Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/13/22

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

Alex Jones must pay $965 million in damages to families of 8 Sandy Hook victims

Tonight, I come to you with a spring in my step, a song in my heart, emotionally and spiritually refreshed, because you know how, as humans, we have to accept the fact that sometimes bad things happen to good people? Well, by the grace of God, sometimes bad things happen to Alex Jones. And that, that's a good thing. Oh, yes. Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones ordered to pay nearly a billion dollars to Sandy Hook families for lying about the 2012 massacre being a hoax. We will speak with one of the plaintiffs in the case, a Sandy Hook mother. And, you know, Mika, well, we were we were watching this live. Got the gut breaking news.

And as the verdicts were coming in, it was it was so painful. It was so looking at the parents. Yeah. You know, they're talking about, you know, basically a billion dollars in in civic awards. And you just couldn't you still look to the parents and you knew that it was they were just just they were glad justice was being done but uh they would much rather had never had to have gone through this hell that they have lived just it's just horrible and we've got so so we got george Conway here. We tried to get somebody else.

So they were not really good in this type of law. Who said who is George Conway? Go. Has he ever been on TV before? Yeah, we're glad to have you here. I'm going to ask you the big question really quickly. Yeah. And then we'll we'll get everything else. The question people are already asking is, is this is this guy going to have to pay? Is he going to feel this? Is he going to just declare bankruptcy and walk already asking is this is this guy gonna have to pay is is he gonna feel this is he gonna just declare bankruptcy and walk or is this gonna follow him the rest of his life i think he'll follow him the rest of his life i mean he can't possibly pay off the judgment on the other hand i don't know how he's i don't know that a bankruptcy court's gonna discharge it all

and they'll be they'll be you know they they there were there are enough people out there enough plaintiffs with judgments um that they'll be he'll be able to chase him around the rest of his life. It would be like O.J., where O.J. didn't know anything. He paid greens fees at a golf course, and nothing was in his name. I mean, it's going to be like that for him. And it's going to be very difficult for a man to function, and he deserves every minute of torture that that entails. Does it send a message? Yeah, I think it does. Do you think we. Does it send a message? Do you think?

Yeah, I think it does. I think we're starting to send a message to these people who lie with impunity. We've seen it. Dominion voting machine going after Mr. Pillow, going after Giuliani. I mean, do you do you think these at some point people are going to be held to account enough that they'll think twice before spreading lies about parents whose children are gunned down, about people who decide to volunteer in Georgia because

they love America? I think if we lived in a nation where we didn't have sociopaths and psychopaths, that would probably be true. But the problem is, you know, a guy like Alex Jones, I mean, he's not right in the head. I mean, he has no moral compunction about saying anything about anyone. Right. And he's like, you know, our friend in Mar-a-Lago, same thing. But they'll say they'll say anything about anyone at any time. Right. And so, you know, it's how do you how do you deter that? I wonder, though, Willie, when they have to

actually start paying out billion dollar judgments, when they're going to be chased for the rest of their lives, Donald Trump, it's it's catching up to Donald Trump. All the things we thought he was going to get away with, all the ways we thought he was above the law. He's not. He's paying for it right now. The truth's being told, shouted from the mountaintops. I just wonder, are we finally getting to a point where there are consequences to abhorrent actions, to abhorrent words? Well, you certainly hope so. But I think George is right. There are always going to be people on the fringes. There's always going to be a market for something like this. The other thing to say about this judgment yesterday is it's not just the money, it's the pain. And we've talked about this as we've talked about this case, the pain that

Alex Jones and Infowars have visited on these families that have unimaginable pain already, having their children slaughtered inside a first grade classroom, which is to say they received death threats. Many of them have had to move several times. They've been harassed. Their kids died in a school classroom. And after that, as they've been grieving, they've been chased around the country, harassed people, showing up at their houses. They've had shots fired outside their homes. It's been terrible for these families. He's made it much, much worse.

So hopefully, yeah, Joe, hopefully it sends the message you can't do stuff like this and get away with it. Yeah, we'll look at what impact this could have on other cases that we're watching when it comes to disinformation. Also ahead, new details in the Trump documents case. A Trump insider telling the FBI the former president ordered staff to move boxes of documents at Mar-a-Lago before agents searched the property. We'll have more on the new account. But it's not a laugh like, wow, that's really funny. It's more like a laugh like, boy, that's really funny. It's more like a laugh like, boy, that's really dumb. He's really dumb. And he's in

trouble. Yeah. Yes, that's all he has to say about that. That's it. Thank you. See ya. We'll have more on the new account detailing what happened at Trump's beach club with those documents before the FBI stepped in. And the final January 6th committee hearing

before the midterms is here today. We're going to tell you what to expect in those hearings. And we'll get it right. You know why? Because Jackie's here. I know. She's got everything, all things related to January 6th. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Thursday. It's only Thursday, guys, October 13th. And as you saw, we have attorney and contributing columnist for The Washington Post, George Conway, with us. Also with us, congressional investigations reporter for The Washington Post, Jackie Alimany. She's an MSNBC contributor. Jackie, do you have, like, the finale?

Like, the January 6th thing? And the host of Way Too Early White House. You're going to be a lightsaber fight. Let's go. It's all in here. It's all in there? I'm at a girl. Okay.

We'll get to that. She's not biting right now. We'll get out of the details in a second. But It's all in there. It's all in there? I'm at a girl. Okay. We'll get to that. She's not biting right now. We'll get out of the details in a second. But let's go right now to NBC News senior reporter Ben Collins. Ben, I thought about you yesterday as the verdict was coming in. I thought about you because you follow all of this. Yeah. And I've got to say, I've known people that, you know, have worked in tabloids in New York.

I'm totally serious here. Worked in tabloids in New York City and seen the absolute worst of what happens in New York. And it wears them down after a while. I know you're worn down by seeing all the lies you have to follow all across the Internet, just the absolute sewers that your mind has to crawl through to report on this stuff. I'm dead serious. And I know it's grim. She's going to start crying. You're a reporter. So I want to ask you how yesterday felt for you. I will just say, though, do you think perhaps a billion dollar verdict, perhaps that is going to make Alex Jones run for the rest of his life? Do you think perhaps it might cool things a bit on your beat, at least from people who have something to lose financially.

Yeah, look, Joe, I've been covering this up for a very long time now, as you just said, and I never saw the light of day. I never saw the light at the end of the tunnel here. There was a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel here. These are families who had their kids' graves desecrated by people who chased them around the country. That's what was going on here. This was not a speech issue. This was a pure harassment issue that was framed politically over the last few years as a speech issue because they got wrapped up in a bunch of other stuff.

Yesterday, you saw a court that worked. It was shocking in my line of work to see someone of Alex Jones's stature finally start to feel the heat a little bit. You know, I was watching his show as the verdict came in. I was listening to him talk and he was in disbelief, like literally disbelief. I don't think he thinks he's going to have to pay this money, even though he probably is going to have to pay this money. His world of lies that he built cannot withstand this. And he does not seem to understand that. He was talking yesterday about how he was saying, you know these people are never going to see this money, right? He was saying that on air as the verdict was verdict was being read out, they are they are almost certainly going to see at least a lot of this money.

He's going to have assets seized. He's going to like he's they're going to look into those offshore bank accounts and shell companies that he created. This is finally there's going to be a little bit of justice for all the people that he hurt over the last few years. Yeah, I mean, they were one of the fathers of one of the victims, Emily Parker, one of the little girls who died. Her dad yesterday said, I had people from Alex Jones's group come to my daughter's funeral and harass us. The funeral of a six-year-old girl. So he said, I've been waiting a long time for this day. What does it mean for the future of InfoWars? Alex Jones has tried to claim bankruptcy in the past. I don't have the money. You can't have any money. Turned out that wasn't true. Is InfoWars still a viable entity after this? It might be for now. But I will say what's an underrated thing about InfoWars is that they pay

well and they give you health insurance, which sounds like a very stupid thing, right? Like people don't go into that line of work to get health insurance, I'm sure. But once you're in it, it's pretty good. And they did this before they were just raking in cash. Alex Jones gave his employees a life that they could live to build all these lies and push them out and build a larger broadcasting system with the fear that he sold. So at the beginning, what he would do is say, there's stuff in your water, I will defluorate your water with this thing that I'm selling on my website. Then it became the Kabbalahs after you. You're going to take these pills for the end of the world. You're going to sell these prepper kits and stuff.

All that money is going to go to families now. He can't pay to keep his broadcasting system up and up. He built an entire parallel YouTube called Band Video. He can't pay to keep his broadcasting system up and up, right? He built an entire parallel YouTube called Banned Video. He built an entire parallel internet around the fact that he had been banned from the civilian social media. I have no idea how he's going to pay to keep those servers running. I just don't know. So there may be a way around this, but it doesn't sound like a legal way. And I think he's eventually going to have to face some consequences here.

I think it's happening now. And Joe, we heard from the usual suspects after this verdict came down yesterday, this judgment saying they're trying to chill speech. They're trying to silence us. Alex Jones has already become a martyr in many quarters because of this. Well, yeah, they are trying to chill you from harassing families at their funerals of their six year old daughters who got slaughtered by an AR-15 in first grade the last day before Christmas vacation. Yeah. Yeah. They are trying to hold

people accountable for for some of the most horrific behavior that we've ever seen. And the fact that their graves, these young children's graves, were defaced, the fact that these parents were chased around the country because of Alex Jones' lies, it's something. So do you agree with Ben? Yeah, I do because, I mean, there's a technical aspect about this. You can sell a judgment. Right.

I'm let's say I were, God forbid, a parent. Right. And I got one. I got a I don't know what the amount was, 200 million dollars or something. I don't have to chase. I don't have to hire a lawyer. So you can sell. I can sell it to Jackie who could collect these things and she can hire a law firm and she could go into the business of collecting these judgments forever.

By the way, Jackie, probably if you're selling it to Jackie, she probably does this all the time and knows how to stop Alex Jones. Right. That's right. I mean, there was there are these there are these vulture funds in New York City that go after foreign countries that fail to pay off their debt. Like guy like a singer. You ever hear that guy? And he they basically they hire these big law firms like Gibson, Dunn and Crutcher. And they basically know how to go out and get ships. And, you know, they know how to collect judgments. They know how to look for assets. They have investigators. So somebody could go into business doing, you know, basically paying these families a lot of money. Not that it not that it does them any good. No, but they want the accountability.

But they will know that there are going to be people out there incentivized to go out and chase this guy to the ends of the earth. So there isn't any way that he could declare bankruptcy that would freeze this process? I mean, I just think everybody wants to know, will he have to pay? Will he be shut down? You know, I don't know that you could just shut him down. But the thing about it is, is that you can you can I don't think the bankruptcy court will not discharge this entire debt. It will be it will be there will be have to be a system by which he has to pay it off.

And the money that he gets in the future goes to this. And if he hides assets, that's criminal, actually. So he could, you know, if he tries to if he tries to do, you know, do funny business to hide money from from the court, that's that's fraud. Yeah. Criminal fraud. So let me George, let me ask you, you've studied this pretty closely through the years, just the post-truth culture. Yeah. That existed before Donald Trump, but really was really put to a different level. And looking at this verdict, I'm just curious, what is your view as somebody who, again,

followed this day in and day out, this culture of lies is sort of this Russian fire hose of falsehoods that people on the Trump right spread every day. Talk about the chilling effect. Are you hopeful that we may be turning a corner? Was yesterday significant in that? Yeah, I think it's significant, but I don't think it's ever going to undo it all. And I think for the reasons I said earlier, I mean, there are these, these people are not, they're not rational. They are not moral people. They're people who are basically, um, it's just metastasized thanks to the internet, thanks to the various methods of communication and podcasting and everything. You can, you can spread vicious, vicious lies and profit off them

for a while and get away with it. And it takes a while. It takes a while for it all to catch up. Are you confident that Dominion will get a big judgment? Yeah, I am actually because, you know, first of all, it's very clear. The evidence is very strong. They're highly motivated. They have very good lawyers.

And the damages are immense. They're massive. They're immense because, I mean, if you're a you're a you're a county, you're a county election commissioner. I mean, why would you go out and hire and buy Dominion machines when you're just going to get, you know what for it? And by the way, I have a very good friend who runs elections in a Florida county. And every time he goes out publicly, people are shouting at him about Dominion voting machines. He's like, well, we don't actually have Dominion. And they scream, liar!

He was telling me about it. He was just at a meeting. They started screaming, liar! Liar! And he goes, well, no, actually, you could come down and chat. Has he ever been to Venezuela? We don't have it. But I'm saying, though, that's happening in 67 counties around the state of Florida.

That's happening in counties all across. No, they have done so much grave damage. And you look at the people who are going, Rudy, you look at all of these people. Again, there is there is going to be consequences to the laws of gravity, the laws of gravity almost returning. Yeah. And he's Ben Collins, thank you very much. Another top story this morning, today's hearing from the House committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol, and it'll focus on Trump's state of mind. Good luck with that.

An aide tells NBC News it will reveal new information the committee has gathered and will highlight events that took place before and after January 6th. The hearing will be roughly two and a half hours long with a 10 minute recess halfway through. Every member of the committee will present different pieces of evidence. It will not include any live witnesses, but will feature new testimony from witnesses who have appeared during past hearings, as well as from some who have not been seen before. This hearing will likely be the committee's last before the midterm elections. And that's where I begin with you, Jackie. So

they're wrapping this up. What more can you tell us in terms of what we can expect this afternoon and then what happens from there? Yeah. And just for the sake of transitions to show how dark and interconnected this world of extremism is, we'll probably be seeing texts from Alex Jones during this hearing today after his lawyer accidentally sent them to the lawyer of the Sandy Hook parents, who then provided it to the January 6th committee, who went through all of them and found that he was communicating with people like Roger Stone and other extremists. But today, I think, is going to be a little bit different from the previous hearings that we've seen in that it's going to take a step back, sort of be a 30,000 foot view of the entire effort to overturn the results of the election, starting from before Election Day and ending after January 6th, all of Trump's efforts to overturn the election, regardless

of what the electoral outcome was going to be. It's going to be divided up into a few different sections led by different lawmakers. One section that my colleague Carol Lennig and I reported on extensively yesterday is going to be focused on Secret Service and the way the Secret Service was sort of implicated in the cover up essentially of January 6th. And a lot of this information is going to be corroborative of information that here that the committee has already put out in previous hearings. There's probably going to be new testimony from associates of the former president, his cabinet secretaries who interviewed with the committee over the summer to talk about why they were potentially mulling the 25th Amendment and having questions about Trump's state of mind and his mental fitness after the attack, along with underscoring the ongoing

threat to democracy and our elections. As you were saying, Joe, the election worker in Florida who is subject to a constant barrage of attacks. This continues to today. It's what I like to call the slow rolling insurrection that has festered and been spawned by Trump's consistent, fraudulent claims of election fraud. Yeah. So, Jackie, this does feel something like a closing argument for this committee, which has been incredibly effective at telling the story. We noted, you know, when they last left us in July that there wasn't the usual grandstanding

we've seen from usually a congressional hearing is full of senators and members of Congress sort of puffing themselves up and telling long stories. It's been pretty focused on the facts. So the question is, what happens from here? They've grabbed the public's attention. We understand the story. The public understands the story of what happened before, during and after January 6th. They'll make a report and then likely some referrals. And then what does the Justice Department do with any of that is the question. Yeah, these are all very good questions, Willie. And these lawmakers don't have time to do the grandstanding because the

amount of information they've collected just between August and now alone, they received one point five million documents from the Department of Homeland Security regarding some of the document requests they made to the Secret Service. And they received a trove of emails, Microsoft team chats, new radio frequency recordings of radio frequency channels of live Secret Service communications that were taking place. So the committee is not only using this hearing to make the closing argument, but to squeeze in all of the evidence that they have not yet had a place to show yet. But you are right in that this is the last time that they have this platform before midterms and are really trying to lay out to voters ways that they feel like they have been misled and swindled. They're probably going to also show the ways in which the Republican Party really tried to defraud the American people by continuing to fundraise off of these false claims of

election fraud and allow people to make the most educated decision possible when they go to the polls in November, but more importantly, in 2024, and potentially present some alternatives and some new legislative remedies to prevent this from happening again. And, George, that leads to the question about Donald Trump. Jackie was just talking about people who fraudulently use the lie, the big lie to raise money from Americans, sort of the Jim and Tammy Faye Baker routine. Donald Trump is the guy in charge of this political PTL club. And I'm curious, does he does he face the consequences for for lying, saying, give me money? What did he raise, like a quarter of a billion dollars and didn't use it for any of these these efforts that he said he was going to use it for?

Well, he should. But, you know, there's there's there's a hesitancy to pursue political fundraising because of the potential First Amendment concerns. But here, you know, it's outright lying. It's no different than the Steve Bannon case where they're just basically saying, oh, we're going to build a wall. And of course, they never they're just lining their pockets. Trump is using it to pay for legal fees and using it to pay, you know, pay basically people happy and silent, I guess. And so it's just I think the reckoning for him is going to be broader than that piece of it, that civil fraud piece of it, where he's from the front fundraising the grift of it. I mean, he really there was just a broad based conspiracy to stop the operation of the federal government insofar as it was undergoing a peaceful transfer of power. And that is, you know, more than money, more than anything else is the most valuable thing we have in our democracy. And so that's what he really, if there's justice in this world, that's what he should be held to account.

The irony is, though, is that simpler things often take the day. And the documents case is just outright theft and lies in a way that's orders of magnitude simpler than anything else he's ever done. There's nothing to paper up and make complicated like his business is. And there's nothing. You don't have to deal with one and a half million emails and stuff like that. It's just really, really simple. It's Elton John's parking ticket. Here are the documents.

He's going through them himself. He's telling people to move the documents around. He's telling people to lie about that. He's a one-man show here. So where does that go? That, I mean, to me, that's the, again, I've said this many times, it's the shortest distance between Donald Trump and an orange jumpsuit is that case because it is so simple.

I mean, it's like the U.S. attorney trying to bring a big mob case against the five families and trying to connect it up to the boss. And all of a sudden they get the call from the NYPD saying, hey, the big boss, the capo is loading jewelry on a truck at Kennedy Airport. And that's what happened there. He's caught red handed. On the sliding scale, I'm curious of severity of the Espionage Act. What is required for the president to have done in order to go to prison? Basically, what he's already done. I mean, basically, refusing to give the documents back upon request is sufficient under the Espionage Act. And he's done that. And then you have the aggravating facts about the how how the volume of documents and the lying and the content of how long it's dragged on. So I don't know how they don't bring a case. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Jonathan Lemire, you have a question. I always question in there, Jonathan, because I mean, yesterday, I don't know if you really asked the question to bend down. Yeah. You know, Joe, we were talking yesterday with a delightful actress for a really scary and pertinent show, The Handmaid's Tale. I asked a question. It's okay. I do want to talk to George, though. I want to actually talk to Jackie about back to the January 6th hearing for a moment. Do you even know? Did she throw you off so much you don't even know who you want to talk to?

Do you want to talk to George or do you want to talk to Jackie? I would like to talk to Jackie. I will have moments to talk to George when I get downstairs in a minute. Jackie, we're going to talk a lot more about the Mar-a-Lago case later. But on January 6th,

tell us a little bit about the role of Liz Cheney today. You know, since we saw this committee gather last in the summer, she stood before voters in the primary in Wyoming and was defeated, roundly defeated, because they chose Trump and his and his brand of Republican Party over her. She is someone who put patriotism above party. And this for many, this will be her last chance in a spotlight like this until she leaves office. What should we expect from her today? Yeah, John, I wish I could actually share everything that's going on in my head when you ask that question, because we are

currently reporting a story on Liz Cheney's role, but we haven't yet confirmed all the facts yet. So I'm not going to go ahead and spoil it. But I do think we will see Liz Cheney play a similar role that she has played all along, which is being laser focused on the former president, making that case, putting that roadmap out in very clear view for the Department of Justice to pursue prosecution against the former president. This strategy has at times ruffled some feathers of the lawmakers on the committee who have wanted this to be a more high-minded, academic, and comprehensive look at everything that took place around the efforts to overturn the election. There is a feeling amongst investigators that not exactly every road leads to Trump when you look at some of the problems that have been festering that cause this kind of act of domestic political violence. But Cheney has firmly believed that she and the committee cannot take their eyes off of

Trump and that if you do, it gives the public, it gives voters, it gives the Republican Party an opportunity to turn away from him, to give him an out or a pass. And she is, you know, despite having lost an election and being on her way out of power, plans to very much stay in the public eye and potentially use this, who knows, for a 2024 presidential springboard. Jackie Alimany, thank you. I have a feeling we're going to see you tomorrow. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll be joined by Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut on the heels of the Alex Jones verdict. He says the Sandy Hook families deserve every dollar coming to them from the right wing

conspiracy theorist. Plus, a look at the growing drama over the lack of a debate between two candidates running for governor of Arizona. We'll talk about that also ahead. Democrats in Congress are pushing to take action against Saudi Arabia after OPEC Plus announced it would be reducing oil production. We'll go over the options on the table and a look at this morning's front page headlines, including new polling in one closely watched Senate race. You're watching Morning Joe.

We'll be right back. There are over 7 billion people in the world. But how many of us have the same father? Introducing 34andMe. Just swap your notes. Our team will analyze the results and reveal if Herschel Walker is your dad. He is. Yeah, he is. What? What the f***? 34andMe. So what do i do now be quiet i'm rafael warnock and i approve this message i can't see you it really changes the whole Ancestry.com thing.

You need to go and get the test. 34 and me. That was not a Warnock ad, we should point out. That was from Jimmy Kimmel making some jokes last night. But my God, Herschel Walker keeps feeding this beast, by the way, when he goes out and tells unsolicited stories about pregnant bulls and how they really got something going on. He's just keeping the story alive, isn't he?

He loves it. He really is. I mean, and again, we were talking dinner last night. Everybody's talking about Herschel Walker and him talking about telling a story about a bull that got three cows pregnant. But that just wasn't enough. He wanted to go over the fence and get three more pregnant. But he gave a thumbs up to the fact that three were pregnant.

He goes, so you know something's going on there. Thank you, Herschel. Yeah. And everyone laughed. We do actually know that something's going on there, and it's complicating things in Georgia. Yeah. What do you make of this, George? I'm speechless. I really don't know. I mean, I've gotten to, George? I'm speechless. I really don't know. I mean, I've gotten to the point where I'm almost ready to take on my phone and sort of, what do you block out Herschel so that I don't get any messages about him?

I don't know. I mean, it's just it's just the same kind of lunacy that we have. I mean, there's just it's almost like there's this wave of illness that's flooded the country. I mean, from an Alex Jones, Donald Trump to to Herschel Walker and all these people taught us how to tap into our insanity. I guess I tap into racism, cruelty, lying and to make it work for them. Right. And he's he's he's given a permit. He's created a permission structure for people to, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that some of these these senators that we our favorite senators like a Hawley or a Cruz or would have been good people in another universe. But they wouldn't have been quite as bad if they didn't learn from the master. They would be checked. They would be they would have some shame. It's the era of nothing matters. Right. Right. You know, there are no consequences that especially both of the parties, particularly Republicans, are the era of nothing matters. Right. There are no consequences. Especially, both political parties,

particularly Republicans, are the idea that nothing matters. There are no rules. They don't pay the price. It's about owning the libs and just trying to score cheap points. And not just no consequences. It's just the man was elected president of the United States by being a complete lunatic. And it worked. But again, though,

let's, again, put some perspective here. OK. Because Mika and I have this conversation all the time, which has no consequences. I got no consequences. Really? Donald Trump wins in 2016 on the one day that he could win, even according to Donald Trump. In 2017, Democrats win big.

Republicans get routed. In 2018, Republican Trump Republicans get routed. In 2019, Trump Republicans get routed in 2018, Republican Trump Republicans get routed in 2019. Trump Republicans get routed. You have you have Louisiana and Kentucky going Democratic in 2020. You have Donald Trump ending up being the first president since Herbert Herbert Hoover to lose the House, the Senate and the White House in his first term. There are twice. And then by the end of this year, he could be indicted twice. So their consequences really politically. You look economically there. Look at Alex Jones. Their consequences economically seeming seeming to return. And legally. My gosh, it seems all of the things Donald Trump thought he

was going to get away with through the years are all catching up to him in courthouses in Georgia and New York and across the country. Yeah, it certainly has added up. And if Donald Trump decides to run for president again, he might learn just how much is added up, which is to say that the people that took a flyer on him in 2016 and maybe tried him in 2020 just don't want any part of him anymore. I'm talking about voters. These senators, of course, will line up behind him if they're told to do that. But to George's point, people like Herschel Walker are where they are because of Donald Trump, because he put his hand on him and said, I like the way this guy played football for me for the New Jersey generals 40 years ago. Let's make him a United States senator. And he's famous and you love him for all the touchdowns he scored down in Athens. So this is Donald Trump's guy.

And the reason he's there is because no one, including those men behind him, Tom Cotton and Rick Scott, want to say the obvious, which is that he's a terrible candidate who threatened his wife, who has children he didn't he doesn't take credit for that he won't take responsibility for. That is a candidate who would have been run out of the race long ago, if not for Donald Trump standing in the way. They still will not cross the man who runs that party, Donald. Right. Yeah. And here here that here's the short term challenge you see in the background. You see Rick Scott, who runs the Republican Senate campaigns. You see Tom Cotton. Twenty twenty two should be a huge year for Republicans. Democrats were feeling good about it. You know, it's you go to the grocery store and you look at the prices of groceries.

They're just exploding. Gas prices are going to be exploding. We sit here and we're talking about the Constitutional Republic, Madisonian democracy being challenged. We talk about the January 6th hearings. The overwhelming majority of voters are concerned about the fact that they go to the grocery store and the prices are higher than the day before. Yeah, that's that's what's driving them. So maybe Hershel Walker wins. Maybe some of these Republicans win for reasons that have nothing to do with the

insanity, where they have nothing to do with the lies. And this sort of behavior gets rewarded. Right. And I mean, you know, but the point that you make, the obverse point is that they should have won more. This should have been a great year, even better than you could have ever imagined for Republicans two years ago because of all these factors. And in a normal off year, that's what would happen. In a normal off year where you have inflation for the first time, you have interest rates at our highest in 16 years. It's the gas prices. I mean, you would normally expect just a complete blowout. And that's not what we not likely to see that.

All right. So it's time now for a look at the morning papers in Indiana. The top story in the Indianapolis Tribune is looking at the state's abortion ban. Indiana's Supreme Court has issued a new order preventing enforcement of the Republican backed abortion ban. While the court considers whether it violates the state's constitution. Indiana was the first state to enact tighter abortion restrictions after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Willie? Speaking of some of those Senate races in Wisconsin, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is covering that state's closely watched Senate race. According to a new Marquette University Law School poll, Republican Senator Ron Johnson now has surged to a six point lead over his Democratic challenger Mandela Barnes.

Johnson had been up one point in the previous poll last month. Johnson running for a third term, backed by 42 percent of likely voters compared with 46 percent supporting Barnes. The two will debate tonight at Marquette University. All right, to Maine now, where the Portland Press-Herald reports that more than 350 lobstermen and their families took part in a rally yesterday urging the state's attorney general to sue federal regulators over proposed rules they argue could kill the lobstering industry. The regulations meant to protect the endangered North Atlantic whale would include restrictions on where lobstermen can place their traps. We'll be following that. And in the state of Florida, the front page of the Florida Times Union, taking a look at NASA's Artemis moon mission.

The next launch attempt now is scheduled to take place at twelve oh seven a.m. on November 14th. Remember, two previous attempts to launch that rocket in late August and early September were called off because of technical issues. All right. You know, let's talk really, really quickly before we go to break. Just about a follow up on yesterday. Dasha had an incredible report out of Pennsylvania. NBC's Dasha Burns. Yeah. Which for some reason pissed off some Democrats.

They're like, oh, my God. No, it's OK for you to talk about Herschel Walker all day. But please don't talk about a guy that has to read closed captioning in an interview. Because how dare you do that? Because voters don't care about that. You know, we really don't know if voters care about that or not. So they decide. And unfortunately, some people that have quite a few followers decide they're going to actually attack the reporter for doing the reporter's job, doing her job. Is that right? Are they getting

tips from Donald Trump followers? Like, why do you attack somebody for being a reporter? And by the way, this stroke, it is a significant, significant health event. And so for people to like to attack a reporter and go, oh, this doesn't matter. How dare they ask these questions? This is the dumbest. It matters. And they look like fools. They look like idiots. They look like hacks when they suggest that voters may not be interested in whether a guy is going to be able to function as a United States senator. Right. You don't go, oh, but it's Donald Trump. Oh, but it's us. No. A reporter following Fetterman asks Fetterman the question. So she did a great job. I must say also, Fetterman did a great job responding.

Oh, yeah. I loved the tweet where he went to the Philly Live board and he said, I showed up for the Philly Live board editorial board meeting and my opponent didn't. You can watch the whole thing. Dr. Oz skipped it. I had a stroke and I showed up. What's your excuse, Dr't it? You can watch the whole thing. Dr. Oz skipped it. I had a stroke and I showed up. What's your excuse, Dr. Oz? See, this is how you turn a disadvantage into an advantage. Yes. As as as as two short people said on an ad long, long ago. But he actually, for the first time after the Dasha Burns interview,

got on social media again and started turning it into his favor. And I must say, the expectations game, always critically important, these things going into debate. Expectations game has just been shifted now, thanks in part to Dasha Burns. She didn't mean to do it. She meant to report. But got that out there. Close captioning screen. Dr. Oz goes there and, you know, he can use that as a line. Yeah, I got a stroke. He's making fun of me for having a health care crisis that makes me relate to you more. Yeah. First of all, on Dasha, our job as reporters is to tell the story, to present information. We're not on anyone's team. We're not on anyone's side. And there's a plenty of that. Like, why are you attacking him with a lot

of whataboutism? She did a terrific job. In terms of Fetterman's response, yes, first of all, it's a legitimate issue that he suffered a stroke a few months ago. He is, doctors say, his team says he's recovering nicely, expected to make a full recovery, but right now still has auditory issues. Therefore, it is easier for him to talk to someone using the closed caption. That's part of the process. They've been very transparent up front with that and deserve credit for it. And now he does, you're right, he is able to use this and his campaign has been great throughout. Oh, they've been fantastic on social media. Rolling Dr. Oz, particularly on social media, hitting Oz for living in New Jersey, for voting in Turkey, for going to Dallas Cowboys games.

You know, you're trying to represent a state that includes the Philadelphia Eagles. That's not a good option where you're going to Dallas Cowboys games. And they've been picking off one after another issues on Oz and the crudite, of course. And now this. And he's used this, and he's pivoting forward, setting up the debate, and also suggesting that, look, I had this health issue. Many of my future constituents have had health issues the same. Not only is he, as a human being, not being compassionate, he's a doctor. And he's not being aware of my medical challenges. So the Fetterman team took what was a very difficult moment

and made it a good one yesterday. Yeah, he really is becoming of a doctor, of a doctor mocking somebody because they had a stroke. Well, we'll put doctor in quotes for Dr. Oz. Exactly. Well, we, I mean. But, George, I thought Fetterman, first of all, I think you'd agree with me. It's a legitimate issue.

Absolutely. That's where it's at. He did a great job with the reporting. But secondly, it seems that coming out of that interview, Fetterman did a very good job. Yeah, I mean, he seems to be supposing himself in Dr. The jiu-jitsu's he keeps pulling off. I mean, show me that he's like, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I mean, who has neurological capacity to do that consistently?

I think it's pretty good. Yeah, it's great. Well, George Conway, it's great to have you on. Thank you very much. And coming up, we're going to go live to Moscow where NBC's Keir Simmons just spoke to a top Russian official about Vladimir Putin's state of mind. I wonder how that went. Is Keir reporting from the streets or prison? mind. Plus, we'll get expert analysis on the state of the war in Ukraine from a former CIA officer. We're back in just a moment. This morning, Russia launched an assault on the Ukrainian capital city of Kiev for the fourth consecutive day. Ukrainian officials say Kiev was struck by Iranian-made kamikaze drones early this morning. According to the Associated Press, one official said on Telegram,

critical infrastructure facilities were hit without offering details on which ones. It's not yet clear if there were any casualties, but Russia continues its assault deep inside Ukraine. Meanwhile, NBC News senior international correspondent Keir Simmons spoke to Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak and asked him about President Putin's state of mind. You work closely with President Putin. How would you describe his frame of mind right now? The president, first of all, thinks about the interest of our country

and about the interest of people who live in our country. And Kir joins us now from Moscow. So, Kir, what more did you glean from that interview about the Russian state of mind, Putin's state of mind and where this war is heading? Well, you're actually getting news today that Turkey is again, President Erdogan, again, meeting with President Putin and trying to see if he can be at the center of peace negotiations in terms of the Russians' state of mind. I don't think that's likely to go very far because fundamentally, the Russians would not be prepared to give up territory that they have taken

in this conflict. And of course, Ukraine and its allies there in the U.S. and in the West would not be prepared to give up territory that they have taken in this conflict. And of course, Ukraine and its allies there in the US and in the West are not prepared to allow Russia to hold on to territory. So that is the fundamental block there that means the conflict will likely continue. Now, talking to Alexander Novak, he is in the center of all of this geopolitics because he is the man, the Russian, who has sat down with the Saudis and the other OPEC leaders to negotiate that oil price, that cut to oil production of 2 million barrels per day that has so frustrated folks in the U.S. because it means potentially higher prices at the pump.

He, as you would expect, insisted to me that that's not a political decision, that it's an economic decision by Saudi Arabia and Russia and the other countries involved. And then, Willie, I also wanted to ask him about these reports that Russia is selling oil to India and China at a discount, a hefty discount by one account, $25 per barrel cheaper. And he has an interesting answer. Take a listen. The IMF says that Russian oil is being rerouted to India and China at a discount. Are India and China helping support the Russian economy? India and China, in my opinion, are primarily interested in meeting the needs of their own economies in energy resources.

If Russian oil is cheaper on the market today, then it will find a customer who is interested in it. And really notable that yesterday that UN vote to condemn Russia's offensive in Ukraine, that both India and China abstained in that vote. Saudi Arabia joined the 143 countries that voted in favor of that resolution. Saudi Arabia overnight insisting itself to coming out. And I think it's notable that it was Saudi Arabia's been keen to try and do this to say that, no, no, no, that cut in oil production, that's nothing to do with us siding with Russia. Yeah. And we're just getting news as well that Putin told Erdogan in that meeting this morning that he may make Turkey a gas hub. So working closely, as usual, with Erdogan. Kir, when you spoke to the deputy prime minister, how did he defend or how did he explain the attacks on civilian targets now deep inside Ukraine?

We saw that smoldering playground. We saw the pedestrian bridge blown up. We've seen theaters and hospitals attacked. How do they defend the way they've prosecuted this war? The deputy prime minister is a tough character. He answers the questions that he wants to answer. You heard him there. He barely answered really the question about President Putin's mindset.

And, of course, the crucial thing to understand, really, about this country is that there is only really one person in the political sphere that really matters and that is President Putin himself. It's interesting when he spoke at the forum yesterday that there was an awful lot of security when he was speaking. As soon as President Putin left, the security dropped despite the fact that there are other members of the government there. So, you know, I think the truth is when you talk to anyone other than President Putin here, you are talking to, you aren't talking to the boss. That is the reality of it. And certainly you're not talking to the person who made the decision with Ukraine, although, of course, all of them are party to the decision. NBC's Keir Simmons reporting for us from

Moscow this morning. Keir, thanks so much as always. We will continue this conversation in just a moment with Ed Luce and Mark Polymeropoulos. Also ahead, Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy joins us at the top of the hour in just a few minutes following that massive judgment against conspiracy theorist Alex Jones in a settlement giving money to the parents of the Sandy Hook school shooting victims. Plus, Florida Congresswoman and January 6th committee member Stephanie Murphy is our guest ahead of today's hearing. Morning Joe's coming right back.