Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/27/22

Episode Date: October 27, 2022

Herschel Walker denies new abortion allegation

Things aren't going much better for Herschel. His campaign for Senate gets nuttier by the day. In less than two years, this is where we at. And now you're asking for six more years. Do you look like we got peanuts in our brain? Let me think about that for an hour. I think, is the answer yes? Yes, I say yes.

Yeah, it might be. There's more from Georgia this morning. A second woman comes forward to accuse Republican Senate candidate Herschel Walker of paying for her abortion 30 years ago. Like the other woman, this accuser also apparently has receipts. We'll have the latest on that development. Plus, President Biden and key members of his cabinet hit the road to play defense on the economy with Election Day now just 12 days away. We'll have more on their message and the new polling that shows things may be swinging back in Democrats' favor. It's time to be slipping a bit. And yet they have a lot of wins, a lot of legislative wins to brag on. But yet, how do they bring that together into a strong message that could really

bring it home on Election Day? We'll look into that in just a moment. But this morning, we have a new allegation against Herschel Walker to report. Another woman has come forward accusing the Georgia Republican Senate candidate of pressuring her into having an abortion. The woman appeared anonymously yesterday with her lawyer, Gloria Allred. She claims she became involved with a former football player back in 1987 while he was still married and became pregnant with his child back in 1993. She says he encouraged her several times to have an abortion, and she eventually went to a clinic in Dallas to have the procedure, but didn't go through with it, which she alleges made Walker upset. She claims she then drove. He then drove her to the clinic

and waited outside in the parking lot for hours until she came back out. Here's what she had to say about why she is coming forward now. Herschel Walker says he is against women who claimed that he had paid for her abortion. And particularly forward because Herschel is running as a Republican candidate. That is simply not the case. I am a registered independent. And I voted for Donald Trump in both elections. I do not believe that Herschel is morally fit to be a U.S. senator.

And that is the reason why I am speaking up. During yesterday's news conference, the woman's lawyer showed cards, photographs and receipts that she said supported her client's story. Walker was out campaigning with South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham when he responded to the new allegation. I'm done with this foolishness. I've already told people this is a lie and I'm not going to entertain because you continue to carry a lie alone. And I also want to let you know I didn't kill JFK either. And right now they sent one. I think I crushed at that debate. Now the Democrats are doing say whatever they can to win this party, to win this seat. But all they want to know, they don't know Hershel Walker. Walker has also denied an

allegation from another woman who says he paid for her abortion. NBC News has not independently verified this latest allegation. And Willie, just looking at this race overall, I mean, first of all, this candidate is a proven liar. His own children, one of his adult children has come out and said he's a proven liar and backs the claims that he run Americans and women. But now let's look at the Democrats. And why isn't Raphael Warnock doing better? He's he actually is a pastor. He has had one race before in Georgia. He's proved himself in the Senate for two years. He's been part of a huge stimulus package that he campaigned on that was then passed. He's not mentioning that stimulus package much. Maybe he felt that his job as a pastor made it hard for him to attack somebody else on moral grounds.

But I think there's some rethinking now amongst Democrats. Could he have gone harder after Herschel Walker in the course of those debates? I mean, Greg, when you look at voters in Georgia at the moment and you think of particularly suburban women voters around Atlanta and you weigh up these two candidates and you throw in the issue of Dobbs and the abortion, you would think, wouldn't you, that Raphael Warnock would be the ideal candidate as opposed to Herschel Walker for them. But it's not clear from the polling that he's far ahead on this. No, not at all.

I mean, it's a neck and neck race. And Senator Warnock frames himself as a pro-choice pastor, but the real reason, or at least the number one reason I think that this is such a tight race is Joe Biden. It's a 30, he has a 38% approval rating here in Georgia and Republicans can just continue to try to weigh Senator Warnock down with Joe Biden's approval ratings, like an anchor. And that continues to be a factor in this race. And look, but Senator Warnock is still running far ahead of Stacey Abrams. She's eight to 10 points back even in some recent polls of Governor Brian Kemp. Well, it's a neck and neck race in the Senate contest. And one reason why that is, is because Senator Warnock continues to hold

Joe Biden at arm's length. He's trying to appeal to that sort of middle of the electorate and mobilize those voters. And he feels at least that tying himself to President Biden, even saying he wants President Biden to run for reelection would be damaging to that. So he won't answer that question on the campaign trail. And he continues to go. He talks more about working with Ted Cruz and Tommy Tuberville than he does about working with Joe Biden. That is a clear aim for the middle of the electorate. So 12 days to go till this election in the state of Georgia. As you know, Greg is still looking back at the last election as well. Former President Trump's White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, now has been ordered to testify as part of an investigation into 2020 election interference in Georgia.

A South Carolina judge ruled yesterday Meadows must comply with a subpoena to appear before the special grand jury in Fulton County. Meadows, who lives in South Carolina, has tried to avoid testifying as part of that probe. A spokesperson for Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis says Meadows will not appear before the grand jury until sometime after the midterm elections next month with this kind of on pause right now, this investigation. Greg, I want to play part of a phone call where Mark Meadows is on tape trying to influence the counting of the votes in the state of Georgia back in January of 2021. Mr. Secretary, one of the obviously and they don't talk about Donald Trump on the campaign trail.

Governor Kemp won't won't antagonize him. He doesn't he doesn't want to get, you know, rile up his supporters. But at the same time, he's talking about his record, not Donald Trump. Hershel Walker did have a sky high, you know, name recognition in a state like Georgia. So it's not going to necessarily be a referendum on Trump. But it is very notable that in the final days of this race, Donald Trump has not put Georgia on his schedule. And there are many senior Republican officials who do not want him to come, even those aligned with Herschel Walker. So interesting reporter for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Greg Blustein. Thank you very, very much.

And also interesting to point out that Trump is doing a bunch of rallies over the weekend. He's going to Florida. He's going to be campaigning for Marco Rubio. And no dissenters at that event. Just doesn't seem to have any interest in connecting. Usually the governor is there for these events. We'll talk about that. And still ahead on Morning Joe, protests in Iran have entered a sixth week.

What we're learning about new sanctions against Iranian officials following a violent crackdown on those nationwide demonstrations. Plus, some Democrats are growing nervous about Pennsylvania following this week's Senate debate between John Fetterman and Dr. Mehmet Oz. We'll take a look at how some members of the party are reacting to Fetterman's debate performance. And one of our next guests has a prediction. He believes sometime next year, Republicans in the House are going to impeach President Biden and possibly other administration officials as well. We'll talk about why. Also ahead, Republicans have been ramping up outreach to minority voters. We'll have new reporting on the extent of those efforts and what it could mean for the midterms. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. 22 past the hour with less than two weeks until the midterm elections, the Biden administration is going all out to push its closing message on the economy,

starting with the president himself, who will be in Syracuse, New York today. An administration official says Biden's major economic speech will be reinforced by more than half a dozen other administration officials who will also hold economic focused events today, including a major economic address in Ohio from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. By tomorrow, officials will have made 77 trips to 29 states just this month with more already planned. Willie? And most of those trips are focused on the economy and on inflation, with the president planning to shine a bright light on what he calls Republicans mega, mega trickle down economic policies. Senior administration officials are framing the Republican priorities as a five part

plan that includes extending the Trump tax cuts, also repealing tax reforms and the prescription drug reform plan in the Inflation Reduction Act. The other bullet points opposing the law's improvements on the Affordable Care Act, repealing the clean energy policies in the Inflation Reduction Act, and suing to stop President Biden's student loan relief plan. The administration argues these Republican goals will make inflation worse and says the president's policies will create an economy from the bottom up and the middle out. John, this clearly is a concerted effort and an admission that this is the message they should have had all along.

Abortion is important. Democracy is important. All of those things remain on the radar. But it is, in the end, for most voters, the economy. Yeah. Mega, MAGA, trickle down economic policy doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Yeah, I had to fight through that one. But it is going to be the president's message today, upstate New York, but also as he his relatively limited campaign appearance is going forward. This is what the White House wants to focus on, as you say. Threats to democracy, important. Abortion rights, of course important. And the administration does want to be able to tout what it and Democrats in Congress accomplished over the summer,

which is quite a bit. But it seems that the final plot twist, the final narrative in these midterms is about the economy, rising prices, and the White House is trying to focus on that now. And it is interesting where the president is delivering this message. It's to focus on the CHIPS Act and manufacturing upstate New York that matters, but also aides tell me to give Kathy Hochul a little boost, the New York governor in a surprisingly close race. And we'll have the president head to Pennsylvania tomorrow, and he's going to be in Pennsylvania a lot in the next week or so, but not too many other places. The White House still knows that Biden's poll numbers aren't that high. A lot of campaigns aren't that eager to have him join their candidates

at events. He's not getting out to Arizona. He's not getting out to Nevada, at least for now. Nothing in Michigan or Wisconsin either. He's going to focus on Pennsylvania. He's going to raise as much money as he can, try to frame the stakes, big picture to deliver a closing argument for his party, a party that is growing nervous, Mika, here. The House is going to be hard to keep. I think most Democrats acknowledge that. But the Senate, 50-50. And so much of it is going to come down to probably a trio of states, Nevada, Georgia, as we've been discussing, and of course, Pennsylvania. This is a really tough slog. And Senator Bernie Sanders even is hitting the campaign trail across the country to help get out the vote. The independent senator from Vermont has 15 scheduled appearances over the next two weekends, heading to key swing states to help

drive turnout and excitement among young people and working class voters. The senator's tour starts today in Oregon and California, then moves east to key states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. And, Cady, I mean, you've been traveling across the country, actually, for your BBC special on Trump's America. And I'm curious, is it going to be possible at this time for the Democrats to be able to have a message that does two things at once, that talks about the Republicans and abortion and their sort of inhumane policies versus and taking your rights away versus touting the legislative wins that could help the economy, but not exactly right now because a lot of legislation and policies takes time to deliver. This is a tough one. Yeah, I mean, I think you've laid out why it's so complicated for them. I think, you know, early on in the Biden administration,

they passed this massive $1.9 trillion rescue package after COVID. And they really hoped in the White House that this was going to be the package of measures that would help them in the midterms, that would help them keep the House and the Senate. And then, of course, those $1,400 checks that were paid directly to people, the $300 a month child tax credit, which then sunsetted but was a big boost at the time, is absolutely nowhere on the trail in Democratic ads. They're just not talking about it because of the inflationary possibilities of those stimulus and them getting hammered by Republicans for inflation. So the one economic message they felt they had,

they can't talk about. And then the Inflation Reduction Act, some of the economic policies in that aren't delivering benefits until potentially the beginning of next year. So people aren't feeling those either. It is an economic bind, but with some 80 percent of the population saying economy is their most important voting issue, I think the Democrats are right. They have to start talking about this. And you're right. They probably should be doing this earlier. They had to be able to do two things at once. And sending out somebody like Bernie Sanders is a clear indication that they realize they have to speak to working class and middle class voters about issues like the economy, because that is his biggest issue. It's the issue he's associated with and try and gin up support amongst those people to get out and vote.

And as John says, the president of the United States never thought in the final stretch of this campaign he'd have to be in New York to defend the sitting governor there. Now, in a tight race and Democrats pouring money into districts, Biden won, sometimes by double digits. So things are getting tense for Democrats. Meanwhile, former President Donald Trump has announced a series of rallies in the lead up to Election Day. One week from today, Trump will be in Sioux City, Iowa, with gubernatorial candidate Kim Reynolds and incumbent Senator Chuck Grassley, who finds himself in a closer than expected race against Democratic candidate Mike Franken. On Saturday, November 5th, just before Election Day, Trump travels to Pennsylvania for a rally with Republican gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano and Senate candidate Dr. Mehmet Oz.

Then on Sunday, the former president will travel to Florida for a rally with Senator Marco Rubio. But one notable absence, Governor Ron DeSantis, not mentioned in Trump's email announcing the rally. More on that in just a moment. And then on election eve, the former president will be in Ohio for a rally with J.D. Vance. So back to the Florida event, Politico reports some allies of DeSantis are angry that Donald Trump has scheduled a rally in Florida two days before Election Day. For Marco Rubio, a longtime Republican consultant who was close to the governor, tells Politico, quote, You've got the Sunday before Election Day totally hijacked by Trump parachuting

in on Trump Force One, taking up the whole day. No Republican could go to a DeSantis event that day. None. And DeSantis won't be there. This is big. End quote. Another person influential in DeSantis' world blamed Trump advisers, saying it is, quote, an elbow to Ron's throat. An adviser to Trump denies any conflict between DeSantis and his constituent, the former president, who could be rivals for the next Republican presidential nomination. So, Jonathan Lemire,

a little bit of intrigue there. Donald Trump doesn't love the national attention that Ron DeSantis has been getting, his flirtations with running in 2024, something Donald Trump, of course, would like to do, too. Yeah, this is fun. Trump, for a long time now, has said that he feels that DeSantis, he said this privately to people around him, that he doesn't feel like DeSantis has been sufficiently grateful. And it was Trump's endorsement of DeSantis four years ago that helped propel his at least somewhat long-shot campaign to victory. And he feels that DeSantis has not been kissing the ring.

And DeSantis has refused to do what a lot of Republicans across the country have done, those with presidential aspirations. A number of them have said, yeah, I'm considering a White House run, but I'll stop if Trump jumps in. DeSantis is not doing that. DeSantis sort of started the trend. A few others, including Mike Pence, also doing the same. But this is interesting. Florida has certainly trended Republican in recent cycles. It's still a battleground, but it's got sort of a light red at this moment. It's a key state clearly in 2024. You know, Rubio does have a race there that's competitive, but it would be sort of seen as a long shot for Democrats. DeSantis is going to cruise to victory, it seems. And Trump is there putting his thumb on the scale, picking one over the other.

And I think this is going to be a decision. This relationship between DeSantis and Trump is going to be one to so closely watch in the months ahead as both men do I 2024. Ron DeSantis is in Donald Trump's way. And so Donald Trump will be a child and a bully and move him out of the way. If anyone thinks anything different than they haven't been watching Donald Trump for the past six years, it's the way it goes. He is very, very, very scared of Ron DeSantis in that Ron DeSantis might actually do better than him in a 2024 presidential election. And that just scares Donald Trump because he wants to run again. Maybe some might say to get away from some legal woes. We'll see

how it works out. We'll see what happens to quote Trump still ahead this morning. There's a troubling trend across the country as we get closer to the midterms. Many poll workers are sitting out this election. We'll be joined by a reporter who has been investigating the impact on our democracy. Also ahead, President Biden weighs in on the future of aid for Ukraine if the Republicans take control of the House. We'll have those comments and the ramifications of Democrats losing the chamber next. Morning Joe is back in just a moment. Are you worried about Ukraine aid when the Republicans charge the House? Why are you worried about that? Because they said they'll cut it.

That's President Biden last week reacting to comments from House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy that if Republicans retake control of Congress next month, they could scale back funding for Ukraine. Joining us now, U.S. national editor at The Financial Times, Ed Luce. Ed, thanks for being on. In your latest piece for The Financial Times entitled America's Brittle Consensus on Ukraine, you write in part this. The imperatives confronting Ukraine and Biden are still the same. The faster Ukraine can roll back Russia's military, the better for everyone. Biden and the U.S.'s allies still have a window to tilt the advantage further in Ukraine's favor. But American and Ukrainian interests will diverge as 2024

looms, as both paymasters and quartermaster America's support is indispensable. The White House maintains it will be Ukraine's choice how this war comes to an end. That will be true until the moment it's not. The return of Trump in 2024 would be Putin's ultimate get out of jail free card. In the past eight months, Putin has united the West and forged a lasting sense of Ukrainian nationhood. But peak Western unity has probably been reached. Democracy's biggest existential stakes are still in the U.S. In addition to surrender ordeal, war has a third outcome, indefinite suspension. The hotter America's politics becomes, the greater the temptation to freeze Ukraine's. And I think, Ed, you're touching on something that's concerned me throughout this election process, where I know that candidates need to talk about the economy and they need to talk about abortion and issues that impact the American voters lives.

I do not feel that a clear message on why Ukraine, why support of Ukraine, why this war in Ukraine is so important to win on every level for the sake of democracy, for the sake of the world. And as a result, Republicans, instead of perhaps doing the right thing, and a lot of Republicans have gone through Poland and Kiev to look at what's been happening firsthand and support America's support of the war. And yet it's too easy to twist on the campaign trail. It's too easy to twist as, oh, why can't we focus more on us? And I worry that the ultimate winners will be Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia and Donald Trump.

Yeah, the absence of Ukraine is an issue, I think, sort of reflects the fact that, by and large, there has been bipartisan consensus for the first eight months of this war. And the fact that it's not a hugely resonant thing in terms of Biden's poll numbers. He hasn't had any bounce from it. He deserves bounce. I think he's handled the Ukraine war really exceptionally well. But I think that's going to change. The idea that Republicans support for

funding for the Ukraine war effort is going to continue at a time when they're going to be trying to impeach Trump if they regain control of the House, that Kevin McCarthy, he's not really a leader. He's a follower. And who does he follow? He follows the Freedom Caucus. He follows the extremists in his own party. He's terrified of them. The idea that there will be another game of chicken over the debt ceiling, which there will, that there are going to be impeachment efforts, investigations of Hunter Biden and all the stuff that we know will come if the Republicans regain control, but that support for Ukraine will remain off limits, uncontaminated by this. I think that's naive. I think as we go into 2023 with a likely,

at least partial Republican control of Congress. Ukrainian policy is going to be fragile. It's going to be in the mix and it's not going to be cordoned off. And that's a concern. For sure, that's a concern. And to what extent does that reflect public opinion? I saw a poll recently that showed at the beginning of the war, only 9 percent of Republicans felt that America was giving too much aid to Ukraine by September. That had risen to a third of Republican voters who kind of felt that.

But you've also seen some signs of dissent within the Democratic Party with that with the letter that was sent and then retracted from the progressive caucus that 30 Democrats signed. And certainly when I was traveling around the country, Ukraine was raised a surprising amount. I wasn't asking about Ukraine, but it was an issue that voters on both sides of the aisle, both Democrats and Republicans raised to me saying, you know, why have we spent, it was back then 40 billion, why have we spent $40 billion in Ukraine

when we should be helping, you know, Americans back home? And you can pass those arguments. But there is a feeling out there, I think, among some Democratic and some Republican voters that perhaps this money doesn't make sense to them. The argument has not been sold to them effectively. What can Joe Biden do if you've got this growing America first wing of the House of Representatives after the midterm elections. What can Joe Biden do to kind of to try and find a workaround to get aid to Ukraine? Or will that be it? Will December potentially be the last big aid package for Zelensky? Yeah, I mean, the current

money that was approved earlier this year is running out fast. The one big criticism, Cathy, that I would have of Biden is he hasn't really given a single address to the nation about Ukraine. It's come up the whole time, of course, but there's not been a framing of what is at stake here in terms of European stability with our closest allies across the Atlantic in terms of the future of global democracy. And I think if you look at America's inflation rates, sure, the Ukraine war has added to them far more in Europe, by the way, with energy prices than here. But it's not the primary

driver of inflation. So leveling with the American public about just how important this is would be very helpful. The America First, the pro-Putin wing, as Liz Cheney calls it of the Republican Party, is real. They're a minority of the Republican Party. But as we've seen again and again on a number of issues over many years, what begins as the extremist minority position becomes mainstream pretty quickly. And that is a big danger. As regards to Democratic progressive 30 lawmakers and their very inept letter and then withdrawal of the letter to the president, you know, clearly that was inept. But the word diplomacy shouldn't be a dirty word. At some point, there will be there will be diplomacy here. I mean,

wars, as Mika was kindly reading out, wars end in one of two ways, with unconditional surrender or a deal. And we're not going to we're not going to have an unconditional surrender of Putin's Russia. So eventually a deal will have to happen. It will be a deal on current trends that will be decisively in Ukraine's favor. But it's going to happen at some point. So I would differentiate the debate within the Democratic Party, which I think is very valid, to this pro-Put Putin tide that is rising in the Republican Party. All right. U.S. national editor at The Financial Times, Ed Luce, thank you very much for your insights this morning.

We appreciate it. And coming up, White House chief of staff Ron Klain will join us ahead of President Biden's economic speech in upstate New York today. Plus, our next guest says that if Republicans retake the House, they will impeach President Biden. And that just may be the tip of the iceberg. We'll explain straight ahead on Morning Joe. Republicans pitch Kevin McCarthy put out his pitch for they called it a commitment to America on this, and part of it in there was accountability. And it's kind of vague. But you've heard some of the details. And I know you've talked about the idea that there may be a special select committee. Do you expect an impeachment vote against President Biden if Republicans take over the House? I believe there's a lot of pressure on Republicans to have that vote, to put that that legislation forward and to have that vote. I think that is something that some folks are considering.

Wow. Again, I'm someone who wants to. Yeah, I want to follow the Constitution. It's really important. Oversight's important. That's Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina on Meet the Press just last month. Let's bring in staff writer for The Atlantic, Barton Gelman. He predicts in a new piece for the magazine, Republicans will impeach President Biden if the party retakes control of the House and that they might not stop there. Barton, good morning. It's good to see you. So let's start first with we can get to what the charge might be against Joe Biden in a moment. But if you talk privately, some of them say it out loud publicly. But when they step off the set, most Democrats concede the House is gone. It's just a question of the margin and by how much they're going to lose here in the next couple of weeks. If that is true and Republicans control the House,

there are a number of them. Some of them, by the way, have already tried to introduce articles of impeachment against him, but who have said they definitely will. What does that look like exactly? When do they start and what kind of pressure will they be under from Donald Trump, who, after all, is the boss from whom they take their orders? start and what kind of pressure will they be under from Donald Trump, who, after all, is the boss from whom they take their orders? Well, if you think about it, impeachment is sort of the mathematical corollary of the big lie. If you've been led to believe that the president is illegitimate, that he's in the White House and the Oval Office by cheating, then if you're not joining a militia, then the least of the remedies you'll accept is his removal. And so you already have the same two thirds of all Republicans who believe that Biden is illegitimate also support impeachment. And interestingly, well over half of Republicans

believe there will be impeachment. And House Republicans are going to ignore that sentiment at their peril. There is already going to be a considerable amount of pressure from the base for retribution for the impeachments of Donald Trump and for all the investigations of Trump. And you had, it's not well known, you just referred to it already in Biden's first two years he's been subject to close to a dozen impeachment resolutions. Marjorie Taylor Greene introduced one on the very first day of his presidency. You don't hear about them because with Republicans in control of the House, they simply disappear. I mean, Nancy Pelosi is not going to schedule floor time or referral to a committee for a resolution like that.

But Kevin McCarthy, whether he wants it or not, is not going to be able to ignore this pressure for impeachment. And as you write in the piece, Barton, there's an expectation among Republican voters that their representatives will undertake these articles of impeachment. You cite a UMass Amherst poll that shows almost 70 percent of Republicans say Joe Biden should be impeached. Seven out of 10 Republicans. So these congresspeople, these men and women feel like they are doing their jobs by introducing these articles of impeachment. And also because the president United States, let's be honest, could be indicted in the coming

weeks. So the the bar and the expectation, yes, yeah, the former president, excuse me, for the bar for the retribution, the stakes will will have been raised, which gets to the next question on what charges would they impeach Joe Biden? What is in front of them? What do they believe they can get him on? Well, first of all, to some extent, there are Republicans who say it doesn't even really matter, that impeachment is going to come in revenge for what was done to Trump. And Ted Cruz said, whether it's justified or not, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And so the exact specifications of the charge are to be determined. But something to do with Hunter Biden is one likely possibility. They are going to try to tie the president to the misadventures of his son in Ukraine, in China, his business dealings, and so on, there has yet to be any publicly known evidence

that ties the two together. But they'll certainly be looking. There have already been impeachment resolutions in the current Congress because of the disorderly withdrawal from Afghanistan, because of the extension of rent, a freeze on rent increases, because of the use of the strategic oil reserve, name your issue. But Republicans have not yet settled on which one is actually going to make Biden vulnerable enough. And I should mention impeachment is not Kevin McCarthy's plan.

It is the plan of important influential voices in the Freedom Caucus. And they are going to be amplified when Donald Trump gets around to talking about this. And my prediction is that Trump will call for Biden's impeachment. It's what he does. So, Barton, you mentioned Hunter Biden. Republicans think that even a flurry of investigations into the president's son may even impact Joe Biden's decision

whether or not to seek re-election because of the toll it will be taking on his family. But tell us a little bit more. It's going to be more than just an impeachment impact Joe Biden's decision whether or not to seek re-election because of the toll it would be taking on his family. But tell us a little bit more. It's going to be more than just an impeachment of Joe Biden in this scenario, right? Like they're going to go after cabinet members, Mayorkas, Mayorkas and others. They're just going to try to snarl up the White House with as many investigations as possible. Tell us a little bit about that. But also, is there a way where Democrats could use that to their advantage, pointing to Republican overreach? Well, exactly. That's the big political question. You put your finger on it. The Republicans are probably not going to start with Biden. What I hear most talk about is impeachment of the Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas for losing control of the

border, as Republicans see it, or as they sometimes accuse him of failing to enforce American law to stop illegal immigration. There have already been impeachment resolutions offered in the current term, also against Antony Blinken, against Merrick Garland, and against the vice president, Kamala Harris. Lauren Boebert came up with the interesting argument that Harris should be impeached for failure to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Biden from office. But if Republicans overreach, if they try to impeach Biden on grounds that the American public considers to be insufficient or trivial, then this could very well redound to Biden's benefit. That's what happened with Bill Clinton,

even though he had, in fact, lied under oath about Monica Lewinsky. When Congress, when the House impeached him, the American people didn't like it, and his popularity increased, and the Democrats did better in the next election cycle. And in case you thought Barton was exaggerating what Ted Cruz said, I just pulled it up. This is in January of this year on his podcast. When asked about impeachment, he said, I do think there's a chance of that, whether it's justified or not.

Quote, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And as you weigh all the reasons the Republicans say they may want to impeach Joe Biden, let's recall that President Trump was impeached twice, one for leading an attempted coup against the United States government to overturn an election and another time for trying to get political dirt on his opponents holding up aid to Ukraine. The piece online now for the Atlantic, Barton Gelman, with a bit of a disturbing look preview of coming attractions here next year. Barton, thanks so much. Coming up here, we'll have more reaction to Tuesday night's debate in the Pennsylvania Senate race

and the comments from two senators praising John Fetterman for taking the stage. Morning Joe is back in just a moment.