Morning Joe - Morning Joe 10/31/22

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

How far-right demonization of Pelosi led to attack

Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, October 31st. Paul Pelosi, the husband of the Speaker of the House, the woman who was second in line to the presidency, was savagely attacked on Friday. And while surgeons were operating on the fractured skull of the 82-year-old grandfather, deranged right-wing fanatics, Trump media allies, and some of the most powerful people in the world were feverishly trying to stir up conspiracy theories that distracted from the central political headline of this story, that years of Republican propaganda and Trump fueled fascism led 42 year old David DePapp to break into Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco home,

seemingly with the intent to harm her. Today, he'll likely be charged with the attempted murder of the speaker's husband, who was in the home when DePap allegedly invaded it. San Francisco police say he smashed his way in, a man on a mission, and confronted Paul Pelosi, but looking for Nancy. According to the AP, citing a person familiar with the situation, Pelosi told the intruder that he had to use the restroom. He was engaging with him, trying to hold him off. And in the restroom, that's where Paul Pelosi's phone was charging. And that's when he dialed up 911. When police arrived, DePapp attacked Pelosi violently, smashing a hammer into his head and arms, fracturing his skull. Pelosi went into surgery. He is expected to make a full recovery.

Police say zip ties were found at the scene, just like the ones found on those who were hunting Nancy Pelosi at the Capitol on January 6th. And that's not the only similarity. Before attacking Mr. Pelosi with a hammer, a source tells NBC News DePapp shouted at him, Where is Nancy? Where is Nancy? Where is Nancy? Where have we heard that before? Some on the right would say, don't jump to conclusions and don't connect that to this. Nancy! Nancy! Nancy! Yeah, Nancy!

Bring her out here! Hey! Come on in if you don't bring her out! Nancy! Oh, Nancy! Nancy! Where are you, Nancy? A connection. What connection? I don't see a connection. Why would there be a connection?

I mean, he was just deranged, right? In an isolated way. And by the way, voters, look over here. Crime is up. Look away from the parallels to January 6th. Trump is to shout a review of David DePapp's online accounts shows he was part of a far-right world of hate, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy theories involving anti-vax hysteria, voter fraud, and many of his posts published in the past few months. But don't look at that. Ignore the fact that these right wing screeds line up with the biggest lies propagated by Trump and Trumpists. He was deranged after all. I mean, just isolated. Never mind the fact that cult leaders and fascists prey first on the weakest, most vulnerable among us. In short, deranged people that they inspire with hate and hard wire for violence against their enemies. But ignore all of that, say Republicans.

After all, this political attack was just another example of rampant random crime. When you let dangerous criminals out on the streets, you know, with bail and not put them in prison, you're just asking for this sort of incident to happen. And I think it created the environment where this happens. So it's a convergence here of what has been political violence. We've witnessed the rise of just crime on our streets and our subways. We all need to recognize violence is up across the board. I think the other thing to remember is if this weren't Paul Pelosi, this criminal would probably be out on the street tomorrow. Other Republicans found this tragedy of an 82-year-old grandfather getting his brain

bashed in with a hammer a a political punchline like Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin, who saw the attempted murder of Paul Pelosi as a good opening line. Take a listen. Speaker Pelosi's husband had a break in last night in their house and he was assaulted. There's no room for violence anywhere, but we're going to send her back to be with him in California. But there's no room for violence. When asked about his one liner, Youngkin's spokesperson said, quote, as the governor clearly said, the assault on Paul Pelosi was wrong and there's no place for violence. He wishes him a full recovery and is keeping the Pelosi family in his prayers. Youngkin's team called the concern that the governor was joking about violence, a quote, mischaracterization.

When not making jokes about the attack, other Trumpists were spreading lies about it to make you look away. Take one unfounded anti-LGBTQ conspiracy theory claimed to be tied to the attack. About this theory, Elon Musk, the new owner of Twitter and the man who wants to see Donald Trump reinstated on the platform, said yesterday, quote, There's a tiny possibility there might be more to this story than meets the eye. That tweet had more than 24000 retweets and,000 likes before he, the new head of Twitter, chief twit, deleted it. There is no mischaracterizing what happened. Are we to insist this attack was not the direct result of the dangerous, violent rhetoric we have heard

from Donald Trump's Republican Party over the last six years. The deranged man who violently assaulted Paul Pelosi got his idea from somewhere. Are we supposed to ignore the fact that threats against the House speaker have been specific for quite some time? Marjorie Taylor Greene reportedly liked a Facebook comment that stated removing Pelosi from office with a, quote, bullet to the head would be quicker. Greene also claimed under oath that she does not remember that she expressed support for Pelosi's execution back in 2019. That's convenient. Her boss, Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, claims he was just joking when he said last year that if Republicans win the House majority and he gets the speaker's gavel, quote, it will be hard not to hit Pelosi with it.

It's pretty funny. It's a good joke. January knows what to Nancy Pelosi, all encouraged by Donald Trump. It started before he became president. This guy started screaming by himself. And they, I don't know, rough up. He should have been, maybe he should have been roughed up because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing. So if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you?

Seriously. Okay, just knock the hell. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise. We're not allowed to punch back anymore. I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this?

They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you. We having a good time? USA! USA! USA good time? USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

All right, yeah, get him out. Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it. In the good old days, this doesn't happen, because they used to treat them very, very rough. And when they protested once, you know, they would not do it again so easily. Isn't it great to be at a Trump rally, really? Part of the problem and part of the reason it takes so long

is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore, right? You know, it continued into his presidency. Remember Charlottesville? There are good people on both sides. Remember the subtle messages, stand back and stand by. When left unchecked, Trump led an increasingly desensitized nation through shocking moment after shocking moment all the way through this, the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Yeah, there are many weak, deranged minds in this country, like the man who attacked Paul Pelosi. But Republicans have been hiding behind that word deranged as if it was some isolated incident. And you should only look at

that. Don't look at anything else, even if it's screaming out at you. And yet you can see where DePapp's ideas came from in his blog posts, in his words. where is Nancy? In his plans, he brought zip ties with him. Deranged people can fall prey to a cult leader like Donald Trump. And they have. With us, we have NBC News senior reporter Ben Collins, former FBI special agent and national security analyst for NBC News and MSNBC, Clint Watts, the host of Way Too Early, White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, former chair of the Republican National Committee, Michael Steele, and columnist and associate

editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius. Thank you all for being with us. I think, Ben, we should start with you with your latest reporting, especially taking a deep dive into not only what DePapp was posting, but the disinformation swirl that ensued. Yeah. So he was posting pretty standard QAnon, Pizzagate, cabal style stuff. The idea that the world is secretly run by this new world order and it is trying to censor you. It's trying to prevent the world from seeing what's really going on. And that Nancy Pelosi and people like that, those people in the QAnon spaces right now,

those people are at the top of that sphere. They are at the top of that pecking order when it comes to how people believe in conspiracy theories. And I do want to stress this. Right now, trending on Twitter is the lie about this guy. It's the lie that... It's trending. It's trending on Twitter is the lie about this guy. It's the lie that... It's trending. It's trending on Twitter as we speak. Because Elon Musk pushed it on Saturday.

Or yesterday, sorry. I just want to make it clear how they got to this place. So, first of all, lies on the internet move faster than the truth. And that's in part why there are all these safeguards that Elon Musk is trying to take down on Twitter right now. The lies that were pushed were from bad pieces of information they found. For example, they said that Paul Pelosi was in his underwear. Of course he was, 2.30 in the morning at the time he was attacked.

That led them to believe this was a lover's quarrel between two different people that knew each other. The reason they believed they knew each other is because the police put out a statement saying that they didn't really know who opened the door. So that led them to believe there was a third person in the house. So from there, there was this world building on the pro-Trump internet. What could be the opposite of reality here? And the opposite of reality they came up with was these two people were having a lover's quarrel in a house and the police sort of intruded on us. It's fundamentally incorrect. It was pushed by the richest man in the world. And then yesterday it was pushed by Donald Trump Jr., who posted a picture of underwear and a hammer and said it's a Halloween costume for Paul Pelosi. So if we don't cut this out right now, not just the normalization of violence, but the idea that reality can't even exist anymore because it cannot catch up to the lies on the Internet.

I'm not a scholar on authoritarian history, but I've read Hannah Arendt. I've read all of these people. This is how it gets really bad. This is the start of something that gets really, really bad. If you are getting the guardrails off the truth, where it literally cannot catch up to the lies on the internet because of how the pipes work, how the system works, because of the incentives of the richest people in the world, then that's how you lose your democracy. So, Clint Watts, speak to that if you could, because the guardrails are off the truth and there is no containing it.

And the nation is desensitized to this. I don't think people see what Ben is seeing right now. Yeah. What people tend to believe, two things dictate that more than any. What they see first, what they see the most. If you went on to social media today, you're seeing a lie first, and that's what you're hearing repeated the most. I think the other big part of this is it's an accelerant. No one really imagined in the beginning of the internet what would happen if all of these lies were connected together by people that coordinate, by people that ramp up their activity. So when this happens over time, you have this desensitization. And I think when I got the alert on my phone, I was not surprised at all.

Why? Because I've seen January 6th. I saw who they were going after. If I went onto the Internet or social media at any point, I'm more likely to encounter a lie and the demonization of Nancy Pelosi as a target. Why would a man who at times has lived in different places and followed different conspiracies, want to attack this single target. That comes down to the internet and social media. And you add to that this accelerant, which you have right now, where filters that have been built up over the last decade in social media

to try and protect people are now being removed. It is just over a week to Election Day. It is no surprise that this dehumanization, this targeting, it's coming up today. And every election cycle, it gets a little bit worse. And every election cycle, we tend to just wave it off. In this case, the target was known. We knew it was going to be Nancy Pelosi that would have somebody show up at their house. It wasn't a surprise to anybody.

What we don't know is the attacker, who the attacker is going to be. And I think that's where this mediated terrorism that we've seen over the many years from political leaders is really going to unfold in a very devastating way. So, David Ignatius, big picture. You've studied for the course of your career how stable governments collapse, how democracies die before they can practically even come into fruition. Number one, the worry about Nancy Pelosi herself continuing to be targeted. But also, I'm curious your thoughts on the lightning speed that to Ben's point of how this just spiraled down toward disinformation, that the disinformation itself is trending. But we had the most powerful person in the world and

top Republican leaders tweeting within hours, within moments of this happening. And the disinformation spread like wildfire. Your thoughts on that and the impact it has on our overall democracy. So first, Mika, I thought your opening montage was superb, bringing together footage reminding us of the kinds of things Trump was beginning his campaign visiting Germany and saying and writing in one of my columns, bad things happen to good countries. And that's the story of modern Germany. science, philosophy, music, the arts, was a country that was taken apart by uncontrolled, radical, extremist, anti-Semitic politicians. Adolf Hitler is the dominant personality. It happened in a country that was a good country. So we have to be on guard always.

And I think discussions like this one are important. I worry sometimes, and I'd be curious what the other panelists think about our role in the, I want to say, mainstream media in disseminating these false attacks. It was pushed by Elon Musk. He's a significant person. But it's the replay, the way in which we talk about it. We talk about what's in these fringe publications. And we may be amplifying that material ourselves. I worry about that.

I was heartened after the attack on Paul Pelosi by two things. First, the fact that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell pretty much immediately said he was disgusted by this. And you could tell from his words he meant it. He was disgusted by it. And I think every right thinking person should feel exactly that, a sense of disgust. Second, Friday night I talked to a senior law enforcement official, federal law enforcement official, and asked him point blank, what's going on here in this level of political violence? And his answer was very straightforward, that we are becoming a country where if people don't like something, they don't like a political outcome, they don't like a candidate, they don't like a political outcome. They don't like a candidate. They don't like a person. There is this network that supports, encourages, condones violence.

And people take things into their own hands more and more. People on the right, QAnon, a special case of that. But the decency that underlines our politics that makes it work is everybody's business. And, you know, I hope that's a takeaway from this attack, that the people are disgusted, that they walk away from conspiracy talk and that we begin to get things get things right. I think to make that happen, though, Jonathan Lemire, I mean, especially in the work that you've done for your book, The Big Lie, the problem is that it's very good that Mitch McConnell did and said the right thing.

If I may, these Republican leaders need to do more. They need to say more. They need to call out those who are not doing the right thing. Because right now, Mitch McConnell can say that this was terrible, that he denounces it. But Marjorie Taylor Greene and others, they have a big megaphone, too. And they use that megaphone to ripple through Trump's people, Donald Trump's people. They use him as a vehicle to get clicks, to trend and to get their voices heard. So if you don't call out the people on your side and say no, you know, I think of John McCain on the campaign trail when the voter came to him in public on Mike and attacked Barack Obama. And he said, no, no, that needs to happen to these people. They need to be publicly told that this is not acceptable in the Republican Party. I don't see that happening. And I don't think top Republicans

who are on the right side of this understand what Ben understands. And that is that we're past the edge here. We're past the edge. And this is only the beginning. Yeah. And sure, McConnell and some Republicans denounced what happened, but they were drowned out by others who played whataboutism, who tried to suggest that this is similar to the threats received by Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh and others, and tried to point the finger elsewhere and say this is just a nature of violence. Hey, San Francisco is a high crime town run by Democrats. What do you think is going to happen? We heard from that from a number of Republicans, too. And the montage of

Trump encouraging violence from his presidency that culminated in January 6th, January 6th, which had cries of where's Nancy, as well as attackers there who had zip ties, much like the man who broke into the Pelosi home. But Trump and his allies fostering violence didn't. And then just over the summer, we should remember the threats towards public officials and law enforcement officers after the Mar-a-Lago search, where Lindsey Graham and others predicted there would be riots in the streets if Trump were being indicted. Violence has become a part of our political discourse, and public officials that I've spoken to, as well as law enforcement officers, post-January 6th, were deeply afraid that something exactly like this would happen, and now it has. And Michael Steele,

where do we go from here from the Republican Party? And again, we were just clear, not every Republican is playing whataboutism. Some have spoken out against this, but there are enough influential figures who are on TV shows, who are on Twitter, who are using their vast social media accounts to say that this is not the fault of Republicans, not a fault of the rhetoric, and in times even fostering this continued violence. How does that possibly change?

It doesn't. It won't change in the short term because there's no political upside to do so. There's no incentive within the party itself to do so. I appreciate, to Mika's point, the rhetoric or the words that come out in, you know, sympathy and concern. But that's performative. Yeah, it's performative because there's no backing it up. There's much more that needs to be done. Just just exactly just as you hear Republicans say, like Yunkin, that, oh, violence is awful. But this is awful. But, you know, well, if you're putting a butt after that, then, no, you're not changing anything. You're you're doing the performative thing you have to do. OK, people expect me to

come out here and say, oh my God, I feel bad about what happened. But, you know, well, let's send Nancy back home. But, you know, Democrats are the worst, you know, so you have this thing where you go through the performative work that you have to do without having to do the real work of looking to those around you who are fostering and permitting this. I think the work that Ben has done has been so profoundly important for folks like me who are trying to understand and put into context and then go back and have conversations with people and connect those dots. And you realize, oh, my God, you really don't want this to end. You really do. You're OK with what's happening right now because our politics are so infected and become so infected by all of this disease that we've just given up on curing it. There's a great piece that was in the post yesterday by Max Boot, who really kind of laid all of this, laid it all out in such an incredible way that, you know, you just kind of sit there and you listen to the whole thing. You go, wow,

you read the whole thing. You go, wow, this is amazing storyline about what is actually happening out here on the street. And we need to do something about that. And Ben Collins is Mitch McConnell statement trending. I mean, wrap this up this block. We're going to be spending the entire show trying to take a deep dive into this, but wrap up this block with a sense of, yes, these Republican leaders that are doing the right thing. Like Michael said, they say the right thing. They don't name anybody. They don't talk to the big picture of it.

Are they trending right now? No. Tell me the problem with that. Well, the incentive structure in these spaces, the things that animate the right now, come from the far right. And while it used to maybe come from, you know, the NRO or like a regular publication, now it comes from 4chan and the Donald. And Clinton and I saw this in 2016. We saw this pipeline of stuff going up through to the president from 4chan, from anonymous spaces, people making up lies of whole cloth.

And forming a narrative, world building, like you would if you were trying to build a fantasy novel or something. That's the sort of thing that hits right now because they can't be failed. That's the thing in these spaces. I want to make this clear. There is no admitting you're wrong on 4chan. There is no admitting you're wrong on Truth Social. It's called Truth Social, right? You have to double down over and over and over again. There is no admitting that that attack had something to do with what you said. You have to create a reality in which they're still the bad guy. Nancy Pelosi, despite her husband getting hit in the head with a hammer,

somehow he's the bad guy, right? That's what happens in these spaces. They world build to create a permanent victimhood complex. And this has been happening since 2015 and 2016. The difference is, the world's richest man now runs the most powerful news platform. And Donald Trump still has his own. And Kanye West has his own. These people who are committed to these New World Order conspiracy

theories, those are the people that run these platforms. Now, we can't ignore this anymore. I understand the idea that for some reason, we're supposed to be able to ignore this and move past it and not really talk about it. We've got to confront this head on. These are the people running this party. This is not the fringe. This is not a sideshow. These are the people who could very easily once again take power in 2024. So, look, I would love to break down every single day, every single one of these lies and tell you how they are building up these evil villains. So by eight o'clock, the time eight o'clock comes around, Tucker Carlson can lay it out for you in the public. But we all have to do this together.

We all have to realize that this is not going away unless we confront it. And the way it gets from the fringe to the mainstream is 100 million Twitter followers. It only takes one. And I think that's consistent when we were talking, whether it's Russian disinformation in the election, misinformation and COVID. We bring that forward to now in election 2022. All it takes is one retweet by a person with 100 million followers that also has their own Twitter or any of the platforms that are out there.

And now that is what people hear the most. That's what they will believe. And there's no walking that back. You can't shut that down. And by the way, what Mitch McConnell said was great. I mean, not to minimize it at all. Of course. Having said that, I'm trying to think what stops the far right and their crazy conspiracy theories and the violent rhetoric that is, yes, leading to this and inspiring deranged people to act out on these thoughts. We need Republican leaders, not just Mitch McConnell, all Republican leaders on the right side of this. And there are many to say what is wrong about what

is happening, to make the connection. And by the way, this show went, you know, wall to wall. We were as upset and concerned about political violence in a very different way at a very different time when Steve Scalise was shot at a congressional baseball game. And Nancy Pelosi on that day said on days like today, there are no Democrats and no Republicans, only Americans united in our hopes and prayers for the wounded. Compare that to what we're seeing all over the place. The Republican Party completely disjointed and the loudest voices being the most violent ones. We're going to have much more in the investigation into this attack. We're going to go live to San Francisco for what police are saying this morning. Plus, with just over a week until the midterm elections, we're breaking down new Senate polling

on the state of the race in four key battlegrounds. And former President Obama spent the weekend campaigning across the Midwest. We're taking a look at his closing message to voters. Also ahead, the very latest from South Korea following a deadly crowd surge during Halloween festivities. What officials are saying about this incident. Plus, President Biden and other world leaders are rushing to congratulate Brazil's new president elect. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. This was not a random act.

This was intentional. And it's wrong. Our elected officials are here to do the business of their cities, their counties, their states and this nation. Their families don't sign up for this to be harm. And it is wrong. Not a random act. Let's bring in NBC News justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. And he's been following this story all weekend.

And also NBC News reporter Maura Barrett. She's outside the Pelosi home in San Francisco. Maura, we'll start with you. What more are we learning about the attack on Paul Pelosi? Well, this morning, Mika, Mr. Pelosi is still recovering in the hospital from that surgery, the attack leaving him with a fractured skull and serious injuries to his arm and hands. Nancy Pelosi releasing a statement over the weekend saying that she is heartbroken and traumatized by the attack, but said that Mr. Pelosi's condition continues to improve. We have learned some new details over the weekend about how the attack happened. Police confirming to us that the suspect, David DePapp,

broke in through a rear window and then went upstairs, which is where he found Mr. Pelosi. And then this is the key element here. Mr. Pelosi was able to make a somewhat secretive call to 911 and the police are absolutely hailing the 911 dispatcher, Heather Greaves, as a hero. I spoke with the police chief over the weekend and he gave me some more details about how that all played out. I want to reemphasize and thank our dispatcher, Heather Grimes, for her intuition, her quick thinking. She had to interpret what she was being told. And based on her experience and her intuition, she basically figured out that there was something more to this incident than what she was being told. Her actions, in my opinion, resulted in both a higher priority dispatch

and a faster police response. I think this was life-saving. Police also saying that Paul Pelosi's actions by making that call also obviously lifesaving. And now we do also know police confirming that zip ties were found at the scene after they arrived. They said when Mr. Pelosi and the suspect were struggling over a single hammer, The suspect said that they were waiting for Nancy. The police also confirmed to us, debunking previous conspiracy theories, that the two men did not know each other prior to the attack. The D.A. I spoke with also over the weekend is planning to announce charges today and his arraignment will be as early as tomorrow. The suspect does remain in the hospital.

The district attorney saying that this is obviously an emotional and troubling time for her, the police chief echoing the same. But she said that these online conspiracy theories, the rhetoric we saw from the suspect online in some of his blog posting, social media posting over the last several years, she said that it's a wake-up call of how bad political discourse has gotten in this country right now. And so for someone like that to be saying and being so troubled by it really paints a picture of how serious this attack is.

She says she plans to bring charges of attempted homicide, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse and burglary, among other felonies related to Friday's attack. Mika. NBC's Maura Barrett. Thank you very much. Let's turn now to Ken Delaney. And Ken,

what angles of this story stand out to you? And can you speak to which, to how much the conspiracy theories started flying on the internet and are now trending way more than the actual facts of what happened? Yeah, you know, Mika, on the day that this assault occurred, the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, issued a joint intelligence bullet, on the day that this assault occurred, the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security issued a joint intelligence bulletin. I have it here with me about threats to the election. It's entitled Domestic Violent Extremist Threat Environment Probably Heightened During 2022 U.S. Midterm Election Cycle. Now, this focuses on the disinformation around election fraud and how that is driving domestic violent extremists to violence and to attack poll workers and to threaten politicians. But it's really one

of a piece here. What you were just describing in the first half hour of the show, this massive disinformation machine that we're now seeing energized about the facts of this case already was was aimed at Nancy Pelosi. And for years, this has been going on, even predating Donald Trump. Nancy Pelosi was a target of right-wing threats and conspiracy theories and violent rhetoric. And, you know, we heard as soon as this attack happened, our law enforcement sources were telling us that this was an emotionally disturbed person. But that's exactly what law enforcement officials have long feared happens in this situation. It is exactly this kind of person who is posting a variety of things across the

ideological spectrum. But most recently, things about the QAnon conspiracy theory, about the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, alleging that Democrats were running a child sex ring in Washington, D.C. Really bizarre things. So bizarre that I wouldn't be surprised to see an insanity defense raised in this case. Those are the kind of people who are most susceptible to the rhetoric that is coursing through our politics now. The other thing, of course, I'm watching for, Mika, is the Justice Department is seriously considering its own set of charges in this case. There are crimes prohibiting, obviously, assault and attempted murder of federal officers. Those charges carry as many as two decades in prison. The FBI may take this case and Justice Department may bring charges, parallel charges to the state case.

And then, of course, lastly, this raises the issue of security for lawmakers and why spouses of the most senior lawmakers in the United States, third in line to the presidency, why they don't have their own detail or at least home protection. We can see from the account that Paul Pelosi was able to dial 911 using his cell phone that there was no apparently no panic button, no ability for him to immediately press a button and summon security. And that seems rather strange given, you know, the threat picture around Nancy Pelosi. She obviously has security detail, but he did not. And there's some talk about changing that. It does seem rather strange after January 6th when her life was openly threatened. Ben, your thoughts? Yeah, Ken, I want to ask you a little bit about that 9-1-1 call, because on the conspiracy Internet right now, you see this 9-1-1 call. They believe it debunks the whole idea that he was attacked in any way because he had

a strategy, right? This guy was being attacked. He had an intruder in his home with a hammer, and he made it seem like this guy was his friend and that they were waiting for Nancy. But the 911 operator obviously knew what was happening. There was 2.30 in the morning. Why would you call 911 and say we're waiting for Nancy? Can you talk a little bit about what actually went on in that phone call and how not all 911 phone calls are immediate calls for distress? Well, that's right, Ben. And there's a lot we don't know, obviously. But one thing that's very clear is that the authorities have said these two people did not know each other. They've said that they'd never met before this incident. And

Paul Pelosi was able to tell, what we're told is that he was able to tell the attacker that he needed to use the bathroom. And he knew his cell phone was charging in the bathroom. He was able to make this 911 call and leave the phone, leave the call open. And the dispatcher was able to put out a code that led the police to know that they had to get there as soon as possible. Immediate, you know, immediate response. And that's what perhaps saved Paul Pelosi's life. But, you know it the idea that these people knew each other, that there was anything other than a random attack has been debunked by senior law enforcement officials who have investigated the facts of this case. NBC News justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. And thank you. And David Ignatius, I want to close here with you, who you're saying at this point, the one thing that's missing is unity between Democrats and Republicans and authentic unity about what's really going on.

Not isolated comments about violence being bad and crime being up. And we wish him the best. Absolutely. Absolutely. We wish him the best. Absolutely, Mika. Our election system, its integrity, people's confidence that they won't be attacked or followed when they go to the polls, those are all at risk. And there needs to be a broad statement that this is intolerable. I know a number of Republican, moderate Republicans in the House and Senate who face threats themselves. I asked one Republican congressman, could I go home with him to the Midwest to watch him campaign? The answer was no. It's just too crazy out there. It's just not possible right now. I'm under attack. I

get threats every day. A lot of Republicans would say the same thing. I get threatened. I'm I'm I'm afraid it's one reason that they don't speak out. And somehow people have got to find the courage to say this has got to stop. And they've got to they've got to do that. Working closely with the FBI, which is taking this really seriously, which sees across the country the level the level of threats we got. We got to pull together, I think, for the safety and well-being of candidates on both sides of the aisles and and put the integrity of elections back together. So people who are essentially vigilantes aren't trying to run this system. And when somebody like Elon Musk puts out a tweet with no factual basis, he needs to pay a penalty for that. He just he is the richest man in the world. Just bought this company. He needs to he needs to pay a penalty. People need to jump on him and say this is entirely barely deleted the tweet. That's not enough. People

people have to say this is unacceptable if you're if you propose to run this key communications medium. And finally, Jonathan Lemire, was there a resounding response from the White House, at least? Yeah, they swiftly condemned it in the aftermath of the attack. We heard from the president that night in Philadelphia, again over the weekend in Delaware, saying that this violence has no place in our politics. He says he has spoken to Speaker Pelosi. They do feel like her husband is going to make a full recovery, for which they're relieved about. But it's raised questions about additional security needed for lawmakers,

for candidates just a week from the midterms. And we talked earlier about Republicans speaking out. You know, we have not heard from it all yet. Donald Trump, resounding silence. Of course. NBC's Ben Collins, thank you very much. We'll talk to you again very soon. And coming up, fears are mounting this morning for civilians in Ukraine

after a new wave of Russian missile strikes hit critical infrastructure in Kiev and across the country. We'll have the latest on the war and analysis from retired Navy Admiral James Stavridis. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. 48 past the hour, a series of explosions rocked Kiev early this morning as Russia launched a new round of missile strikes targeting critical infrastructure. The mayor of Kiev says part of the Ukrainian capital has been cut off from power and water supplies. The scale of the attack wasn't immediately clear, but an advisor to Ukraine's interior ministry said Russia launched 40 cruise missiles at different targets across the country. Joining us now, retired four-star Navy Admiral James Tavridis. He is NBC News and

MSNBC chief international analyst and former Supreme Allied commander of NATO. Want to talk about Ukraine, but we also want to talk about the problems that we are facing in this country in light of the attack on Paul Pelosi. But first, update us on the state of this war and how Ukraine is doing in light of the fact that Russia keeps coming at them. Yes, they're struggling. Yes, they're dragging anybody in to force them to fight. But these these are impactful attacks. Indeed, they are. And let's sort of stipulate that Putin, if he can't take it, if he can't take Ukraine, he's going to break it. That's kind of his philosophy is destroy it. You know, like the way Soran went after the Shire at the end of Lord of the Rings.

And he will continue striking. This is a card he'll continue to play. In terms of where the war is right now, the Russians are still on their back foot. There's an important city called Kherson, which is the gateway to Crimea. I think that will fall to the Ukrainians. And that's a good thing because it's psychologically or critically important. But there's a third combatant about to enter the battle, Ukraine, Russia and winter. Not to go all Game of Thrones on you, but winter is coming and it will impact both sides.

It will slow the military action. But I think in that winter period, unfortunately, you'll see Putin continue these long range strikes. Our job to conclude is to provide the Ukrainians the best support we can and in particular, enhance their air defense systems. So Putin's strategy will not be successful. Clint. Yeah, Admiral, I was wondering what you thought about Russia in terms of their strategy. We've been talking, you know, for you thought about Russia in terms of their strategy. We've been talking, you know, for six months about their ability to fight. And now can they continue to fight? You know, some of my research team, we see Russian troops showing up literally with just a bayonet. They don't don't even have water drinking out of puddles.

What would the effect be inside Russia if even through the winter, Russia can't really feel the military anymore? You know, what do you see in terms of that? First, I agree completely with your analysis that the Russian capability to take these 300000 troops that they have pulled out of homeless shelters, pulled out of bars who are dead drunk, dragged off to recruiting stations. They're being told to buy their own sleeping bags, bring their own bandages with them, and as you say, have no real military capabilities. So as that cannon fire heats the Ukrainian war machine, I think you will see reverberations back in Moscow. But again, with winter, it's going to have a slowing effect on both sides of that firing line. And Admiral, there's reports out just this morning, the mayor of Kiev says that because

these latest strikes, 80 percent of the capital city right now without access to water or power, which is a real thing, especially as the weather continues to get colder. These terror strikes clearly are Putin's M.O. going forward, trying to rattle Ukrainian resolve as well as Europeans and their unity to stay with Ukraine here, as we see in another report today, just how inflation is soaring across the continent. Are you concerned here that as Putin shifts tactics, there could be some cracks in the alliance overseas? I think we're going to see a little bit of creaking at both ends of the political spectrum, both here in the United States, where we've seen McCarthy kind of walk a little bit away on the left side. You saw a group of progressives kind of put out a statement. They pulled it back.

But you feel a little creaking to the support here. And I think similarly, Jonathan, in Europe, you're going to see more stress on the political system. But my assessment, both here in the U.S. and in Europe, is that this coalition will hold together, particularly if the Ukrainians continue, as I think they will, to be more successful on the battlefield than the Russians. One final point. We haven't mentioned it, but Russia is now talking about pulling out of this grain agreement of shipping grain out of Ukraine. They're doing that because it will damage the Ukrainian economy. They won't have assets coming in because it'll enhance the price of Russian grain, which can still be sold to those who are not honoring the

sanctions. And it'll put inflationary pressure in the West. See paragraph one about creating cracks in the political system. So Putin still has cards to play. David Ignatius. Admiral Stavridis, you spoke about Putin's efforts to break Ukraine and they don't seem to be working. I was there several weeks ago. Boy, you'd hear nothing but defiant resolve. So my question for you is whether you think it's likely or possible that Putin will seek to further escalate in significant ways. And in particular, what's your own personal evaluation would be about the use of tactical nuclear weapons? Yeah, let's start with a historical analogy, David, during World War II, Hitler's strategy was to launch air raids, try and demoralize the population. How'd that work out? As you correctly point out in Ukraine today, it simply energizes the population. It gives lift to inspirational leaders like Winston Churchill,

who I think Zelensky is channeling pretty well in this moment. In terms of would Putin reach for the nuclear card, not the strategic one, not a big nuclear exchange. Look, I despise Vladimir Putin, but I'll give him this. He loves his country. He loves Russia. He doesn't seek a global war that destroys Russia alongside much of the world. So would he use a tactical nuke? David, I think the chances of that have increased perhaps to 10 percent, still unacceptably high. My own evaluation is he will not choose to do that simply because it would swing many nations that are still kind of in the middle on this over against Putin. That would be disastrous for his economy.

I don't look for the use of a nuclear weapon, David. All right, Admiral, stay with us. And Clint Watts, thank you very much for being on this morning. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we have much more on the violent threats elected officials have faced over the past few years. We're going to get the Admiral's take and get Michael Steele back into the conversation, plus a check on where polling stands in some of the key races now,

just over a week away from Election Day. Morning Joe will be right back.