Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/17/23

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

White House and Israel working on getting aid to Gaza

On Wednesday, President Biden will visit Israel. He's coming here at a critical moment for Israel, for the region, and for the world. The president will reaffirm the United States' solidarity with Israel and our ironclad commitment to its security, that Israel has the right and indeed the duty to defend its people from Hamas and other terrorists and to prevent future attacks. The president will hear from Israel how it will conduct its operations in a way that minimizes civilian casualties and enables humanitarian assistance to flow to civilians in

Gaza in a way that does not benefit Hamas. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken announcing President Biden's trip to Israel ahead of that country's looming ground offensive into Gaza. The visit will come amid a growing humanitarian crisis in the territory and desperate efforts to get civilians out of the war zone. We'll go through all of that and get a live report from the Israel-Gaza border in just a moment. And Willie, of course, there is a desperate effort to try to get the Palestinians out of the war zone, a desperate effort internationally from the United States, from the Israelis trying to get them out of the war zone. Of course, the United States working as hard as they can to try to pressure Egypt to have that crossing

into Egypt from Gaza. Right now, they're still pushing back. But, you know, the Wall Street Journal editorial page puts it puts it really best when they talk about, you know, Palestinian lives matter except to Hamas. You have the entire world community trying to get the Palestinians out of harm's way. And you have Hamas leaders sitting in resort hotels in Qatar in four seasons, holding press conferences, ordering Hamas fighters to keep Palestinians who want to flee with their families to keep them in North Gaza. So literally everybody is trying to get the Palestinians out of the coming war zone, except for Hamas, who, as we heard yesterday, have started to set up blockades to keep innocent civilians in the war zone who are trying to flee

and who, of course, are trying to fight efforts by the United States and others to open up the safe corridor into Egypt for temporary settlements so they can be safe with their families while the war between Israel and Hamas is going on. And reports, in fact, that Hamas is intercepting what little U.N. aid is there on the ground, any humanitarian aid, destroying some of it or just keeping it from the people of Gaza as well, who are trying to survive in what, as you say, is a humanitarian crisis. Secretary of State Blinken has been up almost literally 24 hours a day shuttling between Middle Eastern countries and trying to prevail upon Israel, Egypt and others to open that

corridor and get some people out of there. They're talking about opening safe zones within Gaza where Israel would not strike. So, yes, the world community is scrambling to protect the citizens of Gaza, the civilians of Gaza, that is ahead of what is expected to be a massive operation from the Israeli military. And again, the question that needs to be answered from Arab countries that love to put out press releases saying how much they support the Palestinian cause is exactly why don't you actually support the Palestinians? Right. Why is it that you won't bring some Palestinians in as refugees temporarily?

We assure them their right to return, but take care of it. The ugly secret, unfortunately, throughout the Arab world is that Arab countries want no part of the Palestinians. They want no part of Hamas. They are actually fighting against us, against the United States of America, as Tony Blinken is going around trying to get Arab countries to help these Palestinian refugees out, to step up with funding. What about, I have a great idea. What about Kuwait? It seems to me the United States gave and gave and gave to the government of Kuwait and the people of Kuwait.

They're doing nothing in return. Absolutely nothing. And you look at Egypt. Egypt wants no part of it. They get billions of dollars in aid from the United States every year, aid from the United States every year. And they won't even open up the corridor because they don't want Palestinians in their country. So, again, a lot of hypocrisy. And right now, who are the people who are suffering? It's the Palestinian people. And yes, it's the Arab world. Children, babies, all hanging in the balance. Right. Being used, really. Being used.

And these Arab countries, the Sunni Arab countries, again, who are making peace with Israel, but never made peace with the Palestinians as part of that process. The incredible thing is they won't help. And so here we have Tony Blinken running around all the Middle East asking Arab countries to help us help the Palestinians. And they're refusing. For some reason, nobody ever tells that story. It needs to be told. And the president, of course, is heading headed back. We're going to get to the fight for the speaker who's going to be the speaker of the House because we don't have one. And Trump got a gag order. We'll get to that. But let's stay on this, Willie. Yeah, let's go right to the border. Israel and Gaza. NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel is there for us again this morning.

Richard, if you could just pick up on that point that Joe was just making about the efforts by Secretary Blinken scrambling across seven or eight different Middle Eastern countries to try to get them on board with the humanitarian crisis, with doing something to aid the people of Gaza. Where does that stand right now? And how likely in your long experience in the Middle East is it that Middle Eastern countries would help in that effort? Good morning. So many diplomatic efforts underway right now. First of all, on that potential safe zone in Gaza. Diplomatic efforts are underway. U.S. officials say they are working on it. They haven't discussed any specifics because they're trying to figure out how that aid would get in, where it would go,

how it would be distributed, who would be responsible, and how to make sure that it doesn't end up in the hands of Hamas and not getting to the Palestinian people. Do I think it will happen? It is very possible that it will happen. There is a lot of pressure on Hamas, a lot of pressure on Israel to allow some aid to get in there. Many Arab states have been accusing Israel of carrying out a policy of collective punishment by sealing off the entire Gaza Strip and not allowing

in electricity, food, medicine and other supplies. So that is only one part of the of the diplomatic push that President Biden will also now be engaged in personally when he comes here, comes to this country tomorrow. The other is this ongoing effort to free the hostages. And there was a development yesterday. It came from Hamas. It is still tentative, but it is potentially a game changer in that the main spokesman for the military wing of Hamas gave a statement through Hamas's regular verified channels in Arabic, saying that Hamas has 200 hostages. The group said that other Palestinian factions inside Gaza have around 50 or more than 50 other hostages, so bringing the total number of hostages inside the Gaza Strip to 250-plus.

But Hamas says of the 200 that its military wing is holding, it has verified their identities and says it is holding an unspecified number of foreign nationals and that it is willing to let them go. It is willing to let them go because it says they were taken during its raids into Israel

when it went on a killing and kidnapping spree, didn't check their identities at the time, but that the foreigners are not part of its conflict with Israel, that it has no issue with them, and that it will let them go when, quote, field conditions are right. Now, what exactly that means is unclear. But Iran, which backs Hamas, has said that Hamas is willing to let hostages go if Israeli airstrikes on the Gaza Strip continue. So that is another potential development.

There's work getting humanitarian aid in. And then, of course, there is the looming military action. The Israeli airstrikes into Gaza are still continuing, although I will say that over the last 24 hours or so, they do seem to have slowed down. There are still airstrikes, but they are not quite as ferocious as we as we saw over the last over the first few days of this conflict. Richard, since October 7th, obviously, our impression, the world's impression of Israel is this fearsome fighting military machine has been severely damaged, its reputation damaged.

I'm curious. We're hearing about the hundreds of thousands of fighters that are coming in now, the reservists that are coming back in. Do you get a sense that Israel is once again feeling confident that their defense, their military can actually defend the people? Are they still shattered by the events of October 7th? Are they still questioning whether Benjamin Netanyahu and this this coalition government can do the job? All of those things are true. The Israelis right now are angry, but they are also nervous. They are nervous that how they could have missed this. They are nervous what Hamas may

have in store in Gaza. But they they they say and if you ask Israelis, they will say, yes, we we were caught sleeping. We made a mistake. There is anger directed at the Netanyahu government and Netanyahu personally. But Israelis are saying now they've mobilized. They're not sleeping anymore. And they are on a mission as a nation to to destroy Hamas. That is the collective goal here. And I think everyone feels that it is something that is that is necessary. The question is, how do you do that? Do you send the 300 plus thousand reservists into Gaza in some sort of blitzkrieg? Do you carry it out through targeted raids, potentially in coordination with the United States and other countries? Do you do a combination

of the two? Do you send in some troops to block off parts of the Gaza Strip while raids continue and negotiations continue? It is an enormously delicate time. And that's just in the Gaza Strip. And this is this conflict has now already spread beyond Gaza. It's important to think about this as what's described as the axis of resistance here. And that is Iran and its proxies and its proxies are Hamas and Hezbollah. And Hamas is clearly mobilized. Hezbollah is mobilizing. And there have been strikes carried out by Hezbollah against Israeli troops along the border. Israel has evacuated some border communities. And then Iran has issued vague threats just in the last 24 hours that it might carry out preemptive strikes

if Israel's attack on Gaza continues. So there are many signs that there could be some diplomatic progress with the potential opening of a safe corridor, a safe zone, some movement. The first time ever we're hearing any kind of movement regarding the hostages. But the new threats from Iran and Hezbollah all do not bode well. NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel, thank you very much for your reporting on the scene. Joining us now, NBC News Chief International Correspondent Keir Simmons and White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, the host of Way Too Early. Keir, let's start with you. Headline of the Wall Street Journal, top of the page, war shifts global dynamics. You suddenly

see a connection between Hamas. You can draw a straight line to Iran. From Iran, you can draw a straight line to Russia. From Russia, you can draw a straight line to China. Not saying they were all coordinated in this, just simply saying this Wall Street Journal article states, that this is actually a big win for Russia. The fact that the United States is going to be drawn in is something that Russia's celebrating right now. Well, Joe, let's describe it in a different way. We live in a different world than, for example, when the U.S. invaded Iraq all those years ago. And you can dismiss the United Nations, but it does give us a window into the way the world looks right now those years ago. And you can dismiss the United Nations, but it does give us a window into the way the world looks right now.

The UN Security Council met last night. There was a Russian draft which strongly condemned all violence and hostilities directed against civilians and all acts of terrorism. That draft never mentioned Hamas. Linda Thomas-Greenfield saying at that same meeting, that same session, by failing to condemn her mass, Russia is giving cover to a terrorist group that brutalizes innocent civilians. It's

outrageous, hypocritical and indefensible. That being said, Joe, I'm told by a European diplomat that the U.S. didn't like a Brazilian resolution that called for humanitarian pauses, that firmly condemned all violence and hostilities against civilians, but also unequivocally reject and condemned the heinous terrorist acts by Hamas. I was told for the US that was just too much equivalence. I think it's notable, for example, that last night the votes for that Russian resolution, which didn't pass, included the United Arab Emirates. So if you just take the Arab world, for example, polls, very strong, deep polling suggests that actually the Arab streets view of

Israel hasn't moved by more than a few percentage points since the Abraham Accords apparently improved relations. We're seeing Russia and China, as you mentioned, in lockstep. President Putin meeting with President Xi in China tomorrow. I thought one phrase from the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, after speaking with the secretary of state over the weekend was fascinating. He said there is no way out through military means and using violence for violence will only create a vicious cycle. So you're right. I mean, clearly, America needs as many allies for this as possible. So does Israel. And clearly, America's foes will enjoy any way in which the U.S. gets pulled into a quagmire or is seen to make a mistake. And particularly, and just to talk again about the way the world has changed,

particularly, for example, what we call the global south, watching from the sidelines, forming opinions. Again, another quote, this is from the Colombian president. Okay, you can say the Colombians don't really have a, you know, anything to do with this. But I think it's interesting what the president said. If we have to suspend foreign relations with Israel, we'll suspend them. We do not support genocide. So what's happening here, beyond what's happening in the region and in Israel and Gaza itself, is the continuing battle for the hearts and minds of peoples and countries around the world by the U.S., by the West. This conflict is now part of that, guys. So, John, the president will visit,

as we said, Israel tomorrow on this trip to Tel Aviv. He has been unequivocal in his support. He made a couple of strong speeches last week. He's going to go there now literally to stand shoulder to shoulder with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But what do you expect behind the scenes? The solidarity is the public view and important, obviously. What's he going to be talking to the prime minister about in private? Well, let's start with the debate behind the scenes here in the U.S. as to whether or not the president was going to make this trip. No doubt he's been very publicly strong about supporting Israel. But there was some concern here about making this trip, that it could inflame tensions in the region. It could provoke more attacks from Hamas. Obviously, it's a very delicate security situation there.

Yesterday, the secretary of state had to shelter multiple times because there were air raid sirens going off in Tel Aviv. We all recall President Biden went to Kiev back in February. The U.S. sent advance notice to Russia, basically saying, hey, don't try anything. They don't think Hamas will be as listen as well as perhaps Moscow did. So there is some state of alarm there for tomorrow. There's also a sense that there's the president certainly doing Benjamin Netanyahu a domestic political favor. President Biden, very popular in Israel right now. Netanyahu, eager for the association. But the matter trumps the politics. That's what the White House aides keep telling me, and that they want to have the president show solidarity. But there's more than

that. This is going he's going to really push the idea of this Gaza operation. They allow civilians to leave. And there was timing here. The president wanted to make sure if he was go to Israel before Israel goes in to Gaza to try and make that push to say, look, the civilians here, let's make sure as many of them get out as possible. And part two of this is after Israel, he heads to Jordan and he's going to meet with a couple of Arab world leaders, particularly Egypt. And that is, aides tell me, going to be a real focus, pushing President Sisi there to do Egypt's part to let some of these Palestinians escape Gaza. So, Kir, let's step back just a minute. And I'd love to go through your last answer, just for our viewers, our friends at home that are watching, to understand right now how the world's split. Of course, we've got the

West, especially with the Poland win by Donald Tusk's coalition. You've got a unified West, a unified Europe, a unified America, whether you're talking about Israel right now or whether you're talking about Ukraine. But you talked about the global south and we can go from Colombia to the UAE to India, countries that, well, are, you know, are more non-aligned right now. It's interesting. Joe Biden has been able to consolidate NATO and consolidate everything. But it's interesting, the very things you're saying about Israel, you could say about Ukraine. Talk about that continued battle for the hearts and the minds of the global south. Yeah, well, I mean, it's clearly it's clearly an issue. I mean, be in no doubt that China and Russia see that as a principal objective to win over the global south as far as possible

because they consider that collective vote, if you like, to be an important one. And then I would just say one thing, Joe, you know, Europeans may not be as united as we necessarily think. I mean, if you just look at the past more than a week, they've struggled. They suspended aid to Gaza, then they reversed it. I'm told that there was actually fury when Ursula von der Leyen went to Israel on Friday and failed, in the view of some, to combine support for Israel

with explicit calls for restraint. It was only on Sunday night that all the 27 countries of Europe united in a statement to say we strongly emphasize Israel's right to defend itself in line with humanitarian and international law, but also reiterate the importance of ensuring the protection of civilians. So just think about the Europeans who are worrying. One European diplomat said to me they're worrying about their local situation. We just saw that alleged terror attack overnight in Brussels. They're worried about their situation. One European diplomat said to me, we don't want to import this crisis. So there's a lot of nervousness in a lot of places about how this plays out. And if you talk about the Arab world,

it is understandable that Arab leaders will have front of mind the view of the Arab street because that hasn't gone away despite the Abraham Accords. So, and then in terms of the global South, the message that China and Russia consistently try to send, and you may think it's laughable, they try to send the message that we're the underdogs, just like you, we're on your side. And that I think the underdogs, just like you, we're on your side. And that, I think,

is the danger, is that if that takes hold, that idea that the Palestinians are the underdogs, this starts to turn the long way. I think that's part of the reason why you have President Biden so concerned about the idea of an Israeli occupation of Gaza. So NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons, we thank you for your analysis. We'll see you again soon. And when we're back in just 60 seconds, we're going to have the latest on the partial gag order imposed on Donald Trump in the federal election interference case against him. And if he complains about the gag order in front of a huge crowd, is that bad? We'll tell you what he won't be able to say, apparently. Plus, it's another consequential day on Capitol Hill where Republicans are expected to try yet again

to agree on a House speaker. It looks like they may be agreeing on a House speaker at the center of January 6th. Terrific. Wow. We're back in 60 seconds. How's that going to work? Witnesses in his federal election interference case, that decision announced yesterday by a U.S.

district judge, Tanya Chutkan. Prosecutors originally asked for a more comprehensive gag order, but Judge Chutkan refused to put restriction on Trump's statements about Washington, D.C., criticisms of the government or the Department of Justice. She did impose a restriction on all parties, including Trump, banned them from making or reposting any statements publicly targeting the special counsel or his staff, as well as court staff members or personnel.

In her ruling, Judge Chotkin rejected Trump's team's argument that he should be allowed to say what he wants because he's running for president. Quote, Mr. Trump can certainly claim that he's being unfairly prosecuted, but I cannot imagine any other criminal case in which a defendant is permitted to call the prosecutor deranged or a thug. And I will not permit it here simply because the defendant is running a political campaign. Trump responded at a campaign rally in Iowa last night. They think the only way they can catch me is to stop me from speaking they want to take away my voice and a judge gave a gag order today did you hear that on speech which i believe is totally unconstitutional what she did a judge gave a gag order the judge doesn't like me too much

her whole life is not liking me trump says he will appeal the gag order ruling. Let's bring in former U.S. attorney, senior FBI official Chuck Rosenberg, also with us, MSNBC contributor, our buddy Mike Barnicle and former White House director of communications to President Obama, Jennifer Palmieri. She's co-host of the MSNBC podcast, How to Win 2024. So, Chuck, let's just start right at the top there with something the former president said. Gag orders are constitutional, are they not? They are. They're narrowly tailored, Willie, and this one seems to be. So I could imagine a gag order that goes too far. I could imagine a gag order that doesn't go far enough. I think Judge Chutkin here, you know, hit the happy middle.

I think the harder question, though, is what happens when he almost inevitably violates the gag order. It's one thing to write one. Judges are used to having criminal defendants in front of them and they're used to having these defendants abide court orders. Even criminals can conform their behavior in front of most federal judges. I think the harder question is inevitably when he violates the gag order, what next? So, Chuck, let's take that speech last night, that event, for example. He specifically went after the judge, the gag orders about the prosecutors themselves. Where is the line on all this?

We know he won't be able to control himself up in front of a crowd. So let's say he violates the gag order, goes after the prosecutor or witnesses in this federal case. This applies to the federal election case. What happens next? Right. So a judge under those circumstances, Willie, would have a bunch of options, but they're not all easy to implement. She could reprimand him. She could essentially reissue the order and remind him of his obligations. That's sort of the low end of the spectrum. She could fine him. She could even revoke his bond and imprison him, although that would introduce a host of logistical and technical difficulties because he has a Secret Service detail and he's running for president. Where on that spectrum she lands if he violates it, I don't know. She may not even know. We use the word unique a lot. And frankly, I think it tends to be overused. This is unique. She sees him as a defendant running for president. He thinks of himself as someone running for president who also happens to be a defendant. They're coming at it from very different directions. And so when he inevitably violates her order in some way,

I think the hard question is, what does she do next? And I don't really know the answer. It's hard to imagine putting Mr. Trump, while he's a candidate running for president, in prison. Yeah, but go ahead. Let's let's make this simple. Let's make this simple. I understand he's running for president. Political speech is protected. I understand he has a right to campaign. She said he's even allowed to say the process is rigged if he wants to. At the same time, as the judge stated in her order, she cannot imagine any other trial where you would have a defendant allowed to run out calling prosecutors thugs. I can't imagine any criminal case in which a defendant is permitted to call the prosecutor deranged or a thug. And I will not permit it here simply because the defendant is running

for political campaign. So, yes, this is unique. What is not unique is the fact is this is he's a criminal defendant. And she's exactly right. He cannot. He cannot. Because no criminal defendant that I've ever heard of has been able to attack members of the court, officers of the court, the way Donald Trump is. Right. OK, so a couple of things are simple, Joe. You're right. He's a criminal defendant. She's right. The order she issued is narrowly tailored and designed to accomplish all those purposes you just explained. That said, what does she do when he violates it? And I don't know that there's a lot of other data points for us, frankly, Joe. I mean, there aren't a lot of cases like this.

I can't think of any. And so, yeah, in some ways it's simple. He's a criminal defendant and he has to abide her order. Fine. Good. Got it. What happens when... So let me just ask you, again, I'm sorry. He's running for president. That's awesome. Under under the United States of America, I mean, under our laws, we believe that nobody's

above the law. What would happen if in a case that you were trying any case that you were trying where a criminal defendant sold, don't go out and call us thugs. And then he goes out on the court steps, holds a press conference. The defendant calls him thugs. I don't know where you practice. I can tell you where I practice. The judge would call him back in, hold him in contempt of court and throw him in jail. Where I practice, if somebody violated a court order, the judge would haul him back in, hold them in contempt and sanction them, maybe find them, maybe put them in jail, but they would certainly sanction them. You and I agree on that, Joe. There's a problem here, though. It's much more difficult than that. And so I take it that we all have to try and find

the simple answer. I don't know that there is. First of all, how do you put somebody with a secret service detail in prison? Second, because the First Amendment absolutely protects political speech. Tell me precisely what the line is between political speech, valid criticism, let's say, of Mr. Biden or the Justice Department, and speech that violates her order. I just don't know. Maybe I'm not smart enough to figure out where that line

clearly lies. Well, I think I think you're extraordinarily smart. Maybe it's just because I'm a simple country lawyer that just fell off of a turnip truck outside of 30 Rock. But it seems to me that you have they get called back in. You don't you don't create one set of rules for Donald Trump. There's no ambiguity. And another set of rules for the Trump. There's no ambiguity. And another set of rules for the other 330 million people. I understand it's a complicated issue and it has to be acted upon with nuance. But if he continues to attack

and insult members of the court, I'm quite confident that John Roberts Supreme Court will rule with the judge that there has to be an orderly procedure inside that courtroom if there is somebody that is constantly attacking the validity of the court and trying to undermine a federal judge, another officer of the court. I don't think the Roberts court would see it as that complicated so long as it is narrowly tailored to the contours of actually running the case in a manageable,

professional way. And if he steps out of line, you sanction him. And if he steps out of line, sanction him again. If he steps out of line the third time, I think every federal judge would throw him in jail regardless of who he is. Put an ankle bracelet on him and put him in Mar-a-Lago. Yeah. Security detail. I don't think we're really saying something very different here. I agree with you, Joe and Mika. If he continues to flout a judge's order and that order is narrowly tailored to ensure an orderly proceeding in her courtroom, yeah, appellate courts, Supreme Court, they're going to back her because judges have the right and the obligation, by the way, to run their court in an orderly and efficient manner. That's not the hard part.

The hard part is determining what speech violates her order. Let's say, as he did in Iowa last night, that he criticizes the Justice Department or President Biden. That seems to be fair game. If he goes after witnesses, that seems to be in violation of her order. It's almost inevitable, Joe and Mika, that he's going to do something like that. He's making money off of it. His polls are going up because of it. Why wouldn't he? He's never shown an ability to conform his behavior. OK, at what point does she simply find him? At what point does she find that he needs in Mika's and Mika's right? You know, maybe an ankle bracelet is an alternative to imprisonment, incarceration, pending trial.

But I don't think these are easy decisions for any federal judge. And I don't know what the triggering event will be. I just fear that there will be one. Oh, Chuck, there's no doubt about that. There is going to be one because of what we just saw in the clip coming in. Every time this former president speaks, he says something to indict himself in one way or another during his ramblings. In the clip that we showed coming into this segment, he actually said that the gag order, when he's explaining what the judge did to him by implementing a gag order, that they think it's the only way that they can catch me. The only way that they can catch me. In other words, he's done something wrong. So my question to you is, what do we do?

Never mind legally, what do we do as a country, as a culture, when we have a former president who nearly every time he speaks extemporaneously indicts himself? Yeah, it's interesting. Well, look, first of all, like we indicted him. Our country, our system of justice, the Justice Department has already indicted him. We don't need him to indict himself. He's been indicted in four different places on 91 felony counts. So the country, our system of justice has reacted properly to a former president who is a criminal. That process is actually working. I don't think people need to despair. That process in four different places, in two states and in federal court is actually working. I think a lot of what's incumbent upon us is how much attention we pay to

this man. I think, frankly, it's far too much. I am heartened by the fact that prosecutors are doing their job in federal court and in New York and Georgia. I am heartened by the fact that we have judges like Judge Shutkin who are trying to administer justice in a fair and even-handed and efficient manner. I think these are good things, not bad things. And sometimes I think these are good things, not bad. And sometimes I think we focus too much on what Mr. Trump says. I'm I'm very happy to ignore it. I know the judge can't. I know the judge has to pay attention. I know she has to administer her court and this process. But I think we pay way too much attention to what this man says. Former U.S. attorney Chuck Rosenberg, always love having your expertise on

this stuff. Thanks so much for being here. Jen, you've been out with the circus. You've been out watching Republican candidates talk about Donald Trump. It has to be said, and yes, he still has the massive lead in the primary, how small he has looked really since the war began. Israel, the attack in Israel by Hamas, criticizing Netanyahu, publicly praising Hezbollah as, quote, very smart, but also just in the images we see there, his sitting at a defendant's table being told to shut up effectively by a judge yesterday. How is the primary shaping up as you get out in the field and listen to some of these other candidates talk about it? So I went to a Trump event in Wolfborough, New Hampshire last Monday. So after the attacks, pretty buttoned up,

talked about LIHEAP, low income, you know, heating assistance. He talked about, because energy is a big, you know, you know, Lamir, energy is a big issue in New England. The whales came into play. We did hear about the whales, but it was buttoned up on Hamas. And then Wednesday, after Netanyahu said some nice things about President Biden, after we saw billboards in Tel Aviv saying, thank you, President Biden, that is when he went unhinged. And it did feel different with the Republican candidates. You know, I saw DeSantis and Berlin. We covered Nikki Haley a lot. I talked to Mike Pence about this. They all sensed like something was had changed after Wednesday night, that this was more serious, more unhinged, more reckless. Whether they're in a position to do anything about it, I don't think any of them, you know, are pretty they're pretty uncertain

about that. Yeah, it's a pretty rare moment, though, when any of these Republicans have dared take on Trump. But more than I think the reaction from the Trump camp has been telling this is a rare statement where they have really tried to walk it back. They've done a lot of damage. They did not double down, as they always do. They said all their hit up their big hit on DeSantis was his attack on me doesn't make sense. Not that it was wrong. It was taken out of context. Like not that it was not that they were. He was not that what he not doubling down on what Trump actually. Yeah, precisely. Back off. Precisely right. It's not just the Trump hasn't repeated those things, which he usually does when he almost like it's a it's a tick. When someone calls out on something, he just goes further. He hasn't.

But also his campaign has put out multiple statements trying to mitigate this. So, I mean, yeah, Joe Mika, we will see if it has any impact on this Republican primary campaign. Odds are it doesn't. But yet it's another moment, though, file away for the general election next year. Another moment, combination of the statements about Israel, this gag order, the impending court dates, another moment that would probably make him not palatable for those independent and swing voters who are actually going to decide this election next year. Well, and you look at Jewish voters, you look at some pro-life voters, you have Donald Trump actually striking out against people that he once considered part of his base. He was critical of Jewish voters after the election for not voting

for him. It could impact. And and and obviously critical of pro-life voters several times. So it's fascinating. And how will it impact the primary? Maybe not significantly, but one thing is for sure. These candidates are finally going after Donald Trump and they're going after him hard. When we come back, we're going to show you a Chris Christie commercial that he's just putting out today where he calls Donald Trump a fool four times. And also coming up, Congressman Jim Jordan's 6th insurrection against the United States government. And this is who Republicans want to run the House. There'll be a vote on the House floor later today. We'll have new reporting about where things stand on Capitol Hill. Plus, we'll talk about the ongoing war efforts in both Europe and the Middle East

with former CIA director, retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus. Morning Joe will be right back. Did you see him hide? Did you see him crawl? It is starting to feel like fall, about 50 degrees right now in Washington. All right. Forty three past the hour. Here is the new ad that Joe was talking about from Super PAC supporting former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie taking on former President Donald Trump over his recent comments praising Hezbollah. As Israel fights Hamas in Gaza in the south of Israel, the IDF also traded rocket fire with Hezbollah. The ties between Hezbollah and Iran are far greater, far more organized. Hezbollah is Lebanon's most powerful armed group and is committed to Israel's destruction. You know, Hezbollah is very smart. They're all very smart. He's a fool. Only a fool would make those kind of comments. Only a fool would give comments that could give aid and comfort to Israel's adversary. This is someone who cares not about the American people, not about the people

of Israel, but he cares about one person and one person only, the person he sees in the mirror when he wakes up in the morning. We cannot once again nominate a fool like this and get him anywhere near the presidency of the United States. And having a fool like Donald Trump, who would make those comments in the tone that he made them, is proven to folks that he has no business being president of the United States. You know, Mike Barnicle, earlier this week, you talked about how we're coming up on the 40th

anniversary of the commemoration, actually, a very sad date of over 200 Americans being blown up and killed by Hezbollah. Hezbollah continues their reign of terror. They're targeting of our allies. They're targeting of Americans. And here you have Donald Trump saying they're very smart, very, very smart people, just like he said about President Xi, just like he said about Kim Jong-un, just like he said. And he admitted he admitted that he got along better with authoritarians. Chris Christie saying what a lot of Republican voters are thinking. It's about time that you have Republican candidates that are coming out and actually calling Donald Trump what he is. Yeah, Joe, that anniversary, by the way, is October 23rd. It is coming up. The Marine Corps

barracks in Beirut blown up by Hezbollah. Very smart people, Hezbollah, according to the former president. The interesting thing about that is the root of why he says all of these things. And Jonathan just alluded to it a couple of minutes ago. It's always about someone saying something positive about Joe Biden, something positive about how Biden did something with Netanyahu, about how Biden did something positive for Israel and the people in Israel love President Biden. And it develops a tick in Donald Trump that he reverts to always himself, not the policy, not the dangers inherent in what's going on in Israel and the Middle East right now, always about himself. I mean, it's a disease that he carries. Jed, people even who love Trump through and through that comment last week about Hezbollah,

they went, oh, my God, like Hezbollah. And I just wonder if you think there's any impact. Again, the lead is massive inside the primary. When you go out there, is there any exhaustion, eye rolling, anything else among the voters? There I mean, I'm going to I'm going to non-Trump and non-Trump events. And there are there there is. And there I at one DeSantis event, somebody spoke up to say, like, what are we going to do about this? Why aren't you all taking him on more?

You have to be more vocal. Like, it's great that you spoke out about this comments. You have to be more vocal about the danger states representing or else none of you are going to win. And I think that, you know, they're all trying to defuse the bomb. Can we, because even as that, even in the DeSantis room and saying anything negative about Trump, you could feel the whole room tense up like, oh, you better not do this. It's like, you can't, you know, take the bomb apart without having it blow up on you.

And I just don't, you know, I don't see any, you know, all the candidates will tell you off camera, Republicans are with this. They're really not with him. And you're like, ma'am, sir, I'm sorry. Look at the polls. He's 40, 30 points up. Even, you know, his lowest margin is 30 points in Iowa. You know, there's what is the theory? Yeah, I mean, it's not even close right now. There is. I mean, it's we still have a couple of months left. You never know what's going to happen. It certainly looks like Donald Trump is moving towards the nomination, but we still have several months to go. So you take it a day at a time if you're a politician and you keep knocking on doors and you keep going to

town hall meetings and you keep hitting at the body. You keep going to the body, keep pounding it out day in and day out. And this Chris Christie ad, Jonathan LeMire, obviously is that. I want to, though, circle back to something that Mike said that is really just remarkable. All you have to do to get Donald Trump to say something nice about a terrorist group that kills Americans and kills Israelis is say something nice about Joe Biden. All you have to do is put up a billboard in Tel Aviv that says, thank you, Mr. President, with a picture of Joe Biden there and have other Israeli officials doing what officials of any country would do when the United States presents its strongest, most unambiguous support of Israel that I think we have ever seen. All you have to do is that

and have the United States president, the American president supporting Israel and Israel thanking that I think we have ever seen. All you have to do is that and have the United States president, the American president supporting Israel and Israel thanking them, and suddenly Donald Trump melts down and starts complimenting Hezbollah, a terror group that's on the cusp of invading Israel. That is how twisted this guy is.

And I must say how what is what's a kind of word? There isn't how lost the Republican base is for continuing to support a man this twisted that he would praise Hezbollah, China's communist leader, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un. Yeah, it's reflexive for Trump that if you say something nice about one of his opponents, he will go on the attack. I mean, Benjamin Netanyahu, while Trump was in office, Netanyahu couldn't have tried to cozy up further to Trump. But yet in Trump's mind, Netanyahu in recent months has done two unforgivable things.

He acknowledged that Joe Biden was lawfully elected and in recent days has thanked Joe Biden for his support and said he's done a good work, good job helping Israel in this crisis after the Hamas terror attacks. And we see this from Trump time and time again, that whether it's Biden or before that Obama, who frankly, in Trump's comments recently, it seems like at times he thinks he's running against Obama. He's obsessed. This time around, which, by the way, if it is Biden, Obama, if it is Trump, Obama, I like Trump's chances since Obama is constitutionally prevented from running again.

So actually, that's a bonus. Jonathan, have you gotten any insight? I know we saw Brian Kilmeade show last week. He once again confused Biden with Obama, said he was running against Obama. Have you talked to any of his people on the Trump team? What do they say about the fact that he continues to think he's running against a guy that hasn't been able to run for president for over a decade? As you might imagine, they deflect and try to point at Joe Biden, his age. They try to change the conversation.

But there is an understanding, though, that people I've talked to, they're willing to acknowledge that the former President Trump is under a lot of pressure right now. And I think that the court cases are adding up. And I think that we can put two and two together and suggest that that is playing a role here. But to your point of a moment ago, Joe, about how the Republican base just stays with them, you're right. There's still a long time before we see any voters cast their ballots. But not all these candidates have a lot of time because they're starting to run out of money. Tim Scott's super PAC has suspended its spending. He's in real trouble. There's a thought that he might not even make the next debate, which would be a problem. Ron DeSantis'

team, also really short on cash right now. His burn rate is off the charts. A lot of it's been on private jets for seemingly everyone involved. So that's seemingly a problem. Yes, Nikki Haley's done okay, but she, even Haley, who has the only momentum you could say out of coming those first two debates, she's still 30, 40 points behind. Mike Pence, another one, campaigned really in debt. There's thought that he may not make the neck much longer either. So the field is going to narrow quickly here unless something changes fast. All right. We're going to get back to this, but let's get to the speaker situation. Republican Congressman Jim Jordan is trying to rally support ahead of a planned vote today on the House floor for Speaker of the House,

set to take place at noon Eastern. Republican sources tell NBC News the Ohio lawmaker is within five to 10 Republican votes of securing the 217 needed to win the speakership. Axios reports at least four House Republicans who Jordan spoke with say they believe he he'll allow a floor vote on linking Ukraine funding with Israel funding if he wins the gavel. But a spokesperson for Jordan tells Axios he did not make any specific promises. You know, what's so fascinating about this, Willie, is that he was there on January 6th calling Donald Trump. He was there in the middle of all of this.

There's that famous moment where Liz Cheney is trying to leave the chamber as the mob is coming in real time as it's happening, as the mob is trying to kill them. And Jim Jordan tries to help her. And she says to Jim Jordan, get away from me. You effing did this. She said that in real time, just like everybody else understood. He was in the middle of January the 6th and in his own way responsible for it. And I cannot believe that Republicans from Biden districts would vote for this guy that's so

attached to trying to overthrow American democracy. It just goes to show you how far this party has fallen. Now they are poised and it looks like if it doesn't happen on the first vote or the first couple, it will happen eventually. Jim Jordan will be the speaker of the House of Representatives. As you say, not a passive observer on January 6th or the efforts around overturning the 2020 election. He was central to it. He was on the phone in the days before January 6th with Rudy Giuliani and the team that was scheming to overturn the election results. He texted on January 5th, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows offering a plan, a way that Mike Pence could, you know, hold up the results and not certify Joe Biden. He voted along with a whole bunch of other Republicans not to certify the results in a couple of states. The list goes

on and on and on. And now here we are, a guy who also, by the way, as the chair of the House Judiciary Committee, is helping to lead the idea that Joe Biden should be impeached with this inquiry and perhaps the things he did are somehow equal to what the former president did. So that's where we are. Let's bring congressional reporter for The Hill, Michael Schnell. Michael, good morning. So is this going to happen today? Will Jim Jordan be the speaker of the House? Look, Willie, right now, the question the answer to that question is a coin toss. Jim Jordan picked up significant momentum in his bid for the speakership yesterday. He flipped four key holdouts and a number of other lawmakers through their endorsement behind him.

But he's not out of the woods yet, because exiting a GOP conference meeting last night, a handful of Republicans, by my count, at least six, said that they plan to vote against against Jim Jordan on the floor today. They will not give Jim Jordan their support when that vote happens at noon. And look, this will all become a math problem for Jim Jordan. He needs that 217 votes on the floor to clinch the gavel. There's some reporting that Congressman Gus Bilirakis will miss the first vote this morning, today at noon. He's a Republican. That means that Jim Jordan will only be able to lose three votes, three Republican votes, and still clinch the gavel, assuming that all other lawmakers are present, voting for a candidate, and that Democrats are fully in support of Hakeem Jeffries, which, of course, is widely expected to happen. So right now, it's going to be a photo finish

for Jim Jordan when that vote hits the floor at noon today, because he doesn't have the votes as things stand. So, Michael, talk, if you would, a little bit about these moderates who are in districts that Joe Biden won. I'm thinking about people like Mike Lawler here in the state of New York who are going to be put in the position to vote or not to vote for a man who's trying to impeach Joe Biden, the man who won their districts, a man who participated in the attempted coup against the United States government in 2020. How difficult a vote is this and how does Jim Jordan win their vote eventually? Yeah, it's sort of toying with two different ideas, Willie. On one hand, this is a tough vote for those Biden district Republicans because

Jim Jordan is a hardline conservative. He's the founding chairman of the conservative House Freedom Caucus. He has this history of being a bomb thrower in Congress, forcing shutdowns. You mentioned his involvement with January 6th. That is all a key concern for some of these Biden district Republicans. But on the other hand, if they vote against him, they are letting this paralysis in the House continue. Withholding support from Jim Jordan means he won't get the 217 needed. And as a result, you know, legislative business can't continue on the floor. The Congress can't work towards averting a shutdown or sending aid to Israel. Look, I spoke to a number of those Biden district Republicans yesterday, including Mike Lawler, including Don Bacon. They are both planning

on supporting Kevin McCarthy on the floor today for at least the first ballot, which just goes to show that, look, Jim Jordan is a difficult candidate for some of these Biden district Republicans to support. And as a result, they're going in a different direction. It's set up to be a wild day today on Capitol Hill. That first vote is scheduled anyway for noon. Congressional reporter for The Hill, Michael Schnell. Michael, thanks as always, John. I would add in as well, when the January 6th committee was doing its work, it subpoenaed Jim Jordan. He refused to answer the subpoena and sit and talk about his role in the attempted. Yeah, I can't be said enough. His role on on January 6th and how though his position, his election is far from certain today. White House obviously bracing for

what could be a rocky road ahead if he were to become a speaker. So, Jen, let's just pause it like he's a problematic candidate. This is, I'd say most people think bad for America that he's going to be speaker, but potentially a political opportunity for Democrats as they're looking to try to seize the House again next year. I mean, Speaker Jim Jordan, that is not, you know, it's not like assuring a Democratic House, but it is certainly the next step on the path to a Democratic House. That to have not just, I mean, they've kind of proven they can't govern, but then also someone who was a architect of the strategy behind January 6th as a Republican Speaker of the House, presumably going to have as hard of a time governing as McCarthy did. And if we're headed

for shutdowns, it is a, you know, it's a pretty tough path for the Republicans. Jen Palmieri, thank you very much for coming on this morning.