Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/19/22

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Rubio and Demings spar over inflation and abortion in fiery Florida Senate debate

The senator who has never run anything at all but his mouth. The senator has obviously resorted to lying, cheating, and trying to steal. Senator, how gullible do you really think Florida voters are? Senator, you're repeating yourself again. We've seen this show before. Socialists, socialists, crazy, Marxists, silly. That must be on your list for your talking points. Nationalists, crazy, Marxists, silly. But which one is your preferred? That must be on your list for your talking points.

Look, the senator can play national security expert all he wants. I know he needs that for his next presidential run. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what you mean by play national security expert. I'm the vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee and was the previous chairman of it. So it's actually my job. Some of the highlights from last night's fiery Senate debate in Florida as Marco Rubio's Democratic challenger, Val Demings, went on the attack. We're going to play more from the debate and Congresswoman Demings will be our guest this morning. Plus, the special master in the Trump documents case has a question for Donald Trump and his legal team.

Where's the beef? That is a direct quote from. He literally said that. I know. The judge responding to a recent request from the former president. Also, possible new evidence that undermines Trump's claim that none of the material seized from Mar-a-Lago was classified. More on the audio that proves Trump knew that his letters to the leader of North Korea were top secret. That's a big story we're covering this morning. Because he said, hey, Bob, that's a really top secret. Don't tell anybody about it. Don't tell anybody, yeah.

Also, another loss for the Trump-era probe and the origins of the Russia investigation. Is this finally the end for the investigation that Trump and his supporters claimed would uncover a sweeping conspiracy against him? A lot to get to this morning. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It lot to get to this morning. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, October 19th. It is. And look at Will. He's got this shine about him.

Well, he's just put together. We just roll into the studio. It's a mess. The Yankees. Look at Will. What about the Yankees? A big win yesterday. Well, a huge win last night against the Guardians.

5-1 was the final score, as we predicted on the show yesterday. Nasty Nestor Cortez, big game pitcher, stepped up and did the job. Got on the board early. The Yankees did a three-run home run from Stanton, and then Judge hit one out later. You see Gleyber Torres on the last side of the game rocking the baby, which was a theme last night. You remember the Guardians hitter who hit a home run

a couple games ago and sort of taunted the Yankees with a rock the baby move. And the fans let him have it all night. The players let him have it, let him know that they didn't like that. And they took it out on the game last night. And now we officially, Joe, become America's team because we go into Houston tonight for game one of the ALCS to take on the cheating Astros.

Listen, it's an uphill climb. They've got Hall of Fame talent. They've got Verlander pitching tonight. And when you put that together with unapologetic, rampant, systematic cheating, boy, that is a heck of a mountain to climb. Will it come? Willed into the emergency room. He. Yeah, unbelievable. We've we've lost Joe and Micah, Joe and Mika's mics there for a second as you watch the yankees celebrate it was a brief celebration on the field last night because they got to hop on the plane

and they did a couple hours after the game to get to houston i think we have joe and mika back guys you there yeah i was yeah i was just i was in the middle of telling a story i mean i i never tell a story and i was about to tell a story i don't i don and I tell a story being censored. I don't I don't know why we're being censored. But no, I mean, the Yankees right now, they're America's team. It's like after Reagan got shot, he got wheeled into the emergency room. He looked up at the doctors and he said, I hope you're Republicans. And he said, Mr. President, today, we're all Republicans. Well, today, we're all Yankees fans.

And what about, I don't know, these Phillies? They may be looking like a team of destiny. You know, we had Kyle Schwarber last year, but he was too good. So the Red Sox decided not to re-sign him because we were like, we don't want any of that around Boston. And you know another thing he had going against him? Not only he was good, everybody loved him. The fans loved him.

They loved him inside the locker room. Why in the world would Boston want to keep that guy? Well, last night against the Phillies, Schwarber doing what Schwarber does in October, absolutely crushing the baseball. And the Phillies, my God, there's Harper. But the Phillies, this is a team that beat the Cardinals. Then, I mean, beat the Braves.

And now going into San Diego, and there's Schwarber taking charge. Yeah, he had won 488 feet last night, did Schwarber. It's just an absolute bomb. You saw that stunned look on Bryce Harper's face in the dugout as he watched it fly into the upper deck. Couldn't believe how hard he hit it. Yeah, you're right, Joe. This is one of those teams, and we've seen them over history. This Phillies team, you didn't think about them a whole lot during the regular season. They finished in third place in their division because the Braves and the Mets were so good, both winning more than 100 games. And they quietly kind of sneaked their way into the playoffs.

And now they're just on this run, winning game one of the NLCS last night in San Diego. Zach Wheeler pitched an incredible game. Seven innings, only gave up one hit. They do have that feel of one of those teams that's making an incredible run, maybe all the way to the World Series. Yeah. All right. Let's get to our top story this morning. It is bad news for Donald Trump saying the quiet part out loud. But at this point, I think it's the DOJ that actually hears the quiet part out loud instead of desensitized Republicans.

Donald Trump has claimed since the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago that none of the material seized was sensitive. Not only is that untrue, but according to an excerpt from a new audio book, former President Donald Trump indicated during a January 2020 interview with Bob Woodward that he knew letters from North Korean leader Kim Jong-un were classified. Top secret. And appeared to acknowledge they were so secret that he should not be sharing them. According to The Washington Post, after urging Woodward to treat them with respect. Trump warned in an interview and said, don't say I gave them to you, okay? But I'll let you see them, Trump added.

I don't want you to have them all. These are his quotes. A month later in January of 2020, Woodward pressed Trump in a phone call to let him also see the letters that Trump wrote to Kim. And here are the words. Oh, those are so top secret. Oh, dear. The classification, actually, that the FBI and the DOJ has been saying,

he had top secret material, Mika. And they're like, oh, no, no, no. But Donald Trump tells Woodward, yeah, they're so top secret. Let's bring in NBC News justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. And Ken, does this move the meter at all, especially in the eyes of DOJ, looking into whether he was obstructing justice and other things? Mika, you have to believe that it does, because, you know, this whole question of intent is looming over this entire investigation. And here is evidence in Donald Trump's own mouth, including this new designation of so top secret. It's not one generally known, but that he knew this stuff was extremely sensitive. Now, it's not the letters with the North Korean leader that the government is all that worried about. Those, in theory, wouldn't betray really any sources and methods.

Those are sort of classified as a matter of course. You know, it's sensitive correspondence between two leaders. But it's the other stuff that we don't know about that they could have profound implications. And if he was treating these letters this way, then what was he doing with a leader profile of the French president, for example, that was based on highly classified collection or other kinds of information that really, really could put the national security in danger? So absolutely, this is going to be a really tough thing for the Trump team to overcome. Now, Trump could still make the claim this this conversation happened in 2019.

He can still make the claim and he's been making it, except not in court, that he somehow declassified this information using his powers as the ultimate declassification authority. But there is absolutely no evidence that that happened. No one we've talked to who worked in the Trump administration believes that happened. And Trump's lawyers have never made that claim in court, presumably because they have no evidence to back it up. And almost everyone, including Trump's former attorney general, his national security to a 1980s Wendy's commercial asking, where's the beef? That's the question posed to former President Donald Trump's attorneys by the special master during a phone conference yesterday. Special Master Judge Raymond Deary expressed skepticism about Trump's claim that certain documents seized by the FBI from Mar-a-Lago are privileged. He requested more information from Trump's attorneys to back up that assertion.

Judge Deary also encouraged them to explain why they believe documents could be lawfully shielded from the Justice Department's inquiry into whether the former president unlawfully kept classified records at Mar-a-Lago and obstructed the government's repeated attempts to get them back. So, you know, this is so fascinating to watch the special master work can remember he was Judge Deere was on the Trump team's list and was agreed to that this would be the guy. And boy, he's not getting from him what he thought he might get. No, indeed. And we've all been puzzling why they put him on the list. And the only plausible theory is that he was once on the FISA court and it's believed that he may have

reviewed some of the applications for a warrant during the Trump-Russia investigation where the FBI made some misrepresentations. So the Trump team thought he may be more skeptical than other judges of the U.S. government. But it turns out that Judge Deary is a member of team reality and he just is acting like a federal judge would act. And he's demanding that the lawyers back up their assertions and and make timely applications. dissatisfied with the pace of the Trump team submissions, because it's very clear that it's good to a lot of people that this whole exercise by the Trump side is a matter of trying to delay things. And let's not forget, the Justice Department is appealing this whole process, and they are trying to get an expedited ruling from the 11th Circuit that would put Judge Deary

out of business and make this whole thing go away. But even more important than that, they've got the classified documents. They're proceeding with their investigation. They're interviewing important witnesses. And there's no sign really that this process is impeding the FBI and the Justice Department. Ken, one more for you. A federal jury has acquitted a Russian think tank analyst on four counts of lying to the FBI about his role in the creation of a discredited dossier about former President Donald Trump. Prosecutors alleged 44-year-old Igor Dushenko provided false information to agents trying to verify details in the largely unsubstantiated dossier detailing Trump's alleged ties to Russia. This is expected to be the final case stemming from special counsel John Durham's three year probe into the origins of the FBI's investigation

into allegations. We have heard of ties between Trump. We have heard that from from Trump and his hacks in the media that Durham was going to uncover the great deep state conspiracy against Donald Trump. Of course, you saw everybody lie. You saw Durham, maybe it was about a year ago. I can't remember exactly. But Durham puts out a pleading that looks like it literally is drafted by a six year old. I've never seen anything so, so, so mangled, any court pleading. And Mika, you know, you remember I was reading it and I don't sit around just scanning over documents. I'm a generalist, for God's sake. But I was reading it for a day. I called every legal expert I knew. I said,

I don't get this document. It looks like they're just trying to create headlines here. There's nothing here. And sure enough, Hacks said, it's true. It's true. It's a Harrison Ford. It's all of it. All of it's true. It's true. It's true. Hillary, Hillary, she, she she she bugged Trump's phone. It's true. There's a deep state conspiracy. No, it wasn't. It's just such horrible bad faith. And I remember all weekend from Friday to Monday, they lied repeatedly about what Durham's pleading said, lied repeatedly. And Durham, he's. This this guy's like the 1962 Mets, this may be the worst investigation in the in the history of the federal government. It's hard to lose if you've got the power of the federal government behind you.

But he keeps doing it. And I want you to talk about that, Ken. But also, I just this is a good time to stop. We have three stories, all three of them breaking strong against Donald Trump, all three of them proving that judges and juries are on, as you said, team reality. But think about it. I mean, Trump always seems to lose in court. Sixty five cases where they're going into federal court and they're doing their scam lies that they can do on the Internet. They can do with really stupid people. These conspiracy theories about about stealing the election. Sixty five federal courts shut them

down, including the United States Supreme Court. Even Thomas and Alito say, listen, we can take this case based on the merits, but it's not going to change the outcome of the election. Right. And then you have this special master time and again. You have the 11th Circuit coming out last week, shutting, you know, shutting down the federal judge. You've got the United States Supreme Court doing the same thing over the past six months. Claims of executive privilege by Trump thrown out by the United States Supreme Court. I can go literally can go on and on for the next 15 minutes about all the spurious claims that Donald Trump's made and his judges that he appointed are even shutting down almost all of these claims. Yeah, Joe, and you are absolutely right. The federal government does

not lose many of the trials when it chooses to take a case to trial, it wins the vast majority of them. And this prosecutor, John Durham, the special counsel, is now 0 for 2 in trials. 2 charged, 2 acquitted. And he tried this case himself. This is a spectacular crack-up. And it really raises a lot of questions about John Durham's past work. Remember, John Durham was hired by the Obama administration to investigate whether the CIA broke the law when it tortured prisoners. And he investigated for years and he brought no charges. And then he fought vigorously to keep all his information secret. And back then, when I talked to people about him, he generally had a good reputation as a solid nonpartisan

prosecutor. But in this case, judges have found that he tried to insert spurious material into these cases to try to create this idea that there was this conspiracy by the FBI to act improperly, to set up Donald Trump. None of it flew. In fact, before this Denchenko trial started, the judge threw most of what he was trying to put on before the jury threw it out. And so it became a very narrow trial about whether Denchenko lied to the FBI on some very esoteric issues. And the jury took a day and said, why are we here? And acquitted Denchenko, who was a key source for the dossier. And the dossier, look, it's well known now that the dossier played

very little role in the FBI's investigation. It was a spurious document full of gossip and innuendo. And the FBI treated it like that very, fairly quickly after they learned that that's what it was about. But John Durham, wow. I mean, he's going to write a report now and he's going to submit it to Merrick Garland and Merrick Garland, the attorney general, will decide whether to make it public. But his effort to try to prove that there was some improper conspiracy by the FBI to frame Donald Trump has collapsed spectacularly. All right. NBC News justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. And thank you so much. And Willie, you know, we said here the first day that we heard reports about the Steele dossier that it sounded it sounded like like a hoax, sounded bogus. But that's that was five years ago. I mean, that was so long ago. And you look at all of the things that Trump and Barr and Durham and everybody else have thrown up against the wall. newspapers on the right talking about how Hillary Clinton really did bug Trump's phones,

that it was some some big conspiracy. It's all a lie. And it was proven to be a lie. And Durham's entire investigation has proven to just be a futile exercise to prove one of Donald Trump's dumbest conspiracy theories yet. Yeah, it was another one of the whims of Donald Trump. This whole thing was launched, remember, more than three years ago, three years of this investigation resulting in just about nothing. There was one low level guilty plea from an FBI official. But yeah, this is longer by twice, I think, as the Mueller investigation. And it was put out there to put some smoke around the Mueller report to say, let's investigate the investigators. Let's check out this Steele dossier, which, as Ken just said, was bogus.

I mean, it was bogus to the FBI. The point was for them to look at it and try to corroborate it. They couldn't do it. And now John Durham was set out, as Ken said as well, a legitimate guy with an experienced guy to kind of give some legitimacy to Donald Trump's whim around all this. And it has yielded absolutely nothing. There's one more example, Mika, about a lawyer that got involved with Donald Trump. Right. Not only embarrassed himself, but in the end, lost. If you're an attorney and you're representing Donald Trump. That's a losing proposition. Two things are going to happen. You don't have three things are going to happen to you. One, you're going to get stiffed.

Like, you're not, he's not going to pay your bill. You're going to get sold out. You better get the money up front. Secondly, your reputation's going to be shot. He'll have you, maybe he'll have you sign a document like the poor woman, Christina Bob. Yeah. Christina Bob, who signed the document. Now she's the one being investigated by the FBI because she signed a document that was a lie. Why would you sign that? I know, but that happens. All of his lawyers, he put some in terrible positions to lie.

Right. So he doesn't have to lie directly to the government. And the third thing is that after it's all over, if you're not thrown in jail or in bankruptcy court, you'll lose. It's happened again. I mean, the tally is incredible. Sixty five federal cases, 65 federal cases on these election lies, on these conspiracy theories that Donald Trump tried to push out there. Oh, and 65, the Supreme Court, his Supreme Court, as he likes to say, has shut him down time and time again, not only on those conspiracy theories. They've shut him down on bogus claims for executive privilege.

They're shutting him down on bogus claims on these top secret materials. They're shutting him down on what the special master can and can't do. They're shutting him down time and time again. And again, it's not like the ghost of Earl Warren. It's Clarence Thomas. It's Alito. It's Kavanaugh. I mean, it's the most conservative justice is saying this is bogus. Get this out of here. But it's right out there for you, lawyers across America. I mean, for Republicans, it might be a little bit harder to understand because you can sometimes win elections, you know, roiling hate and all the things Trump does. But if you're a lawyer and you choose to represent Donald Trump, those three things are going to happen to you. It's all in

front of you for you to see. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll play for you the key debate moments between Senator Marco Rubio and Congresswoman Val Demings in Florida. And later, we'll be joined by Congresswoman Demings herself, plus Democratic nominee for governor of Georgia, Stacey Abrams, will be our guest this morning after record-setting early voting got underway in her state yesterday. Also ahead, the latest on the war in Ukraine as a Russian commander admits the situation in the Kherson region is very, very difficult. And breaking news from the BBC, before we got on, they are now starting to leave the area. We'll take a look at where the fighting stands now

and new reporting on a new legal fight over thousands of documents relating to the assassination of JFK. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back with all that. It was a fiery U.S. Senate debate last night in Florida between Republican incumbent Marco Rubio and Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings. They clashed over inflation, abortion rights, immigration and guns as they challenged each other's records in Congress as well. She's never passed a single bill. She's been in Congress for over half a decade. She's never passed a bill, not PPP, not anything, not a single bill she's passed has ever become law. I'm proud of the fact we saved millions of jobs. I'm proud of the fact we did it in a bipartisan way. That's not true. I know the senator. Look, and I'm really disappointed in you, Marco Rubio, because I don't I think there was a time when you did not lie in order to win. I don't know what happened to you. You know, that is not true.

My first term in this in the United States House, I passed legislation to help law enforcement officers with mental health programs. Your first term in the Senate, you voted to turn Medicare into basically to abolish it. You've done nothing, nothing to help address gun violence and get dangerous weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. Florida, after Parkland, after you made promises that you had no intentions on keeping to the parents of Parkland, Florida passed legislation raising the age to have an assault weapon. Our primary responsibility is the safety of Floridians. And Senator, 24 years in elected office, and you have not yet risen to that occasion. The truth of the matter is at the end of the day that Americans have a second amendment right to protect themselves. And these killers that are out there, if they're intent on killing as they are,

they have found multiple ways to get a hold of weapons and cause mass destruction. Every bill I've ever sponsored on abortion, every bill I've ever voted for has exceptions. Every one of them does. The extremist on abortion in this campaign is Congresswoman Demings. She supports no restrictions, no limitations of any kind. What we know is that the senator supports no exceptions. He can make his mouth say anything today. He's good at that, by the way. What day is it? And what is Marco Rubio saying? I've said time and time again, and he knows it, that I support a woman's right to choose up to the time of viability. You know, guys, we focus so much on Georgia and Arizona and Pennsylvania and all those tight races that are going to swing the Senate. This Florida race, oddly,

has gone a little bit under the radar. But it was clear again last night that Marco Rubio, while leading in the polls, has a fight on his hands and why Congresswoman Demings was on the short list to become Joe Biden's choice to be vice president. Yeah. Joining us now, NBC News senior national political reporter Marco Puto and former chief of staff to the DCCC, Adrienne Elrod. She is a senior aide to Hillary Clinton and Biden presidential campaigns. But Joe watched the full debate last night. And you really could see the experience that Val Demings has as a police chief who's dealt with a lot of characters that might frustrate her. She really had her she had her facts ready, but she was also ready to confront him with some of the kinds of things the Republican Party has done of late in order to win. Yeah. You know, we're going to go to Mark Caputo in a second.

He's obviously a great reporter that covers Florida. So I'm going to just say this myself and provide sort of the analysis of what I saw last night. Marco Rubio most likely will win. It's it could be a tight race. We'll see how it goes. Florida has been trending, trending Republican, obviously strongly in 2020. But Val Demings did did a very good job last night. I've got to say, and this is where I wish I could ask Marco Puto this, but he's a reporter, so he can't really answer it. But I was getting a lot of phone calls last night from people who were seeing this debate. And they said this Marco Rubio. Everybody I talked to said something happened to him in 2016. Like Donald Trump got into his head. Donald Trump happened to him, got into his head and he just never recovered.

He he seemed off balance last night. He would have pat answers. Frustrated little boy. You know, Second Amendment, right. People have second. If if if you take guns away from people, only it was just these pat answers that you would hear somebody in a middle school debate make where they were pretending to be in a Senate debate. And he seemed seemed shrill. He seemed sophomoric. He seemed sweaty.

And I just I just don't know that he ever recovered from Donald Trump in 2016, beating him as badly as he did in Florida. And I would say one other thing, too. I mean, Marco Rubio was once seen as the future of the Republican Party. There was like a Time magazine cover talking about him being the future of the Republican Party. And what I saw last night was just a shadow of that guy. It was it was to me, it was really jarring how pat, how simple, how sophomoric those answers were, because I don't think. He's always been that way. Maybe I'm wrong and people will scream and yell at me on Twitter now about that.

But I don't think he's always been that bad. All right. That's been my that's my opinion. Now, let's go to the reporter, Mark Caputo. Thanks so much for being with us. It was a fiery debate last night. Break down. What was the news out of it? I think the news out of it is that Val Demings came to take Marco Rubio to the woodshed and she did. But at the same time, to your point earlier, is it enough? I'm not sure. If you look at the polling and if you look at the state's voter registration trends and prior election results, as well as just the strength of the Republican Party here, it is still going to be a tough climb for Val Demings. But if a Democrat is going to win statewide this year in Florida, it's probably going to be her. However, again, this is a really

tough environment for Democrats to win in in this state. One of the things not to fault debate moderators too much because it's really the forum in the format of our debates nowadays. But they really actually started to debate. And that's almost like news in and of itself nowadays in debates. Too often there's kind of topic tyranny where the moderator has to hustle people along. And actually, it winds up being kind of a joint interview where the moderator winds up, you know, suppressing a debate when it breaks out because, well, we've got to move on. You've got 30 seconds and 15 seconds of response. And you really saw that exchange during guns and abortion. And I think regardless of whom you supported or who you thought won,

it was a pretty good exchange. And if, it's an if Val Demings doesn't win this year, I think what you saw and what you read on Twitter and social media is like Democrats in this state were finally excited again about a candidate like, wow. Yeah. So if she doesn't make it across the finish line this year, I do imagine Val Demings is going to still remain in the mix in future elections. Yeah. And I have to say that the debate moderator and the debate format was very effective. It allowed for a conversation and interaction, even an argument or a debate between two candidates. And and others should take note of how that was executed. It was done really well.

Adrian, what were your takeaways? Yeah, first of all, I completely agree with Joe. There was a time when Marco Rubio was, you know, sort of seen as a charismatic, moderate Republican who, you know, would kind of work with both sides. And what you saw last night, I think, from him as somebody who probably feels still very damaged from the 2016 presidential primary and is just not quite rising to the occasion that he once did on the national stage. And also, you saw someone who did her debate prep homework, and that is Val Demings.

She knew exactly what Marco Rubio's record was. You know, some of these Republicans who try to come out there and say, oh, you know, I'm not really for a full abortion ban, you know, I'm going to try to sort of take this moderate stance, she made it very clear that you cannot have it both ways. And that is what we are starting to see from some of these Republicans who have been so hardcore pro-life and have run on that for multiple campaign cycles. They're now trying to backtrack because they know how unpopular it is with voters. And kudos to Val Demings for really holding him accountable on that

and making it clear that, you know, there are not Republicans in the Senate who are going to try to have it both ways. If you want to actually try to push back against what the Supreme Court did and make row or make reproductive rights codify that into federal law, you've got to elect Democrats. And she made it clear that somebody like Marco Rubio is not going to be on the side of women. So she did an outstanding job. I agree with I agree with Mark. I mean, this is a Florida is becoming more and more red. But if somebody can win this race against Marco Rubio, it's Val Demings. All right. And we're going to have Val Demings at the top of the hour, about 20 minutes to talk to her about last night's debate and the race moving forward. Mark, you also have new reporting just out moments ago about the nation's largest online source

on the JFK assassination now suing the Biden administration to release the final 16000 records related to the murder. Tell us about this development. Yeah, it's pretty fascinating. You guys were talking about the deep state earlier. If there's really a deep state for the JFK. I'm serious. The JFK case really exemplifies it. Right. Because we've you know, we've waited almost 60 years since the assassination of JFK. And we still don't have all the records. In 1992, Congress passed the JFK Records Act, which said that in 2017, all of the records should finally be released. That is, the entire federal government should gather all assassination related records related to JFK and that it should disseminate all of them to the public by 2017. Now, Trump, who always talks about the deep state, well, he went along with the deep state and he said, well, let's delay it. And then he delayed it more and he left it to Biden. And then last year in October, Biden was supposed to release them

per the JFK records act of 1992. And he delayed it until December 15th this year. But in that time, the Mary Farrell foundation, which is this large online source of information regarding the JFK records. Like if you go on their website, you can find any record possible that's available. They had determined, look, there are enough loopholes. There are enough off ramps in Biden's memo to allow the national security state, mainly the CIA to a degree, the FBI to continue hiding records. One of the things, the lawsuit that was filed in San Francisco federal court lays out as multiple instances of documents that have been redacted that should have been redacted either in whole or in part their memos on reorganizing the

CIA after the failed invasion of the Bay of Pigs in Cuba. There's a lot of Cuba and a lot of Miami where I'm based in there. There's information related to various CIA case officers who had contact with the accused shooter or the likely shooter or one of the shooters, Lee Harvey Oswald. That information should have been released. It's not. Case officers with the CIA, one who was the Miami chief of station, who also was running an exile group in New Orleans that had contact with Lee Harvey Oswald. That's information the CIA hasn't released. Just on and on. Let me ask you this question before we let you go. So what are the operating theories for the people who know the most about this case on what the government is

hiding? Why the government won't release all the information? They don't know. They literally say, and we caught a few people in here, it's like, what is the government hiding? Now, the people I've spoken to, and there's a lot of theories here as to what happened. They think that there were some rogue CIA case officers who recruited Lee Harvey Oswald into a conspiracy or set him up to a degree and were complicit to one degree or another in JFK's assassination and that the CIA and the national security state, so to speak, is so embarrassed about this that they basically don't want this out there. But some of the excuses for hiding these records just don't add up anymore.

Oh, we don't want to release sources and methods. This is stuff from 60 years ago, guys. Yeah. I always, always remember Lee Harvey Oswald saying I'm a patsy. Yeah. And then and then, of course, again, in the part of this, this just has never made any sense. Jack Ruby, like guns him down and kills him before he can talk. I mean, my God, they need to release. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But as you say, this stuff doesn't add up. And as I always tell my kids, when something doesn't make sense, it doesn't make it. There's a reason. Yeah. Dig deeper. And so this is fascinating.

Mark, thank you very much. If there's a decision, Mark, when do we get this information? That's a good question. It's supposed to be by December 15th, but who knows? You know, again, this happened 60 years ago. Coming up. Thanks, Mark. Former President Obama has some advice for Democrats ahead of the midterms. Don't be a buzzkill. That's what you tell me all the time.

No, no, no. Democrats, don't be a buzzkill. We'll play for you his comments on that and what he said about cancel culture. Plus, Republican governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson, joins us ahead of a big conference kicking off today for conservatives. Morning Joe is coming right back. Start our ad watch with the Republicans. Now, for this election, they want everything to be focused on three issues. Inflation, crime, and pretending they didn't hear that thing Trump just said.

So they've been running ads emphasizing these issues. You know, some of them have been subtle. But Louisiana Senator John Kennedy has decided that subtle is not his style. Violent crime is surging in Louisiana. Woke leaders blame the police. I blame the criminals. A mom should not have to look over her shoulder when she's pumping gas. I voted against the early release of violent criminals and I opposed defunding the police. Look, if you hate cops just because they're cops, the next time you get in trouble, call a crackhead. I'm John Kennedy, and I approve this message.

Okay, that's quite a tag. That's quite a tag. Call a crackhead. In just moments. Put that one on a bumper sticker. Do it. Conservative leaders are going to gather in Arkansas for an event aimed at finding real solutions to the nation's problems. The America Leads Summit is hosted by Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson with a keynote address by former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. And Governor Hutchinson joins us now. Asa, always great talking to you. Thanks so much. When I these days, when I hear conservative summit, I flinch because, you know, my idea, I think kind of kind of like yours, my idea of a conservative, somebody who follows, you know, Burke, Russell Kirk, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher.

We haven't seen a lot of that in some of these summits, but it looks like your summit is going to be different. Tell us about it. Well, it is going to be different. It's important three weeks out from the election that the candidates, that the public focus on ideas that's going to help America. And so I think we ought to talk about problem solving and not just simply creating chaos. And there's real issues that we face from China overseas to Russia to Saudi Arabia. We're going to be talking about those at the Idea Summit today. We're going to have a great education panel that's going to have Governor Doug Ducey from Arizona, a real substantive leader, former

Secretary Betsy DeVos. We're also going to talk about investing in middle America. So Steve Case, we're going to have Tom and Stuart Walton, who engages in entrepreneurial leadership and philanthropy that helps middle America in terms of education, but in terms of growth and creating tech jobs. So a lot's happening here, and we're excited about ideas and what it means for our future. Well, you know, what's so exciting is what you're saying is that you're talking about ideas. You're talking about reform and changes. I talked about Burke before. There are a lot of people running around with radical ideas. You know, in the 60s and 70s, it was conservatives that actually defended institutions.

And instead of tearing down institutions, they wanted to talk about how to reform institutions. And again, going back to Edmund Burke, he said a mob can tear down in hours what it takes a civilization a century to build. So talk about that. I don't want to sound like Bush 41, but I love the I love the guy. So I'll use the word. Let's talk about that prudence in reform and not just trying to tear down institutions. Well, absolutely. And it's important that we have an optimistic view of America. And whenever we have that in the mold of Ronald Reagan, then it helps to bring people together because we're united for the cause of freedom. And you mentioned some great founding leaders and thought leaders. One of the principles of conservatism is the limited government. And I think that's important to talk about because we don't want to get in the mold of conservatism that uses government to accomplish a social agenda all the time.

And, you know, whereas we need to at least think through, is this a proper role of government? We need to talk about a strong foreign policy. And America leads, again, Ronald Reagan and the role of the private sector. And that's why we have entrepreneurial leadership and investment. But it's based upon principle and ideas and optimism about our future. To me, that's a good conservative approach and one that wins in America. Governor, good morning. As Joe says, you're talking like a pre-Trump conservative, talking about issues that are important to Republicans and conservatives, or at least used to be. I'm wondering if you felt if you've spoken out from time to time against Donald Trump,

you said his actions around January 6th and the election were disqualifying. You said it was a dereliction of duty the way he acted on that day. And you said as a party, Republicans shouldn't be talking about the past, shouldn't be talking about him, should be talking about issues. We've wondered many times why other Republicans don't take on Donald Trump at certain times. Have you seen any political consequences for speaking out when you have? No, I mean, certainly it's important when I talk about unifying, you know, if you're a Republican leader, you need to bring in that part of the base that has been very loyal to Donald Trump. I mean, there's issues that they care about that I care about. But you've also got a fringe element that wants to tear down our democracy and they want to simply dwell upon the past.

We've got to move beyond that. We can. And what I see in the Republican Party and the conservative movement is a refocus on ideas, a refocus on a post-Trump Republican Party that does move beyond that. Certainly, he's done some great things in terms of his leadership on conservative principles and supporting Israel. But as I've said, what happened on January 6th puts it all in a different context and what's happened in post-presidency. And so you're not going to hear that the former President Trump's name mentioned in his conference, hardly any, I would suspect, because we're talking about ideas and we're not talking about personalities and we're talking about really the important things that impact people at their breakfast table, but also the issues of America's leadership in this world.

These are big challenges that we face. We need to have good minds and conservative thought that addresses these in a positive way. You know, Governor, there are a lot of Republicans who are conservative, who listen to you talk and have watched the way you've sort of behaved politically during the Trump years and thought that's the direction we ought to be going. There are some people who think you should actually jump in and run for president in 2024. Is that something you're thinking about?

Well, it has to be on your mind because this election is three weeks away and then you shift and leadership has to involve 2024. But just like myself and other leaders out there, We've got to focus on this election. It is too important what happens going into the next two years of the Biden administration. We need to have checks and balances. And so that's the focus. We'll see what the future holds for 2024. All right. Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, thanks so much, Asa. Always great to have you here. Really appreciate it. And good luck this weekend. And, you know, he's he's evidence in Arkansas and a deep red state of a governor that has has been more determined to stick by some basic conservative principles than then be swept away by the madness of the past five or six years. You also look, and we're going to be talking to Stacey Abrams later. You also look, though, to Georgia and you see that Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger are two Republican leaders in a deep red state that crossed Donald Trump.

And yes, I understand they're doing their job. That's what they're saying. Yeah. But again. I know everybody else is not doing their job. So far from being election deniers with Brad Raffensperger, you've got a guy that actually recorded Donald Trump may ultimately be the reason why he's he's finally brought to justice for trying to steal an election. And you see that you can do that. You can win your primaries.

Both of those men won their primaries by a large margin and they're going to survive politically. It's again, I've been I've been so disappointed because I've always asked, why don't people stand up to leadership when the Republican Party, because you could get rewarded for it and be, oh, no, no, it's different. No, it's not. These people have done it and they have survived politically and they're stronger for it. There's a reason why Brian Kemp is pulling ahead right now of Herschel Walker, in part because Walker is too tied to Donald Trump. And people are trying to sort through that. And if you look at Asa's group, America Leads, watch it online or whatever, they're not mentioning Trump because they're talking about conservative ideas.

It's easy to avoid Trump because he doesn't have anything to do with most of those. He's not about ideas. He's not about ideology. He's he's he doesn't even it's not about Burk or Kirk or Reagan or Thatcher. It's a personality call. Yes. Still ahead, we'll be joined by two Democratic candidates in key midterm races, both fresh off their tough debates with their incumbent opponents. Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate in Florida, Congresswoman Val Demings, will be with us in just a few moments. And as Joe mentioned, the Democratic nominee for governor of Georgia, Stacey Abrams, will be our guest at the top of the third hour of Morning Joe. We'll be right back.