Morning Joe - Michigan U.S. Senate debate dominated by personal attacks

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

October 9, 2026: 7am — Michigan U.S. Senate debate dominated by personal attacks To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If you lose the house, whose fault is that? If we lose the house, it would be because the people were misled. It doesn't fall on your shoulders? I don't know how it could be. I mean, I'm traveling nonstop. I've traveled and campaign more than anybody who's ever held a position. If, heaven forbid, if we lose this majority or whatever, I don't know what my next chapter of life is.

I'm just open to it. And if God moves on our hearts and says we should go back to my hometown of Shreveport and start a lawn business, I'll do that with equal. I mean, I just want to be my highest and best use to God and to my country. Well, I sure would have been great for God to move his heart for God and country when he felt the need to lie about what Donald Trump was doing or to apologize for what Donald Trump was doing or to be part of a process where there are people that Jesus would be comforting first and foremost, but he's an active part of those people being brutalized, children being brutalized.

This is not Theology Day, but there are a thousand different verses in the gospel that would suggest that he did none of that. And it's just been, it has been a bleak year and a half. Very. And very, very, very depressing for people who actually believed that these people would go into Congress. and protect the border, but actually focus on... Follow the Bible and the Constitution. Follow the Bible, follow the Constitution, and to make their lives better. They've done none of those.

It would have been nice. That was House Speaker Mike Johnson on Fox News yesterday, floating the idea of returning to Louisiana if his party loses control of the House in the midterms. Joining the conversation, we have the host of Politics Nation on MS now, Reverend Al Sharpton. He is president of the National Action Network and former U.S. Senator MS now political analyst. Claire McCaskill is here with us as well. Willie, we had a lot of, a lot of debates last night.

I've got to say this sound fight of the evening came from the Georgia debate. I'm not going to kill Hamlet in the first act, but John Ossoff, who, he threw a couple of haymakers last night. Yeah, they might have stopped the fight after that point. I mean, you had Georgia, Michigan. You had another one in Maine. They're running like a three-game set. We love it. The more the merrier in these conversations for voters to see.

But let's start in Michigan. Democrat Abdul al-Said, former Republican Congressman Mike Rogers, faced off for the first time in this race, spent most of the evening kind of talking over each other and attacking each other. But what my friend here just wants to do is he's kind of like a glitchy AI chatbot is say the same thing over and over and over again. but let me tell you this. He has taken money from groups associated

and support the Muslim Brotherhood. He has taken money from individuals on his campaign who openly support Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda. But that's what happens when you've got a ridiculous leader like Donald Trump, who does not know what he's doing and jumped into this war for God knows what reason. And the whole time, my opponent backstopped it. Win, win, win.

Are you winning? Are we winning? Is anyone actually winning? that's the kind of policy you're going to get from a guy who wants to be a sock puppet for the Trump administration. No thinking, no thought. Whatever Donald Trump says, jump. He says how high. This is a guy who has not been serious about providing people health care his entire career. What he has been serious about is making sure that he can monetize his time in public office, $14 million, two yachts, a McMansion in Florida.

So at the end of the day, I'm a doctor. I want people to have health care. But he has consistently not telling the truth. Well, let me just say it. He's lying. So he lied about being a physician. He lied now about being an Egyptian citizen or not being an Egyptian citizen. I can't figure out what he is today. But this impact what he's trying to tell you where he wants you to be. That's a con man. He wanted to make this about him or me. But the question is about you.

Can you afford your gas? Can you afford your groceries? Under this guy who's going to rubber stamp everything Donald Trump tells him to rubber stamp, you're going to continue to pay way more out the nose because he works for corporations. Donald Trump. There's a lot in there. No evidence that Al-Sayed has any ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, despite all the suggestion through the debate that perhaps he's linked to terrorist groups. He also does have a medical degree, though he's not a practicing doctor. The debate would become more personal later when Rogers invoked El-Sayed's birth mother while talking about the topic of flock surveillance cameras. Those programs were really, really important in catching people who were suspected of terrorists.

and committing a terrorist act, that's really, really important. And why would that bother you? Well, if you have someone in your family that might be on the side of the watch list. Are you going to go ahead and say that I'm a, go ahead and say it. No, I'm going to say what. Did you not have family on? Did you not? Just say it.

No, I haven't been tiptoeing it. Do you know why? Because of your policies, because of your policies. That's so right. That literally use surveillance. Use surveillance. So I'm just saying, if you want to come out and say something, go ahead and say. No, no, well, let's do this.

Let's open up this can of worms. I'll tell you what my mother did. She was a small... You go after my mom? I'm not going after your mom. What your mom was working at, I was going off to that organization, that was indicted for funneling money to al-Qaeda. Look, that's your mom.

My mom worked at a law, smoke, chamber of commerce. I'll put my mom up any day for that. All right. We'll give you a rebuttal, and we're moving away from this subject. He wants this to be about anything but his own record. He's okay if the federal government is... He's okay. The federal government spies on you, but he wants to make this about anybody else.

Going after my mom, my sister. Got nothing to actual say about me. I'm a dad and a doctor. So News Nation hosted that debate, posted its own fact check last night. Al-Sayed's biological mother worked for a charity known as the Islamic American Relief Agency, which was convicted of illegally sending funds overseas, but not for terrorism-related offensive. El-Sayed was raised by his biological father and his stepmother. in the state of Michigan.

Joe, if you watched that debate last night, Mike Rogers drifted in nearly every topic away for, you can understand why, from prices, from all the things that are actually affecting people. And all this innuendo and the suggestion that the guy is standing next to me, who's basically a lacrosse bro from suburban Detroit

and went to the University of Michigan, that he is an other, that he's probably, look at him, look at his name, he's probably linked to all these names. I'm going to throw out al-Qaeda. I'm going to throw out all these terrorist organizations, all innuendo. Yeah, and you know, he didn't look comfortable doing it. I've known Mike, and Mike has always been a nice guy, and you can tell he was very uncomfortable with what he was doing. It doesn't really forgive what he was doing last night.

He was trying to scare people. of Islamophobia was laced throughout his comments. But it just didn't work. And it didn't work in part because it was halting. But there's a second reason it didn't work, Claire McCaskill. And El-Sahed was very good, going back to actually the issues that do matter here, the issues that matter, the price of gas, the price of diesel, the price of groceries, the price of rent, the price of housing.

But also, there's some other issues that, again, If I were running against somebody this term, and they supported flock cameras, they supported data centers, they supported the unfettered use of AI, man, I would be, that would, you know, I'd have a one-two punch. So the punch one would be, of course, the economy, but the two punch would be somebody, as Mike Rogers just did, who supports flock cameras and government surveillance of everything people do and data centers and all these other things. He's on the issues, he is wrong on just about every single issue for Michigan voters.

Yeah. It's sad to watch. I knew a Mike Rogers once who was respected. I knew a Mike Rogers once who was considered a great authority on intelligence and foreign policy. This Mike Rogers had one job. last night. And that was to trash his opponent because I believe their campaign is convinced they can't win any other way. You've got a president who's undercutting Michigan on tariffs, on relationships with

Canada. You have a president who started a war of choice against everything he campaigned for. And you've got Mike Rogers being on Team Trump. So Mike Rogers, what that debate showed me is Mike Rogers knows he's losing. And his only chance is to scare people about, as Willie said, a lacrosse playing University of Michigan graduate with a medical degree that wants to make sure everybody has health care. Yeah. You know, I've run in this type of campaign in 94, and I can tell you the most powerful thing El-Sayed said last night was that guy is going to be a rubber stamp for Donald Trump. So powerful, especially in a year. Let's show this approval. rating right now, the Pew approval rating that we showed at the top of the six o'clock hour.

This is when you talk to people through the years that talk about what's the most important thing in off-year elections, they'll say, look at a president in office, look at his approval rating. And if, you know, if the number's high, then the party in power is in pretty good shape. If the number's low, then they're in terrible shape. This is very bad for Mike Rogers. It's very bad for, you know, every other Republican running. Donald Trump's approval rating in Pupole is just at 30%. I've only seen it that low two other times. One time George W. Bush near the end of his term.

And the other time was Donald Trump after he'd led an insurrection to try to overthrow a democratically elected president and just led to absolute chaos. So but the, but to be able to say, hey, listen. Doesn't matter what this guy is saying. What you need to know is this. You can't afford gas. You can't afford groceries. You can't afford your rent. You can't afford your credit card payments. You can't afford to get by every two weeks. Inflation's going up. Your wages are going down. Your life is getting tougher. You know who's responsible for that? Donald Trump. He's got a 30% approve rating. And that guy I'm running against is going to be nothing but a rubber stamp for Donald Trump. So your life's not going to get better. Chances are very good. It's going to get worse. And that's a powerful message for any of these Democratic candidates right now. And because these are the midterms, they have real data that hardworking Americans can refer to that has caused the state of our economy.

Whether it's the tariffs, as Joe mentioned, the war with Iran driving up gas prices. And also, quite frankly, these horrific, violent, traumatic ICE arrests, that also, what they're doing with undocumented is affecting the economy as well all around people. know this is Trump's economy. Let's go to Michigan. MS now congressional reporter Michael Schnell joins us live from Sterling Heights. Tell us more about what you're hearing about, especially the reaction to the debate. Yeah, good morning, guys. There was obviously a lot of anticipation ahead of last night's debate. I think it's clear why these two candidates, Mike Rogers and Abdul al-Sayyad, really wanted to go after it on the issues, but also on the personal attacks. Sparks were flying. They were debating the second properties that they own. They were

debating Abdul El-Sayed's name. But behind all of that bluster, there was a lot riding on this debate. Both candidates went in with risks and things that they needed to accomplish. For Rogers, he was traversing this Trump minefield for El-Said. He needed to navigate how to unite the Democratic Party and particularly calm the nerves of some Jewish voters who were on the fence. There were no tripwires that were set off last night, but there were certainly interesting answer. Starting with Rogers, you guys mentioned this already, he ran away from Trump on a number of issues. He reiterated that the Iran War needs to come to an end. He also reiterated that the Canada tariffs need to come to an end and some sort of trade deal needs to be struck there.

Interesting enough, Mike Rogers said he actually spoke to Howard Lutnik this week to talk about a trade deal with Canada. And then there was a new area where he moved away from the president and that was on immigration. You guys were just talking about those ICE enforcement efforts, particularly in Minneapolis, what we saw earlier this year with those two officer involved deaths. Mike Rogers said that those probably went too far. Now, after the debate in the spin room, Mike Rogers and also I took questions for a few minutes. I pressed Mike Rogers on the Trump question. A few days ago, the president said he plans to go to Michigan within the next week and a half.

There are no indication of when that will happen. I asked Mike Rogers directly, do you want President Trump to come to Michigan? And if he did, would you appear with him? I didn't get a direct answer. Take a listen. Earlier this week, President Trump said he plans to come to Michigan. Would you want him to come here to campaign with you in the final stretch to election day? And if he comes, will you appear with him?

What I think the national people are missing here, those tariffs that he imposed saves the cherry farmers up by Traverse City. Save them. That's their own words, not mine. So I would welcome to have the conversation with the 3 million families that benefited from no tax on overtime. I mean, I talked to a guy, got $3,500 back last year.

That's real money. So, yes, he'd be welcome. I'd love to have him talk to those people. people and get them fired up. Guys, any cycle you would expect that the Republican candidate endorsed by the Republican president would have an easy, simple answer that, yes, the president should come and yes, I will appear with him. Clearly, we did not get that.

El-Sayed also put on the defensive last night. He was pressed on an answer he gave to a question recently asking if Iran or Israel was a biggest threat. Once again, he did not answer it, calling it a hypothetical and degrading the question. If you didn't get enough last night in the debate, there's going to be another one later this month. I expect more sparks to fly then again. We'll be watching.

MS now is Michael Schnell reporting live for us from Michigan this morning. Michael, thanks. We mentioned the Georgia debate as well. Democratic incumbent John Ossoff and his Republican challenger Mike Collins faced off for the first time last night, trading sharp attacks over racism, the economy, data centers, the war with Iran and Trump's tariffs.

Take a look. Congressman Collins, your opponent rarely mentions your name without calling you a bigot. though many feel you have not adequately addressed the fact that your son-in-law is a white supremacist social media influencer, and several members of your staff have been linked to racism and anti-Semitism. Take Georgia voters to your family dinner table. What specifically have you said to your daughter and son-in-law about his posts? And will you, once and for all, denounce white supremacy?

I've condemned racism, anti-Semitism, hate. I don't care where the source is. And I tell him that too. It's wrong. We have no place in this world for that. But I've never heard him say a word about his DSA pick up there, Abdul El Saeed, Hassan Piker. How about Reid Hoffman? None of those. He doesn't announce anybody or anything. Just think about this. When you are paying more for your health insurance, when a hospital in your community is closing down, Mike Collins voted to take that money out of your pocket and out of your community and give it instead to data center developers.

And that's the problem, Mike. It's not just that you've hired half the Third Reich to staff your congressional office and you have promoted neo-Nazi content online. It's that you're robbing your constituents to subsidize your donors. These tariffs are crushing our state and will repeal those tariffs. And I'd like to hear the congressman explain why he voted for them over and over and over again. It costs more today than at any time in American history to stock your fridge, to fill up your truck, to power your home. Diesel is up 70% since Donald Trump was elected president. Ground beef and coffee are up 30%.

These tariffs have crushed families and small businesses in Georgia agriculture. He doesn't understand business. That's okay. And we continue to become more independent. As we continue to make sure that we have a fair shot for America. It should be America first. We have bowed down to the rest of this world and took it from companies or countries charging us tariffs over and over again. We shouldn't be doing that.

Sharpton, John Austin, is good at this. He has had a knack this entire year coming up with sound bites that go viral on social media. He had a couple last night as well. But I actually thought right there at the end, that very methodical laying out, how the impact of Trump policies have made life more expensive for those in Georgia, but those across the country. That works. And more than anything, that is what this election is going to be about. That is exactly what this election is going to be about. I've been on two. I've been in several states. the last seven days, people are concerned about their basic living expenses, gas going up, and groceries going up, and on and on and on. And I think that what Allsoft did was addressed that. I think that the other issues that are being raised don't help the Republicans, both in Michigan and in Georgia, because they align with the one who's responsible for this. I was watching, I joined Meeker's opening with Mike Johnson, quoting the Bible.

Amos 3 and 3 says, how can two walk together unless they agree? You can't defend Trump, stand with Trump, want Trump to campaign for you, and not say to people, you agree with what he's doing. Well, agreeing what he's doing makes me pay higher gas prices, higher grocery prices, etc. And I think that they are going to be ensnared by their alliance with a president who, clearly doesn't care about the politics of 2026. All right. Thanks, Rev.

Our next guest is running in a closely watched congressional race in Florida's 13th U.S. district. Democrat and retired Army Brigadier General Lila Gray is putting up a fight there against Trump-backed Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna. Gray has served 30 years in the U.S. Army, both active duty and reserve. Luna, meanwhile, is running for her third term in a district that typically leans heavily Republican. And General Gray joins us now. General, thanks so much for being with us. This is a district that's usually solid red, but recent polls, based on news reports that I've been following, suggests the race is getting much closer. Talk about the race.

Talk about the difference between you and your opponent and what the prospects are for your victory. So this race is really about the things that you just talked about in your earlier segments. It is about the cost of living crisis that is gripping our community. And you know this all too well because you're from Pensacola. And I just want to make a comment that I hope that your friends and family are safe as this hurricane approaches. Because, you know, as a Floridian, the cost of living crisis is exacerbated by the cost of insurances here. And so, you know, we're on the, today is the two-year anniversary of Hurricane Milton. And so people are still rebuilding and still, and the businesses are still recovering as well.

So, you know, this is really real for everybody. You talked about the prices. And I actually have some numbers, $1,200 at least for families because of this reckless war of choice in Iran. $1,700 at least for these illegal tariff taxes. And then recently I received some information data that the health care costs for the people right here in our district are going to go up about $5,300 for many of the constituents here per year. And most people don't have an extra $8,000 sitting in their pocket.

It is unconscionable what's going on today. And Luna is a big part of that. You talk about what's the difference. The difference is that I'm showing up and listening. She won't even, you know, actually accept my debate challenge. That tells you everything you need to. know about her. She's too busy chasing headlines, too busy worried about space aliens to show up actually for her own constituents and even hold a town hall, much less debate me.

General, thank you for all the years of service you've had. It is amazing. And I want to just ask you, the person you're running against is I put in the category of a performance politician. She is someone who's always looking for the viral moment. She's someone who wants to be out on the edges screaming to get more attention. Hey, look at me. What is going on with Republicans in your district that aren't hardcore MAGA? Do you have any signs that they are tired of performance politicians, especially when they're paying such a high price just to get by?

That's exactly right. Your assessment is correct. you know, clearly Luna is driven by her vanity. That's why she's always chasing these headlines. And you know the type of person. They come into a room. They make a lot of noise. And they do the job half ass.

And that's Luna. So they're tired of that. They want people that are going to show up, listen to what's going on, learning about the issue, and help lead on the problem solving. And that's what I'm offering. In fact, I am hearing that from Republicans. I'm hearing that from independence as well. This isn't as red as people like to think it is. It's actually 30% independence. But what I'm hearing from the independence and the Republicans is they want to be known that they are the most important to their representative. It's in the title. Representative. That's the job. That's what I did for 30 years in the Army, serving my country. It was always about service over self. And that's what I'm going to deliver in November. And if you'd like to learn more about what I actually have planned, both on our anti-corruption agenda, and

our cutting cost agenda. You can visit my website at lila gray.com. General, good morning. I add my thanks for your service to the country as well. You started to answer my question, which is, what do you say to Democrats who at this point say, Florida's gone, it's a red state, it's Trump country, it's Ronda Santa's country, all of those things. Why do you say that this time, not just in your district, but maybe even across the state, why is this year different if it is? Well, I am talking to people. on the ground. I'm knocking on their doors. I'm in town halls. I'm in in people's homes meeting a lot of other, you know, their neighbors. And I tell you, I'm not, this is not something that I'm,

you know, making up. This is really about people that are coming up to me and saying, I'm a lifelong Republican. I'm even getting emails from them. I'm a lifelong Republican. I still will be Republican, but this is not what we want for our country. You have the leadership experience. You have the international and national security experience. You have the cyber security experience. We need people like you that understand how to go into a room, work with a wide variety of people, and bring people together to solve our problems. Because we can't go on with this quagmire of a war in Iran like we've done in past decades. We can't keep having these illegal tariff taxes that are driving up the cost, particularly for the small businesses right here in my community.

And so people understand that this is time for real leadership to step up. And it's exactly the reason that I'm here today. You know, General, one of the things that's so confusing to me, and I know confusing to you is you have a president and an opponent who supported starting a war that any foreign policy expert would have told them, including Mika's dad, 15 years ago, don't do it. Don't go into Iran. They'll close us straight.

it'll be economic chaos and the military objections will be next to impossible to reach without boots on the ground. So you get that side of it. But then on the other side, you're running against an opponent who along with the president

seemed to love Vladimir Putin and do everything they can to undercut the freedom fighters who are fighting their own war against Russian aggression, the sort of thing that Ronald Reagan spent his entire life, and Mika's dad spent his entire life doing, pushing back on Russian aggression. The Keev Post has called your opponent, I want to get it right here, the most

pro-Russia member of Congress. The Keev Post talked about her hosting Russian lawmakers, which even Republicans were shocked by, and echoing talking points of Vladimir Putin. So I don't understand why this, of course, according the Keith Post, and I've seen some of her comments, and they're pretty shocking because I know your area. I know your area has a lot of military men and women, a lot of retired military people, a lot of veterans. I'm just curious, are they not offended by a politician who goes around spouting pro- Putin talking points? They are concerned, and they'll say the same thing you did, that she is basically a Russian puppet. And, you know, in my 30 years of service, six of my years were spent,

you mentioned the Middle East. Six of my years of service were spent in some way, shape, or form with the Middle East. And two of those years was at U.S. Central Command right here in Tampa, one of which was under General Mattis. And so I can say with high confidence that we did not prosecute this war with Iran with a clear strategic objective, because if we had, we would have closed the Strait of Hormuz. We would have secured the Strait of Hormuz, first in foremost. But let's also be really clear that now this reckless choice of war, that Hegsef, Hegseff is leading. He is an unqualified frat boy. And in fact, I'm actually really concerned he's become unhinged with the latest news that I've heard about this publicized execution that's

going to happen by firing squad. And the fact that recently, I'm sure you're probably tracking this too, that Senator Chris Murphy was not allowed to go into Al UDD Air Base? That is unacceptable. In no way, shape, or form have we ever been denied access by our congressional members? That has me greatly concerned about our national security. Democratic nominee for Florida's 13th U.S. congressional district, retired Army Brigadier General Lila Gray. Thank you very much for being on the show this morning.

We appreciate it. All right, Claire McCaskill, thank you as well. And we'll note, Claire, has a new episode available of her exclusive series, Political Potluck, where she sits down with Eleanor Governor J.B. Pritzker over a plate of homemade fudge brownies to see that. And much more sign up. Okay, who made the brownies? I did. I want to know, Claire.

Me. Okay, thank God. I'm ready. I make everything. I make it all. I knew you did. All right. Well, we look forward to that.

want to sign up for the MS now membership via the QR code that we are going to put right there on your screen. You can get political potluck with Claire McCaskill. Coming up on Morning Joe, our next two guests say their new polling data is a canary in the coal mine for both 2026 nominees and potential 2028. Presidential contenders will dig into that data on young voters and money in politics. Straight ahead on Morning Joe. Look at that shot of New York City on this Friday morning where we have so much news to cover for you still ahead. A new poll out this morning reveals young American voters from all political backgrounds think there is too much money in politics. They also believe rich people and wealthy organizations have more influence on members of Congress than the individuals who vote for them.

Let's bring in MS Now contributor, author and pollster John Delavolpe. Also with us is Jeff Clements. He is the CEO of American Promise, a nonpartisan group focused on reducing the influence of money in politics which commissioned this poll. So let's, John, just first of all, talk about the overall focus here and why the collaboration and the work on this specific topic. What prompted it? Thanks, Mika. It's good to see you. What really surprised me about this project and this opportunity is the, and this opportunity for us to dig into this, is this just the scale of alienation that exists right now driven by this issue and how bipartisan it is.

83% of all young people in this survey say that money in politics is a big problem. Virtually every Democrat, 95% of Democrats, 83% of Republicans, 89% of independent say big money is a problem. And it was striking to me that only 4% of young people say that ordinary voters like them have influence, have the most influence over decisions in Washington. And we've been working and obviously talking with young voters for many, many years now. And this demand for change, this demand for reasonable limits by Congress in the states is bipartisan. two-thirds of all young people, eight percent Democrats, three-quarters of Republicans are ready for this change.

And Jeff, more on why this poll was commissioned, especially when I talk to young people, they seem, they feel helpless. And some of them as a result just tune out. They can't even deal with it. And yet, you're finding there's some serious opinions here about money and politics. Oh, there's some very serious opinions. And thanks for having me on. to be here and with John. You know, John's data really lay it out on both of your points. One,

they're very serious concerns about money in politics. And two, there's alienation and a sense of hopelessness. And that's because, as these voters show, everybody now pretty much knows that if you're a billionaire, if you run a global corporation, if maybe you run a big union, you might get some representation and something out of government. But if you're an ordinary voter, you don't have much chance. So I think that is what these voters are responding to. We've seen voters across the country responding to. And so we need to get serious about a solution. And that's the American Promise constitutional amendment solution that we've been working at 10 years now. And we are Republicans, Democrats, independents, just like these voters who want to change and know that in

the end, it's going to be up to us. We're going to have to amend the Constitution to end. and the catastrophe of this idea that was invented by the federal courts, that what we're seeing is just free speech, that it's actually a right to dominate our government and drown out all your fellow Americans if you have enough money. And so the constitutional amendment solution really fixes that now. John, part of what's really interesting about this new polling is that this is not just in the abstract.

Oh, there's too much money in politics. If you look specifically, you have young people saying, we're going to check candidates position on campaign finance. We're going to check candidates specifically about where they're getting their money. This has become a real campaign issue, a live one for young voters. Yeah, Willie, we can see that playing out now in many of the Senate races, as you know, as you talked about. I mean, Jeff likes to say that this is not just good policy, but it's good politics.

And as you can see there, that 70% say a candidate's position, is important to their vote. So addressing that. In the debates, there's a lot of talk about this, but it's usually just a tax rather than forward-thinking policy. It is a significant opportunity for Democrats and Republicans to engage with young people, not just in the final days of this campaign,

but I think as importantly in 2022 in the presidential, as people begin to jockey among the dozens of candidates who elect to run. Yeah, and Jeff, that's exactly where I wanted to go with you, obviously so much attention, the election now just three plus weeks away. And then we're going immediately turn the calendar and start thinking about 20, 28. And there is certainly, as you note, an appetite thinking there is too much money in politics. We'll see if there's a will to do anything about it. But what's your sense in terms of the, it will be one of the most wide-up elections

we've ever seen. We'll be the sort of degree of enthusiasm or engagement, perhaps, of these younger voters to go in on this race as we start looking beyond, you know, the Trump era, which for so many of them is all they've ever known. Well, I think there's a serious opportunity for engagement and for significant reform. I mean, the for our freedom amendment, as American Promise calls it, has actually very real. We're going to amend the Constitution to fix this system. And that is engaging because I think voters know, you know, small promises are not going to get it done. We actually got to go to the root of the problem. So 25 states have now joined in calling on Congress to pass the amendment out, get it back

to the states for ratification as the Constitution requires. And these are blue states, red states. We were in Washington last week with legislators from Idaho, Texas, Michigan, Utah, going up to Capitol Hill, telling their delegations that we need to get this constitutional amendment out and start fixing this problem. And I think voters who hear and see politicians, whether Republicans, Democrats, or independents, who are actually talking about this constitutional solution to the crisis of money and politics, that's going to be pretty engaging for the voters, for the country.

As John kindly quoted me, it is good policy and good politics. So I think that's where we'll see the engagement. The amendment has been introduced by Republicans and Democrats in Congress. So this is a very real amendment moment for the country. All right, John Delavopje and CEO of American Promise, Jeff Clements. Thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning and sharing that. We appreciate it. And coming up on Morning, Joe, a second former Republican governor endorses a Democrat running for U.S. Senate in Kansas.

We'll tell you who that is and what he said. Plus, the nominees for U.S. Senate in Maine squared off in a second debate. debate last night, we'll talk to Democrat Troy Jackson about his performance as he campaigns to unseat Republican incumbent Susan Collins. And as we go to break, Willie Geist, what do you have planned for Sunday today? Got a big one for you today, a new conversation, a really fascinating conversation with Academy Award winner Ben Affleck. He's got a new movie out for Netflix, a thriller called Animals. He co-wrote it, he produced it, he directed. He directed. directed it, and he stars in it with Kerry Washington and his wife. He plays a mayoral candidate in

L.A., whose child has been kidnapped, and what that says about their marriage and how they work with their children and everything else. It's a fascinating movie, but also we get into his long career, the ups and downs of his career, has really big thoughts on AI and where we're headed in that direction. Great conversation with Ben Affleck coming up this weekend over on NBC Sunday Today, and we'll be right back here on Morning Joe. Look at that beautiful shot of Peaks Island, Maine, and we're going to get to Maine and Troy Jackson in just a moment. But first, for the second time, this election cycle,

a former Republican governor of Kansas has endorsed the state's Democratic U.S. Senate nominee. Former Governor Mike Hayden endorsed Democrat Adam Hamilton last week and doubled down in a new video yesterday. I've always worked to put the people of Kansas first. That's been true since I first ran for office at the age of 28. I ran because the man represented my community wasn't fighting for the people back home. Today, our senator isn't fighting for the people back home either.

That's why I'm endorsing Adam Hamilton for the United States Senate. I supported Roger Marshall before, but he has a lot of the United States. before. But he has put party and politics ahead of the people of Kansas. It's time for a change. Former governor, Bill Graves, another Republican, is also endorsed Hamilton over incumbent Republican Senator Roger Marshall. From Kansas to Maine now, where the nominees for U.S. Senate squared off last night in a second debate. Republican incumbent Susan Collins and Democrat Troy Jackson, sparred over a number of issues, including the Iran War, the cost of living, and the future of the Supreme Court. Supreme Court term limits, yes or no?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is insane what's going on. Clear ethics reform, too. But yes. Senator Collins. Absolutely not. That is contrary to the whole notion of the Supreme Court. and I know that Troy wants to pack the court, and I think as Ruth Bayer...

And we are out of time. Thank you so much. I wouldn't have to be here. Have a great rest of your night. All right. And with Battleground, Maine and the race there, just 25 days away, Jackson is getting a boost from former President Barack Obama. Yesterday and morning, Joe, we showed you the endorsement from the former president

in which he highlights Jackson's working class background and, legislative record portraying him as an advocate for Mainers struggling with high costs. And Troy Jackson joins us now. It's good to have you. Thanks for coming on after the debate last night, which we're going to talk about. We're going to get to a range of issues. But I first wanted to talk about some news that has been breaking in the past 24 hours. We had another ice shooting. this one in the Bronx in New York, where an ice agent shot multiple times into a car, a car that had a five-year-old inside it as well. The person survived is undocumented, has a record, but again, another ice shooting into a moving vehicle. And I'm curious, especially since we had

the horrific killing in Bidford, your thoughts on ice and how they differ from your opponent, at this point, should it be abolished? Or what would you do? And what would you support to try and fix the problem that we're seeing across the country here? Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I mean, I believe at this point, ICE should be abolished. I mean, I don't think any type of reform is ever going to get the stain that is on them now. I would put money into Customs Border Patrol. I mean, that's what we used to. do a lot here in Maine. They went after sex trafficking, you know, drug running, things like that.

I mean, what we're seeing is a rogue agency that, you know, has been murdering people. I don't know the details of this one. But here in Maine, I mean, Mr. Guerrero was a 26-year-old father of a three-year-old daughter, and all he was doing was going to work. And, you know, as a working class person, I certainly understand one of that's like getting up Monday morning and having to go in and he was murdered because that's what he was doing. And, you know, last night, Senator Collins argued about how she got body cameras and all that, but the reality is, and she wouldn't admit to this, ICE doesn't have to turn over

those camera recordings if they don't believe it's in the best interest of the agency. Well, that just tells you everything you have to know about this agency. I mean, they're rogue and they're not going to let anyone see what they're doing. or turn over anything when they do something wrong, which is almost every day now. What do you hear from Maine voters about, I mean, is this one of the issues that they talk to you about? What are the issues that they talk to you about? And what do you believe the biggest misconception is that they might have about your opponent? Well, there's no doubt that Maine voters are talking about drug epidemic, you know, crime,

you know, people that they may think are coming into Maine. But more than anything, they're talking about how this government is broken and is not helping them with the cost of health insurance, the cost of heating oil, diesel, you know, these tariffs, how bad they are. You know, I think people want an effective law enforcement agency. But I do think that this has been something that has been used to target immigrants and make people think that people come to this state in this country are their problems. Immigrants are not what's causing our problems in this state or in this country.

It's the people on the top. The billionaires that are screwing us are the ones that are actually causing the problems for Mainers and people in the United States. Mr. Jackson, good morning. Thanks for being with us today. I'm curious if you can just specifically lay out how these tariffs are hitting Mainers, If you can pick a business or somebody that you've spoken to, because in some ways nationally, it becomes an abstract question.

But this is obviously you're so close to Canada there. It's a very real and immediate threat to people. Yeah, I mean, as a logger, I mean, I've worked with Canadians my entire life. I've worked right on the border. I mean, I could look into Canada. And, you know, these blanket terrorists are crushing the state. You know, we have three natural resources, eight, you know, occupations here, forestry, farming, and fishing. They all depend on Canada for their products going into Canada.

Almost every one of them depends on parts for, you know, boats, for tractors, for logging equipment coming out. You know, the tourism industry is down. The cross-border shopping, like you said, my district, my old State Senate district is right on the border, and cross-border shopping has completely gone away all because of, you know, these tariffs, and they are, they're crushing people. I mean, they can't afford that in fuel. They can't afford to keep operating. And I keep saying this, this is not going to go on much longer. I mean, regardless of what Susan Collins and Donald Trump do with tariffs in the Iron War, people are going to start losing their businesses. They're going to start losing their homes,

because many times their homes are tied up in these. And the whole industry is going to crash. all these industries are going to crash because they can't make up for the fuel and the tariffs. Troy, taken from with your last statement, if you were to be elected, and part of your argument has been Susan Collins closely tied to President Trump into a big money interest. If you were elected, you'd be part of the Democratic caucus in the Senate. What would you be urging Democrats in the Senate to do, whether they end up majority or minority in these last two years that Donald Trump is president? What would you be pushing them to do that is not being done now that impact directly the citizens in Maine that

you feel have not, have been neglected? Well, I mean, I think taking back Congress is number one goal. I mean, right now we have Republicans that have given up their role. I mean, last night, Senator Collins talked about that with terror, said that's the function of Congress, but, you know, we've given more and more authority to presidents. And I said, well, you, this president, you've given all authority to. I mean, I don't even know why you go to, go to D.C. now. You're letting him around the country, you know, without Congress's approval. But I think getting out of Iran, getting, you know, relations back with Canada, get these tariffs, you know, get off. And And then health care. I mean, I feel strongly that now is a time for Democratic priority to push forward on a Medicare for all system so that people have health care in this country. They can afford to go when they're sick. And I think that this is going to be one of the greatest economic things that's happened probably since the Industrial Revolution because employers won't have to spend all that money trying to keep up with health care for their employees. I mean, they can create new jobs. They expand, pay people more.

I mean, to me, this is the key to actually making this country so much stronger. And Troy, certainly, you know, your campaign seems to have a bit of momentum right now. Washington Post poll out just a few moments ago has you up 50 to 46 against Senator Collins. Others show a tight race, whether you're up a little or she's up a little. Clearly, very close. Bernie Sanders, going to be campaigning with you in the days ahead. Talk to us, if you will, about the challenges of balancing a Democratic Party right now. that has had a real, some, some strife, internal strife this year about this, moderate lane versus the progressives like Bernie Sanders.

How do you try to coalesce those two camps behind your campaign? Well, I mean, I don't know about, you know, coalescent. I don't know about progressive or moderate. What I know is that in this state, and I believe in this country, people want a government that works for them, and they don't feel like that's happening. And it's been going like that a long time. I mean, the reality that we can't have health care, We can't have prescription drug coverage.

I mean, look, I live around the Canadian border. I mean, I know it's possible. I can see it every day when I look across the St. John River. And that, I think, is why so many people in this country are upset. They're seeing their rates. They're seeing them lose health care. They're seeing billionaires get income tax cuts. Why our health care system crashes.

I mean, that to me is what the coalition has got to be, is that we've got to make sure that we can provide health care and prescription drug cover, child care. And we can do these things if we quit giving tax cuts, if we quit having these forever wars, if we could putting $70 billion into ice for a rogue agency. I mean, it's just about prioritizing where we spend our money. You know, and all across the state, people are upset.

They want change. And look, I keep saying this, and I'm okay saying that this is not about Troy Jackson. It's not even about, you know, Susan Collins. It's about people feeling like the government's broken and they want to change. And Senator Collins has been keeping, you know, these things happening, letting Donald Trump go, voting with him 96% of the time. And people are tired of this. They want somebody that's actually going to fight for them for a change. So, Troy, I just wanted to ask you a personal question, actually, which is, I mean, more about why you're doing this.

And if you wanted to do this, obviously, you jumped. in after Graham Platner stepped out. It was a pretty tough situation. A lot of Mainers felt like people from the outside were telling them how to run their elections. And Mainers don't like to be told what to do. You're very Maine in so many ways. And I'm just curious, did you want to do this? And why are you finding yourself in a place where you may actually beat the seemingly unbeatable Susan Collins? Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't think it's any secret.

You know, I obviously ran for governor. There was a lot of options on the table when I made that decision, but I saw an easier path to make real change in the state and the governor's race. But what I'll tell you is that, you know, over the last year, year and a half, what I've been seeing in Maine is incredible. You know, for 30 years, I've been waiting for everyday working class people to, you know, stand up and fight for a bit of best. better government. And I understand how hard that is. I mean, you know, when I was 29 years old,

I was scared to death to, you know, get out of the line because I was afraid that it would, you know, hurt me economically or, you know, I'd be blacklisted or whatever. And, and that does happen. And so now after waiting and waiting, people are, they're really frustrated and that's turned into an energy across the state like I've never seen before. And so I'd have been happy just being a part of trying to make that change, put somebody else in position. Obviously, what happened with Graham was, well, I mean, to me, it was about making sure that we continue with all that energy and all that excitement to change government. That's why I jumped in.

And because I didn't want to see that momentum go away and looked like last night before the debate, you know, my son and his partner brought. you know, my, my first grandchild in, and, you know, she's only like two weeks old. I mean, holding her, I mean, it really capsulized everything I've been doing for last 30, 35 years about why this is important. I mean, everyday people need someone in their corner, and I'm going to do that. I'm going to fight for everyday people, not just for my granddaughter, but for all those granddaughters out there that know that this world is, you know, too hard on them. and it's a big deal for them. Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate in Maine.

Troy Jackson, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. We really appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. Take care. You can go to jackson from Maine.com to check us out. We'll do. All right.

Thank you. And now to Reverend Al. Reverendal, what do you have planned for Politics Nation this weekend? Well, we're certainly going to be dealing a lot with what is going on in key races in the midterm elections, particularly in Texas and in Georgia. We're also going to be dealing with the follow-up to the march on Washington, dealing with some of the policies that are impacting black Americans and people of color. There's been a HUD decision to go after Wells Fargo Bank about they are trying to stop them from the program

where they've helped black homeowners who are disproportionate in terms of home ownership in the country. And we're going to have Mayor Rosal Rock on talking about a big march following up the Washington march that will happen in Trenton and why they're calling on an agenda to help in New Jersey that will be spread nationwide. So we're going to have a very active two days over the weekend on politics nation. All right, Reverend L Sharpton, thank you so much. We're going to sneak in a quick break. Up next, we'll dig into the details of another incident where an ICE agent opened fire on a moving car. Only this time, there was a five-year-old in the back seat. Morning Joe, we'll be right back.