Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/15/23

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Thousands attend March for Israel in Washington D.C. ...

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 I think we've been up here for an extended period of time. I think people are just somewhat getting tired. Listen, you have little things that happen from time to time. It is not that big a deal. Get over it. There are dumb days on Capitol Hill, and there are dumber days on Capitol Hill. And this is one of the dumbest I've seen in quite a long time. Yeah, the House passed a bill.
Starting point is 00:00:22 That's the news, to avoid a government shutdown. But all of it was fighting, overshadowed by childish behavior, pushing, shoving. All over the hill. By Republicans in both chambers. We're going to show you more of those antics in just a moment. You see that one guy, Willie, get up. He's starting to take off his ring. I'm going to play by man rules. I'm taking off his ring. I'm going to play by man rules.
Starting point is 00:00:46 I'm taking off my ring. And I'm going to fight you. Come on. Bernie Sanders, one of the best, like, WWE reps of all time. Hold on. Sit down. Stop this. None of this.
Starting point is 00:01:01 Can I speak, Mr. Chairman? No, you cannot. No, you cannot. Sit down and be quiet. I mean, and you notice they all did. Right. Bernie took control. Yeah. Bernie was the grown up in the room. He said, you are a United States senator. Sit down. And this Senator Mullen persisted from Oklahoma trying to fight the head of an American labor union, physically fight in the United States. Wow. I tell you what, a lot, a lot, a lot of news. We have, by the way, front page of the Wall Street Journal this March, man, in Washington, just incredible, incredible rally, not only for Israel.
Starting point is 00:01:45 Some people say this is a rally for Israel. I think it's a rally for all Jewish people who are under siege across the world. And sadly, tragically, not just in Israel and in Gaza, but sadly for who we are as a people on some of our most elite college campuses, Willie, I would love to tell you that, you know, word from my children and and friends of my children are are saying, hey, we're turning a Not the anti-Semitism on college campuses. Here we are over a month later. It's just it's gross. It's sickening. And yet you have to hold the presidents of the universities accountable. You have to hold. I mean, the the the signs that they're allowing up. Some of that is not free speech. Some of it is just just just Hamas propaganda. And they allow our children's brains to be rotted with it. It's grotesque. It is grotesque. And it's been over a month of this now, just explicitly since the war. It's been many, many years, of course, before that. But we have seen a small handful of these schools push back. Some of it is token. Some of it looks like gestures where there have said to some of these groups for 30 days, you cannot hold events on our campus because some of the rhetoric we've seen from you talking about some of the pro-Palestine and frankly,
Starting point is 00:03:14 in some cases, pro-Hamas marches and rallies that we've seen. But that scene, the pictures we're looking at yesterday, a massive crowd, more than 100,000 people by some measures, totally peaceful, calling for the return of the hostages, many of them children, some of them senior citizens being held inside Israel. Some political leaders were there, too. But you're right, Joe, this was about more than Israel. This was about Jewish people around the world and here in the United States feeling under siege in the last month or so? Jewish people being under siege and just just a couple of things. First of all, it is fine to I think we would all agree here that that rallying for the Palestinian people fine.
Starting point is 00:03:59 I mean, the Palestinian people have been treated horribly. I mean, you look at what Assad did to the Palestinian people. You look at the tens of thousands of Palestinians that were killed by Assad in Syria. You look at what's happened to Palestinian people being killed and treated badly across the Middle East by other Arab countries. You look at the 500,000 Arabs slaughtered by Assad in Syria during that civil war. I mean, yes, I think we're all sickened by it. And we talk about it here all the time. It's just it's really bizarre that that when Arabs kill Palestinians.
Starting point is 00:04:38 Well, gee, there are no protests. When Assad kills tens of thousands of Palestinians, no, no protests suddenly say, yeah, whatever. We don't care. Leave us alone. But when there's a chance to attack Jews, that's when suddenly everybody jumps on and suddenly becomes this massive cause. Because and we're going to talk about this right now. We're going to talk about the fact that it's been confirmed now. It's been confirmed that Hamas is hiding their troops and their operations in hospitals. And we've talked about this. And Willie, I've just got to say, if a U.S. commander ever, you know, there's there's this moral ambiguity and
Starting point is 00:05:27 this moral confusion, not only on college campuses, but among elites across America and the West. Make no mistake of it. There is no moral confusion here. If a U.S. commander ever suggested or ever moved troops in a hospital to hide from the enemy, they would immediately be court-martialed. They would be taken out of the command structure of the United States military. They would be court-martialed. They'd be dishonorably discharged. If just one did that with Hamas, that is their strategy. We knew from the day the attacks came, they were going to go. They were going to hide behind civilians. They were going to hide in schools.
Starting point is 00:06:13 They were going to hide in hospitals. We knew that. And it's exactly, Willie, what it's exactly what's happened. It's again, Wall Street Journal editorial page talking about it in their lead editorial, talking about the fact that today in Gaza, Hamas terrorists use the same war crime tactics that ISIS did in the Battle of Mosul. Only now observers rush to apologize for it. When ISIS was hiding in hospitals in the Battle of Mosul, oh, everybody said, this is the worst thing in the world.
Starting point is 00:06:50 Now that Hamas is doing it, it's not Hamas that's getting criticized. It's the Israeli people who are trying to root out the terrorists who are hiding in hospitals, who have their command structures in hospitals, because they want to be able to slaughter, rape, burn, beat, kill, behead Israelis. And torture families of hostages. And torture families of hostages and get away with it.
Starting point is 00:07:20 Because they're like, you know what? We know. And Hamas, you got to hand it to them. They know how cynical enemies of Israel are. They knew they could rape women. They knew they could burn grandmothers. They knew they could shoot babies' bodies. They knew they could burn them.
Starting point is 00:07:41 And then they knew they could go hide in the civilian population in Gaza and the world would stop Israel. They knew that. And by the way, we said that here a month ago. And that's exactly what's happened, Willie. That's exactly what the world has called for. They're saying just, you know what? Cease fire. Just let them go ahead. Kill your families, rape your daughters, shoot your children, burn your grandmothers and then just just let it be. Cease fire. And to your point, the National Security Council here in the United States said yesterday now for the first time publicly that, yes, Hamas is hiding weapons, ammo and people, civilians in those hospitals hospitals putting themselves behind the civilians. I mean, the difference that what you're laying out is the United States military, the Israeli militaries, most militaries around the world. They put themselves between the enemy and the civilians.
Starting point is 00:08:34 Hamas, which is not an army, it's a terrorist death cult, puts civilians between the enemy and themselves to hide and protect themselves. And we should say the same thing about this question about fuel, which is direly needed in this hospital around Hamas has fuel. We'll say it again. Hamas has fuel. They're using it to fight this war. They're using it to attack civilians and kill people in Israel. They have fuel. They could be giving it to power those generators at the hospitals. So those tragic scenes of infants dying didn't have to happen so that people didn't have to be taken off life support. Hamas has fuel. They just don't want to use it because they don't care about their own people. Well, and what if we said here from day one,
Starting point is 00:09:19 when Hamas kills a Jew, that's a victory for Hamas. When a Palestinian dies, that's a victory for Hamas. And when a Palestinian baby dies because Hamas holds the fuel so they don't power the generators for the hospitals where they're hiding. That's an even bigger victory for Hamas. It is a death cult. And Willie just put it best. In the United States, our men and women in uniform put themselves between civilians and the enemy. Hamas, that death cult, they do just the opposite. They put civilians between
Starting point is 00:10:08 people that are coming to bring justice to them for their terrorist acts. They put civilians between them and the people that are looking for them. We have Richard Haass and Jonathan Greenback and many others coming up to talk about this and we'll continue our coverage. We also are going to preview the high stakes meeting today between President Joe Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping. And we'll show you what President Biden had to say about Donald Trump's Veterans Day speech, where he called his political rivals vermin. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the hosts of way too early White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire and U.S. special correspondent for BBC News,
Starting point is 00:10:50 Katty Kaye joins us as well. Let's get back to the politics here at home. Big news late yesterday, a potential government shutdown in just two days is looking a lot less likely this morning after the House passed Speaker Mike Johnson's unconventional stopgap funding bill yesterday, largely with the help of Democrats. This is interesting. The two-step plan was approved on a bipartisan vote of 336 to 95, 209 Democrats and 127 Republicans voted in favor of this. 93.
Starting point is 00:11:26 Did they kick the speaker out for this. They did not. Because that's exactly why they were going to kick McCarthy out. He couldn't pass a bill. But but but Democrats support there was kicking and shoving. It just wasn't among the Democrats. Ninety three Republicans and two Democrats voted against it. The move essentially punts the Republicans spending a fine until after the holidays. Speaker Johnson told reporters he was pleased with the outcome. Your first big bill, sir, how does it feel? We just had to get the job done. We'll do it day by day. Any concern about the number of Republican defections there were? We'll get our team together and run the agenda. We're ready to do that. How do you get your team together from here? You'll see. The measure does not include spending cuts or any additional conservative
Starting point is 00:12:10 policy add ons. It also does not. I know it does not include a supplemental package covering things like aid for Israel and Ukraine or additional U.S. So so Jonathan O'Meara, back to the Wall Street Journal editorial page. They've got an editorial saying saying meet the new speaker. Same as the old speaker taken, of course, and we won't get fooled again. Let me read this for a second, because I know it brings up the question we were all asking, which is like, wait a second, if Kevin McCarthy had done this, he would have been kicked out as speaker. The Wall Street Journal editorial page writes this pop quiz. What's the difference between
Starting point is 00:12:54 the bipartisan stopgap funding bill that passed the House Tuesday under new speaker Mike Johnson and the September equivalent passed by former Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Answer, nothing but the self-defeating Republican drama. So much for the claim that their goal was electing a, quote, committed conservative as speaker. And they finish up, the lack of rebellion this week from the Republican rump is welcome. And apparently deposing two speakers in a few weeks was too much even for them. But it further exposes the hollow claims the McCarthy eight made for their October exhibitionism. And that's all it was. It was sound, fury and gestures signifying nothing. But what did we say?
Starting point is 00:13:43 An attempt to get more hits on TikTok and more clicks and more $25 donations from across. Think of, you committed conservative. Oh, he's really committed. Oh, what? They're not putting up with the bullshit that's going on in Washington, D.C. They're going to get a real conservative. And what did they do? They got a guy that passed the bill the same way Kevin McCarthy passed the bill because, and this is important
Starting point is 00:14:15 for the grownups in the room, it was the only way to pass the bill. Yeah, there are a few things at play here. One is simply fatigue. I think there was a sense that Republicans didn't want to go through another messy couple of weeks ousting, you know, fighting over the speaker, potentially ousting a speaker, shutting down the government. They didn't want to do that right now. Now, we can talk separately about the wisdom about punting that fight into an election year, which they have now done, assuming this does pass indeed the Senate and then goes to the president for his signature. Johnson, you're right. He just did what cost McCarthy his
Starting point is 00:14:50 job. I think there's some sense among Republicans they get to give Johnson some time. He's only been on the job a couple of weeks. He also has more MAGA credentials in some ways than McCarthy did. You know, he, of course, was the author of some of the big lie petitions, legal petitions in 2020. Also with McCarthy, it was clearly very personal with Matt Gaetz and others. That's also something that led to his ouster and perhaps why McCarthy was in such a foul mood yesterday, which we'll get to in his confrontation with a colleague on the Hill. But what this does is it likely keeps the lights on for a while. But what it doesn't do, provide any aid to Ukraine, provide any aid to Israel,
Starting point is 00:15:31 provide any border security money, provide any aid to Taiwan. And those are going to be very, very thorny issues going forward. And their future, frankly, uncertain. Let's bring in the co-founder of Punchbowl News, John Bresnahan, who covers Capitol Hill so well and so closely. John, so how did this play out yesterday? How did Speaker Johnson get this much needed victory? It funds the government through the end of the year, at least. But in your view, what's different about this and what cost Speaker McCarthy his job? Yeah, I mean, McCarthy, as Joe pointed out and Jonathan pointed out, look, a lot of these hardline conservatives, they just didn't like McCarthy.
Starting point is 00:16:09 They just they never liked him. They never trusted him. They saw him more as a political operator than as a committed conservative, whereas they see Johnson as he is a hardline conservative. He was involved in the legal cases in 2020. He's a hardline conservative. He was involved in the legal cases in 2020. He's a devout Christian. He I mean, there's no challenging his religious beliefs. He really is a devout Christian. He's one of them. And that, I think, helped him. But if you look at the vote from September 30th, when which which caused McCarthy to be ousted and the vote yesterday, it was essentially the same. There were 90 Republicans who voted against that bill in September 30th, and now there were 93. So it's like it was literally the same bill.
Starting point is 00:16:55 I do think this will give Johnson some more time to pass some appropriations bills or try to pass them. The Senate will work on Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, border security package in December. They'll try to see if they can put something together and then move it to the House. That'll give him some room. They'll press ahead on impeachment of Joe Biden and possibly the impeachment of Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas. He'll throw some bones to the right. But in terms of government funding, he's not going to be able to change the deal McCarthy cut with Biden back in May. That is going to be the deal eventually they're going to have to come to. When House Republicans, you know, admit it, that's where they're going to have to be,
Starting point is 00:17:40 we'll actually be able to fund the government without worrying about shutdowns. Well, that would be nice. Katty Kay, curious your take. Jonathan Lemire said that, you know, one of the reasons this happened is they wanted to avoid the messiness of the past, the McCarthy time. And yet there were skirmishes breaking out across Capitol Hill, which we will show you in a bit. But my God, tensions were running high. I mean, it's like a bunch of children up there on Capitol Hill at the moment. I mean, it's great that they've managed to keep government open during the holidays so that people are not going to be losing their paychecks over Thanksgiving and
Starting point is 00:18:13 over the Christmas holidays. That's wonderful news. But the fact that McCarthy was accused of elbowing somebody in the back may tell us all we need to know about why Mike Johnson managed to get this through and Captain Johnson managed to get this through and Kevin McCarthy could not get this through. It does not seem to me that Mike Johnson is the kind of person that goes around, you know, thumping people in the back or allegedly thumping people in the back. So perhaps that all it accounts for. People really just didn't like Kevin McCarthy. Clearly, Nancy Mace has her own issues with Kevin McCarthy, felt that she had he had promised her something on trying to protect rape victims and then never actually done it.
Starting point is 00:18:48 And maybe it's as simple as that. They just didn't like Kevin. But, John, when you look at what this leads us into and we have now the setup for the prospect of all of this having to be replayed in January, February, early in the new year, those 93 Republicans who voted against Mike Johnson effectively, what happens to them? I know he's calling himself an arch conservative, but how many more passes are they going to give him? I think he gets this one. I really don't see him getting another one. I don't think they'll oust Johnson even in January. I mean, I wouldn't bet on it now. I mean, where else should they go?
Starting point is 00:19:27 We saw the 22 days it took them to get Johnson in the first place. There's no one in that conference, in the Republican conference, out of the 221 members who could unite them and they'd get a vote like that. There's literally no one. Johnson was the least offensive across the broad spectrum of the conference. So I think that's another thing he's got in his favor. But he's again, I mean, they, you know, McCarthy cut a deal in May. The Senate is living with the deal. Biden wants to live with the deal. They're going to have to come back to that deal at some point. They're going to have to deal with it. Now, again, he's got leverage on Ukraine. The president really wants Ukraine funding.
Starting point is 00:20:06 It's a huge problem. He could put his speakership on the line if he puts a Ukraine bill on the floor. He said he's going to be open to discussion about it. I mean, this is a huge, huge, you know, globally important issue. So, I mean, we will see what happens in December. This is not just about Republican infighting. What happens in Congress plays out across the country and across the planet. So, you know, these are these are really big issues.
Starting point is 00:20:33 Yeah. And equally as big an issue. Katty Kay, I like your top because it matches exactly mine. We have the same top line. You guys called each other. I got to say, I told you that sometimes. Sometimes you. I told her we do that sometimes. Sometimes you need it. Sort of some uniformity. It makes life simple.
Starting point is 00:20:51 Try to build a community. It really does. It's easier that way. It really does. That's why I wear the clothes in the morning that I go to sleep and the night before. We do not do that. You know what's so interesting, though, is again, we've mentioned it, but these Republicans refuse to fund the southern border. They just refuse to.
Starting point is 00:21:12 Joe Biden has put a lot of money out to fund the southern border, a lot of money out to support Israel, a lot of money out to to to support stop stop Russian tyranny. And these Republicans just say no, say no to stopping Russian tyranny, say no to supporting Israel. And they say no to funding the southern border. It's a real mess. And up next in one minute, drama will show you the tense day on the Hill for House Republicans with a firsthand account from the NPR correspondent who was there when former Speaker Kevin McCarthy allegedly elbowed Tennessee Republican Tim Burchett. We're back in 60 seconds. Wow. Look how pretty my teacher is dialed up for us. Just I love the morning.
Starting point is 00:22:06 Absolutely beautiful view of the southern part of Manhattan. That's New York. It's pretty in New York and Washington. Well, depending on where you were, there were some ugly moments, tensions among House Republicans spilled over yesterday. Hold on. Are you going to go back to your newspaper? So this is interesting. Joe started getting newspapers and he loves it. It's like Christmas every time the papers come. He loves his newspapers.
Starting point is 00:22:37 Go ahead. Interrupt. Continue. You remember a couple of days ago, Jonathan O'Meara, we were talking about the proper way to say I-10 on the West Coast. Yes. Willie was not here. There's a story right now about I-10 closed.
Starting point is 00:22:54 Mika, I think it was a mistake. No. I don't think she knows that you add a the to all the 405, right? She does not know that. So we all learned this, of course, from Tina Fey in 30 Rock when she took her ill-fated trip out to Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots.
Starting point is 00:23:14 But she learned that you always put a V in front of whatever you're at. But Mika said the I-10. That just did not sound right to me. Yeah, and Jonathan O'Meara, But Mika said the I-10. That just did not sound right to me. And Jonathan O'Meara, you actually linked up with Politico's West Coast Bureau. And what did they tell you? Yeah, I did a little reporting on this because just like to you, Joe, it didn't seem quite right to me. There's also the SNL skit. The Californians also dug into this.
Starting point is 00:23:41 Oh, yeah. So it's not because we're mostly there. It's not the I-10. It's simply the 10 or the 405 or whatever it might be. So you can drop the I. The 10. That's how they do it in Southern California. The 10 freeway, which we should note will be closed for a few weeks now because of the fire. That's terrible.
Starting point is 00:24:00 The arson fire. But they don't have any suspects yet. Gavin Newsom, the governor there, provided that update yesterday on the 10. So Willie was, of course, he was on doing some reporting in Vail on Monday, so he wasn't able to be with us. But Willie, you would have known this because you hang out with stars. I bet you knew just instinctively. Yeah, Mr. Hollywood. It's like called the 10, right? Yeah, I think we're showing a little East Coast bias here. Definitely is the 10th definite article than just the number out in Southern California. The 10, the 405, for example.
Starting point is 00:24:34 OJ is moving slowly up the 405. Like that kind of, just to give you an example. We should do this conversation again in the fourth hour for our West Coast viewers so they know. Yeah. Of course. Or maybe not. Well, let me tell you, there's some up right now. Hi, San Bernardino.
Starting point is 00:24:50 OK, a lot of people. So let's get back to politics. Good education on West Coast lingo. All right. Tensions among House Republicans spilled over yesterday when former Speaker Kevin McCarthy allegedly elbowed one of his colleagues who voted to remove him from his position last month. Don't do that. Five years old. While being interviewed after a conference meeting, Tennessee Republican Tim Burchett says he was hit from behind by McCarthy. Come on.
Starting point is 00:25:18 Burchett initially apologized, thinking he had been in the wrong, but then chased McCarthy down the hall to confront him. NBR congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales captured audio of the altercation. Take a listen. I think it went all right. Sorry, Kevin, didn't mean to help. Why'd you elbow me in the back, Kevin? Hey, Kevin, you got any guts? Jerk. Has he done that before? No.
Starting point is 00:25:51 Huh. That's a new move. Hey, Kevin, why'd you walk by me and elbow me in the back? You got no guts. You did so. They sat there and the reporter said it right there. What kind of chicken move is that? You're pathetic, man.
Starting point is 00:26:06 You are so pathetic. And NPR's Claudia Grisales joins us now. That happened right in front of you. And they knew that you were in the middle of an interview. So you were rolling. It's kind of like work in the middle school cafeteria, except these are the people that lead our country. Tell us about it. Yeah, it was very stunning. This is a tradition Tuesday mornings when Republicans meet in a nearby conference room in the basement area.
Starting point is 00:26:37 And we often talk with members as they pull off to the side of this hallway. Burchett had done the same. He had come to the side to talk to me. And as you heard there, he said one sentence to me before he was shoved. He lurched into me. We were about two feet apart. He probably lurched about a foot in front of me. And so it was just a very shocking moment. I look over.
Starting point is 00:27:01 I see it's McCarthy in his detail. They are not stopping at all during that entire confrontation. McCarthy's looking back to respond to Burchett and deny it, even chuckling at one point when Burchett is saying you're a pathetic man. But it was just stunning what happened. I kept repeating over and over to him and others. I cannot believe I just saw that. So, Claudia, from your view, it was a little shot from the former speaker to Burchett. He was shoved and because he lurched into me and also it was clear to me, I thought initially it was a joke. But then a few seconds passed before I realized this was not a joke at all.
Starting point is 00:27:43 Well, as you said, McCarthy later on even denied giving what Burchard described as a shot to the kidneys. The Tennessee Republican, though, not backing down from his version of events. I did not run and hit the guy. I did not kidney punch him. I did not shoot anything like that. You didn't shove him. No, I did not go up.
Starting point is 00:28:02 If I if I would hit somebody, they would know I did. Come on, I'll take I'll take If I would hit somebody, they would know I did. Come on. I'll take a polygraph test and have Kevin take a polygraph test. What did you say to him? Are you for being there? Oh, I'm okay, ma'am. Look, I'm, you know, it's not a big deal. It's just a little different the way people react in Tennessee than they do in California.
Starting point is 00:28:20 In Tennessee, if you've got a problem with somebody, you take it to them face-to-face. I guess in Southern California, where he's from, you take a cheap shot at somebody from behind. You have $17 million in a security detail and it'll still be a bully. Wow. Just taking a broad shot at Southern California there. This is not the first time McCarthy has been accused of hitting a fellow Republican. Former Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger says McCarthy did the same thing to him on a couple of separate occasions. John Bresnahan, I wish we had it in front of us. I don't have it. But you had a great tweet yesterday. You've been covering Capitol Hill for a long time.
Starting point is 00:28:55 I think you said this is one of, if not the dumbest days you've ever witnessed. I thought Congress can't get dumber, you wrote. And then today happened. Yeah, it was. I mean, if you take this. Sorry, Brad, we're just reading your next tweet, which is please, God, make the stupid stop. I mean, we had this. We had the Mark Wayne, Senator Mark Wayne Mullen challenging, you know, a witness to a fight, the head of the Teamsters. We, you know, we had Jim Comer, chairman of the Oversight Committee, calling Jared Moskowitz, the congressman, a Democrat from California, calling him a liar and a smurf. I mean, we just yesterday was just. Yeah. Yesterday was just a hurricane of stupid. I mean, it was like, you know, look, I think part of it is that the House has been in session for 10 straight weeks. Joe knows this. Members, they get restless. They
Starting point is 00:29:51 don't like being around each other that much. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's not an excuse for physical violence. I mean, come on. And I'm just saying that weird things happen. But I also look, I think there's I think there's a broad a couple broader issues here first it's a coarsening of american politics there's no question about it in the donald trump era you have trump going out saying what he's done and everything and then like we can't take this we can't take this we We can't take this. We can't just dismiss this in post-January 6th. Look, you have Paul Pelosi, this attacker, is on trial right now. This is this is, you know, when people do these stupid incidents, you all know it. It goes blown up on social media. And when the public sees it, they take it as reality and that this is OK.
Starting point is 00:30:42 The political violence is OK. And this is what happens when we get, you know, members are shot at malls. People, you know, poor Steve Scalise. I mean, stuff that you can't you can't just start like this at a little thing and expect it not to blow up into a big thing out in the public. Well, and you had Donald Trump a couple of days ago mocking Paul Pelosi, a guy in his 80s who almost got beaten to death. And Donald Trump's making jokes about it. We talked a couple of days ago about you had a Republican member of Congress beat up a reporter, beat up a reporter a few years ago for asking a question about health care reform. And what did Donald Trump do?
Starting point is 00:31:26 He praised him for beating up a reporter. So, of course, this follows and you see it in the House. Just thank God. Thank God we have the House of Lords. We have the upper chamber where people, you know what? It is the most exclusive club in the world. And this doesn't happen in the Senate. I hate to break your heart. But it does there as well as Bresch mentioned, a brawl nearly broke out on the other side of Congress yesterday during a hearing of the Senate Help Committee. Again, these are our leaders there.
Starting point is 00:32:00 Oklahoma Republican Mark Wayne Mullen challenged one of the hearing's witnesses. You wouldn't think a guy with three names would do this. The president of the Teamsters Union to a fight. Sir, this is a time, this is a place. If you want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here. Okay, that's fine. Perfect.
Starting point is 00:32:22 You want to do it now? I'd love to do it right now. Well, stand your butt up then. You stand your butt up. Oh, hold on. Oh, stop it.. Perfect. You want to do it now? I'd love to do it right now. Well, stand your butt up then. You stand your butt up. Oh, hold on. Oh, stop it. Is that your solution to every problem? Sit down. Sit down. You're a United States senator.
Starting point is 00:32:33 All right, well, let's sit down and have coffee. Let's do it. I'd love to do it. It's funny how you're backing up. I don't back on anything. You did. You're the one. You're a 100. Senator. You should be the most influential people in this country making changes.
Starting point is 00:32:44 You're focused on debate that's not even relevant? You're an embarrassment. You're an embarrassment. You're an embarrassment to the state of Oklahoma. You know, I understand Mullen was like a former MMA fighter. But Willie, I'm leaving the Teamster alone. I'm letting him be. Sean and all of Sean's Irish brothers,
Starting point is 00:33:12 I'm not getting close to him. He looks like he can handle himself quite well. What is going on? It's just, I mean, you're waiting for, it's like the anchorman scene where they just come out with the more preposterous groups that want to join the fight.
Starting point is 00:33:25 We've got the House. We've got the Senate. We've got another one. How about Bernie? There is a little backstory here. As you mentioned, these two guys kind of been going at it on social media, I guess, since back in June. Mullen first challenged the Teamsters president to a fight. And that was in response to a tweet where the union boss referred to Mullen as a clown and a fraud as they went back and forth. And now for the first time, John, I guess they saw each other face to face and decided, let's do it now. That's Sean O'Brien, pride of Medford, Massachusetts.
Starting point is 00:33:56 They're on the other side of that confrontation. And yeah, this was, as you say, this had worked up on social media. We saw the senator there start to pull off his rings because he was going to throw down. But I think it can't be said. It can't be said enough. Credit to Bernie Sanders, who immediately said the United States called him out. United States senator were better than this, called it into recess. It eventually cooled down, except it didn't because the senator later went on to a television interview last, suggesting he's happy to throw it out at any time. Not at all suggesting he would back away from a physical confrontation.
Starting point is 00:34:28 And Joe, his defense, Senator Mullen in that interview, he said, well, back in the 1850s, you could cane each other. If we disagreed, we'd just beat each other up. We need to go back to Senator Sumter in 1856, was his argument. Andrew Jackson was that. I mean, FYI, Capehart says Mark Wayne is one name. Yeah, but it's like, you know, it's like Ricky Bobby's two names, but it's really two names that are two first names. I mean.
Starting point is 00:34:53 And Mark Wayne, you know, that senator, he's got three names. You expect if you have three names that you're dignified. Do you think Claudia's glad she came on this morning? I'm sure she is. This NPR reporter with such elegance. Well, I mean, there's a lot of fights breaking out here. And, Cady, it's, again, this is seen by Americans, right? I mean, thank God nobody brought a trident to the fight. But this is seen by Americans. These are the people who are supposed to be leading us. And and again, it's it's
Starting point is 00:35:27 governing by gesture. But as Wall Street Journal, what was there? What did they they talk about? Well, they talk about the drama. Oh, October exhibitionism. Well, that exhibitionism has gone into November now and it's just pathetic. Yeah. Have you noticed Mika that it was all men involved in all of those little altercations? I mean, I'm just putting it out there. What I loved was Kevin McCarthy saying, oh, well, if I
Starting point is 00:35:56 hit somebody, they'd know about it. That's his defense of what he did, that actually oh, I'm much tougher than that and I get into fights all the time and when I do, people really know that I flawed them on the ground as if that's meant to be some kind of mitigating factor. Well, you know, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. And I think, you know, Bernie Sanders, thank God. But he's from the old school of how things are done. I mean, the worry is that there's the old school of how things are done. And it's Bernie
Starting point is 00:36:22 Sanders' school saying you're a United States senator. Behave better than that. And then there's the old school of how things are done, and it's Bernie Sanders' school saying you're a United States senator, behave better than that. And then there's a new school where the language over the last few years in American politics has become more violent. You hear people talking about civil war. You hear the former president saying at rallies that people should be punched, that he would like to punch them if they disheckle him or something at a rally in 2016. So it gets into the ether.
Starting point is 00:36:46 It becomes normalized. People get habituated to that kind of language. And it leads to the kind of scenes we saw yesterday. Pathetic. But but wait, there's more. There was how Republican House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer responded to Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida. It started when Congressman Moskowitz asked the Kentucky Republican about a Daily Beast story published last week, asserting that Congressman Comer loaned his brother accused President Biden of engaging in shady business practices by loaning the same amount of money to his brother, James Biden. Comer denied any suspicious activity and then went off on Moskowitz.
Starting point is 00:37:38 I went to the bank and I borrowed money and I bought that land. I didn't get wires from Romania, China. My family doesn't get wires, okay? Never loaned my brother money. Don't have an LLC. But you and Goldman, who is Mr. Trust Fund, continue to try to- Reclaiming my time. No, I'm not gonna give you your time back.
Starting point is 00:38:03 We can stop the clock. You all continue to... You look like a smurf here, just going around and all this stuff. Now, listen... Mr. Chairman, you have... No, I'm going to tell you something. No, no, hold on.
Starting point is 00:38:13 If we're not on time... You continue to spew disinformation. You have gone on TV and said the president did something illegal. You're doing stuff with your brother. The American people have the same questions. Why should they believe you? Why should they same questions. Why should they believe you? Why should they believe you?
Starting point is 00:38:27 Why should they believe you? There's a different rule for the president. There's a different rule for you. Why should they believe what you're saying, Mr. Chairman? Why? You go on Fox News and say loans and deals are a way to evade taxes. We don't know if that's what you're doing or not. We don't know.
Starting point is 00:38:41 We have no idea. We're supposed to take your word for it. But when the president says something, he's not telling us. Well, you've already been proven a liar, Mr. Moskowitz. What's that? You've already been proven a liar. Who's proven me a liar? You? Yes. Your word means nothing, Mr. Chairman. Well, come on, go to my hometown. There's a camera crew there today, an opposition research crew there today. Mr. Chairman, this seems to have gotten under your skin. I'll pay for your ticket. I think the American people have lots of questions, Mr. Chairman, this seems to have gotten under your skin. I'll pay for your ticket. I think the American people have lots of questions, Mr. Chairman,
Starting point is 00:39:07 and perhaps you should sit maybe for a deposition. I will be happy. I will sit with Hunter Biden and Jim Biden, and we can go over our LLC. I can tell you when I was there not so long ago, Chairman never acted. They just didn't take the bait like that. And Willie, for a Comer to call anybody a Smurf proves only one thing, says they look like a Smurf. They obviously don't have mirrors in the Comer household. Well, I just it's hard to know what to say watching that back and
Starting point is 00:39:43 forth again. Brez, this gets back to the investigation. Comer is leading into the Biden family, into Hunter Biden. And he has said himself, well, we got an awful lot of smoke, no fire yet. And I guess when you don't have any fire, you engage in fights like this as a distraction, perhaps. Oh, he's gone pretty much accused uh biden of bribery i mean if you i mean i've interviewed comer he he's pretty much said it uh right hasn't proven it though is what i mean yeah we guys not of course they have not proven anything at all but he i mean he clearly believes it the speaker mike johnson seems to see think you know uh biden has done something wrong as well. I do think the tension you've seen in House
Starting point is 00:40:27 Republicans, you've seen this since January, this entire Congress. They had this razor-thin majority. Remember the stuff on the floor with Mike Rogers and Matt Gaetz and Richard Hudson, another congressman had to pull Mike Rogers from Alabama away from Gates when we saw that fight in January. We've seen this throughout this Congress. Republicans are fighting over the future of their party, the future of their parties at stake here. And it's the tension inside their party, their enemies. In fact, their enemies, they seem more, you know, the moderates in their own party are more of an enemy than the Democrats are, which is just, you know, that's what it's become. And by by moderates, actually, there's so few moderates there, if any, you're really talking about people who don't want to burn the institution down.
Starting point is 00:41:20 I moderates when I was there meant something completely different. Even 10 years ago meant something completely different. Even 10 years ago meant something completely different. Now, what moderate means is somebody that doesn't want to burn the place down, destroy the institution. A moderate is somebody who wants to get things done. I do have to say, just to follow up on Comer, Comer's proven absolutely nothing. It's like, again, going back to the Wall Street Journal editorial page about a month ago, said Comer, it's all smoke, no fire.
Starting point is 00:41:50 Right. And he can keep searching. They suggested keep searching, see if you can find anything. But time after time after time after time, it proves he has nothing. And in fact, he's like, I hope we can find something. And yet they've launched an impeachment inquiry with absolutely no evidence. And they've admitted. Yeah, they've admitted they make the charge and they don't have any of the evidence. And the Republican, the potential and most likely Republican nominee for president is the leader of all of this type of behavior.
Starting point is 00:42:21 He has opened the door to it. Claudia, we'll we'll close this block with you. Final thoughts. Thank you for coming on. But what do you make of this behavior in terms of the grand scheme of things and the direction of the Republican Party, its future? Yeah, it's it's a very tough moment for Republicans. I agree. We've been seeing these struggles since the beginning of the year, and they've only escalated when we saw the speakership fight. It's one reason I've been focusing on House Republicans and their intro party fighting is because of concerns of physical altercations. It just seems like that's where this is all going.
Starting point is 00:42:59 And so as stunning as yesterday was, it was not that shocking in the end. Right. That's what we keep saying. Stunning, but not shocking. Day after day, congressional correspondent and NPR Claudia Grisales and co-founder of Punchbowl News, John Bresnahan. Thank you both very much for coming on this morning and coming up on Morning Joe. We'll be joined by House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to discuss how House Republicans needed help from Democrats to pass that bill to avoid a government shutdown. Plus, we'll preview today's high stakes meeting between President Joe Biden and Chinese President his Chinese counterpart for the first time in a year. Chinese President Xi Jinping landed in San Francisco yesterday where he was greeted on the tarmac by California Governor Gavin Newsom,
Starting point is 00:44:03 Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and U.S. Ambassador to China Nicholas Burns. Biden and Xi's meeting follows a tumultuous year for U.S.-China relations as the superpowers now aim to get back on track. Major issues will be discussed in their talks today, including human rights concerns, the path forward to keeping the relationship stable and the ongoing wars in Europe and the Middle East. Another goal will be finding a path to reopening military communication channels. Yesterday, President Biden was asked how he would define success in their meeting. How would you define success with your meeting with President Xi?
Starting point is 00:44:48 To get back on a normal course of corresponding, being able to pick up the phone and talk to one another if there's a crisis, being able to make sure our military still have contact with one another. We can't take... As I told you, we're not trying to decouple from China.
Starting point is 00:45:07 But what we're trying to do is change the relationship for the better. From my perspective, if in fact the Chinese people who are in trouble right now economically, if the average homeowner or the homeowner, if the average citizen in China was able to have a decent paying job, that benefits them and it benefits all of us. But I'm not going to continue to sustain the support for positions where if we want to invest in China, we have to turn over all our trade secrets. Let's bring in the president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass and MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle. Guys, good morning. Richard, let me start with you.
Starting point is 00:45:46 The stakes for this meeting today, this bilat, are what exactly? And I would just point to the front page of The Wall Street Journal headline, Why She No Longer Brags About the Economy, talking about the swagger he might have had a couple of years ago that he's not bringing to the meeting today. Not so much. Look, this is the critical relationship of this era of history. And this is a relationship that's been deteriorating for several years. Both sides,
Starting point is 00:46:09 though, now really have an interest in establishing what the president always calls a floor. The United States does not need another military type crisis anywhere. We've got our hands full in Europe and the Middle East. Doesn't want China to be helping Russia in Ukraine, is worried about fentanyl and so on. So we have a political military agenda. Chinese economy is in bad shape. They've got all sorts of economic headwinds. So what they're looking for is no more U.S. pressure on their economy. They don't want new sanctions. They don't want new technology controls and so forth. So the two sides have very different agendas. China's is economic.
Starting point is 00:46:47 Ours is political military. But both sides want to stabilize this relationship. They'll get it. There'll be something of a floor. We'll see how strong it is, how long it lasts, what it covers. It's not going to deal with things like Taiwan and the big differences. But all things being equal, I think it'll stop the deterioration in their relationship. But we'll have to see for how long. The same thing happened a year ago in Bali.
Starting point is 00:47:11 They met literally a year and a day ago. They established what they thought was a floor. Then the balloons showed up one day in the United States. The floor didn't last. So we'll see how this goes. Well, Mike, it is because of the economic problems China has been having over the past couple of years, and they've steadily declined over the last two years. A lot of news reports, a lot of foreign policy analysts saying and going back to what was the status quo on that issue. And we've already seen both sides talking about progress on environmental issues as well. This would have been a far different summit six months ago than we hopefully will see today. Yeah, Joe, apparently the key word that you just mentioned is baseline, a baseline for the relationship between China and the United States. And we'll see from the get go what happens here. It'll be clearly evident in the in what we see on TV when the meeting occurs, the first meeting occurs.
Starting point is 00:48:22 But Richard, how does how does a relationship with China improve when you've got two countervailing things happening? China is flooding America with fentanyl, knowingly flooding America with fentanyl. And the United States, obviously, sensibly, is busy putting together relationships up and down the Pacific Rim with Australia, with the Philippines, things like that. What would be success in this relationship? Sometimes in foreign policy, you want to bring about real cooperation. You want to improve relations. Here, probably the definition of success, Mike, is more modest. It's what you want to avoid. More than anything else, the United States and China need to avoid a conflict over Taiwan. We need to avoid China specifically
Starting point is 00:49:05 arming Russia. We don't want China to do things in the Middle East that would make things there more difficult. Now, if beyond that, we can actually get some limited improvement on fentanyl, reestablishing military to military communication. So if there's ever an incident, it doesn't somehow escalate. Again, China's more interested on the economic side. But I think we've got to be modest here. This is a relationship that really hasn't found the definition for itself. It's highly competitive. And the question is, can you avoid having the competition spill over into something conflictual? Now, can you find some limited areas of cooperation amidst the competition? Maybe.
Starting point is 00:49:47 But we're not going to get Chinese help on North Korea. We're probably not going to get Chinese help on Russia. So it's difficult. Does China not have a huge demographic problem? The elderly and the very young, unemployed? Absolutely. China is what? 1.3, 1.4 billion people.
Starting point is 00:50:09 The estimates are, over the rest of the century, over the next 75 years, China is going to go from something where they are now, 1.3, 1.4 billion, to something on the order of 800 million. Massive demographic decline. And as you say already, the ratio of those working to those who are retired is moving in the wrong direction. A lot of young people, some of the best and brightest are leaving. Over 20% youth unemployment, which is a real problem. A really interesting article recently by Evan Osnos in New York talking about Chinese malaise. This 20% youth unemployment, which is a real problem. A really interesting article recently by Evan Osnos in New York talking about Chinese malaise. What Xi Jinping has done is he's strengthened the government, strengthened the Communist Party, but it's had a real effect on the economy and the society. He's prepared to make that deal. He wants to make sure they maintain political control. But China's paying a price for this. So we used to worry that deal. He wants to make sure they maintain political control. But China's paying a price for this.
Starting point is 00:50:47 So we used to worry that China is 10 feet tall. We now understand it's not. But this is still a difficult China. We shouldn't underestimate some of their areas of economic competition, things like AI. They're the world's leader in things, solar and all that. But also, a China that has difficulties at home isn't necessarily an easier China to deal
Starting point is 00:51:06 with abroad. And that's really the challenge facing us. Not easier at all. You know, it is interesting that over the past 10, 15 years, we've had people coming on our show talking about the rising China. It was going to eclipse us. It was going to leave the United States in the dust. I said, no, heard the same things about Japan in 1986, 87, 88, 89. It just wasn't going to happen with Japan. It's not going to happen with China. But there is no doubt, Jonathan Lemire, one of the reasons why the U.S. economy is still so much stronger than than China's are because of a lot of self-inflicted wounds. You look at, again, the demographic problems right now. It's just it's just a demographic time bomb waiting to go off in China. You add on top of that how she is as as as
Starting point is 00:52:01 basically chased down some of the best entrepreneurs and put the fear of the Communist Party in them. So they're not on the cutting edge. What entrepreneurs want to move to China right now? A lot of American businesses don't really care about staying there anymore. They were always talking about expanding. You look at what happens with Hong Kong, all these things. And then just this past week, reports that Xi is trying to encourage young people to move out to the country because there aren't jobs in urban centers. I mean, again, this is a society going through some pretty significant changes,
Starting point is 00:52:44 and a lot of them not good. Yeah, it's a pretty humbled Xi Jinping that comes to this meeting with President Biden, even much more so than a year ago when they did meet in Bali. And to Richard's point of a moment ago, senior White House aides previewing this summit today tell me that that's the expectation here. Just get back to Bali to sort of stabilize where things were before the spy balloon, before a number of other confrontations and flashpoints between these two nations to try to try to sort of take down the temperature a little bit, resume communication on the military level, increase it elsewhere, try to make some progress on climate change, fentanyl. We went through the list, but really it's about to try to just calm things down.
Starting point is 00:53:22 So, frankly, the U.S. can focus on other things because of the situation in Ukraine, because of the Middle East. And of course, this is a president about to head into a reelection year. So that's that's the goals for today. Modest, but important. The two men will meet this afternoon and then Mika will hear from President Biden holding a news conference this evening.

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