retired. Right? That's what runs your life. You're a tired of it. The sad thing is they're not even going

to get their country because it's going to be an armless. And shame on you. Get the shame on it. All right. All right. That is former January 6th defendant, Jared Wise. He was not convicted of any crimes related to January 6th. following President Trump's order to end all capital riot prosecutions. NPR reports that Wise is now working as a senior advisor for the DOJ,

though his exact role at the department remains unclear. A DOJ spokesperson released this statement to NBR, quote, Jared Wise is a valued member of the Justice Department, and we appreciate his contributions to our team. Wise had previously served at the FBI from 2004 to 2017, where he worked on international counterterrorism and eventually became a supervisory special agent. Joe, where do we begin here? Well, I mean, you know, according to the NPR report and the video, you know, now have somebody

that's inside the most important law enforcement agency in America talking about if I, do I have it right Ken? Kill cops?

Is that the language? Kill them? Kill them? I mean, saying that, calling police officers that were trying to protect people's safety and government buildings, calling them

not. and the Gestapo. This is very bizarre coming from a political party holding up such a person that's calling for the killing of cops, very bizarre that he's working in the preeminent law enforcement agency in America for a president and a party who claim to be supporting law enforcement officers and claiming it's the liberals. that don't support law enforcement officers. What can you tell us about this? This person who at really the most heated time on January 6th was calling for the killing of law enforcement officers.

Yes, it's mind-boggling, Joe. I will say that Mr. Wise did express contrition for those comments during his trial. which was cut short when Donald Trump ended all the prosecutions of January 6 defendants and pardoned them all. But I think what we're seeing here is the consequences of an administration that has rewritten history. It's rewritten the history of January 6th. And as Donald Trump pardoned all the defendants, including those who assaulted police officers, and is now going about firing FBI agents who worked on those cases and FBI supervisors, and then hiring people who were part of the riot.

And, you know, to your point, Joe, I suspect if you polled most Americans, even most Republicans, they're not necessarily on board with this. This is a small fraction of the MAGA movement that is under these incredible delusions about the fact that there was no violence or that somehow the January 6th riot was justified.

But Donald Trump doesn't care. Those are the people that are empowered in his administration, the people that believe that way, the people that believe that the FBI was part of a corrupt deep state. In fact, the men leaning the FBI have expressed those beliefs for years. So regardless of what percentage of the population or even the Republican Party actually believes this or cares about it, these are the animating features of the Trump administration. They have rewritten history and they have co-opted the Justice Department and the FBI as tools of their political ends. And they're going about purging people who have beliefs that they don't like.

and they're hiring people that you would not expect. And this is a great example of that. Ken, as you say, the early second term here moved by President Trump to empty the prisons of January 6 convicts, people who attack police, attack the Capitol building, was an early indicator of how this second term was going to go for President Trump. You talked a little bit about morale inside the FBI, and we talked about somebody like Brian Driscoll,

almost a 20-year veteran, a respected guy within the FBI, had held some major posts, hostage rescue, things like that, for him to be dismissed effectively because he wouldn't turn over a list of agents who worked on these cases around January 6th with, as you say, anyone who's honest with him or herself or has a pair of eyes knows was a terrible day where criminal acts were performed. What is it like to be a career FBI agent, a career FBI official right now, or in the Justice Department for that matter? There is a climate of fear, Willie. I'll say that Driscoll actually survived resisting, turning over the list.

He was fired because he refused to fire one of his subordinates, an FBI agent who is a pilot, who was flying Cash Patel around on the FBI jet, but had previously worked on the Marlago investigation. And Driscoll stood up to the idea that that man should be fired. Now Driscoll's been fired, and that agent was also fired, according to our reporting. But to your larger point, morale is in the toilet. And there is a climate of fear where, for example, one of my sources is a special agent out in a field office somewhere and mentioned that a new special agent in charge came to talk to employees.

And this agent had a good reputation as a longtime career FBI official. But this new supervisor, every other word out of his mouth, every other sentence was effusive and obsequious praise for Cash Patel and Dan Bongino. And my source said he was just so disgusted, and it felt to him like in North Korea. He just thought that this man was debasing himself, and this is what it had come to inside the FBI, that you have to do those kinds of things to preserve your viability. So not only are people being fired, people who have the ability to retire are retiring. People are leaving for other jobs.

And so decades of counterterrorism, counterintelligence, white collar fraud experience is walking out of that building. and that will take a generation to rebuild guys. MSNBC Justice and Intelligence correspondent, Ken Delanyan, thank you very much.