Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/12/22

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Democrats narrowly lead on the generic ballot

I've been telling this little story about this bull out in the field with six cows and three of them are pregnant. So you know you got something going on. Yeah, Tom Conley. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, Tom Conn is wondering, okay, what they don't tell is the rest of this clip, which we've got to play in full. That happened yesterday? That wasn't like years ago. This was their cleanup. And so his story was a bull wanted to have sex with three cows. He got the three cows pregnant. And then

he saw three other cows over the fence and wanted to get those cows pregnant so much that he went over barbed wire. Are you okay? To get to the other cows. Is this really what happened or making this up? What, sweetheart? Yeah. I didn't tell the story about a bull wanting to get six cows. There's no way Herschel would tell that story at this moment. These people come to Georgia to help him get out of a scandal where he got a lot of people pregnant, lied about it and didn't didn't want to. So he literally said that yesterday, Katty K, on the campaign trail in Georgia and there was Tom Cotton

and I guess Rick Scott was there and they just said, well, I want to tell a little story and started laughing. And to be really honest with you, the story didn't make any sense anyway. So all he did was basically ramble on about a bull who wanted to get six cows pregnant.

Yeah, about pregnancy. And Tom Cotton all the while is standing there saying, you can tell the look on his face. Could I be anywhere else right now? But he stays. But he stays, Tom Cotton. And he doesn't say this is not OK. What it gets to really is, Willie, it gets to the fact that, that again this guy is so ill-equipped to be running for anything uh as his is at this point is he making fun of everybody is

do you think we're gonna look back he's winging it the problem with herschel walker was during his campaign he was too ironic no three-dimensional test to be ironic it's just he's not trying to be ironic willie it was it was bizarre help willie he's he's in trouble this would be like if uh federman decided to tell a joke about a person who had a health condition that stopped him from being effective firemen or something like that. It is a he ran right to the scandal and then told a story that made absolutely no sense. Yeah. I wonder if anyone thought that through. He said, I've been telling this story. It's like something he's already said a few times. So I guess he's well aware of the moral of the story. He said, quote, of those pregnant cows, you know he's got something going on, talking about the bull, because he has a lot of women pregnant around him.

I think that was not ironic. I think that was just Herschel being Herschel. When he said that, Willie, he laughed. He goes, you know, he's got a lot going on. And he started laughing. And some of these evangelicals in the crowd, I guess, they're conditioned, they're trained, they start laughing, too. And I'm like, okay, wait.

But they're evangelicals. They're laughing. What? But I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. It's just I thought it was fascinating. You're right. They got laughs and cheers in the crowd.

So we gave that the sort of curb your enthusiasm, Larry David treatment. Here's in its fullness. Yeah. Herschel Walker said yesterday and keep in mind, as you said, over his right shoulder, Republican Senator Tom Cotton, over his left shoulder, National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair Rick Scott, who have parachuted in to help to save Herschel Walker and try to win that seat. As they've been saying, something is better somewhere else. And I'm here to tell you it's not. So I've been telling this little story about this bull out in the field with six cows and

three of them are pregnant. So you know you got something going on. But all he cared about is kept his nose against the fence, looking at three other cows that didn't belong to him. Now, all he had to do is eat grass. But no, no, no. He thought something was better somewhere else. So he decided, I want to get over there. So one day he measured that fence up. And he said, I think I can jump this. So that day came where he got back. And he said, I think I can jump this. So that day came where he got back. And he got back, and as he took off running, he dove over that fence, and his belly got cut up onto the bottom.

But as he made it over on the other side, he shook it off and got so excited about it. And he ran to the top of that hill, but when he got up there, he realized they were bulls, too. Really leaning into it and some forced smiles there from Senator Scott. Yeah. And Cotton, who are saying in those thought bubbles, we came here to change the subject. And you're bringing it up again, Herschel. My God. And so then is this confession? Did he have a Lola moment here when he goes over and finds the three balls but again look on cod's face i am not amused do you really clap for that do you know what they call it georgia values that's what that's what rick scott calls it georgia georgia values i don't maybe maybe the story was so rambling that actually most of the crowd didn't really understand what he was saying.

I kind of understood it. It seemed like the ball. It was an off color joke that you'd tell at a club or in a bar, you know, and the other women are coming to you saying that it's crazy. It's completely crazy. I love it. So let me ask you, who tells that joke anywhere? When people when people were telling me a couple of weeks ago, this is going to be a great year for Democrats. I said, really? Then why is Herschel Walker still in a tie with with the preacher? Here we go. Ebenezer Baptist Church. This is again, this is such negative partisanship, which defines our time right now, defines our politics right now. It's not about whether and more and more people are.

They'll tell you even openly, oh, I don't like Donald Trump. I don't. But I don't want Nancy Pelosi and AOC and so and so to run the country here. They're like, OK, well, I OK, I have problems with this guy who's had four kids out of wedlock and he denies the kids. He denies the last wife that he had to get an abortion, that he pressured to repeatedly have an abortion, holding a gun to someone's head, got her pregnant again and then tried to pressure her to have another abortion. And when she refused, the relationship broke up and then he lied about her until he got busted. I mean, a lot going on, a lot going on. And yet it's still a draw. The race is still a draw. Yeah. Well, we have to remember that Georgia is a very close state that President Biden barely won it in 2020. Right. But how does anybody look at this guy

and think that he's qualified to be a United States? How does anybody? I could never. I'll say what I said about Donald Trump in 2015 when he started talking about Muslim registry. I could never vote for this guy. Who in Georgia could vote for this guy? He's so ill-equipped. I mean, I can't imagine walking into the voting booth, no matter what your party affiliation is on election day and saying, I'm going to cast a vote for Herschel Walker, the guy who just made that bizarre, crass, crass statement, whatever you want to call it yesterday. He's just continuing to dig himself in a hole. He's also continuing to drive national headlines every single day when he comes out here and says this, which doesn't only reflect

poorly on him, but reflects poorly on the entire Republican ticket. Yeah. And so now let me let me make everybody angry that's watching this morning. Good morning at six. Hi, we're here. Adrian Elrod, Jonathan Lemire, David Ignatius, David Ignatius, lovely evening last night was stellar last night. We'll tell you all about it. Yeah Ignatius, lovely evening last night was stellar last night. We'll tell you all about it. Yeah. But, you know, so we're talking about that in Georgia. I will tell you in Pennsylvania, things are getting more and more dire, I would say, for the Democratic candidate there who was up by about 80 points. He did an interview yesterday and he had to have closed captioning during the interview because he can't really process what he's hearing, Jonathan O'Meara.

It's going to be interesting to see how that debate goes. And you have Democrats now who have to be thinking, yikes, this is a tough situation for us to be in with a month to go. Yeah, we're going to be playing more of that interview later in the show. But John Fetterman, of course, suffered a stroke earlier this year on the campaign trail. He recovers, as doctor says, his prognosis is good, but he does still have trouble with understanding words that he hears. And therefore, it's easier for him to process them if he reads them, hence using closed

captioning while doing even a face-to-face interview. And then we're seeing there's the setup there. Democrats are growing nervous about Pennsylvania. There's no way around it. Fetterman seen as perceived as a very strong candidate. But there are questions that persist right now about his health. Dr. Oz, we know he is deeply flawed, but he has closed the gap, which looked like a Fetterman walk a couple of months ago has gotten really tight. The Democrats are looking around and they see Pennsylvania as their best chance for a pickup. And they're nervous that they could lose a seat. And if they can't pick up Pennsylvania and they lose even one, there goes the majority.

There goes that 50-50 tie. And they're anxious about Nevada. And they're also anxious about Georgia. And we should just note, back to Herschel Walker for just a second, Joe, there is a new poll from the University of Georgia that came last night. Now, it only includes a few days worth of this latest Walker scandal. So we haven't had a full sampling just yet, but it has a slight impact on that. And even then, it has the race being only three points. Warnock only up three on Walker. So that is going to remain very close going forward, it would appear. We're going to talk to Dasha Burns,

who conducted that interview with John Fetterman coming up. And by the way, the latest morning consult survey finds that among likely voters, Democrats narrowly lead on the generic congressional ballot, 48 to 45 percent. The three point spread for the Democrats is down slightly from a five point spread last week. Another seven percent remain undecided. Willie, these numbers are all over the place. You have you have some of these generic ballot tests where Democrats are up by three, four or five, where they're down by three, four or five. Bottom line, though, is it is tight. And what we always thought when I was a Republican, when we were running, if if we're even on the generic ballot, that's usually really good

news for Republicans. Democrats up three right now. We'll see what happens. But again, we say it every two years. This year, it's more, I think, appropriate than ever. It's who gets out to vote. Are you going to have women who are going to be more motivated? Are you going to have young voters who are more motivated? Are you going to have fathers of daughters are more motivated? Are you going to have

fathers of daughters which showed up in some polls that are going to be more motivated after a fundamental right for women that they had had for 50 years under the Constitution was taken away from them? I think the election actually, at least for the Senate, swings on that. I think in the House, it may just be the difference between Republicans winning by nine seats and 25, 26, 27 seats. But right now, that's the big question. This race is tight. Yeah. Will the abortion issue be that galvanizing force, not just for Democrats, for independents in this race, as we've seen it be in some of the primary elections? Will it be that way into November?

Will it have those kind of legs? Will the Dobbs decision from the Supreme Court have legs? That's a question for Democrats. But that generic poll tells us what we know, that it's going to be very, very close in places like Pennsylvania, in places like Arizona, in places like Georgia. And that's why we're seeing, even though we have some of these terrible candidates, objectively terrible, even Republicans tell you that privately. Mitch McConnell has said it publicly. Some of the candidate quality, as he said, is not where he thinks it should be. He's still supporting the candidates. Despite all that, it is airtight in so many of these races. And Adrian Elrod, I would ask you as the Democratic strategist on set how Democrats

are feeling right now. They felt like they maybe had a little bit of a boost from the Dobbs decision. We saw it turn up in a bunch of places as being helpful. We've heard from primaries like Alyssa Slotkin's in Michigan, where she said objectively she has seen her numbers go up in a tight race there in Michigan. Will it be that galvanizing force all the way through to November? Yeah, Willie, I think when the Supreme Court came forward and made the Dobbs decision, the big motivation from Democrats was, can we keep this momentum up? You know, obviously we saw what happened in the New York 19 special election. We saw what happened in Kansas. So the big question for us is, is that momentum going to

be sustainable through November 8th of this year? And I think at this point, the answer is yes. We are seeing this still be a motivating issue for voters. Of course, inflation, the economy still tends to be the overall issue. But when you look at what's driving those key suburban voters, Willie, who will ultimately decide what happens in this election, especially in some of these close races, Dobbs in a women's reproductive rights is still the main issue that voters care about. And I think when people, again, go into the ballot box and cast that vote on November 8th, this is going to be something that is top of mind. Yeah, for sure. Katie, one other group that I'm very curious about, John DeLavolpe says younger voters have

been energized. They've been engaged by Roe v being overturned by student loans, being forgiven by this marijuana thing that Joe Biden did. All things, all these things that, you know, he Del Volpe says he sees in polling shows that the younger voters may be more motivated. I've said for years that if you're a politician waiting for younger voters to carry you over the finish line, you are going to be standing at the altar alone for a very long time waiting. I do wonder, though, those are three pretty massive things. Student loans, regardless of how you feel about it, and Dobbs and the middle of the stuff. But midterms, do they even know about it?

I mean, they are the white whale of American politics, right? Every election cycle seems to turn on whether young voters are going to turn out. They did turn out for Barack Obama in 2008. But since then, they haven't turned out in big numbers. The last election was with a pretty good showing 2020 for younger voters. Interestingly, since 2020, younger voters have actually left Joe Biden's camp more almost than any other group. They've been more disappointed in this presidency than almost any other group of Americans. But the combination of of Dobbs, marijuana, school debt, but actually also high gas prices are going to factor into

young voters. A lot of young voters drive to and from colleges or drive to and from jobs. Right. So they're going to feel the impact of gas prices as well. They're not immune from that. And it's going to be interesting to see whether, I mean, as Mika suggests, do they actually turn out for midterm elections at all? Yeah, we're going to revisit politics, obviously, throughout the four hours of morning, Joe. We want to get to the other top headlines this morning. In Ukraine, crews are still assessing the damage and working to restore power from widespread Russian missile attacks.

Of course, they started two nights ago. Russia carried out at least 28 more missile strikes yesterday compared to 84 on Monday. According to Ukraine's military, roughly half of the missiles yesterday were neutralized by air defenses. Similar to Monday strikes, the missiles yesterday struck energy infrastructure and civilian areas. In Zaporizhia, emergency workers were seen trying to extinguish fires after missiles destroyed several residential buildings. And in Lviv, the mayor said yesterday a third of the city was without power due to a rocket strike. In an interview with CNN yesterday, President Biden was asked about the likelihood that Russian President Putin would use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine.

I don't think he will, but I think it's irresponsible for him to talk about it. The idea that a world leader, one of the largest nuclear powers in the world, says he may use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, the whole point I was making was it could lead to just a horrible outcome. And not because anybody intends to turn it into a world war ending, but just once you use a nuclear weapon, the mistakes that can be made, the miscalculations, who knows what would happen. I think he is a rational actor who's miscalculated significantly. I think he thought he's going to be welcome with open arms, that this has been the home of Mother Russia in Kiev, and he was going to be welcomed. And I think he just totally miscalculated.

Meanwhile, Russia says it has arrested eight people in connection with the weekend attack on that bridge to Crimea. The country's security services said this morning five of those held are Russians, while the others are Ukrainian and Armenian. Let's bring in NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons live from Moscow. Keir, what more do we know about these arrests today? Well, it's an announcement by the FSB here in Russia, which, of course, is the successor to the KGB, wrapping up or at least extending their investigation very, very quickly, surprisingly quickly, some might say, announcing just before a major speech here by President Putin in Moscow that they have traced to the route of a truck that they say was responsible for the explosion, saying the explosives were wrapped in plastic,

saying that the main intelligence directorate of Ukraine's defense ministry was behind it, that the truck went by a circular route around the Black Sea, then into Russia from Odessa in Ukraine and then across that bridge. And then that explosion, I have to say, Ukrainian, a Ukrainian official on Ukrainian television this morning describing that explanation as nonsense. Again, the FSB making this announcement just before a major speech by President Putin here in central Moscow, that intelligence agency, this security agency here in Russia, would obviously have been very keen to get some conclusions quickly. They say that they have arrested five Russians, eight people in total,

the others being Ukrainian and Armenian, Willie. And, of course, Putin now using the attack on that bridge as justification for two consecutive days of attacks on civilian targets inside Ukraine. Keir, we just heard from President Biden last night saying that he believes Vladimir Putin miscalculated with his war in Ukraine. Has Putin responded to that? No, not directly. Again, we are waiting for President Putin to make a speech. But we have heard from the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, this morning.

And he says it's not a response to President Biden, but he says the goals of the special operation remain the same and are even more relevant now. So, you know, if you like, you want to put it this way, Russia just doubling down. He also know, if you like, you want to put it this way, Russia just doubling down. He also confirms, if you like, President Biden saying there were no negotiations. Dmitry Peskov saying there are currently no initiatives from either the Russian or the American side to organize contacts at the highest level. And then he does also have to say,

have something to say, Dmitry Peskov, about those nuclear threats, including those thinly veiled threats from President Putin himself. Dmitry Peskov this morning saying, we express our regret daily that Western leaders practice nuclear rhetoric. That's a pernicious practice. We're not participating and will not participate. So the Russians say, well, we're not threatening nuclear in any nuclear kind of way. It's you in the West that are making these kind of threats and amping up the rhetoric. NBC's Keir Simmons reporting from Moscow. Keir, thanks so much. And Joe and Meek, of course,

it was President Putin himself who raised the specter of using nuclear weapons, even if they're limited in the war in Ukraine, as sort of a threat to the West to step back. Yeah, you know, people that I know that have worked in the CIA in the past talked about how homeland was so realistic. And I just one scene keeps coming back to me when I either I talk to Russians in government or we hear something like that where Saul just was negotiating with a Russian at one point, and he just started kind of bitterly laughing and said, you SOBs, you just lie all the time. I'm so sick of your lies. And art doesn't imitate life.

Art actually ripped from the headlines of real life. And that's just what they do. It's extraordinary. And of course, blaming the United States for Vladimir Putin engaging in nuclear nuclear blackmail. Crazy. I wanted to ask you something that you said last night in the National Cathedral. We had a wonderful event. We want to thank the dean of the National Cathedral, Dean Randy Hollerith, as well as John Meacham for organizing this. Heather Conley with the German Marshall Fund was there. Your 102 year old father. Oh, my God.

I need to know the exercise regimen because we were talking about the Marshall plan. And when George Marshall announced it at Harvard in 1945, your father, of course, was there. He was in the audience. And when they handed him the microphone, he said, I don't need a microphone. And he did not. And his voice boomed throughout the National Cathedral. He was incredible. Extraordinary.

He's quite a 102-year-old. He is. He is powerful. So let's talk about your column yesterday. And it's a bit disconcerting because you would hope the Ukrainians would look at this as a Putin problem and not a Russian problem. You would hope that Dan Dresner would be right, that this war is about Vladimir Putin and not about an existential threat to Russia. That's not exactly what you found. Joe, I was in Ukraine over the weekend.

I left a day before the terrible bombing that we've seen the last two days begin. But I was struck that in almost every conversation with Ukrainians, when I would ask this question, what's this fight about? Is it against Putin, which implies that you'd find a way to end it if Putin stepped back? Or is it about something more fundamental? Is it about Russia, Russia's fundamental contradictions with the Ukraine that's becoming Western? Everybody would answer that it's with Russia, that Russia needs to be treated the way Germany was after World War II. It needs a period in which root and branch, the elements of the imperial attitude that has supported Putin in this war are taken apart. And it's a it's a much more maximal consequences of that, because, of course, Germany in 1945 in the spring of 1945 didn't have nuclear weapons that could destroy the earth a hundred times.

So, Joe, what I said last night at the cathedral was that I see two fundamental things in contradiction. After World War One, we know that a harsh, punitive piece on Germany helped lead to World War Two. So that tells us to be careful with Russia. But we also know that World War II ended with the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan, and that on that total defeat was built we're just going to postpone the next war. And that worries me because we're in a situation I think is going to be much harder. Biden wants a negotiated settlement. He keeps saying over and over again. I didn't hear that in Kiev from anybody.

Great. And, you know, Katty, we saw yesterday, a couple of days ago, we played on the show, the prime minister, I believe, of Finland. And they said, what's the off ramp here? Off ramp here. And she looked at the camera, shocked. And they said, well, the off ramp is every Russian troop leaving Ukraine. And that's not just her.

If you talk to the leaders in Estonia, in Latvia, they look at us like we're fools. And they say, we've been warning you about this for a decade, and you haven't listened to us. You listen to us now. Yeah, and that's what you hear from Central European diplomats very strongly at the moment is what they're telling NATO and it's what they're telling the G7 as well. And the counter question to that that I hear from more Western European diplomats and leaders is we don't know what it looks like for a country that has a nuclear weapon to lose. We've never had that before. We've never had a situation in which a country is humiliated, has lost, says it's lost. Continues to humiliate itself.

And I guess that's that's where why we are in this process of how far do we push Putin? How far we hope that Putin ends up like Yeltsin and some people around him say, OK, we're going to move you out with your pen to your dacha. You go there and then something replaces that. Right. But what replaces that is not clear. I have said and it may not be popular, but I'm just for about 10 years, I'm just as fearful about what replaces Putin as Putin himself. in 1995, it seemed once a year we would have armed services committee meetings where we were horrified by what intelligence community would come in, say, we believe right now. This was, of course, during just after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was political anarchy, social anarchy, economic anarchy in the Soviet Union. We had people trying to figure out whether their

nuclear weapons were secure. And we would have one hearing after another where it's like we believe there may be seven nuclear suitcase bombs. They may be somewhere in middle America, in a locker, in a bus station. And when such, you know, that that seemed to be a regular occurrence on the Armed Services Committee back, I would say, before Vladimir Putin. Wrestled all of these these elements together and brought in a measure of order. He did. Russians are very grateful. So what happens next? So what happens after he leaves is the concern. So your concern about what happens after Putin and the possibility that it could be even worse is shared by the top intelligence analysts in the U.S. who look at the situation and are concerned. You could have fragmentation. You could have warlordism.

You could have the tight control that allows us to make a deal, let's say, over Ukraine or over arms control become impossible in such a fragmented situation. So it's a moment I often quote General Milley, who's the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who says, quoting a Chinese leader, we are crossing the river, stepping from stone to stone, meaning it's that unstable. I see. Each step, we're not just sure what's there. And I think it's a time when I'm glad that President Biden and people around him

are trying to think very carefully that they're being, thankfully, forthright in their assistance to Ukraine. They give them more and more of what they need. But at the same time, they're really trying to think hard. How do we avoid a fundamental confrontation between the U.S. and Russia, which would be, let's face it, World War III? And you also, you're talking about how the Ukrainians want Russia to be broken up into pieces. A nightmare. We want separatists.

Things like that we need to say to Ukraine. I'm sorry, you may want that, but we don't think that's in the interest of the United States. Do we want Chechnyan warlords being in charge of nuclear weapons? Do we want radicals in other parts? It is a nightmare. And that's why I asked last night, does there come a point where the Ukrainians succeed the way we want them to succeed, where suddenly their interests and our interests diverge. Because we do not want Russia separated and broken into little bits. We do not want this to be an existential crisis for Russia. Why?

Because of the nuclear weapon. Because it's too dangerous. And again, we saw how dangerous it was when you had a drunk, a corrupt drunk running Russia. I'm not saying Vladimir Putin is is is an angel. I'm not denying he's a war criminal. I will tell you, though, there were a lot of people, like you said, caddy in the intel community after he took control. They thought, well, at least we don't have to worry about al Qaeda buying a nuclear weapon from a Russian separatist group. Yeah. And you add not just the nuclear element. There are so

many weapons pouring into Ukraine at the moment from all around that the Americans are trying to source. Right. And once they cross the Ukrainian border, we don't know where they're going. We have no eyes on them once they cross the border into Ukraine. For the moment, they seem to be secure in the hands of the Ukrainians. But if you get a really, you could see a situation where those weapons end up in the hands of the wrong people, perhaps it's Russians who are coming in from the east. I mean, it's an incredibly volatile situation at the moment. Which is why I do think, we were talking about Harry Truman last night and how he managed 1947 to 52, how he managed the post-war world and all the challenges that were going down for Western Europe, Central Europe, that was broken and shattered.

Joe Biden thus far has done an extraordinary job. He really has. And every day, every day he's walking through, as you said, he's stepping from stone to stone. I would say he's walking through a diplomatic minefield and he's done extraordinarily well. Well, we're going to revisit this and still ahead on Morning Joe, we're going to talk more about the administration's decision to expedite air defense systems to Ukraine when we're joined by John Kirby of the National Security Council. Plus, as we mentioned, an NBC News exclusive with Pennsylvania Democratic Senate nominee John Fetterman. What he's saying about coping with the after effects of the stroke he suffered earlier this year. Also ahead, new reporting on Secret Service communications relating to the January 6th Capitol attack that have been turned over to congressional investigators.

And we'll speak with a former officer who defended the Capitol during last year's insurrection. Michael Fanone is out with a new warning about the growing threat to our democracy. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. You've got a platform to call out the BS. The president's statements that day were BS. Saying, you know, you were on the phone with him. While you were on the phone with him, I was getting the s**t kicked out of me. Almost losing my life. The way that he, you know, saying this is what happens

when you steal an election. Go home. I love you. What the f*** is that? That came from the president of the United States. That is the voice of former D.C. Metro police officer Michael Fanone calling out House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Republicans in newly released audio from a 2020 meeting with McCarthy. Fanone, along with other officers and family, were meeting with the congressman to advocate for a bipartisan commission to investigate the attack on the Capitol. Republicans ultimately would block that prospect. Fanone secretly recorded the conversation, which he reveals now in his new

book titled Hold the Line, the Insurrection and One Cop's Battle for America's Soul. And Officer Fanone joins us now in studio. Congratulations on the book. It's great to see you. We were just saying we have to say up front again, thank you for what you and your fellow officers did that day for standing in the breach, for holding the line on a truly ugly day for America. Why did you feel like you needed to record that conversation with Kevin McCarthy? I mean, because I don't trust him. I didn't trust him to recount the conversation accurately. And, you know, I wanted to memorialize it so that in the case that, you know, he said something that was different either from what he was saying publicly or he said something in the meeting that

was, you know, different from what he had told other people, that I would have, you know, some type of evidence to prove that. And Kevin McCarthy, obviously, we saw an excerpt from a new book this week. He knew exactly what happened that day, yelling on the phone to Donald Trump himself, saying they're trying to kill me, yelling to the president. What do you think when you hear publicly things that are so different from what you know these guys know happened that day? Ron Johnson, the senator from Wisconsin last week, was speaking to a group in Milwaukee. He kept putting armed insurrection in air quotes, saying they didn't have guns. It wasn't an armed insurrection.

They stayed inside the rope lines. You were there. You can recount what happened to you if you want to. What do you think when you hear that from these people? Well, I mean, in the case of Senator Ron Johnson, I mean, we were talking about this earlier. You know, he's adhering to the play of, if I continue to repeat the same lies over and over again, knowing full well that most of my constituents only source their news from Fox News, which is not saying anything about the realities of January 6th, then I can get away with those

lies. It's been debunked many, many times over. There were guns present on January 6th. There were many firearms present on January 6th. There were not a lot of firearms arrests made because the officers were too busy fighting for their lives. But we have proof positive that there were individuals there that day that were armed. And we did make arrests with regards to firearms and people illegally carrying them within the city limits.

So, Officer Fanone, let me first echo Willie's comments about thanking you for your service that day. Two things. First, just give us an update on your health, your recovery now, because I know you suffered significant injuries that day. But also, walk us through, in those hours, the danger you and your fellow officers faced, but also the restraint that you showed as that mob approached? I mean, as far as my physical health, I mean, I had a lot of great doctors that I worked with for over a year. With regard to the trauma of the day, you know, psychologically, I've come to terms with what I experienced that day. And I'm very proud of the way that I performed and the way that many of the other officers that responded to the Capitol that

day performed. I'm sorry, what was the other question? Sure. Just the restraint that you showed. I mean, obviously in great danger, but as terrible as that moment was, it could have spiraled that much more out of control. Yeah, I mean, again, I think it speaks to the individual officers that responded to the Capitol that day. You know, the protocol that dictates how police officers use force is very specific, especially when we're talking about deadly force. And while, you know, in my case, being out in the crowd, being assaulted, there were individuals that I identified in which I believe I was justified to use deadly force because I felt my life was in danger. That being said, in a crowd scenario, had I used my firearm, you know, there's a good chance that I would have struck other people that may have been breaking the law, but may have not risen to the level of deadly force being appropriate. And so I chose, you know, to use another tactic, as did many, many other officers. You know, this, we don't have the

ability to just shoot openly into, you know, into a crowd because we feel like we're under attack. I want to point out, too, for people like Ron Johnson who equivocate and say, well, it wasn't armed. It wasn't technically an insurrection. Well, somehow you got burns, a heart attack, traumatic brain injury, electric shock to your neck, beaten with a flagpole, dragged by a mob down the Capitol, stabbed, beaten with pipes, stunned with a taser, and threatened with your own gun. All of those things did happen. Were you wondering, Officer Fanone, in the moment, where's the cavalry? Where's the backup? There's been so much talk about why the National Guard

wasn't deployed quicker, and where was everybody? And we've learned a lot in these January 6 hearings about what President Trump, former President Trump, did not do. Were you looking over your shoulder saying, where is everybody? Where's the backup? I mean, not in the moment. And I do remember a brief period of time when I originally got into the tunnel. There was, you know, one of the officers, you know, kind of looked at me as though, you know, like, where's everybody else? And this is when my partner, Jimmy Albright and I arrived. And I was like, well, it's just the two of us. That's it. But that being said, in hindsight, looking back and hearing through the select committee's investigation that there were

changes in protocol made to calling out the National Guard in the weeks and months just prior to January 6th. I mean, that's what we in the business call a clue. And then the fact that, you know, Donald Trump sat for 187 minutes and didn't do shit while hundreds of police officers were fighting for their lives on the Capitol steps. And we now know that he was watching intently throughout that entire period. And then, you know, combined with the statement that he eventually put out, which to me was absolutely infuriating. I mean, everyone knows that that was a disingenuous statement at best. You know, we love you. Go home. This is what happens when you steal an election. And it's bullshit. And as you write in your book, John, he had to have his arm twisted even to make

that statement publicly. Yeah. He multiple times. It was it was senior aides. His own daughter tried to say, you know, Mr. President, you need to say something here. And even when he went out to the Rose Garden, it took three or four takes before he was able to even offer a mild condemnation of what was happening here. And you should go. So, I mean, learning this now, I'm sure you've been following the January 6th hearings. We've got another one tomorrow. Do you feel like they have done a good job really telling the American people what went into that day and what happened that day? Yeah. I mean, again, I wish that there had been a bipartisan commission. I think that would have been the appropriate mechanism to investigate this. However,

Kevin McCarthy and Republicans shot that down. So the Select Committee, I think, has done an outstanding job investigating the root causes of January 6th and placing them before the American people in a format that was palatable, that people could understand. And to me, it was very clear at the end that Donald Trump engaged in defrauding the American people, lying to them about the election, 2020 election, and having not been a free and fair election. And I think he needs to be held accountable. Let's listen to one more piece of the audio from that meeting with Republican lawmakers. This is the mother of Officer Brian Sicknick, who died later, asking Congressman McCarthy about what former President Trump was doing while her son was being that at that point.

Kevin McCarthy running interference there. Former President Trump to the mother of an officer who died later. Have any of these Republicans privately reached out to you? Has anyone apologized to you, checked in on you? Do you get any of that from any members of Congress? No. With the exception of a few that I've made friends with, Adam Kinzinger, Eric Swalwell. No. I mean, I. And that was another part of this experience, and specifically the meeting that I had with Kevin McCarthy is seeing the indifference on behalf of Republican members of Congress, but in many cases, Democrat members of Congress, too, in which they saw, you know, January 6th as either a distraction from their legislative agenda, not politically advantageous. And in this case, you know, you have the mother of a fallen police officer, a police officer that died as a result of the injuries that he sustained on January 6th fighting in defense of the Capitol and in defense of democracy.

And, you know, Kevin McCarthy just could not muster up any empathy or compassion for this woman whatsoever. Back the blue when it's convenient in the case of them, except when cops are being beaten on the steps of the Capitol. It's so important to tell your story. It's so important to tell the story of what happened that day because there are so many people who want to change the story. Metro DC officer Michael Fanone, the book is titled Hold the Line, the Insurrection, One Cop's Battle for America's Soul.

Officer Fanone, thank you again for being here. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Coming up here, a look at the stories making headlines in this morning's newspapers, plus an update on the classified documents recovered from Mar-a-Lago. The Justice Department is picking apart more claims from Trump's legal team.

And President Biden has not officially said he's running for reelection, but he sounded confident about his chances in 2024. We'll play for you his new comments next on Morning Joe. And to try to close it on a Tuesday, Alvarez launches deep right field. And that's what is gone. And the Astros walk them off in game one! Jordan Alvarez! Are you kidding me? Jordan Alvarez walks it off. A three-run home run for the Astros.

Absolutely devastating to the Mariners, who had a big lead. That's game one of their series in Houston. It was a comeback. Astros been trailing 7-3 through seven innings, but battled back for that stunning win. Joe, I checked my phone. Saw the Mariners up 7-3. I said, good for them, stealing one on the road.

This series is going to be interesting. And then the Astros just, hard to say, a dagger in game one. But that's tough to come back from with a team that good. They are the guys that wear the black hats. Everybody outside of Houston city limits last night upset at this moment. I saw a guy in Fenway a couple of months ago and he was wearing an orange jersey. It had it had the Astros logo and just said in small words, hate us.

It's like they're embracing it. They're the bad guys. But yeah, I really thought we went into the event, Seattle was up 7-3, and I was like, wow, Seattle, they may be the team of destiny. But boy, the Astros did to them what they did to the Blue Jays. Crazy. And of course,

the entire day was crazy, really. It started off in Atlanta where the Phillies scored runs in four of the first five innings. And it started with a two-out single to left field in the fourth. And scored two runs to extend their lead to 6-1. And the Braves would make things interesting when Matt Olsen had a three-run home run to deep center, making a one-run game in the bottom of the ninth. But the Phillies would hang on for the 7-6 win. I still think the Braves are the team that's going to be going to L.A.

But let's go now to New York. 3-2 to Rizzo. Swung on, hit high on the air to right. That ball is high. It is far. It is gone. Second deck. Rizzo rakes once again. John Sterling with the call. Very exciting. Jonathan Lemire. Look, he's like one of those fans in the right field bleachers. Lemire's bouncing up and down. He loves it. Anthony

Rizzo putting the game away. Garrett Cole had a nice night on the mound with six and a third, giving up only four hits, one run, striking out eight Guardians. And Turner lifts one to deep left field. Ranging back is Pofar, and it's a one-nothing start for the Dodgers. And then in the nightcap, that's the Dodgers. Trey Turner getting L.A. on the board early. L.A. continued their dominance over the Padres this season. L.A. won 14 of the 19 games against San Diego during the regular season. Dodgers held off a late rally by the Padres with a nice double play. Here it comes.

L.A. gets the win, 5-3, Joe. Yeah, I wonder, Willie, whether we're going to see a repeat of what we had in 77, 78, and 81. I like it. Could this be going to a Dodgers-Yankees World Series? What a classic that would be, right? Yeah, Dodgers' best team in baseball by a long shot. I'd love to see that, too, obviously, as a Yankee fan. But, John, those Houston Astros stand in the way. Just out of curiosity, how many bangs on the trash can is a hanging curveball

on the bottom of the ninth? How did he see it coming? A quick three for Jordi Alvarez there coming in for Robbie Ray. But what a devastating loss for the Mariners. They go to their Game 2 starter, Robbie Ray, who's supposed to pitch tomorrow to try to close this out. It backfires. They were going to steal 2 starter, Robbie Ray, who's supposed to pitch tomorrow, to try to close this out. It backfires. They were going to steal a win on the road, a game that Verlander starts.

They could have seized control of that series. Instead, that's a crushing defeat. Look, Yankees got what you needed, right? You know, Garrett Cole, not dominant, but good. He was good. And he was good. And that's a change because he has had his playoff struggles in recent years. I agree with Joe.

I think the Braves are still the team to beat in that Phillies series. That said, Phillies have two top-of-the-line starters, Wheeler and Nola, who haven't pitched yet. They're lined up for game two and three. It's best of five. That's dicey. The Dodgers, they're just the best. They're just a machine, Joe.

It is 111 wins. They look like they are well on their way again to head back to the playoffs. And Dave Roberts has a bit of a mixed record as a postseason manager, but he pushed the bite runs yesterday. You're being very polite to Dave Roberts because, of course, he still second. And so we always have to be polite to Dave Roberts. Yeah, he's second. All right.

Thank you. Thank you, Dave Roberts. Still one head. But the Braves, I mean, it's going to be right. Thank you. Roberts and Lurie. Still one hug. But the Braves, I mean, it's going to be hard for the Braves to be denied. You look at what they've been doing since June the 1st. Absolutely on fire. You kept looking. I keep looking every couple weeks, and they're like,

you know, the Braves, how are they doing? They've won eight out of ten games. A couple weeks later, and it's kind of like, you know, that scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid where they just keep asking, who are those guys? Two years in a row, they come out of nowhere. I've got to believe we're going to have a Braves L.A. National League Championship Series. That's what Mika believes, at least.

I know. I could have told you that a long time ago. Actually, you need to watch Mika's room. She's not even watching. She knows that's where we end up. Now that looked like a fun night. And still ahead here. I know I did. I really did. I actually did.

Have you counseled your daughter about giving up on the Mets? She can't talk about it. It hurts too much. Don't give up on the Mets. She loves her Mets, but they've let her down. You got an owner. One time too many. Not going to be denied. Okay, still ahead on Morning Joe. John Kirby of the National Security Council joins us got an owner one time too many not going to be denied okay still ahead on morning joe john kirby of the national security council joins us here on set at the top of the hour in just a few moments

to talk about uh the russia invasion of ukraine how russia continues to attack ukraine with more missile strikes plus the justice department releases an update on its investigation into the Capitol attack. We'll dig into that ahead of the House Select Committee's next public hearing that will take place tomorrow. Morning Joe is coming right back.