Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/28/22

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Trump hosts white nationalist for dinner

I know as U.S. attorney in Arkansas, you personally prosecuted white supremacist groups. What's your reaction to seeing a former U.S. president associate with someone like that? Well, I hope someday we won't have to be responding to what former President Trump has said or done. In this instance, it's important to respond. And that is what it all boils down to. Republicans in a position again to have to respond to Donald Trump's embrace of white supremacists and anti-Semites. We're going to break down the controversial dinner at Mar-a-Lago as the Republican Party finds itself in a familiar spot with former President Donald Trump.

Well, you know, the thing is, really quickly, I mean, Governor Hutchinson, who's spoken out time and again in very important ways, he goes back to a familiar refrain about Republicans and always saying, oh, why do we have to respond to this? Why do you always ask me questions about Donald Trump? Well, I's the leader of your party. I'm not speaking to AC here because he does speak out. But to other Republicans, because he's the leader of the party. Yeah, it's because he had dinner over Thanksgiving weekend with not only a white supremacist, but a neo-Nazi, someone who said the most vile things about Jews and and and and other Americans with a a with Kanye, who has said one anti-Semitic remark after another. And and so why do they have to respond

to that? Because he's still the leader of their party. And it's very easy. It's very easy for Kevin McCarthy to say he should not be sitting down with white supremacists. But it's not easy because Kevin McCarthy may owe his speakership to people who also hang out with white supremacists, who go to where there are groups of white supremacists and give speeches. So, you know, Trump's actions spoke volumes, but they're volume. It's a reality. It's a truth that unfortunately we've all had to absorb a long time ago. And the Republican silence, well, that speaks volumes too. It's a cowardice, unfortunately, that we've seen for five, six years. But this actually takes it to yet another level. Trump goes even lower here. And if Republicans are looking around and trying to figure out why they had everything

lined up for the biggest red tsunami since 2010, since 1994, a year I know something about. I mean, it was lined up. They should have had a massive, like Kevin McCarthy said, they should have picked up 60 seats. It's what he said. They were going to pick up 60 seats. You don't know why that's not happening because you just won't look into a camera and say, we denounce white supremacy. Donald Trump should never have had dinner with those two people. And he owes us all an apology. Just say that. It's over.

They want to. Then you can go back and talk about Hunter Biden's laptop or whatever you want to talk about that. I guarantee you most of America that decides elections don't want you to talk about. If you want to talk about Hunter Biden's laptop, go go to it. But first, you got to condemn the Nazi in your midst that's sitting down with the president of the United States. We'll have more on that question as to why they won't and on that crazy dinner at Mar-a-Lago. Plus, former Vice President Mike Pence refused to sit down with the January 6th committee.

But is he willing to speak with Justice Department investigators looking into efforts to overturn the 2020 election? We're going to have new reporting on that. And that would be quite something. That would be actually very significant. That would be more than the committee because the committee gets disbanded. We'll also have the latest from Georgia, where early voting is underway right now. Can you believe the number of people out there making long lines showing up? They're also going to play the new ad from Senator Raphael Warnock, where he basically lets his opponent, Herschel Walker, do most of the talking in the entire ad. In politics, it's pretty smart to not hand the microphone to your opponent. Well, in this case.

Then your opponent frames the debate. Right. Not in this case. In this case, please buy Herschel Walker a lot of microphones. Let him talk and basically destroy himself. Well, the ad is incredible. We'll show it to you. Plus, we'll go live to Beijing amid major protests and calls for China's president to step down over the country's constant covid lockdowns. And after being trapped for seven

hours, a pilot and passenger have finally been rescued after a small plane crashed into power lines in Maryland. We'll have the latest on that incredible rescue. All right. Former president and current presidential candidate and leader of the Republican Party. Donald Trump is now distancing himself from a known white nationalist after hosting him for dinner at Mar-a-Lago last week. He had dinner at his club on Tuesday. Trump welcomed anti-Semite Nicholas Fuentes to his Palm Beach estate. That's where the documents are. Yeah, our main secret. OK. Also, there was Kanye West, who has recently faced backlash for anti-Semitic comments of his own, as well as a former Trump campaign staffer. A source tells NBC News that Trump was very impressed with Fuentes, a Holocaust denier,

who the former president now claims he did not know beforehand. Just like he didn't know David Duke beforehand. Just like I think it was Jake Taffrey. So I don't know anything about the Ku Klux Klan. Like, oh, you want me to criticize groups I know nothing about? Of course, he knew David Duke. He had condemned David Duke for 20 years before that. And now he's claiming he doesn't know this one. Do people just wander in to Mar-a-Lago without secret service? Well, that would be very bad if you had classified documents there. Well, but also with secret service there, this isn't like they walked into an Arby's. They now have secret service.

It's not like Kanye walked into an Arby's, sat down there as Donald Trump. Say, hey, Donald. Hey, I brought a friend along. No, it's not an Arby's. It's a place where it's very secure. Planned out. It's all planned out. They've got Secret Service

there. They know everybody who's coming. So this whole idea is, hey, he just showed up and I'm at Arby's and they hand me a sandwich. No. No. They knew all along. As for West, NBC News has learned that Trump became angry. This is good. When this is a good part. When the rapper asked the 2024 presidential candidate to serve as his running mate.

Yeah. For West's own newly announced presidential run, according to a source and West himself, Trump began insulting West's ex-wife, Kim Kardashian. I can't believe. Is this really? OK, this is this is our reality, too. This is what happens in Donald Trump's world and which. Yeah. OK, great. It's great for for headlines.

But Republicans, this is this is why you lose your guy. This is why you lost in 2017. This is why you lost in 2018. This is why you lost in 2018. This is why you lost in 2019. This is why you lost in 2020. This is why you lost in 2022. Instead of picking up 60 seats, you barely squeak in because the New York Assembly doesn't know how to redistrict. Well, apparently Trump got really mad and was

shouting at Kanye. Oh, wow. His opponent, his 2024 opponent, this is what you got. Telling him, quote, you can't beat me. Oh, my God. This is your Republican Party, guys, gals.

This is why you keep losing elections. I'm trying to help. The Trump why you lose. This is why you keep losing elections. Meanwhile, the Trump team. I'm trying to help you. You haven't listened for six years. I'm trying to help you. This is why you keep losing elections. It's true, actually.

You have been trying to help. I've been trying to help him out. What am I doing here? Please don't put your hand. What do I say? Please don't put your hand on the hot stove. 2017. Go 2018. Please don't put your hand on the hot stove. 2017. Go 2018. Please don't put your hand on.

Again and again and again. How many times do you have to put your hand on the stove? So, you know, it doesn't work. Donald Trump burned you. You lose elections because of Donald Trump. You lose elections because you listen to extremists and wackos back in your district instead of middle class Americans, Main Street Republicans, independents, swing voters, people that want you to work together with everybody in Washington, D.C.

This dinner, I do think, was new level for Trump Republicans who might have been like, I'm not that comfortable, but I like him. I don't think I don't think the images from that from from that dinner with the Nazi. I don't think you don't think it's a little too much. A Nazi and an anti-Semite. I think that might even cause some real extremists who were like who want to, you know, who are still obsessing about Hunter Biden and think Joe Biden is a criminal. I think even them, it's too much. It's getting in the way of them doing people's business, investigating Hunter Biden's laptop. We actually, we're going to play a clip later on. You got the guy who's going to be, he's from Kentucky. The Hunter guy. The Hunter guy, the Hunter Biden laptop guy, who's going to be running judiciary, which I'm sure, yeah,

the judiciary committee was created so people could investigate Hunter Biden's laptop. But he said, when asked over the weekend on CNN, we'll show it. Yeah, we'll show it. But he said, no, I don't want to talk about the Nazi and the fascist and the neo-Nazi and the fascist. I want to talk about Hunter Biden's laptop, basically, is what he said. That's James Comer. He's actually, it's not judiciary, it's oversight. Oh, oversight. OK, even better. So can you imagine that? I don't want to talk about the guy who's eating with Nazis and fascists and white supremacists

and neo-Nazis for dinner. I want to talk about Hunter Biden's laptop. Can you imagine? I just can't, that mind. Can you imagine? That's the worldview of the people who are now running the house of representatives good luck republicans good luck america meanwhile the trump team is doing damage control in the wake of last week's dinner now trying to put some

distance between the white nationalist and the former president. Trump took hours to even acknowledge the dinner before later using his social media platform to write, quote, Kanye West called me to have dinner at Mar-a-Lago. Shortly thereafter, he unexpectedly showed up with three of his friends whom I knew nothing about. That is not true. You can't get close to Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago without the Secret Service knowing everybody who's coming in. However, three sources familiar with the dinner tell NBC News that Trump, at the very least, knew one of the three friends brought to Mar-a-Lago by West. Karen Gierno was the Trump campaign's Florida director in 2016. And those sources say Trump knows her by name and sight. Trump later corrected himself in another post, acknowledging he knew at least one of the people

brought to dinner that night and added that West is a seriously troubled man. Because he wants to run against him. Not because he's been spewing anti-Semitic remarks. So Trump, Trump doesn't say he's a seriously troubled man when Kanye is spewing anti-Semitic remarks, but he does when he decides to run against him for president. Well, and here's the thing. Okay. Let's try and let's try and believe his words. And a white supremacist walks into Mar-a-Lago for dinner. And you don't think someone is going for a joke. A white supremacist walks into Mar-a-Lago. It's not a joke. It's not a joke. Well, of course they did. And so the minute you find out who it is, you say, I'm sorry, sir, you need to leave. That would have been a good thing to do, especially

with the white supremacist. What everybody would do. Hugo Lowell of The Guardian reports that while Trump's team has urged the former president both publicly and privately to denounce Fuentes, the former president made clear he does not want to criticize him for fear of antagonizing a devoted part of his base. He will not criticize a Holocaust denier. He will not criticize a guy who has said some of the most heinous anti-Semitic remarks, anti-Jewish slurs. He won't do that because he doesn't want to offend some of his supporters. I was about to ask a question, who thinks that way? But we know who thinks that way. And it's why he keeps losing elections and why his party keeps losing elections. Let's bring in NBC News senior national political reporter Mark Caputo, also the founder of the conservative website, The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes, the host of Way Too Early, White House bureau

chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, and the host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, and the president of the National Action Network, Reverend Al Sharpton, Charlie Sykes, our former tribe. What say you? Toxic. How horrible, huh? Well, as you point out, we've been here before, haven't we? This feels very, very familiar. But, you know, the thing about Nick Fuentes is that he's not your garden variety bigot, any semi. He is a Holocaust denier who has compared Jews who were murdered by the Nazis to burned cookies. But what is interesting, of course, is the two points you just made. I mean, number one, the silence of Republicans who have this muscle memory of acquiescence, you know, don't dare criticize, you know, the former guy. But again, look, they've done this again and again. It's sort of baked in. Right. If you support Donald Trump, you look the other way from Charlottesville, you look the other way when he hung out with notorious bigots. But it's also interesting,

and I think a real tell, that Donald Trump does not want to criticize Nick Fuentes, who, by the way, is so deranged that people like Michael Lindell look at him and go, wow, that guy's crazy. He is so far out there that Donald Trump does not want to criticize this white supremacist, white nationalist holocaust denying neo-Nazi because he understands and he's been playing this game, this winking, you know, wink, wink game with the alt-right, with the extreme right that he does think is part of his his base. And so Republicans have to decide, you know, do they want to continue to do they want to continue to be complicit in all of this? And because they've decided this over and over and over again, by the way, it's not just about winning. It's also just a fundamental

test of morality. Like, what do you stand for? Who are you? Charlie, this is what I don't understand. Charlie, they failed that a long time ago. They failed the basic test of political morality a long time ago. When they went along with this guy and his Muslim ban, they went along with this guy, post-Charlotte Stone. We could go down the list.

So I'm kind of like, I always say I'm a Baptist. I don't really care why people are converted. I just want them converted. You know, just when they played Just As I Am, 18th verse. If you're walking down, I'm just as happy as if you walk down on the first verse. What I don't understand, though, we know they failed that test. We know that Paul Ryan, a guy that you and I both have known a long time, love, respect, respected politically before. I'm speaking for myself here. On one day, he says Trump's a racist. On the next day, he endorses him. Right. OK, so we got that. They lose on the morality front. I at least would think that like Paul now, they would go, wait a second, we can't win when this guy is leading the way. We can't win when we're silent in the face of

white supremacy, in the face of anti-Semitism, when there's a guy that compares Holocaust. Right, right. So the question is, they lose in 2017 post Charlottesville. They lose in 2018. They lose in 2019 governorships in Louisiana and Kentucky. They lose in 2020 everything they lose in 2022. So, you know, my next question, OK, you're not going to be converted for the right reason. When are you going to be converted for the wrong reason? Because you're going to stay out of power. Like, why can't I thought Republicans were supposed to be sinister and smart and know how to play this game? Well, basically, they're sitting around waiting for somebody else to take care of this for them, aren't they? They're hoping that something is

going to come along. You go first. You do this. By the way, if you want an interesting little historical tidbit about the failure, one of the few Republicans that spoke out against this over the weekend was Chris Christie. And by the way, you know, congratulations to the former governor. But if you look at the video of Donald Trump lying and denying that he knew who David Duke was, guess who's standing right behind him? So there's a lot of history here that now that OK, now that we're losing, we might speak out. But there are very, very few. And I guess this is that this is the habit, the fear, the the the assumption that, you know what, if he keeps going this way, he will implode. Don't help him by saying anything about him. But it is extraordinary.

Members of Congress, his rivals for the 2024 nomination. And I want to stress that also this is and I think you mentioned this before. This is a little bit next level because Nick Fuentes is such an overt neo-Nazi. But it's also next level because there are a lot of people in MAGA world who know who Nick Fuentes is, who despise Nick Fuentes. He's a very, very divisive figure. But the notion that Donald Trump did not know who this was or does not understand what he's doing, I think, is incredibly naive. I think it'd be very hard for anyone to believe that at this point. What do we know, Mark Caputo, about this dinner, about any interaction that Trump had with Nick Fuentes? Well, what I can tell you from my reporting,

Milo Yiannopoulos, who was a far right provocateur from 2016, he's now the de facto, quote unquote, campaign manager for Ye, Kanye West's not yet existent and maybe never existent presidential campaign. He said he was the one who kind of set this up. He had this advisor of Trump's from 2016, Karen Giorno, pick up Kanye West, Nick Fuentes and a third person from the Miami International Airport, drive them to this dinner. At that point, they sort of talked their way in. According to them, Kanye was on the list. The three others weren't. And then at the dinner, that's when things got heated, as you described earlier, when Kanye West decided to sort of troll the troll and tell Donald Trump

that he should be his running mate. That made Trump rather angry. Now, from what we understand, Nick Fuentes did impress Donald Trump, according to people at the dinner that I've spoken to, which includes Nick Fuentes and Karen Giorno. They didn't discuss anti-Semitism, racism or the like. Instead, Fuentes laid it on kind of thick and praised Donald Trump as his hero, said he loved Donald Trump, but he thought Donald Trump was erring and Donald Trump was too much now a product of the establishment. And so this Kanye faction allegedly showed up with the idea that they wanted to bring Donald Trump back to the Donald Trump of 2016, not the plastic Donald Trump of the establishment that they say he's now become.

So it was a really sort of bizarre dinner. It's probably one of those things all of us wish we could have witnessed in some way, shape or form. It eventually ended, as you had noted, with Donald Trump sort of yelling at Kanye West and Nick Fuentes saying, hey, you're a smart guy. You're working for Kanye. There's no way he can beat me. You know that. And then he also wound up insulting Kim Kardashian, which Kanye West objected to as well. So, Reverend Sharpton, it occurs to me that the best way to avoid having dinner with an anti-Semite you don't know is to avoid having dinner with an anti-Semite you do know, which Kanye West is. And Donald Trump knew who he was and brought him into this table and exposed with Fuentes, who, of course, has discussed, believes all sorts of abhorrent things. But this is also

a familiar pattern from Donald Trump, where it's not just David Duke. It's the Proud Boys. It's QAnon, where he claims to have no knowledge of a group that espouses hateful rhetoric because he doesn't want to condemn them because he knows that a lot of their members support him. How worried are you, though, that he's giving another platform to hateful, terrible, violent rhetoric at a time where we see hate crimes on the rise? What concerns me is that the Republican Party has not just unequivocally across the board denounced Donald Trump for doing this. You have to look at the fact that, you know, I've had gatherings, dinners, get togethers with former presidents and Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. And Joe is right. You can't get in their presence without being cleared. I don't care if you showed up and they cleared you an hour after you showed up or not. Their signal is given. He knew he was meeting with the fact that this guy could say, I admire Donald Trump and he's a neo-Nazi. Well, why did he admire Donald Trump? And I want to bring him back to the 2016.

So who was the 2016 Donald Trump in this guy's mind? And here we are, what, two, three days later, Donald Trump has yet to denounce this guy, yet to denounce what the guy stands for, yet to denounce anti-Semitism or racism. So how much does the Republican Party need? I'm talking about those that we consider mainstream Republicans. What kind of evidence do they need before they denounce this kind of open bigotry and bias? That's what concerns me. We know who Donald Trump is. We know who Kanye or Kanye or Ye or whoever he is today.

We know who he is. But who is the Republican Party? I think that's the question that we have to ask as they now become this slim majority of the House of Representatives. All right. We'll return to conversation, but we want to get a look at some of the other headlines making news this morning. Now to an update on last week's deadly mass shooting inside a Walmart in Virginia. The FBI and Chesapeake police finished processing the crime scene over the weekend. Authorities say it is up to Walmart to determine what comes next for the store. Six employees were shot and killed on Tuesday night inside a break room by a supervisor

at the store. The youngest victim was 16 years old. Police say the shooter legally bought the handgun he used the morning of the shooting. He also left a note writing that he was led by Satan and planned to target some employees. Coworkers have said the shooter was a difficult person to work with and known for being hostile with employees. And two people were rescued early this morning from a small plane stuck roughly 100 feet above the ground after it struck a high voltage transmission tower near Gaithersburg, Maryland. The two suffered serious but non-life threatening injuries and were rushed to trauma care just after midnight. The single engine plane crashed into the tower last night, leaving thousands in the area without power. Officials said the rescue was difficult because each power line near the plane had to first be tested to ensure it wouldn't harm anyone.

First responders, especially, or the two people on board the plane. And comedian Jay Leno returned to the stage for the first time since suffering serious burns to his face. The 72-year-old performed at a Southern California comedy club for a sold-out show last night weeks after being burned in a car fire. The avid car collector was seriously burned on November 12th in his Los Angeles garage when a vintage car he was working on erupted into flames. The former Tonight Show host spent 10 days at a burn center where he was treated for second and third degree burns to his face, chest and hands. Jay Leno, though, letting everyone know he's OK, he's going back on stage and still ahead on Morning Joe. Chinese President Xi Jinping is facing significant criticism for continuing his zero covid policy. We'll have a live report from Beijing amid mass protests over new lockdowns.

Really surprising images out of China, all across China. Also ahead, a Republican governor calls out the RNC chairwoman for disappointing results in the midterms. A flop. We'll play for you those comments. Plus, the January 6th committee is wrapping up its work ahead of a change in power in the House. But it appears not everybody is happy with chairwoman Liz Cheney's influence over the final report. That new reporting is straight ahead. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Welcome back at half past the hour, a rare scene in China where major protests erupted over the weekend against President Xi and the government over pandemic lockdowns. In Shanghai, the situation has escalated where police were seen at times shoving demonstrators. Large crowds have gathered in roadways across multiple cities calling for an end to continuous lockdowns for repeated COVID-19 testing.

Some are even demanding that President Xi Jinping and Communist Party leaders step down. Critics of China's zero COVID policy argue the social and economic toll of extreme lockdowns are more costly than the benefit of trying to contain the virus. Joining us now from Beijing is NBC News correspondent Janice Mackey-Frayer. Janice, thanks so much for being with us. The New York Times article this morning is fascinating. It talks about how she and the government, they've been so successful at being able to block off channels that would usually lead to collective engagement. But what they've done with their COVID lockdown, they've united farmers with students, with entrepreneurs, with everybody across the country. How serious is this?

Well, it's effectively it puts everybody in the in the same covid boat, whether they're a migrant worker from the northeast or a financier in Shanghai. After nearly three years of pandemic rules, everybody is feeling worn out by this. And there was the expectation that things would get better, that things would ease, that China would open up even a little bit after the 20th Congress, once the Communist Party had its leadership established. And that hasn't happened. If anything, the attempts to ease the COVID rules have led to them bearing down even more. We're in effectively a lockdown here in Beijing. Restaurants are closed. Businesses are closed.

People are being told to work from home. My kid is off school again for the third school year. And people are fed up with this. So this has been building over months. What it needed was a catalyst. There was this deadly fire in Xinjiang that killed 10 people. And people saw that as a reason to take to the streets. And they're calling for an end to these restrictions.

They want freedom from it. They want to be able to live normal lives. They see the rest of the world doing it. It's at the point where state television is having to cut away to different scenes at the World Cup broadcast because they don't want to make people here angry at the fact that all of the fans in the crowds aren't wearing masks anymore. So there is widespread discontent, and that is now spilling out into the streets. People want change, and Xi Jinping has some hard choices to make, and they're going to need to be made soon.

The unrest is showing no signs of slowing down and could very well spread. And Janice, just truly remarkable, these pictures here, and amid some of the protesters calling for Xi to step down. What has been the Chinese government response to these protests? Have they said anything, done anything? Silence doesn't exist on Chinese Internet. media has not said anything except propping up the zero COVID policy, saying it is the path to successfully defeating the virus. The leadership has not said anything today. At the regular Ministry of Foreign Affairs briefing, officials were evasive and not directly addressing either

the protest or the growing anger against the zero COVID policy. I was at the protest in Beijing last night. It went until 2.30 in the morning. People were holding up the pieces of paper as a protest against censorship. They were singing the national anthem. And I'm not sure if you'll recall, but during the Shanghai lockdown, the national anthem became such a rallying cry for people during the lockdown that censors banned some of the lyrics from the country's own national anthem, calling on people to rise up if people really feeling a sense of unity, no matter what corner of the country that they're in, that they want to do what they can with their voices,

with this sense of action to try and get some of these restrictions reduced. And I just want to make one more quick point. When we talk about zero COVID here, what we're talking about is when there's the quarantines, there's the mass testing, there's the limits on mobility. But in China, when you get COVID, you don't take a few days off work and ride it out at home. When you get COVID here, they track you down and they come and they take you to a hospital and they take your family to a quarantine center, those container shipping container camps that we're seeing being built at a frantic rate. And you stay in the system until the system says you can leave. This is what people are

frustrated with as well. It's all of the limits on mobility. It's businesses being forced to close down, people losing money, people losing their jobs. But it's this sense of a loss of freedom that comes with this policy and people saying enough is enough, that it's got to change. NBC's Janice McEfrayer, thank you very much for your reporting. We appreciate it. And joining us now, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass, an NBC News chief, international correspondent. Keir Simmons joins us as well. So, Richard, you and I have been having this conversation for some time.

It started about three years ago when on the front of your journal, your most exclusive journal. Foreign Affairs is what you're searching for. Yeah, kind of important. Which you would never, never let me write an article for. That's true. But anyway,. Yeah, kind of important. Which you would never let me write an article for. That's true. But anyway. You have to subscribe first.

Talk about bands. I've got to pay my dues first and then subscribe. Exactly. So we joked about you had put the totalitarians, the authoritarians on the cover. And I said, Richard, that's going to be like Sports Illustrated jinx. It took three years. It took four years. But you and I've been talking over the past six months about the fact that authoritarianism actually, after having this moment three years ago, is on the decline. And you tweeted last night something beautiful that sort of encapsulates a lot of what we've been saying. A month ago, few would have predicted that Joe Biden would face fewer and less significant domestic challenges than his opposite numbers in China, Russia and Iran.

You say, of course, we have a great deal to work work on here still. But you are right. Right now, the authoritarians are on the run, aren't they? They are on the run. In part, they're the targets of what you might call populism and anti-status quoism around the world. But also, they're victims of their own doing. China's the perfect example. This zero COVID policy is failing, and it's not going to succeed. This rejection of the mRNA vaccines. This is this is Xi Jinping's policy. And you have a society that's increasingly fed up. There's there's no way out. The word dilemma, Joe, is overused. Xi Jinping has a real dilemma. He continues with this policy. He doubles down. And then what he has to do is increasingly repress the people.

But if he does this also, you're not only going to have protests, the economy is going to tank. But if he lets go and he has to then admit he was wrong and that's a precedent he's unwilling to set, because if he's wrong here, where else might he be wrong? And people might say, gee, if we only protest some other policies, we should get we can get some change, too. So he's actually created a real, real problem for himself, not just in the health sector, but more broadly, politically. But by the time you've consolidated as much power in your hands as he has, by the time you get an unprecedented third term, you forfeit the ability to blame circumstances or anyone else. This is now on him.

Well, and Keir Simmons, you look one self-inflicted wound after another. This zero COVID policy has been disastrous for China. The crackdown in Hong Kong, where he effectively took what the British built up as the economic hub of Asia. Now, over the past couple of years, he's destroyed that. He's declared war on Jack Ma and entrepreneurs in the best and the brightest in his own country. So what entrepreneur wants to be successful there? We could talk about the Ouijers, human rights. It's been one self-inflicted wound after another. It's been staggering. And yet the more mistakes he makes, the more power he accumulates.

Yeah. And, you know, I think you could borrow from the Clinton era. It's the economy, stupid. In the end, China, those 1.4 billion people have ridden a wave of economic growth and that has allowed the Chinese Communist Party to continue to hold on to power in the way that it has. But I think back to a visit I made to a Rimchi in Xinjiang before Covid when I was reporting on the Uyghurs there. And the message from Chinese officials there was, we are bringing economic prosperity. That was their answer to the huge questions about the treatment of the Uyghurs.

We are bringing economic growth. We are pulling people out of poverty. The trouble for China and for Xi Jinping is if the economy is slowing down, potentially driven by this COVID policy, what do you do then? What do you say to your people then? And Richard is exactly right that effectively what she has done is he's taken all the responsibility on himself, which means, of course, that anything that goes wrong, and it's the law of unexpected, of unintended consequences, anything that goes wrong, you know, reflects on him. But there's more to the challenge that he faces, too, because half of the people over 80 in China have not had a further vaccine, have not had a booster. So if he chooses to open up, the implications for older folks in China, particularly in rural areas,

is really serious. And in some ways, I think what's happening in China, you can see as a social battle between urbanites and rural, between generations. It is an enormous challenge for the Chinese Communist Party. And Jonathan Lemire, I remember talking to John Huntsman when he was ambassador to China. He was back in Washington visiting, sat down and just had a one on one with him. And I said, Mr. Ambassador, what is it that the Chinese Communist Party wants? Because this was at a time when everybody was saying China's growing, they're going to overtake the United States. Much has changed since then. But he said, what do the communists want there? He said, nine percent growth, because if they can grow the economy at nine percent every year, they don't have to worry as much about unrest across the country. And he said this 10 years ago. But if it falls to three, four, five percent, everything's up in the air and they know it.

Yeah. And that's the issue for them right now, is that the covid policy, as just documented here, is is tested the patience of its citizens. But they were willing to put up with it because the economic growth and it's a series of bad decisions. They've also bet on the wrong horse in the Russia-Ukraine war. They're still being supportive of Russia's efforts, really not condemning them like the West would like them to do. And they're paying potentially the economic price and risking real sanctions from the West. Richard, I want to turn to one of the other countries you mentioned in your tweet that Joe read earlier, another site of massive protests right now, and that is Iran. Obviously, no economic growth there. But give us a sense as to what you're seeing and how worried is that regime over protests that are erupting across the country and have for weeks now, but we're also seeing

some of it on the world stage at the World Cup. They are worried. Again, they're 40 years since their revolution, and you're getting a degree of public defiance, particularly from the women. They're not quite sure how to handle that. Normally, unlike the Chinese, where the Chinese response is to detain and use surveillance, to basically almost do decapitation of political movements, Iran is much more brute force. Problem is, how do you use brute force against women and not lose widespread popular support. They haven't figured it out. The economy is in a shambles. You've got a political succession, slow motion taking place at the highest level with the Supreme Leader. So you've got a lot going on. The answer is they

don't have an answer, to put it bluntly. It's almost true of all these authoritarian regimes. It's very hard under pressure to adapt, very hard to compromise because the fear is we'll admit we're wrong and we'll simply fan the flames of protests, we'll reward protests. So they always want to double down or triple down. That's what we see in China. That's what we see in Iran. The question is whether they can get away with it. Often they can at an enormous human cost, at an enormous economic cost, but it's not a policy solution. In neither country, particularly in Iran, you don't have it. My guess is, Jonathan, at some point, this Iranian regime is going to try to invent a foreign crisis in order to discredit

the opposition and to wrap themselves in the flag to possibilities. We're seeing it with some of their neighbors and so forth, the anti-Kurdish things in Azerbaijan, or conceivably the nuclear program. They may actually hope that the Israelis or the Americans or the Saudis or someone takes action because every day that goes by, we're not looking at it anymore. They are getting closer to having the prerequisites of a nuclear bomb. And my hunch is that they might not mind a foreign policy problem in order to distract attention from the streets. Keir, let me ask a question. As a movement guy here in the States, I'm looking at what's going on in China. I'm looking at what's going on in Iran. And what I'm looking for, is there an organized movement? Is there organized groups and either that could really bring this protest, this upheaval, this this content to a place where it becomes more permanent and not just a spontaneous reaction?

Because without that, you can end up fighting the autocracy and be replaced by someone that is even worse. And we've seen that in other places in the world. So are there organized groups and movements to guide this fervor? I'd add to that Russia, too. I think it's hard to tell in these societies, these autocratic, even totalitarian societies. There's that great quote from Lenin, sometimes nothing happens for a decade and then a decade happens in a week. That's the nature of these places. So the honest answer is, we don't know. We don't know how things will shift. And I think it's a really good question because in the same way that

the world has seemed to shift on its axis a number of times in recent years, that can happen again. Just what Richard was talking about, you know, will we see a crisis with Iran? What would that then mean for our relations with China, for our relations with Russia, those alliances that we're seeing build up? I think another issue here is the signs of tension and divisions within the alliances on our side, if you like. In Europe, there is deep disquiet about the Inflation Reduction Act here, about it's seen as a populist move. It's seen as something, it's seen as protectionism. And the Europeans, and I was talking to some lawmakers in Europe over the weekend, kind of scratching their heads saying, well, what do we do about this?

We can't shift this because of the politics within Washington. And yet this is going to damage our economy at a time when we thought we had a solid alliance with the US. So this is a marathon that we're in right now. I think that's one of the things that President Putin is banking on, for example. Certainly, she will be expecting this to be a long play, if you like. And we are running that marathon, too. And in many ways, the question is, who gets to the finish line, to extend the metaphor? We shall see. Keir Simmons, thank you so much for being with us.

Richard Haas would normally let you go, but I want to keep you around. We were going to talk some NFL. Maybe we could talk about the Giants, see how they did this weekend. By the way... And Keir can't? What are you saying? Don't ask me.

I need to ask you, Keir. Actually, stay there, Keir. I need to ask you about the World. Actually, stay there, Kira. I need to ask you about the World Cup. The World Cup I can do. The World Cup I can do. World Cup. No, it's so funny. Obviously, I can't believe it.

But everybody where we went, the restaurant we went to to watch the England-USA game, we were all cheering at the end for the draw because we stayed alive. I would guess the cheers weren't quite as loud in Britain, were they? No, I stayed at home and watched it at home and I was glad I did. It wasn't the best day for us, honestly. And trouble for England is, of course, we expect so much from our football side, from our soccer team. But now we have Wales next week. I'm going to be here in the US,

so I'm going to miss it. Hopefully that bodes well for the result. I think we're going to qualify. But, you know, it's the World Cup. One of the great things about the World Cup is just the unexpected results. You never quite know what's going to happen. It's been crazy.

By the way, as you know, I'm an Anglophile. Lemire, little too much Irish in him. He sent me this text after the match. He goes, England's all-time record against the United States. Revolutionary war. Loss. The war of 1812. Draw.

The 1950 World Cup, loss. 2010 World Cup, draw. SEC championships, you wouldn't know what that is. Zero to 30 for USA. Super Bowls, zero to 55 in the USA's favor. 2022 World Cup draw. It's Irishman in him. He's a Southie. What do you expect? You guys just brought me on for this, didn't you? For this moment. Yes. You got it.

All right. Coming up, a live report from Georgia where early voting is underway right now for the Senate runoff election. Plus, Senator Raphael Warnock's latest campaign ad brings Herschel Walker's speeches straight to the voters. We'll play for you their reactions just ahead on Morning Joe. Oh, look, there's your contact. Welcome back to Morning Joe. There's a beautiful Christmas shot of the White House.

The White House occupied by a man who does not have dinner with white supremacists, fascists, Nazis. Isn't that nice? Or Holocaust deniers. It's a good thing to know. That's good. You know, it's really, it's a nice change. It is a nice change. It is a nice change.

It kind of clears up the signs. Six minutes before the top of the hour. But anyway, Charlie Sykes, we have some developments in the fighter or the future of the Republican Party for you. First, the House House, OK, where Republican leader Kevin McCarthy is struggling to secure the 218 votes needed to become speaker. His path is complicated by the GOP's razor thin House majority and the small block of far right members who say they oppose him. It could be it could lead to the first floor fight for a House speaker in a century. And, you know, Charlie, this is why Newt left town. He still had

the majority of the votes in 1998 inside the caucus. But there were about five, six, seven of us that said would never vote for him on the House floor. Yeah, just had no choice but to leave. It looks like history may be repeating itself here. No, you think about how difficult the job is. You know, Newt Gingrich had to leave. John Boehner had to leave. Paul Ryan. And let's face it, Kevin McCarthy is not a political genius. I mean, if you believe Matt Gaetz, big question mark there, he does not have 218 votes. So the question is, how much does he have to give away to the Marjorie Taylor Greene caucus? And will he be able to bring along moderates? Look, this is one of those moments where be careful what you wish for, because Kevin McCarthy

is about to enter a world of hurt, whether he wins this or whether he's cast aside. Now, by the way, that this caucus, the MTG caucus, white supremacists, I mean, she actually embraced this guy. He went to the White House and other Republicans have as well. Trump apparently embraced him when they had it was fawning all over him. He was a smart guy until he found out he was for Kanye. So the Republican Party itself is also at odds over its future. Yesterday, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem suggested RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel should be replaced.

Duh. How should the GOP move forward? Listen, Sean, we need to win. I mean, that's just the fact. Our kids' future depends on it. So, you know, we really all have a responsibility to message what Republican policies bring to this country. And I don't know a party that can continue to lose like we have and keep their jobs.

Yeah, I mean, you know, here's the thing. It's kind of cold. But, you know, in the past, if you lost in politics at the top level, you go off, write a book, give speeches, you know, maybe, you know, set up your library. That's it. And the losers are out. Like, why? Why in the world would Ronna McDaniel, let's just, again,

I just say this, Charlie, because our Republican friends, I guess they're slow. They lost in 2017. Check. They lost in 2018. Check. They lost in 2020. They lost in 2022. Again.

Again. Ronna McDaniel has presided over one loss after another loss, after another loss, after why in the world would Republicans say, hey, let's take her into 2024? Well, look, I don't want to defend her. I think she's a deplorable failure. But as you pointed out, Joe, she is not the Republican Party's main problem. The Republican Party is losing not because of Ronna McDaniel, but because of Donald Trump and the fact that she basically is a wholly owned subsidiary of Mar-a-Lago. So, yeah, I mean, obviously, the Republican Party ought to move on from somebody who's presided over all of these failures. But the reality is they have a much bigger problem than Ronna McDaniel, and they won't solve their problem if they stick with Trump, even if they get rid of her.

And the problem is, again, she sucked up to him nonstop, which you don't have the independent voice of the RNC. You don't have people protecting the party. It's a wholly owned subsidiary of Donald Trump, a guy who's been losing for most of his life. Charlie Sykes, thank you so much. We appreciate you being here. And I'll tell you this, Charlie, because I love you. I'm going to spare you the Packers highlights. We'll talk to you soon.

We'll try. We'll see how Richard does here. Too soon. All right, let's go to Philadelphia. And the Eagles hosting the Packers on Sunday Night Football. Phillies' Jalen Hurts, former Bama guy, ran his way to the record book, setting a franchise mark for quarterbacks with 157 rushing yards in the game. And he threw for 153 yards and a pair of touchdowns for the 40-33 victory over Green Bay.

Man. Meanwhile, Packers QB Aaron Rodgers left last night's matchup in the third quarter with a rib injury as his team slumped to a seventh loss in their last eight games. It's amazing how badly the Packers are playing this year. Here's some of the other big touchdowns scored by winning teams across the NFL yesterday. A deep drop lets the routes develop. One of his first downfield shots has Garrett Wilson. Makes the under a miss.

Turns on the afterburners. He's gone. Touchdown Jets. Now Kareem Hunt tosses it back. This is Schwartz. Brissette leading the way. And Schwartz is in for a Browns touchdown. So the Bengals are in business.

Burrow uncorks it end zone touchdown T. Higgins Trump and company pinning their ears back Allen pocket squeezes able to get it out

that's the tight end Jordan Aikens he's lit up football is loose Miami with the recovery Howard in for the touchdown that will fake Heineke end zone got a man it's in for the touchdown. That will fake.

Heineke. Enzo. Got a man. It's caught for the touchdown by John Bates. And Washington regains the lead. 20 seconds to go. Lawrence throwing to the end zone. Marvin Jones.

Yes. They call it a touchdown. Herbert. They'll have his choice. And Eckler. Touchdown! Mahomes a lot of time. Now over the middle.

He's got his man. Kelsey at the 15. Gets a block. Inside the 5. And he's in. Touchdown, Kansas City. city first and goal garoppolo late pressure throws deflected jacobs jacobs with running room right up the middle jacobs is on his way the raiders are

gonna win this game the raiders win a game it's Jonathan LeMire, there's so much to talk to you about here. I mean, you've got Mike Falcons. You've got the Rams just starting off. Just Rams, horrible. Just like the Packers. Who would have seen that coming? You've got Jacksonville. What a game that was yesterday.

But I've got to take you to the lowly, lowly NFC South. Tom Brady, 5-6, and yet in first place. Because it is not only the worst division this year, it's the worst division, I think, in the history of the NFL. Yeah, they should probably disband the NFC South. We'd all be better off for it. Yeah, that was such an annoying loss to the Bucc, I think, in the history of the NFL. Yeah, they should probably disband the NFC South. We'd all be better off for it. Yeah, that was such an annoying loss to the Buccaneers yesterday where they just jumped out to early lead, sat on it for a while,

gave up a late touchdown, a fourth down play with like 10 seconds to go, and then not only lost in overtime to a pretty terrible Cleveland Browns team that lost their best offensive lineman while they were at it. So, yeah, the Bucs are still in first place, but they're under.500, and they're not exactly inspiring much the way of confidence. But it was a lot of interesting stuff yesterday. You hit on a few of it. Jacksonville, how about the fact they got that touchdown?

We just showed it late. With a few seconds to go, that brought them within one. Instead of just kicking the point and the tie, they went for two for the win, and they got it. Good for them for doing so. Richard is upset, as I am, about our team's respective losses on Thanksgiving. But we also see it's a strange and sort of down year for the NFL. Aaron Rodgers hurt.

You know, Packers aren't very good this year. One exception being, we showed it there at the end, Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs. They just keep right on rolling. They're pretty clearly the class of the NFL right now. Now, really, Aaron, I'll tell you what. We may be moving towards another Chiefs 49ers Super Bowl. The Niners looking really good. Week in, week out.

Richard, I know it was a bad weekend for you, obviously. Bad Thanksgiving. I'm sure you were throwing the turkey across. Giants lost. But from what I heard, it was the most watched regular season game in NFL history. The numbers this year are just extraordinary. The NFL more popular than it's ever been. And by the way, speaking of New York teams, how about them Jets?

They keep winning, too. Jets are seriously competitive, have one of the best defenses in the league. It was a rough weekend. The Giants were the only team in the NFL East to lose. But it's an impressive division. I think, Joe, by the way, relegation

might be an interesting innovation for the NFL. And you take certain teams and basically say, the other listening to you, I think we have a biblical reference today, Aaron's Rib or Spencer Tracy, if you prefer. And I think we can go with that, if you like. Okay. Richard Haas, thank you.

By the way, we talked about how badly the NFC South is. Alex just told me the NFC East and the AFC East, every team winning records. And what about Tua? Mika, this is what Mika's been talking about. I know. All weekend, she said, for people who said that Tua wasn't an NFL quarterback, Tua has proven you wrong again. Okay, great.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Over Thanksgiving dinner. Yes, I did. She said that to me. That was exactly what I said. Fantastic.