Morning Joe - Key questions remain about suspect's motive in fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Key questions remain about suspect's motive in fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We have additional evidence, forensic evidence that has been processed. We'll be sharing that when charges are filed on Tuesday. So everything that we know confirms that this is the person. The why behind this, again, we're all drawing lots of conclusions and how someone like this could be radicalized. And I think that those are important questions for us to ask and important questions for us to answer. That is the governor of Utah saying the public will learn a lot more tomorrow when formal criminal charges are filed against the man accused of murdering conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

We'll be bringing you the latest on the investigation this morning. We're also paying close attention to Washington, D.C., where President Trump's 30-day takeover of the district's police force has come to an end, but may not be over. We'll explain that. Also, a big development in the New York City mayor's race with the state's governor throwing her support behind Zoran Mamdani. We'll tell you why Kathy Hokel decided to give him her endorsement. And we'll recap which shows got the most recognition at last night's Emmy Awards. Good morning. And welcome to Morning, Joe.

It is Monday, September 15th. And with us, we have the co-host of our fourth hour. staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. Special Correspondent for BBC News and the host of The Rest is Politics, podcast, Caddy Kay, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius, and senior writer for The Dispatch and a columnist for Bloomberg opinion. David Drucker joins us this morning. A lot to get to this morning. We'll start with what we're learning about the alleged assassin in last week's murder of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, who was taken into custody on Friday

following a 33-hour manhunt, is being held without bail at Utah County Jail. He was booked on suspicion of aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm, and obstruction of justice. Utah prosecutors say they will file formal charges tomorrow when the alleged shooter is set to have his first appearance in court. At this hour, key questions remain about the suspect's motive for the fatal shooting. Investigators are sorting through all the evidence, including the bullet casings engraved with messages about fascism, video games, and internet memes. Utah governor Spencer Cox told NBC News yesterday the suspect is not cooperating with authorities, but his roommate, who Cox said was shocked by the shooting, has been helping investigators. The governor added that the suspect was in a romantic relationship with his roommate who is transgender.

A federal official tells NBC News there is not a solid understanding of whether there is any connection between that relationship and the shooting. The governor went on to say the suspect had a leftist ideology, although he was not registered to any political party. Cox also described him as a once very normal, very smart young man who appeared to have been radicalized in recent years. Friends that have confirmed that there was kind of that deep, dark internet, the Reddit culture and these other dark places of the internet where this person was going deep. I believe that social media has played a direct role in every single assassination and assassination. attempt that we have seen over the last five, six years. There is no question in my mind that cancer probably isn't a strong enough word. What we have done, especially to our kids, it took us a decade to realize how evil these algorithms are.

So President Trump announced that he will travel to Arizona in the coming days to attend a memorial service for Kirk. That comes, as the president says, he hopes the nation will heal following the fatal shooting. But he also blamed what he called a radical left group of lunatics for standing in the way. In an interview with NBC News, the president added, this group, quote, doesn't play fair and they never did. He also singled out Democratic mega donor George Soros, saying he, quote, should be put in jail. Trump has suggested the donor may have violated RICO laws, but Soros' team says the accusations are false and outrageous. Conservative columnist David French has a new piece for the New York Times entitled

There Are Monsters in Your Mids Too. And David writes in part, quote, If we're convinced that political violence comes from only one side of the divide, then the temptation toward punitive authoritarianism is overwhelming. They are evil and violent, and they must be crushed. If, however, we accurately understand that America has an immense problem with violent extremism on both sides of the ideological aisle, even if, at any given moment, one side is worse than the other, then the answer lies in reconciliation, not domination. In fact, it's the will to dominate that magnifies the crisis and radicalizes our opponents. Violent acts aren't uniting our nation in introspection.

Grief and grace, they're separating us into warring factions. To get past this dreadful moment, more and more Americans are going to have to face a painful fact. Evil isn't confined to one side of the American divide. There are monsters in your midst, too. And David Ignatius, this has been the case for some time. We've had a swing back and forth, and we're going to be going through the history of political violence from the 60s forward. But obviously, we all saw during the 2024 campaign the assassination attempts at President Trump. We all saw in horror the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

We all saw in horror the assassination in her home, along with her. husband, the Democratic leader of the Minnesota House of Representatives. We also saw during that killing spree, the attempted assassination of a Democratic Senate majority leader while sleeping in his home along with his wife. We also certainly saw the attempt to burn down Josh Shapiro's home in Pennsylvania and later admitting the the man admitting that he wanted to take a hammer to his head, just like Paul Pelosi had a hammer taken to his head. In the case of the Minnesota slaughter,

you had a man arrested that had a hit list of 42 Democrats, a kill list, and we can go back and forth and we can go back and forth. I don't think it's particularly helpful, though, when you have one side pointing at the other side and saying, oh, this shows just how extreme one side is when many of these same people completely ignore Democratic leaders who were assassinated in their bed and actually mock and ridicule Paul Pelosi for being brutalized too.

I think most normal people that I talk to are deeply discouraged that this is happening on either side And nobody's trying to gain points, as David French said, there are monsters on both sides. And I really don't, I must say, I'm actually so shocked at the killing, but so disappointed by some of the reactions I've seen from the killing on both sides. So, Joe, it's a terrible long list that you just cited of all of the acts of violence against people on both sides. It's just, it's too long. And it's a reminder that as our colleague David French wrote so powerfully, there is evil among us. We know that from our Bible teachings, and we see it today every day on the TV screen.

We've had two powerful responses for the nation since the killing of Charlie Kirk. One is that of the governor of Utah, Spencer Cox. who has emerged, I didn't know much about Spencer Cox, but I sure do now. And his ability to say to people, you know, we have to find an exit ramp to use his phrase. We're on a death trip. I think he was profoundly right when he said almost every one of these mass killings has some connection with social media, something that infected the killer from the right or the left, whatever it was. and calling in a powerful way for unity and understanding.

And then we did have from the president, you know, a specific attack on the radical left lunatics who were horrible and horrendous. And, you know, that's the source of this problem. Peter Baker, New York Times, brilliant New York Times reporter, wrote last night that President Trump is trying to be the president of red state of America, We need a unifier who will speak to the whole country, whatever you feel, in the way that Governor Spencer Cox did. So as, you know, as your list, Joe, tells us we're in a dark place, and there's an exit

ramp that Governor Cox tried to describe for us, and we all need to look for it, we find it, head for it, you know, with all the power and a passion that we can. Yeah, and it's interesting, David, to see the Wall Street editorial real. or this morning praising David Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah. I think a lot of people have been. But David, in a sense, the question must be is why is Spencer Cox's voice so unique? Here we are in this moment, in the country, and we have become so used to so much division that we almost expect more of that division from our political leaders on either side.

And so to have, listening to Spencer Cox yesterday on the Sunday shows, what struck me is how he was prepared to be bold. He didn't mince his words when it came to social media describing. it as a cancer, describing the algorithms that drive us to division as evil. He was dealing in a world of facts and evidence rather than in a world where he was trying to take an event and use it for political gain. And it is. The sad thing is that his voice is so surprising to us in this moment. Do you see anyone else in that realm? Well, I'm sure there is. I think, you know, the issue is the incentive structure.

Utah has a different sort of incentive structure politically. It rewards this sort of political behavior. But as we've seen over the past decade in particular, politicians are often very wary of their own base. And then the incentive structures to raise money and to become popular and well-known within your party does not. acting the way Spencer Cox has been acting, being conciliatory, trying to be understanding, trying to point out the flaws on your side as well as the other side. It just doesn't play well. You know, the roots of this really go back.

One of the things I always found very interesting, back in the pre-Trump era, even in the Reagan era, when we thought politics was normal, was that there was one thing the parties always agreed on when I would interview political operatives, campaign operatives, even activists. Here's what they agreed on. The other side plays dirty. I wish we did, too. I wish we played as dirty as them because then we would win more often. And then what we found, and it's so ironic because this century we've seen power in Washington

swing back and forth, back and forth between Democrats and Republicans in the House, in the Senate, is that one of the parties wins an election, and they immediately, immediately declare this may be the last election we ever win. Everything is stacked against us. The system is rigged against us. We have to do everything we absolutely can now because we're never going to have power again. And of course, the public then says you went too far. They give power to the other party and they repeat the cycle.

And my point is here is I don't know how we get back to a place where both parties are willing to self-police and self-examine. And just for the sake of trying to lower the temperature like we do in our own personal relationships when we're not quite sure that, well, I don't know. I think maybe my wife's at fault. But I'm just going to say it was my fault because I love her and I don't want to fight anymore. We need more of that in politics given where we are after last week. And there just aren't a lot of voices that find it advantageous to do that. well and a big part of the problem there um and jonathan lemur we've seen it we've seen it since a tragedy

of charlie kirk a lot of it is that there are people on cable news networks there are people running podcasts that are talking about civil war of course they talked about civil war before but they're talking about civil war and needing to go after the left and and they're coming after us. We need to, you know, Elon Musk retweeting tweets in the hours after the tragic, tragic death of Charlie Kirk. But again, some of the same people that barely said a word, certainly didn't talk, call for civil war after a Democratic legislator this past summer, the leader of the Democrats got slaughtered in her home along with her husband by a man with a Democratic hit list. 42 Democrats, a kill list, we heard nothing about that.

We heard nothing from these people who are now talking about the need for civil war and to go after the left, the wackos on the fore left. We heard nothing about that after Josh Shapiro and his family were sleeping inside their home when somebody tried to burn it down and said they wanted to take a hammer to Governor Shapiro's head. We heard nothing about a civil war. Then we certainly didn't after Paul Pelosi. In fact, you will remember, as I remember very well, not only were they not talking about civil war, there were actually some people mocking and ridiculing Paul Pelosi, some prominent Republican figures mocking and ridiculing Paul Pelosi and Nancy Pelosi and even suggesting

that the man who attacked him was in a gay relationship with him for years. So there are these people talking about civil war now. Just, again, is baffling when they seemed so disinterested, when the killings, when the attempted killings, when the assaults were on the other side. I think, I think, again, every sane American, every American I've actually spoken to in person since the terrible, terrible tragedy, the assassination of Charlie Kirk had been horrified and asked the same question.

When is this going to end? How can we come together? How had one law enforcement officer say, how do we keep social media away from our children? How much longer does this continue? But we're just not hearing it from people that are trying to fan the flames and talking about civil war. I wish we could come together as Americans after a tragedy, after this summer, Democrats are slaughtered while sleeping in their bedrooms. And when Republicans are assassinated, going out talking to cops. college students, for God's sake.

Yeah. The prospect of an actual civil war is too horrifying to comprehend. And people, that rhetoric needs to go away. But that's not what's happening here. We're seeing figures on the right, you know, within moments of Carly Kirk's terrible death, rushing to blame left-wing activists for it, without any evidence, without even at that moment knowing who the suspect was. You are so right to point to the double standard here.

Some of the loudest voices of the Republican Party, including the current president of United States turned the attack on Paul Pelosi into a running gag. Trump will use it as a running punchline at his at his rallies. Paul Pelosi nearly died. The White House did not send a delegation to Minnesota this summer when that state lawmaker was killed. That didn't happen. And there's been an effort here to sort of cast about from the right, sort of pointing fingers at the left to sort of claim that Democratic politicians are reveling in Charlie Kirk's death. That's simply not been the case. People have been responsible. They've been mournful. This is an American tragedy. It's not just a Republican tragedy.

It's not a Democratic tragedy. It's an American tragedy. But there is this sort of sense of this could be a pretense for some sort of crackdown. And that would be just make things worse. It would fan the flames. There's so little we know yet about this shooter and his motives. And again, they almost shouldn't matter because what happened here, it's a culture and a society where we've had this rise in political violence.

We are awash in guns. It's clear. One thing we do know about this individual, a lot of time online that, the worries of, the dangers of social media become more and more clear each and every day. That's what we should be focusing on. And I'll just note the governor there from Utah said again, he said a few different times in the last couple of days. I think this is important.

He made it clear this, the killing of Charlie Kirk was the acts of one individual. It wasn't a conspiracy. It wasn't a movement. It wasn't about a political party. It was about one individual. And he seemed to be aiming that message straight at the Oval Office trying to say, look, this is a time for trying to bring a nation together. This nation is wounded, Joe Mecca, it is grieving, it is scared.

It's time for healing. It's time finally for a message of unity, not division. The nation does need to come together, and we need to stop, and we need to think. What kind of nation have we become when you can't have a political figure, a podcast, on a college campus, to debate politics, to, to aggressively debate politics. What kind of nation have we become when a president can campaign without having two assassination attempts on him? What kind of nation have we become when a democratic leader can't go to bed with her husband at night without fears of being killed in their home or a state

senator in that same state can't go to sleep with his wife without fears of being gunned down and killed. And this goes back. I mean, we could talk about all the anti-Semitic attacks. The anti-Semitic attack at the Israeli embassy earlier this year, the fire bombing out in Colorado We could talk about the tree of life. We go all the way back to 2017 and the congressional softball game, the practice there, and the scars that Steve Scalese still carry with him every day. We've got to do better. Our leaders have to do better.

People on media have to do better. People with podcasts have to do better. has to do better. Debate and debate aggressively. But never let it turn, never let it cross the line into violence. And when it does, we have to stand shoulder to shoulder as a nation and condemn it in its strongest terms, whether it happens in Utah, whether it happens in Minnesota or whether it happens in Butler, Pennsylvania, we have to do it, or this nation will continue to get

worse. And those calling for civil war, well, they may just get their wish. Years down the road, it'll take a while. But if that's what they keep preaching and that's what they keep practicing, God help us all. Still ahead on morning, Joe. President Trump is now looking to crack down on a crime in a Republican-led state will tell you which city he wants to send the National Guard to and what those leaders are saying about it. Plus, we'll delve into Governor Kathy Hokel's endorsement of Zoran Mamdani for New York City Mayor and what this means for the race. And a reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.

Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Long-time Republican Congressman Michael McCall of Texas announced he will not seek re-election next year. After serving two decades in office, McCall made the announcement yesterday on ABC's this week and said he plans to finish his term, but we'll be looking for a new challenge within the national security and foreign policy space. McCall, whose district include parts of Austin and Houston, was first elected to Congress in 2004 and previously chaired both the Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security Committees. The congressman joins a record number of lawmakers who've been eyeing exits since Donald Trump returned to the White House. Ten senators,

and 25 House members have already announced plans not to seek re-election. Democratic Governor Kathy Hokel of New York is endorsing Zoran Mamdani for mayor of New York City. Hokel revealed her endorsement in a New York Times opinion piece published last night, marking a major shift in the Democratic establishment stance. The governor wrote in part, quote, I didn't leave my conversations with Mr. Mamdani aligned with him on every issue, but I'm confident he has the courage, urgency, and optimism New York City needs to lead it through the challenges of this moment. Mamdani, a Democratic socialist and state assemblyman, won the party's primary over former governor Andrew Cuomo.

Hokel's endorsement comes after weeks of speculation as Mamdani has faced criticism over his past remarks about Israel and policing. And newly released documents reveal Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook did declare in financial forms that her Atlanta property would be a vacation home. The new documents obtained by NBC News appear to contradict the Trump administration's allegations that Cook committed mortgage fraud by claiming two homes as her primary residences. records show that Cook did not attempt to use tax exemptions that are available for primary homes in Fulton County, Georgia, and that she called her property in Atlanta a second home on a national security questionnaire that was submitted to the Biden administration back in 2021. The White House did not respond to NBC News's request for comment. So David Ignace, a few things come to mind with,

Chairman McCall is stepping down at the end of this term. One is he's been a stalwart champion of Ukraine and freedom and the fight against Russian imperialism, pushing into Ukraine, trying to take over that country. And a little more in the headlines right now. What's going on in Israel as we speak, we have the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, talking with Netanyahu and Israeli government. I suspect about the Cutter strike last week. Walk us through those two issues right now. Where are we on Ukraine and Israel? So just to say a word first about Congressman Mike McCall, he is an embodiment of the kind of center, left, center right establishment view on foreign policy establishment makes it sound sinister. But this was a consensus of people

who had shared ideas about the country, about protecting its friends standing with its friends and allies, and he'll really be missed. One thing that strikes me, Joe, as I look at the world right now, is that in two places where President Trump has tried hard to stop wars, Ukraine and the war in Gaza, he's been met with escalation by Vladimir Putin on the one hand. and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the other. I commend Trump's efforts to bring peace to both these places. I think sometimes they've been naive,

but I think he's really making the effort. The killing in Doha, the Israeli strike there, came as a group of Hamas leaders was gathering to discuss President Trump's latest peace proposal. And there's growing speculation that And in truth, the Netanyahu government doesn't want a negotiated settlement in Gaza. It wants to continue the war until it's got total surrender from Amas as opposed to negotiation. So I think this is a time when President Trump, if he really is serious about bringing peace to these places,

has to speak with a louder voice. He is the leader of the most powerful nation on earth. And to have his peace plan met in Ukraine, it's the best example, by a nearer. nearly a thousand drones from Moscow as he's trying to talk peace, that should outrage the president. He should say that's completely unacceptable. Gaza war is going to be harder to stop, if anything. But there too, the president has some good ideas. He just needs to follow through him. Katty, I know you have a question for David, but I'm just curious. Talk about where Europe is right now with a continued foot dragging from the White House on Ukraine, with those

sanctions with a strong response to the continued slaughter and killing of the Ukrainian people by Vladimir Putin. Well, I mean, we've seen a kind of shift from the president over the weekend on the sanctions now putting the onus, and from Lindsay Graham on the Sunday shows, putting the onus back on the Europeans to put secondary sanctions and tariffs on the Chinese and the Indians in a sense to join Donald Trump's effort. So it feels like there is more of a delay effort from the. White House at the moment in the face of this enormous support in the U.S. Senate for this sanctions

package. This feels like the president saying, okay, but hold on a second, we can't have that yet until the Europeans have it as well. David Drucker, how do you explain where we are now, given the meeting in Anchorage, given the deadlines that the president continuously sets that there was going to be a meeting between Zelensky and Putin, that the Russia. Russians were going to heed some of the White House's demands or else. And now, again, the Europeans have to put these secondary sanctions on before America will do anything more. America's not going to push harder.

How do you account for, for somebody who takes the art of the deal so seriously, the constant delaying, which leads to the position in Europe, amongst Europeans that I speak to, that actually President Trump is just not serious about putting pressure on Russia ever? Well, because it doesn't appear that he is or doesn't want to, right? I mean, I think one of the characteristics of Donald Trump's foreign policy is that nations that he can squeeze, where the United States is the bigger player, and that's most nations, but nations that he can squeeze in pressure, he squeezes in pressures. And nations that he can't, like China and Russia, he just simply doesn't. I think a good way to look at the dichotomy here is look at how, notwithstanding, you know, this ongoing effort to solve the problem in Gaza, look at the president's behavior

and strategy in the Middle East, where he has been willing to squeeze Iran. He has been willing to be, he's been willing to both finesse diplomatically, but use the U.S. military to give that diplomacy teeth. And when it comes to dealing with China and with Russia, he talks a lot of Or is correct. But when it comes to dealing with China and Russia in particular, look, Israel is a U.S. ally, and I just think that's a separate case. And people can disagree with the president giving Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government latitude to conduct the war in Gaza. But we're dealing with a democratic ally, and it's wholly different, right? China and Russia are known U.S. adversaries. They're acting like U.S. adversaries. And the president, number one, has used a very inexperienced diplomat, Steve Whitkoff, as his emissary, rather than Marco Rubio, the Secretary.

of state who knows these issues and knows the world really well, agree with them or not. And I think, number one, we have a failure of that strategy. But number two, the president is just unwilling to throw his weight around with countries where it is difficult to do so. I would say, however, that the president's point about Europe not doing enough to squeeze the Russians is an accurate point. And even though the president owns his failures here, the Europeans as a way to encourage him to act tougher and see if he might actually deliver, should be doing more when it comes

to dealing with Russia than they have been doing. I mean, the approach from the president the other day in this proposal about these sanctions, I mean, it's a not serious offer. It's a not serious proposal. NATO members to stop buying Russian oil, well, Hungary's not going to do that. Slovakia is probably not going to do that. Those are countries that are allied with Russia sometimes, or at least, you know, have warmer relations. You know, and the tariffs on China.

That's China, you know, obviously a piece of this because they're supplying much of Moscow's war machine. They're not directly involved in Europe. The EU tariffing China also a non-starter. Those seem almost like poison pills. So I agree with what the David's just said there that this is something that's just going to cause more time. There's going to be a delay tactic. It's yet another moment where the White House seems to be kicking the can down the road. And we, I've heard over recent days, you know, the president's embarrassed by what happened in Anchorage,

that Putin has only ratcheted up his attack since. I'm told he's certainly angry at Prime Minister Netanyahu for that attack in Doha. But at certain point, fuming needs to turn into action. Many, even Republicans are saying privately, they're pushing President Trump do something. But at least right now, Joe Mika, he's not. Nothing.

All right, the Washington Post, David Ignatius, and senior writer for the dispatch, David Drucker. Thank you both very much for being on the show this morning. And up next, Pablo Tori joins us with his takeaways from week two of the NFL regular season. We're going to have the Morning Joe football power rankings plus a check on the Major League Baseball teams in the hunt for October when we come right back.

Listen to this. And he took some snap out there, but expect him to ice it throughout this game. Thank you, Trace. Look at that move by Cook. Still going. James Cook. To the end zone for a touchdown. Yeah, they're just not playing for the field goal only.

There's golf. Oh, he does it again. After changing the play, Lamar. Backpedaling. He does this so well, and then finds it opening. He runs. up in throws toward the end zone. Cutts!

Touchdown Ravens! They go way back. Growning paintball. One hand! Are you serious? Seattle avoids disaster on third down. Now play action. Shotdown field.

Smith in Jigmas got it. Prescott. Looking long. Offs it up for pickings. Who's got it. Their end field goal range. All the way. Daniel Jones.

They got by one. Taylor gets by another. Oh, he's off to the races. A fun race is so ten. Here comes a thunder. There goes Taylor out of bounds at the nine. Oh, what a run. Blitz. Mahomes over the middle. Kelsey. Oh, he's picked off. It's McCuba who's got it. And room to run. One man to beat. And he's taken out. Hey, those are some of the big plays from the morning teams across the NFL yesterday, including the Philadelphia of Phil Eagles, big win over the Kansas City Chiefs and their Super Bowl rematch to Minneapolis.

And the Vikings hosting the Falcons on Sunday night football quarterback JJ McCarthy smothered all night by the Falcons defense, which sacked the Minnesota's single-culler six times and forced them to commit three turnovers. Kicker Parker-Rummo made five field goals in his debut for L. Atlanta. The Falcons beat the Vikings 22 to 6. A Monday night double header will cap week two of the regular season. The Texans ready to host Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the L.A. Chargers will visit the Las Vegas Raiders. That's bringing right now. The host of Pablo Tori finds out Metal Arc Media. MSNBC contributor Pablo, Tori Pablo, where do we begin? You know, it's interesting.

I mean, I almost feel like when we're talking about the best teams after week two before tonight's games, you really have to start Thursday night at Lambeau Field by just how extraordinarily well the Packers' defense. By the way, we had all the computers, all of our AI systems working together. Unvailing a power ranking. NFL power rankings. We have the Packers just dominant in Lambo. and the White out there, the Eagles two, the Bills three, the Lions four, and the Ravens five. Pick that apart and tell me who you thought the big winners were from Sunday. I don't dispute that the Packers are number one.

I just want to know who's on this committee because this is something that for the transparency that, of course, your viewers accept and only expect of my journalism, I was not consulted. So you guys have like, I presume a hotel. ballroom that you rent out and there's a whole deliberation and there are arguments and Lemire has a smoking jacket. Yeah. What's happening? We do.

We have, we have, we have, we, we rent out the Midtown Marriott. We're up all night. Willie, uh, Willie, uh, has a lot of smoking cigars in there. Yeah. That's right. And, uh, yeah. And then, and then we, we narrow it all down. And this is where you come out.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry. You don't have to be here. but it's it's a process all hey always trust the process okay pablo always trust the process wow i just presume the truth really seriously if you're a star wars fan it's yeah it's a point where luke asks obiwan about his father and he says you know by now it's actually more machine than man so i'm suspecting about 85% of that is machine generated and maybe i switch one or two around yeah that funny A, I think. But anyway, so now that you know that,

what's your takeaway from week two? Yeah, I mean, I want to start with the fact that when you look at that Lions Bears game, there are a couple of things for me as a guy who, I don't know, drafted Caleb Williams as his quarterback in fantasy is personally disappointed by as I watch your one-time Super Bowl pick, the Lions, just do whatever they want. The story of this, again, by the way,

a Star Wars kind of story, the master and the pupil, Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator of the Lions, gets hired to be the head coach of the Bears. And here you are. Here is Ben Johnson's Bears against a Lions team with Jared Garf once again, five touchdowns. So, okay, Detroit, now back in the conversation, back knocking on the door of your Marriott ballroom saying,

don't forget about us as the season progresses. Meanwhile, the Bears, it's just... I just feel horrible for the city of Chicago and its surrounding environs because this is a defense that is purely theoretical, and they have a quarterback who is also entirely just a thought experiment. Listen. And man, this is bad. I really, I wish you nothing but good things.

But I don't know how you drafted Caleb Williams as your quarterback after hearing me for a year talking about how Caleb Williams was going to be a bust from the day after he got drafted by the bears he's just not on that level he just not and i'll tell you what what's so interesting about the lion's victory and the you know the lions crushed the bears and you say they're back in the conversation why were they out of the conversation because they played the packers first so now you have the packers taking two really good teams yes and actually for the first time jaden daniels i mean that guy scrambled 17 times he made 14 yards, that defense, suddenly you're thinking, hey, maybe, just maybe the Cowboys

shouldn't got, should not have gotten rid of Micah. I mean, it's just again, this is a complete team. I want to talk about quarterback injuries. So Joe Burrough, Brock Purdy, Justin Fields, all out. The one thing interesting coming out of that is that actually Mack Jones showed up in San Francisco and put a very good game together, won the game. The noises emanating from the side of the table that has Lamar on it is just, how does that feel?

How does that feel for Mack Jones to be resurgent? Resurgent after abandoning, of course, you and your Patriots. I don't blame him for that. That was sort of the end of the Belichick era. He didn't have any help at all from an offensive coordinator. He didn't have an offensive coordinator. So it is what it is. But yeah, there resumes there.

The borough injury is tough. That's the one I want to focus. Gasson. It's just because you have, I mean, look, if you're a football fan, John, you know that Joe Burrow has been, there should be an animal worse than snake when you say someone like Joe Burrow has been snake bitten. Yeah. This is a guy who has every, this is a guy is what a football commentator says. This is a guy. This is a guy whose legs have failed him. But more to the point, you could argue, his offensive line has failed him. His team around him has failed him. His defense has failed him. The fact that Joe, the bank Ingles didn't have a cart to take him off the field is a failure. He's limping off like it's the 60s. You guys have cart technology in Cincinnati, I believe. So all of this is just like, I don't know how we stress about quarterbacks being

billion dollar assets and you don't take care of yours like that. It's just, it's horrific from a football perspective. I mean, they could have at least gotten one of those like 1970s carts from Riverfronts stadium where they would cart out the really, really fat relief pictures from the bullpen to the mound. People don't remember that happening. But yes, we used to be a proper country. We used to be a proper country. You know, I've got to follow up with just hurting for Joe Burrow. You know, John Lamere, one of my sons asked me, Daddy, why do we hate every team that ever beat Alabama? That's not how Jacks. Daddy. That's not how many of them talk, but I don't.

I thought it might be. Dad, why do we hate every quarterback that beat Alabama except for Joe Burrow? Why is Jackson is? Because Joe Burroughs, because Joe Burrow was so damn good. Jack's Carville. But he is. How do you not root for Joe Burrow? It's heartbreaking.

But let's talk about what was lined up is really the game of the week. Should have been the game of the week. The Super Bowl rematch. And as we predicted, Pablo Lopold. And that's why we don't allow him in the ballroom, as we predicted, the Chiefs once again, struggling, lock it, deadbolted. The Chiefs, O and 2. Morning Joe, power rankings, no sign of the Kansas City Chiefs. Let's be clear, this was not a great game.

Both defenses played pretty well. I mean, the Eagles did just enough on offense. Their defense was great. And I think this is the storyline here. Yes, that's a good run from Mahomes. But he didn't do much else. He missed a couple of guys wide open throws, though the biggest play of the game right here, not his fault.

He's got Kelsey there at the goal line. Maybe he's in, maybe he's not, but the drive is going to continue. Kelsey simply drops it, and the ball bounces up into the hands of the Eagles defender, who then runs it back. That kind of was the end of the game. You know, they sealed it off as soon as their effort.

So, Pablo, let's talk cheat. First of all, the Eagles, two and O, they're taking care of business. They look fine. Their defense looks good. You figure the offense will continue to wake up as the ear goes on. Set them aside. Let's talk Kansas City. Oh, and two.

Look, schedule's been tough. Yeah. You know, their infrastructure has earned the benefit of the doubt. That said, this offense is not what it used to be. Mahomes does not have the weapons he once did. And the quarterback himself has not come through in the clutch last year or two like he used to. Yeah. So as somebody who had that game that you just saw clips of as his Super Bowl pick for this season,

the troubling part for me and, of course, Claire McCaskill. is that the thing about Mahomes is that he hasn't quite looked like Mahomes during the regular season, especially, first halves of the regular season, especially, for a couple of seasons now. And so from that perspective, the legend of Mahomes, and the reason why I still continue to be a Mahomes stockholder is that it feels obvious that this guy is the preeminent magician, Joe, in the NFL. He should be pulling wins, as he's always done, out of his keister. And in this case, there was no rabbit. It was something else. My friend, the keyster is closed. Let me tell you something.

What he did over the last two seasons, I think it's pretty remarkable and speaks to how he can take an average to pretty good team to incredible heights. And so, yeah, I think so. I'm afraid, though, what he was able to do two years ago and last year. I mean, just this year, it's passing. It really is. There's only so much he can do. I thought last year in the year before

showed what a great quarterback Mahomes was. Just this year, it's too much. They can't do it again. Pablo, let me show you something. At the very end, we hate to do this. We're in Midtown Manhattan. It's a keyster. You show me a keyster.

We have to pick the worst New York teams, number one. And let me just say, with a big star, number one, the New York Jets. Pablo, how bad? This is a team I love, by the way. First Super Bowl I remember was 69. I barely remember it. But I've always had a special place in my heart for the New York Jets. And as always, the New York Jets break my heart. Why are they so bad? Yeah, look, I get the whole, like, Namath, Alabama to the Jets pipeline that made you, on some level, sympathetic. But now you think of Joe Namath holding his finger up in the air.

and thinking, he's saying they are the number one worst team in the New York area. The Jets. Wait, it's in my power ranking. Look at the power ranking. Nobody knew that, let's put it up, T.J., nobody knew that when name it held up that finger, he was not only talking about 1969, but he knew this day was coming on Morning Joe, but go ahead. The question of like, why are the Jets the worst is kind of a philosophical riddle that the

great scholars of our time have failed to summarize in the time you've allotted to me. It probably starts with whatever was underneath the stadium that they built upon. It probably continues to the whole idea of, I don't know. Look, you said it, not me. But the whole idea that Aaron Rogers comes in and proves you wrong in week one, and now you're just back to being curb stomped, I don't know. it feels sad. Can you get that out of Chiron?

It's sad. It's always sad. It's always sad. I mean, people that, people that serve curb your enthusiasm know that actually a character and curb killed themselves because of the New York Jets. They were so bad. It's a terrible, terrible team. And it is, it is very sad.

Number two on the list, of course, I've got to say, I love to, other than the Jets, hate New York team. But the Giants have always left me cold. They have the soul of Microsoft. So I don't really like them. I don't hate them. But they are the second worst. They are the second worst team in New York right now, Lamere.

Why do they keep coming up short? They're at least entertaining this year maybe. I mean, they played a classic event. I mean, a game that will mean nothing by the end of the season, but a really fun game against the Cowboys yesterday that featured, I believe, five leaf changes in the fourth quarter. The Cowboys kicker hit a six. 64-yarder, like it was nothing at the end of regulation to send it to overtime.

Cowboys do win, and we should note, Joe Mika, that last team on the list here, the Mets, did win yesterday. They did win yesterday. Finally. Finally. But that comes after an eight-game losing streak that has almost cost in their playoff spot. They're just barely ahead of the Giants hanging on for the last wildcard in the NL. I mean, seriously, the Mets, the number of times I've checked the standings in the Mets are either five, six, seven game losing streaks. It's happened all year.

It is absolutely staggering. There they are. And maybe they'll hold on if they can snap out of, you know, snap out of it. But that's a team. You want to talk about a team that is an enduring mystery on how they can be as bad. Finally, I do feel, Pablo, we have to go. But I do feel like we need to talk about two standouts, though. Caviots on what I said about the Giants.

Malik neighbors had a great day. yesterday. The second year, Star, had a great day. And you know what's coming next, Russ Wilson, until he decided just to whip the final ball up in the air and blow the game. Dark side of the moon ball is what the back page of the post has on Russell Wilson. And look, for those not familiar with Pink Floyd, you know, pick your favorite song. It does feel like a strange drug to be on, the Russell Wilson experience. And look, I just want to know, Russell, though, 450 yards yesterday, more yards that he's ever thrown before. Yes, an incredibly strange trip.

It is the dizzying highs and then the, of course, puzzling lows. And I just want to know, why is Meacham on the committee and not me? Who else is in there? Who you guys got? Is Rev's in there? There you go. It's a secret. I can't tell you.

It's a secret. Pretty much everybody. We can't tell you. Another brick of a ball. Pablo Tori. Thank you very much. He in there? Lamere.

Oh, Sam's definitely in there. Let me get another bolt for the door for next way. Yeah, we're going to need a bigger bolt. Caddy. Caddy's there too. Caddy didn't know what football is. She's there. Oh.

Of course she is. Of course she is. Of course she's there. Yeah, just stop. All right.