Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/27/23

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Manhunt for Maine shooting suspect enters second day

I have opposed efforts to ban deadly weapons of war like the assault rifle used to carry out this crime. The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure, which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown of Lewiston, Maine. For the good of my community, I will work with any colleague to get this done in the time that I have left in Congress. That's Democratic Congressman Jared Golden of Maine changing his position on gun reform following Wednesday's deadly mass shootings in his hometown. We'll have a live report from Lewiston, Maine, as the manhunt for the suspect is expanding this morning. Also ahead, we'll go through the major development out of the Middle East overnight,

the United States military carrying out airstrikes in Syria. This comes as Iran is threatening the U.S. in connection to the Israel-Hamas war. Good morning. Welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, October 27th. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief of Politico, Jonathan Lemire, former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department's Elise Jordan, president of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton, and U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kaye. Good morning to you all. I like that introduction and I'm wondering why it took so long for somebody to learn, you know, come up with a George W. What? Yeah, it was unintentional. I know.

This is a catchphrase. If you had only done it 16 years earlier, 17 years earlier, everybody would have been saying it. First of all, so that was Congressman Goldman out of out of Maine, Golden after a terrible, horrific slaughter. The same thing happened after Parkland. He's a Democrat. You had a Republican, Brian Mast, in Florida decide after that slaughter that he would also support military style and so-called assault weapons ban. And guess what? A Republican in a really Trumpy area did it, paid no price. That's why even when people are saying, oh, they're not going to do it because the people at home won't let them do it. That's not true. After Sandy Hook, there were Republicans all across Connecticut that did it. And, you know, this this is just again, it's just so maddening. You look at the New York Post and, you know, definition of insanity as opposed to saying he heard voices.

Yet was free to have it looks like an AR-15 to kill 18 people. That's I mean, that is the definition of insanity. And and it keeps it keeps happening. Yeah, I mean, you could ask Congressman Golden, you know, he has a change of heart yesterday if why it wasn't any of the previous mass shootings with AR-15s that didn't change his mind. But when it comes to your doorstep, clearly it has hit him in a way and it hits anyone in a way, whether it's the Pulse nightclub shooting or Las Vegas, or as you said, Sandy Hook, it touches the people where it happens. And so perhaps there will be some change. We talked about extensively yesterday that Maine, as you know, Joe, is a gun state. You know, there are a lot big culture of hunting and culture of sportsmanship and all that. So we'll see if there's change. But but I think most people agree with your point, which is

someone who is committed to a mental health facility for two weeks. Come on, man. Last summer probably should have a red flag next to it. Yeah, exactly. And people and I've got to say, when I hear people talking about how red flag laws are violations of the Second Amendment, they're either stupid or they're just liars. I mean, they're either stupid or they're so completely ignorant about what the Second Amendment is and what it is not. And I would say I've got I'm glad when people make the move, Elise. I mean, I did after Sandy Hook. And when I did, I did based on the fact that just over the decade leading into Sandy Hook, there was one mass shooting after another mass shooting. And I've got to say, the weapon of choice is an AR-15. For crazy people, the weapon of choice is to go in, get an AR-15, shoot up schools, shoot up bowling alleys, shoot up churches.

That's the weapon of choice. And if it's not going to be banned, why, it can't be tightly, tightly regulated. So if you're going in to get an AR-15, man, you're going to have to pass, that is no violation, that is no violation of the Second Amendment. Well, what's upsetting is that having an assault rifle is conflated with having a shotgun and being a hunter. People in Maine can still hunt and can still have access to guns. They just don't need access to high magazine, high capacity magazines and the magazines. And by the way, by the way, at least you from Mississippi, me from Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, we grew up around guns. It was in our culture. Wasn't anybody I went to in church

that didn't go. They all everybody went hunting. And yet when all of these killings started happening, they all said the same thing. These hunters whose dads had taken them hunting when they were five years old, and it was a part of their lives. Had guns all over the house, locked, safe, you know, everywhere I went. Go in, people have shotguns on the walls, locked up in a case. But, you know, I'd ask every one of those people, you need one of these military style things.

Are you kidding me? So this whole great lie told by the NRA and politicians to protect hedge fund companies' profits that have all gone in to buy these companies that make AR-15s. It is all a lie and it's all a lie for money. It's all about money. They are sacrificing. You know, we're looking at the horrors visited upon Israel and talking. Israel. And talking about I'm talking about Hamas has to be destroyed. Here we see this in our country day after day, week after week, month after month. And nobody and you have these Republicans going, oh, you know what?

Mental health. OK, fund mental health. Oh, well, no, we're not going to fund mental health. You know, or oh, it's you know, it's not it's not the weapon. And then Susan Collins yesterday, it's not the weapon. We need to look at the magazine. Come on. It's harder to get certain prescription drugs than to get a gun. And there are no, what about with a car? You have to have a license. You have to pass a test. Guns are just free flowing in this country. And we have to expect this is going to happen again and again and again, unless something is done. It just keeps happening this country. And we are we have to expect this is going to happen again and again and again unless something just keeps happening, John. And authorities in Maine have not been able to identify all the victims because the damage on some of the bodies is so great because of the

weapon that was used. You know, Maine is a yellow flag state. But effort to pass red flag laws was defeated in the last couple of years, Rev. And we heard about mental health. We also heard the new Speaker of the House yesterday say in an interview, this is not the right time to talk about gun legislation. This simply shouldn't be our focus right now. And he offered up prayers. He said we should be praying. And no solutions, only prayers.

You're a man of the cloth. It seems to me that more of the prayers here is needed. Prayer without work is a dead thing. That's in the Bible. We've been praying since the first carnage. When are we going to do the work? I didn't grow up in Mississippi or Alabama. My mother did. But I grew up in Brooklyn, where we lived under siege. That is now the people in Maine's condition. And when are we going to stop this from urban to rural areas? This young man, if I can say young man, had a mental health problem that we're not even able to get this Congress to pursue background checks, less known red flags, not even background checks. So there's not even a deposit on getting fair by this Congress. And for the new speaker to say this is not the time, it tells us what kind of speaker he's going to be in this time.

If you've got a guy still at large after killing almost 20 people and this is not the time, then it is time to get these people out of office. Yeah, I mean, it keeps happening over and over again. And they say it's never the time we I mean, how many mass shootings we had? What are we supposed to give a week? No, no. Actually, the time to talk about it is after kids are getting gunned down and destroyed and and people are getting gunned down in bowling alleys. Their loved ones can't even identify them because they've been so mangled by the bullets. It's what we heard was so haunting about Sandy Hook is the parents going in, seeing their six year old children and not being able to even recognize them because the guns have destroyed them so much.

And here we are, Caddy K. Willie showed the daily news, but here's the list. Vegas Music Fest, 60 people gunned down going to see a country music festival. Pulse Nightclub, 49. Virginia Tech, 32. Sandy Hook, 26. the Baptist Church. I think it was in Texas. 26, Luby's. 23, a Walmart in Texas. 23, San Diego. 22, Lewiston, Maine. 18 with the shooter still on the run. And the overall I mean, look at this. Look again, the AR-15 people you say, oh, you're just banning something because of the cosmetics of it. It's just again, it's a lie. It's a lie. The AR-15 was designed to be the most effective killing machine in the jungles of Vietnam. And Congress didn't adapt it for political reasons, but it was meant it was developed to hunt human beings.

And it would. And that does, of course, Katty, I'm just going to ask you the perennial question or actually the monthly question. Where where else does this happen? But the United States talk about London, London talk about, you know, other other big cities across Europe. It just doesn't happen. They have mental health problems in France. They have mental health problems in the UK. They have mental problem health problems, as far as I'm aware, in Germany and Italy and Korea and China and the Philippines and Brazil and Mexico and Nigeria. What don't they have? They don't have mass shootings. And they don't have mass shootings because people do not have access to the kinds of weapons that can kill people in large numbers at high speed in other countries around the world.

They don't. And in countries around the world where they have had mass shootings, like in Australia and in the UK, they've put in place regulation afterward that means that since those mass shootings, which happened decades ago, they have not had any more mass shootings since. The United States can do this. It can choose to do this, like it did back in 1994. And in that 10-year period from 1994 to 2004,

guess what? You were 70% less likely to die from a mass shooting in the United States than you were before the assault weapons ban or after the assault weapons ban. So you had a window in this country where you tried to regulate this. You successfully regulated assault weapons ban. Not not perfectly. They were not all taken off the streets, but enough of them were taken off the streets that Americans didn't have to fear being killed in the kind of shooting we've just seen in Maine. So as we talk about it, it is a choice. And Willie, as you held up the headline, I mean, this is we don't have we don't have to do this. No. And the suspect here, Mr. Card, bought legally this sniper rifle.

It's a sniper rifle that he purchased. Despite everything we now know about the trouble he was having and having been committed to a mental health institution, his family raising concerns as well. He's still on the run. The manhunt continues this morning for the suspected gunman in the Lewiston, Maine mass shootings. Roughly 50,000 people remain under lockdown across the state after the 40-year-old suspect killed at least 18 people and injured 13 at a bowling alley and bar Wednesday night. Eight victims were killed at the bar, seven at the bowling alley, and three died at area hospitals. An arrest warrant has been issued for the suspect, charging him with eight counts of murder

based on the identification of eight victims so far. Search warrants were executed at a number of locations yesterday throughout the nearby town of Bowdoin, where the suspect lives. Four senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News a note was found at the suspect's home during a search. Investigators are trying to determine the meaning of that note and how it might be able to guide their investigation. The U.S. Coast Guard,

meanwhile, also is joining the search effort. The suspect owns a boat and at least one jet ski, leading to questions as to whether he could have fled across the water. Remember, he left his car at a boat dock in Lisbon. Investigators also were looking into whether a gun found in the suspect's car was the same one used in the shootings. The weapon is believed to be a sniper rifle purchased legally this year, according to officials. Law enforcement also looking into whether a female acquaintance of the suspect

who frequented the bar may have been a reason the suspect targeted that location. Let's bring in NBC News correspondent Antonia Hilton. She joins us live from Lewiston. Antonia, what's the latest there? Hey, Willie. Well, thousands of people here in Lewiston, but we're hearing actually all throughout the state of Maine, have been hunkered down at home. Businesses closed, schools out for the second day in a row. And when I talk to residents, they describe a combination of extreme shock and excruciating grief here, in part because it's hard to really pick up the pieces, to grieve together when you're on lockdown at home. People are turning out their lights at night, fearful that he might be out there in the woods looking for another target,

a home to come and visit. They've been locking up their barns, locking up their cars. And so the pain here is immense. I had a conversation with one resident yesterday who was actually here at the medical center. This is the primary center where victims have been treated. Three people are still in critical condition behind me here. Three people passed away here. And this resident, a woman named Cynthia Hunter, was here outside of the emergency room watching as minutes after 7 p.m., after these shootings had unfolded, people started to arrive. she saw both young people and adults coming in in critical condition. And just to see that, you know, in a community where people don't even really lock their doors, where people have grown up here. You know, she is 64 years old, but has lived here her entire life, used to hang out at some of these spots when she was a teenager.

And so this realization that now things are forever changed, you know, people are going to be altering their routines, buying ring cameras. We've heard that from several people as well, that they're going to think about their security and their community in an entirely different way. And I know that this is a story that we've seen, you know, as you guys just talked about, you know, transpire across this country and touch people. But it is, you know, in such a small area to have such a high number of casualties. I mean, almost approaching the number of casualties that you see in the state of Maine in an entire year. It's really hard to put into words just how shocking all of this is. And, you know, keep in mind, people are seeing armored vehicles go through

their neighborhoods. They watched last night as police executed some of these search warrants. It's making it hard again to grieve when there's still such an active threat here. And, you know, we're going to be talking to folks all day as they hope this doesn't turn into what we saw just happen in Pennsylvania, where there is a manhunt that extends and extends and this community just can't find peace. Yeah, that was a two week manhunt, so we'll hope this ends sooner than that. NBC's Antonia Hilton in Lewiston, Maine. Antonia, thanks so much. Joe, just reading about some of the early names of victims,

they have been identified, a father and a son at a bowling night, 14-year-old son, 10-year-old grazed by a bullet. Her life, of course, changed forever. This was a youth bowling night where parents and kids were bowling together. And and it happened in Maine, a state that is, I think it's the safest state as far as acts of violence go. I think I read that in the Times yesterday. And it's also a gun owning state. People, people own guns. A lot of hunting in Maine. And those two things can go together. But the idea that, again, we red flag laws are defeated, voted down in that state. The

fact that 90 percent of Americans want universal background checks and Republicans are blocking that. The fact that overwhelming majority of Americans want red flag laws. Republicans are blocking that fact that a majority of Americans do want to ban military style weapons. Republicans are blocking that. They won't even talk about regulating them to make sure that people like this don't get those weapons. And it keeps happening time and time and time again. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for deranged shooters who want to go kill a lot of people because they have mental health problems or because they're angry and they want to shoot up schools. It's just it's and Katty K, we talk so much on this show about America's reputation across the globe being shattered by being shattered by what's going on inside of Congress, what's happening with Donald Trump. But you tell me that when it comes to people asking you questions about America and like what the hell's wrong with that place,

guns is at the top of that list. Every single time, every single time, the thing that people ask me about living in the United States is aren't I afraid to live in a country where there are mass shootings? And they say they would never do it because the fear of living here and the chance of being killed by a mass shooter is too high. But the thing that I think really erodes America's reputation is people are smart. They look at the polling in America. People understand what's happening in this country. And they see that the polls show that the American public wants action on this thing. So what I'm asked is, well, hold on a second. If time and again, we see from the polls show that the American public wants action on this thing. So what I'm asked is, well, hold on a second. If time and again we see from the polls that 70, 80 percent of people

want to do something about it, why can't the country fix it? And I think that's where it's the real, almost, that's as much the threat to America's reputation, is this idea that it's not working somehow. It's not working as a democracy should work, right? Governments should reflect the will of their people. And time again on this issue, as on abortion, it doesn't reflect the will of their people.

And it's a real, people look at Congress and they don't really understand debt ceilings and they don't really understand lockdowns. This issue, they understand. And it comes up so often that it chips away at America's reputation as a desirable place to send your students, your kids to be students, or as a desirable place to go and live and work

and do business. And look at this Fox News poll. 87% of Americans support universal background check. Checks, 81% of Americans support enforcing existing gun laws. 81% support raising the age to 21 as a requirement for gun purchases. 80% mental health care requirements. 80% red flag laws. You get people on the far right talking about red flag laws, you would think Adolf Hitler drafted the legislation. 30-day waiting period, 77% support that. And even again, on military-style weapons, so-called assault weapons ban, a majority of Americans support that.

And again, it's just like abortion. Overwhelming majority of Americans oppose the overturning of Roe v. Wade for decades. Was never a close call. And yet you've got Republicans, Willie, that really don't give a damn what the majority wants. They know what they're going to do. And all of this in the face of I talked about how I I changed so many of my positions on gun safety after Sandy Hook because of the spate from Aurora, the movie theater, like on and on all of the shootings leading up to Sandy Hook. Well, in the 10 years since Sandy Hook, mass shootings have exploded. Gun deaths have exploded. I mean, things have gotten precipitously worse since Sandy Hook. Yeah. And actually, that poll that we're talking about, that Fox News poll was taken this year right after the Covenant shooting,

where three nine year olds were killed at a little school in nashville and you're right we we all have you know live among hunters and people with guns and all that stuff and you ask them about the ar-15 after all these and you say why do you need the ar-15 to go it's cool it's badass it blows things up it vaporizes things you shoot you know what i mean it's a it's a it's fun But we have to weigh as a society that versus what we're seeing. Get a Nerf dart gun. What we're seeing. I mean, seriously, the stupidity of that, because I hear that a lot, too. I mean, you know. And these stories keep happening. It's fun and fun is worth, you know, the fun's worth these people continuing to get killed, shot up in school. Now, what they won't tell you is there are a group of people who want to have them just in case they have to kill police officers that come to their house in case they have to kill, you know, American military men or women that come to their house because they believe the government's going to take over the country.

They want to be able to shoot army people and our Marines coming to their house and vaporize them. Yeah, they're ready for the war. Which, again, the stupidest, stupidest argument. You know, if that war ever came and it won't, but if it ever did, AR-15 is not going to stop a drone that's going to hover over the house and like vaporize the house. So that's the gun side of it. Let's talk about the mental health piece of this story in Maine. We're getting new details about the suspect's mental health. His sister-in-law tells NBC News the man began to hear voices that were saying, quote,

horrible things when he was fitted for high powered hearing aids a few months ago. She added the suspect's mental health deteriorated quickly after that, and the family attempted to reassure him what he was hearing was not true. However, she says, quote, it turned into a main manic belief. The family says it alerted police and military officials. The suspect was experiencing acute mental health episode before the Wednesday night massacre. Two senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News the suspect's military unit commander sent him to inpatient psychiatric treatment this summer after they became concerned about threats he made to the base and his claims he was hearing voices. He spent about two weeks undergoing inpatient psychiatric treatment and was released.

It's not clear what further action was taken, if any. However, as we've been saying, under Maine law, the suspect still was able to buy legally and keep possession of the gun believed to be used in this week's shootings. He reportedly bought that weapon earlier this year before his military officers sent him away for psychiatric treatment. Join us now. The former FBI supervisor, former member of FBI's hostage rescue team, Rob D'Amico. He's founder of Sierra One Consulting and has over 26 years of experience in the FBI and U.S. Marine Corps. Rob, let me just start with the pursuit of this man, the manhunt that's been going on now for a couple of days. Based on what we know, based on how long it

has already been, where do you think this expanded search has gone now and how long might it take to find him? I think the key is figuring out the car that he was in is at the boat ramp. Did he switch to another vehicle? Did he actually switch to a boat or did he go on foot? Hopefully they have some indication if there is a vehicle missing that that they found that out. If he planted a vehicle there, it may not be as easy to understand if he got into that. But that really defines the area of the search. If he has a vehicle and he had an hour head start and he's doing 70 miles an hour. And now it's just several days later. If he got into a boat, where did he go into a boat?

Is there another ramp that he could have gone to with another vehicle to throw us off? Or if he went into the woods on foot. And all of those have different issues in finding them. And it's a very dangerous issue if you're looking for him on foot because of the possibility of an ambush. If he had a vehicle, how far out did he get? So those are the keys to it, but they might not have the clues. It's so tough, as you saw in Pennsylvania. I was a part of looking for Eric Rudolph for several times down in the mountains of North Carolina.

And those took a long, long time. So, Rob, talk to us about some of the challenges of this search here. Looking for a suspect who knows the area, knows it well. This is his hometown, his home turf. He also does have military training. And then we spoke to Clint Watzel earlier this morning. He also suggests the idea that sometimes shooters like this end up taking their own lives. Do you think there's a possibility that could have happened as well?

I do. It could be there. I think he had this whole thing in his head and the ending. I think he has. And the ending I see in almost three ways. One, he went to a favorite spot in the woods somewhere where he hiked and camped and maybe his family could help us out with that.

And he went and ended his life and it's going to take a long time to find him. I think the other one is he wants a confrontation with police, almost suicide by cop, that he has this standoff pictured in his mind that he actually wants to execute. And he's going to wait for the law enforcement to find him, and then he's going to carry that out. Or if he gets pinned, if he gets trapped down and he figures there's no way out, then he's going to carry that out. Or if he gets pinned, if he gets trapped down and he figures there's no way out, then he's going to kill himself. But I think it's one of those three.

And they're all dangerous for law enforcement. Normal ballistic vests don't stop the 5.56 round that he has in that AR-15. So you have to wear a metal plate and metal plates only cover very specific areas because they're so heavy. So a lot of the police officers, except for the tactical teams, don't even have those plates. And if you're looking for them, there's a long distance out. I would hope that we could somehow use technology at night, maybe a thermal imagery off a helicopter to find him moving. So that way we can find him at a distance and then figure out the safest way to confront him. And remember, that ultimately was how they found the guy in Pennsylvania with that thermal imaging you're talking about. Found him at night. Rob, I'm curious. You've served this country for so long and with such distinction in the Marine Corps and the FBI.

What you think about a man like this that we're talking about, this suspect being able, given his history of mental health and everything else, being able to get an AR-15 and cause the kind of horrific damage that he has caused? As everyone says, this is the perfect example of who shouldn't have an AR-15, who shouldn't have a weapon. And I think you really have to look at, did he buy it just before he got institutionalized or did he buy it after? Both ways, he shouldn't have obviously had it. If he bought it just before, then was there some type of system to say, hey, this guy went into a mental health facility and he has firearms from the past or just bought them that we need to have that red flag law? Or did he buy them after where if you went into a mental health institution, would there have been some check in his background?

If we had a background check that would say, hey, wait a second, he just went into a mental institution, whatever. He has to wait so long to actually buy a weapon where he's denied to buy a weapon. I think both of them, he doesn't deserve it. But I think both of them have specifics that you have to address. Did he buy it before? And then you would have to take it away from him. Or could you prevent him from buying it after that stint in the medical institution? I mean, everybody said something. His supervisors in the military, his family, they all yelled from the rooftops. And yet here we are. Former FBI supervisor Rob D'Amico. Rob, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Still ahead on Morning Joe,

we'll play for you the new House speaker's comments on the tragedy in Maine and what he had to say about preventing the government from shutting down next month. Plus, the latest developments out of the Middle East, including the U.S. military airstrikes in Syria in retaliation for drone attacks on American bases. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. We are receiving information about this horrific tragedy. It has moved everyone in the Congress, as you might imagine. Our hearts go out to all those involved. The families, of course, of the victims.

And we're so grateful for law enforcement. We trust and hope and pray that they're able to apprehend this individual as quickly as possible. There's no more injury or loss of life. At the end of the day, the problem is the human heart. It's not guns. It's not the weapons. At the end of the day, we have to protect the right of the citizens to protect themselves. And that's the Second Amendment. And that's why our party stands so strongly for that.

This is not the time to be talking about legislation. We're in the middle of that crisis right now. When is the time? House Speaker Mike Johnson is calling this week's mass shooting and made a tragedy. But it's not the time, he says, to talk about new gun safety legislation. It's never the time. And the problem is the human heart. It's not made time, is it, Willie? And the problem is the human heart. It's not made of steel, and it can't repel the bullets.

No, the problem's not with the human heart. Let me get confirmation from Caddy. Caddy, do they have human hearts in Britain and France and Germany and Spain? And by the way, do they have video games there? Do they have mental health? Again, we can go through all of this. Speaker says and these people who want to go against 90 percent of America, it's not about this. It's not it's not about the guns. It's about this, that or the other.

Again, there's nothing he can say that doesn't apply to Britain. Nothing. I mean, of course we have hearts and video games and mental health problems. America is, you know, exceptional in many ways, but it is not exceptional in that way. People are frail and have mental health problems and have frail human hearts and have video games that they play.

And there are teenage boys and angry young men. Most of these mass shooters seem to be men and seem to be angry or seem to be disturbed in some way. And there are plenty of those, I can tell you, walking around England as well. The only difference is what we were talking about. What do they do if you're an angry young man in Europe? You play cricket. You might box. You start neo-Nazi parties.

I mean, come on, it's not that. No, they're angry young men in Europe. And you've got to look at the growth of some of these parties. But they don't go out, Rev, and get a gun and shoot people up. And I'm going to say also, let's talk about the other side of this story. We talk about the mass shootings because they are just so horrific, but also the controlling of handguns where 5%, maybe 7% of guns that are used in shootings are actually owned by the person shooting the gun.

That's another thing that I just never figured out why Republicans don't want to work more aggressively to sweep up illegal guns, because that accounts for the overwhelming majority of shootings. You know, when we see all the people killed in Chicago and Philadelphia and L.A. and New York on these long weekends. No, it is definitely trafficking illegal guns that there has been no real aggressive way to deal with. And then when you hear this incoming speaker talk about, well, we've got to deal with the fact that people have to protect themselves. Well, Mr. Speaker, how do you protect yourself in a bowling alley? You're supposed to roll the bowl and hold the AR-15 while you're standing there to see if you knock all the pins down or not. I mean, it's absurd.

When you look at what just happened, how would they defend themselves in that situation? And are we supposed to arm everybody with military weapons? They do not. I mean, when we talk about this man hearing voices and there was no red flags, there was no background check. There's no way you defend yourself against people that may be in a state that they're not in their right mind, but they can get military style weapons that can kill multiple people.

How do you defend yourself against that? mind, but they can get military style weapons that can kill multiple people. How do you defend yourself against that? And again, the extremism is unbelievable, at least the extremism that has been revved up by whether you're talking about the NRA or other gun owners of America, you know, saying that red flag laws are somehow against the Second Amendment. That's a lie. The Second Amendment, you know, the second amendment says the second amendment says what the court said it said in hell or back in 2008 which is you have a right to have a handgun in your home you have a right to have a shotgun in your home to protect yourself that's your constitutional right outside of that it's up to the states it's up to the states. It's up to the people. What I find so upsetting is just that these guns are so they can kill so many people without stopping to reload.

And that's just a function of what we allow to be on the market. You end the high volume magazines and you end at least as much of the slaughter as quickly. And you give the cops a chance to come in. Some of these guns that are used, you can't even buy a vest over the commercial market that's going to protect. They'll just pierce the armor. It's sick. It's disgusting. And we just heard again that police officers are often outgunned, that they can't match

up when a suspect has one of these weapons. And it's a moment of such limited political courage. The NRA is a diminished organization from where it has been, really. It's had a leadership crisis, funding crisis, but it's become such a cultural issue for some on the right. To your point of paranoia about them coming to get us, we've heard it even when the IRS was being expanded, people were talking about the need to have senators. Senators were talking about that. Chuck Grassley was talking about that. And yes, we should note there was some bipartisan modest legislation was passed last year. That's a good that was good. That was even those. But even those involved with that process recognize it was a very small and inadequate first.

There's a first step. But, you know, we didn't even put a Voldy wasn't even on the list from the daily news. And and and, you know, I had a conversation with somebody last summer where, you know, because, again, I'm conservative and I had a A plus rating with NRA and all the gun groups. And so, you know. I believed what I believed. I do the arguments. And so now that I've, you know, post Sandy Hook, realized that some of these things are just extreme and the body counts just keep piling up, you know, I'll often have people, you know, start to debate me on it. Why did you change? Why did this? Why did that? And they take like red flag laws or they take some other laws and and they say, you know, add all of this up. And it's just like Hitler.

It's what Hitler did. It's what Pol Pot did. It's what Stalin did. They took away all the guns. And so you've got the government that has all the power now. You had hundreds and hundreds of police officers standing outside of the Evaldi Elementary School. Well, one guy had a weapon that slaughtered those little children and none of the police officers would go in because you're talking about the government having all the power. No, we've we've had Republicans now allow America to live in a place where one crazy person, one crazy person on their 18th birthday can go buy a gun and slaughter little children in schools. And the police officers, the state sits outside helplessly because they're outgunned. Now, if anybody thinks

that that is a safe situation where where they want crazy people with military style weapons that were developed to hunt humans in the jungles of Vietnam, being able to outgun Texas law officers. Well, I think you live in a different country than me. I mean, you're just you're you're absolutely crazy. Let me find the camera. You're absolutely crazy. And you're letting little kids continue to be killed. And this is simple. This is this is black. This is a choice. The slaughter of these little children, the slaughter of people at bowling family nights, a slaughter of Baptists in churches, the slaughter of people at country music festivals, a slaughter of people at synagogues. That is a choice that you're making. And really, it's a choice that they're making because.

A money. It's all about money and it's all about political fear. And most people in this country, look at the poll again, don't want to live this way. No, there's a small minority. A lot of them happen to be the United States Congress who say this is the price of freedom. This is the price of the Second Amendment. Sometimes you're going to lose some little kids in a school in Uvalde or in Nashville or in Connecticut. It just happens.

We have to protect our right. And I would just say to this new speaker, he makes the point about it's the human heart and not the gun. In this case, we're just talking about the human mind. If someone is that troubled and that many people say, hey, this guy's got a problem, perhaps he shouldn't have access to a high powered semi-automatic rifle. That's what people are saying here. All right. Coming up in 2018, then President Trump bragged about U.S. GDP growth at 3.2 percent. Well, man, that would be great if you could do that. We've been stuck in the twos forever, right?

One's the twos. So, yeah, 3.2. I got to say, I agree with Donald Trump. If any president that could get it to 3.2, we'd be doing a pretty good job. Well, under President Biden, that number now at nearly 5 percent. George W. what? That's my new catchphrase. We'll show you how the administration is celebrating the sharp increase.

Morning Joe will be right back. When you're singing that song, yeah. I got a lump in my throat because you're gonna sing the words wrong. But you look at GDP at 3.2 percent, and I think they're going to go much higher. I mean, we're doing so well. But if I would have said 3.2 percent to those people back there, nobody would have believed it. I wouldn't have believed it, Willie. He's right. I wouldn't have believed it. You can't get to 3.2 percent these days. Nobody would have believed it, Willie. He's right, I wouldn't have believed it. You can't get to 3.2% these days.

Nobody would have believed it. That's then-President Trump, 2018, touting a 3.2% gross domestic product. Nobody would have believed it. That is good. Yesterday, we learned the GDP rose at nearly 5% in the third quarter, beating expectations. Wow.

Nearly half of that growth came from consumer spending. In a statement released yesterday, President Biden said, in part, I never believed we would need a recession to bring inflation down. And we saw again the American economy continues to grow even as inflation has come down. Caddy, I wouldn't believe I mean, the number came across. I thought it was a mistake. I really did. The first breaking news, because we just don't that's you know, we used to see stuff like that.

What in the 60s? Couple a couple of times in the 80s. But that's that's extraordinarily well. And again, asking this time to compare America favorably to the continent and to Great Britain. Those are just numbers that that you just don't see in the EU or across the world. Yeah. Nowhere is booming like America. I mean, thank God for Americans love of buying stuff because that's what's fueling this. We are Taylor Swift, apparently, is part of the reason to the areas in and of itself has bumped up our GDP. So shout out from the Fed chair to Taylor Swift. But yeah, it's all driven by consumer spending on services and on goods. That is not happening. You're right. Across Europe, the numbers of both growth, growth is lower. Unemployment is higher. Inflation is still higher

in Europe than it is here in the United States. It was a great summer. Let's hope that we can keep it going through winter when we know that interest rates are still high. I mean, the question is now, how does the Fed respond? Does it decide that it gets nervous about this uptick in growth and thinks, well, we've got to keep the brakes on because that's going to drive up inflation again? Let's see how they respond to it. But let's celebrate our love of stuff. A love of stuff. USA, USA. You know, the Fed, what makes this so remarkable is the Fed has been trying like with with a stick to beat down the U.S. economy now for well over a year, trying to drive down economic growth, trying trying to slow down the rate of inflation.

And the economy just keeps growing. And, you know, it's a week. We'll have Andrew Sorkin on here. I'll talk to other economists. I'll talk to people that run big banks. I'll talk to two attorneys that focus on on on work for, you know, on this side of the ledger. And they're all shocked. They're shocked that this economy keeps growing. So I guess the question is, and we'll bring it in to Mike Allen. But first, Mike, do you have anything to say to our audience across the fruited plains? I do. It's hard in these times for the world and for the country.

But for you and your family, Joe, happy Friday. There it is. Boom. We can all and your family, Joe, happy Friday. It is. We can all go home. That's exactly. Thank you so much for being the weekend. Good morning, Joe. I hope you have a good weekend. Mike. So here's the thousand dollar question. I mean, you compare the United States economy, the Britain's economy, the France's economy, to any economies across the world in the West. And we're doing so much better. There's no doubt about it. And yet you look at the polls and Joe Biden is getting no credit for this at all. The whole Bidenomics rollout deal was a complete

disaster. It's crazy. These numbers, you know, you ask people, are you better now, better off now than you were a year ago? And 75 percent will say, oh, yeah, we're doing better. The next question will be, how is the economy doing? Everybody will go, oh, it's just absolutely terrible. It's the worst it's ever been. And it's going to get even the negativity does not line up with what people are seeing in their own bank accounts. Why? Yeah, Joe, that's a great point. Negativity versus reality. And a couple of data points for your viewers to consider.

And the backdrop is going into this year through much of this year, an almost certainty about a recession was baked into so many projections. Now, very low likelihood of a recession. So why do people feel so differently? One, Joe, there's new morning consult polling out this morning in Axios that shows a real gap in expectations based on income. So if you make more than $100,000 a year, you are feeling much better about the economy. Why is that? The stock market, the layoffs in tech have sort of backed off. And if you make $50,000 to $100,000, there's a gulf between your feelings about the economy. And then if you make zero to 50, even less. So that's one

thing to watch. Second, the problem for the White House is that so many voters are not making their decision on the economy. And the problem is the ones who are most likely to make a decision on the economy, and this is true in poll after poll, they're the ones who are most bearish on the presidency. What else is out there? A stunning number from Gallup this month, just out yesterday of October polling showing the president at 75% among Democrats. That's a low. Joe, that should be close to a hundred. It's 75. The reasons aren't all clear. One of them is the poll was in the field when the president made his trip to Israel. There definitely is obviously split about that among Democrats. Real split among Democrats regarding Israel. And and and maybe you see that in the poll. I will say, as Mike said, helpfully, if you're making under $100,000 a year,

which in the past was certainly more than enough to take care of your family, if you're making under $100,000 a year, housing prices are absolutely extraordinary. Rent prices have exploded. When the interest rates go up and mortgage rates go up to eight percent. You're making under one hundred thousand dollars. You've got a family of four. You're not buying a house. I mean, we have there's a story in the Times. I think yesterday a woman who's making under one hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. Housing prices are certainly skyrocketed. Inflation, though, has cooled is still higher. People are still feeling that that's people that's people are still grappling with that.

And poll after poll suggests that Americans don't feel great about the economy and they don't think the president's done a good job. And the president, the White House point to metric after metric, including the GDP number yesterday. That's just that's simply not true. Right. And Mike, you know, we were just mentioning the Bidenomics rollout. They acknowledge White House. That didn't that didn't really work. So they have shifted. They're trying to shift the conversation around the economy now. But you just actually hinted at where I wanted to go with you is there's a real growing and worrisome for those in the West Wing enthusiasm problem around this president, particularly among young voters. We mentioned certainly the Israel Palestinian issue is a significant one, but it predated that. And it's a number that's not

turning around. It's only getting worse so far for this West Wing. How the Democrats you speak to, what is their level of alarm and how what's the chart they would propose the course that he should take to change it? Jonathan, it's high, as you well know, for your own conversation. And what's the root of it? Talk about it on the show every day. A stunning percentage of Democrats don't want the president to run. We have a presidential election coming where a big chunk of both parties don't want their leading candidate to be running at all. That is tough to overcome. If they don't want you running, tough to say the right thing for them. And what I hear behind the scenes from Democrats, when you get Democrats off the record, you ask them about the president. The most common thing

I hear, and I know you hear this in your conversations too, is what are you going to do? Like that's the Democratic view. And that's the opportunity for this White House is you've got to turn that around. You've got to make that you've got to ignite an inspiring message. There's a year and a week to do that. And you're right. They're completely focused on it, but got to try something new. No way to sugarcoat that. Well, they've got to bring it together to their base. That's that's the first step. And Rev, we had this discussion last night. Young voters not inspired by Joe Biden, black voters, the numbers just aren't there for Joe Biden. Hispanic voters, Latino voters, the numbers just aren't there for Joe Biden. Donald Trump, if things keep going, is going to be the next president of the United States if Joe Biden and the White House

team doesn't figure out how to inspire young voters, black voters and Hispanic voters to go out and not just vote, but vote at record numbers. I think that it is clear that he needs to have a new strategy, if not a new team that's dealing with his messaging that can target in these areas that we're not seeing the enthusiasm. Black voters, young voters, Latino voters with a direct message. Black unemployment is lower than it's ever been. But you know who doesn't really understand that? Black voters, because no one is saying that to them. How many times a day would Donald Trump be saying that, if that were the case?

How many times a day? Well, he'd probably be saying it often. It just wouldn't be true. I know, but I'm saying if Trump had Biden's numbers, he'd be talking about him all day. That's all I'd be talking about. He would be saying greatest economy ever, greatest economy ever. I saw Trump do this when he had like the seventh best GDP economy since the end of the Second World War.

But he kept saying and then the media started saying, well, of course, this is the best economy ever. But Biden is not hammering that message home. And I mean, you can do two things at once. You can say best economy ever while you're going after Donald Trump for being a crook. No, I can say as a preacher, the worst thing in the world is to have a good message and the messenger is not getting it out. And that's what's happening. He has something to argue, even though we still have unequal parts of unemployment. Black unemployment is higher than white. It's still lower than it's ever been. Students, we were the ones that put through student loans and the Republican stack.

Supreme Court stopped us from doing it. Why aren't you targeting that message? Right. I think they have something that they can put forward. They are not doing it and take on the opponent and say, yes, right now, Donald Trump will be president and we'll have to get on the federal prison visitors list to talk to him. I mean, I would take him right on. And I think that people don't understand an indirect message. You have to go straight at it. And I think people around them needs to stop protecting him and start really throwing them out there and throw blows. It was Donald Trump, at least, whose Supreme Court killed the student loan relief that Joe Biden tried to push through. It was Donald Trump who bragged about killing Roe v. Wade, bragged about

it time and time again, ending Roe v. Wade. These are about as strong a messages for for young voters on college campuses and and in their 20s as there is. Well, Democrats have a new Republican speaker. They can trot out his past statements and say, this is who is representing the Republican Party. It feeds into Biden's message that the Republican Party is so extreme in this era, which a message which is arguably true. Right. But that's just what he needs to keep hammering home there. Republicans have given a gift in such an anti-choice speaker. Oh, my gosh. Mike Allen and some of the other views are just so extreme.

That's right. And the speaker has a number of other problems. Axios has reporting up about the grudges that are going on just within the Republican conference, let alone trying to make a deal with Democrats and the president to stop a government shutdown, which is coming three weeks from today, 21 days from today. And second, like on the politics, you talk to big donors, the, the clips that we've been seeing of this speaker on this show, we see what he said last night when he was saying that a crisis isn't the time to talk about change.

Like, I can tell you the people who wrote the big checks that Kevin McCarthy was very strong with and built a record setting Republican machine like that machine is now at risk. That's something that worries people all across the party. You have a speaker who's not going to be great with the big checks and they're looking at a Donald Trump nominee. If you're looking at the long term of the party, if you're looking at the long term of the bank account, you're worried. All right.

Co-founder of Axios, Mike Allen. Thank you. And happy Friday to you. Thank you, Joe. And Mike brings up a great point on the big donors. You look what's what's happened to Ron DeSantis because of the six week abortion ban. Some of his largest donors, some of the largest donors in the Republican Party. He's like, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. You add on top of that some other pretty extreme views. This new speaker, you know, has said that gay men, adults doing what they want to do in their bedroom should be criminalized, could be criminalized. And if it's not, it could lead to the downfall of the United States of America.

That's that's not a custom built message for for big donors, let alone 95 percent of Americans. Yeah. Or that he said years ago, legalizing gay marriage, which America overwhelmingly supports, could lead to people marrying their pets. Something I wrote, he believed we were headed down. That was something he wrote almost 20 years ago. And has he retracted that? Has he retracted any of this? Interesting thought process to even think about that. You do wonder where, you know, where does that come from? That's interesting. Somebody looking at fluffy. I don't get that. That's really strange. How does that enter one's mind? I'm sorry I brought it up.