Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/18/24

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

VP Harris slams Trump for 'enemies within' comments

We're not going to be gaslighted on this. We remember Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade, and they did as he intended. Oh, you guys are at the wrong rally. No, I think you meant to go to the smaller one down the street. That's pretty good. Vice President Kamala Harris responding to anti-abortion protesters yesterday in Wisconsin. It was at one of three stops for her across that key battleground state.

We'll have more from the campaign trail in just a moment. We'll also have more about her interview with Fox News, including how many more people tuned in for her very revealing sit down with Brett Baer compared to Donald Trump's town hall on the same network. Speaking of the former president, he was in New York yesterday for a charity dinner that is traditionally attended by both presidential candidates. But he spent part of his day on social media, on his personal social media platform, obsessing over Kamala Harris's interview with 60 Minutes, an interview he refused to do. Also ahead, Elon Musk was in Pennsylvania yesterday pushing debunked and dangerous conspiracy theories about election fraud. We'll play for you those comments and we'll have the latest out of the Middle East following an operation that killed Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar.

Admiral James Tavridis and Richard Haass will join us with their expert insight on this developing situation. This has major implications for the world. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, October 18th. We begin on the campaign trail where Vice President Kamala Harris made several stops in Battleground, Wisconsin yesterday. Here is some of what she had to say in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Donald Trump was at a Univision town hall where a voter asked him about January 6th. Okay, so now we here know January 6th was a tragic day. It was a day of terrible violence. There were attacks on law enforcement.

140 law enforcement officers were injured. Some were killed. And what did Donald Trump say last night about January 6th? He called it a quote, that everyone here knows. The American people are exhausted with his gaslighting. Exhausted with his gaslighting. Enough! We are ready to turn the page. And then consider the comments that he made just in the last few days. Because he just, he's got more.

He said he will target and punish those who disagree with him or refuse to bend to his will. He calls these Americans the enemy within and says that he would use the American military to go after American citizens. Journalists whose stories he doesn't like. nonpartisan election officials who refuse to cheat by finding a few extra votes for him, judges who insist on following the law instead of following him. All right, let's bring in the host of way too early White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kay, NBC News, national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at Puck, John Heilman and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson. So where to begin? John Heilman, I'll start with you. And then I do want to get to Fox News and an update that is even more revealing than interview itself on the Kamala Harris interview with Brett Baier. But how how is she looking on the campaign trail in terms of her ability to keep the energy up and also to keep the fire at Donald Trump in terms of exactly what he's doing that she

considers to be a danger? Mika, I would say that the thing that we were hearing from the peanut gallery and from the Democratic, I guess what David Plouffe would call the bedwetting caucus about a week ago, which was why is she not doing enough? Where is she? Why is she not out there? She's not doing enough interviews. She's not doing enough campaign events. Whatever the merits of those comments a week ago, you're not hearing them now. And I think the combination of the two weeks now of solid media engagement across the range of mainstream, the things that everyone in the Washington, the Beltway kind of establishment media wants her to do, whether it's like thing

like 60 Minutes or go on Fox News. She did those things. She went to the Charlemagne, the God she's done. Call her daddy. She's done every possible outlet that you could do in the alternative media or the non-mainstream media. We're still waiting for her to go on Joe Rogan. I don't have an update on whether she's going to do that or not, although that was one thing that the campaign was pursuing for various reasons that have to do with the target groups that are left for her. But she has had this full court media assault and has come through it in some cases having done exceptionally well, in some cases having done just fine. And now she seems to be full bore out of the campaign trail. And you saw her in that Wisconsin clip that we played, a couple of them very strong in terms of her energy. But also,

I don't know how long she's been cooking up that you're at the wrong rally. Oh, my God. The smaller one up the street. I have no idea whether that came to her in the moment or whether she's been waiting for a while to drop that on a heckler. But, man, that's a that's a world class. That's a world class torching. That was fantastic. And of course, Donald Trump would say that the person should be beat up. So it's a good contrast as well. And I think establishing the contrast is so important here. And Jonathan Lemire, the contrast is in exactly what John Howman was saying. I mean, while Kamala Harris is blanketing swing states with appearance, five appearances a day,

three rallies in a day. I mean, this is as energetic as it gets. And it's pretty positive in terms of tone, but also very, very a big warning as much as she can to Americans about what's at stake here. On the other hand, former President Donald Trump appears to be canceling every interview that has any slight possibility of holding him to account. Yeah, I was in Washington the last couple of days, Mika, speaking to senior Democrats and Harris allies, and a number of them concede that the slower pace of her schedule there for a few weeks, that was a mistake. But they have they've corrected it in a significant way. And she's been out there barnstorming, hitting the campaign trail, three events in Wisconsin yesterday, doing these media interviews. And they are thrilled with the fallout from the Fox News interview.

They think that she showed real strength there the the way, and we're going to get into it, but the way she tussled back with Brett Baier, called him out on the selective edit, they think that that really played well. And there are a lot of people watching that, including women watching that, who are going to really recognize that dynamic of Harris continually being interrupted, being not able to speak, and that's going to resonate with them. And they think she stood up to a bully in that moment and it's going to play well. As for Trump, yeah, he made an appearance at the Al Smith dinner last night and was decidedly not funny and turned it into a campaign rally. Harris opted to skip that.

She just sent a video message instead. But outside of that, his schedule has really shrunk. As you noted, he's canceled a series of interviews. He's also canceled some seemingly pretty easy events for him, including an appearance at an NRA convention in Georgia in a couple of days. That's been scrapped, too. So it seems like his team is really playing it, trying to play it safe right here, trying to run out the clock. And that's a mistake, I think, because polls suggest this is a complete toss up race. And Democrats, Mika, right now that I speak to the last couple of days feel a lot better about things. Yes, they know it's close, but they feel a lot better about things than they did two weeks

ago. They think Harris has room to grow here at the end in the closing weeks. Well, it turns out, I believe like eight million people watched the Fox interview. I've heard a number from seven million to eight point two. And they got to see everything all at once in one moment. I actually think it was one of a more important moment in political history, modern political history than we could have imagined when it actually happened. But as I look back at it, what she was able to do in that one moment when she called out Brett Baier for showing the wrong clip, for misleading the American people, she was able to point again to Donald Trump's threat to go after his political adversaries with the military and show how a friendly media network that bends to his will will play to him in even avoiding stories. So they show completely the wrong clip.

She calls him out on it. Now, let me just tell you from being in TV news all my life, local cable network, um, anybody at this table, I know the producers in the booth. If a clip, a clip runs and it's wrong, everybody knows it right away. It's like not the clip you're expecting. You know what you're expecting. And Brett Baer is really intelligent. I mean, they've got the best producers there, highest rated shows. They knew it was the wrong clip. And if they had even said something in the broadcast that they did 20 minutes later after the interview, that would have been reasonable. They waited a full day to tuck in to the end of Brett's show. Oh, by the way, I did make a mistake. I did not see the clip I was expecting. Here's the clip I was expecting.

Okay, moving on. And no one on the network has talked about the clip at all. All they've done is talk about how Kamala Harris is nasty. But they haven't talked about how she actually called out Fox News on Fox News for what they do, which is sometimes disinformation, depending on the show. But at other times, it's subtle like this, misleading the American public, moving things, avoiding the actual point of the story or just not covering it. And in this case, it was all revealed in one moment by the candidate who was in the hot seat during a contentious interview. And yet she noticed the clip was wrong. He didn't. I am absolutely certain he knew it was the wrong clip and he should have said it right away. So, Jean, your new column in The Washington Post is titled Harris ought to send Brett Baer flowers for that Fox News interview.

I agree. Tell us more. No, absolutely. Because what and what an opportunity she had. It was a moment there was potential great peril there for her in going on that interview with Fox News. And and there was also a potential big upside, and I think she got all the upside she possibly could have gotten and more. First of all, she got to present herself as she is, not as the caricature that Fox viewers have been told she is since she got in the race or even before she's not

this sort of empty vacuous uh shell uh who speaks only in word salad in fact um she is a a forceful uh really informed uh public servant who has command of the issues, who doesn't back down from anybody, and who was able to not just sort of stand up to what a lot of people saw as bullying, but snap back at it and call it out. The video we just showed, I don't know if we can put it up again, but it's really important because that is such an important moment. She's telling him, you've got the wrong clip. Look at him. He's not owning up to it. He's hoping that she'll get really angry. But the thing is, they have shown the wrong clip and he's not saying to his viewers, you're right. That was the wrong clip. Let's get the right clip prepared or let's find it and let's show it.

And instead, he moves on and leaves it hanging there. And I'm sorry. that is what they do. And I'm really glad that 8.2 million Americans had a chance if they wanted it. And a lot of people can't be moved, but had a chance to see what they do in real time. I'll let you continue with your point. You've got a lot. That's absolutely right. That's that's another that was a huge benefit that she got out of this interview that I didn't see coming, which was exposing what Fox News does. And that was on Fox News. I thought that was incredible. The other thing she got to do is to explain, yes, she does have policies. The Fox viewers have been told over and over again that, oh, she doesn't have any policies. Who is she? What is she about? What does she want to do?

She got to talk about what she will do as president of the United States and her economic programs. And oh, by the way, you might not have heard that all the national security officials who work for Donald Trump are all opposing him this time around because they think he's so dangerous. And oh, by the way, I just came from an event with 100 Republicans who are crossing party lines to vote for me instead of Donald Trump. She got to put facts into the the the right wing media bubble, which believes in alternative facts.

And I thought that was really significant. It's like putting a virus into that machine. And so all in all, I thought it was she got more out of it than than she could have possibly hoped. Yeah. And also as a service, actually. So another person having huge rallies is Katty Kay abroad. And Katty, we want to talk to you about that coming up. We've got to get to the major developing news out of the Middle East. But I cannot wait to hear about how folks abroad are looking at this election. But we turn now to the major development out of the Middle East and the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. Yesterday, Israeli Defense Forces

posted this on social media, announcing they've eliminated the head of the terrorist organization. Israeli troops found Sinwar by chance in southern Gaza on Wednesday, ending a year-long search for the man believed to be the architect of the October 7th attack. Officials say troops were patrolling an area of Rafah when they noticed three terrorists fleeing from house to house. The two sides then engaged in gunfire and all three militants were killed. It was only then that Israeli forces suspected one of those terrorists might be Yahya Sinwar. The IDF later ran DNA tests to confirm his identity. NBC News correspondent Hala Gharani has more on this from Tel Aviv.

We have new details about the operation that led to the killing of Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas. We were briefed by Daniel Hagari, one of the spokespeople for the Israeli military. He showed and projected drone video showing the last moments of Yahya Sinwar sitting slumped in a big chair in a bombed-out house. The drone captured images of him. He appeared injured. He threw a piece of wood at the drone as it was flying, as it was coming close to him in that building.

And then we understand, according to Hagari, that Israeli forces fired at the building, killing the individual. It is only the following day that Israeli forces conducted a sweep of the area and realized that the man that they had killed looked, according to the soldiers on the ground, a lot like Yahya Sinwar. They identified him through fingerprints and dental records. They had all this information about Yahya Sinwar, because this is a man who had spent 22 years in Israeli prison and was released only in 2011.

Two other people were also killed. We don't know what their names are or what ranks they held within Hamas. Now, the hostage families have reacted. Of course, they are hoping that this development will bring them closer to the day. They are reunited with their loved ones. And Palestinians as well inside the Gaza Strip. One of our teams caught up with ordinary Palestinians in the besieged enclave. They, too, were hoping that the fact that Yahya Senwar is now dead means that perhaps the end of the war is near. But the Israeli prime minister has said that that is not the case, that, in fact, the war will continue with full force until all the hostages are

released. Let's bring in President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass. He's the author of the weekly newsletter, Home and Away, available on Substack. And former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four-star Navy Admiral James Tavridis. He's chief international analyst for NBC News. Where to begin, Admiral? I guess I'll start with you. If you could talk about the implications and moving forward, what happens? Well, first and foremost, a very good day in the world of counterterrorism. Yahya Sinwar has significant blood on his hands, not just Israeli, but also for

Americans. And I, for one, salute the Israeli defense forces on a signal victory. I have heard and I agree with the comparisons to taking out Osama bin Laden. It's really at that level within the context of the Middle East. Point two to be made is I am hopeful that this opens some new possibilities for a ceasefire. I think we heard already from the prime minister of Israel that perhaps the war will simply continue as it is. Let us hope that there can be a path to ceasefire, calming the situation in Gaza. Hamas is effectively broken as an organization. Their ideology will perhaps continue on. I think, frankly, in the end, many of the Palestinians in Gaza will be happy to see the back of Yair Sinwar. And then third and finally, from a U.S. perspective, this is the moment for the Biden

administration, my view, to redouble their efforts at the ceasefire piece of this. I think it's a given that Israel will continue combat north in Hezbollah territory. But I think there there is a possibility here. I don't want to state it. Don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But let us hope there can be some some life breathed into the ceasefire. Richard, Tom Friedman has reporting on a kind of on Tony Blinken's efforts with other Arab countries to get to the day after and what that would look like in Gaza, including some kind of pan-Arab security force based in the Strip. How does the killing of Yahya Sinwa make that more or less likely? And what do you think the kind of time frame for that might be? Well, it's up to essentially the Israelis whether it's more likely. Whether

you have a ceasefire or not, that takes both Hamas and Israel to do. It takes two to tango or to stop dancing. And it's not clear that you'll have the leadership on Hamas' side to make such a choice. It's not clear whether Israel would accept it. But to go to the aftermath, that's something that can be done a bit more with U.S. leadership. And I would actually say this is a moment to think big. That the United States, working with the UAE, with Saudi Arabia, with Egypt, now ought to press

very hard for bringing in an Arab stabilization force into Gaza and call upon Israel to introduce, at long last, a political component that they've been, that they've refused to introduce, to essentially say, we're prepared to participate

in the process that includes the Palestinian Authority or revamp Palestinian Authority. No one's asking anyone to sign on to a two-state solution today, but to at least begin a credible process enough that does two things. It gets an Arab stabilization force to enter Gaza, so you have some security and governance. And by the way, this would not be peacekeeping. This would potentially have to fight off Hamas remnants. And to begin a conversation with Palestinians, the way to defeat Hamas is not just with a gun. They've got to be marginalized. You've got to show Palestinians there's an alternative and better path for them to secure some of their future. And that's something only Israel can introduce by introducing a political component to its policy.

So, Admiral, to Richard's point, I have some new reporting this morning. The White House certainly sees this as an opportunity. At minimum, they hope the de-escalation of the fighting. And yes, but they want, they feel like they can perhaps get back to that ceasefire for hostage release deal, thinking that now that with Sinoir's death, that'll placate some of the extreme forces in Netanyahu's government who just who just want to continue the bombardment. Maybe this gives momentum to those there who say, look, we can start easing up. Let's get these hostages home.

My question to you is, do we think Netanyahu is going to listen? I am not sure if he will, simply because there is a certain level of momentum and vested interest on the part of Bibi Netanyahu for the conflict to continue. It pushes off the inevitable investigation into what happened on October 7th, a massive failure of his government intelligence and defense. And secondly, he has his own legal challenges. All that comes back into the spotlight if the war diminishes. So he will have to, in my view, look hard in the mirror and make the right choice for the state of Israel. Let's hope he does so. I do want to make one additional point. We're talking a lot about the Israelis and the Palestinians in Washington. There's another

actor here, of course, and that would be Tehran. What are the Iranians going to do? They're kind of reeling at the moment, watching Hamas severely degraded, Hezbollah in the process of being degraded, massive strikes in Yemen by long range U.S. strategic bombers against the Houthis. So, yes, Tehran is feeling the incoming, as would say in the military world. But they make no mistake, they will be involved in these decisions. And we ought to watch that flank of the conversation as well. Richard, I want to show you someone on a completely different topic, what could be by all indications someone who's, let's put it this way, not on the side of America. Donald Trump is continuing with claims about Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

I want to show you what he said on a podcast yesterday. Take a listen. I think Zelensky is one of the greatest salesmen I've ever seen. Every time he comes in, we give him $100 billion. Who else got that kind of money in history? There's never been. And that doesn't mean I don't want to help him because I feel very badly for those people. But he should never have let that war start.

That war is a loser. Ukraine, remember, is not Ukraine anymore. Every city almost is knocked down to the ground. All those beautiful golden domes are laying on their side, smashed to smithereens. Richard, take it away the idea that selensky quote-unquote let that war begin uh that's i've heard of rewritings of history this was a war shall we say that was made in moscow uh ukraine ukraine has fought bravely now for two and a half years, close to fighting Russia to a standstill, despite the disparity between the two societies and military. If Donald Trump were to be elected, if he really wants the war to end, the only way he could make it end would be by supporting

Zelensky against Putin to eventually persuade, essentially persuade Putin that time is not on his side. If Vladimir Putin concludes that the West won't support Ukraine, then Putin has no incentive to compromise. If, however, it's clear the United States will support Ukraine militarily and will allow Ukraine to attack certain targets within Russia that have been off-limits, essentially the cost of the war comes to Russia. The future doesn't promise what Mr. Putin wanted. And that sets the stage for a negotiation. Donald Trump says he wants to be a dealmaker. Again, if he

were to be elected, the only way he could be a dealmaker on terms that would not undermine the West would be to be much more supportive of Ukraine. And if Vice President Harris is the next president, again, there I think you'll have a clear commitment to Ukraine. And it does potentially set the stage. So 2025 or 2026, the emphasis begins to shift away from the battlefield to the negotiating table. But for that to happen successfully, there's got to be conditions on the battlefield that, again, persuade really both sides that they're not going to realize their aims militarily. They've got to reemphasize or introduce the diplomatic dimension. So President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass, thank you very much. And retired four-star Navy Admiral James Stavridis, thank you as well.

His new book, The Restless Wave, is out now. We appreciate your both coming on this morning. I don't have any more elections I'll be involved with, and I'm too old to gild a lily. Heck, I'm only two months younger than Donald Trump. But, good news for you is I will not spend 30 minutes swaying back and forth with you. I've played enough music I will not clap off beat. Nor will I pretend to be a conductor. Because we've got a race to win and we have to win it. Wow, that was a great way at getting at the age issue. Former President Clinton at a rally in North Carolina yesterday, mocking former President Trump's recent town hall, where he bizarrely asked for music to be played

for nearly 30 minutes while he swayed along. I watched that town hall. It was really hot in there and they had two medical emergencies, but then they had time to continue and he just shut down. He shut down like emotionally from Kristi Noem on stage, kind of wanted nothing to do with her and just swayed to the music angry, I guess, and he didn't like what was happening. So he just shut down. Bill Clinton was campaigning with Governor Tim Walz, who criticized Republican Senator J.D. Vance for admitting he doesn't believe Trump lost the 2020 election. Walz then slammed Trump for pretending to understand

what it's like to be a working class American. If you remember back a couple of weeks ago, we had a little debate in New York City and I asked the simplest question that you could ever be asked as an American. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election? Pretty simple. Every court in the land, every person knows this. And on that night, I got kind of a smug non-response to it that, oh, Tim, we're thinking about the future or something like that. Well, yesterday they just start saying the quiet stuff outside. He got asked about it yesterday and he said, no, Donald Trump did not lose the 2020

election. Now, the job that we're asking for to serve the American public, we don't serve an individual. We serve the Constitution and the people of the United States. That's who we serve. I'm going to be generous. We are all products of our past. When you grow up a middle class kid in Oakland or in Butte, Nebraska, you care about Social Security. You care about these things.

When you're sitting down in Mar-a-Lago and you tell your rich friends, you're rich as hell, I'm going to give you a tax cut, it doesn't matter to them. And you know what? When my mom looks for that Social Security deposit to be made in her bank account, that's how she's going to feed herself. That's how she's going to get things done. He doesn't give a damn if his Social Security check comes or not. So let's be very clear. If any of our relatives or anyone gives us this, if they tell us, well, Donald Trump's understand us, that's bull. He does not understand. He does not understand.

Wow. Pitch to working class Americans to the point about the 2020 election. That's if you are a member of Trump TV and you're watching it, they will tell you that question doesn't matter anymore. They will also tell you, and I'm quoting, that the folks who were convicted on January 6th were not insurrectionists. It was not an insurrection. And if you pursue that topic, they will say, and I quote here, oh, keep playing the January 6th card. Very flip about pretty important moments in our nation's history and a decision that has to be made about the direction that we want to go. Joining us now, we have the host of the podcast On Brand with Donny Deutsch, Donny Deutsch and president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton.

And Reverend Al, we'll start with you. I hear you have news, some announcements to make. Well, yes, we are on this Sunday. We're on Saturday and Sunday. But this Sunday, my guest will be Vice President Kamala Harris. I'm meeting her in Atlanta after she goes to church with Governor Walz. And we're going to sit down and have a conversation as she begins her closing arguments, talking about what is going on in terms of the election, how she feels now, talking about the need to get voting

turnout, talking about the issue that has been raised about her with black men, and also what she would do as president now that we see Sanwa killed in the Middle East. How would she try to bring this to a ceasefire? I think people have underestimated and undercovered how she's operated on the international stage with President Biden sending her out. And I want to get her view on how she would deal with this crisis as president. Now that we have the head leader of Hamas killed, is this an opportunity to get Netanyahu to move toward the peace table and a ceasefire? So we're going to talk about several things on Politics Nation Sunday at five o'clock Eastern time. Certainly the Harris advisors in the White

House would think a ceasefire would be a gift to her team between now and Election Day. It remains unclear whether Netanyahu will go along with that. We'll certainly look forward to that interview, Rev. Donnie, let's let's talk about where things stand right now with up front. The race is close. It's basically a tie. But there does seem to be some slight shifts in momentum. A few weeks ago, Democrats, you heard it, I heard it, we reported it, really nervous about Harris.

She's not doing enough, she's not out there, she's not campaigning, she's not doing interviews. That's all changed. The media blitzed and she's barnstorming across the country. Now it's Trump who's the one who has really pulled back, canceling interviews left and right. And there seems to be a new sense of unease coming from his inner circle. It is interesting. Exactly as you said, you feel the campaign, it's within the 48 yard lines, obviously, but you feel it going like this. In the last few days, as Trump has kind of

disappeared or at best, you know, sways to music, you got to ask the question, is there something wrong with him? I mean, he really seems to have kind of just literally backed off. He canceled NBC. He didn't do 60 Minutes. He's probably canceling it down a hole. He seems to be trying to round the clock, and that's dangerous news. On the other hand, obviously, Kamala, in the last few days, we've seen her do her media blitz. We saw her yesterday, fantastic, at a few different rallies. And obviously, it's going to come down to the wire. But it does feel like something the last couple of days have shifted a little bit. And just my message to the vice president is just keep punching. People want to see strength. I know the joy thing was kind of OK for a while. Joy is great. But strength and power and aggressiveness, I think, is what she needs right now.

Katty Kay, I want to get to your events abroad that have everything to do with this election in terms of the interest that you were getting from people. Tell us what this was, how many people showed up and what did they ask you? Yeah, so Anthony Scaramucci and I, I mean, isn't that crazy? This is 13,000 people, 13,000 people turned up to listen to two hours of talking about politics in the U.S. election. This was in London this week. We had events in Glasgow, Manchester, Cardiff, London. It was the same everywhere. The level of interest, I mean, people are always around the world interested in American elections, but there is a different quality to the level of interest this time. And the questions we were getting, I mean, some of them super detailed questions about which counties in Pennsylvania

they should be watching. I think these people know more than is good for them about the U.S. election, the mechanics of it. But really, the sort of bottom line was, what does it mean for the United States and for democracy in general if Donald Trump is reelected? And that is the real concern. The interest in January the 6th and whether that is an issue in this campaign and whether we're going to see more violence. So we were taking questions from these audiences, a lot of questions about whether this is going to be a peaceful transfer of power. If Donald Trump loses, what does he do afterwards if there is more violence? And how are the other thing that people are interested in is how are foreign nations sowing chaos in America? And why is not more being done to stop that?

So, I mean, just there's always interest. I was blown away. I mean, you know, Taylor Swift filled the O2 stadium. Listen, I mean, a politics conversation on the U.S. election filling the O2 stadium. It was wild. It was super, super fun. But also kind of it was salutary to go abroad at this moment in the campaign and realize how seriously people are taking this. Now, there's so much at stake for our allies around the world. And that's that's an example right there. I mean, look at that incredible crowd.

Wow. That is amazing, Katty. I want to turn to John Heilman and ask him about this, because former President Trump wants President Biden to return to the race and become the Democratic nominee. In a Truth Social post yesterday, Trump wrote in part, quote, Kamala should be investigated and forced off the campaign. And Joe Biden allowed to take back his rightful place. He got 14 million primary votes. She got none. It all stems from the vice president's recent interview with 60 Minutes and Trump's false claims the program edited the sit down to Harris's benefit. Those comments come after Trump backed out of a scheduled interview with the outlet due to 60 Minutes saying that they would indeed fact check him and that CBS News would not issue an apology to him for his 2020 interview.

And this is the thing. When you're choosing news sources, there are some that will check facts and make sure the facts are good and tell you if they've made a mistake in real time so that you understand the full context. And there are some that won't. John Hammond, what do you make of Trump's comments about Biden and also this narrative that they're weaving about Kamala Harris not being chosen? Well, Mika, I think any of us who have had the experience of visiting a elderly, failing relative or parent in like an assisted living facility um you occasionally will find uh those them and their and their and their fellow assisted living facility residents

it lost in reverie they kind of think back to the good old days they sometimes can't kind of lose track of where they are uh in time they they may be 80 years old but for periods of time they imagine they're still 40 and they kind of get lost in that dream space. Donnie, this happens with Donnie on a regular basis. And I think that's what we really see with Donald Trump is we see, you know, he's still not gotten over the fact that the good old days for him, the best of times, those moments were when he still had Joe Biden, when he was still on the fast track to winning this election easily. And the closer we get to Election Day and the closer we get to whatever reality is going to befall him,

the more we see child Trump's lapse into those kind of nostalgic reveries. I you know, this is not the race that he spent four years wanting to run and he can't let go of it. So, Rev, let me real quick make it just also on this theme, Donnie, let's get you in on this. The playbook just now talks about how Trump's been canceling interviews and they've got reporting that he was in a sit down conversation with a podcast called The Shade. And the people at the podcast say that the reason why Trump's campaign said he'd have to cancel it was indeed exhaustion, which is the Trump campaign now disputes. But they have multiple sources saying that's why they were told they can't do it. I think people should

really focus on his kind of state, state of strength, state of weakness, state of well-being, state of non-well-being. Something's off. Something is off. He's really, you know, he's addicted to crowds. He's addicted to media. And he's pulling back. So they're seeing something internally and they're feeling something. And I think the spotlight should be on that. I think it's been clear for those of us that have known

and dealt with Donald Trump pro and con for years that he is really, in many ways, not the Donald Trump that we fought or that we dealt with. No energy there, no sound bites that make sense. He's lost it. And I think that it's almost like pushing an old boxer back in the ring that you know he can't fight, but just tell him to hold on to the 10th round. And they're trying to make him hold on. And he just doesn't

have it. He's sitting in the stool saying, I don't want to go back out there. I mean, last night, his appearance at the Alfred E. Smith dinner was ridiculous. It was offensive and it was way off the mark. And I think that him canceling the shade is in many ways saying there's a shade on his whole campaign. All right. Welcome back to Morning Joe in Georgia. Now, a judge there is overturning multiple controversial election rules set by the state's Republican control election board. The rules that included empowering local officials to investigate supposed irregularities and required new identification

for delivering absentee ballots, among other things, had been slammed as bureaucratic overreach. Republicans in the state have already said they plan to appeal the ruling. Joining us now, former litigator and MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin and former U.S. attorney and MSNBC legal analyst Joyce Vance. She is a co-host of the Sisters in Law podcast, which I love. Joyce, I'll start with you with what is going on in Georgia and what are the bigger implications? Are people going to start hearing these stories and think their vote's not going to count?

So that's exactly the risk here, and possibly that's the plan. There are a variety of attacks underway on Georgia's elections. Many of them are coming from within. For instance, one of the cases, Adams, was filed by one of the superintendents who's charged with counting and protecting and certifying Georgia's elections. And so far, the courts have been resilient, giving a firm message back that says, we mean it when we say you can't make changes to these elections too close to election day, because that would cause chaos. So look, Mika, the real risk here is that voters will hear some of these stories, see

about the 120 plus lawsuits that the RNC has filed nationwide, and they'll begin to question the integrity of our elections. And the answer is this. Our elections are conducted across the country in a very decentralized way by highly trained, dedicated people, many of them volunteers. And in state after state, we've seen officials say we've looked at our machinery, we've conducted our training. We are confident in the process. And that's the message Americans should take away, not these lawsuits, raising claims that aren't true that end up being

rejected by the courts. But that, of course, takes a little bit of time. So, Lisa, let's get your analysis here on the rulings, decisions yesterday and also what it means for voters in just a few weeks time. Well, I would say, John, one of the things it means for voters is a restoration of the status quo. In other words, before the Georgia election board sought fit to alter the election rules, people should have felt secure that their votes were going to count, and they should still feel secure that their votes are going to count because the ruling, you know, there are a series of rulings in Georgia this week. Joyce was talking about one of them. There's another one that invalidated seven different rules of the Georgia election board.

And one of the things that the judge is trying to make clear is only the state legislature has the power to change the time, place and manner for electing federal officials. They can't delegate that to something like the Georgia election board. And the Georgia election board overstepped. They overreached when they tried to change the rules of the game, not only so late in the game, but even if they had done this two to three years ago, by his reasoning, this wouldn't have been permissible. I have a question for Joyce, which is, are Republicans and the plaintiffs in these cases, are they going to appeal? And is there

any possibility that this ruling, for example, could be reversed before the election? Sure. So I think we'll absolutely see these appeals take place. That's always part of the strategy when you litigate this close to Election Day. Part of that process involves trying to get last ditch appeals through. But we're now too close to the election, Jean, for that to happen. We've already seen DOJ step in in two states, in Alabama and Virginia, where the state was trying to remove voters from the election rolls, claiming some of those people might be noncitizens who weren't eligible to vote.

It turned out in Alabama, we've already had a quick ruling forcing the state to restore those voters to active voter status because it turns out they are eligible to vote. And so increasingly, the appellate courts will say it's too late for these pre-election measures to change the rules on the ground. But of course, that doesn't mean there won't be litigation after the election, too. And Americans need to understand that that's the strategy, going to the courts to challenge. Some challenges are legitimate. Candidates are entitled to ask

for vote counts if they think an election is close and there might be a problem. That goes on all the time and that's fine. But what we shouldn't take away from any of this is that there's a fundamental problem with our elections because there isn't. Every American will be able to vote and have their vote counted and the courts will step in to protect that. Lisa, let's talk about what's going on in the in the check-in court here, where the Trump team tried to block some evidence from coming into the public purview. And the judge basically very quickly said, no, that evidence is coming out from the appendix and in the Smith and the Smith filing. Talk a little bit about what we might be likely to see there. You know, I'm not sure, John, how much we're going to see there, because the Department of Justice was very plain in saying they want to protect witnesses.

For example, to the extent that somebody has given testimony that's non-public we're not likely to see the substance of that testimony beyond the way in which it's been quoted in the brief already how much will we see today that's unclear my own expectations are fairly low on the other hand you have the Trump team fighting tooth and nail to prevent this disclosure they got their ruling last Thursday. They asked for more time to evaluate their litigation options. Then they waited until the 11th hour. And instead of trying to get a ruling from an appeals court, which they didn't have the right to do,

their only real option was to ask Judge Chutkan, as they did yesterday, continue this stay through November 14th. So you have to ask yourself, why are they fighting so hard if what we're about to see isn't really all that surprising? There's probably something in there that they don't want the voting public to know about or see in a more fulsome way. So I'll be looking forward to flipping through those 1600 plus pages later today. Wow. Thank you for doing that. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin and former U.S. attorney Joyce V Wow. Thank you for doing that. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin and former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance. Thank you both very much for explaining that all. And still ahead on Morning Joe, we're now getting an inside look into what's happening with Vice President Kamala Harris transition team and the names being floated for a potential position in her administration.

Plus we'll bring you the latest following the death of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and speak with State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller to explain the significance of this moment and what it could mean for the war in Gaza. Morning Joe will be right back.