Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/25/24

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Trump completes core Cabinet picks, names top officials

She is, in terms of the intelligence community, very unqualified. Plus, she is potentially compromised and could be and has—is there questions about whether or not she is now a Russian asset? Do you believe that she could be a Russian asset? I think that she is someone who is wholly backing and supportive of Putin, and I worry that she will not have America's best interest at heart. That's Democratic and combat veteran, Democratic-Centered Combat Veteran Tammy Duckworth obviously expressing some concerns about Tulsi Gabbard. There was fierce pushback on that and questions of whether there was evidence of it or not. Regardless, there are still a couple of

picks as we're moving in here. A lot of picks this weekend. Something for everybody, something for everybody to complain about, or something for everybody to be happy with, whatever you want to put it. Lot of picks this week, but you look at Tulsi Gabbard, you look at the DOD pick, those right now from what we're hearing are the two that people are the most concerned about that are out there Yeah, we're gonna go through all the the picks and and hear what some key Republicans are saying as well also ahead We'll have an update on the Ukraine war now the incoming Trump administration is

Impacting the conflicts right now plus it wasn't quite Barbunheimer, but it still a really good weekend at the box office. We'll have more about the wicked and gladiator to battle. What would you call that? Wicked tater or something. I don't know. Yeah.

I don't know. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. They're doing something with it. We just don't know what it is. Yeah, exactly. But the word is this Monday morning, November 25th, with us we have the host of Wait Too Early, White House Fair Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire.

President of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton is with us. President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haas is here. He's the author of the weekly newsletter, Home and Away, available on Substack. NBC News correspondent Vaughn Hilliard here with us on the set, and co-founder and CEO of Axios, Jim Van de Huy joins us this morning, also author and NBC News presidential historian Michael Beschloss. Great group. So I've known Jim Van de Huy for a quarter century now, and Jim will tell you.

He's a mild guy. They said it then. He's a nice guy. As they say now, if you ask about Joe, what do the kids on the street say? The kids on the street say Joe's a uniter, not a divider. Therefore, I'm not going to talk about the New York Giants in front of Richard Haas. I will not do it. I refuse to do it. We also, of course, will not talk about Alabama until we talk about it way too much. Alabama humiliated. Fine.

But I want to talk about the most important football game of the weekend. Nay, perhaps, maybe of the past decade. It happened this weekend. Prospect Park. The Super Bowl of flag football and take it to our prospect Park flag football. Yeah, the ball correspondent Jonathan O'Meara he's a crowd we could not get to the cut we were trying to come out. We're running out of room to hang championship

banners. It's a little mirror. Yes, my oldest Hall of Champions like John Wooden he had his room to nothing compared to nothing at all prospect Park muddy cold wind whipped smoke in the air from the brush fire lastly. But my my oldest his team did in fact defend their flag football championship in a 13 to 6 rock fight a day after my youngest also went back to back so we have to champion to champion this year and this weekend this House it was and I as you imagine I'm pacing the sidelines a nervous wreck all time I just couldn't even watch.

Yeah, both teams pulled out the end they're playing they are playing the universe of Alabama and Alabama a 7 point underdog and one underdog I never saw. They will beat Alabama. So what's up with the Giants, man? What's up with the Giants? Where do you start? Massive mistake in the quarterbacking

over the last five years, investing way too much in Daniel Jones, no backups for him. They got rid of Saquon Barkley, who had a career game last night for the, just watching a gifted player at the top of his game was actually something else. See if you're making it. Look at Baker go. Playing one of the great one of the best safeties in football. General manager and the

coach has lost control of the team. The Giants are done. Stick a fork in them they're done. They need to be broken up and started over. Why don't you hire all of Alabama's coaching staff? Now listen, here's the problem. They haven't figured out the forward pass yet, but other than that, they will do you proud. All right, can we do the news? That was the news. That kind of was the news for a lot of people.

So, Prospect Park Packers, we'll talk to Jim Van Der Hei about the Green Bay Packers soon. OK. I look forward to talking to Jim Van Der Hei about what he's been doing lately, which I think is amazing, including a speech, a fiery speech. He was mad. Yes. President-elect Donald Trump has filled out his core cabinet positions, as well as several other top spots in his administration.

Trump has chosen Scott Bessent as Treasury Secretary. He's a Wall Street billionaire who's an advocate for deficit reduction and deregulation. He has also supported extending Trump's 2017 tax cuts. Trump named... See, now there's a rub. We got a $36 trillion national debt. And if you extend those tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, that's only going to cause the deficit to spike. So again, there's a challenge there.

They're going to have to figure out if he really, if he holds both of those as being important, that's going to be a huge challenge. Well, I don't think he can get there with a $36 trillion debt, but we'll see. Also Trump named Brooke Rollins to lead the Department of Agriculture. Rollins is a conservative lawyer who served as domestic policy chief during Trump's first term. After leaving the White House, she became president and CEO of the America First Policy Institute, a group that helped lay the groundwork for a second Trump administration.

Former pro football player Scott Turner is Trump's pick for HUD secretary. Turner ran the White House Opportunity and Revitalization Council during Trump's first term. He also is involved with the American First Policy Institute. Trump's choice for labor secretary is Republican Congresswoman Lori Chavez, Deremer of Oregon. She's a staunch union ally and one of only a few House Republicans to support major pro-union legislation. The president-elect also named Russell Voigt,

who was co-author of the Project 2025 to lead the Office of Management and Budget. It's a role he held during Trump's first term, but also advocated for the president to have greater control over government agencies such as the FCC and the Securities and Exchange Commission. Trump selected former Republican Congressman Dave Weldon of Florida to lead the CDC. Weldon is a medical doctor who has been critical of the agency and its vaccination program. He has also pushed a long debunked claim that a preservative used in some vaccines is linked to autism. We have a lot to

talk about it here. First of all, I went to Congress with Dave, known Dave for a long time. First of all, I went to Congress with Dave, known Dave for a long time. But I want to talk first of all, and then we're going to talk about, like, this is not an ideologically pure cabinet by any stretch of the imagination. Michael Beschloss yesterday told The Times, one of the more ideologically, if you want to call it diverse and consistent, whatever you want to call it, Vaughn, we're going to let somebody much smarter than me figure out the best way to describe it. I want to talk, though, about one pick that conservatives are really angry about, and that is the labor secretary pick.

First of all, why are they angry? Secondly, why did he select somebody that the base would be so upset about? Was it like a payback to the Teamsters? What was it? I think that's a good question because during the campaign, he went up to Michigan and he campaigned this idea of pro, not necessarily union, but pro-worker. And this is where Democrats had a field day. They said, well, he's not actually at union shops.

Fast forward. And suddenly he's picking a labor secretary from the Pacific Northwest, the former Congresswoman, who has been much more defensive of labor unions, teachers unions, somebody who turned a lot of heads. Even after he did very well with union voters. Correct, absolutely. And now this isn't a front.

Again, this is the reposturing of today's Republican Party that Donald Trump can face the criticism from some on the right. But it's his party now, and this Labor secretary, there's no reason to believe that she's not going to pass. Yeah. With Democratic support. And Michael Beschloss, that's the thing. And the New York Times in the article where they quoted you just basically said, hey, this is not a conservative Republican Party. This is not a moderate Republican Party. This is Donald Trump's Republican Party. It is

what he says it is. And you were quoted in there talking about how these picks, you cannot line them up ideologically. Talk about it. Well, they're not robots you know everything Donald Trump led us to believe during the campaign was that he wanted to be a strong president and a successful president and a lot of that rhetoric suggested that he would have almost you know identical robots in the cabinet and among his aides but if you look at history you know what is the lesson of history the lesson of history is strong and successful presidents, almost every single one, they have people in their entourage cabinet and in their White House who argue with one another. Do that

in front of the president. Tell him what he doesn't want to hear. And the essential quality here is a president who listens to all that. Classic example in history was George Washington, who you would think did not need any advice at all. His secretary of the Treasury was Hamilton. Secretary of State was Jefferson. They argued with each other all the time about things like the size of government, how you finance it.

George Washington benefited. In modern times, you know, you know this case particularly, Joe. Under Ronald Reagan, George Shultz and Cap Weinberger argued about, is Gorbachev serious? What should we do about the Cold War? Should we increase defense spending or lower it? Reagan hated the conflict, but he learned from it. It made him a stronger president.

And Jim Van de Huy Axios wrote a similar, Reagan hated the conflict, but he learned from it. It made him a stronger president. And Jim Van de Huy Axios wrote a similar, you and Mike Allen wrote a similar article this past weekend talking about how it is hard to see a through line with a lot of these picks, some of them very, very right wing. The labor secretary, left of center, and most conservatives would say very left wing, then you've got RFK Jr. that is just all over the place ideologically, and several other picks that are, again, just sort of random and all over the place. Because it's a very different Republican party.

It's not a conservative party anymore. It is, as you said, the Donald Trump party. He sees a real, I think, opportunity to continue to grow the party. A big part of that is working class voters, whether or not he agrees with everybody on the specifics of the union debate. He went with somebody who traditional conservatives would hate. This person would never make it into a George W. Bush cabinet per se, but under a Trump world, they will.

And he doesn't care if people don't like any of these picks. He doesn't care if you don't like their personality, their background. I think he, unlike most people, enjoys conflict. In fact, I think he often incites conflict. He loves it to play out in front of him so he can ultimately be the decider. It keeps him being unpredictable, which he likes. And he thinks that gives him a stronger governing hand. And so there'll be all kinds of conflict. There will be both like publicly and privately. That is kind of the nature of the Trump operation.

All right, Jonathan. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's right. First of all, Trump in his first term really almost enjoyed the fight around him at the Oval Office. He'd bring in aides around the desk and have them pit one against each other. Now some of that was for simply West Wing jockeying who was up who was down, but he did that's what he would make a decision from. He'd hear people and then decide. Often the last voice he heard would be the one that would carry the day. But here with the union pick this is him trying to remake the party. This is him trying to bring in more of those working class voters, union voters. He spent a lot of time courting that vote in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,

other places this time around and was able to have not just the benefit of union votes, but a couple of major unions did not offer endorsements, which was seen as a tacit victory for him at the time. This is sort of paying off here. And we have seen some extreme right wing picks and other very conventional once his choice for treasurer secretary you point out that the inconsistency with the debt perhaps but most felt like well that's a couple. But make no mistake every banker every person on all

street that we talked to over the past couple weeks said this guy will calm the market so yeah. No, I said what I said only because I'm obsessed with deficits and the debt and that's a huge decision to make which I know you'll want to talk about about you know tax cuts and what what how you pay for those tax cuts because we learn time and again they don't pay for themselves but no the treasury secretary, wall street, banks, the markets, they're all very happy. Yeah, and we'll sail through. There's no expectation of any concern there whatsoever. And a number

of his picks Friday night were in a bliss. We had like a couple dozen came out in a few hours on Friday. Some of the health choices raised a few eyebrows, but for the most part, conventional picks that were met with some acclaim on both sides of the aisle. So let's talk about Tulsa Gabbard, President-elect Trump's pick for director of national intelligence that may face an uphill battle when it comes to her confirmation, particularly among Republicans on the Senate Intel Committee. Gabbard is set to visit Capitol Hill next week to meet with senators regarding her nomination. She's expected to face scrutiny for comments she's made appearing to echo Russian disinformation

and a 2017 visit to Syria where she met with President Bashar al-Assad. Take a look at what Republican Senator James Langford had to say about her nomination yesterday. Does anything about her concern you? Well, we'll have lots of questions. She met with Bashir Assad. We'll want to know what the purpose was

and what the direction for that was. As a member of Congress, we'll want to get a chance to talk about past comments that she's made and get them into full context. So sure, there's comments that are floating out there, but we want to be able to know the rest of the story. The pregnant pause? Or a delay.

The sigh? Or a delay. The answer. Now, here's what's funny. So Temi Duckworth said something off the top. Again, there's no evidence outwardly that what she said is true, that she's an agent. But, not that we know of yet, but you talk to one Senate Republican

on the Intel Committee after another, they will all say she's way too close with Assad. She's been an apologist for a guy who killed 500,000 people in this country and used weapons of mass destruction against civilians, gassed them, and yeah, she does. It doesn't appear that she repeats Kremlin talking points. She repeats Kremlin talking points. She can line it up. So again, you heard a Democrat expressing her concern, but what she said is what you hear

Republicans say and what you hear past Republican intel agency heads saying all the time that this woman cannot be confirmed. And I find it very hard to believe that Ms. McConnell, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, and one member of the Intel committee will not vote her down and say, try again. Let's remember what this job is. The director of national intelligence has the coordination function over 17, 18 intelligence agencies. Also Joe, this is the person who oversees the daily preparation of the single most important intelligence document that the president sees. The presidential daily brief, the PDB.

This person as a result has to be an honest broker. People have to know that they are getting what the president to use the old line, what he needs to hear, not what he wants to hear. She's not coloring it. She's not shaping it too much. I think she has an uphill fight to persuade people that she will be an honest broker. But Richard, with all that we're seeing going on with Tomorow around the world, Ukraine particularly, with the feeling that she's too close at best to Putin. Isn't it really a very very uphill battle for Trump to convince the

public even if he gets by the Senate and you say there may be a challenge there to bring in God, but when we're looking at a direct confrontation, we're not talking theory here, we're looking at a direct war with Ukraine and Putin's Russia. Oh, you've got that. You've got Ukraine and Putin's role there. The aggression continues. You've brought 10,000 North Koreans there. Talk of more. Russia now has become the biggest assister of North Korea's nuclear missile program. So we've got that. In 2026, this new administration, all the nuclear arms control agreements, the new START agreement expires.

We have now got to reset the table with Russia on the future of nuclear arms control, but we could find ourselves back in a situation worse than the Cold War. So the stakes are enormous here. You know, Jim, most of these picks that we've talked about this morning that we've made are going to sell through. There are a couple, though, that are not. One of course is Tulsi Gabbard. The other is the DOD person, Pete Hegswith.

Did I say that right? Hegseth. Hegseth. I'm going to get it right. Hegseth. Pete Hegseth. And it's interesting who you talk to on Capitol Hill, Republicans. One group will tell you that Gabbards would be the most dangerous person to America's

national security. Others will tell you that it's Pete Haggis who would be simply because, you know, he's in line for nuclear codes. It's a very large organization. One general told me he's the second most powerful man in the world, whoever the DOD, SecDef is. So you better have somebody that knows what the hell they're doing and they... Can pass an FBI background check.

That can pass an FBI background check. So I'm wondering what you're hearing. And again, the math's pretty simple. They can't lose Collins, Murkowski, McConnell, and one more. And I find it hard to believe that those three are going to put either of these two people into the most important positions in U.S. government. I think the concerns are much deeper at the defense secretary level because, yes, when you're running intelligence, you're doing the PDB, but there's a lot of people involved

in that. And I think there's a lot of the senators feel like there's going to be a lot of smart voices that have views that are much different than Gabbard does on intelligence, on Russia. Trump wanted kind of somebody who has different views on Russia that might be closer to his. That's why she's the pick. But when you're running the Defense Department, you're running the military at a perilous time. That's the one that Mitch McConnell cares most about. We're about to have to transform from a land-based warfare operating system to space-based at a time where there's a ton of volatility between us and Russia, us and China. My guess is that will get the most attention. If I had to pick the person who's most vulnerable, I think it's him quite

easily. And that's this past week, and that's what I started hearing also because Jim brought up problems with Russia, possible nuclear confrontation there, problems with China, continuing rising China, problems with Iran. Right now they are defenseless. Their air defenses are down. If Israel decides they want to start another regional war, wants to start a regional war with them and wants to go after another target after Iran keeps attacking them. You have the possibility of a regional war there.

And most Republican senators are like, you've got to give us a secretary of defense. And there is a feeling, I will say also following what Jim said, I have heard from several people, you can contain Tulsi Gabbard in the Intel committee. I don't think it's that simple. But yeah, I have been hearing what Jim just said time and again. It's the DOD. It's the Secretary of Defense, second most powerful person in the world. This guy, even without all the baggage, even with the fact that he lied or withheld from the Trump

administration and the transition team, they say he's just not qualified to do this important of a job. Yeah. And also I was talking to Republican Hill staffers the last couple of days and with Matt Gaetz withdrawing, that spared Republicans, senators having to actually put their name to a no vote. And there's a sense they can only do that once or twice, but they're able to save their fire.

And right now, right now Pete Hegs, it seems like the most likely candidate to get that no vote from a number of senators. And in Vaughn, I reported last week on this show, there was real questions raising about the Trump transition team not using the FBI for background checks. We had some Republican senators, Lisa Murkowski, expressed concerns about that over the weekend, that they're trying to just do it with private investigators who would not have nearly the access to criminal information that the FBI would. You're plugged in with the Trump team.

Is there any sense here they would reconsider their position, bring the FBI in, in light of these accusations against some of the more prominent picks? I've been asking for three weeks, and the question has been consistently that we're engaging with the GSA about signing these memorandums of understanding, which would open up the capacity to do those security clearances and those FBI background checks but we're three weeks in now and there has

been a concerted decision not to do that. Of course, as Miku was suggesting, questions about Tulsi Gabbard's FBI background file. You're talking about Cash Patel, somebody that could run the FBI himself if Donald Trump were to get his desires and his wishes. And this is where, if you are Donald Trump, there's a concerted understanding and recognition that you may not want to know what is in the FBI files of some of these individuals. Because the nucleus of people who Donald Trump trusts and their fealty and loyalty to him is so small now here, nine years on, and that's where you see some of these picks.

These are individuals who he believes would take his orders in the White House and who he knows would obey those orders. That group of people, it is so small here in 2024. But again, though, if they can't pass the FBI background checks, you do have Republican senators that are saying, on the record, kind of carefully, but behind the scenes, saying, wait, we're going to have the second most

powerful person in the world who's got like the nuclear, we're going to let him run the Department of Defense if he can't even pass an FBI check. So they stopped Matt Gaetz. Will they stop Pete Hegsson? Right. Will they stop Tulsi Gabbard? I mean, that would be the biggest declaration of the Republican Party yet that we have seen that there are some of these senators, Bill Cassidy, Todd Young in Indiana. Will they take a stand? Of course. And it's not just legislation, it's a budget.

Well, you just named two people right there. I haven't even brought up Bill Cassidy or Todd Young. Todd Young, both of them very, very serious legislators. Both of them care deeply. Todd Young cares very deeply. Senator Young from Indiana cares very deeply about America's national security. It is sort of his obsession. So there's another guy.

I didn't even put on that list with Murkowski and Collins and Mitch McConnell right there. I don't think he can get from where he is to a yes vote on a guy that can't pass an FBI background check and is not prepared for that position. You said the two key words, national security. For a long time, the Republican Party was the party of national security. Republicans are all over the place on social issues, economic issues, whatever, national security. So I think this might be a different test and it could be very difficult for these people.

And Michael, let's talk about, I wonder when is the last time America has been in such a dangerous position globally? And I will say after the election, what I said before the election, the United States is the most powerful country in the world relative to the rest of the world at any time since 1945. Right? The election results don't change anything. They certainly are.

But that doesn't mean we don't have the country that has the most nuclear weapons threatening to use those nuclear weapons if we push too hard on Ukraine. That doesn't mean we aren't in for a regional war in the Middle East if things don't get cooled down very quickly. When historically, when is the last time the international stage was this fraught? Well, as you're looking at a moment, maybe the late 1940s when the Soviet Army was marching through Europe and Harry Truman, as you have well written, Joe, responded by building NATO and by expanding American defense and also by instituting the Marshall Plan.

And that shows that you need a president who's got wonderful advice. Who did Truman have? He had Dean Acheson at his side. He had George Marshall, the secretary of defense. Even a great president like Truman needed these strong voices from the beginning of the time that they came into office. And that's the lesson here. The other thing I'm really inspired by is Republican senators seem, at least at this moment, a little bit more eager to push back on Donald Trump, where they think that he may have acted too quickly. That's something perhaps we didn't expect.

One quick historical lesson. Lyndon Johnson, in his entourage, had almost no one who had the guts to tell him, this expanding war in Vietnam is going to be a loser, it's going to wreck the country, you're going to wreck your presidency. That voice came from, of all people, Johnson's party leader in the Senate, Mike Mansfield, who hated the war, thought it was a loser, and told Johnson this again and again and again.

You really need these dissident voices, either in Congress, and preferably, or combined with in the president's entourage. Well, and like you said, the Senate has already shown that they're not willing to give up the constitutional prerogative of advice and consent. And we learned during the first Trump term, an attack against one federal judge is an attack against all federal judge is an attack against all federal judges when he attacked a George W. Bush judge and then he attacked a liberal federal judge.

You had conservative judges from the federalists who were from the Federalist Society ruling against him time and time again. So the federal judges are there as well. So it's fascinating. President of the United States, Michael Beschloss, thank you so much. Really quickly, I just want to ask. Michael said an interesting thing about that. You know, Truman had dissident voices and your people, you know, my people like Mike or other later on, Mike Manchin, LBJ, right? The difference in the Trump administration, he's the dissident voice. What you need in the Trump administration

is not so much dissident voices per se. You need more traditional voices who will basically say things like NATO has worked, US foreign policy for the last several decades has actually succeeded. He brings the dissident. You actually need some traditional voices who might argue that we've been well served by what we've done in the world. He had that in foreign policy the first term. He didn't like it.

Looks like he has some of that. Marco Rubio. Oh, I guess Marco Rubio. Yeah, you're right. There's a guy again, head of the Intel committee that worked very well with Democrats on the Intel committee. So I stand corrected. Really quickly, Kerry Lake, you've been coming,

Arizona's your beat. I'm curious, what do you think's next for her? I don't think she's going away. She's not gonna be in the US Senate for six years I don't think she's going away. She's not going to be in the U.S. Senate for six years. Do you think she's going to work in the Trump administration? I would be very surprised because of her loyalty to Donald Trump if they didn't welcome her in in some capacity. I think if she hadn't run for the U.S. Senate, she could have been a press secretary for

him. But I think that now, when somebody loses two times like she has in that fashion, it's tough to see where she fits in. And I just have to ask you really quickly about Arizona in general. I mean, I've always said Americans aren't that ideological. Arizona, which of course people look at the President's choice, go, oh, Democrats have lost Arizona. Arizonans have voted for four Democratic candidates for Senate in a row. What, for the first time since the 50s, they've actually sent somebody there? Anden Gallego Left of center and he won what what what what do Democrats learn from Arizona?

You learn the exact same lesson that Kyrsten Sinema learned the Mark Kelly learned Janet Napolitano Back in the year of 2000 learned is that if you are somebody that reaches a broad scope of people and you don't alienate them And you have somewhat of this independent libertarian streak to you in which you recognize that you want the successes of all your communities, I think those are the messages that have worked in Arizona. And by and large, you can take that to Georgia, John Ossoff. I think that there's examples outside of Arizona.

I think Arizona's just had some very unique people like Ruben Gallego that demonstrate that better than a lot of other. Yes. And I think that one thing, Ron, that has not been discussed a lot on this show and on Politics Nation race, that he had no blacks in his cabinet.

He has now appointed Turner, who is the head of HUD. But I heard a lot of people calling me over the weekend on the radio show saying, but that's the same her job that we have been causing is that Trump's black job. I mean, he is following someone who gave us a black vice president, a black woman on the Supreme Court had a black over the Pentagon, among other things. So he really didn't give anything to the small number of black men that increased his vote. I hope that that's something that he deals with and that people look at.

And at the same time, though, I think that what he did with the labor secretary is something that surprised even me, the most ardent Trump critic probably on the show. So just say Tim Scott's absence in this cabinet. And Byron Daniels. Tim Scott, Byron Daniels appeared to be overlooked and they work overtime. Alright, NBC's Von Hilliard, always great to have you on the set with us. Thanks for your reporting. And still ahead on Morning Joe, the latest from overseas as Israel and Hezbollah trade

more attacks amid ongoing ceasefire talks. Plus, run Republican senator makes an impassioned case for continued support of Ukraine. Did you see that? This was incredible. Senator Rounds is strong. We're going to play a long portion of this. It's really, really engaging. Pouring cold water on the idea of negotiating a peace deal with a tyrant. Morning Joe is back in 90 seconds.

Three past the hour. Time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. For seven straight months, the number of drug deaths in America has dropped, thanks in part to education efforts and expanded treatment also at play. The strength of the drug seems to be dropping. Fentanyl potency is on the decline as Mexico cracks down on cartels. The U.S. has also expanded the availability

of overdose reversal medications like Narcan. A former county treasurer in Arizona admits to embezzling $38 million in taxpayer funds. How do you do that? Federal prosecutors say the money was stolen. $38 million. Over a 10-year span. The money was used to buy vacation property, Cadillacs, RVs, and luxury home furnishings,

as shown in this government image. Santa Cruz County in southern Arizona is looking for ways to recoup the millions that were meant for the public's benefit. Richard, how did they let over $38 million slip through their hands? I guess the audits were a little bit lax. Oh my gosh.

Also, Wicked Sword, the top spot at the weekend box office Universal's adaptation of the popular musical, brought in $114 million. That makes it the third biggest domestic debut of the year and the best opening by far for a Broadway to film adaptation gladiator 2 opened in a solid second place with fifty five point five million dollars that was a bit behind expectations the Ridley Scott blockbuster which stars Denzel Washington comes a quarter century after

the original all right Jim van de H last week, he's here, right? Yeah, last week you were awarded the 2024 fourth estate award by the National Press Club, along with Axius' the great Mike Allen. So congratulations. That's awesome. The award recognizes journalists who have made significant contributions to the industry.

And you have. Specifically, you and Mikey were awarded for your work that has revolutionized how audiences consume news. And we have some of the remarks you made during your acceptance speech. Let's listen. I hate this damn debate about, like, oh, we don't need the media. Like, it is not true. Think about what makes this. I love this country. Let's listen. But there's something about the country. There's something about it, right? There's something about freedom, capitalism, the animal spirits of democracy.

But at the core of that is maybe transparency, maybe a free press, maybe the ability to do your job without worrying to go to jail, maybe the ability to sit in a war zone and tell people what's actually happening so they're not just looking at distortion. Matters, it matters profoundly. It's why it's not like we just

love getting up at three or four in the morning doing this every single day. Like we do it because we love it. We do it because it matters. The work that we do matters. Everything we do is under fire. Elon Musk sits on Twitter every day or X today saying like, we are the media, you are the media. My message to Elon Musk is, bullsh**, you're not the media. You having, you having a blue check mark, a Twitter handle, and 300 words of cleverness, doesn't make you a reporter. Any more than me looking at your head

and seeing that you have a brain and telling you I have an awesome set of tools makes me a damn neurosurgeon, right? Like what we do, what journalists do, what you did in Mississippi, what Al Jazeera does in the Middle East, you don't proclaim yourself to be a reporter? Like that's nonsense.

Like being a reporter's hard, really hard. You have to care. You have to do the hard work. You have to skid up every single day and say, I wanna get to the closest approximation of the truth without any fear, without any favoritism. You don't do that by popping off on Twitter. You don't do that by popping off on Twitter. You don't do that by having an opinion.

You do it by doing the hard work. Yeah, come on, slow clap everyone. Whoa. First of all, I've got to say, extraordinary content, it needed to be said, it continues to need to be said, when all of the garbage is flying around on social media, lying about reporters, lying about the hard work they do, lying about the hard work editors do, lying about everything up and down about not only their alternative set of facts,

but alternative set of facts about what people like you do and I love how you can act as reporters in Mississippi in the 1960's to reporters fighting for their life to get the story out in the Middle East today. Jim it was very powerful really got very powerful even if watch they had even if we had to beat you more than we would if we ran a Dave Chappelle concert. had to beat you more than we would if you ran a Dave Chappelle concert. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I know you know, I didn't some you know what I want to say

what why this is so important right now more than ever is because critics of the press and I feel more empowered than ever to lie more than ever. I've had friends for years, you oh, you know I'm so overwhelmed Joe by the news. I don't read the news. I go, where do you get your news then? Epic times. I go, oh.

Oh God. Oh, oh, you get your news from a website run by Chinese, conspiracy theorists in a Chinese religious cult. That is where you get the, no. Or if social media, people lying every day, every hour, every minute about the news. What you do matters. What the New York Times does matters.

What the Wall Street Journal does matters. What Jonathan Lamire does matters. What the Wall Street Journal does matters. What Jonathan Lamire does matters. What the Financial Times does matters. What NBC News and MSNBC reporters do matters. It matters. And it doesn't mean there aren't things that we get wrong. And the reason I guess I was hopped up at that speech was I listened to so many reporters who feel like the industry's going to hell, nobody trusts them, they're demoralized.

And the truth is we don't have time to be demoralized. We don't have time to whine. We have to do our job. Like there is a information war out there and there's still tens of millions of people that depend on great reporting. And it's our job to make sure we create viable businesses around it,

and that we really do try to get to the closest approximation of the truth. Maybe do a little bit, maybe be more curious than condescending, maybe a little more fearless than foaming at the mouth. And I think if we can do those things, I think we can win back people who are skeptical. The entire social media ecosystem,

a lot of the things you just mentioned, they feed off of all of us, of us trying to get to the closest approximation of truth. So people just like, I think they need to calm down. I know there's a lot of your viewers who kind of wish that that sometimes like everything was just like boom boom boom on one side, but like we have to bring people facts, we have to bring people clarity, and hopefully reported insights so they can ultimately make better decisions and understand a very, very complicated world. By the way, we've got great viewers.

And you know what? Our viewers are their family. We got it. We got we got a family that understands because they've been around. You have a family that follows you that understands because you've been around. The New York Times has a family Wall Street Journal, these places that have great reporters, right? They don't need to worry about what happens over the next five minutes or the next five

weeks or the next five months because you print truth all the time. And like you said, this is what gets me. If somebody pops off on Twitter or some other social media they lie they make mistakes, you know the cost that is Nothing, they do it again. In fact, it helps them because algorithms are rigged So you stir up shit and you you you the more you can get people angry The more followers you get but also now it's monetized Right help you like the more hate, the more you make. Yeah, there you go.

I like that. Hey, Rev, can you please for your next weekend? That'll go viral. I like that. But Jim, here's the deal that I explained to my friends that go into the gutter and get disinformation. I say, there's no cause for them lying to you. But if Jim Van De Hei has a reporter that gets it wrong, well, they're editors.

If the New York Times gets something wrong or the Wall Street Journal reporters get something wrong, they're editor after editor after editor after editor, and they check it, and they make sure it's right, they make sure it's double and triple source and still sometimes they get it wrong. And so then what happens? They either retract it or most likely they get sued if they don't retract it, right? So there are checks and balances there that you don't find in the gutter when you're on social media just following algorithms that lead you to liars. And it's easy to take one case of something being biased or one case of something being

wrong and saying, therefore, everything the New York Times writes or Axios writes is wrong. And what I tell people is just read the Wall Street Journal or Axios or the Financial Times or the New York Times every day And use your own eyes Do you feel like they're trying to get to the closest approximation of the truth? With every story and that most of the time if not almost all of the time they do if they do then you could trust it As a news source it doesn't mean you can't give yourself time to go get riled up because you have ideological views or other give yourself time to go get riled up because you have ideological views or other passions but if you take away truth and you take away reported truth or common facts from the equation I honestly believe the whole damn American

experiment goes under. You might love or hate a free press but there is a reason that this democracy, this country has thrived in a way that none others have and I believe and will forever believe that a free press sits at the center of that and that sometimes reality is reality and facts are facts. It is. It is. You know, Jim, Jim, this weekend, the second greatest thing to come out of Wisconsin, the first I saw a castle in Wisconsin made completely of cheese.

But after that, Jim Van De Hei, number two. And you know what I always say to my friends who say I don't trust the press anymore because they've been listening to Donald Trump undermine the press and Elon Musk and everybody else. I go, you know what, Murdoch owns the Wall Street Journal. Read the Wall Street, you don't wanna read the New York Times. I'll read it for you. You read the Wall Street Journal. That's a Murdoch paper. Look at their reporting. I mean,

so if people don't, if people think that Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal is like a left-wing pro deep state newspaper, they're beyond help. I mean, it's like at left-wing pro-deep state newspaper. They're beyond help. I mean, at some point, people have to want to know the truth. And if they don't want to know the truth, well, then go ahead and walk around ignorant. But again, if you won't even look at the Wall Street Journal, then yeah, there's a problem. Axios co-founder and CEO Jim Van De Hei.

Really quick, Rich, we've got to go. Go ahead. There's a movement in this country to teach kids in high schools media literacy and they can basically navigate this space. It's an important part of the civics education. It's a really important civics education for sure. Jim you're a hero. Thank you, great job. The Packers won easily too, so there you go. Coming up we're going to take a quick break from politics to recap the biggest stories from college and real football. ESPN commentator Paul Feinbaum. Oh it hurts. And MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre will take us through all this with their takes. Morning Joe back in a moment. Quiet day for Jefferson, one catch for seven yards. Darnold going up top early and he finds Addison and Addison bouncing off a tackler down the sideline. Addison down inside the 10.

The fewest 10 play drives and they got it. Valder going for it all. They've got it all. Jacobs no shot, barreling forward, touchdown again, number three for Jacobs in Green Bay. Goff hands it off, Gibbs comes to the outside, to the end zone, touchdown. And more consistent, but right there Seeler just beats Lowe for a huge play. Tongue of a Lowe gets it to Lowe, full acceleration, touchdown. Mayfield steps up, he's gonna run it. Mayfield at the five, trying to get in, and he does!

Touchdown! And what a run for Baker Mayfield. Oh Murray keeps it. Murray being chased by Witherspoon, floats for Wilson, off target to Coby Bryant. And there goes Coby Bryant. What a house call for Seattle. We're down to 47 seconds left. Mahomes out of the pocket. Mahomes on the run, takes a look around. Oh, Mahomes is still going.

Slips away for a huge gain. Line drive to Turpin, it bounces through his legs. Here he comes. Gavante Turpin spinning three. Here he goes. Fastest man in the NFL. Gavante Turpin takes it all the way. Touchdown Dallas.

You just don't get how that one spin. Just made every single commander fall to the ground, but it did. did an incredible run back some of the biggest plays across the NFL yesterday including the 90 yard fourth quarter kickoff return for the Dallas Cowboys. The commanders would answer with the field goal and then this 86 yard touchdown reception by Terry McLaurin that should have helped send the game to overtime. They're happy, they're happy, they're happy. Wah, wah, wah. And then Dallas Trans-Insuing one side kick 43 yards for a touchdown. One of the weirdest endings in a very long time. There you go, look at that.

Okay, that was a crazy, Pablo Torres here. Pablo, come on. What are the craziest endings of an NFL game in some time. Yeah, look, I have been telling you guys, I don't know how many great teams there are in the NFL this year, but we have spectacle. We have spectacled. You know, it's one thing that quality.

You're not entertained. Yes. Are you and look if you're a commander's fan, right? I think you thought it was safe to watch games like this. Jaden Daniels, new ownership, new name, renovations to the building, all of it is supposed to feel different, and then you tune in to a game in which there are 31 points

scored in the last three minutes or so. Yeah, yeah. And an extra point for those who, I don't know if I should explain extra points so pedantically to the audience, but- Please explain the words you are using to the audience. It's just dotting the I., so if you want the statistical rate 96% yeah of the time you just drill the extra points easiest thing in sports crazy

And here it is and when you have the 86 yard past Terry McLaurin and you miss this This is when it feels like I need to go back into my burrow and not watch exactly I'm not gonna to watch football. Now listen, speaking of not watching, let's get a shot at this New York Times. And the question is, I mean, you look at it, Jets fans, Giants fans, sad fans. Let's talk about a tale of two cities, New York and Philadelphia. It seems to me, and you said it before, before and I completely agree that the Giants and the Eagles Connected and at the same time going in two completely different ways. Yeah, so Richard

I think of Richard whenever I watch the Giants just be themselves at this point and his notes by the way It's not Ukraine. It's just fire people just like fire table So to me the Giants last week, okay, Daniel Jones gone, they release him, they are in total disarray, and they go into this game against the Bucs, and of course, it's Baker Mayfield against Tommy DeVito, and I don't wanna again pedantically explain Tommy DeVito, but he's the guy whose celebration

is a little Blon Natale, right? He is the most Italian man in the NFL. And so when Baker goes and does stuff like this, and he mocks the backups backup that is now starting for the Giants, you wonder, how did they get here? How did they get here? At a certain point, you swing the camera back over to Philly, which was in contrast to this.

Because in Philly, that's where the guy who was your star running back who was running into the end zone as big as for the Bucks for your Giants you used to have the MVP candidate Saquon Barkley who was doing stuff like I mean this guy should be the MVP winner this year. A couple of casual 70 plus yard runs the franchise record 255 yards rushing plus another 40 something on the ground 300 yards casually you know an offense for you This is an empty Jonathan. I'm an old man. Let him go

We're not when I was growing up and when Richard was growing up It was the running backs who were the stars not so much the quarterback I'm saying you have Roger Saab, Ock, Terry Bradshaw, but running backs for the stars, right? And and that weirdly enough now it's quarterbacks and wide receivers Barkley's breaking that rule right now that guy is the difference maker in Philadelphia. Yeah, there's a little bit of a shift back towards running backs this year, Derek Henry in Baltimore, but most particularly.

Say Kwon Barkley who I think should be the MVP this year because there's not an elite quarterback maybe it's Josh Allen after the big play last last week. We also saw stellar running backs in Detroit and in Green Bay yesterday. And like suddenly as wonderful as the Lions have been this year, Packers only came behind them. So that division, the NFC North, if you're not, again, if you're not tracking this as maniacally as I am, these are three playoff teams. The Packers are what, eight and three right now? There it is, eight and three in third place. The Vikings just beat the Bears

to go to nine and three. Our preseason picks not looking bad, no chiefs nobody picked out here we were the Lions and the the chiefs thanks the Lord that none of us were so delusional as to think that the Jets chance. Hey Paul Feinbaum we're not talking college football yet let's see how disciplined we can be let's talk about the Chiefs and the Panthers not a lot for the University of Alabama to be excited about but I'll tell you what yesterday

we had a lot to be excited about when we look at this this game we finally saw Bryce look like the quarterback in the NFL we knew he could be. Joe, Bryce Young finally did what he was paid 30 million dollars to do he led a team to what was hopefully a winning drive they ended up scoring with about two minutes to go they got the two-point conversion and of course they handed the ball over to Patrick Mahomes and we saw what happened. I mean you hand the ball over to Mahomes with a minute and a half left. You just knew he was going to win the game because that's exactly who he is and that's

why he keeps winning Super Bowls. But Bryce actually, I've never been a fan of letting rookies play in the NFL the first year. Sit them at least for half a season. Let them see the pace. Let them under... But nobody does that anymore. They draft somebody, they throw them out on the field, and it usually hurts them. You look how Bryce controlled this game, how he controlled the offense. We don't have to watch this. And Bryce, you can tell, Bryce on the sidelines for two, three, four, five weeks helped him look at the game from the sideline and understand, okay, that's what I need to do in the NFL. That's how things are different in the NFL. The pacing, the speed, the quickness, the skill.

I mean, it made a difference, didn't it? It made a tremendous difference. And listen, he was cast aside. They were talking about trading him, getting rid of him. But in the end, he showed great resistance. Now, Joe, I have to ask you a question. Are we just filibustering here talking about Bryce with Blades? The elephant in the room here. Let's talk about it. It was pathetic. but you know, it's always easy to blame the quarterback, right? And I will blame a quarterback who's getting paid $30 million a year. I will not blame a kid, and I'm sorry, I'm old enough that if you're in college, I call

you a kid. I'm not going to blame Jalen Milrow. When Oklahoma actually has coaches who are smart enough to stop the run, they've got to figure out a way to get him confident, to get him, this is the second half. After he was shut down the entire first half, the thing we know about Jalen is his confidence goes up when he's running, then he can start passing well. The coaches even say that.

This is an offense, Alabama offense, that their offensive coordinator doesn't have a theory in case their defensive coordinator incapable of adjusting and the middle of the game you would think if Oklahoma ran the ball 50 times a quarterback dead they would actually go you know what maybe we should stop him from running around the left edge. I you know, Jack and I would watch the game I go all right he's going to I swear to God I go it's going to take a hand off he he's gonna run around the left end did it time and time

again I'm telling you what these coaches especially the assistant coaches no I'm dead serious they will be good coaches one day but that will not be in time for the University of Alabama they don't there. They're not good enough to be there. We have an offensive coordinator time and again that actually doesn't understand that you can throw to your tight ends in the seams like four or five, six yards down the field, split the seams, spread the defense out,

open up the running. I mean, Paul, this is obvious stuff. This is obvious. And I don't know how they got this bad. This is, we remember the Mike Schula era. I was in Alabama when they were five and six, right? We are there again. And Paul, this is a sad thing.

It's not going to get any better until you have coaches that know how to play in the SEC. Joe, I was thinking back over the years and yeah, Alabama has had inferior coaches, but I cannot remember a time in a big game, and by the way, everything was on the line. Alabama wins in Norman, beats Auburn, which they're already a double digit favorite. They go to the SEC game, they're in the playoffs, they have a shot at a national championship, and they threw it all away. And I just don't ever remember a ill-prepared team.

And I blame the head coach, who was Kaelin DeBoer. Yes, we all know what he had to take over, but he was left a gold nine. He was left one of the two or three or four best and most talented teams in the country. Hey, Paul, and that's the problem. And he's thrown it all away. You know, Paul, usually people say, don't follow a great coach, which makes a lot of sense.

But in this case, and I hate to be this way, this is the best it's go, no, I'm serious. This is the best it's going to be. He has Nick Saban's players, and he's getting beaten this badly by a 1-5 team in the SEC. And he seems like a really nice guy. And he seems really... He's a great personality. Hold on.

He seems really... That's what wants your heart tight. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, not. No, it's not. No, it's not. This is the South. Hold on.

He seems very Zen most of the time, and that's awesome. Guess what? That's what I want in baseball coaches, right? That's what I want in baseball players, where you have to stay Zen because of all the failure. You don't want that in the Southeastern Conference. So what's Alabama going to do? Are they going to sit there and be polite and let this program tank over the next two or three years, or are they going to make a change this year?

Joe, they're not going to make a change. That's pretty obvious. I asked the M.C. director a couple weeks ago. We'll be having the same conversation next year, but go ahead. No, it's not going to happen and they will go to some good bowl game in Florida that nobody will care about. The Voka Ball. And I think the same thing will happen because it's not fair to compare him to Nick Saban.

Nobody is Nick Saban other than maybe Bear Bryant but this is where we are with Alabama. And again the problem is I'm not knocking these guys. I'm really not. They're ill-prepared. He's not, he was not prepared to come into the SEC. I never thought he was prepared to come into the SEC. I don't care if we're late, but you're talking about the most important thing

in America, the future of Alabama football. Hey, Paul, you guys, let's talk about the other games and let's talk about teams are actually going to be in the playoffs. Why don't we start with you Pablo let's talk about Ohio State in Indiana. Oh sure which one doesn't belong. I like how Ohio State is a palate cleanser for you. So I'll state the theory of their cases they have one of the best offenses and one of the best defenses and sometimes

you get a school like Indiana that hasn't really played this competition. And so when you when you evangelize on behalf of the SEC, just know that the reason you can do that is because there are teams like Indiana that go up against Ohio State and get exposed immediately. And so the playoff picture, look, sometimes, you know, the Dukes Mayo Bowl, you know, that's a delicious bowl for Alabama to be at. I told my son we were going to the Astro Blue Bonnet Bowl. Yeah, beef-o-graties, or whatever it is.

That was ahead of Houston like 40 years ago or something. Paul, let's talk about the SEC at another crazy game, Ole Miss, which we are all sure after Georgia was the best team in football. Nick Saban said best team in college football. The Gators handed it to him. Let's talk about that game and talk about like who's who's good enough in the SEC to take it all the way now.

I still think Georgia may be may be the best team in spite of a couple of losses. Texas has not played a very good schedule. Impressed. So what you're going to get from the SEC, you'll get three schools. Tennessee has now in the playoffs probably because of what happened the other day, Georgia and Texas. I want to go back to the Ohio State game for just one second though. Did you see Caleb Downs' 75-yard punt return? That guy was in Alabama last year. Can you imagine how he would have felt in a situation like that. He's probably the biggest affection. He went from Alabama to Ohio State. But ultimately, this great league that I cover, and you love, Joe, we thought maybe five schools

would make it right now, three. The only possibility of more is if Texas A&M wins this epic game against Texas, and then they go to the SEC game, and Texas gets in and perhaps Texas A&M winning there. But that's the only way. It was one of the, I have not seen a day with more carnage in the SEC.

And by the way, that's an ultimate weekend before Thanksgiving. We call it Cupcake Weekend. It's all the Mercers and the Georgians. It's usually when nothing happens. But even though Oregon is number one, I think Ohio State will beat them in at the at the Big Ten Championship game. Penn State in Indiana. You mentioned that. I mean, Joe, I think Indiana would finish about eighth or ninth maybe in the SEC. Can we keep those games up? Put up this list. And now, I know this last week, Alex, I know what

And now, I know this last week, Alex, I know what I, as Neil Young would say, I've done this before. But anyway, I wanna go through these and Paul, maybe it's just me. If Oregon plays in the SEC, I saw how they played Wisconsin, how they struggled. They'd lose three or four games. Ohio State, they're a good team. Texas, I'm not so impressed.

If Georgia gets some SEC championship, they're gonna to lose lose again Penn State. Don't get me started on how badly Penn State would do in the hands when the state they can win a big game never won a big game and they would lose 4 to 5 games in the SEC same with Indiana and Notre Dame I know I'm going to upset my friends, but seriously how long was this charade Okay, stop putting them in the top ten they humiliate themselves like Alabama does Miami, you know I thought Miami like Miami was weak until I saw how bad Alabama was and suddenly camwards a guy that can change a game and an instant I can't

figure out all those who can and so there you go. I would you like to add anything I just. Well, I mean what I like is because clearly hearing all of this for the second time this this. I just like I just like how Joe has turned this into an episode of Paul Feinbaum's radio show is a caller is the next fill us from all the bless her soul. This is this is just time. Okay, Paul final final thought reclaim your time to

reclaim your time Paul give us the best 2 teams in college football that you want to say and the championship game. I think ultimately we're going to see Georgia play Ohio State. That would be a great game. What do you think Pablo? Yeah I hate to disagree. Yeah I would love to see the teams. Hey Paul, have fun on your show. ESPN's. Hold on a second. And Paul you have said I was in large part responsible for bringing Nick Saban To Alabama. Yeah, I I want you to pass along the word if you want to win again Oh, I know nobody will want to do it bring Lane Kiffin to Alabama and will win a national People-on-clave is reassembling. No, no, no, no. Listen, let me tell you something

I said this while they were searching and they got us a guy that didn't know the SEC. You may not like Lane Kiffin. Mika, you know Joe is responsible for bringing Saban. I mean, Joe, I've said that. I'm not making it up. It happened had you not done what you did. So I am appointing you as the voice of the SEC to start the Alabama Coaching Search today. You bring Lane Kiffin to Alabama. We will win a national championship within three years. Yellow Hummer.

And he will be at the top. We will be in the championship game for the next six years. It's that simple. You know what? As I said about the AG pick, you can pay me now or you can pay me later. But you better do it now because we're going to keep losing. That's an interesting thing to say. But other than that, I got nothing to say. Thank you very much.