Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/1/24

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

The Morning Joe panel discusses the latest in U.S. and world news, politics, sports and culture.

live picture just before six o'clock in the morning of the united states capital good morning welcome to morning joe it is tuesday october 1st we have reached october and a very very busy tuesday morning including thousands of dock workers from new england to texas now on strike a work stoppage that will have a significant impact on the American economy with the latest reporting from CNBC. Also ahead, an update on the recovery efforts across the southeast as President Biden is now set to get a firsthand look at the devastating storm damage in North Carolina. We also will have a live report from the Middle East as Israel launches a ground offensive now into southern Lebanon after weeks of deadly airstrikes

targeting Hezbollah militants. And we will preview what could be the final debate of the 2024 presidential race with the running mates Tim Walz, J.D. Vance set to square off tonight in New York. With us this morning, the host of Way Too Early, White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kaye, and President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass. He's the author of the weekly newsletter, Home and Away, available on Substack. Good morning, everybody. Great group with a lot to talk about. We're going to get to it in just a moment, Jonathan Lemire. But Pete Rose died yesterday. The all-time hit king in Major League Baseball, of course,

kept out of the Hall of Fame because of the betting scandal banned from baseball 35 years ago, died yesterday. Yeah, such a polarizing figure, but his talent was unassailable. I mean, Pete Rose, Charlie Hustle, as he was known, member of three World Series championship teams, two in the Big Red Machines, the Cincinnati Reds, the 1970s, and he got a third a few years later with the Philadelphia Phillies. The all-time hits king, a record that I don't see being broken, at least not anytime soon, well over 4,000 hits for Rose. But then as manager of the Reds, later had to admit, after denying it for decades, that he indeed was betting, betting on baseball, even betting on his own team. Never against his own team. Never.

It was his one cat. To be clear, never. The man was competitive. And that, of course, was sort of the cardinal rule in baseball. And he's been held out of the Hall of Fame, something that he was deeply bitter about. But his legacy lives on. And yesterday, passed away at the age of 83. We're going to have that conversation later in the hour with Mike Barnicle about whether

Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, an age-old debate. We'll get to that. But let's begin this hour with new developments out of the Middle East, where the Israeli military has started now a ground offensive in Lebanon. Overnight, officials announced troops crossed the border for a targeted operation, they're calling it, posting this video on social media. The IDF notified the U.S. about its plan and says the goal is to push Hezbollah farther away from the border. This comes just days after Israel killed the terrorist group's leader, Hassan Nasrallah. Let's go right to NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley, live from Beirut. Matt, what's the latest there?

Yeah, Willie, well, a quick answer is that we don't really know. This is a very unusual moment because the Israelis have said, as you just mentioned in your introduction, that they have launched a ground incursion into southern Lebanon. Hezbollah, we just got this in the last couple of minutes, has denied that. They said that this is a Zionist lie and that actually there has been no confrontation between Hezbollah and Israeli troops. But that actually is consistent with what the Israelis are saying. They've said that they've had no actual exchange of fire between Hezbollah forces and Israeli ground forces in southern Lebanon. So it's kind of becoming a if a tree falls in the forest sort of situation. The fact

is, is that the Israelis have said that they've crossed over. They haven't engaged with Hezbollah. They've said that they've been crossing over. We got this news yesterday. For the past several weeks, this has been a regular occurrence. So it is very unclear what about last night and what about this Israeli incursion, which has been formally announced, is different from what we've seen over the past several weeks, even though we didn't know that the Israelis were crossing over with some regularity. Now it looks as though they're making this public. They said yesterday they've been doing this regularly. It's unclear what they were doing last night and whether this

is a real appreciative difference from what we've been seeing over the past several days and weeks. But the fact is, Israel is continuing to do what it's been doing for the past several weeks, which is punishing Hezbollah with airstrikes. That is still by far the most effective Israeli response that we've been seeing so far over the past several weeks, ever since they widened their attacks against Hezbollah. Now, we don't know how far Israeli ground forces moved into Lebanon. We don't know if they're still there. And we've heard from, and this is all quoting Reuters, they said, quoting an Israeli security official, an Israeli security official told Reuters that they are within walking distance of the Lebanese border, and they haven't exceeded that distance so far. So again, a very unusual moment where Hezbollah is saying that this is all a lie,

or the Israelis have said that they have been moving into southern Lebanon, but there's nothing about that to make it sound as though it's any different from what we've been hearing over the past several days and weeks. So we're at a critical impasse here. Is this a real paradigm shift in the conflict that we've been seeing over the past year? Is this an appreciable increase in the offensive that we've been seeing over the past two weeks that is mostly almost entirely focused on air to ground attacks by the Israelis that have decapitated Hezbollah and in several unusual episodes, exploded pagers

and walkie talkies that have maimed and killed a lot of the Hezbollah commandos. Only the next couple hours and days will tell. Willie. Yes, a new phase here. NBC's Matt Bradley live from Beirut in Lebanon. Matt, thanks so much. So, Richard Haass, this does come at the end of a couple of extraordinary weeks of Israel on the offensive against Hezbollah, the pagers, the walkie-talkies, the airstrike that killed Nasrallah, who had been a target of theirs for many decades, and now apparently a ground incursion. What does this signal to you? Look, what the Israelis want to do is be able to move 60, 70,000 of their citizens back to their homes in northern Israel. There's only two ways to do it. Either you push Hezbollah far, far back, 20, 30 miles back beyond the range of a lot of their systems, or you persuade Hezbollah that wherever they are to

attack Israel is a dangerous undertaking. The latter makes more sense because Israel doesn't want to occupy Lebanon again. Been there, done that. If you leave, they can always bring forces back. So the real question is whether you can change the calculus of Hezbollah directly or conceivably their masters or their partners in Tehran. And I think that's what the Israelis are trying to do, to essentially deter them from using the systems they have, because you can't eliminate all their systems.

You can't prevent 100 percent resupply. So I think what this is about is changing the calculus of Hezbollah and possibly setting up some type of a new informal modus vivendi. Let's not forget that Hezbollah has been attacking civilians in northern Israel since October the 8th after the attacks of October 7th. So what is your sense of what these last couple of weeks have done, not just as a practical question, but to the psyche of Hezbollah? If Israel has completely decapitated its leadership, shown that it can strike them in their hip pockets, what does that mean? I think, well, just what you suggested. It's obviously put them back on their heels. The idea that Hezbollah and Israel had reached some type of an understanding,

unpeaceful coexistence, if you will. I think that's been shattered. The Israelis essentially said, we're not going to play that game anymore. So they have really, really hurt Hezbollah, weakened it dramatically, eliminated it. No, that's not possible. I think it's also sent a big message to Tehran that the idea that your proxies, you can operate through them. And again, there's certain ceilings of what Israel's willing to do. It's shattered that assumption. Also, I think it's actually restrained Iran. I think it sent the message to them that you're not safe. Your leadership isn't necessarily safe and all that. So I think what the Israelis are trying to do is change the rules of the road in the Middle East. It doesn't

eliminate the threats they face from the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, much less from Iran. But I think it's to change the calculus and give them a little bit more space. And they may have succeeded at that for a while. So over the last couple of days, Kat, U.S. officials telling me certainly no tears shed for Nasrallah, who had a lot of blood on his hands, including American blood. But there are concerns about a wider war, questions, though, about what Tehran may or may not do in response. But we heard from President Biden yesterday, even as U.S. officials sort of grateful that Hezbollah has been weakened, President very clear that he was tying to look, we need a ceasefire now. He does not want this to spiral any further than it already has. Hours later, Israel went into Lebanon, it appears. So this is another moment where

Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli government have taken the U.S. advice and ignored it. So speak to us a little bit about the limits of American power and also what could come next in this conflict. Ever since October the 7th, I've been hearing from people in the Middle East that time and again they have been struck by the fact that the United States is not omnipotent in the way that it used to be in that region, that it can push for certain things, but those things don't necessarily materialize. It has continuously pushed for a ceasefire around Gaza. It hasn't happened. It can push Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu not to go into Lebanon. But it looks like overnight that is exactly what the Israelis have done, albeit in a limited way. I think the

kind of bigger picture, and it gets to what Richard is saying, is that how much is enough for Israel? How much does Israel feel it needs to do in Lebanon? We know that there are tunnels, there are facilities on that southern Lebanese border with Israel. Israel has now spent a year trying to eliminate tunnel networks in Gaza. It hasn't succeeded in doing so. What does it need to do in southern Lebanon for its people to feel safe that they can live along that border? And of course, as this fighting continues, it may have won Israel a little bit more maneuvering room kind of in the Middle East more generally at the moment. But it's not the political solution, which I think the administration

here would say certainly is what eventually is needed for not just the Israelis, but the Lebanese and the Palestinians to feel safe. And really, it also depends on the definition of limited, which Israel says they're going to do. They did this. They used that word quite a bit in Gaza as well and then proceeded to change that definition as they went forward. Yeah. I mean, Richard, you touched on this a minute ago, but if you are sitting in Iran, the leadership, you're watching this play out right now, watching what Israel has done in Gaza, what is now doing in Lebanon. I wonder what you're thinking strategically. There's been this concern that there would be direct war between Israel and Iran, that the United States

would be drawn into it. Prime Minister Netanyahu did say, addressing the Iranian people yesterday, when Iran is finally free and that moment will come a lot sooner than people think, suggesting you tell me. But if you're Iran, what are you thinking right now? Iran has to be careful. If you remember, Willie, last April, Israel demonstrated its ability to penetrate Iranian airspace and pretty much do what it wanted to do. So the Iranians have to be really careful about not giving Israel a pretext or an opening to attack it directly. Israel could go after their energy infrastructure, could go after aspects of their nuclear program. It could do things to really weaken the regime, which is what the prime minister, what Mr. Netanyahu is getting at. The Iranian leadership has to be careful here, not to take things beyond a certain point. So I think this poses a real dilemma to the people in

Iran. They don't like leaving their buddies in Hezbollah, the rest in the lurch. Iran is supposed to be this force, you know, that backs all of its proxies. On the other hand, if they get involved directly, I think there are many in Israel who are ready to bring the war to Iran. And the Iranians know that's not a war they can win directly. Now, they could do terrorism and sabotage all over the world. You know, the war won't be necessarily a traditional battlefield war. But my guess is they are calculating very carefully, particularly the new president of Iran. Again, not clear how much authority he has here, but they are calculating because escalation, I would say, does not serve Iranian interests right now. But so their dilemma is how do they back their proxies

without getting pulled into a war directly that they can't prevail over against Israel. So right now, everybody is calculating. But Katie makes a really good point, which is, what is the Israeli definition of success here? They can hurt Hezbollah. They can maybe push them back temporarily. But what are they trying to accomplish here? And again, I don't think it's physically removing the threat. I think they are trying to change the thinking in Tehran, in Hezbollah, so people suddenly act with greater restraint towards Israel. I think that's what this is about. Part of it's psychological, fascinating and dangerous dynamics at play here. President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass. Richard, thanks as always. Appreciate it. This morning, tens of thousands of dock workers are on strike at major ports

from Maine to Texas. It comes after the industry's largest union failed to reach an agreement with the United States Maritime Alliance, the group that represents port management. CNBC is reporting preparations for a strike have been underway in 14 American cities following a protracted battle over wage increases and the use of automation. Now, billions of dollars in trade has been stranded as the International Longshoremen's Association launches its first strike since 1977. Let's bring in the anchor of CNBC's Worldwide Exchange, Frank Holland. Frank, what more do we know about this? Hey, good morning, Willie. Well, we know the two sides, as you mentioned, the Longshoremen's Union, the ILA and the port

operators known as USMX. They traded counter offers over pay yesterday. Also, the White House has taken additional steps to facilitate, again, not mediate, but just facilitate these talks. Also maintaining they would not use the Taft-Hartley Act to keep the ports open and force continued negotiations. Also new this morning on social media, there's a video from the ILA president making what I'm going to call a fiery speech to members about these contentious negotiations with port operators. He went on to say, in part, we're going to keep this thing going every day. We're going to be in and out. We're going to be on the news. And he goes on to tell the members there's some profanity in there, but saying that they're going to win this thing. He tells them to trust them and saying

that the port operators can't last very long. USMX, the port operators, they're also out with a statement yesterday kind of spelling out some of the details of the negotiations. They say that they offered nearly a 50 percent pay increase in addition to tripling employer contributions to retirement plans and also strengthening health care. And also, they said they were offered to retain the current language around automation and semi-automation, really a key issue when it comes to these negotiations. All right. CNBC's Frank Holland. Frank, so much appreciated. You'll be keeping close tabs on this. We'll check back in with you.

So, Jonathan Lemire, this is the White House, obviously, is invested in this and monitoring it closely. Don't want this to go on too long. As I said, these ports have been prepared for this, especially with the busy holiday shopping season and all the supply chain questions that come in. But it does add another layer to this presidential race. Yet another issue. It certainly does. As Frank said, the White House at this point,

not directly involved. They're facilitating. They're not intervening. This, of course, President Biden has deemed himself the most pro-labor president in history. So they're watching this carefully. And there are concerns. I was told yesterday that most analysts in the White House and some outside economists believe that if this lasts a few days, no real impact. But if it stretches beyond a week or more, there will be a ripple effect that could impact the national economy just at a moment when inflation has started to cool, when we had a Federal Reserve rate cut, when certainly people are feeling good about the economy right now. And this could create a wave of bad headlines, not just for this current administration, but of course, for Vice President Harris. And this would become undoubtedly, if not resolved the next few days,

a major campaign issue as well. Yeah, a major strike from coast to coast. We'll keep a close eye on it. Meanwhile, the death toll this morning from Helene continues to rise across six states after that devastating storm ripped through the southeast. This morning, at least 125 people are dead in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. A third of those deaths reported in North Carolina, where at least 40 people died as a result of catastrophic flooding, leaving entire communities, some of them swept away, others under several feet of water, hundreds more people still missing. Millions of customers also remaining in the dark

across those states. Rescue operations underway as families desperately wait to hear back from missing loved ones. Tomorrow, President Biden will take part in an aerial tour of Asheville, North Carolina, to survey the mind bending damage that you see in these pictures. Joining us now from Irwin, Tennessee, NBC News correspondent Priscilla Thompson. Priscilla, good morning. So what's the latest on the recovery efforts there, but also across the border in North Carolina? Yeah, well, as we enter day four of recovery here, there are 100 responders out searching through rubble, trying to find any signs of life that they can. As they say, the mission here is shifting from rescue to recovery, and the mission is intensifying to find those who are missing. The floodwaters in Tennessee have receded,

but the pain is still flowing for some families. They are just desperate to find out where she is, where she's been found. They just want news. Rosa Andrade and Monica Hernandez-Corona are among the 150 people still unaccounted for in Tennessee. Authorities say more than 100 responders are scouring debris as efforts shifted from rescues to recovery. They confirm only three storm-related deaths in the state so far.

They used everything they had to save life that day. Some were saved. We're still searching for some. We all have hopes that we will find some more alive. Relatives say Rosa and Monica were working at Impact Plastics Factory when the water began to rise, and that they got into the back of a semi-truck trying to escape. A man who says he was also on that truck posted this video online showing water rushing by as cars and yellow pipes floated away. Their family members were in the back of an 18-wheeler holding on to pipes calling 911 for help and that help didn't come.

In a statement, Impact Plastics says when the parking lot and service road began to flood, employees were dismissed, but that some remained. Boarding a neighboring company's truck as the flooding intensified. That truck tipped over, Impact Plastics says. Five people were rescued by helicopter, but six others were never found. We are devastated by the tragic loss of great employees, the company wrote. Loss made all the more painful by the wait for answers. They are really grieving and all that they really want is closure. They just want closure for their families.

And some of those families may now have those answers as we are learning that the death toll here has ticked up to six. And at this point, there are 100 people missing, according to the state. And we are seeing similar stories play out across this area, including in North Carolina, where there are many, many people still missing. And folks are working on the connectivity issues to try to get in touch with people. They're also trying to get those critical supplies like water and gas and all of those things as this recovery effort continues. Willie? Yeah, FEMA's there putting up star links so people can at least connect and tell their loved ones they're okay or find help. But my gosh, the devastation, the scope of it from where you are in Tennessee to North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, of course, is just staggering. NBC News correspondent Priscilla Thompson in Tennessee for us this morning. Priscilla, thanks so much. I mentioned President Biden

headed to North Carolina. Meanwhile, former President Donald Trump visited Georgia yesterday where he falsely claimed several times the White House is ignoring the storm. It is not, of course, and ignoring requests from the state's Republican governor, Brian Kemp. The governor is doing a very good job. He's having a hard time getting the president on the phone. I guess they're not they're not being responsive. The federal government is not being responsive, but they're having a very hard time getting the getting the president on the phone. He won't get on. And of course, the vice president, she's out someplace campaigning, looking for money. Governor needs to. He's been trying to get them and I'm sure they're going to come through.

But he's been calling. The president hasn't been able to get him. That's another lie. Earlier in the day, Governor Kemp told reporters he did speak with President Biden. The president offered his assistance. The president just called me yesterday afternoon. I missed him and called him right back. And he just said, hey, what do you need? And I told him, you know, we got what we need. We'll work through the federal process. He offered that if there's other things we need, just to call him directly, which I appreciate that. So President Biden, of course, spoke to the governor of Georgia as the governor just underlined there. Later in the day, President Biden was asked about Trump's claims and got fiery as he took questions from reporters in the Oval Office.

He's lying. Let me get this straight. He's lying. And the governor told him he was lying. The governor told me he was lying. I've spoken to the governor. I've spent time with him and he told me he's lying. I don't know why he does this. And the reason I get so angry about it, I don't care about what he says about me. I care what he what he communicates to the people that are in need. It implies that we're not doing everything possible. We are. We are. You know, Jonathan, this is a particularly disgusting lie when the people there need help suggesting that the White House and FEMA, because Democrats don't want Donald Trump to win. Of course, it all comes back to him or turning their back on him. He's also suggested that the White House and this federal government is ignoring

MAGA supporters in red counties. That's, of course, not true. Just not even in this moment of destruction and devastation and people needing clarity and help so badly can't even put his ego and his cheap insults aside in this moment. Refuses to do it. Rooting against the country is one of the themes from Donald Trump. And this is a moment where this is a particularly dangerous slide, because if he's out there saying, well, hey, the federal government's ignoring those who are impacted by the storm, that may discourage those impacted by the storm from even seeking help. And state and federal officials are saying, look, we're here. Reach out to us.

We're trying to reach you. We're trying to assist you in this time of need. But Donald Trump only thinking about himself. You know, he, of course, was in Georgia yesterday, potentially a strain on resources there. But he wanted to go to have the political photo op. Vice President Harris says she will go in the days ahead, but she wants to make sure that she's not an unnecessary distraction from recovery efforts, Katty. And this is also, in terms of Trump, Charlie Sykes said this a little earlier this morning, it's not just like Trump is these days shading the truth or exaggerating. He's just flat out lying. These are complete fabrications,

utter falsehoods. And this one in particular strikes me as really dangerous. Yeah, I mean, it's not unusual for storms to bring out political tensions. Ask, you know, Charlie Crist or Chris Christie. They've both been in positions where they had a president from the opposite party and they suffered retribution from their own party for embracing those that president when they came to give help. This is completely the opposite of that. This is Donald Trump who is running for the presidency, saying things that are not true. I mean, and also it's odd because it's demonstrably not true. I mean, Brian Kemp has said that he's spoken to the president. The president has said that he's spoken to Brian Kemp. Brian Kemp, the Republicans have said, yes, the federal aid is on its way. FEMA is doing what he can. And you wonder why Donald Trump is in this position where he is saying things that are so clearly provable not to be true in a way that doesn't necessarily help his campaign.

If this is just about again and again and again angering his base enough that he makes sure they turn out and vote, is he worried that there may be some drop off in voting, that his ground game is not good enough and that this is the way he gets people to the polls? It's hard to see what the strategy is. But as you say, this is dangerous because people's lives are at stake in Georgia, in North Carolina at the moment, and they need all the help they can get and they need to know that the help is coming. That's also very important for them. Just absolutely toxic. And by the way, he knows he can get away with it because he exists in a media ecosystem, media ecosystem where it will be echoed uncritically. Again, President Biden, of course, talked to Republican Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia and the governors across the region about the destruction from this storm to get people the help they need, whether they're Democrat or Republican. Still ahead on Morning Joe, a Republican appointed judge in Fulton County strikes down Georgia's six week abortion ban. We'll take a look at that new

ruling and its political implications. Plus, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, Republican Senator J.D. Vance, the running mates face off tonight for the first time. We'll discuss what we can expect to hear at that vice presidential debate. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. A judge in Fulton County, Georgia, struck down the state's strict six week abortion ban yesterday. That ruling now allows the procedure to resume and makes it legal in Georgia up to 22 weeks of pregnancy. The ban originally signed into law by Republican Governor Brian Kemp back in 2019. The Superior Court judge explained in his ruling that liberty in Georgia includes the power for a woman to control her own body. But he added the power is not unlimited, stating, quote, when a fetus growing inside a woman reaches viability, when society can assume care and responsibility for that separate life, then and only then may

society intervene. Joining us now, former litigator and MSNBC legal correspondent, Lisa Rubin. Lisa, good morning. Great to see you. A lot of people had been watching this case very, very closely to see where it would land. What was the decision ultimately by the judge here? Decision ultimately by the judge is that the prohibition on abortion beyond that six week mark when a fetal heartbeat can be detected is no longer good law. And he says that that's rooted in Georgia's own constitution, that there's a recognition of a right to liberty, that liberty includes a liberty of privacy, and that Georgia's own law recognizes that that liberty of privacy is broader

than the federal constitutional right. And on that basis, he said, as you just noted, that although the state has a compelling interest in promoting fetal life, where you're balancing that against a woman's liberty of privacy to control her own body, the state's interest is not so compelling as to overcome the woman's right to control her body body. The state's interest is not so compelling as to overcome the woman's right to control her body until the fetus is viable outside that body. So this is that debate we've heard a lot since Dobbs, which is the heartbeat six weeks versus viability at, say, 22 weeks or whenever you set that standard. So as of now, women in Georgia up to 22 weeks because of this ruling yesterday can get an abortion. But I assume this will be appealed again, perhaps all the way up to the Supreme Court.

Yeah. And I think there are some people who will be afraid to perform abortion in the intervening time period because this isn't just a ban on abortion, Willie. This is a criminal prohibition on abortion. And as Judge McBurney, who is the Fulton County Superior Court judge who issued this decision, notes the woman herself could be prosecuted because of the way that the statute is worded. That's a particularly pernicious place to be. And he recognizes that all throughout his decision. This is I want to be really clear with you and our viewers. This is almost a radical decision in its recognition of the right of women to control their body.

And more importantly, to sort of prevent against a sort of involuntary servitude or forced labor. There's a recognition here that women are not, as he says, collectively owned community property, that they cannot be forced to carry a fetus before viability any more than you or I could be forced to give up a kidney. That's a fairly radical conception of the right to abortion and made a lot of women I know think, oh my God, this is the end of judicial gaslighting. There is someone here who sees us. At the end of the idea of women being collective property, being considered radical is extraordinary. Lisa, so do we think that this ruling could

serve as a template for other states that have had restrictive abortion bans put in place? Well, you know, I think it depends on what that state's law is constitutionally, right? Because each state is interpreting its own constitution. Some of the other states that have recognized a fundamental right to abortion in their state's constitution don't do so from a liberty perspective. They do so, for example, on equal protection grounds. Here, though, Judge McBurney is saying Georgia has a long history of recognizing a broad right to privacy, and that's why he roots it there. On the other hand, I think there are some pieces

of this opinion that could be very helpful for other judges to latch onto. In particular, he really disavows textualism and originalism. Those are the constitutional interpretive methods of the day. And he says the problem with looking for the original public meaning of constitutional text is that it necessarily excludes half the population, women who had very limited rights in the 18, I'm sorry, in the 1860s, for example, when some of these provisions were put into place, and black women who had no rights at all. And that's explicit in this opinion. Katty? So, Lisa, women in Georgia have a reprieve for the moment,

and women, I suppose, in other states where there to be similar lawsuits might have similar reprieves for the moment until those reprieves themselves are challenged by higher courts. Presumably the only way that this gets completely resolved and that there is a standard that allows women to have access to abortion up to 22 weeks of viability would be for some decision to be made by Congress or a reversal at the Supreme Court. I think, Katie, that's true, although theoretically the final word here should really be Georgia's Supreme Court interpreting its own constitution.

What makes this decision really important is that, again, if folks like former President Trump are saying abortion is left up to states, this is a state court judge interpreting his own constitution. Yes, it will likely be appealed all the way up to Georgia's Supreme Court. But the text here that matters is Georgia's constitution, not the federal Constitution. And while Congress could certainly make abortion legal all across the nation for Georgia's women right now, what really matters is their Constitution. Judge McBurney writing in this opinion, a mere six weeks is a point at which many, if not most women, are completely unaware or at best unsure if they are pregnant. He believes that's too soon, putting it at 22 for now, 22 weeks. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin. Lisa, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, a doubleheader on the last day of Major League Baseball's season decides the final two NL playoff spots. We'll have the highlights and a preview of a big day in baseball. Plus, a look back at the life of baseball's controversial hit king, Pete Rose, who died yesterday, as we mentioned, at the age of 83. Mike Barnicle joins us. The Morning Joke comes right back. Major League Baseball's all-time hit king and one of the game's most popular polarizing figures, Pete Rose, has died. NBC's Kurt Gregory has more on Rose's life and career. Peter Edward Rose was born on April 14th, 1941 in Cincinnati, Ohio, the same city he'd later take

by storm as Charlie Hustle. The son of a former boxer and semi-pro football player, Rose signed with his hometown Reds out of high school in 1963. As a member of the juggernaut known as the Big Red Machine, Rose won back-to-back titles with Cincinnati in 1975 and 1976. A lifetime.303 hitter, he belted 200 hits, a Major League record 10 times. 2-1 pitch from Schaus in the left center. There it is! And on September 11th, 1985, Pete Rose broke Ty Cobb's all-time hits record of 4,191. He would finish his career with 4,256. Along with hits, Rose owns more major league records than any other player in history, including at-bats, singles, and games played. After retiring in 1986, Rose went on to manage the Reds, but his days in the majors were numbered.

In August of 1989, Commissioner Bart Giamatti handed Pete Rose a lifetime ban from baseball after an investigation revealed his betting on games while managing the Reds. Then in 1990, less than a year after the ban, Rose was sentenced to five months in a federal prison for tax evasion. Still denying the betting charges, Rose was denied reinstatement in 1992 and 1997. There are some things that are so wrong that we don't lightly forgive them. And this is a very wrong thing. In his 2004 autobiography, My Prison Without Bars, Rose would finally admit to gambling on baseball while managing the Reds, but said it was never against his own team. Did you bet on baseball?

Yes, I did. And that was my mistake. Contrition and admission fell short again for Rose in 2015, when Commissioner Rob Manfred denied his appeal, citing Rose's lack of change and acceptance of wrongdoing. I want baseball and Pete Rose to be friends. That's all I want. So I can say I'm not an outsider looking in. In 2016, a day many thought would never come. Election to the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame and the retiring of Rose's number 14. Pushing limits on the field made him a Hall of Famer. Pushing them off the field kept him out. NBC's Kurt Gregory reporting there. Let's bring into

the conversation MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle. Mike, great to see you. There's been so much debate over, gosh, 35 years now about whether Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, whether he should not be in the Hall of Fame, how we should think about his career because of the admission of gambling, though he says he never bet against his own team. Where are you on the question of Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame? Well, you know, Willie, I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame, but I think everything that he did, both positive and negative, ought to be put on the plaque. I mean, there are a few other people in the Hall of Fame, a few other players who are not models of civilization or civility. Just recognize who Pete Burrow is. He played 25 years, 25 years in the major leagues. He averaged 194 hits per season. He was a bad guy off the field.

Let's get that on the record. But he was a spectacular guy off the field let's get that on the record but he was a spectacular player a spectacular player and yeah put him in the hall of fame but put it on the plaque so mike for people who sort of only know the gambling part of pete rose you started to touch on it can you speak to what kind of a ball player he was the numbers speak for themselves 4200 some hits which as john said earlier is a record that probably it's hard to imagine that being eclipsed. What kind of player was Pete Rose? He was an incredible player, the kind of player you'd want on your team, the kind of player who played hard every out, every inning, every game, every year.

I first met Pete Rose on October 22nd, early in the afternoon of October 22nd, 1975. It was the afternoon after the night before, which was game six of the 1975 World Series, where Carlton Fisk stood in the batter's box, Raleigh Eastwick for the Cincinnati Reds on the mound, swung the ball sword in the air. Mike Weissman, our former guy who worked here, directed that game. They had a camera set down low, Fisk waving the ball fair. The ball was fair. Red Sox won game six. The next afternoon, October 22nd, I approached Pete Rose.

It was about 2.30 in the afternoon. He was standing on the lawn of Fenway Park alongside the visitor's dugout. And I approached him with some trepidation because of his attitude, seeming attitude towards everything and everybody snarling. He was a snarling kind of a guy. And I asked him some stupid question. I was a kid working for the Boston Globe then. And I asked him some stupid question like, you know, geez, how do you get over losing a game like that last night and show up to play today? And he looked at me, said, what? And I repeated the question. He said, playing last night in that game was one of the honors of my life.

That was the greatest game I've ever participated in. And that was Pete Rose, too. And Pete Rose was also a guy who probably gambled on the game he was playing that night. We don't know. But he admitted to gambling to Bud Selig in the mid-1990s. If he had found contrition earlier, maybe we wouldn't be talking about whether he should be or not be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. And Willie, that's the dichotomy of Pete Rose, that he gambled on the game, but he also had such reverence for it. He loved playing baseball. And I'm with Mike. I think he should be in the Hall of Fame. What happened? The suspension. Put it on the plaque. It should be marked.

No question. But I think the other image of Rose is that headfirst slide that just epitomizes the grit and gave 110% all the time, including in an All-Star game where he barreled over the catcher. Something that would never happen today. Yeah, we should point out this entire segment's been an elaborate ruse for you guys to get the Carlton Fisk home run into the show. Mike, well done. And it worked.

Mike, that's what we have here. Let's talk a little playoff baseball. Major League playoffs set now after that make-up. What a game! Doubleheader in Atlanta between the Braves and the Mets. Here it is, Mike, extending the regular season by one day with a Monday finish. And Lindor gets under one to center field. Harris going back back near the wall and it's out of here. Linsanity again. Francisco Lindor flips the script with a

two-run homer and the Mets go in front eight to seven. Wow. Francisco Lindor of the Mets, a two-run home run in the ninth inning, just capping a great, wild back-and-forth game, especially over the final two innings, setting the Mets to the postseason with an 8-7 victory. So now they're in, but there's a second game. The Braves have to win to get into the playoffs, so their season's over. They did it. They earned a wildcard berth with a 3-0 win over the Mets in Game 2, eliminating the Diamondbacks from playoff contention. The Mets and Braves each now play in a best-of-three National League wildcard series starting today. No rest for the weary. The Mets traveling back to Milwaukee now for Game 1 against those NL Central champion Brewers, while the Padres host the Braves in San Diego. In the American

League today, the AL West champion Houston Astros opened the Padres host the Braves in San Diego. In the American League today, the AL West champion Houston Astros opened the postseason against the Tigers. Baltimore Orioles host the Kansas City Royals. So, Mike, go back to that game. Lindor, boy, Mike, we were just saying, if not for Otani, Lindor is your National League MVP. What a season he had and what a way to cap it yesterday. Hands down, he'd be the MVP. Naturally, Otani is a galactic figure. He's so great. But Francisco Lindor, he shows up when he has to show up. He was the captain of the team yesterday. He was incredible. That was one of the most exciting ball games I've watched in a long, long time. I just couldn't get over the exhaustion factor in that game, the back and forth and the Mets coming back and then the Braves coming back and the Mets

finally winning it. There's nothing quite like playoff baseball, Willie, and it separates itself from all the other sports in what you just referenced. They play again today. Baseball is an everyday delight. Yeah, and that was the game of the year on the final day of the regular season. And it looked like the Mets were about to out-Mets themselves, having lately blowing it. And you thought that this improbable season was going to come to a crashing, heartbreaking defeat, but they did win. And then, you know, obviously Willie didn't have much to play for in that second game.

I'm sure they would have loved to have sent their rival Braves home, but they rested a lot of regulars. Atlanta got the win they needed. And then we turn around and play today. And I know Mark DeRosa of MLB Network is coming on later to preview the playoffs. It is, even when my team's not in it, I know yours is. We don't need to talk about it. It's the best time of the year.

Baseball playoffs are the best. No question about it. And it's a lot more fun in New York, actually, when both teams are in the playoffs and have the Yankees and the Mets. Mike, before we let you go, today is the 100th birthday of President Jimmy Carter. He's been in hospice care for some time now. He turns 100 years old, says he plans to vote. He wants to have his voice heard in this election. 100 years old. Mike, what are your thoughts today? You know, no matter what you think about Jimmy Carter politically, no matter what you thought about his presidency,

he has been a model citizen and a model for all former presidents once they leave office. Every day, every day has been a portrait in character, a portrait in patriotism, and a portrait of a man, despite his age, even in the 90s and even at 100, still doing well by the United States of America, Jimmy Carter. His work with Habitat Humanity, highlighted later in this show by Garth Brooks and Tricia Yearwood, are going to join us to talk about what they're doing there as well. And by the way, the White House this morning is putting out a 100, 1-0-0 on the way, the White House this morning is putting out a 100 100 on the lawn of the White House with the message. Happy birthday, President Carter. Mike Barnacle covering a lot of ground force this morning. Mike, we'll see you soon. Thank you. Still ahead, Steve Ratner

live in our studio over at the Southwest Wall. He's got the charts breaking down the fundraising numbers between Vice President Harris and Donald Trump and tell us who's leading that race by a wide margin. Plus, Democratic National Committee Chair Jamie Harrison will be our guest out of tonight's debate between the vice presidential candidates. Morning Joe, coming right back. Live picture of the sun coming up over the White House at 6.53 in the morning. With the election now just five weeks away, it's getting close. We're taking a look this morning at the money race.

Let's bring in former Treasury official, Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner. Steve, good morning. So one campaign, it looks like from the charts behind you, is far ahead at this moment in fundraising. Well, first of all, Willie, I've been through a lot of political cycles, raised a lot of money, including for Vice President Harris. And I've never seen anything quite like this, as I will take you through. So, yeah, let's start with the money race through the end of August. And we'll look at the blue, of course, of the Democrats, the red, the Republicans. And we've got a bunch of pieces here. This is the so-called hard money that the candidates raise. This is money raised by the party committees, Democratic National Committee, Republican National

Committee. And you can see substantial out raising there. And I would say also, it's important to note, 42 percent of the donors to the Biden-Harris campaign were small donors under $200 versus 32 percent for President Trump. And that's actually a reversal of the past when Trump had more small donors than the Democrats did. But as you'll see again in a minute, the small donors are out in force. Important number to note is cash on hand because that's what they got left to spend. And you can see again, the Democrats have a lead here in terms of cash on hand. One question you might ask is how does this compare to other cycles? And you can see here the Biden-Harris campaign is on track to pass the last two cycles. These are inflation adjusted numbers, so that makes them more significant if they hit a record,

which it looks like they will. But here's what's exceptional. Trump is way short of where he was last time, only raised about half as much money at this point as he had in 2020 and a bit more than he had back in 2016. And obviously, Steve, as we move to your second chart, everything changed when President Biden stepped aside and made way for Vice President Harris, just sort of energizing the base and sending donations through the roof. This is the extraordinary thing, Willie, the most extraordinary thing I think almost any of us who've been involved in this for a while have seen. You can see here through the spring, Biden and Trump were kind of piddling along, to coin a phrase, raising a decent amount of money. But here's what happened. The president dropped out on July 21st. And in the month of July,

so only with 10 days left in the month, $204 million raised by that then Harris campaign. And that carried over into August, $190 million versus $45, $48 million down here. So we'll see what September brings us when those numbers come out. But an extraordinary outpouring of money raising. And here's the other thing that's exceptional. During his six months or so running, President Biden had two million unique donors, and that's a very reasonable number. Vice President Harris passed that number in nine days. She passed the two million that Biden had raised throughout his campaign. It is now up to about four million. And so if this indicates has any relevance to popular support, this is an extraordinary

outpouring of support. Yeah. Kamala Harris has changed this race in many ways, but especially as you look at that graph in the fundraising, your third chart now, the Senate, the House, super PAC fundraising. How does that look right now? Yeah. So just to check in on all that, a fairly similar pattern without the drama of the Kamala Harris machine, so to speak. But in the Senate, Democrats out-raising Republicans and have more cash on hand. Again, a good position for them to be in. And in the House, a similar pattern, more money raised, more cash on hand. So Democrats pretty well positioned to go into this. But then lastly, what I've talked about so far is what we call hard money, what we call

party committee money. The third bucket of money, which is a huge bucket of money, are the famous super PACs that we talk a lot about. And here the Democrats, maybe not surprisingly, are not doing quite as well. So far, and we only have expenditure numbers to this. We don't have money raised numbers. Super PACs associated with Republicans have spent over a billion dollars, some of it advocating for Republicans, some of it

advocating against Democrats. Democrats have spent seven hundred eighty five million dollars. So not a huge difference, but a tilt to the Republicans. But, you know, when you add all these numbers up, it comes to billions and billions of dollars. And I heard Katty say the other day that a U.K. election cost something like 50 million pounds. This is an extraordinary use of resources. And when you look at what's going on in North Carolina and places, just think about what this several billion dollars could have done if it had been implied there instead of the crazy political campaigns that we run. It is an obscene amount of money. Steve, before I let you go, after the charts there, just a general question about the state of the economy, because there's been so much from Donald Trump and others thrown in

about the country going to hell and all that. But when you look at revised GDP numbers, when you look at low unemployment, when you look at markets soaring, when you look at the Fed lowering rates, what is your snapshot of how this economy is doing? Well, that's exactly right. It looks like, amazingly, the Federal Reserve has engineered a soft landing, gotten inflation down almost exactly to its 2% target without treating a recession. We continue to add jobs.

The GDP continues to expand. There is pressure on consumers at the lower end. No question about that from inflation and from having spent the COVID. The GDP continues to expand. There is pressure on consumers at the lower end. No question about that from from inflation and from having spent the covid payments that they got. But all in all, this is an economy that just continues to march along at a very reasonable, not extraordinary, but very reasonable growth rate. And that, of course, is also good news for the vice president, which, as you point out, the election just about a month away. Five weeks from today. Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner. Steve, thanks so much as always. We appreciate it.