Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/27/23

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Pressure grows to extend cease-fire on last day of temporary truce

What she endured is unthinkable. Abigail was among 13 hostages released today from Gaza under the brokered and sustained, though intensive, U.S. diplomacy. She's now safely in Israel. And we continue to press and expect for additional Americans will be released as well. And we will not stop working until every hostage is returned to their loved ones. President Biden speaking yesterday about an American girl who was orphaned by Hamas terrorists and taken hostage. You heard the president mention 13 hostages in the end. 17 were freed yesterday. We'll have a live report from Tel Aviv on the people who are still being held by Hamas, as well as the future of the humanitarian pause in Gaza. Also ahead, the latest developments in the shooting of three college students of

Palestinian descent in Vermont. The FBI said it is now investigating the attack. We'll have the very latest, plus a tale of two Thanksgivings, President Biden sharing a message of optimism and unity. It's very helpful. Said we need to come together, which I think obviously, I think anybody running for president would be saying the same thing, right? Sure. Absolutely.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, former president, candidate, spent the holiday rage posting on his social media platform. Well, that's interesting. Yeah. Super angry. He is an angry man. Good morning and welcome to Morning Show. It is Monday, November 27th. What decade he's in. There's a lot going on there. He thinks he's running against Barack Obama. We hope you all had a good Thanksgiving. Yeah. With this, we had the host of Way Too Early, White House Beer Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, U.S. special correspondent for

BBC News, Katty Kay, and columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post, David Ignatius, is with us this morning. And there is a lot to tell you about on this Monday morning. Today is set to be the final day without fighting inside Gaza unless the humanitarian pause in the Israel-Hamas war is extended, allowing more hostages to be released. Hamas has released 58 hostages since the truce took effect on Friday. 14 Israeli and three Thai hostages were released yesterday, including the first American since the pause went into place.

Dual national Abigail Edan was released. She turned four years old on Friday while being held hostage by Hamas. Her parents were killed in the Hamas terrorist attack on October 7th. So she emerges to safety as an orphan. Under the initial deal, Israel agreed to extend the pause one day for every additional 10 hostages released by Hamas. On Sunday, Hamas released a statement saying it wanted to extend the truce, but as of last night, there was no official agreement. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said there's already an outline for an extension to the pause and he would welcome it. While the prime minister of Qatar told the Financial Times the truce could be extended if Hamas is able to use the pause to

locate additional hostage hostages being held by other armed groups. There's a lot still to work out here. And also the question of how much do they know about where all of the hostages are? Well, exactly. And and sadly, the hostages, what's not being said, the hostages that are still alive. Right. And we're also talking about the hostages that Hamas actually directly has control over right now. So many questions. David Ignatius, though, I would like to talk about the specifics of extending the truce, but I just feel like we have to stop for one moment because we are obviously focused on the acts of terror against the Israelis, the bombing in Gaza. These are the things that obviously grip us for good reason day in and day out. But if you could talk about the extraordinary work, we haven't discussed this. I just, I know this. So I know you know this far better than me. Talk about the extraordinary work that's been going on behind the scenes by the Biden administration.

Every time these hostage deals trip up, it's Joe Biden who gets on the phone. And whether he's cajoling Israel, whether he's cajoling Qatar, whether he's working with our allies across the region. I mean, the last couple of weeks, you don't you really don't see it in newspapers, but it's been pretty extraordinary. The last couple of weeks have shown how actually 50 years of experience in foreign policy saves lives. Well, I think you said it just right, Joe. The phrase quiet diplomacy is one we use often. And we're actually seeing a perfect example of that in this process of hostage release negotiation. Going back into the first days after October 7, when there was this terrible nightmare of hostages, the United States began working with Qatar, the country where Hamas political leadership

lives, and with which Israel has done business in secret for more than a decade through its intelligence service, to try to see whether a dialogue about release of hostages was possible. I was in Qatar just two and a half weeks ago, the day before Bill Burns, the head of the CIA, and David Barnea, the head of Mossad, came to Doha to meet with the Qatari prime minister to work out the basic outlines of the hostage deal that we're now seeing implemented. Every time there was an obstruction, a blockage that people were having trouble resolving, President Biden did get involved. He got involved directly with the Qatari leadership.

He got involved directly with Egypt, which at some points had a special entree with Hamas, to keep this process going. And I think he does deserve credit for using the special power that a president has to get us to these amazing scenes where Abigail and the two daughters of Mayan Zin, who she wrote so movingly about, Dafna and Ella, are being released. These are moments of joy. I just would note, Joe, that built into this process that President Biden helped to create was a notion that more hostages would be released. And, you know, there would be a dynamic of more for more. The more hush you find and can deliver, the longer the pause will be. But we're getting to near the end of that.

There's a dilemma for Hamas, which does have difficulty locating all of the remaining. Let's say there are about 100 women and children, something over 50 have been released. So there's, let's say, 40, 45 still to go. Some of them are being held by groups that are not easy for Hamas to manipulate. So fighting those hostages, getting them released is going to be a difficult process over the next several days. My guess is that this process will be extended a little while longer, but then it's going to hit a wall, and that's going to create a real dilemma for everybody involved,

Israel, Hamas, and the United States. Joining us now from Tel Aviv, NBC News foreign correspondent, Raf Sanchez, with the very latest. Raf? Mika, good morning. Israelis are celebrating the release of that third group of hostages last night. And as David is saying, they are warily eyeing this fast approaching deadline when the ceasefire due to expire 7 a.m. local time tomorrow, midnight tonight, Eastern. We are hearing hopeful signs, positive sounds from all sides about the

possibility that this deal could be extended under those pre-agreed terms. One additional day of ceasefire in exchange for 10 more hostages. But as of right now, there is no deal confirmed. And if nothing changes, the fighting do begin again tomorrow. Just going back to the hostages, 14 Israelis released last night in exchange, once again, for 39 Palestinian prisoners freed from Israeli jails in Jerusalem and in the occupied West Bank. And among those 14 Israelis, that four-year-old American-Israeli toddler, Abigail Moore-Edan. It is worth pausing on her story for just a moment, not just because she's American, but because she has become such a symbol of the hostage crisis in this country.

This little girl's parents were murdered on the morning of October 7th by Hamas terrorists in the kibbutz Kefar Aza. She managed to walk on her little legs to a neighbor's house. She was sheltered there by that family until they were taken hostage themselves. They were carried into Gaza. She turned four years old as a hostage on Friday. And then last night, after 52 days in captivity, she emerged along with the neighbors she was kidnapped with. She is now at the Schneider Hospital here in the greater Tel Aviv area. Her family says she is doing well. Fortunately, it sounds like all of the children who have come out of Gaza

so far are doing well. There is concern about one elderly woman. She's 84 years old. She came out last night and she is said to be in serious medical condition. We don't know the exact details. Because of her condition, the choreography last night was different from what we had seen from the two nights prior, before we saw these Israeli hostages going from Gaza into Egypt and then crossing back into Israel. But last night, a different setup. They were handed over to the Red Cross in Gaza City, just a few miles from where Israeli forces are positioned. And they crossed directly over the Israel-Gaza border, that elderly woman taken by helicopter to a hospital in Israel. We're starting, guys, to get a first glimpse of the conditions these hostages endured over these last seven weeks. One little boy, Ohad, he's nine years old, telling his family that they weren't physically abused, they weren't tortured, but there were days when they went without food, that they slept on hard wooden benches. when he asked to go to the bathroom, and it would be hours before a Hamas guard would take him. He has been reunited with his father. His mother and his grandmother were taken hostage with him.

They are now free. But his grandfather, 78-year-old Avram, is still a hostage. And we have seen that bittersweet note over and over again that some members of one family will be free, but others remain inside of Gaza. If the fighting does resume again tomorrow, it will be devastating for the people inside Gaza who have been able to get some humanitarian aids over the last couple of days. And, of course, it is likely that we will see civilian casualties there rising once again. Guys. All right. NBC's Raf Sanchez, live from Tel Aviv. Thank you so much. Katie Kay, it is again, it's one of the great concerns about continuing to strike these deals that first of all, number of hostages that are still alive and also 40 or so hostages that are being held right now by splinter groups that Hamas doesn't really have that much control over because as hard as it

is to believe that some of those splinter groups are even more extreme than Hamas and don't have any diplomatic arrangements with Qatar or other countries that we can even negotiate with. Yeah, there was some skepticism of the notion that emerged early on when Hamas said it didn't have all of the hostages, that that was possible given that Hamas controls Gaza. But I think actually we've come to the awareness over the last few days, as some of these hostages have come out, that that is the case. We know that on October the 7th, some Hamas, some of the people who went across the border were Hamas, but there were also other civilians from within Gaza, from other groups who went over and took hostages themselves. And that is clearly a

complication. For the Israelis, what's important is getting these people out, obviously. But every single hostage who comes out brings with them snippets of intelligence of how they were held, where they were held, the resources that Hamas had to hold them. And I think it was interesting that we heard just there from the reporting that one of the hostages who came out said that some days they didn't have food. That gives you an indication of the kind of pressures that the hostage takers are under, that there are days when they can't necessarily feed them and would also lead you to think that getting rid of more of the hostages, handing back more of the hostages to the Israelis might be something that Hamas is interested in. So the intelligence that comes out with these hostages is very helpful to the

IDF as they try to secure the release of some of the others, even if they're not all being held by Hamas. But maybe this pause that we're seeing at the moment, the indications are that Hamas is using that, we hope, to try to find and regroup the other hostages. Jonathan O'Meara, let's talk about the Biden administration and the balance that they're having to strike. Obviously, they're dealing with Qatar and the leaders there. You have obviously Blinken, Sullivan, Bill Burns, Brett McGurk, everybody fanning out across the Middle East, trying to make this work and having having success keeping this process moving forward. But talk about the ongoing frustration that the Biden administration has with Netanyahu, the ongoing frustration about Biden's hope, President Biden's

hope that we can see an extension of the ceasefire. And if fighting does resume again, when fighting does resume again, the Israelis take a much more targeted approach. Talk about the frustration the Biden administration has right now about the fact that they still have fears that there may be many more civilian casualties ahead if the Israelis don't focus their attacks more carefully. Yeah. First, as you just mentioned, all these senior administration officials fanning out throughout the region, the president himself and working the phones throughout the Thanksgiving weekend, holiday weekend he spent in Nantucket when there was a real snag on day two of the pause. And it looked like those hosses wouldn't

be exchanged that day. The president got on the phone, worked with Qatar, worked with Israel, got that situation resolved. And he has been talking to Prime Minister Netanyahu throughout this crisis and certainly has expressed Netanyahu privately and also said himself, when we heard from him yesterday, that he wants this pause to be continued. He is hopeful of this pause being continued, believes this is the best way to ensure the safety of these hostages, that the chances of these hostages getting out. And to your point, we don't know how many are still alive or exactly where they are, but the chances of getting them out really diminish if the fighting resumes in full force. And while he's saying that, he has also made very clear, the president himself has said, members of president himself has said,

members of his administration have said they hope Israel will have a real targeted approach. And it's been a mixed bag to this point. The U.S. has been leaning on Israel to be selective, to be targeted throughout the conflict. There are moments where Israel listened, other moments where Israel very much did not. But we should mention this, though Netanyahu himself signaled that he might be willing to extend the pause. He also in a video message released late last night said that when the fighting resumes, whenever that might be, it will be a full on war again. So that does not sound like the selective targeted approach the U.S. is advocating for. And that will be a real tension point going forward. That makes it even more complicated. Ahead in one minute,

we're going to go through the new developments in the shooting of three Palestinian men, men of Palestinian descent in Vermont. NBC News investigations correspondent Tom Winter joins us with the very latest on that. Plus, why Chris Christie says Donald Trump opened the door to the rise in hate across the country. We're back in 60 seconds. Welcome back. A suspect has been arrested in connection to Saturday night's shooting of three college students of Palestinian descent in Burlington, Vermont. A 48-year-old white male was detained yesterday after law enforcement found probable cause during a search warrant on his apartment

to arrest the suspect. The alleged suitor will be arraigned in court later today. This comes as two of his victims are in stable condition while one sustained more serious injuries. The group of friends were in Burlington for Thanksgiving break, having known each other since attending the same Quaker school in the West Bank. The friends were walking to a relative's home at the time of the attack, speaking Arabic and wearing traditional Palestinian scarves. Police say the suspected shooter did not say a word before he fired at least four times, hitting all three men. The families are

asking law enforcement to investigate the shooting as a hate crime. This is so horrific. These three young men actually went to schools across the Northeast and they met up for Thanksgiving at the home of one of the friends. In Burlington, Vermont. In Burlington, Vermont. And then they went out. immediately jumped to the conclusion that it's a hate crime because, of course, that's what happened in Detroit with the woman who was killed, who was a synagogue leader right after the terror attacks. And that ended up not being a hate crime. That said, the fact that these three young men are from three different colleges, came together to celebrate Thanksgiving.

And we're just walking down the street. And again, two wearing traditional Palestinian scarves. Makes it hard to assume it was anything but a hate crime. But again, the FBI will be investigating that. And to talk about that process, let's bring in NBC News investigations correspondent Tom Winter. Tom, just an absolute tragedy in Vermont. Talk about what the FBI is going to be looking at. Well, I think they're going to be looking at a whole host of things. So how this all went down yesterday, according to the chief of police who emailed reporters directly at 1233 this morning announcing the arrest shortly after 3.30 p.m.

ATF agents who were in the area of where the shooting occurred apparently encountered the individual who was arrested, who's been identified as Jason Eaton, 48 of Burlington, Vermont, quite close to the shooting. We'll get to that in a second. So they're canvassing the area approximately 3.30 yesterday afternoon. They encounter him. They take him into custody. And then the U.S. Attorney's Office, along with the Chittenden County District Attorney, the local district attorney there, get a search warrant for his residence shortly before 10 p.m. last night. And according to the chief of police, John Murad, he says that based on that search and based on the information that they developed in the course of the investigation, they developed enough probable cause to make an arrest. Where was that search conducted?

It was conducted in the apartment building directly across, apparently, from where the shooting occurred. And that's where this individual lives. So we know that they at least live in that area. He at least lives in that area. And then I think the question here this morning, it is a Raymond. We know who, we know how. And the big question, to your point, Joe and Mika, I think is why. So, Tom, can you tell us a little bit more about, and I know it's early hours here,

but what investigators do know about the exchange and what actually happened in that moment before he opened fire? And if there's anything in the suspect's history that would suggest, that would lend further credence to the idea that this might be a targeted or bias attack? Right. So based on what the chief put out on yesterday afternoon, the shooting, which occurred Saturday night, approximately 625 p.m., apparently this individual walks up to them and just starts firing that there was nothing that was said ahead of time. As far as this individual's background, that's something we're still digging through. And I'm sure that they're digging through as well on the law enforcement side. Of course, we know the ATF obviously made the arrest.

They're critical with the ballistics information, the FBI there. To Joe's point, I think they're going to try to determine at this point, along with the U.S. attorney's office, were there any statements that were made subsequent to that when he was in custody? What did they find at the home? What did they find on his digital media devices? To that end, and more direct to Joe's question, the FBI was helpful in this. According to the chief of police and according to the FBI, they were working with their cell site analysis teams, which could, of course, locate where an individual is if they have their cell phone on. But they also had their computer teams, the cart teams there. Perhaps they found something on his digital devices, which at some point here we might find out could be helpful in determining motive. All right. NBC News investigations correspondent Tom Winter. Thank you very much. Let's go back

to David Ignatius and pull out to big picture in terms of the efforts to try and end this war, where it seems like the smaller objectives along the way, whether it be small groups of hostages coming home, how to actually characterize going back into war mode, it seems almost like these objectives conflict with each other. Mika, I have the same fear. This is a day when we're seeing these joyous images of young children being freed, reunited with their families. You know, we're moved and grateful to everybody involved, including key people in the Biden administration. Israeli officials tell me that they have not given up their fundamental goal here, which is to destroy Hamas politically. And that when this period of hostage releases ends, and that is in a few days by anybody's

calculation, they intend to go back to high intensity conflict. That's the phrase that's been used with me. That sounds like what we were watching on our TV screens before the hostage release process began. It was very painful before the hostage release process began. It was very painful for the world to watch that. It led to a lot of anger and outrage. I think Israel's trying to think, how does it go back to war and accomplish its goal of destroying Hamas without getting that same degree of international anger?

It's going to be a very difficult problem for them. I think the U.S. will get involved in that. Hard to predict now just exactly what proposals the U.S. will offer. But that's the dilemma that Israel's facing. David, how clear is the Israeli thinking on the next steps and what the repercussions of those steps will be? So if they go back to full war, how clear are they on the pressure that that puts on neighboring Middle Eastern countries and how long the leaders of those countries can withstand that pressure? How clear are they on the response that would come from Europe, from even from the United States? I mean, are they having are they having thoughtful,

deep conversations about the medium and longer term? So, Katty, the hope is that this period of humanitarian pause to allow hostage release has also been accompanied by significant new shipments of aid. We read about 200, 300 trucks that are carrying food, medical supplies, new shelter for people who have been forced to leave their homes. And I think the Israeli hope is that in this environment where there's better attempts to take care of civilians, that some of the pressure may be reduced. These may be more targeted operations. That's been a debate that's been ongoing within the Israeli military now for weeks. Should they move to a period where it's more standoff and you use special forces teams to go in after particular targets when you find them,

that would be a less bloody, less troubling thing for the world to watch. I think the hard question will be, once you stop a war, starting it again is very difficult. And that's the dilemma that faces Israel in the coming days. We'll have to watch that carefully. All right. The Washington Post, David Ignatius, we thank you very much, as always, for your insights. Thank you. I'll tell you, Mika, I just just looking this weekend at the papers. Yeah, we're going to talk about this later. But the New York Times editorial lays out the editorial board lays out the way forward with the Israel-Palestinian peace process. And there are people that are saying there is no peace process moving forward after these attacks.

Well, there has to be. We really don't. We, as Americans, don't have a choice if we're going to continue to be invested as much as we are in Israel and in that region. And Israel doesn't have a choice, as so many Israelis understand. There has to be a way forward. It's hard to see right now. But the New York Times editorial page, I don't always say that the New York Times editorial page lays things out very well. And I must say also, in this age of TikTok, where you just have idiot

takes on Middle East peace because somebody has seen it on TikTok or Instagram on the reels for 15 seconds, the New York Times magazine this weekend lays out the history of of the peace process, the failed peace process. It's vexed American presidents for decades. It has. And it's there's not alignment now. Right. And that's the fundamental problem moving forward. But we have to have an understanding of it. And whether you get it from from somewhere else or you can. There's a good primer this weekend, again, in The New York Times magazine. And also a lot of questions to be raised. Everybody's going to disagree with parts of this editorial. bumper sticker mentality over a 2000, 3000 year old conflict, 2000 year conflict,

at least have them read this and discuss it. You can tell them about the parts that you agree with, the parts that you disagree with. But people people have to be more informed on this issue, because I think one of the reasons why you have such hate and such division is because people don't want to make this issue anything more than something that you can fit on a bumper sticker. Exactly. Coming up on Morning Joe, we'll talk more about this. We'll also be joined by a woman who had four family members who were held hostage by Hamas, freed over the weekend. We will hear about their emotional reunion just ahead on Morning Joe.

Ominous shot of New York City at 33 past the hour. Welcome back to Morning Joe. I mean, it's hard for you to look outside of your condo, your penthouse condo. It's old and boring. As you fly back and forth in the south of France on Thanksgiving weekends. Tired, very tired joke. People actually believe those when I say that. They'll come up, go, didn't meet you in the south of France yesterday. I said, well, no.

But anyway, I was wondering about malls and zombie malls as you pass by them. And the Wall Street Journal actually has a story about, you know, these malls that we used to always go to. I can't even imagine how often you were in malls. But growing up. My dad wouldn't let me go. We were, you know, that's where people hung out. And now these things have turned into. Spencer's gifts.

To zombie malls. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's sort of like cities, downtowns. Like, what's going to happen to some of these major places that aren't seeing business anymore? Probably turning into maybe housing. And that's the interesting thing is that financiers are actually holding on to these malls, even while the town is begging them to, the towns are begging them to sell them because they're just, they're not doing it,

but they're holding on to it as possible future investments. But you have the zombie malls and then caddy, something interesting that I noticed this week as I was, actually had time to go out to restaurants because, you know, we go to sleep at Mekonai at about 5.30 every evening right before World Fortune comes on. Oh, yeah. I exaggerate just a little bit. But it's interesting, you know, retail,

everybody's buying everything on Amazon or they're buying online. So you're seeing retail stores, especially in high-rent like New York, just just, you know, going bust. I'm starting to notice restaurants in certain areas also having less people inside the restaurants because everybody's ordering in now. They're they're they're getting delivery service. It's really, I'm wondering if some restaurants are going to be going the way of some retail clothing stores too. I mean, we're seeing our whole economy in this zombie mall story talks about it. Our whole economy is changing pretty dramatically. This is one of those questions, Joe, where I was very glad that you spoke for a while because I was wondering in my own head, how am I going to get to zombie malls to some kind of sensible answer on this?

OK, so we have had the numbers on this that the over the course of the holiday spending weekend, the sales weekend, the retail market, clearly online, the numbers were super good, right? The cyber spending for all of the sales has been great. We don't yet have the numbers for foot traffic in the shops, so we don't know whether people will actually go into the shops. But just this weekend, I was out in Virginia, where we spend sort of three or four days, try to every week. And in the local town where we go, three of the restaurants are up for sale because they say that they can't get hourly labor.

They can't get workers to work in the restaurants. And so three of the restaurants are going to be up to sell and presumably are going to shut down. It's the kind of thing that you're talking about. Now, whether that's the same as people not going to restaurants and just ordering takeout, or whether that's because there's a labor shortage in the country, which there clearly is,

which is another reason to look at the immigration question and what's happening at the border and come up with some sort of agreement on that. It's not good. It's not good. Right. If you have a very small town, which depends on tourism, three of the restaurants go under. That's a problem. Well, and Jonathan, let me hear, you know, people are going to look back, I think, even in a few years and go, wait a second, let's get this straight. Small business owners, family restaurants, like family, you know, main street restaurants, hardware stores, bookstores have had to close down because they didn't have enough workers. And at the same time, you have immigrants that are literally risking their lives to get here

so they can work in America. It really there again, there is a solution to be had. And this is not a left right issue. This is a again, if you're a champion of small businesses, of entrepreneurs, of family restaurants, of family small businesses on main streets that are having to shut down because they can't find enough workers. This this seems to be an issue where Congress should come together and get things fixed. It would seem like a layup, but yet nothing is nothing's happening and there's no sign that anything will. It's become too convenient of a political cudgel to just rail against the immigration system as opposed to actually doing anything to fix it. And to your point, into caddies, you know, people from both sides of the aisle, reasonable people realize this is a moment where we do need more immigrants for economic reasons and all the rest.

And yet this isn't happening, at least. And there's no sign it's going to happen anytime soon as we're about to turn the calendar into an election year. And yes, this also I also think the other part of this is we're still just grappling with the changes to everyone's life because of the covid pandemic, where people got more used to just doing everything remotely. They got used to doing delivery. They got used to just picking up on their phone and pressing a button and have something sent to them, whether it's food or they did their shopping that way, accelerating trends that were already in the works. And now we're just that much further. And I think the societal impact of the pandemic is going to be felt for years and years and years. People's patterns and behavior changed. You know, the delivery patterns have changed. The patterns have changed dramatically. But Jonathan, delivery service is so expensive. Like you order. I ordered a half eaten Pop-Tart this weekend and it was fifty five dollars plus, you know, plus gratuities. No, it is so expensive. I really wonder when people are going to go, wait, say I can't afford

fifty dollars for a half eaten Pop-Tart. I'm going to get in my car and actually drive and see other human beings while they eat in a family restaurant. That moment may come, but it hasn't yet. It seems like people are prizing convenience and time. At least at this moment, people are making the choice. I'll pay a few extra bucks by just being able to push the button on my phone as opposed to having to do the human interaction that you just detailed. And it's not just ordering stuff. I know of a certain student who was actually in class online while in line for a sample sale.

I'm sorry, what? Think about that. Okay, Katty gets it. Literally in a long line for a sample sale while doing class. Got both done. First in line. Makes me dizzy. It's not okay. Must be a female to get both done. That was the pop-top. Multitasking. That is multitasking to

the nth degree. Still ahead on Morning Show, the college football schedule on Saturday was filled with rivalry games, including the heated iron ball. I still have a headache. You have traumatized my dog. Your dog is traumatized. You screamed so loud. The screaming at the end of this game. Just, yeah. The past, we've got a Paul Feinbaum on, as well as our good friend Pablo Torre. And we're going to talk about probably the most extraordinary ending to a college football game.

Since Doug Flutie's immaculate receptions 40 years ago. We'll be right back. That's all it is. There's a lot of airspace to cover for milroy still looking firing near corner touchdown alabama come on slate the noise in my house the heck on hobs, my dog is still shivering in the corner. Jack and his dad Joe were so loud when this happened. Well, your poor dog had to hear me yelling at Alabama for

three hours. Yeah. And then the most extraordinary ending, that was the final touchdown of Saturday's extraordinary Iron Bowl between Alabama and Auburn. Alabama quarterback Jay Milrow finding his receiver on fourth and goal, Isaiah Bond, for more than 30 yards out. Let's bring in New York Times bestselling author and ESPN commentator

Paul Feinbaum and also host of Pablo Torre Finds Out on Metal Art Media, ESPN Radio's Pablo Torre. Pablo, I bet you didn't know, and this is why we bring Paul on, I bet you didn't know who was responsible for bringing Nick Saban to Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Yeah. The civic corruption here, the way that the tentacles for mourning Joe into Tuscaloosa are vast. And now that Paul Feinbaum is here to certify this, it's very clear, Joe, the sound I heard from New York on Saturday was obviously you and your Illuminati,

the Alabama Illuminati celebrating. Yes. Yes. New world order. All the tentacles, all the, the, the football trilateral commission. So, so Paul, let's start with, I'm looking at, I mean, come on, man. That was just crazy for those of us that are in Alabama or whose lives have centered around Alabama, first of all, this was Alabama's worst display all year other than against Texas. It was a miserable game for four quarters until the end. But, Paul, the end of this game, you've got to, as a football, as we've been following for such a long time, but I think about Lane Kiffin's The Kick, I think it was in 85.

Of course, The Kick 6, and then this play. For an extraordinary series, this is one of the most extraordinary plays. Yeah, and Joe, just not to get analytical here with a Harvard grad like Pablo, but you have to remember, as the play began, the ESPN analytics chance to win the game for Alabama was 0.01. You can't go any lower than that, even for a couple of SEC graduates like us, Joe. And it's just extraordinary to think that they pulled it off.

And what's even more amazing, and Joe, I don't mean to bring this up, but on the 10-year anniversary of the worst ending in Alabama history, when Nick Saban put a second back on the clock, tried a 54-yard field goal, returned by Chris Davis 109 yards, not only did it win the game for Auburn, it ended a chance for Alabama to three-peat, three straight national championships, which haven't happened since the late 30s. And, Pablo, if you want to know, even though I try to play it cool and go,

they're just kids, they're just kids, I will tell you, I have never seen the kick six. I've never seen it. When it was going on, by the time he got to the 50-yard line, I walked out of the room. You've disappointed Pablo. I have never seen that play. I turned my eyes.

It is pure filth. It is pure filth. But, Pablo, since you're a little more disconnected from all of this, first of all, you can talk about that extraordinary play, but also talk about the horrible, horrible decision that the college football leaders are going to have to make if Alabama beats Georgia this Saturday, and

they've got to figure out who's going to be in the top four. Who's not going to make it? An undefeated FSU, if they beat Louisville, an undefeated FSU, who's not going to be in there? Texas? Are they going to bump Texas? Because if Alabama beats Georgia, they will have beaten LSU. They will have beaten Tennessee.

They will. I mean, there's no way you keep the SEC out of these playoffs after the TCU debacle of last year. No, what I'll be doing as the college football playoff committee is mulling over this in their dark wood-paneled room behind locked doors is listening to Paul Feinbaum's show. Because the anger, the anger, I mean, you know this, you guys know this, the exorcism that this play represented for Alabama in the most haunted rivalry in sports, the Iron Bowl, leading to now, I want to put the name of that play in public because

Isaiah Bond mentioned it post-game. This is called the grave digger. That's what this play was. There was no rush from Auburn, but they practiced this play apparently on Fridays. They have never done it successfully to Isaiah Bond specifically, but they pull it off and the grave digging feels appropriate for an Alabama team that is now back in the conversation. And if Alabama with one loss does not make it into the playoff, riding these fumes, I just cannot wait for the callers. I cannot wait for the call. Well, the Paul, Paul. Yeah. I mean, I mean, Paul, first of all, you know, I made a mistake. I made a terrible mistake. I did something I've never done before on this show, and I've never said it because I just don't jinx myself.

But after the LSU win, I said Alabama's the best team in the country. They're just the best team. Milrow, running the ball the way he was, the defense, the run attack, the passing attack, they were the best team in the country. And then we went out against Auburn and played what I thought was a miserable, miserable four quarters. So, yeah, first of all, what happened? And then if Alabama beats Georgia, what's the committee going to do?

How are they going to keep out? Because you know they're going to have an SEC team in the top four. Well, first of all, this is not a vintage Auburn team. This is an Auburn team, Joe, that the week before lost to New Mexico State by three touchdowns as a 25-point underdog. And what's going to happen here, and I think, I don't know if Pablo agrees, the four best teams in the country are from two conferences, Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, and Georgia. And quite frankly, the rest of teams in the country are from two conferences, Michigan, Ohio State,

Alabama, and Georgia. And quite frankly, the rest of them, I would leave home, but that's not the way the committee doesn't think like that. They like to put the TCUs, they play games, and there will be an uprising. I shouldn't use that word on Morning Joe, but there will be in the college football parlance, and it will be ugly because Alabama will have beaten the number one team in the country. Listen, Michigan had beat the number two team in the country, so that's fine. Georgia, by the way, Joe, probably still deserves to get in. They've only won 45 of the last 46 games. But Pablo, allow me one second here if the speaker would cede me time. Joe was not kidding a minute ago when he said he got Nick Saban hired. I was part of that cabal. And Joe called me and said, enough of these trash hires at Alabama.

And he wrote an op-ed. He came on our show. And I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating now as Nick Saban perhaps is moving toward his seventh national championship at Alabama. Joe made it happen. The board of trustees paid attention because of Joe's connection to the school. And it did happen. And the night Saban was hired, I was on Joe's show. And we celebrated. We didn't realize what we were getting into, though, Joe.

Well, no, we had no idea. And I will say, at the end of the first season, when Saban was 6-6, Paul made me call call and he said, are you still sure? I said, I'm sure. I'm absolutely sure this guy is going to win. So Pablo, I know that sickens you. Again, the tentacles of warning Joe. It's just amazing what I've wandered into here. The power, the seeds of power. Yeah. Negative power. So Pablo, let's talk really quickly about the committee. Yeah.

Because I will say when they picked TCU, and listen, people were insulted. I know these are all kids. I would be so thrilled if any of my kids played on any college football team if that's what they wanted to do. So, I take nothing away from TCU, last year's TCU team. But compared to Alabama, they were a high school football team. They just were. And by the way, I will say this, too, just so I offend all of my viewers across. There's some parts of the country not yet insulted. So please proceed. Let me insult everybody in the Midwest. When and Paul, I don't know if Paul will say this on TV.

I will. When I watch Big Ten teams playing that don't have C.J. Stroud on there, I go, I go, oh, my God, they're so slow. They can't get to the corners. No, they play in slow motion. I'm serious. They play in slow motion. You look at Washington. You look at Oregon. You're like, okay, those teams, I don't want to cross those teams. But you look at a Big Ten team and you're like, oh, just seriously,

I'm going to the other room and watching paint dry. So that being said, the committee screwed up with TCU badly last year. It cost them ratings. It cost them credibility. It cost them money. Are they going to make the same mistake this year and go, oh, FSU, a team that lost, that almost lost to a horrible Gators team. We're going to put you in FSU without your star quarterback, or are they going to actually try to get the four best teams instead of TCU-ing us again? Yeah, I just want to point out that thank God Morning Joe does not count on the swing states that those Big Ten teams resided for its electoral votes, right? So remarkable trolling by you.

The idea that still today, three yards and a cloud of dust. It's not trolling. Joe, Joe, Joe, I want you, I want you in the room with this committee to your point because this committee this year, and I think Paul would agree on this, now it's difficult, okay? The TCU example was infuriating for the SEC, for Alabama to be clear, and the results. For everybody.

It borne out that the process maybe wasn't the right one. I consider that a fair point. But right right now you actually have a hard decision and in these rooms you have athletic directors you have former players you used to have condi rice literally condoleezza rice was a member of this thing they try to do diplomacy in a way that embodies the breadth and the geographic diversity of a sport that I agree right now is concentrated in the marquee names that allow the SEC exceptionalists to say, what the bleep are you guys even wondering about? It's always been exceptionalist Paul and Pablo. Seriously, you all you have to do is look at the talent level.

My son, Jack, will constantly say, oh, there's so-and-so while we're watching NFL games, while we're watching Red Zone on Sunday. And I go, oh, wait, he went to Alabama. Oh, yeah, he went to Alabama. I literally can't keep up. I literally can't keep up, Paul, with a number of Alabama players and Georgia players and LSU players and Tennessee players in the NFL. I can name you one Big Ten, like, first rounder from Michigan, you know, and that's it.

Other than C.J. Stroud, of course, the greatest quarterback of our time. Yeah, I mean, we got through watching last night Jalen Hurts pull off that incredible comeback from Philadelphia when the Eagles beat the Bills. He got beat out in Alabama. He had to leave. That's how good the SEC is. By another NFL quarterback, yes, Tua, exactly right. I wasn't going to mention that.

No, well, you know, just a small, small footnote to the Saban enterprise, yes, Tua, exactly right. Why was he going to mention that? Well, you know, just a small footnote to the Saban enterprise, yes. And speaking of which, Pablo, what an ending to, again, we're Southerners here, Pablo, I'm sorry, so we talk about college football 99% of the time, the NFL 1% of the time,

but talk about the Eagles-Bills game. What an incredible game. i love talking about this game because amid all of the superstars sec alumni included jake elliott is a guy who plays a position that people do not consider actually an athletic position he plays kicker and so this game comes down to this dude of course jalen hurts doing all of this in overtime to win. But the reason they got to overtime was because Jake Elliott drilled a 60-yard field goal in the rain, enabling the Philadelphia Eagles to be, I believe, the one team we can safely say this year, Joe, is actually good. The NFL is full of mediocrity.

It is full of teams that see, even the Chiefs, right? Nobody looks as good as we want them to be, except for this team, because they seem to have players who, like the aforementioned Alabama quarterback, Jalen Milrow, actually step up when their life is on the line. And we saw Jalen Hurts, another Alabama grad, do that again. Yeah. And finally, one final question to both of you. Taking a quote from a former political person who got hammered. Where does Russell Wilson go for his apology? Morning, Joe, I believe is the answer at this point.

If you have grievances to air people people to put a finger in those eyes. Russell Wilson has been better. Better, Joe, I agree. Better than anybody thought. Certainly through three weeks of this season. All right. All right, Pablo Torre and Paul Feinbaum. Thank you both very much. Paul, if you can come on again either Friday before all the championship games

or Monday to wrap it up. We'd love to have you back. Thank you, Joe. Can't wait. I'll tell you. All right. No, Pablo, we'll get you on too because... We love Pablo. Actually, when you come back, you will hear how I helped

complete the deal to create the railroad going from coast to coast. I nailed the final statement. Statues will be built about this. Yes, exactly. Thank you, gentlemen.