Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/19/24

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Trump personally squeezes senators on Matt Gaetz, according to Axios report

The Department of Justice declined to prosecute Matt Gaetz for these allegations. So how should people square that decision with everything that you've laid out here today? Whether or not a federal prosecutor takes a case and decides to move forward on a trial or move forward on an allegation is that particular prosecutor's decision. It doesn't mean they didn't do it. She texted me late last night, regardless of how many times he tries to distract from the truth, the public deserves to know what we all experienced was real and actually happened. An attorney for two women who claim Matt Gaetz paid them for sex several years ago.

Speaking yesterday to NBC's Hallie Jackson, We'll have more from that interview and the new reporting on Donald Trump's push to build support in the Senate for Gates to be his attorney general. Meanwhile, Trump's pick to lead U.S. intelligence services has become a favorite of Russian state media. We'll break down Tulsi Gabbard's comments that align with Kremlin propaganda. Also ahead, the president-elect confirms he plans to use the military to carry out mass deportations of undocumented immigrants. We'll go through how that might work and tell you about the group that's working to push

back. And we'll get a live report from China following a massive crackdown on the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, November 19th, along with Joe, Willie and me. We have the host of Way Too Early, White House beer chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire. MSNBC contributor Mike Barnacle is here with us. President of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC contributor Mike Barnacle is here with us. President of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist

and associate editor of The Washington Post, Eugene Robinson is with us this morning. Good to have you all here. And we're all around the breakfast table. Yeah. That's nice. All we need are some water burgers. Gotta have my coffee. Water burgers for breakfast. Is an aggressive move. all around the breakfast table. Yeah, that's nice. All we need is some water burgers. Water burger for breakfast is an aggressive move.

You've got to move. You've got to do it. You just have to do it. I'm still waiting for a water burger to come north. If Chick-fil-A can go north, what's wrong? I'm just telling Susie Orman I did not buy this. Okay. Okay. All right.

She picked it up off the street. She saw it. She had to drink it. I'm going to take this. I don't buy it. Okay. Okay. All right. Just she picked it up off the street. I can't saw it. It was. I don't see it. I'm going to take this. I can't just drink it. It's important. So thank you for saying that. We all we all are deeply grateful. I know that really. The Dallas Cowboys cannot win.

They stink. They have spent so much money. I've got to ask, has there, I'm serious, has there ever been a team in NFL history that has spent as much money in the off season and has underperformed as badly as this team? They're legitimately terrible. And by the way, they were bad before Dak Prescott got hurt.

So he's out for the season, lost season. Their defense is the worst maybe in the NFL they spent tons of money they got all the weapons that CD lamb taking care of he's a great receiver but nobody to throw to them they got smoked last night by their in state rival the Houston Texans my guy Joe Mixon on my fantasy 3 touchdowns got me a big as we get down the stretcher big win in the fantasy.

That's a much needed for the struggling dice on my face. Thank you for those who is who is worse this year who's the bigger disappointment Jonathan the Dallas Cowboys or the New York. The answer is the New York. Because the Cowboys coming into the season. Yes, it's Jerry Jones, their America's team all that but they they're going to be a wild card contender of best the Jets you could argue when into this season with the highest expectations that

franchise has had in decades totally turning over the franchise to Aaron Rodgers bringing in Devante Adams lots of star players surrounding him with and they have completely fallen apart and I'll just note I mean look the New England Patriots Mike we were no good, but we knew we weren't going in. We went into the lowest, went into the season with the lowest expectations in decades.

The Patriots and the Jets have the exact same record. Here's the difference, the biggest difference between the Jets and the Patriots. The Patriots have a quarterback. They do, yeah. The Jets do not. They have an old man masquerading as a quarterback, trying to pretend that he was who he used to be

10 years ago or five years ago That's not happening. The other interesting aspect of it is on the Giants and the New York football Giants I mean, what are they going to do? I mean the idea and then the Cowboys that you just mentioned The idea that Bill Belichick would be retained to be the next coach of the Dallas Cowboys is absurd because you're looking at a 5 year rebuilding process for that club and bill Belichick is what 8586 age. He's not quite that I don't know that he wants Jerry Jones

in his life. Yeah, listen I I would say every time we talk about sports and little sad we can't talk to the Ralph because he just says I don't follow sports. But one thing I know he does. But one thing you do follow and we can talk about so quickly in the news. But I want to talk about the underlying fight because I know you you you do follow boxing. The Tyson fight was such a charade. But beyond that, I think the biggest,

one of the bigger media stories, one of the biggest media failures in a long time is Netflix promoting this for as long as they did and not being able to let their viewers watch it because they didn't have what it takes to stream this live event. No, I think you're right for netflix to have failed with the technology I think was as bad as the fight. I mean you know I'm from Brownsville section of Brooklyn like Mike

Tyson, yeah, so we shared that Mike. Of course the fight on his feet, I mean yeah, if you throw 2, 3, punches it would help. I just. I can't judge this but as the sport now because it wasn't that it was not a sport it was it was. Okay, we'll have a segment on boxing later, but yeah, we will. We'll talk. Okay, I guess we're not going to be able to talk about this.

No. Because as always, Mickey keeps interrupting me and it makes me sad. But I guess now's the time to get to the news. That's a joke. Okay, let's get to the news. Let's go to the news. I mean, Willie, you agree, right? About boxing?

Yes. No, but we'll talk about that later. I mean, I gotta say, you're talking to somebody. I grew up, and I'm sorry, you have prolonged this. It's people punching each other out. Just like when you said you didn't watch The Godfather, we had to respond to that. But you're talking about people that grew up watching Ollie, Friday Night Fights. Kidding, in a ring.

And Frasier. And punching each other out. Can we just talk? Yeah. Ollie and Frasier, Frasierzier and Foreman Foreman and Norton Ali you talk about it and CBS had those Friday night fights Ali against usually a bunch of losers, but then there was Jimmy Young that came after him and then there About this it was a may. Oh, you're talking to the wrong person

No, I am building his fortune on flight. You can do better. All right, okay, we can do better all right okay and do better and we are right now president-elect Donald Trump is reportedly making phone calls to senators pressing them to support his pick for Attorney General Axios spoke to two senators who said Trump called them about former congressman Matt Gaetz one of them being Republican Kevin Kramer of North Dakota. Meanwhile, the House Ethics Committee is set to meet tomorrow to discuss its report on the former congressman. The top Democrat on that panel, Congresswoman Susan Wilde of Pennsylvania, said the report

should be released to the Senate and to the public. An attorney for two women who say Gates paid them for sex several times sat down yesterday for an interview with NBC's Hallie Jackson. He detailed part of their testimony to ethics committee investigators about a party in Orlando back in 2017. One of the first things that happened when she got the party, she testified to the House that within minutes of arriving she was introduced to Matt Gaetz and they went

upstairs and had sexual intercourse on the bed, after which she went downstairs. At some point, she was walking outside to go to the pool area, and to the right, she witnessed Representative Gaetz having sex with her friend, who was 17 at the time. Did your client believe that Gaetz, at the time, knew that her friend was underage? Yeah, so the house was curious about that. She testified that her belief was that Representative Gates had no knowledge that she was under 18, that she was 17 years old at the time

he was having sex with her. They did testify, both of them, that they consented to the activities. They were also asked whether or not they were victims. And she broke down in tears. And she said it's a very complicated question. Did your clients make any assessments in their testimony about Mr. Gates's fitness or judgment to serve in office?

They were very careful about what they might express publicly. But one did say, I do not think a man like him should have that much power. Gates has long denied the allegations. The Justice Department also investigated Gates over sex trafficking allegations involving a 17-year-old girl. He has not been charged with any crime. So, this testimony, of course, happened, Willie, under oath, and the section 17-year-old woman paying to other women.

I think the testimony was, he said, sex under oath in front of the ethics committee. And regardless of what the speaker said, people in the committee say the information needs to get out. John Cornyn and other senators are saying, we got to see all the information. It's too bad. I I mean I was in the house I know what senators think of house members like they're not gonna listen to the speaker of the house They're gonna want to get it out and get they get the information for the American people but I just I just if

If I get just for one minute if everybody just give me a second here And I appreciate it because they don't usually get a chance to talk on the show, but I'm going to do it this now. First of all, I want to just say, Mieke and I went to an event last night, and it was wonderful. There were a lot of people that were sad. A lot of people came up to us hugging us, saying, tell us everything's going to be okay. Tell us we're so upset, we're so torn.

And I just, I said, I- It was the Roar Forward Summit. Reimagine the second half of life. Yeah. To talk about 50 over 50. Yeah. It was so good. It really was.

And I said, listen, we don't know how we're going to get forward. We're stumbling forward right now, trying to figure it out. And Rev, you know, 1 Corinthians, the love chapter, for now we see through a glass darkly but but later we will be able to see clearly be quoted it correctly and so we don't know right now but I just throw this open to the table and what I said was we're always we're always concerned, obviously, and everybody that wins acts like this election is the last election ever. First of all, I want to just let everybody know Donald Trump did extremely well in middle America.

He did. But I also want you to know this. We're a 50-50 nation. About one out of four Americans voted for Donald Trump, a little bit more. About one out of four Americans voted for Kamala Harris, a little bit less. And in the swing states, Wisconsin, Donald Trump won by less than one percentage point. Michigan, he won by about a percentage point. Pennsylvania, it went by about a percentage point. Pennsylvania, it went by about one and a half percentage

points. This is a 50-50 nation. And I had a sign in my congressional office that said, if you want to predict the future, shape the future. So be sad, be upset, mourn, and then get to work. All of us get to work, regardless of what side you're on or how you think we best get there.

We're not going to always see eye to eye, but we can get there together. But Rev, there's a great story that I think David Marin has told about Bill Clinton. He was running for governor, I think it was in 80, he lost. Young man, he had already been governor. It was supposed to be the end of his political career. The morning after the election when he lost, his staff members were looking out the window as they were packing up the boxes. And there was Bill Clinton on the street, shaking hands.

And one of them looked at the other and they said, poor guy, doesn't even know the election's over. And the other staffer said, oh, you don't understand. The other election may be over, but the next election has just begun. And Clinton was shaking hands, kept shaking hands, and he got elected governor in two years, two years after that, two years after that, two years after that, and became president of the United States. And I guess that's the message.

We don't have the answer. None of us right now, we're trying to figure out exactly what hit last week. But one thing we know is there's a lot of work to be done. And there's a lot of people that will be affected and impacted in the interim. Exactly. And I think that we can't miss the forest for the trees.

When we have a new president, and that's who Donald Trump is, regardless of my views of him, we've got to figure out how we have people not suffer more than they can suffer if we're not dealing with that. That's why when there were those, and there were not as many as I thought that said, why would you and me commit with Donald Trump? He's going to be the president.

If you can meet with him, meet with him. That, to me, is no different than when people said to me, why would Kamala Harris go talk to Brett Baer? So on one side, she can talk to Brett Baer, but on the other side, he shouldn't come on morning Joe. I don't think we've got an equal judgment here because I think all sides need to be talking to all sides. Now that's not my role.

Donald Trump called me after he won the first time. I wouldn't meet with him because I felt that it would be a photo op and he promoted wrongly even though we should be discussing issues and we have talked on the phone since then. But I know he's a promoter. If he had been born black, he'd have been Don King. That's what he does well. But I think that what we need to do is deal with the issues that's going to impact people. I would say, I hope in your conversations, we should ask Donald Trump. You talked about

black men would be with you. Where's the black man being nominated by you for your cabinet? Has anyone noticed there's no black that has been nominated on his cabinet? That needs to be raised. Rather than who's talking, let's deal with what we're talking about. Well, yeah, and I will say also,

I just wanna say thank you, first of all, to everybody who was so kind last night, but also thank you. Willie, yesterday I saw for the first time what a massive disconnect there was between social media and the real world because we were flooded with phone calls from people all day literally around the world. Very positive, very supportive, going understand what you do, etc. etc. But once in a while I would get a text or a call from oh man I hope you're doing okay and I

call him back and I go well Eddie Gladwitz one of them we go Eddie are you on Twitter and he goes I am I go I'm not so we've had a good day me could just had a wonderful event and it's fantastic we're we're gonna do that all of us are gonna do the best we can do and we're all working towards a better America. Take it day by day. Day by day. Day by day.

And again, you can, you can, you can predict the future by shaping the future. But the reason I wanted to talk about that one fourth of Americans voted for Donald Trump, about one fourth voted for Kamala Harris's. There's another election in two years. Now I don't care who wins and how big they win. We've seen time, but again, we talk about it. Americans go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with their picks. If Republicans, if Donald Trump, if Republican senators put in as an attorney general somebody that three women have testified, I believe, if I'm correct, he had sex with an underage

woman at a drug-fueled party. And what I read in the Wall Street Journal was he paid two other women for sex. If that is something that Republican senators and Donald Trump are okay with, there will be consequences at the voting booth two years from now. And, of course, we always say, oh, we won. Oh, we won, you know, oh, we can do whatever we want.

Really? Because that's what I heard a lot of Democrats saying after Barack Obama won. And two years later, the Tea Party came roaring into town. So I will say it again, this and other of these picks, Republicans would be smart to advise and consent. And Donald Trump would be smart to back off of them in two or three of these cases,

because there are elections two years from now and things just won't go well. I mean, think about in the case of Matt Gaetz, we're parsing whether the young woman alleged to have had sex with Matt Gaetz was 17 or 18. This is a sitting member of the House of Representatives in 2017. He'd just been sworn in. So does character count or not?

That's a question for Donald Trump. It's a question for Republicans. They've all long lectured about character. Put qualification to the side. That's a part of his story as well. And you can go down the list and ask those questions, and we will ask those questions. But to Rev's point, your point, to underline what you guys were saying yesterday, I wasn't at Mar-a-Lago. I've never been to Mar-a-Lago.

I've never been invited. I guess I should be offended by that. But nothing changes for me and I think for you guys either from before election day, which is you know how we have criticized Donald Trump. You know about his policies. You can see it in the people he's nominating. You'll see it in a minute when we talk about his plan for mass deportation. None of that changes for me. None of that changes for us in the way we will criticize that. He is the president of the United States. That's a fact of the matter.

He won very narrowly. I would point out that just yesterday, as more votes came into California, he has slipped under a 50% majority nationally. All of those swing states save for Arizona within the margin of error. The polling actually was right in those states. So when we were saying every day, this race is a tide, it was, it was time. It was, he swept the battleground states. True.

In that way it was overwhelming. He swept them, but within the margin of error, which again, that's how you win elections these days. But within the margin of error, which again, that's how you win elections these days. 2016 within the margin of error. 2020 within the margin of error. 2024 within the margin of error. We are a 50-50 nation. I guess the question is, again, side issue,

when are we gonna learn to work together? Yeah, and I mean, I'm deeply skeptical. It might be an understatement that he's going to suddenly be this bipartisan figure in our country given his history, given the nominations and the choices he's making right now. But we will cover him as we've been covering him. So let's get back to those nominations with NBC News correspondent Dasha Burns and political reporter for Axios, Hans Nichols.

He also is the author of the Axios Hill Leaders newsletter. Good morning to you both, Hans. Let's go to you going back to that reporting about some of the pressure that Donald Trump is reported to be applying personally to senators about Matt Gaetz. This does seem like the one place, hopefully there are others, but one place where Donald Trump might lose a fight in the Senate. Is it your sense that these senators who have said Donald Trump has a mandate

will cross him at least on Matt Gaetz? That's the open question, and I think, you know, all of us reporters, it's incumbent upon us to kind of get a sense of just how intense this battle is. It's an institutional battle between the Senate and the presidency, and the battle is joined. I mean, when the President of the United States starts personally calling senators,

really leaning on them, there's no way out of that sort of showdown. And there's a lot that's interesting about this. Number one, it's interesting that Trump didn't apparently really call any senators before he made these nominations, right? He's making these calls after he's already sent them. So not a whole lot of advising and the advice and consent part. And two, we've got to see what the senators actually say when they get pressed and pushed by Donald Trump.

We talked to Senator Kramer. He said Trump's very persuasive. But, you know, Joe, everyone at the table up there knows, senators don't like being told what to do. They like their prerogatives. And they want to see the report. They want to see the contents of that ethics report. And they say they want to give Gates a fair hearing,

but they want to know what's actually in there. And it's pretty clear whether or not it's the entire report or just the contents of the report that a lot of details are going to come out. And then it's just up to the senators. Are they willing to defy the president that just handed them the majority? Well, again, I think in most cases, they probably aren't going to want to the senators. Are they willing to defy the president that just handed them the majority? Well, again, I think in most cases,

they probably aren't gonna wanna do that. At the same time, there are, Willie, a lot of senators who are up, maybe up two years from now. There are also people like Mitch McConnell, who will probably never run again. There's Susan Collins. There's Lisa Murkowski. You've already said, I mean, they're just, you know,

it's gonna be, I, we can't ever be shocked. Let me just say, I just might get close to being shocked if those two women, Mitch McConnell and other Republicans, fall in line behind a congressman who, as the testimony said, had sex with a 17-year-old woman, statutory rape, had two other women who were there who also testified under oath. They all testified under oath. And then he quit two days before the report was going to come out to stop the report from coming out.

Now, I've been around a lot of senators. I know a lot of senators. They don't want to give up their advice and consent. And they've also been around long enough to know. This stuff blows back. They were there when Coral Grove in 2004 said, permanent Republican majority, Nancy Pelosi speaker two years later. They were there when Barack Obama's people said, permanent Obama majority, two years later. They saw what happened. So yeah, they've been through this.

They've been to this rodeo and they understand you really can't select a guy that has had testimony against him that he had sex with an underage girl who was a junior in high school at drug-fueled parties and defend that on the campaign trail in two years from now because just like that Bill Clinton story, centers that are up in two years, you know what they're doing right now? They're thinking about that election. How do I win? That's how they think. So, yeah, I don't know how they get

from here to there, regardless of what the incoming president might say. And the incoming majority leader, John Thune, is an honorable guy, a decent guy, a good leader. Is he going to stand by? Is he going to put his name on Matt Gaetz? Is he going to put a vote to Matt Gaetz? We will find out very soon. So Dasha Burns, you're covering all this as well. Matt Gaetz is just one of the names that have caused outrage, by the way, not just among

Democrats but among some Republicans. Pete Hegseth at Defense as well. Obviously Bobby Kennedy for Health and Human Services and Tulsi Gabbard as DNI. What is your sense in Washington, what is your sense on Capitol Hill of the battles Republicans may choose to fight with Donald Trump here? Is it a case of we've got to vote down Matt Gaetz, but we'll give you Tulsi Gabbard in exchange?

Look, you know, President-elect Trump, he does not want to give an inch here. And there are a couple of agencies in particular, really, that have been sort of a thorn in his side for a long time now. You talk about DOD, that's a place where in his first administration, he felt like he did not have the right people in place. He wasn't happy with how the military was run with who was running the military that would not execute his orders as he wanted them to mostly because they wanted to follow the law and follow precedent. Enter Pete Hegseth, who does not have the standard qualifications for that role and who also has been accused of sexual assault. Of course,

he denies those allegations. So that's an important pick for Mr. Trump because of the loyalty that he feels he acceptable have and the kinds of, uh, how he will execute what he wants. And when it comes to Matt Gates, the DOJ is an agency that he has railed against at every rally that I've been to. And he has campaigned on the message of weaponization of the justice system. Matt Gaetz was one of the biggest proponents of that message. He amplified that message.

He talked about bringing these agencies like the DOJ, the FBI, quote unquote, to heal or dismantling them altogether. So for a lot of these picks, he is specifically choosing people who are in opposition to the very agencies that they are being tasked with overseeing. And every time lately he's had the choice between someone more traditional or someone more cut from the maga mold who would kind of shake up or potentially blow up an agency. That's the direction that he's gone.

Willie. All right. NBC's Josh Burns and political reporter for Axis Hans Nichols. Thank you both. Thanks guys. You know, it is interesting though, not, not every single one. Mike, of course, Suzy Wiles, Marco Rubio, Ratcliffe, who was the first time through where people didn't want. But now they're going, OK, well, we're not perfect, but we're OK with that.

But then there were there were these other other selections the last week, specifically Gates, Gavrits, RFK Junior and Hegseth Hegseth that obviously have caused a great deal of concern. And you know, I think from what we're hearing from Republican senators, they understand Donald Trump got elected. Donald Trump, if he has a theory about, you know, if he wants to be aggressive and try to go against what what he calls the weaponization of the Justice Department, you got elected talking about that. The question is who is the person that can sit in that

position? An attorney general does so much more for the president, for the country, than just look at things like this. I mean, it seems to me you would want a spokesperson to be, you know, loud, but you actually would want a lawyer in there who knew what they were doing that could carry out whatever a president wanted to do. And obviously, even if you get past all the ethics, Matt Gaetz is just clearly not qualified to be attorney general of the United States, and that's what Republican senators are saying. That's what the Wall Street Journal editorial page is saying. Joe, there were two people here in addition to Matt Gaetz, the documented unqualified

candidate for attorney general, Pete Hegseth, for secretary of defense. So if you're a United States senator, you have a six-year term. You're isolated. You're not like the House. You have time to think about these things. You have time to be serious about these appointments. So Gene, my question to you off of that setup is the nature of these two appointments and these two critical agencies, Justice and

the Department of Defense, going forward, what do you hear in that town where you've lived almost your entire adult life and worked almost your entire adult life covering that town? These are really shocking appointments at their root. And if you're a United States senator, you don't want to be casting an A vote for a guy who is shocking in terms of incompetence. Well, you don't want to do that, but the question is, what will they actually do? I mean, these appointments, all four of these appointments to me seem to be about revenge,

these four controversial appointments. You know, Donald Trump wants his revenge against the Justice Department and the FBI. And Matt Gaetz is the one who give him that. And without the niceties of constitutional law and precedent and decades of practice, I think he sees Hegseth as the same, you know, Hegseth will give him his parade down Constitution Avenue, remember the one he wanted with tanks and missiles that he couldn't get out of the generals the first time.

I'm sure Pete Hegseth would give that to him. This is what Donald Trump said he would do. He said back in March of 2023, he said, I am your retribution. And I think this is about his retribution against parts of the government that he felt wronged him or disobeyed him or didn't bend to his will. And so I think that's what it's about. And you know, no votes in the Senate, it is indeed possible that the Senate will just can't get past Matt Gaetz. But I count how many sure no votes do I count? I think Lisa Murkowski, I think

Mitch McConnell probably, I think Susan Collins probably. Is there another definite no vote in the Senate right now? It's unclear. Let's see what more comes out and just how sorted the details of this encounter are, or these encounters are. But I do not rule out the possibility that he gets confirmed. I mean, if it's 50-50 and JD Vance gets to break the tie, and he's calling senators and leaning on them in the way that he apparently is. I wish I could rule it out because Matt Gaetz should never in any universe be attorney general in the United States. But I don't think it's completely out of the question that he is.

No. We know how congressional Republicans have responded to pressure from Donald Trump historically. John, it's fascinating to listen for the have responded to pressure from Donald Trump historically. John, it's fascinating to listen for the last decade, Republicans and Donald Trump leading it, talking about the weaponization of certain departments to be used against him, perceived weaponization for things like exercising a lawful search warrant at Mar-a-Lago when you store classified documents in your bathroom that was framed as weaponization. But here we have people talking explicitly about using those departments as weapons against

its critics as retribution, whether it's the FBI or the Justice Department or even DNI. They're just saying openly, we're here to get back at the people who came at Donald Trump. Add to the FCC to that, below the radar nomination, but that's in the same category. And this is what Donald Trump has told us, that he is going to be retribution. He does want revenge against the deep state that he feels like undermined him in his first term and in his post-presidency.

And people that I've talked to in his orbit are like, the motivation here is much to destroy these agencies as it is to lead them. Now, in terms of whether these nominations get through, I mean, Republicans said there are a lot of Republican senators who are privately saying they won't vote from that gates there's difference though between

saying that privately and doing it publicly defying Donald Trump we know they voted for John Thune. Yeah, didn't want well that was done on a secret ballot. This will not be a secret ballot there is a sense so the gates will be the hardest one to confirm the real questions about Hank Seth as well, particularly with some legal issues for him. Robert of Cajun year seems to be sailing through which is sort of hard to fathom some of the stuff that he is.

I have it's almost incomprehensible that he's going to have his hands on the entire health and human services department almost in Florida, I we're going to get we can get fluoride out of the water just get your kids vaccinated before Christmas. Just need to force this through sure recess appointments, I mean I think there's going to be a lot of resistance in the Senate for that the Trump camp they're simply not really about

OK we've got a lot ahead just real quick. President elect Trump has also chosen. Sean Duffy former congressman and Fox business host as his secretary transportation president Biden's making his final appearance at the G20 summit in Brazil and also a suspect in New York City is in police custody after a stabbing spree that left three people dead. So we'll have more on that throughout the show. Also still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll dig into President-elect Trump's plan to use the military to conduct mass deportations and the potentially wide-ranging impacts. Plus, dozens of pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong have been sentenced to prison. We'll go live to Beijing for the latest on a sweeping national security trial.

We'll be back in 90 seconds. back in 90 seconds. A beautiful shopper shot. The sounds of tears from here. I think you back to 1980. It's of love. There's a long playlist for you know, here's I heard a stat about them one time that everybody is on the edge of their seat. What is the stat you heard from Casey Case and Monteers for Fears back in 1987? And it's something like one out of every three records they sold back when records were sold, Southern California.

Really? They were just, and I never knew that because I mean, aren't they from? They're British. They're in England. Yeah. Yeah. But man, Southern California, man. They're good and they hold up.

Some of the 80s music didn't hold. I'm afraid they're in this. Tears for Fears held. Yeah. Yeah. They're good. Yeah. No doubt about it.

So I, you know. All right. So, Ralph. That was a good fact. Ralph, that is a good fact. Now you know. It's a good fact. Thank you.

And now, when is NBC going to let me do going to set let me do tears for fears like in top 40 Casey case and stuff and they go the more you know. Mm hmm. Yeah. The rainbow exactly. We get more you know you're so sorry if we were just talking at

break. We only had like a 30 second break. Really? Well let's talk. You came on this set three weeks ago and you said that when you went to Detroit, they weren't excited about voting for Kamala Harris.

And you, we were very surprised. But we also heard from a lot of people that were knocking for doors in Pennsylvania, that every door they knocked on, people said they were going to be voting for Donald Trump. And I guess the question is, why were people in Detroit so motivated to vote for Joe Biden in 2020 and not to vote for Kamala Harris in 2024? I think that people felt, in many ways, deflated. I think the misinformation campaign that got through to a lot of them, I think that in many cases,

people had given up. And that's one of the reasons civil rights groups and others like mine, National Action Network, went out saying, get out the vote. Kamala Harris was a great candidate. She did well. She's the third biggest vote getter in presidential election history.

There was nothing wrong with her. And I think that as you talk about senators having to think down the road, we have got to think across the board how we make sure you energize voters and make voters understand what they're doing. One of the reasons on January 20th, while Trump is being inaugurated, is Martin Luther King Day.

We've called for a rally on the other side of Washington. We're not protesting the inauguration. But we're saying we've got to recharge the dream. It is Martin Luther King's federal holiday that day. We have got to give people the reason to be engaged that meets them, rather than, as I always say to you on the show, rather than these ivory tower ideas that means nothing to people that have to go and buy groceries every day or try and afford. I say you got to bring it back to them.

And that's a great point. I mean, Eddie Glowd last time was talking to him. He's going to be on the show later this week. But he was saying, you know, we said, hey, a lot of people on Twitter saying stuff. I go, OK, well, that's fine. He goes, and I guess they're saying, you know, we said, hey, a lot of people on Twitter saying stuff. I go, OK, well, that's fine. He goes, and I guess they're saying, well, if Donald Trump is so bad for so many years,

like, why is he OK now? And I said, it's not, it's not, but like we said in our statement yesterday, you know, we were very concerned by January 6th, the trials, by everything else, by the violent rhetoric, the fascist sounding rhetoric. And we said that. But what we learned after the election was 75 million people, the 75 million people, they were more interested in the cost of gas, the cost of groceries, and the Democratic Party that they thought had gotten too extreme on a lot of issues.

And I'm interested in getting to the news. Okay. So time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines. Wait till the second one. That's why I thought you'd be interested. Lawyers for Sean Diddy Combs want a new court hearing after authorities seized materials from his jail cell. The assurances say prosecutors are using documents to keep Combs behind bars until his May trial. Prosecutors accuse the rapper of orchestrating a social media campaign aimed at influencing the jury pool. Combs denies that and the allegations of sex trafficking and racketeering.

Listen to this. New research shows one in five adults regularly get their news from influencers on social media. The number is even higher among younger Americans with almost 40% under the age of 30 getting their news from those sources. According to the Pew Research Center, the social media site X remains the most widely accessed platform, followed by Instagram and YouTube. I mean, that comes obviously for political news.

And Mike, that's the challenge. You grew up in a newsroom like Jean grew up in a newsroom. I mean, that's a lot of challenge. That's a challenge for a lot of mainstream media sources is do they make themselves relevant again to hear 20% of adults who actually get influencers on social media? Maybe somebody who makes baskets, and while they're making baskets, they look up and say, vote for candidate X. I don't know how they make themselves, we make ourselves relevant again,

because we can't compete with 20 second snippets on an iPhone walking up the street, getting your entire news digest of the day in less than a minute on your phone as you're walking in the crowd with coffee in one hand and your phone in the other. I don't know how we catch up to that. Yeah, so Gene Robinson, do you agree with Mike?

Because I find this hard to believe believe that younger voters would be more interested in getting an entertaining 20-second news snippet than watching a cable news show for four hours from 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. in the morning. Come on! This seems like an easy choice to us here. What is wrong with these people? Exactly. Yeah. I mean, look, if I knew the answer, you know, I would implement it immediately, right? And reverse this. But we have to compete.

I mean, the answer is we don't know how to compete with these social media basket making influencers or whatever, but we have to. And so we've got to figure out ways to do it. And maybe we make our own 20-second snippets and we meet viewers where they are. We meet news consumers where they are because they're not here. And that's the problem. Yeah, you know, Gene just said if I knew how, I thought he was going to say I'd start my own newspaper.

It reminds me of The Beatles when they landed in JFK. Somebody asked John Lennon, why are you so popular? He goes, if we knew we'd quit and like be managers and start new bands or something like that. But yeah, that's the big question. How do you compete with, as Mike said, 20 second snippets when somebody's going in to get their coffee? Honestly, given my own experience with teenagers

and young people, that number sounds low to me. There are young people under 30, let's say, are not sitting and watching a full television show is just not happening at all anywhere for any of them so they're getting here and Donald Trump and his campaign did a good job in the campaign of finding that audience with snippets with moments you create moments during his campaign, I'm saying they're good moments, but they

presented well in a short tiktok clip people said oh he speaks truth. Oh, he's kind of funny. Oh, they sort of, he built an affinity with young voters. And we saw that show up in the polls a little bit. Let's turn overseas. Dozens of former politicians and activists were sent to prison today in Hong Kong. The mass trial targeted legal scholars, opposition strategists, and leading voices

in the pro-democracy movement. China imposed crushing national security laws on Hong Kong in 2020. as opposition strategists and leading voices in the pro-democracy movement. China imposed crushing national security laws on Hong Kong in 2020 following months of wide-scale demonstrations against Chinese rule. Crackdown has been called a, quote, knockout blow to hopes for democracy in Hong Kong. Joining us now live from Beijing, NBC News international correspondent Janice Mackey Fair. Janice, what more can you tell us about this?

Well, Willie, this trial is seen as the most significant sign of Beijing tightening its control of Hong Kong. Dozens of pro-democracy activists facing conspiracy charges under this national security law that was imposed in 2020. All the two of the 47 lawmakers and politicians who were arrested back in 2021 were convicted today and the crime, according to authorities, was holding or taking part in an unofficial primary election. Among them was Benny Tai, a law professor.

He got 10 years, 20 people were given terms of five to eight years. Others including Joshua Wong, a well-known activist, were jailed for over 4 years. Wong actually pleaded guilty so he could avoid a life sentence. The law was Beijing's response to those protests in Hong Kong in 2019. The government here saying it was necessary to stop challenges to China's sovereignty. It's now made certain slogans a crime and expressing ideas about politics is dangerous. Censorship and digital surveillance have also been stepped up. When I last spoke to Joshua Wong after the law came into effect, he said, well, it doesn't mean we give up and stop.

We're never going to stop fighting. But the law and then the arrests and now this trial have worked to all but end the pro-democracy movement or it's at least pushed it well into the shadows. Critics are saying it's the end of the rule of law in Hong Kong. And tomorrow, Jimmy Lai, the publisher, will take the stand at his trial for the first time in four years. He's been in solitary confinement.

He's facing charges of collusion and sedition that are widely seen as politically motivated. And there have been international calls to have Lai, who's now 76 years old, to be released immediately. Willie? So, hey, Janice, Joe here. I saw a chart this morning from the New York Times that was just shocking to me. And it talked about carbon emissions. And of course, we, the United States, the EU have been fighting, I think, fairly hard. And if you look at the charts, we're pretty effectively in bringing down CO2 admissions over the

past 10 years. I mean, we are on a downward slope. We certainly hope we continue on that downward slope. There are headwinds, obviously, with some nominations. But then you look at the line from China, and this is again, they're soaring emissions are just exploding. And it makes it hard to see how in the world we can ever come to any international agreements without China taking part in it. I'm just curious, is there a view from inside of China that pollution, which has been just a terrible problem for the past 20, 25 years there, that at some point they will curb those

emissions and start being a bit more concerned not just about their environment but about their health. Well this this notion of historical responsibility is a major point of contention in in climate politics. The US has been burning coal and oil for a lot longer but China has been catching up over the last 30 years building coal-fired plants with the booming economy. And last year, China passed Europe for the first time as the second largest historical emitter.

Now, China, for its part, has said that the emissions are going to peak this decade and then they're going to fall. And they are doing a lot in terms of wind and solar power. But it's all the emissions they burn to get to this place that are going to see it catch up to the U.S. And because of that, countries like the U.S. are saying that China has to pay. They have to pay more for developing countries to make this transition to better energy sources. China said, look, we've pledged the money. But the big debate at COP 29 right now is that China isn't coming through with transparency. And with President-elect Trump,

I believe to be slashing green energy initiatives and going full tilt on drill, baby drill, there is the sense that a lot of this global leadership on climate and climate policies is going to fall to China. And so there's going to be increased onus and expectations of China to follow through in all respects. All right. NBC's Janice Mackey-Frayer live from Beijing. Thank you very much for your reporting this morning. And coming up, the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt, will join us to discuss the recent

anti-Semitic attacks in Amsterdam and why he says the violence is a dire warning for Jews in America. Morning Joe will be right back. The Anti-Defamation League held its landmark 30th annual In Concert Against Hate event at the Kennedy Center last night. The benefit first began as a special event marking the 50th anniversary of the end of the Holocaust. And now it celebrates those everyday heroes who take action in the face of bigotry.

The star-studded event was emceed by award-winning actor Ben Stiller and included performances from world-class musicians, including Grammy Award winner Sia, also in attendance Holocaust survivor Rosette Goldstein. Joining us now, the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt. It's great to have you on the show. There are so many different things to talk about. Willie, I'll have you start off. All right. So, Jonathan, put in context that night, last night, star-studded, glossy event, but deadly serious issues at the center of this that we've been talking about with you for a long time now and more intensely let's say in the last year, year and a half or so.

What was front and center last night and what should people be thinking about moving forward here? Well, last night was really electric. You had a sold out Kennedy Center, Ben Stoesie, MC as we saw and honoring these heroes. And I think this was a reminder that people can push back against prejudice if they choose. We honor Dr. Maynaz Afridi who is a Muslim professor at Manhattan College who has taught her Muslim and Jewish students how to work together as they memorialize the Holocaust. We celebrated Dr. Charles

Chavez who's a professor at George Mason University who's done work on racial healing and of course we honored Scooter Braun, the Grammy award winning producer who brought the Nova exhibit here to the United States. And Scooter was amazing, his speech was extraordinary and so look last night was one of these amazing things that can happen sometimes in Washington DC where you get beyond the rhetoric and beyond all the noise and folks come together for a bigger purpose.

And this bigger purpose was fighting hate. We can do it if we dig deep and try. And Jonathan, this comes against the backdrop of what's happening in Europe right now. You've got a new piece in USA Today titled, Anti-Semitic Attacks in Europe are a Dire Warning to Jews in the US. We may be next. In it, you chronicle your recent trip to Europe amid a string of antisemitic violence there, writing, "'Raging antisemitism' in Europe this month has been whitewashed with ridiculous labels like hooliganism and violence tied to a soccer game.

Let's put an end to the gaslighting." Jonathan continues, Just hours after the attack, I traveled to Amsterdam. I wanted to hear directly from the Jewish community and political leaders, and what I heard was nothing short of an emergency. So Jonathan, if you could elaborate on those conversations, what did you hear? It was astonishing. So I flew out to Amsterdam literally right after I heard about the attacks.

I met with the Jewish community leadership. I met with elected officials. I met with the prime minister. And what I heard again and again was what happened that Thursday night was like nothing they'd seen in generations. Literally Willie, after the soccer game there were dozens and dozens of coordinated attacks against Jewish people all over the city. So literally coordinated by cab drivers who used WhatsApp and

Telegram, they staged a Jew hunt is the term that they used. And with pipes, with knives, with clubs, they beat and assaulted individuals whose only crime was, you know, they were Jewish. And this didn't, you know, barely raise an eyebrow here in America, but this is what globalizing the Intifada looks like. This is where violent rhetoric leads you.

And I went from Amsterdam to Berlin, from Berlin to Brussels, from Brussels to Paris and in all these places, meeting with elected leaders, with community members. The level of fear is frightening. And Willie, this can happen here when our leaders allow violent rhetoric to go kind of crazy, people end up doing crazy things. You know, Reverend Al, I have watched you and Jonathan Greenblatt over the past several years bring your organizations together and speak out against hatred, speak out against

anti-Semitism, speak out against racism. We've seen it here in America. I certainly saw you guys, especially after the tragedy in Pittsburgh. But this is exactly what you and Jonathan have been warning us about over the past several years on your show and when Jonathan comes on and you all work together. No doubt about it. And I think that it is going to be needed now more than ever. Amsterdam shows us that. And Jonathan, thank you for inviting me last night. I just couldn't get to Washington.

But let me ask you this. As we look at the new administration coming in, I spoke in White Plains at a synagogue Friday night, and there are a lot of people concerned. They talked about the hate summit that you and I and others put together with Biden and Kamala Harris at the White House. Where do we go with this new administration? Both you and I are concerned for different aspects. Certainly I've said I'm against what Netanyahu's done, but we've got to stand up and deal with

the anti-Semitism. And what happened October 7th cannot in any way be tolerated, as well as what's going on, in my opinion, with the innocent people in Gaza. How do we deal with the hate, though, that's coming this way? And groups like ADL and others, National Action Network and others, deal with this. We see the text messages to blacks

right after the election. We see a rise in anti-semitism from Europe headed this way. How do we keep this? Coalition against hate together. Well, look, I'm so glad you asked Revan. I think there are a few things So number one we've got to stop the gas lighting They had people in Amsterdam who said that the Jews brought this on themselves because some of them made mean chance the night before. There is no excuse for intolerance and there is no rationalization for violence. So that's number one.

I think number two, we need to realize that we have so much more in common than things that keep us apart. And so politicians, frankly on both sides, will try to light a fire. They will try to divide us. We've got to resist that rev. Jews and blacks, Asian Americans, Hispanics, men, women, gay, straight, all of us need to come together to build the America we want to see. That's what you and I have got to do.

That's what our communities and the country's got to do in the years ahead. All right, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt. Thank you. Thank you so much. And Jonathan, thank you so much for your kind note. We greatly appreciate it. So sweet. Thank you. Thank you. Jeanne Robinson, you just, you look at the images out of Amsterdam Mm-hmm and and you hear them on so you hear about people on social media talking about

Jew hunts and you you really you just you just wonder where that Moral arc of history is actually bending right now because when you look at of history is actually bending right now because when you look at those attacks, those anti-Semitic attacks that seem to have overtaken Amsterdam, you just have to ask, where are we going? Where are we going? I mean, it is shocking to me to see in Amsterdam and in New York and everything, and other places, Jews being attacked for being Jews. It is one thing to have a focus on Israeli government policy, the policy of the current Israeli government and what it's doing in Gaza, and you can certainly oppose that.

But, you know, random Jews being attacked for being Jewish is just, it's appalling and something I never thought I would see. Yet, at the same time, three or four times a week, and I'm being conservative, I get emails or whatever from, you know, people who are critical of my political points of view who just use the n-word. And, you know, and for me and others, they sometimes they include Reverend Al as well, just to throw that in. This has increased, and this atmosphere is,

it's shocking, it's something I haven't quite seen since I was a kid in South Carolina, and we have gone backwards, and we need to turn this around. I mean, we need to turn this around I mean we need to turn this around this is this is getting getting bad I mean I would tell you I was raised in Georgia in Mississippi in northwest Florida I went to school in Alabama I was raised in the deep south and I was raised in the deep south at a time when I will say at least in middle class America, the racist insults wasn't said in polite society, wasn't said in school, wasn't

said for, I'm just telling you where I was, in the middle class communities that I was in. And I will tell you now, I'm hearing from my children it's changed that it's actually gotten worse than it was when I went to high school decades ago and you just say it's not supposed to be this way no but it is this way it is and it's fright it is it is frightening so