Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/12/23

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

Israel continues offensive against Hamas

In the days ahead, we're going to continue to work closely with our partners in Israel and around the world to ensure Israel has what it needs to defend its citizens and cities and to respond to these attacks. As I said yesterday, my commitment to Israel's security and the safety of Jewish people is unshakable. The United States has Israel's back, and I have yours as well, both at home and abroad. President Biden continues to show support and solidarity with Israel, delivering that speech yesterday while hosting Jewish leaders at the White House. We'll have the latest on the war and the Biden administration's efforts to find missing Americans. Plus, we'll go through the new reporting on the massacre by Hamas terrorists that says the terror group's main backer may have been left in the dark. We'll discuss how that aligns with previous reports. Also ahead, an update from Capitol Hill on the speaker's race.

Republicans have a nominee, but it is not clear if he's got the votes to get the gavel. I mean, Willie, it looks like more chaos, more chaos from Republicans. We have, of course, just an existential challenge for the people of Israel who are going to need support from Congress. We have an existential challenge from Ukraine. And with all this going on, I mean, you look and see what may be happening in Taiwan. If we're if if, you know, one domino falls after another, we need Congress and Congress with the speaker. Yeah. And Steve Scalise is the nominee, but nowhere in the neighborhood of having the votes he needs. That's why they didn't hold a vote yesterday. They get back in at noon today, probably not going to have a vote then because he's just not there. This is going to be a replay, frankly, of what Kevin McCarthy went through in January, as you say, with the stakes even higher, though, because of what's happening in Israel right now.

Right. Jonathan O'Meara, we just because again, because Congress is in past have understood the importance of having a speaker, you have a hard set rule. And that is you go to conference or you go to caucus, you vote the person with the most votes inside the Republican conference or the Democratic caucus. They go to the floor and they're the speaker and everybody votes for him, because if not, there would be chaos. And and, you know, again, borrowing from the Logan Roy line, these are not serious people. They really are. They are proving what what complete reckless, irresponsible people they are by allowing this to go on while we have all of these crises across the globe. Yeah, it's the chaos conference and some of the stunts to get attention by law. Some of their members in recent days, Nancy Mace wearing a scar letter A on her shirt for some reason, George Santos running

through the hallways, trying to avoid reporters, both of them coming out against Scalise. And you're right. Scalise narrowly topped Jordan yesterday behind closed doors. They can't bring a vote to the floor. He's not even close. It's not just the eight that we know of. There's growing sense. The numbers could be a dozen, 20 or more votes against Scalise. It's not just the eight that we know of. There's growing sense the numbers could be a dozen, 20 or more votes against Galise. It's unclear if he'll ever get to the vote for a floor despite a whipping operation now. And if this stretches on and other candidates come forward, what that does, Joe Mika, of course, that slows down any ability for the U.S. to really aid Israel at this time of crisis. Well, and again, the Republicans have been trusted, just barely, but trusted with one wing of government.

And they're completely making fools of themselves. And they're undermining America's national security. They're undermining our ability to help the Israelis, help the Ukrainians, to help our allies across the globe. It is serious. It is dire. They need to get serious very soon. At a dire time, as Israel continues to launch strikes into Gaza in an effort to neutralize

Hamas targets while Israel's military prepares for a potential ground operation, warplanes have leveled buildings along the Gaza Strip since Israel declared war on Sunday. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agreed to form an emergency unity government, bringing a centrist political rival into his cabinet, someone who previously served as Israel's chief of staff for the military. After the first meeting of his country's emergency government yesterday, Netanyahu said Israel is on the offensive, promised to crush and eliminate Hamas and said, quote, every member of Hamas is a dead man. Willie, let's go straight to Israel where we find NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel near the border with Gaza. Richard, what are you seeing there this morning? Well, good morning. So today we are right on the border with Gaza. We are inside Israel. But to give you a sense of the distances here, if you look just beyond those power lines,

you'll see a built up area where there are plumes of smoke and there have been explosions from incoming Israeli fire. That is the Gaza Strip. That is the Hamas stronghold. And that right now is in Israel's crosshairs. The airstrikes are continuing, according to an Israeli military official who gave a briefing this morning. These are the most intense strikes against Gaza that Israel has ever carried out.

They are describing this as unprecedented, just as the Hamas terror attacks inside Israel, which left close to or maybe even more. They're still the death toll is still going up. Thirteen hundred Israelis dead. That was also unprecedented. The next phase is a ground assault. And according to the Israeli military, they are ready. They are just awaiting orders. And throughout this area, we've been seeing a buildup of troops. There have been tanks and APCs, armored personnel carriers and artillery brought in, jeeps full of troops, reservists. Israel's called up around 360,000 reservists, and they are now being mobilized.

So we are preparing, bracing for this next phase of the war. And Secretary of State Blinken has arrived in Israel. He's on a diplomatic mission to try and contain this war to Israel and Gaza. The concern is that it would spread to Lebanon. Israel has also reinforced the northern border along the Lebanese border. But I can tell you, having watched this and other conflicts before, once these bombs start flying and there are casualties, it is very difficult to contain a war. Richard, we know that there are at least 100, maybe up to 150 hostages being held inside of Gaza. We also know that Hamas has an elaborate network of tunnels and places to hide those

hostages. There's been talk of Israeli commandos going in on rescue missions. Even the White House wouldn't rule out yesterday that Navy SEALs or Green Berets could go in to rescue American hostages. Can you speak to the difficulty of those potential missions? So the operation, if or perhaps when Israeli troops do go in, the operation will be extraordinarily complex because Hamas has defenses, because Hamas has booby traps and tunnels. And of course, because of these hostages and the the operation will also involve hostage rescues. So generally, and this is not the first time that Israeli troops have gone into the Gaza Strip. They used to occupy the Gaza Strip in the past. When they have gone in, they enter Gaza from multiple directions. They enter from the north, from the sides,

they cut off the main roads. And part of this operation will certainly be commando missions to try and rescue some of the hostages. According to the Israeli military, they have already located some of the positions where the hostages, they believe the hostages are being held. They, of course, for obvious reasons, are not saying where those locations are or how many people might be in those locations. But it is the first indication that we have heard from Israel of any kind that they are gaining intelligence, gathering more information about potential locations where they think the hostages may have been taken. NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel inside Israel right along the border with Gaza. Richard, thank you so much for your reporting. We always appreciate it. And joining us now,

international spokesman for Israeli Defense Forces, Major Doron Spielman. Major Spielman, thank you for being with us this morning. I'll pick it up right there. Do you all have a sense for where some of these 100 or 150 hostages are? And if so, are you preparing missions to rescue them? So, first of all, when we say the word hostages, we have to understand that this whole state of Israel is really maybe the size of New Jersey. You're talking less than 10 million people. And these hostages, everybody in Israel either has a family member who is a hostage, knows somebody who's a hostage,

or has a son or daughter or a father or mother who are now have been called up to the front lines because of the situation. And so it's a very personal situation right now. These hostages are literally everybody's family. This is a top priority for the state of Israel. There's no question. We have operation teams that are being headed by generals that have been created that are combining both intel and ops to identify the hostages and everything else that goes around that.

And of course, this is a major element of our operational scenario. At the same time, we have the back end. Every one of these hostages has families. Some of their families have been destroyed. It could be a remaining three-year-old brother, but we have an entire, almost a ministry set up right now to deal with that entire back end. So as we look on our operational objectives, first and foremost, it's clear we have got to destroy completely Hamas's ability

to ever do this again. If they think that by displaying the hostages or the hostages are going to help them in this respect, they're wrong. It's clear that they are an evil that absolutely needs to be truly defeated. So, Major, in terms of that fact, the need to destroy Hamas and balancing the effort to save the hostages, what are you saying to the families when you communicate with them about the very latest in the efforts. How do you explain this balance? Again, in many of these cases, I have to tell you these families and I've met the families. It's hard to believe that many of these families who have people have been taken as hostages, their other children are right now in the army that are part of the fighting force of the state of Israel in many, many, many cases.

It's a very, very personal situation that they're torn in both ends. On one hand, they have people who are missing. On the other hand, they have people who put on a green uniform and were all of a sudden called to service. What they know and what the people of Israel are unified by is that we know that Hamas as an entity, the massacre that they carried out seven days ago, they revealed their true face. We've been saying for years to the world, this is what they what we thought they were. We were even shocked by the gravity and just truly the cruelty of what they did. Everyone is unified, including those families that Hamas has got to be removed from the scene because we can never allow this to happen again in the future. We have to do this very, very carefully with enormous care and precision. It's not going to

be an overnight campaign. This is a war. We are at war right now. And the war is what it's going to take to defeat them. And Major, that obviously leads to one of the big concerns. David Ignatius with The Washington Post wrote that that Israel's macabre mission impossible is to destroy the terror networks, to crush Hamas, to make sure they can never do it again. But at the same time, protect civilian lives, protect Palestinians whenever you can. Could you just for Americans that are watching, and then, you know, it will see strikes against buildings in Gaza. Can you explain what those targets are that you were striking out against? And can you also explain what Israel is doing to minimize civilian casualties while trying to degrade and destroy the Hamas terror network.

Absolutely. And we have to understand that Israel is in a state of war. After the massacre that was inflicted, we've clearly said there's been a paradigm shift here. We are absolutely clear with ourselves and with the world that we are going to destroy Hamas's capabilities completely. At the same time, Hamas, we have to understand the situation that we're in. Hamas came over our border and massacred Israeli civilians. They then ran back over their own border, hid inside of their basements, and told their wives and children, go to sleep upstairs just above us in the apartment block above us. Meaning the cynicism and the kind of the how grotesque that is, is hard to put our hands on.

But they've created a situation of terror on our side and terror on their side. Every single one of our targets is a military target that has been vetted with intelligence. Now, whenever we can, we notify the civilian population in Arabic. This can be done via messages on phones. This can be done via messages on phones. This can be done via leaflets. When we can, we fire warning shots and we ask them to clear out of the area as much as possible. I only wish that if Hamas, who claims to be the champion of the rights of the people in Gaza, cared about them even a little bit, that they would understand how important it is for

them to separate them from the scene of fighting. The question really needs to be addressed to Hamas, because they knew when they did this that we would have to come after them like any country would. And they're putting their own families directly above them. And Major, if you could, I'm sorry to make you explain things that seem so basic to you, but for Americans watching, if you could explain for those that are saying Israel is a great occupier of the Palestinian people, can you explain that Israel turned Gaza over to the Palestinians in 2005? They've had one election since then. And really, the greatest victims of Hamas have been the Palestinian people who have watched them forego aid, forego international help, forego the ability for Hamas to actually be growing and thriving because their singular

obsession is on killing Jews and destroying Israel. I absolutely could not agree with you more. And I'll tell you from a personal outlook, I was there the day that we literally pulled our families out of Gaza. I knew people in Gaza. We pulled them out. They understood at the end of the day, this is for the peace of Israel. We had reached a safe area outside of Gaza. And all of a sudden we hear warning sirens and rockets begin falling. And maybe in almost naivete, we're looking up at the sky trying to understand, wait a second, we just pulled out of Gaza. This is 2005. There's not an Israeli left in Gaza. Why are they shooting rockets? And then we've seen the images from that point on, all the humanitarian aid, the electricity, the power, the cement, instead of going into hospitals

and in universities to advance their own civilization, their own population, they've been used to create tunnels, to ferry weapons, send terror attacks and rockets back into Israel. As you mentioned, they had one election. Their opponents were thrown off the roofs of buildings in Gaza. That is what they did with the other party, not much of a democracy. And since then, the people of Gaza truly are the victims of Hamas. Hamas, as you mentioned, it is almost like a cult that is dedicated to death. It is the death of the Israelis, absolutely. And indirectly, or perhaps directly, it is the death of their own people. The people cannot move forward. Even the humanitarian aid crossings at Erez, which I've

been to so many times, with all the trucks of humanitarian aid and the fuel for the Palestinian people. That was one of the very first places that Hamas bombed. They killed the troops. They killed the people attending and they bombed the crossing. So no humanitarian aid can reach their own people. That is the situation in Gaza. And there has not been an Israeli living inside of Gaza for almost 20 years. There's no occupation of Gaza. Yeah. You know, Willie, it's the one thing I've been talking to leaders in Republican and Democratic administrations

that have wrestled with this problem since 2005, and they all say the same thing. Any funding that gets in there, any supplies that get in there, if they put in supplies for bridges, they're immediately constructed into war tunnels. Everything is converted by Hamas. So any aid meant to help the people end up going into their war making machine. It's just they don't they they haven't cared about the Palestinian people in Gaza and they never will, because it is again, it is a cult of death where their goal is, and they say it, their goal is to kill Jews.

Yeah, that's right in the charter when the organization was born and also using their own people as human shields, even as we speak. Major, there's been some dispute about the role of Iran in the savage attack of last weekend. We know, of course, that Iran backs Hamas. There's no doubt about that with finance and weapons and everything else. But the question is, was there a direct order from Iran? Was there a green light for this attack on over the weekend? So what is your sense of that? Is there, in fact, evidence that Iran directed this attack through Hamas on Israel? Iran's involvement in the Middle East and with the regimes that are attacking Israel is not even a

secret. We know that the head of Hamas met with Raisi, the head of Iran, in June. They were very public about their discussion about the Gaza Strip and about what's happening with Israel. There's no attempt to even hide this. These are really tentacles of Iran. It's also no secret that the United States has moved its carrier fleet into our area, really. And I think what's important is to send a message, because it's going to take a while for that intelligence story really to come out. And certainly I'm not at liberty right now to go into this. But the U.S.'s involvement here is so important because that carrier fleet is really sending a message. We're not looking to get involved in any type of regional ramp up here.

We are focused on Hamas and Gaza. And I think our support from the U.S. and other allies around the area, around the world, will hopefully send that as a very clear message to the other players in the region. And if there were a direct line discovered through intelligence from Iran to this attack, what would be the implications for Israel? I think that that would probably need to be discussed by the defense establishment, not by me at this time. International spokesman for Israel's defense forces, Major Daron Spielman, thank you very much for updating us this morning on Morning Joe. We're

going to take a one minute pause here. But coming up in Israel, where moments from now we're expected to hear from Secretary of State Blinken and also from Benjamin, his counterpart and Benjamin Netanyahu about the ongoing war. We'll take those remarks live. We'll also get the latest reporting from The Washington Post's David Ignatius. We're back in one minute. This attack was a campaign of pure cruelty, not just hate, but pure cruelty against the Jewish people. And I would argue it's the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust. The deadliest day since the Holocaust. One of the worst chapters in human history that reminded us all of that expression

I learned from my dad early on, silence is complicity. I mean, silence is complicity. It really is. And I want you to know, I think you've already figured it out, I refuse to be silent. That's President Biden speaking yesterday. He spoke several times yesterday, though, at that point, he was speaking to Jewish leaders.

Long, personal, emotional discussion just about how this cannot stand. Let's bring in David Ignatius. David, I was struck by, well, what we've known and what we've known since these first reports came out, but you put it so well, where you talked about, let me just read a bit of this. The Gaza operation poses two agonizing challenges, which will tragically seem to be in conflict. First, Israel must restore deterrence against its enemies in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon and Iran. After Saturday's devastating attack, at the same time, it must minimize civilian casualties and save the lives of as many hostages as it can. This seems like a macabre mission impossible. And it really does, David.

It really does seem like an impossible mission. And the second these reports came out, you knew, just like the Palestinians knew, just like Hamas knew before the attacks, that many of the victims of this war would be the Palestinian people because the Hamas leadership uses them as human shields. And they have since 2005. Joe, I have a feeling that Israel has decided that it must put the security of the state above the security of any individual, including the hostages that it hopes to protect. But the security of the state comes first. Looking at the preparations, listening to

Major Spielman, the spokesman, to Richard Engel's reporting, I see Israel preparing carefully for an absolutely decisive campaign. I'm reminded during World War II of the moment when Franklin Roosevelt decided that the goal was unconditional surrender of the Germans in the European campaign, unconditional surrender, something completely different. And I hear that same tone of voice from Israelis. They're waiting at the gates of Gaza. They're carefully thinking about all the contingencies, how difficult this operation will be. I feel certain, based on my reading of military technology, that they're going to use drones, robots, many, many technology devices to minimize the loss of life, both for themselves and for people, civilians in Gaza.

You can fly a drone through every room in a skyscraper and see who's there and then begin to take action. Those kinds of technologies, I'm sure, will be used. I'm also struck by the fact that Secretary Blinken is in the region meeting with King Abdullah and Jordan, meeting with other regional leaders, meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Why? To begin to think about the day after this conflict ends. What will replace this terrible rule of Hamas that's been this plundered Gaza? What will come in its place? And I'm glad to see the Israelis and the United States through Secretary Blinken thinking about that. So in every way, it seems to me this is a moment of careful, deliberate preparation

on the battlefield for what's going to be a big war. And after that big war, like you said, discussions on how peace can be brought to this region. Peace talks have really been with the Palestinians at least, been on hold now for better part of two decades. So you are exactly right. The war is before us now, just like war was after 9-11. And after that, what kind of peace can be put in place? So, David, I'm wondering whether your reporting suggests that Hamas made a miscalculate. One of its many miscalculations was that the Israelis at one time were willing to give up a thousand prisoners for one hostage. Wonder if that's looking more and more like a miscalculation in the grabbing of these hostages, because from what I'm hearing and from what I'm just

picking up and gathering, like you said, the Israelis are going to worry first about destroying Hamas. If they can get the hostages back while destroying Hamas, they will do that. But I have a feeling that the first goal for them is the only goal for them right now. Joe, putting yourself into the mind of a Hamas attack planners is impossible. But one thing that I've been haunted by is they must have known after an attack of this savagery that the retaliation from Israel would be punishing, that they would come in with everything they have. So what other surprises do they have waiting? That's what troubles me. And they surprised Israel last Saturday in a way Israelis could never have imagined. How could they do this? Flying paragliders and all the things that they did. What other surprises have they got waiting in the streets of Gaza?

Again, we can't know. We're hoping the Israelis, through their intelligence, are beginning to get a better sense of that. I'm sure there are people on the ground and various people and robots on the ground getting new information that's helpful. But that's a troubling worry. As I said, they must have known that this next phase of the war in which Israel would invade on the ground would happen. I'm told by Arab intelligence sources that the avenues of approach into Gaza that Richard Engel was describing in his reporting are heavily mined, have IEDs, have anti-tank weapons that have been in place waiting for just this moment. Again, I'm sure the Israelis are aware of that and are trying

to deal with it. But, you know, it's just a moment just before the dawn of this battle when I'm glad the Israelis are taking a little time to think carefully about each of these contingencies. David, let's get your analysis. There's been some mixed messaging, mixed signals about a couple of things, one being the role Iran may have played here. Of course, we know Iran backs Hamas. Hamas wouldn't exist without Iran. That's a given. But it's not clear yet if they were directly involved. The Wall Street Journal suggests yes. The New York Times says no, according to officials. And there's also some mixed signals out of what's happening in the north there with Hezbollah out of Lebanon. The Israeli Defense Forces yesterday said an attack has begun.

And they had to later walk that back and said, well, there may have been a little skirmish. But, you know, we kind of missed what was going on there. Give us a sense. It's obviously the fog of war. But what are U.S. officials telling you as to what they think is happening? So I think their their primary concern right now is to prevent the obvious temptation from various other parties to get into this conflict from happening. very much wants to see this as a one front war. If you opened up a northern front attacks over the Lebanese border and an eastern front attacks from Syria, it's a much more difficult war. As has been said, that's the reason our aircraft carrier task force is there to signal,

don't, don't do it. You have more power than you can imagine staring you in the face. But when these conflicts begin, if people see Gaza being pounded, they're going to want to jump in. There's going to be enormous pressure and forgive the term, the Arab street. Again, I'm pleased to see Secretary Blinken in the region. This is not a time for diplomacy exactly, but it's a time for studying, for conversations, to go to each of the leaders that we know, worked with for so many years, and talk about how to restrain the various players, put pressure on Hezbollah through indirect channels. On the fundamental question of Iran, most analysts I talk to say the Iranians are not

likely to want to jump into a major conflict with the United States or Israel right now. That's just not their style. They like deniable covert actions. They like sending signals, sending a few rockets to remind everybody they're there. but they don't want to be in a major, major war, at least at this point, from what my sources tell me. All right. David Ignatius stays with us. And coming up, the White House is not ruling out sending U.S. troops to Gaza to bring home Americans being held hostage by Hamas. We'll get an update from Deputy National Security Advisor John Feiner. Plus, the former Israeli ambassador to the United States will join us to explain why he says this

war isn't like Israel's earlier wars. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. The House majority chose Scalise by a vote of 113 to 99. It's still unclear, though, if he has enough votes to win the speakership, because that would require Republicans to accept the results of an election. That's really not their thing. 34 past the hour, Republicans appear one step closer to electing a new House speaker. But we still don't have any idea when a vote will take place on the House floor. During a closed-door party meeting yesterday,

Louisiana Congressman Steve Scalise defeated Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan for the Republican nomination to be speaker and replace ousted Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Republicans then delayed a House vote to confirm Scalise because he doesn't have the 217, the number of votes he needs. The New York Times points out several Republican lawmakers announced they would not back Scalise on the House floor without concessions, complaining of a rushed process to choose. Oh, my God.

A rushed process. Hello. You left the speakership vacant for the first time in American history. War is ripping across the Middle East. Do you want to wait? Why? Until after the next election? I mean, and well, anyhow, complaining of a rushed process and also voicing skepticism that he could unite their conference. Who can really? Let's bring in right now.

Congressional investigations reporter for The Washington Post, Jackie Elney. Jackie, you know, you had John Boehner who basically said, I can't you know what? I can't deal with these guys. I'm going home, going golf and going to drink some Merlot and smoke a cigar. Then you have Paul Ryan saying, I can't deal with these guys. I'm going to go home. Kevin McCarthy, of course, last week said he's not running again. And here you have, as you know, here you have a rite of passage that's been going on for hundreds of years where a conference or a caucus selects its speaker by a majority vote inside the conference.

They go to the House floor and everybody votes for him. That's how it's done. So there will be an orderly process and actually work can get done. The people's work can get done. Legislation can get passed and our allies like Israel and Ukraine can be supported. Not here. I mean, how long, Jackie, are they willing to continue this madness, this chaos in the only branch of government Americans have entrusted them with? There was, Joe, cautious optimism yesterday that lawmakers could potentially rally around at least one of these candidates, Steve Scalise or Jim Jordan, after their closed door meeting where they took a secret ballot on either candidate and maybe get that done yesterday afternoon, take the vote to the House floor and move on and start focusing of the situation and that Steve Scalise, the frontrunner and I think clearer frontrunner, at least yesterday morning, ended up having far more opposition than I think people realized. I think there was a little bit of confusion amongst the

Capitol Hill press corps because there was this conference rules package that people were debating that was put forward by Chip Roy. And there was more opposition to that. And I think that's what people were sort of distracted by. And there was less realization that actually a lot of the opposition was also paired with Steve Scalise. Scalise himself was also whipping against this rules package. That didn't sit well with a lot of members. And the more I think it was sort of a tinderbox kind of situation where the more Republicans that came out of that closed door meeting in the Longworth House building yesterday saying that they were going to vote for former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and still had an ax to grind with those eight firebrand Republicans who ousted him last week. Things quickly deteriorated. And now we're not even sure when a House when a House vote is going

to happen or whether Jim Jordan or Scalise is ultimately going to be the nominee. Yeah. I mean, Jackie, you had some moderate Republicans coming out of that meeting yesterday say, I didn't vote for either of them because I don't think we should have gotten rid of Kevin McCarthy in the first place. This is a clown show talking about their own caucus. So he's not even close, Steve Scalise, to the votes he needed. You got 113, but 99 votes against. What changes that dynamic if you have these holdouts who wouldn't vote for Kevin McCarthy, say they won't vote for Steve Scalise? Like what what gives here? When will there be a speaker? Yeah. So Steve Scalise right now can if he does ultimately become the nominee and they take the vote to the House floor, which I think the conference wants to avoid doing until there is

some sort of real coalescing around someone, they don't want the same situation that they had with McCarthy, where they have to take this vote 14 times. It was a very tortured, embarrassing, drawn out process. And right now, Scalise is facing 20 to 30 people who oppose him. And you've seen a litany of complaints across the board from people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who say that he needs to focus on fighting cancer and might not be equipped to have such a huge and important job during a really important time for House Republicans and the party writ large, to people like Nancy Mace, who say that they don't want someone who used to be a supporter of David Duke and the KKK being the face of the conference. Of course, there's still some resistance to Jim Jordan

as well. There were a lot of people yesterday who were saying he is far from the House Freedom caucus guy that, you know, he initially was as much less of a rabble rouser. But there is some fierce resistance still to these from these moderates who feel like he is just too conservative when it comes to fiscal issues. You know, there are there's now some rumors of these dark horses coming through people like maybe Tom Emmer, pro tem speaker Patrick McHenry, who we've sort of been keeping an eye on all along, someone who might benefit from the chaos and emerge unscathed as the speaker. But I think that there are going to be a lot of conversations behind closed doors today before we really see any indication of when the House floor vote is going to happen and

who the nominee is going to be. In Colorado, Congressman Ken Buck said that he wouldn't support either Scalise or Jordan until they could definitively say who won the 2020 election, which he says neither of them has done to this point. So, Jackie, obviously, as the Republicans remain in chaos, the clock is ticking towards both the government shutdown now just a little over a month away. And, of course, every hour goes by with the U.S. being unable to fully back Israel. So is there anything on that latter part, the Israel piece of this, is there anything in the short term the House can do? I know there have been some speculation about maybe McHenry could lead some measure to get funding going on there. What are the latest what are the latest talks? And is the Israel part of this adding any urgency to the speaker conversations? Yeah. I mean, this is the problem with this House GOP conference. There's lots of urgency.

There are lots of very strong opinions. You had lawmakers right off the bat this week. The first person I ran into was Elise Stefanik. I asked her about a supplemental aid package to Israel and whether or not she would eventually go along with some of the rumblings we had heard of the White House's desire to tie this to aid for Ukraine, Taiwan and border security. And she, like many others, immediately came out and said, no way we have enough support in the House conference to get this through as a standalone package to provide support to Israel. But, you know, a few days later, while this was in some of the pitches as well, you heard Steve Scalise tell his members behind closed door that he was the person to lead the conference because of his expertise with Israel. Now this is sort of dissipated. Everyone has very short memories here. And while there is a sense of urgency, lots of people coming to the

cameras making, you know, fiery statements, at the end of the day, there are not enough people willing to rally around someone and sort of put their their their politics and their their petty grievances behind them to get a speaker and start, you know, get back to business. It is all, all so very petty. The Washington Post, Jackie Alomany, thank you. We really appreciate it as always. And so so we have we have Israel, Ukraine, the southern border, Taiwan. We've got these massive issues before us, Willie, that have to be addressed. And yet you have two speaker candidates that were running yesterday that, as Ken Buck of Colorado said,

neither one of them have said yet who they believe won the 2020 election. If you want to know where the Republican Party is in 2023, the two leading candidates for speaker. Well, neither one of them have said who won the 2020 election. This is this party. This is a this is a party that is so lost right now and just wandering around aimlessly in right field. Yeah. And that's not the fringe. That's leadership. That's the two choices who want to run the caucus in the House of Representatives, the United States of America won't say who won the 2020 election. Think about that for a minute. We've gotten used to it over the last couple of years, but that's absolutely insane that they're

still running defense. They're still running interference for Donald Trump, who's running for president again. And by the way, I maybe we won't play it, but he truly yesterday an insane event where he was talking about we're going to show Barack Obama is actually running the government criticizing Bibi Netanyahu saying I want to make sure I get the quote right, that Hezbollah is, quote, very smart Hezbollah. So that's the guy that they're defending right now, while the sitting president of the United States makes speeches in defense of Israel, unequivocal defenses and looks like a president, frankly, while Donald Trump is truly, truly appearing to be off the rails and frankly, out of his Out of his mind, I mean, praising Hezbollah, just like he praised Vladimir Putin, said he was brilliant after the invasion of Ukraine.

All the praise that he's had for President Xi in China, always talking about what a brilliant man he is. Same thing, of course, with the tyrannical leader of North Korea. You know, out of his mind. And again, the fact that Republicans are embracing this guy just is just absolutely crazy. Absolutely.

Here we go. This is Hezbollah. Very smart. Crazy Chinese President Xi Jinping, dictator who has overseen China's downfall over the past five years. A very smart man. Russian President Vladimir Putin, a genius and savvy. North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, who is considered by most human rights organizations to be the most tyrannical, the most oppressive leader in the world. He calls him, quote, a great leader. Look at that. Look, that's your Republican Party right

there. That's that's your Republican Party. That's the guy who is in who's in first place in the Republican contest to be the next presidential nominee for the GOP, while you have two people that are the leaders running for speaker and who still can't tell you who won the 2020 election. It is it's absolutely crazy. You have all these arguments about Joe Biden and his age. Please take a look at him over the past two days. And you mentioned Taiwan, you mentioned Ukraine, you mentioned the situation in Israel and the Middle East. Now, Joe Biden is basically managing a conflict and an entire world order. And he's doing it with clarity and with context and with a sense of humanity.

Yeah. You know, you stack up any policy press conference that Donald Trump had, any, any over four years, compare them to any that Biden's had. It's just not even a close call. Biden might stumble. He may stutter. He may speak slowly. He may lose his train of thought once in a while.

That said, unlike Donald Trump, he actually knows he's running the government now and he knows who he ran against in 2020. Unlike Donald Trump, who still thinks he what's his obsession with Obama, by the way? Oh, always, always, always, always, always obsessed. Always obsessed. Remember where it all started. Always obsessed. He was bragging about beating Barack Obama in 2016 and said he was way ahead of Barack Obama in the polls right now. He's got this singular obsession, Willie, with Barack Obama. It's not a good look. Well, one of the founding fathers of the birther movement. Remember that?

So that was an obsession with Barack Obama. And now I don't I guess I don't hang out in the dark corners of the Internet where the former president of the United States does. But apparently there's an idea that it's actually the former president, Barack Obama, who's running the government right now somehow. And Donald Trump made that case at a rally last night while criticizing the prime minister of Israel and praising Hezbollah. Well, that would be great. That would be a that'd be a newsflash to the former president, who's probably on a yacht right now somewhere in Bali. He has not had time to run the government. He's been traveling.

Still ahead, Israel is now preparing for the next stage of the war against Hamas as the conflict enters its sixth day. We're following all the angles from Israel to the White House and beyond. And what we're now learning about Iran's role in all of this. Deputy National Security Advisor John Feiner will give us an update in just a few moments. Also, some some really shocking outcomes of Major League Baseball in the playoffs last night. We're going to show you those. And a team that many consider to be, you know, the favorite to win the World Series out.

That and much more when Morning Joe returns. Then there was the inevitable attack four days later, which I predicted. And then two nights ago, I read all of Biden's security people. Can you imagine national defense people? And they said, gee, I hope Hezbollah doesn't attack from the north because that's the most vulnerable spot. I said, wait a minute. You know, Hezbollah is very smart. They're all very smart. Israel security and the safety of Jewish people is unshakable.

The United States has Israel's back, and I have yours as well, both at home and abroad. We're surging additional military assistance to the Israeli defense force, including ammunition, interceptors to replenish the Iron Dome, and we we moved the U.S. carrier fleet to the eastern Mediterranean and were sending more fighter jets there in that region and made it clear, made it clear to the Iranians, be careful. That was President Biden yesterday at the White House reaffirming his support for Israel and warning Iran against interfering. Let's bring in former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren. He joins us now from Tel Aviv.

And The Washington Post's David Ignatius has the first question. David. So, Ambassador Oren, I want to ask about one of Prime Minister Netanyahu's key statements, which is that Hamas in the campaign that's coming will be, in his words, crushed and eliminated. And I want to ask you what Israel envisions as the future governance in Gaza. You left Gaza nearly 20 years ago and were happy to get out. I assume Israel doesn't want to own Gaza again. But who, Mr. Ambassador, do you imagine running Gaza once Hamas is crushed? Good morning, David. Good to be with you. Good to see you. And Mika Jo, good to see you, too.

Very tough time here, as you know. And just a word about the president's speech, if you would, at a time when all of Israel is in mourning. And we're all shocked and dismayed by people we know, families that have been wiped out, babies who've been dismembered, decapitated, everything you could possibly, every horror to have the president of the United States get up there and give a speech like that. And, you know, I've been in this business, David, you know, for a very long time as you have. And I think you agree with me. I've never heard a speech like that in my life about a president of the United States for the people of Israel. And we're all standing in front of the television crying, frankly. And we're all very grateful, really very, very grateful. It's a great question, David. And I'm not a spokesman for the government anymore. I'm not in office. But I would say this.

It has always been an issue. Every time we've gone to war with Hamas, and this is now the sixth round, the same question comes up. OK, you don't want to go back to the status quo, Anthony, where we're basically paying off Hamas with Qatari mummy and allowing workers to come in so that perhaps Hamas would have something to lose. About 20,000 Gazan workers were coming into Israel every day. You know, it's a lot of money by certain Gaza standards, good salaries, social benefits. But apparently, Hamas does not operate according to that cost-benefit analysis.

They have their own jihadist universe in which, you know, killing babies and raping women is the most important thing they can do. And then the question is, okay, you go in, you rid Gaza of Hamas, and then Israel is left at the end holding the keys to Gaza, and you say, okay, who's going to take these keys? We're going back to being in a situation where, say, we're occupying the Gaza Strip and our soldiers are being killed every week. We've been there. I've spent myself years as a soldier patrolling the alleys of Gaza. So we don't want to be there. I think the most

important thing right now is for the government of Israel to engage in a very intimate and detailed conversation with our American allies, but also with our new Arab allies, with the Saudis, with whom we hope to make a peace soon, with the signatories of the Abraham Accords, about perhaps some type of international, highly Arab-centric force who could take over from Gaza and oversee its reconstruction and oversee the building there of an alternative leadership, perhaps involving elements of the Palestinian Authority. I think that would be very important. But we have to think about this now, not in two months from now. So, Mr. Ambassador, that's a very helpful response, the clearest I've heard. I want to ask you to address what in some ways is the most vexing part of this situation ahead,

which is how the Israeli Defense Force can go into Gaza and crush its adversary without killing the perhaps 150 hostages who were there. Just give us a sense of how the Israeli military is going to approach that really nightmarish problem. Yeah, there's no ends of authority questions here, right, David? I mean, also, there are about 2 million people, Palestinian civilians in Gaza. We have to deal with that issue as well. And certainly, we have no interest in hurting those civilians and certainly preserving the lives of our hostages, also American citizens, and how to do that. And, you know, on a purely strategic level, it'd be the equivalent of, say, if on 9-11 al-Qaeda had taken hostages, how would America treat that situation? Would it stop America from

responding militarily to the attacks of 9-11? Israel has to respond. We have to defend ourselves. At the same time, we have to remember their lives are at stake here. And I know families of people whose children, whose loved ones are held hostage there. So it's intensely personal, this question. It's not abstract in any way. So what we have to do is we have special forces, as you know. This is their job. This is what they're trained to do. The greatest challenge will be to locate the position of the hostages. You may remember years ago with Gilad Shalit, one Israeli soldier who was taken captive back in 2010, and he was held prisoner for five years. We couldn't locate him. We didn't know. Hamas has this underground warren of headquarters and

tunnels. Very difficult. So that's going to be a huge challenge, an intelligence challenge. We have technologies now that we've developed for tunnel detection and knowing what's in the tunnels. We shared that technology with Homeland Security. And we'll use it. We'll use it to the best we can. So we have to counterbalance, on one hand, our tremendous need to defend ourselves against this horrendous, barbaric threat, barbaric, this medieval barbaric threat. On the other hand, to take in consideration the lives of these hostages, every single one of whom is precious to us. Ambassador, good morning. Forgive me if I interrupt you. We're awaiting a news conference, a joint news conference in Tel Aviv

from Prime Minister Netanyahu and Secretary of State Blinken. So I may interrupt to jump into that. But you did mention the barbarism that we saw, especially in some of these kibbutzes near the border. And I know some of these stories are personal to you, including one of a family that was slaughtered, including their young children. Yes, it's Tamar Kedem Simantov. She grew up with my children. She's part of my community.

She was in the Scouts there. She was in the Scouts with my kids. She studied karate with my kids. She and her sister, just a beautiful family. We see pictures like this every day. Yesterday, I learned that the rabbi who married my daughter, wonderful man, his two sons, they're reserve officers. As soon as they heard about the fighting, they simply left their families, put on their uniform and went down south and neither of them came home. They're being buried right now as we're talking. So the. Pay is unbearable. And going back to what I said before about the president's speech, can you imagine what it meant for us to hear that? The stories that we're hearing and I understand the emotion of this.

In fact, I can't understand it, frankly, but we're hearing these stories and seeing these faces. And especially when there are children of that age involved. It's it's unthinkable. And we certainly understand the emotions that are coming out through through you right now on behalf of an entire country. And I wonder how significant this moment is because of the extent of the barbarism in terms of the Israeli response? How will the way that this act of barbarism was carried out impact the response from Israel here? You know, and I know I speak for David here, too. We learned to read between the lines of political speeches and diplomatic speeches. So in the middle of the president's speech, there was a line about how, you know, the U.S. military operates according to law. We know that the Israeli military operates according to law,

too, and very much in contradistinction to Hamas, which does not. And what he was basically saying, I understood it, was that I'm going out on a limb here. I'm going up against a dysfunctional Congress. I'm going up against a bipartisan support for non-involvement in Middle East military entanglements. I'm doing all this. But you, Israel, help me to help you by making sure you limit to the greatest possible extent civilian casualties, collateral damage. I understood that clearly. And it's going to be a huge challenge, mentioned before, because we're going into a densely populated area, about two million Palestinians. The area is booby trapped. It's going to be a huge challenge, mentioned before, because we're going into a densely populated area, about two million Palestinians. The area is booby trapped. It's mined. The distinction between how much people don't wear uniforms.

It's very difficult distinguishing a civilian from from from a terrorist in these situations. I've been in them. I know how difficult this is. And Israel will take every possible measure to avoid that. We now know the Air Force is operating. they drop leaflets, they send SMS texts, they do this knock-knock thing. It's a non-explosive missile that hits the top of a building and lets people in the building know that that building may be targeted so they can all get out. That's really the best we can do at this point. And discuss various ways of humanitarian corridors and support for essential foodstuffs and medicines. I'm sure that will be taken care of. But at the same time, it's going to be a great challenge. And here's my, I want to get to your question.

I'm not dodging it in any way. Is that there's a tremendous amount of anger here. And I've been, the last couple of days, been attending funerals and mourning sessions, shivas. And I talked to the families. And many of them are saying, you know, we want vengeance. We're so, so angry. And it's going to be a challenge for any society. If you remember what America was like on September 12th, 2001,

that sense of anger. And we're going to have to control that the best we can in our soldiers. And so many of these soldiers, just like me, they've known people who have been massacred and taken hostage and dismembered and raped. And that is going to be a huge challenge for Israel as a society, as a member of the civil rights world.