Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/29/23

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Hunter Biden agrees to testify publicly before GOP-led House Oversight Committee

Hunter Biden's more than welcome to come in front of the committee. If he wants to clear his good name, if he wants to come and say, you know, these weren't 20 shell companies, they actually did something. He's more than, he's invited today. Well, that's, well, he has to be happy because Hunter has said he's going to, Hunter wants to go and he wants to speak before the American people. Right. Wants to clear his name.

He's more than invited. Wants everybody to hear. And you know this poor Comer guy. He's been trying to get Hunter. He wants him because he keeps making a fool of himself because he says, well, we ain't really got nothing. But a squirrel fryer and a hound dog and says something like that, they got nothing.

What was the first one? Squirrel fryer. Remember? Squirrel fryer. Okay. Squirrel fryer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Squirrel fryer and ham and duck.

By the way, speaking of eating fried squirrel, Willie, did you hear about this new Liz Cheney book that came out? Wait. Yes. I mean. There's a lot there. But here's my favorite line from it, though. Okay. Kevin McCarthy justifying his trip to Mar-a-Lago

by saying three words that nobody's ever said about Donald Trump. He's not eating. Now, all I can say is this. If Kevin McCarthy's job was good to go down to Mar-a-Lago to get Donald eating again, well, he did a hell of a job. Yeah. Because that ain't been a problem since.

Go back. It wasn't really a problem before. You know, maybe if he said I got to go down to Morilago because Donald's cheating on his wind sprints, we'd believe that. But he's not eating. I don't believe it, Willie. What say you this early morning? We're getting those excerpts out of the book. And man, there's a lot of devastating stuff in there, but nothing more heartbreaking than hearing that Kevin McCarthy said he had to rush effectively to Donald Trump's bedside because, quote, he's not eating after the results of the election, after January 6th,

after having to leave the White House. It's like an ailing mother or father in their final days. She's not eating. We should surround her and be at her bedside talking about the former president of the United States not eating. And that is why a couple of weeks after January 6th, Kevin McCarthy rushed to Donald Trump's bedside at Mar-a-Lago and got him a fresh bucket of KFC or whatever he was. Well, I was just going to say, Willie, how comforting, how comforting that when he left, the last vision he saw was of an ailing Donald lying in that bed with an empty bucket of KFC over his head. Just on his tummy. I mean, well, the chicken was on his, yeah.

No, I mean, come on. He's not eating. You really want to go down to Mar-a-Lago that bad? Like, come on, Kevin. Make a better excuse than that, right? I just, I can't. All right. But anyway, on this Comer thing, as you were asking me, Willie,

I heard you in your head asking about this Comer thing. Yeah. He says, just come to our committee. So Hunter says, okay, I'll come to your committee. He goes, all right, I'LL COME TO YOUR COMMITTEE. HE GOES, ALL RIGHT, WE BETTER DO THIS IN PRIVATE NOW.

NOW THEY DON'T WANT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SEE WHAT HUNTER BIDEN HAS TO SAY. THEY HAVE BEEN SPRAYING B.S. FOR A YEAR ABOUT THIS GUY, TWO YEARS ABOUT THIS GUY, AND KEEPS GOING, OH, WELL, IF HE WAS INNOCENT, COME DOWN TO OUR COMMITTEE. WELL, THEY'RE COMING DOWN TO THE COMMITTEE, AND NOW THEY'RE LIKE, OH, NO, NO, if he was innocent, he'd come down to our committee. Well, they're coming down to the committee, and now they're like, oh, no, no, we don't want it to be public.

We don't want the public to see this. We're going to hide it behind closed doors. How pathetic. How pathetic that is. And Hunter Biden called their bluff. He said, all right, I'll come down there, but I'm not going to do it in private and let you spin what I said and cherry pick and misinterpret and spin out to the public and go on Fox News afterward and say things that I didn't say. Let's put it out in the open so the public can decide

for themselves. And now they're saying, well, I'm not so sure we want that to happen because the whole point of this exercise is for us to spin this and to misinterpret the information. By the way, Jamie Raskin put out a statement. He, I think, crystallized the whole situation. Of course, Democrat from Maryland, quote, let me get this straight, he said, after wailing and moaning for 10 months about Hunter Biden and alluding to some vast, unproven family conspiracy, after sending Hunter Biden a subpoena to appear and testify, Chairman Comer and the oversight Republicans now reject his offer to appear before the full committee in the eyes of the world and to answer any questions they pose. What an epic humiliation for our colleagues. And what a frank confession that they're simply not interested in the facts and have no confidence in their own case or the ability of their own members to pursue it. And quote from Jamie Raskin.

This is James Comer, of course, guys, the man who said, well, there's an awful lot of smoke here. No fire yet. Apparently still looking for that fire. Well, and Jonathan O'Meara, he's not the only one who said that. The Wall Street Journal editorial page said all smoke, no fire. Now he should keep looking to see if he can find fire. But right now it's all smoke, NOW, HE SHOULD KEEP LOOKING TO SEE IF HE CAN FIND FIRE, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S ALL SMOKE, NO FIRE. THAT WAS MONTHS AGO. AND HERE WE ARE AGAIN, COMER ONCE AGAIN MAKING A FOOL OF HIMSELF. I MEAN, HE CAN'T INVENT EVIDENCE. I KNOW THEY'RE ALL DESPERATELY TRYING FOR HIM TO INVENT EVIDENCE.

HE CAN'T INVENT EVIDENCE THAT'S NOT THERE. AND SO, AGAIN, THE ULTIMATE HUMILIATION, ALL WE HEAR IS HUNTER BIDEN, HUNTER BIDEN IS AFRAID TO TALK, HUNTER BIDEN IS NOW SAYING OKAY, THAT IS COOL, I AM COMING. AND NOW IT IS COMER AND HIS GANG THAT ARE RUNNING FOR THE HILLS. IT IS THE GANG. AND THEIR COON HATS HOLDING

A SQUIRREL FRYER IN THEIR LEFT HAND AND A SHOTGUN IN THE RIGHT. IT IS NOT THE RIGHT THING. IT IS THE RIGHT THING. for the hills. It's the gang. And their coon hats holding a squirrel fryer in their left hand and a shotgun in the right. Yeah, it's the gang that couldn't shoot straight when it comes to this investigation. Exactly.

Everything they've done, they've done poorly. And everything they've done, they've led to more infighting among Republicans. They have yet to find a there there. There's certainly been no link to any wrongdoing with the president

and even what they're suggesting about Hunter Biden. And let's be clear, Hunter Biden does face some criminal charges separate, though, to what the Republicans are investigating. And this has just been one colossal embarrassment after another. This is reflective of Hunter Biden's new, more aggressive defense strategy where he's like, yeah, I'll come. I'll come in public, but I'm not going to let you shape my words. I want everyone to be able to hear my account by myself. And I will say the other word that was racketing around last night, my texts and others, is why Comer is doing this about face. And that word is Benghazi. When they have tried to have public hearings before,

they have backfired. They tried to humiliate Hillary Clinton famously in that Benghazi hearing. And Hillary Clinton, of course, defeated them in front of the cameras broadcast live to the nation. And I think there are some Republicans who are fearful, you know, and the stakes on this one perhaps lower. But they've made Hunter Biden such a boogeyman for his father ahead of this reelection campaign. They're afraid that Hunter Biden could be up there and testify credibly and further tarnish their accusations. So we've got a lot more on this and other politics percolating this morning. And John Hellman and Jen Palmieri are going to join us in just a few minutes to talk more about this. But first, we're going to turn now to the prospect of more hostages being freed today from the Gaza Strip. It comes after 10 Israelis and two Thai nationals were brought back

into Israeli territory yesterday. In return, Israel released 30 Palestinian prisoners. The exchange with Hamas happened after both parties agreed on Monday to extend the humanitarian pause for an additional two days. The truce is now set to expire tomorrow. The terrorist group has freed 81 people since the temporary ceasefire began on Friday, while Israel has released 180 Palestinian prisoners. It is believed about 240 people were taken captive during the October 7th terrorist attack in Israel. The White House says eight or nine Americans are still being held hostage. Meanwhile, CIA Director Bill Burns is now in Qatar discussing the hostage release deal

and the potential for a broader agreement. Joining us now from Tel Aviv, NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel with more on all of this. Richard. So we are expecting to see more hostages released today because this is the last full day of this truce after it was extended for two days. The big question is what will happen after midnight tonight? Israel says that unless Hamas continues to hand over hostages, then it will resume its military campaign. And there are two groups in particular that want to see this ceasefire extended badly. They are the families of the hostages who want to buy more time

because so far this truce has been working it's been very uh delicate but generally it has been working with each day hamas releasing around 10 10 to 12 prisoners sometimes a few more and in exchange israel releasing about 30 or 30 plus uh palestinian prisoners. The people of Gaza desperately want this to be extended because during this last six days, they've been able to get some food aid. They've been able to go to their houses. We've been able to be in contact with people. Much of Gaza is destroyed, so their lives are still incredibly difficult. There's very little food. There's very, very little drinking water. But it is better than being under constant assault. The hostages hope that with each day,

there is the chance that their loved ones could be included on these precious freedom lists. For Israel, it is a simple matter. Israel says it will extend the truce as long as Hamas keeps releasing every day around 10 hostages, at least 10 hostages. But Hamas is running out of women and children. So now the negotiations are focused on convincing Hamas to start releasing male prisoners. And Hamas still has quite a few male prisoners. And there are other women and children in Gaza that they are held by other groups. So it is not hopeless. Hamas could be convinced to release some of the male prisoners,

particularly some of the male hostages, particularly some of the elderly ones. But so far, we have not seen any breakthrough. And there are deep concerns, particularly from the people of Gaza and those hostage families, that unless there is some sort of breakthrough at the end of the day today midnight perhaps tomorrow morning the bombing could resume again so richard is objectively good news of course to have hostages coming home particularly some of those young children and senior citizens we see reunited with their families but do you pick up any suspicion from israeli officials that hamas keeps extending these deadlines, extending them for PR on the one

hand, look, we're releasing hostages, but also to buy Hamas more time to reconstitute itself and to effectively stop the assault there. How is Israel looking at the balance of these two things? They're war on the one hand, and they're rescuing the hostages on the other. So Israel has several competing objectives here. Israel does want these hostages to be released. The Israeli government is under pressure. Prime Minister Netanyahu personally is deeply unpopular because the October 7th attack happened in the first place and because the hostages are still there. So as long as hostages are coming out, Israel does have an incentive to pause its military operations.

Its troops are already in Gaza, and there is no talk at this stage of those Israeli troops coming out. So Israel is preparing for a long-term military campaign. Israel says that its goal is regime change in Gaza. That could take years, might never succeed, but it is not a short-term objective. So as long as the hostages are still coming out, it seems that Israel is quite happy, not happy, but quite willing to allow this process to continue. The ball at this stage is really in Hamas's court. Can it gather additional women and children from other disparate groups inside Gaza? And is it willing to make the

decision to start releasing men, older men or the most sensitive group for Hamas, military age men and women who it considers to be soldiers. NBC News, true foreign correspondent Richard Engel in Tel Aviv again for us this morning. Richard, thanks so much. Let's bring in former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four-star Navy Admiral James Stavridis. He is chief international analyst for NBC News. Admiral, good morning. So how are you looking at this from a military perspective? First objective, get your people home safely if you're Israel. That has started to happen. They're trickling back over.

Many more still there, of course. But also measuring that against your objective to defeat Hamas, to uproot Hamas and to eliminate it so they can't do what they did on October 7th. Yeah, my sympathy is in this case is with the Israeli Defense Forces. This is an incredibly difficult military problem to begin with, to take down this city of 1.2 million in the north, gain control of it, destroy that tunnel complex. Now let's, oh, let's add a degree of difficulty, which includes hostages. And that's got to be the top of the priority list. And it will continue to be. And I suspect we'll see the ceasefire kind of move along with some additional releases. But make no mistake about it. As I talk to my sources, both in Israel, here in the United States, the Israelis are going to get back to business when the hostage situation goes stagnant. And at that point, they'll search for the hostages. They'll try and find them. They'll try and rescue them. But alongside that, Willie,

they're going to unleash additional military force. Final thought here. I believe that the Biden administration is working very hard to get the Israelis to dial down the lethality as it pertains to civilians. And that's smart for Israel. It's not only the right thing to do. It'll help them win the information war, which they are losing right now. So so, Admiral, based on your vast experience through the decades, based upon your the deep contacts you have with Israeli defense forces. Give us an idea of what the costs are and the trade-off. We certainly understand hostages are first priority. These are extraordinary scenes that we're seeing and such relief with every hostage being released. We can hold that truth right here

in our minds. But over here, how much how much does Israel's military situation degrade every day? This is fire goes on. And and and how strengthened is Hamas by each day that Israel delays in rooting up this terror network? Joe, you put your finger on it. And what is happening is always the way in war, which is that a ceasefire, a pause, however you want to categorize it, always favors the weaker side. And militarily, of course, that's Hamas. So what is happening in real time in those tunnels under Gaza, 300 miles of tunnels, Hamas is rearming, resupplying, maneuvering their troops around, building in booby traps, building in IEDs, improvised explosive devices, shielding those hostages. They are strengthening their position. So if you go to the Israeli Pentagon today, they are challenged deeply and they are thinking through their responses, Joe.

So I think the other question is, after the ceasefire ends, what does the military response look like? And I think it will not be the kind of heavy bombing that you've been seeing. I think it'll be more helicopters, less big bombs. It'll be more special forces, less tanks crunching through neighborhoods. You're going to see a shift in how the Israeli military approaches both to the north and then eventually they're gonna go to the south. They're not gonna leave south Gaza to become a replay at the end of the day. Well, and as you say,

the fact that it's gonna be more targeted is not only gonna be good for the civilians, it is going to be good for Israel. Strategically, it's going to be good for Israel. Diplomatically, it's going to allow them to continue without losing because I certainly, and I know you have too, but I've been hearing from across the Middle East, a lot of very nervous Arab countries that want to be Israel's allies saying this can't continue much longer. We will not be able to form these strategic alliances. So I just want to put this in its starkest terms. And I can ask you this as a military man.

Let's just be really blunt about this. We are seeing these scenes, these celebrations. Reunions. These reunions. They're extraordinarily, this needs to be done. This needs to be done. But I don't think anybody should make any mistake of it that giving Hamas this time is going to likely lead

to the deaths of more Israeli soldiers down the road. More Israeli soldiers are going to die, either because they're setting up landmines, either because they're repositioning in a way where they're going to be able to kill more Israeli soldiers. There is going to be that trade-off, and we need to understand that, right? Absolutely. And this is a big reason, frankly, that this administration's secret weapon, Ambassador Bill Burns, is out on foot patrol through the region. He's making exactly those points quietly behind closed doors. And we forget this about Bill Burns. We think of him correctly as a former

ambassador to Russia, deputy secretary of state, now director of the CIA. What did he do before all that? He's a fluent Arab speaker. He was posted throughout much of his career in the Arab world. He is quite extraordinary in a number of dimensions. He'll do everything he can behind closed doors in his role as director of the CIA to move this in a positive direction that, Joe, holds the balance, as you point out correctly, between Israelis' needs for their security and the humanitarian crisis unfolding. It's a very delicate dance, and I'm glad Ambassador Burns is there. Yeah, some of the best players in the foreign policy world on the field. Global tensions will likely be on full display today, with the U.N. Security Council expected to discuss calls for

a full ceasefire in the Middle East. Israel, of course, opposes that, while other countries, including China, have ramped up calls recently for a total end to the fighting. For more, let's bring in NBC News foreign correspondent Janice McEfrayer live from Beijing. Janice, what's at stake for China? Well, with this temporary truce in Gaza entering another day, there is this diplomatic push at the U.N. Security Council to have this pause become a fuller ceasefire. Leading this debate, this meeting, is China, which holds the presidency at the Security Council for one more day, at a time when Beijing has been trying to position itself as a global player. It still isn't clear the extent to which China ISRAEL IS A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES,

AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES,

AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART

OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES. A PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES. AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES. AND IT'S A PART OF THE UNITED STATES. doesn't mean that Israel sees China as an impartial player. Quite to the contrary, according to Israel's ambassador to China. I sat down with Erit Ben Abba yesterday for a wide-ranging interview on where the conflict stands and whether she sees China taking a more meaningful role. She has been openly critical of China for not condemning Hamas's October 7th attacks on Israel. And she says that China needs to be more balanced. Here's more of what she had to say. We thought that it would have been appropriate for China as a security council,

permanent member, to say something in the line that they condemn this terrorist organization, Hamas. This is something that we didn't hear. And also China is pushing very hard now for a ceasefire. A ceasefire is not what we need. Do you feel like China's taking sides? China has always taken sides. Since China has not expressed any, let's say, pro-Israeli statements in the last couple of weeks, apart from a fraction of statements here and there, so we don't expect, and China being the president of the United Nations Security Council this month, right? So we don't expect major statements in favor of Israel.

China has been pushing for stability. It's calling for a ceasefire. It's calling for a two-state solution. All very broad statements over the past several weeks that lack any specifics or solid solutions. China's foreign minister, Wang Yi, is in New York for this meeting. This is a last push after a diplomatic blitz by China around the Gaza conflict in the past several weeks. It's been heavy on calls for humanitarian aid and also heavy on criticism of the United States for what China sees as meddling in the Mideast, given its backing for Israel.

At the end of the day, most observers aren't convinced that China is going to make much difference on the ground. There's the sense that they're being opportunistic in trying to go for maximum international status with minimal cost, much the same posturing that we saw China take in its position on the war in Ukraine. Willie? Fascinating interview, and the Israeli ambassador not the only one frustrated with China here. NBC's Janice Mackey-Frayer live in Beijing for us. Janice, thanks so much. John, obviously, President Biden a couple of weeks ago in San Francisco

tried to prevail upon President Xi to step in a little bit, not just here on the Israeli question and the Hamas question, but in Russia and Ukraine as well, really to no avail publicly anyway. Yes, Xi Jinping really hasn't done that at all. Now that he hasn't, China has not gone so far as to aid Russia's efforts with like weapons, which had been an early concern of the Biden administration, but that he hasn't called, told Putin to knock it off either. And certainly he hasn't been deemed that helpful,

at least to this point in the situation in the Middle East, either to the frustration of the US, even though they are grateful that their relations with Beijing have warmed somewhat in recent weeks, including because of that summit. Admiral, I'm curious, though, as to what you think about a debate that's going on right now in Washington, which is the idea of putting some conditions on aid to Israel, which is something the U.S. normally does with other countries, but has not with Israel by tradition. President Biden over

the weekend seemed open to it. He entertained the thought, but then the administration kind of walked that back. We know there's a lot of political blowback from the left suggesting that Biden should do just that. What do you think of it? And knowing just from the military perspective of the importance of the aid to finally get there. I believe that the policy we pursued thus far has been about right, which is to be extremely supportive of Israel at this point. But we are now approaching a place where we can actually help Israel by quietly behind closed doors, starting to move toward that kind of conditionality. Again, I suspect that is happening and behind closed doors is a good place for it. Probably too soon at this stage to

simply say, hey, we're going to lock down aid to Israel until you do A, B and C. We're not quite there. We're moving in that direction. Hey, final thought back to China for one second. What she is doing here in terms of the Security Council and everything else. It's not just altruism. It's not just big power politics. It's also economics. China's economy is in the doldrums. And the worst thing that could happen would be a wider war in the Middle East. He wants to put a cap on this thing. I think you're going to see the Chinese lean in in a positive way over time. Well, and Admiral, that leads to the last question I was going to ask you, because we're talking about the dangers economically of a wider war in the Middle East.

We have seen the consequences of a war in Eastern Europe. I am curious, is it in China's interest and the United States' interest to come together as negotiators to bring an end to the Ukrainian-Russia war at some point? I know this is something that no one is supposed to say openly on TV or write about in editorials for fear of people saying, oh, wait a second, you're betraying the Ukrainians. Fact is, people in the Pentagon, as you know, almost a year ago were saying these lines are frozen. Maybe the spring offensive will work. We're very skeptical of that. This went all the way up the ranks.

They called this back in February. They were right. These lines aren't going to move much more. At some point, they're diminishing returns. Do we try to enlist China? Would you recommend that? Or do we start moving towards a negotiated settlement here that locks in lines that the Ukrainians may not like, but locks in security assurances for Ukraine that Putin will hate. Joe, as I look at it, I am continually reminded of the Korean War. We're really approaching that 38th parallel, that frozen line, and it is about to freeze as the winter comes. And when both sides hit that point, as you say, of diminishing returns, maybe they're already. That is the moment when a

negotiation does start to make sense. And the idea of U.S. and China working together to do it, I think, is not impossible. Better would be it comes under the imprimatur of the United Nations. But to get the U.S. and China to focus on this, we all ought to be looking for a solution in Ukraine, not a continuation of what we've got. All right. Retired four-star Navy Admiral James Stavridis, thank you very much for being on this morning. Hunter Biden may be heading to Congress. He said Hunter said he is willing to testify before the House Oversight Committee, but only if it's televised. He wants to do it in public, preferably nude in a hot tub, smoking an unfiltered cigarette with a hooker. But he's his legal team wants him to testify out in the open. But Republicans don't want that.

They don't want it on TV. They're like, if we don't do this behind closed doors, how are we supposed to make stuff up? Well, that's it. That's literally it. It's not even a joke. That is it. They have been trying to make things up and then blaming the media for not reporting the things that they've made up. And so, again, everybody said they've wanted this in the public. Everybody's asked, what does Hunter have to hide? Why won't Hunter testify? He now wants to testify publicly because I think he's tired

of all of the lies. He's tired of all of the insinuations. So now he wants to testify publicly. Again, let's underline this fact. These Republicans that have been asking for this I'M TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. I'M TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. I'M TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST.

HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST.

HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. HE'S TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF THE TEST. THE DOG NEVER KNOWS WHAT TO DO WHEN IT FINALLY CATCHES THE CAR. AND IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE FACTS ON

THEIR SIDE. THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE. ALL THOSE DIFFICULTIES THAT JIMMY KIMMEL WAS POINTING TO IN HUNTER'S LIFE, MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS, ADDICTION ISSUES, HE HAS WRITTEN ABOUT IN HIS BOOK. SO THEY CAN READ THAT AS WELL.

LET'S BRING IN MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle, former White House director of communications to President Obama, Jennifer Palmieri. She's co-host of the MSNBC podcast How to Win 2024 with Claire and NBC News national affairs analyst John Heilman is with us. So Mike Barnicle, I have quoted some lyrics before on this show, but never has the I'M GOING TO GO TO THE NEXT QUESTION. I'M GOING TO GO TO THE NEXT QUESTION. NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST JOHN HEILMAN IS WITH US. I HAVE QUOTED SOME LYRICS

BEFORE ON THIS SHOW, BUT NEVER HAS THE OPENING LINE OF SENDING THE CLOWNS BEEN SO APPROPRIATE WHEN THESE REPUBLICANS BEGGING FOR HUNTER BIDEN'S TESTIMONY, GET IT, AND NOW THEY SAY THEY And now they say they don't want it publicly. Isn't it rich? White clowns. Jimmy Kimmel nailed it.

Jimmy Kimmel nailed it. You know, if he testifies in public, they can't make it up behind closed doors. So here's Hunter Biden's deal. He goes to the Congress. He responds to the Congress, to the committee and says, you know, yeah, I'll testify. I'll testify in public. You can put me under oath. Ask me anything you want.

Ask me anything. And I'll reply in public, in front of TV cameras. Let's go. Let's get it done. And what happens, predictably, because there are a bunch of frauds on the committee, oh, no, no, we can't do that. We have to close the doors so we literally can make stuff up when we leave the committee room and speak to Fox News. You can't see it. They don't want the public to see this, Mike. What does that say?

Just their version. You know, it's like Colonel Jessup or whatever and a few good men. They can't handle the truth. That's their problem. They can't handle the truth. It goes against the narrative that they've established and tried to establish every day for months and months and months, Congressman Comer especially. I mean, some of the things he says on TV are absolutely just fraudulent. He makes it up, and he can't make it up if it's in public and we all watch it. But Jen Hunter called their bluff. He said, okay, I'll come testify, but I want everybody to hear it. Now they've backpedaled. But also, this committee hasn't even pretended it has anything on Joe Biden himself,

which ultimately is their goal to find the head of the Biden crime family, as they call it, implicated in some great scandal. James Comer keeps saying, well, we got a lot of smoke, which they've created. They're billowing smoke into the room. Which they're creating in their back room. But no fire. They're not even pretending they have evidence that Joe Biden did something. I mean, this is what happens when MAGA comes into, runs into reality. Like, you see it in courtrooms where grand juries have handed back indictments to indict the former president. You see it.

The best example, I think probably what they're scared of, it was 2015, October 2015, Hillary Clinton testifying before the Benghazi committee. The 11 best hours of the presidential campaign. You know, she's just like, what else do you have? That's what they're that's what they're scared of. And they have from the you know, it's been going on for almost 10 years from the Benghazi hearings to the special counsel that Trump appointed that looked at Hillary's emails for five years at the Justice Department to what Comer is trying to concoct in these hearing rooms. They're trying to manufacture falsehoods that they think will help them politically, and they can't actually ever, ever, ever get it over the line.

I'll tell you what, there's also this element of this, which is a little bit of a political high wire act with Hunter Biden, right? You know, you've read these stories, we've all talked about them over the last few months, where when you read these stories, Hunter Biden's going on offense, you know, Abby Lula and Hunter Biden going on offense, and the White House kind of going, oh, you know, we'd rather not have that. Yeah, okay, where, you know, the president loves his son, but, you know, how about like not going on offense? How about just staying quiet? And so to call the bluff is a dramatic gesture.

I'm going to go in and do this, get on national television. And could you imagine a better, I mean, it's not just that going in and performing well would be a huge triumph, but even better, which is to watch the committee kind of back away in the way that they have now. Hamada, Hamada, Hamada, Hamada exposed themselves. You know, the committee has no clothes here. The emper they have now. Humana, Humana, Humana, Humana exposed themselves. You know, the committee has no clothes here.

The emperors have no clothes. And for the Biden campaign, it must be, the White House must be a little bit of a moment of like, well, maybe Hunter Biden and Abby Lowell know what they're doing. Maybe they went on offense because they knew or suspected that this would be the outcome. And it always feels better when you're controlling

the situation, when you have agency and you're taking action and you're like they did. And I think Hunter testifying, Mika noted most of the things, like we've heard everything before because he's written about his books, he's done interviews, him sitting at this witness table

and Republican members of Congress giving him a hard time about these very difficult things in his life. Like that is not gonna be good for him. The book is just as, I mean, if you think about what's in the book, it's just hard to imagine, other than, like, Mike Barnicle's autobiography, it's hard to imagine anything more horrifying than the things he's already admitted to in that book. And so what could happen on the stand, in the committee room?

The thing that the committee should be most afraid of is that Hunter has done damage to himself. OK, the self-inflicted damage that Hunter has done to himself is awful. And he will he will cop to it. He will talk about it. The damage he has done to himself, I'm sure, is quite familiar to a whole host of families in this country. Of course. And this is another moment where Republicans have talked themselves into a corner. They have promised for so long to go after Hunter Biden, to go after this so-called Biden-Crown family, that they have forced their hand. Their base demands this. And if they want to ward off primary challenges from those further to their right, they have to deliver this, even if it ends up blowing up in their faces. Because they'll

accuse them of like, well, this was rigged. They'll come up with an excuse why it didn't work. They feel like they have to try. And remember, guys, a couple of star witnesses, one, a business partner of Hunter Biden's. He showed up and said, well, not didn't really do anything with the president. He put him on speaker phone at dinner a couple of times, but they never talked about business. And the other star witness, you remember, I think is still on the lam. Yes. The guy who's an agent of the Chinese government, a Middle Eastern arms dealer or something like that. Yes. That was a star witness who just vanished, and I think they're still looking for him.

Jet-started quarterback. And they tried to make a scandal out of that. Yeah. And then a couple of days later, we find out the reason he's vanished. He's an international fugitive, illegal arms dealer. He sold Iranian oil, smuggled it illegally to the communist Chinese. Like this is Comer's star witness. This is the Republican Party's star witness. I do want to underline, though, and for Republicans who have ears to hear, hear.

Because this is what Republicans, Mika, have overlooked from the start of this Hunter Biden hunt that they're on, to try to find something to attack him. Mike Barnicle just said every family. Yeah. Our most families have a situation, maybe not just like Hunter Biden, but a situation where they don't want their children attacked publicly. They look at Joe Biden as a father and say, you got problems with Joe Biden. Go after Joe Biden. Leave the kids alone. For the most part, that's the case. They still don't understand that in that first debate when Donald Trump attacked Hunter Biden, attacked Joe Biden's son, they don't understand how much that backfired.

There were conservative, hardcore, right-wing, pro-Trump conservatives whose articles I read, whose columns I read after that, who were outraged that Donald Trump went after another man's child. You know, voters know Joe Biden, and that's the problem here. To your point, every family knows or struggles with mental health challenges or knows someone who has struggled and suffered, as Hunter has, and has done things that are against their core values. Every family is struggling in some way. Another thing voters are, many of them, parents. And when you go after Joe Biden's son, as you pointed out, the reason why it was such a turnoff is because not only was it his son, it was his remaining son.

Like, how sick can you be, especially when you don't have any evidence? And by the way, at this point, with people like Marjorie Taylor Greene putting up pictures of Hunter Biden that she scraped off the Internet or whatever at his worst moments. I mean, what more does he have to lose than to go out there and say, OK, hit me again. Come on. Ask me anything at this point, you fools. And so they've called him out on it. The other thing is going after Hunter Biden is going after Joe Biden's remaining son. Good luck with that. Didn't work very well last time. And remember, it's Joe Biden's son. It's not Joe Biden, as opposed to Trump,

who has four indictments against him and $250 million civil suits and rape allegations. Well, the bottom line here is, what Republicans need to understand is is this backfires against them. It backfired against Donald Trump. Because it's cruel. It's backfiring against them. They can keep doing it if they want to.

If they want to help Joe Biden, if they want to make Joe Biden more of a sympathetic figure, they can keep doing it. But it doesn't work. That's the bottom line'T WORK. THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL BE FOLLOWING THIS. WE WANT TO GET MORE OF THE NEW REVELATIONS FROM LIZ CHENEY'S BOOK. CAN I ASK JOHN HEILMAN ABOUT THAT? WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF POOR KEVIN McCARTHY HAVING TO GO DOWN TO AN AILING DONALD TRUMP WHO HE SAID, I HAVE TO GO down there, Liz.

Trump's not eating. What do you make of those revelations that Donald Trump was in bed, depressed, and not eating? So his Kevin had to go down with a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. Mar-a-Lago? What the hell, Kevin? They're really worried Trump's not eating.

Oh, my God. Said nobody ever, John Hyland. I mean, you know, I think, you know, the Kentucky Fried Chicken, I think they got on site. He was personally taking down that cache of the Starburst with which of the orange ones, the green ones, were the ones he took out for Trump. guess you you take the you take the candy down there i mean look it's it's it's it's hilarious and stupid and obviously you know mccarthy was looking for a

reason to go to mar-a-lago he make he says some ridiculous thing liz cheney obviously is gonna make hay out of the fact that he said it but the point in it obviously is that it's so ludicrous that beyond the notion that you know the idea of trump point, I mean, it obviously is that it's so ludicrous that beyond the notion that the idea of Trump not eating is inconceivable, the idea that that would be a reason to go is ridiculous. But that if it were true, if true, your notion is you're Kevin McCarthy, you've been on the House floor in the hours after January 6th and you stood up and said the president is responsible for an insurrection against the American government, trying to, a coup, an attempted coup.

Kevin McCarthy can't upset it. And a few days later, he's now on his way to Mar-a-Lago, and his justification for it is the president's not eating. Now, again, take it at face value. At face value, it's the most, it's like, you know, Pinochet, he's feeling a little ill. He's not he needs the man's the man's losing weight dramatically. I think we'll go down and talk to Paul Pott. You know, it's like it's just an absurd thing on face value at face value to say. And it just shows how transparent it was that McCarthy went for the reasons he went, which was he saw the way the

winds were blowing. He thought, oh, my God, Trump's going to be powerful again. I have to go down there and pay obeisance to him. And of course, that was a huge moment in the in the winds were blowing, he thought, oh, my God, Trump's going to be powerful again. I have to go down there and pay obeisance to him. And, of course, that was a huge moment in the trajectory of the Republican Party post-January 6th. And to John's point, Jen, why was he allegedly depressed? Why was Trump allegedly not eating? Because his attempted coup failed. And so they had to go swaddle him and rock him and be at his bedside to get through the fact that he could not overturn the United States government, the results of an election. And what it reveals about

his ridiculous defense to Liz Cheney is that like he knows, you know, as he has known all along and there were moments where he stuck his head up and said so, he knows that what he's doing is wrong. He knows that what he's doing is dangerous to the democracy. So another scene that Liz Cheney, we're talking about this new book. It's not out yet. She'll be with us next week, by the way, here in the studio to talk about it. She describes a scene on Capitol Hill before the attack on January 6th, according to CNN that received an early copy of the book. Cheney writes how she was in the Republican cloakroom where members were encouraged to sign their names on electoral vote objection sheets for each of the states Republicans were contesting. Cheney writes most members knew it was a farce and another public display of fealty to Donald Trump.

She continues. Among them was Republican Congressman Mark Green of Tennessee. As he moved down the line, signing his name to the pieces of paper. Green said sheepishly to no one in particular, quote, the things we do for the orange Jesus. Quoting there, Joey, United States congressman talking about Donald Trump as they sign sheets of paper in an attempt to fraudulently overturn an American presidential election. And again, they know. They know. They know it's nonsense. They all knew it was nonsense. And John, John Lemire, you wrote the book on this. They knew this was nonsense. The current speaker of the House knew this was nonsense, but he actually led the attempt to overthrow the United States government. Let me say that again. The current Speaker of the House

led the attempt inside the House to overthrow election results of a presidential election, thereby overthrowing American democracy. He led it because, as Liz Cheney said, he was so desperate to be in Trump's circle. For Orange Jesus. He drafted the paperwork for the coup, is what the new speaker did. And this is so, it's a useful reminder of just how completely in Donald Trump's sway

these Republicans were. They were willing to let him throw this temper tantrum after the election. They were willing to, so they wouldn't have to concede. And this includes Mitch McConnell, who also let him go on for a long time before finally standing up to him. And then so many members of the House of Representatives were happily signed on to participate in his coup to go along with what happened on January 6th,

many of whom continue to do so even after the riots. They still went through with their objections and efforts to install fake electors. And really, now very little has changed, in part because of that Kevin McCarthy visit, where he went to Mar-a-Lago, and not just to deliver some McDonald's, apparently, but to apologize.

He apologized to Donald Trump for speaking harshly to him on January 6th. And that was the beginning of Trump's rehabilitation within the Republican Party, and we have now seen he is well on his way to being their nominee. It was a pivotal moment, as was Lindsey Graham, who says, I'm done, I'm out, I'm finished. We had a good ride together, but I'm done with Donald Trump. And then somebody was mean

to him in the airport in Washington, and he flipped on board. There's also, Mike, the human side of this. We've talked about this, Joe, and I have talked about this off the air, too. As an adult, as a man, how do you look yourself in the mirror? What do you say to your kids when they say, but dad or husband or friend or son, all the evidence says you shouldn't have done these things. This is all a lie. Why are you doing this? What do you say? What do you tell your kids? Well, I had to do it because the big guy was real mad at us. You know, here in this late November day in 2023, let's consider what we've talked about these last eight or nine minutes. One political party, the Republican Party, and I can only imagine the number of people who are watching this program or

the number of people who are out there in the United States of America wondering about the Republicans that we've talked about, about the party that we're talking about, wondering who are these people? Who are they? They can't govern. They've proven they can't govern. They've removed one speaker, poor Kevin McCarthy, because he went down to feed the hungry in Florida. You know, they took three or four weeks to get another speaker, a guy who is ideologically in the middle of the 19th century, not the 21st century. They haven't done one thing to lower the cost of gasoline by two or three cents,

not one thing to lower the price of a dozen of eggs by a dime or 15 cents. In other words, they haven't done one thing for people that they proselytize, that they just go after with the cheapest of cheap items, a man's son who is an addict, an admitted addict. Now, Mike, Mike invoked something,'s got a little of a biblical flavor there, some feeding the hungry, right? Joe, you're the closest thing we have to a pastor on this show. No, that's bad news. Well, I mean, yes, I mean, it just tells us about the heathens that are

in our midst. But, you know, I keep thinking about Mike Johnson and his thing where people said, oh, who's Mike Johnson? He said, well, you know, if you want to understand me, go look at the Bible. If you can read the Bible, you'll see who I am. And, you know, the invocation of Orange Jesus, although perhaps ironic by Marjorie Taylor Greene, it's like, you know, I think if I'm right, Ten Commandments, the first one, thou shall have no other God before me, right? That's the first commandment, I believe. And the third one is you shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain. I just don't get like these these these

self-styled uh the the chair the speaker of the house you know if you want to understand me just read your bible okay well there's a pretty basic thing ten commandments you know like that you know he's like the leader of the cults to orange jesus and this is like i mean there's so many hypocrisies and idiocies among among this, but there is something so jarring to hear the invocation of, even in a maybe comic way, of portraying Trump and then treating him as if he is, in fact, their messiah. I just, you gotta kind of ask the question. Someone's got to go up to Mike Johnson at some point and ask him this question, which is kind of like, you know, sir, you know, you said, look at the Bible. I've looked. Seems A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. so-called evangelical leaders. You can look at quotes from so-called Christian nationalists. They hold him up as an idol. And if you want to, I mean, read Jeremiah about what Jeremiah says about what happens to followers of God when they worship idols. They become worthless, just like the idols themselves. And in this case, David French, who is far closer to being in the pastoral realm than I will ever be. I'm so backslidden, like almost full circle there. David French said, wait a second, read the Bible, read the Bible, and you'll know what the new speaker, but no, he said just the opposite. And this is the great irony, John.

He became speaker in part because he propagated the biggest lie that has ever been propagated in the U.S. government in our lifetime. In our lifetime. In our lifetime. He sits on a throne built on lies. In fact, built on the biggest lie that was an attempt to overthrow the government. And it's a lie that he knows is a lie. But he did it anyway. And as Liz Cheney said, why did the speaker lie? The speaker lied because he wanted power. The speaker lied because he said, I have to be in Trump's circle. He lied for power. And as David French so eloquently wrote in the New York Times when Mike Johnson became speaker, he said, not only is there nothing in the Bible or in the New Testament and the Gospels and the Sermon on the Mount that would justify this. In fact, what this man has done is the antithesis of everything Jesus ever spoke about. Read the Bible? Not even close. Not even close.

Maybe. I don't know, John. You know, Jefferson had his own Bible where Jefferson cut out the verses that were inconvenient to him. Maybe, maybe these Christian nationalists should do the same and just invent their own Bible, invent their own gospels, because as David French said, there's nothing that Mike Johnson has done, nothing in his government service, nothing in his lust for power, lust for the speaker's gavel that has anything to do with what Jesus Christ preached about when he was here on earth. Joe, that was exactly the kind of reaction I was hoping for from you, and I will give you an amen. Yeah.

Amen. Yeah. And he's already rewritten the Bible. All right, John Haman, thank you very much. I expected John to respond. Well, no, he said amen. How can I top that? What's there to add?

What's there to add to that? Well said, Joe. Amen. I said. What's there to add? What's there to add to that? There is nothing. Well said, Joe. Amen, I said. What do you Catholics say? What is it? Something and respond or whatever? Call and respond. There you go.

Okay. I had the call. You had the response. What else do you want from me? All right. Okay. So as Willie, thank you, John Hammond. There you go.

Call and respond. As Willie mentioned, Liz Cheney is going to be our guest next Tuesday on Morning Joe. And we'll talk more with her about her book and her experience with this unbelievable situation. And as we go to break, here is Bob Vander Plaats, a top evangelical leader in Iowa, explaining why he is not backing Donald Trump for president, saying voters in his state are done with the former president. Trump deserved to lose my endorsement. Matter of fact, I've never endorsed him, but he proved he was not worthy of the endorsement of me, of the ministry, and by extension, the broader body. And I believe Iowa will rise up. I believe Iowa will send a message on January 15, because I think they're seeing it through this as well.

This is smoke and mirrors. This is not leadership our country needs. Are you worthy to be followed? Are moms and dads, grandpa and grandmas, are they willing to point to you and say, grow up to be like him or her? And I told people, Steve, in 2019 in Jerusalem, and we knew the 2020 election was coming upon us. And I told them the number one hurdle for Donald Trump is I've never met a dad or a mom or a grandpa or a grandma who have told me they want their son or daughter or grandchild to grow up to be like him. That's a big deal.