Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/28/22

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

Elon Musk closes $44B deal to purchase Twitter

This week, Musk announced that he is going to buy Twitter and the deal will be final by tomorrow. Tomorrow, right? In anticipation of the takeover, Musk changed his Twitter bio to Chief Twit. Not bad. It's not too bad. Elon Musk's $44 billion takeover of Twitter is now complete. Did he really want it, Willie? You know, I'm not sure. He's got it. He's got it. He's in and the company's top two executives are out. We'll discuss what could be next for the social media platform. Plus, President Biden delivers his closing message ahead of the midterms focused on the economy as polls show inflation to be the top concern of voters.

We'll play his remarks and talk about what they mean moving forward. We'll also play the moment Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer was caught on a hot mic telling the president the Senate race he's most concerned about. And also, Willie, in that moment, he showed Joe Biden his socks. There's some sort of political cartoon socks. So there's a lot going on there on the tarmac. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It's Friday, October 28th. Along with Willie and me, we have former White House press secretary Jen Psaki with us this morning. She's now an MSNBC host. We've got the host of way too early White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist at The Washington

Post, Eugene Robinson joins us along with presidential historian John Meacham. His new book is titled And There Was Light, Abraham Lincoln and the American Str struggle. A great group this morning. Joe is off, but we have a lot to get to, Willie. Yeah, let's start with Elon Musk. He now officially is in charge of Twitter. The New York Times reports the Tesla CEO closed the deal last night, purchasing the social media giant for $44 billion. After the deal closed, according to CNBC, Musk fired four executives, including the CEO and CFO, along with the head of legal policy, trust and safety, who reportedly led the team

that decided whether or not to ban then President Donald Trump from the platform ultimately did. Musk has said previously he would reverse that ban. The moves came just hours before a deadline set by a Delaware judge to finalize the deal by tonight. Overnight, the New York Stock Exchange notified investors it will suspend trading and shares of Twitter before this morning's opening bell in anticipation of the company going private. Musk is expected to speak to Twitter employees directly later today. But Jonathan Lemire, he's already spoken pretty loudly, firing just about everybody at the top of the company, including the executive who ultimately decided to ban Donald Trump from Twitter. Elon Musk said back in May that was

a bad decision. It was the wrong decision. They shouldn't be banning people. His idea, apparently, is that this is just an open town square where anyone can say anything effectively. There's the business side of it. There's the business side of it. There's the political side of it. Do you think Donald Trump's coming back now? Yeah. Buckle up for what's coming here on Twitter. As you just said, Musk said he disagreed with that decision. Trump has said publicly, oh, I don't want to go back on Twitter. I have my truth social, which no one uses. Don't believe him. Donald Trump would like to be back on Twitter.

Aides tell me it might not happen immediately, but at some point he will want to have a return to the platform where he had about 80 million followers and, as we know, used it for six years to really wield political influence. It was taken away from him after January 6th. And Musk has become sort of a hero to many on the right view him as sort of this libertarian character, very politically incorrect, sort of in the almost Trumpish mold, the way he uses social media as well. And a lot of conservatives really rejoicing yesterday about this takeover being official, whether or not Trump himself comes back in the next few days. And there's a lot of trepidation as to what happens to this platform. We should keep in mind that in terms of an overall population, very few people actually use Twitter. It's a much smaller audience than, say, a Facebook, but it's extraordinarily influential. And that's in part

because of how Trump utilized it in the last few years. And Musk, he's not going to fire, he says, 75 percent of the staff, which had been reported earlier in the week. But he's already removed a couple of the top officials. This is Elon Musk's Twitter now, and we're all going to see where it takes us. It's so interesting. And who knows? I mean, Joe's always said that bring him back on Twitter. That actually could have its own consequences. People getting a break and then seeing him again could be interesting. We'll see what happens. Not to sound Trumpy, but it may not happen. We'll see what Elon Musk decides. Former President Barack Obama is throwing his political weight behind Democrats in key swing states. Today, Obama will join Senator Raphael Warnock and gubernatorial nominee Stacey Abrams in Atlanta at an event aimed at rallying black voters to the polls. Meanwhile, in Pennsylvania, the former president is starring in a new campaign ad

focused on, quote, the fate of our democracy and a woman's right to choose. Let's take a look. In Pennsylvania, you've got some important choices to make this year. So when the fate of our democracy and a woman's right to choose are on the line, vote Democrat on November 8th. All right, Gene Robinson, how much of an impact do you think Barack Obama can have in some of these battleground states where, you know, when you talk to some voters that are not not voting for Democrats, the fix is in for them. They have made a decision. They don't seem to care about the facts. Right. Look, I don't think he's going to persuade a lot of

dyed-in-the-wool Republicans or people who made up their mind to vote Republican to switch. What he's going to try to do is drive Democratic turnout and get Democratic voters who don't usually vote in midterms—and there are a lot of them—to vote in this one. And in particular, in the places he's going, he's going to—you know, he's talking to people, Pennsylvania Democrats, but he's going to go to Milwaukee, he's going to go to Michigan, he's going to go—he's going to go to some places where he can drive African-American turnout in particular, or hopes to do that, because that could make a huge difference. You know, the early voting numbers in Atlanta suggest and in Georgia suggest that African-Americans are coming out early to vote in large numbers.

And that sort of thing is very hopeful for Democratic candidates. So that's what Obama is going to try to do. And he is, you know, the most popular, arguably the most popular person in the party. I'd say not arguably. I think he is. It's also all hands on deck in the state of Pennsylvania. Democratic Senate candidate John Fetterman is speaking out now after his difficult debate performance this week. In an interview with MSNBC's Joy Reid, Fetterman was asked how his stroke recovery might impact his ability to serve as senator if he were to win.

All of our doctors believe that we are absolutely ready to be fit to be serving. And one of the things we always remind everybody is that by January, I would be much, much better. But Oz will still be a fraud. And, you know, and I rely on the judgment on real doctors, not a fake doctor like Dr. Oz that has spent his entire campaign ridiculing it and counting how many words that I might miss. And again, I acknowledge that, of course, any debate is going to be easy for somebody in recovery. And we wanted to be and thought it was important to be there. And we showed up. Democrats also playing a little defense, believe it or not, in the state of New York. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer was in Syracuse yesterday for the president's visit to that city.

While they were on the tarmac, a hot mic picked up Schumer's assessment of where Democrats stand in key Senate races. We put the verbatim quotes on the screen in case it's difficult to hear them over those plane engines. Take a look. Speaking of that turnout, Georgia voters indeed are shattering early voting records for midterm elections. More than one point one million people already have cast their ballots in person. That's over half a million more votes than at this point in the last midterm elections in 2018. So, Jen Psaki, a lot to digest there. We touched on Georgia and Pennsylvania. We heard Chuck Schumer's assessment there to President Biden of where things stand. What's your sense talking to your former colleagues in the White House and Democrats working on these campaigns about how they feel

where the focus should be? Yeah, I mean, first of all, the hot mic will get you every time, Chuck Schumer. I've been there. But look, I think what we heard there and what you saw on the screen is similar to a lot of the conversations Democrats are having behind the scenes. And a lot of people I talk to as well. People are fearful about where the momentum is going in some of these races. Yes, there are very encouraging signs like the record early vote numbers, but numbers in some of the House races are not where they should be. People are trying to get a lot of people I talk to are worried about voters being encouraged and excited about people at the top of the ticket and maybe not excited enough to vote for the congressional candidates. And that's a real concern. So I think it's a reflection of the fact that Democrats are kind of worried about where this is going right now. And it's felt worse over the last week or so. And, you know, we only have 11 days to go here. So there's that's why I think you see Barack Obama, Joe Biden, all these people out on the trail because they're

trying to light a fire with Democrats right now. Yeah. And Jenna, just want to focus in on Pennsylvania and just big picture with with John Fetterman and Dr. Oz, I do think all this attention on his stroke has taken away from a point that he made so well in his interview yesterday. And that is that he'll continue to get better. People do have strokes. People have strokes earlier in life. People have strokes later in life and people recover from strokes. But Dr. Oz will still be Dr. Oz. And let's talk about who that is, because it's all been so distracted from number one. He is someone who has misled his viewers on the Dr. Oz show for years. He was even brought into Washington and grilled by lawmakers for

his quack recipes and fixes for medical condition addictions that didn't work conditions. And the very person who created him, Oprah Winfrey, I don't see her anywhere. I don't think she wants to get anywhere near him because it's embarrassing. And yet, you know, the focus is on this stroke. I think he really brought it home. You went to Pennsylvania. You're talking to voters. What are they talking about when it comes to these two candidates and their choices overall?

Yeah, that's right. I mean, I was in Braddock, the home of John Fetterman, last Thursday, and I spent about six hours following canvassers around and listening to their conversations with people at the door. And what won't surprise you at all is that these conversations are so different from what you're hearing in Washington. I mean, people are talking about, yes, they are concerned about abortion rights, but a lot of times they go straight to their concerns about access to health care and paying for child care and the economy. People have a lot going on. And what it really my biggest takeaway was there's a disconnect between Washington and how we talk about a lot of these issues and how voters and people in the country actually talk

about them, because none of these canvassers were going to the door and saying, listen, we're going to codify Roe. Are you with us? You know, that's not how they talk. But what should be encouraging to the Fetterman team, and granted, I was in his hometown, you know, everybody there we talked to or they talked to was supportive of him. They liked him. They knew who he was. The canvassers, I followed up with them since I was there before the debate happened. And what they said was that, yes, the debate performance is coming up a little bit in the Philly suburbs so far in Bucks County, which is one of those counties outside of Philly, but not so much in the Pittsburgh area.

And it may be that a lot of people have decided. And right now it's about where the energy is and who's going to actually get out and vote. So it's you're so right about what the conversations are really like out there. And we're going to show some of your conversations coming up in the show to really drive that point home and hear what else they had to say about the issue of abortion and what they're really talking about and how much the debate mattered to them. For the first time ever, outgoing Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney has publicly endorsed a Democratic House candidate. Cheney endorsed two-term Michigan Congresswoman Alyssa Slotkin this week, with the campaign announcing the two Congresswomen will host a joint rally next Tuesday

in Lansing. Cheney, who was once the number three ranking Republican in the House, had never before publicly endorsed a Democrat. In a statement released by the Slotkin campaign. Cheney wrote, while Alyssa and I have our policy disagreements at a time when our nation is facing threats at home and abroad, we need serious, responsible, substantive members like Alyssa in Congress. In response, Slotkin's opponent, Republican state Senator Tom Barrett, released a statement that read in part, now establishment war hawks like Liz Cheney and Alyssa Slotkin are standing together because I oppose their senseless thirst for more foreign entanglements. Both Real Clear Politics and the Cook Political Report list the battle to represent Michigan's

seventh district as a toss-up. We'll watch that race, but let's pull back to 20,000 feet. This is why we have John Meacham here. This race and this endorsement, Meacham, represents the battle for the soul of America. What's at stake here? What do you make of Liz Cheney's choice to back up Alyssa Slotkin? And do you think it will have an impact in the long run? Well, Liz Cheney's putting country above party. She is not just talking about it. She's not just away from, as Jen said, away from the hot mic. She's not just saying, oh, we really need to do something about this extremism and Trump.

She has put her political career really not in jeopardy, but she has ended her for now her hold on elective office for a principle. And that's what we are supposed to want in principled leaders in a democracy. It's public virtue in action. And she's really the Margaret Chase Smith of our time. Margaret Chase Smith was a senator from Maine who, four years before the men caught up with her, denounced Joe McCarthy and did so as saying that principle mattered more than party and principle. And this is the hard part in a midterm election, 11 days out. But the Cheney news and her statement there actually manifests this point. This really is a midterm, I believe, personal opinion, take it or leave it, obviously, that the principles of politics as a mediation of

differences and obeying the rule of law, that is more important in this hour, I believe, than any particular policy disagreement or debate. I just do. I wish we could sit around and argue about marginal tax rates or, you know, colas and Social Security. That would be lovely. Right. And but we can't because there's there's so many people who simply want to grab power by any means necessary in order to advance their own interests and put the entire constitutional experiment toward a more perfect union in jeopardy. And I just think that's where we are. I don't mean to sound hyperbolic, but this is not hypothetical. This is what they say they want to do. And at a certain point, you have to take people seriously.

And so I think what Liz Cheney's done is remarkable. I wish more people would do it. And I think that not just history, but people of goodwill around the country should honor her for it and listen to her and vote for Representative Slotkin. And I say that, by the way, not as I'm not a Democrat. I voted for Republicans and Democrats. And, you know, I live in Tennessee. When I say I have conservative friends, that's redundant. You know, this is not this is this is not a crazy partisan thing to say. It is, I think, a genuine stress test for citizenship for all of us. John, we talk about the stakes. You and I got a chance to sit in an event a couple of nights ago you've always said, well, yes, we're divided, but it's not quite 1968 yet. And I heard in your voice the other night, you say, you know, this is actually as divided as we've been for 18 since 1865 and around the Civil War. So what are the stakes? If you talk, you know, to have a grand conversation at 617 in the morning, what are the stakes here?

The stakes are for years I have argued and wanted this to be more like 1933 or even 1968. And imagine a world where you say you'd like it to be like 1968. Right. Forty six Americans every day died in Vietnam. On average, Dr. King, Senator Kennedy were killed. The Democratic Convention descends into chaos and violence. George Wallace gets 13.5 percent of the popularrust and crisis, both economically and in confidence in the institutions. Here's the difference. And here's why I do think we're in a more of a 19th century moment. Herbert Hoover didn't call the election results a big lie. And in 1934, put a bunch of Hoover election deniers on the ballot around the country in order to set up a 1936 comeback.

OK, that didn't happen. Vice President Humphrey, who lost by this much to Richard Nixon, didn't put a bunch of election deniers on the ballot for 1970 in order to stage a comeback in 1972. Everything I just said is unfolding now. And what happened in the 1850s was not just a clash of policy, but a clash of fundamental understandings of reality, of identity, of power. And that had to be adjudicated by the sword. I don't think we're there, but I don't think we do ourselves any favors by pretending that this is somehow just all going to work out. What I admire, part of what I admire so much about Liz Cheney is I have a bunch of Republican friends, and so does everybody sitting here, who want this to be, I kind of think of it as,

remember Brigadoon, the musical where there's this place that flies around and comes in every hundred years? They want the Republican Party to be like Brigadoon, where somehow or another it just comes back and Trump's gone. And we're going to get back to arguing about spending. But that's a fantasy. They have to confront this directly. And if they don't, then the party is going to continue to be a vehicle for an unconstitutional way of being. To your point, it's a big lie party now, whether or not Trump's name is actually on the ballot or not. It's not this time around. We'll see if it is in 2024. It is a fundamental threat to the democracy. But for voters right now, the poll suggests that's a big issue. It still lags behind

the economy significantly. And that's where it seems like things are breaking right now in the final fortnight of this race, Mika. And I just want to go back to what Senator Schumer said in that hot mic. He talked about those three states, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania. Democrats need two of those if they're going to hold on to the Senate. And these margins are all razor thin. And his sounding of the alarms there, warning signs that Georgia may be turning the wrong direction, despite the flood, nearly daily flood of bad stories about Hershel Walker. That's a deep concern, because if they lose Georgia

and they've got to get one of Pennsylvania and Nevada, they're down the poll slightly in Nevada and Pennsylvania, as we've been talking about all week, very much up in the air. The stakes are that high and the races are going to be that close. And still ahead on Morning Joe, the head of the Republican National Committee, Ronna McDaniel, appears to mock the speaking ability of Pennsylvania Senate candidate John Fetterman. We'll show you those remarks and how mockery now seems to be a part of the Republican brand. Plus, a January 6th rioter who dragged former D.C. police officer Michael Fanone into the mob during the Capitol attack gets one of the longest prison sentences yet relating to the insurrection. Also ahead, new audio reveals former Trump attorney John Eastman may already be looking for ways to overturn election results in the upcoming midterms.

Politico's Heidi Prisbilla joins us with that new reporting. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. 37 in the morning, a live picture on a Friday morning of New York City from the top of our building. Let's take a look at some of the morning papers in Florida. The Bradenton Herald reports in the month following Hurricane Ian's devastation, local contractors are fighting over multimillion dollar cleanup contracts. Those contracts could be worth actually tens of millions of tax dollars. This likely is a preview of fights over local, state and federal funds that will be distributed over the next several months to help those Florida communities

get back on their feet. In Michigan, the Lansing State Journal highlights a report that some election monitors have developed violent plans ahead of the midterms. Michigan is one of several states being targeted by the American Project, a group of organized by allies of Donald Trump, which claims to recruit citizen election monitors to prevent fraud. The group's strategic plan suggests monitors use hidden cameras to capture license plates and if going at night to be armed. Nika? Let's go to South Carolina, where the Beaufort Gazette reports that a committee will soon vote on the fate of several banned books in the county school district. The committee will be required to read in full all 97 titles recently banned by the district. Members will then meet to share and discuss each title and its fate. A first for the district since the review process was established last year. And in New York, the Poughkeepsie Journal

highlights mortgage rates in the United States topping 7% following the Fed's recent rate hikes meant to tame inflation. The last time mortgage rates were above 7% was April 2002, seven months after the September 11th attacks. Wow. Coming up, a federal judge today is expected to deliver a ruling on whether tactics used by so-called vigilantes surveying ballot drop boxes in Arizona amounts to illegal voter intimidation. We'll get a live report from Phoenix

on the roots of the Dropbox watching efforts. The potential, good, bad, and the ugly for the Biden administration after Election Day. Reuters White House correspondent Jeff Mason joins us with his midterm analysis. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. 33 past the hour, a live look at Washington, D.C. Folks are headed to work and the sun hasn't even come up yet.

It's not just control of both chambers of Congress at stake in the midterms, but the last two years of President Biden's first term as well. Election forecasters say Democrats only have a one in five chance of keeping the House. Without that, most of President Biden's goals, such as codifying Roe v. Wade, will likely be impossible. If the Republicans win the House, they have said the Biden administration should prepare for a flood of congressional investigations and a potential impeachment. Joining us now, White House correspondent for Reuters, Jeff Mason. Jeff, thanks for coming back and joining us. It's interesting. Joe Biden, the president, came out swinging in Syracuse yesterday, really trying to hammer home the legislative wins, the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS Act, and what it's going to mean for Americans' pocketbooks, gas prices going up,

and the struggle that he's been going through to really push this economy in the right direction and also validating that it's still tough and also calling out Republicans for doing absolutely nothing, calling them out by name. And yet it was a pretty convincing message. The races are still so tight. They're super tight, Mika, and it's great to be with you. I think the the stakes are really high for Democrats, obviously, but also just very specifically for President Joe Biden, because the second two years of what is now his first term, maybe he'll have another one if he runs again and wins. It's just two years of governing. And I think Democrats, Jen Psaki, no doubt would be one of them, would say the first couple of years he's gotten a lot done. But he won't be able to get a lot done in the second two years if there are if the Democrats don't have at least one of those chambers in their power.

And it may be a version that John and I were talking about in the last hour of veto, veto, veto. And that could be helpful to him politically going into 2024. But there's a lot of things on his to do list and not being able to get any of those things done would no doubt be very frustrating to this president. Yeah. And Jen Psaki, speak to how a White House prepares for a shellacking, but hopes not to get one. These are tight. You don't know until you know, but it could happen. Yeah. Look, I was there in 2010 when there was a shellacking, as we called it accurately at the time. And, you know, we don't know what's going to happen in the election, but we all look at the polls and we see where it could be headed. I would say, Jeff, though, yes, there could be some positive moments where the president could oppose what the Republicans are putting forward or the absurdity of investigations and things like that. But ultimately, there's nothing really good about the Republicans controlling the House, Kevin McCarthy being speaker for Joe Biden. And I think

the big reason is because there's only so much oxygen in D.C., right? There's only so much attention that can be paid to anything. And if the Republicans are in control of the House, they will have investigations. There will be multiple impeachments, my bet is, Mika. I mean, they've already announced they want to impeach Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Merrick Garland, cabinet members you've never heard of. I mean, so that just will take up 75, 80 percent of the time and attention. And that doesn't leave a lot of space for a proactive, positive, get it done agenda. And that's that's hard for the second half of your first term. Well, in terms of setting that agenda, I mean, you're you're spot on, Jen. Obviously, Jen is spot on about these things. The who I know, shellacking, you know, shellacking,

you know, politics, you've been there, but it's about who sets the agenda. And if President Biden is distracted or the world is distracted, the country is distracted by everything that the Democrats, that the Republicans rather are trying to set forth with their agenda, it will distract from from his own. So even more than now, Jeff, there'll be a significant focus on President Biden's relationship with two men, Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell. We don't know that McCarthy will be speaker. Donald Trump has withheld his endorsement, dangling it over him for some time. He's really the favorite to be speaker. Let's put it that way. Tell us how those relationships could shape the next couple of years in Washington.

Well, President Biden, despite everything that Mitch McConnell has sort of thrown at him, has has maintained over the last couple of years that they're friends. And it's possible that in a Senate in which Republicans have a majority, that they would be able to work together. Certainly, that's a value that President Biden has said he holds. McCarthy, I think, would be a much trickier relationship. And yet I also think that President Biden would at least try to go back to bringing the country together and talking about bipartisanship. But it would be very challenging, particularly with McCarthy. Look, I think there's a really interesting dynamic to watch if Republicans control the House and not the Senate, because Mitch McConnell has had moments of sanity

here, you know, and he has he and Biden are friends. I can confirm that for all of you here. And he has had moments where he's prevented the country from defaulting. He's gotten some legislation through. McCarthy is a different story. And we already saw that, I think, with the battle a little bit over Ukraine funding. And that's going to be a bigger issue moving forward. So where do the sane Republicans stand versus where do the wackadoodles stand, I think, is going to be another dynamic maybe coming up next year. Yeah. And that will be a split dichotomy where McConnell may certainly side, Mika, with the president on funding to Ukraine. We can bet, though, he won't on a potential Supreme Court justice vacancy

if that were to happen any time in the next couple of years. This is a good point. White House correspondent for Reuters, Jeff Mason, thank you very much for being on this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, former President Trump loses his latest bid to block Congress from getting a hold of his tax returns. We'll have the latest on that legal fight.

And there are many for Trump. And Jen Psaki, you recently spoke with Planned Parenthood canvassers in Pennsylvania. We're going to take a look at what they had to say to you about the issue of abortion heading into the midterms. Morning Joe is coming right back. Wow, just about 45 past the hour and it's a dark morning in Washington. That's a live look at the White House, if you can believe it. Former President Trump has lost his latest bid to block Congress from getting access to his tax returns. A top federal appeals court yesterday denied Trump's request to reconsider a ruling that his tax records must be turned over to the House Ways and Means Committee.

The panel has been seeking those documents since 2019. And three of former President Trump's lawyers appeared in federal court for a closed door proceeding yesterday in Washington, D.C. They were seen entering and exiting the courthouse, but declined to answer any questions from reporters. This comes as prosecutors push the former president to provide any remaining documents that weren't removed during the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago back in August. According to The Wall Street Journal, yesterday's hearing was likely related to that ongoing dispute. Interesting that it took place in Washington. It is. And there's more, Mika.

Former Trump attorney John Eastman has filed a motion asking a federal judge to reconsider or stay in order, requiring him to hand over multiple documents to the January 6th House Select Committee pending Eastman's appeal. Judge David Carter recently ordered Eastman to give the committee emails that allegedly show efforts to disrupt Congress's confirmation of President Biden's 2020 election win, the certification there. Judge Carter wrote that the documents are either not protected by attorney-client privilege or exempt from that privilege because they were related to a crime or attempted crime. Specifically, the judge noted Eastman had flagged to Trump's attorneys their supposed evidence of voter fraud in Fulton County, Georgia, was inaccurate. But Trump and his legal team went on to file a complaint in federal court nevertheless, quote, with the same inaccurate numbers without rectifying, clarifying or otherwise changing them.

Politico also has new reporting about Eastman laying out a new plot to undermine elections. In new audio from a speech he gave last week, Eastman appears to be pushing for ways to set up a flood of lawsuits in state courts and challenging the midterm results already. Joining us now, National Investigative Correspondent at Politico, Heidi Prisbilla. Heidi, it's great to see you. Boy, this is an amazing bit of audio that you've unearthed of John Eastman basically coaching people about how to keep a paper trail so that they can file lawsuits about these midterm elections. Let's listen to a little bit of what you found. They have to be registered, but they can register

same day at a time. But the requirements for identification to do same day registration is a little bit different. That ID must have an address in the county and it must have a photo. In other words, you can't do the same-day registration just with your utility bill or something. So same-day registration is allowed, but it's still not part of the ordinary rules.

So this is 1-4-5.7. Again, get that book out and have it circled and know what these things are there. These are grounds for challenging somebody if they come in and their ID says they live down in Las Cruces and they're trying to go to the dental group. So, well, your ID is not valid. You don't get to do that. You don't get to register here today with an out-of-county ID. And don't just kind of have some sense of what you're allowed to do. So, you know, find out who your three people are, look at their registrations, and if they're all in the same party, you know, get in touch with the county chairman. Say, I'd like to be the number two judge on that thing so that they can meet their statutory bipartisan requirement and get it rolled. Because then you're the ones making the decisions, not just raising the questions about the decisions.

Here's the consequence to you if you don't allow me to see you. You really want to walk down that path, right? Do it politely, right? Do it gingerly. And if they say, we're calling the police on you because you're obstructing. No, I'm doing what the statute authorizes me to do. Let's go ahead and call the police and we'll see if they'll enforce what they have to. That's 26 against you. All right. But politely with a smile on your face.

So, Heidi, let's take a step back and tell our viewers who exactly John Eastman is talking to there, what he's asking them to do. And you're struck by the brazenness or lack of shame, however you look at it, of a guy who's under investigation, who drafted a document coaching people how to overturn the last election in 2020. Now getting ahead and doing it again. Yeah, Willie, as you know, John Eastman is the architect of Trump's failed attempt to overturn the last election. And we've done a lot of reporting on this army of poll workers and poll watchers that Republicans are trying to recruit to go to polling locations. And the big concern has been that they're going to just disrupt voting, that they're going to intimidate voters. But what you have here from John Eastman,

who was the architect, is that the real goal here is for them to basically be the vehicle for creating the documentation that would be necessary to challenge upcoming elections. He speaks very explicitly and repeatedly urges them to build the case, build the documents, write everything down, and that those documents then can become affidavits that could be used in future cases, Willie. So the big concern here is that this army that is being built up, it may become disruptive because a lot of these people are coming in. They're believing that they are there to police fraud. They believe that they're going to be seeing fraud so they could create disruptions. But the new revelation here is that that's not the main goal of the people who are pulling the strings, like John Eastman, like Cleta Mitchell, who's been

organizing these summits all around the country, Willie, that the goal is really that these people will be the vehicle to create those legal disputes. And one other thing I wanted to mention. Now, this was a New Mexico summit. That's where John Eastman is now a resident. And it's also important to note that if you recall, there was a board during the primaries in New Mexico, Otero County, which refused to certify the election down there. Nobody understood what was happening. But Willie, what I was told was there were resolutions like that circulating all over the state. It was just Otero County that said, OK, we'll do it. We'll try this. We'll see what happens when we refuse to certify an election. The concern is that these people are going to create the documentation that could be used by a legislature or by a county board to say we're not going to certify.

Jonathan Lemire, as Heidi says, John Eastman is a central figure in the attempted coup around the last election and a central figure in your book, The Big Lie. You wrote a lot about him. And now to hear him on tape again, given everything we know about him, all the judges that have asked for his documents and all the trouble he could be in to be right back in that position saying, here's guys how we can gum up the system again and drag these things out if, in fact, we lose elections. Yeah, unapologetic and shameless. That's what John Eastman's behavior is here. And you're right. He is a central character to the big lie, to everything Donald Trump and his allies tried to do after the 2020 election.

It was his idea to set the fake elector schemes and have states put alternate electors to the Congress that would allow Mike Pence to try to throw that out and therefore keep Trump in office. We know that Eastman was the one sending emails around afterwards going like, guys, we might have broken the law, and then potentially wondering if he might need a pardon. So he is someone who, well, let's just say in the thick of things. So, Heidi, this is terrific reporting and obviously suggests that this reiterates how the big lie is still going to be with us. And talk to us a little bit about what you're seeing. Speak more broadly about not just Eastman's actions here, but how this is part of what the Republican ethos is now. We're seeing up and down the ballot campaigns already threatening to challenge election results if they don't like them. And that is why you could see this potentially

even in Republican states. Like I said, Otero County, there was no reason for that election to be challenged and for the board commissioners there to refuse to certify the concerns, according to election officials who I talked to there, Jonathan, were that it really was a test run to see, OK, well, what would happen if we did refuse to certify an election? That is, of course, the biggest fear of a lot of elections officials that I talk to is that you see this all kind of happening in coordination at the same time that now there's one piece here. You have individuals who could create this documentation you have in in the courts now the Supreme Court potentially now hearing this case on what's called the independent state legislature theory, which would allow state legislatures to have the final say in essentially determining the outcome of an election and potentially overruling courts or big footing courts,

big footing state officials who are supposed to have that final say. And you see how the pieces are potentially being put in place here for a much more successful version of what was considered in 2020 to be a really ham-handed approach, where they had a lot of these untrained poll challengers banging literally on the outside of these polling locations where votes were being counted. Now, the goal is really to put these people in a position to have real power. They're asking them to serve as not only official party poll challengers, but also as workers, workers, judges, people who are supposed to be the nonpartisan officials. And if you hear Eastman on these tapes, he's really explicit about basically using very narrow interpretations of the

law, very technical interpretations, like people are supposed to speak audibly when they state their name and address when they come to vote. And if they don't, you should challenge that. Well, while that's technically true, if I'm sitting here and I'm challenging every single person who's coming in there, maybe I'm in a minority district even, and I'm a white person challenging these people, speak up, speak up one after the other. Well, is that really enforcing the law or is that voter intimidation? So you have the concern about intimidation, the people, the reporting there about people showing up potentially armed at polling locations in Michigan. But again, the takeaway here, guys, is that this broader strategy is about laying a legal framework and precedent to empower people, even with meritless claims to potentially challenge elections. National investigative correspondent for Politico,

Heidi Prisbilla, thank you very much for that reporting, which is so key to the big conversation, John Meacham, because you see how this is getting ingrained in our politics. Trump may be waiting in the wings. He may or may not run for president. But Trumpism and all that comes with it hasn't gone away in many ways. As you see here, it's getting worse. I mean, is enough being done to prepare for the next big lie, which could be less than two weeks from now? Yes. And it's just and in many ways, it's also a test run for 2024. And, you know, Jonathan wrote the book about this. So and I think Heidi's reporting shows something that is really important to note. In a way, we got lucky in the fall of 2020 in that the Trump forces didn't quite have their act together. See Giuliani, Rudy.

And but the fact that it was kind of an unconstitutional clown car does not mean it's not going to be unconstitutional, a smooth, unconstitutional operation going forward. And we have a patchwork of election laws. It is a big exercise with lots of players at various levels. And as you're saying, and as this reporting shows, you have a myriad number of ways for people to sow doubt and then go to the courts and take their chances. And the threshold question for a constitutional republic is the legitimacy of full and free elections. And if you break that, it's really, really hard to get it back. And I think that's part of what's on the ballot in 11 days. And it's surely what part of what's on the ballot in 11 days. And it's surely what's

going to be on the ballot in 2024. John Meacham, thanks very much for coming on this morning. Of course, his new book is entitled And There Was Light, Abraham Lincoln and the American Struggle. Thanks, John. And coming up, more from President Biden's midterm message on the economy in upstate New York yesterday, ahead of today's campaign stop in Battleground, Pennsylvania, plus live reporting from Atlanta, where former President Barack Obama will stump for Georgia Democrats today. Also ahead, Michigan's Democratic Attorney General Dana Nessel joins us to talk about her race for reelection. Morning Joe, we'll be right back.