Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/30/22

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

The Morning Joe panel discusses the United States' 1-0 victory over Iran in Qatar on Tuesday, sending America through to World Cup knockout action. ...

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Starting point is 00:00:00 It is the goal that gave Team USA the win over Iran in the World Cup. The hero of the game was injured in the process, but says he will make it to the knockout round against the Netherlands on Saturday. We're going to have the full highlights, plus the concern for the Iranian players if they return home and also for their families. We're also following the latest from Washington this morning, where a jury convicted the founder of the Oath Keepers and a top deputy of seditious conspiracy for trying to overturn the 2020 election. Both now facing up to 20 years in prison and a lot happening on Capitol Hill today as well. Another shutdown showdown, a vote set for today aimed at avoiding a devastating rail strike. And House Democrats begin the
Starting point is 00:01:06 passing of the torch by honoring Nancy Pelosi with a new title ahead of today's leadership elections. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, November 30th. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department, Solis Jordan, and the host of Way Too Early, White House Peer Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire. Good to have you all with us this morning. And really, what a game. Wow. And I will tell you the end of it. Just talk about a nail biter.
Starting point is 00:01:37 Yeah, a nail biter, one nil, the United States. But man, the thing where they, you don't really know when the game's about the end because of the injury time and the added time and the extra time, whatever they call it. It just adds to the level of stress. But here is all Team USA needed. That's Christian Pulisic, the pride of Hershey, Pennsylvania, scoring the only goal of the game and suffering a pelvic contusion that sent him to the hospital. He didn't come back for the second half. He does say, as you mentioned, Mika, he'll be back, though, for the big game now into the knockout round. 16 teams left, and they will play the Netherlands.
Starting point is 00:02:14 It's in all the papers up here this morning, guys. Joe, you look at the back of the New York Post, guts and glory. And then, referring to that injury, suffered on the game winner. The agony of victory with Pulisic literally laying in the goal after scoring the game winner. Well, yeah, with the euphemism that I don't really want to get into much deeper, but a pelvic contusion. He seems OK, though. Yeah, seems OK. It's going to be OK.
Starting point is 00:02:42 Yeah, but that's a heck of it. We've all had pelvic contusions in our football careers. But nothing that sent us to the hospital and had wires in us. So he paid for the victory. But Jonathan Lemire, this is just quite simply a play, a setup, a header, a goal. Quite simply, past USA teams could not have pulled off. They just weren't at this skill level.
Starting point is 00:03:09 A spectacular goal and a painful one. Some gave all in this case for Christian Pulisic. Let us hope, indeed, he's ready for Saturday. But we should note, the game could have been 2-0 right at the end of the first half, Joe. You and I were texting about it.
Starting point is 00:03:25 The U.S. had another goal that was wiped away off to an offsides call that was very close. Some questions as to whether it was legit or not. And then, man, we barely hung on. It's a win, but those last 20 minutes or so simply agonizing. Iran controlled play. The U.S. got tight. They had chance after chance after chance. But the dam held, and this is a play. The U.S. got tight. They had chance after chance after chance. But the dam held, and this is a spectacular win for U.S. soccer.
Starting point is 00:03:50 And you want to know whether they were excited afterwards or not. Take a look at this video from the team hotel that men's soccer put out. Nice. Wow. And there he is. Yeah. Post-op. Or post-stitch or post-whatever.
Starting point is 00:04:10 Don't squeeze me too hard! Leave him alone. That's really exciting. And there's, of course, Tyler Adams, a team captain. He just represented the team in the country so well. You know, Alex Shepard wrote a great piece in the New Republic titled In Praise of the Messy, Glorious U.S. Men's National Team.
Starting point is 00:04:33 And it reads in part, and so many American soccer fans, American football fans would agree with every line of this. I am, I must confess, a dyed-in-the-wool USMNT hater. Despite a lifetime of rooting for abject or near-abject teams, the New York Knicks, the Oakland A's, the Buffalo Bills, there was always something cringy about rooting for the U.S. men's national team. Even at their most goonish, players always seemed somewhat hapless. In the global showcase, even when they succeeded, there was something pathetic about them. But sometime during the first half of their game against Wales, I realized this was an American team I could love.
Starting point is 00:05:14 Its players are a password quilt of old and new defensively. The teams play with determination and energy and at times abjectness of the U.S. teams of old. It features several players about whom one of soccer's great fatalistic cliches, he has a mistake and he applies. It's midfield, the trio of destroyers, Tyler Adams, the do-it-all McKinney, and the zippy Eunice, who is the making of an extraordinary attacker, is unlike any Americans who've played before. And it's attacking front line, led by Pulisic, is all zipping energy.
Starting point is 00:05:52 And when Brendan Aronson comes on, they're downright combustible. For the first time, this team feels like it's actually building something. Instead of standing still for years, the team alternated between quirky success and flop sweat failure, never seeming to make much progress between major tournaments. There was always a sense that the U.S. was not deep down a real soccer country. This team is untroubled by that anxiety. It is untroubled by being too defensive or too European. It just plays, and it plays well.
Starting point is 00:06:25 So far, so good. And Willie, they're going to have to play very well on Saturday when they play the Netherlands. Yeah, and I'm going to read from one of my best buddies who knows much more about soccer than I do, texted me this. Let me see if you agree, Joe. Our team is young and dangerous.
Starting point is 00:06:44 They picked this team to be a great team in 2026 when we host. Getting out of the group stage this year has met expectations. A win in the next round would exceed expectations, but young teams with nothing to lose and no pressure on them are very dangerous. So this could be a very exciting tournament, even if it is the youngest team in the World Cup. Ours is 24 years and change on average with an eye toward the future. But boy, yesterday's kind of looked like the future is now, Joe. Well, it really did. And Jonathan Lemire, you know, we watch an awful lot of Premier League football. But I've got to say, you could tell early on in this tournament especially the first half during Wells that this was a good team they were better than past U.S. teams they move the
Starting point is 00:07:32 ball well they find lanes they make space they they do the things they need to do to stay in the game they come up short at times here and there again but they're very very young but yeah this team was put together to be ready for the World Cup. We're playing in America four years from now. They're ahead of schedule. They really are. And this is a team that's largely drawn from the European leagues. These guys are all playing professionally overseas. They're not MLS players, MLS, just not quite at the same level as our European leagues, of course. And look, they don't quite have the overwhelming skill
Starting point is 00:08:05 that some of the other contenders do. They're a striker or two short, perhaps. But Pulisic is a superstar. And this is someone who's had expectations on him for years, sort of almost the LeBron James of the U.S. soccer scene, the national team. And he is meeting those expectations. And it's so fitting that he got that goal yesterday.
Starting point is 00:08:24 And as Willie noted, almost everything from here on out is a bonus. And the experience they're getting coming through the group stage, playing a Netherlands team that is good but beatable, everything, every minute they play right now is building towards 2026. It's going to be fun to watch. Wow. Well, we're going to have Roger Bennett coming up in the next hour to talk about all of this. He was so excited. Well, we're going to have Roger Bennett coming up in the next hour to talk about all this. He was so excited. Yeah, he will be pumped. But we're also going to talk about the geopolitical implications of this. It was hard not to feel for the Iranian players.
Starting point is 00:08:52 Well, I felt bad for them on the field. I really did. I mean, what they're possibly going back to, having the courage to stand with the people, with the women of Iran. That's right. Yeah. And facing possible threats to themselves or their families. We'll talk about what it'll mean for them and follow that part of the story as well. Moving on now, a federal jury reached a verdict yesterday in the high profile Oath Keepers trial. Oath Keepers founder Stuart Rhodes and the leader of the Florida chapter of the far right group, Kelly Meggs, were both found guilty of seditious conspiracy in connection with the January 6th, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
Starting point is 00:09:34 The seditious conspiracy charge carries a maximum of 20 years in prison. Rhodes' attorney said they plan to appeal the conviction. This is the most serious case to grow out of the Justice Department's sprawling investigation into the U.S. Capitol insurrection. The trial lasted eight weeks, with the jury deliberating for three days. Three other members of the group were found not guilty on seditious conspiracy that charge. They include Jessica Watkins, Kenneth Harrelson and Thomas Caldwell. All five were found guilty of obstruction of an official proceeding and aiding and abetting their for their actions on January 6th. A sentencing date has not been
Starting point is 00:10:19 set yet. Federal prosecutors allege the five defendants conspired to oppose the peaceful transfer of power from former President Donald Trump to President Joe Biden. Attorney General Merrick Garland released a statement praising the work of prosecutors and federal agents, affirming that the Justice Department is, quote, committed to holding accountable those criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy on January 6th, 2021. Police Jordan, obviously not easy to get this charge. A big win. Seditious conspiracy. Seditious conspiracy. A big win for prosecutors and a big win for Americans who were shocked and outraged by what happened on January the 6th. Let me just say a huge loss for those right wing Trumpers, the Trumpiest of the right wing Trumpers in the chattering classes.
Starting point is 00:11:17 They kept saying, oh, wait a second. It wasn't an insurrection. If it were an insurrection, these people would be charged and found guilty of seditious conspiracy. Well, they were. And here we are. And it was an insurrection, according to juries, unless they want to nullify juries now. Well, and you what you hear from a lot of Trump supporters who defend what happened on January 6th is that so many of the insurrectionists are being held now as political prisoners. Well, this goes to the very top of the operation, seditious conspiracy, which is a pretty heavy charge when you think about the gravity of what happened that day and, you know, the attempt to overturn the government. And so now going forward, what does this mean for all of the other men and women who were there that day
Starting point is 00:12:14 and who breached police boundaries, who went into areas of the Capitol that they weren't supposed to go into? What does this mean now? Let's turn to some of our reporters on this story. Former assistant U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, now on NBC News and MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirshner and NBC News justice reporter Ryan Riley. Guys, good morning. Ryan, let me start with you. You've been covering this case so closely. Both of you were in the courtroom actually for most of this trial. So, Ryan, how did the verdicts that you saw yesterday and heard line up with what you expected? You know, I definitely was expecting Stuart Rhodes to catch the seditious conspiracy verdict. I think that, you know,
Starting point is 00:12:56 actually the split verdict here sort of goes to the credibility of the jury and of the verdict, because we've seen a lot of attacks on D.C. jurors in a lot of court filings from January 6th defendants saying that they're too biased or too left-leaning to handle these cases and decide them fairly. But, you know, they didn't give DOJ everything they wanted here. They looked at the evidence, applied the facts and the evidence, and came up with this mixed verdict, finding two individuals were guilty of seditious conspiracy, but that three of them weren't. I just think it's a well-reasoned and logical verdict that really does show that jurors took their duty here seriously and looked at what the judge instructed them to do, looked at the
Starting point is 00:13:36 evidence that was available to them, and decided that there was enough evidence to find at least two of these individuals guilty of seditious conspiracy. So a big win for DOJ here overall. And, you know, seditious conspiracy is something that hasn't been seen in D.C. for decades. And it's been more than a decade since the last time the Justice Department tried this. And in that case, they they didn't succeed. So, you know, they took a big shot here. And and I think that, you know, this is over at main justice at DOJ headquarters. I think they're chalking this one up to a win. And it's not great news necessarily for individuals who are still facing these seditious conspiracy charges, including other members of the Oath
Starting point is 00:14:14 Keepers whose trial is coming up, as well as members of the Proud Boys who also are facing that charge and will be going to trial here in the coming weeks. Glenn, the Oath Keepers, as you know, have compared themselves to the founding fathers fighting tyranny. They said this was their Bastille moment, comparing themselves to French revolutionaries. We know that they had weapons, huge caches of weapons at a comfort inn in Arlington, Virginia. In case it came to that, they'd have boats at the ready to go in. They were role playing. They thought they were revolutionaries. What message does this verdict send to them? Yeah, you know, Willie, criminal trials are not supposed to be political endeavors. You know, the question for the jury exclusively is whether the evidence introduced at trial
Starting point is 00:14:55 proves the charged offenses beyond a reasonable doubt. And I will say the prosecutors did a pretty good job at keeping politics out of the trial. Rarely did you hear a prosecutor even utter the name Donald Trump. But then the head of the Oath Keepers and the lead defendant, Elmer Stewart Rhodes, took the stand and blew it all up. Now, it's rare for defendants to take the stand in large federal prosecutions. I've had some of my defendants take the stand, which was always a happy time for me because I got to cross examine them. But when when Rhodes took the stand very early on in his lengthy testimony, he said, and I quote, the election was unconstitutional, you know, said the disbarred Yale lawyer. And he also helpfully added that he is a constitutional expert.
Starting point is 00:15:44 I don't think he won any points with the jury. But once he did that, Willie, he really put the big lie on trial. So ultimately, I view the jury's verdict not only as an affirmation that the evidence proved the guilt of these five defendants beyond a reasonable doubt, but it was a pretty direct rejection of the big lie itself. You know, in short, I think the verdicts were a victory of law, the rule of law over lawlessness and a victory of facts over, I guess, alternative facts. Hey, Glenn, it's Jonathan. This is certainly a watershed moment in the January 6th investigations and a rarity to have the seditious conspiracy charging conviction.
Starting point is 00:16:26 So let's talk sentencing. What could Stuart Rhodes face here? So Rhodes and his top lieutenant, Kelly Meggs, who was also convicted of the lead charge, seditious conspiracy, are looking at between 20 and 30 years. Now, that's the statutory maximum. The guidelines may be lower, though, in a case like this, you know, the judge may actually feel compelled to go to the top of the guideline range. Now, the other defendants who were also convicted of serious federal felonies, including trying to obstruct the certification of Joe Biden's win, are facing more like 10 to 15 years. But I really think it's the fact of the conviction, Jonathan, that matters more than how many years or in Rhodes and Meg's case, how many decades they may end up spending in prison. Ryan, Elise Jordan here. What big cases are you watching now with January 6th defendants? You know, there's a lot of them that turn through every day,
Starting point is 00:17:26 but I would think that the biggest one right now, in addition to this additional Oath Keepers trial, is going to be the Proud Boys. And frankly, I think the Proud Boys case, from what we've seen so far, is even stronger in terms of pre-planning. So you might have a case where you have more Proud Boys potentially convicted of a seditious conspiracy charge than you did Oath Keepers. Because DOJ did get, before the Oath Keepers trial, three Oath Keepers defendants to plead guilty to that charge of seditious conspiracy. None of them actually testified during the trial, which was interesting. We did have a couple other Oath Keepers who pleaded guilty to less serious charges who did testify during the trial. But in the Proud Boys case, you have so much evidence of pre-planning and intent in terms of they were dressed up sort of as Antifa, and they were
Starting point is 00:18:12 wearing bands basically to try to identify themselves. They didn't want to be identified as Proud Boys on that day. And then you just have so much more physical violence from members of the Proud Boys than you did members of the Oath Keepers. In the case of the Oath Keepers, you really only had one of these individuals actually physically engaged with officers, Jessica Watkins, who was tried in this first case. And she was admitted that she was in that crowd inside the Capitol pushing up against police officers. And in fact, when she took the stand, said, you know, find me guilty of this count.
Starting point is 00:18:44 And the jury did in terms of civil disorder. But, you know, in the case of the Proud Boys, there's just a ton of evidence of pre-planning. And you also have them physically smashing those windows. The famous video that we see over and over again of someone taking a police shield and actually physically smashing out that window to the Capitol. That's going to be on display during that trial, as well as additional violence against police, along with a lot more violent rhetoric than we even saw in the Oath Keepers case. All right. NBC News Justice Reporter Ryan Riley and NBC News and MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirshner, thank you both for being on this morning. A lot more still ahead on Morning Joe. The politics of soccer go well beyond the pitch. We'll look at the serious situation Iranian players and their families face following a protest at the World Cup.
Starting point is 00:19:33 Plus, Herschel Walker wants to represent Georgia in the U.S. Senate. But does he even live there? That's what some are asking this morning after new reporting on his financial records. And as we mentioned at the top of the show, there is a lot happening on Capitol Hill today, from leadership elections to a controversial vote to block freight and rail workers from going on strike. We'll get into all of that coming up on Morning Joe. I was alive when I waited for this. Right here, right now. Paris, my world's a place I want to be. To our the protesters who took to China's streets to challenge harsh coronavirus measures are now reportedly being tracked down using the country's extensive surveillance system in an
Starting point is 00:20:25 effort to prevent future demonstrations. The Wall Street Journal reports, quote, Chinese authorities appear to be preventing fresh protests from taking root by deploying large numbers of police at the sites of planned protests in major cities. On Tuesday, a planned protest in Shenzhen was canceled after large numbers of police turned up at several locations in the city, according to messages on social media reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. Similarly, protests on Monday were canceled in Beijing and Shanghai. The Journal goes on, quote, besides hundreds of millions of cameras, some equipped with facial recognition software that line city streets. The police also can access detailed mobile phone and social media data
Starting point is 00:21:12 that shows people's locations at a given time. The rare acts of defiance began over the weekend in major cities across China as frustration over the country's zero COVID policy came to a head. We'll be watching that. Willie. Meanwhile, as we mentioned, the Iranian team for the World Cup is bracing for what could be an unwelcome homecoming by the Islamic Republic after failing to advance in six World Cup appearances. Now, while the team did sing the country's national anthem ahead of yesterday's match, the display followed reports the players were threatened with imprisonment and torture if they did not, quote, behave after failing to sing the anthem during their opening match against England last week in protest. A win against the U.S. could have helped ease the prior transgression,
Starting point is 00:21:59 perhaps. But a former CIA covert operations officer tells the New York Post Iranian players now are stuck in an untenable position facing fines or even arrest once they arrive home as retaliation for their disloyalty and their failure to beat the United States. Joe, so this was a concern immediately. That's why we've said again and again, it was an incredible act of courage for those Iranian players in that first game not to sing the national anthem, speaking out for the women of Iran, some of them being attacked in the streets as we speak. They may now face the consequences when they head home. It was really, it was terrible as I was watching the game. Obviously, it was cheering on Team USA. At the same time, you couldn't help but feel for these Iranian players who took. You know, we go back to the 68 Olympics and the raised clinch fists in 68.
Starting point is 00:22:56 And that was so courageous. You look at these players on the largest of the world stage, just like the 68 Olympics in Mexico City, not singing the national anthem with the regime that they know could kill them, jail them, torture them, kill their families, imprison their families. And it showed extraordinary courage. But, yeah, it was difficult watching the Iranian players afterwards, just because what they may face when they go home. Joining us now, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace,
Starting point is 00:23:31 Kareem Sajapur. He focuses on Iran and U.S. foreign policy toward the Middle East and very interested to hear your thoughts on, number one, what these Iranian players are facing, what you're hearing about, what could happen to them and to their families, and what the geopolitical implications are of all this? Thank you, Mika. That's a great question. I mean, first, this game took place against the backdrop of the largest national uprisings in Iran since the country's 1979 revolution. Over the last three months, nearly 19,000 Iranians have been imprisoned. Nearly 500 Iranians have been killed. And remember, this is a regime whose identity is premised on anti-Americanism. Its official slogan is Death to America.
Starting point is 00:24:18 And it desperately wanted this propaganda victory against the United States, in many ways similar to how the Soviet Union desperately wanted propaganda victories against the United States. As you alluded to, it threatened the players that if they were to exhibit any acts of protest against the regime, their families would be in trouble, their assets would be confiscated. And in the end, it ended very badly for the regime because people in Iran actually cheered the United States victory. And I think this is a reminder, Mika, that despite the fact that this is the most anti-American regime in the world, it's arguably one of the most pro-American societies in the world. You know, that's always been. I've talked to friends in the CIA who always said the great irony was that this was a decade ago, but said in the countries that when they were in Damascus or Tehran, actually, the people there loved Americans, couldn't ask enough questions about American society, where some of our allies actually have people who have an open hostility toward the United States or at least did in the past.
Starting point is 00:25:43 But can you talk about that? Again, I always find myself in this strange position when I'm watching Iran play in past World Cups, because the government's the epicenter of international terrorism and has been since 1979. And yet the people from everything I've heard are wonderful. Most are pro-American. The culture, the civilization, the history, the heritage is just not a more remarkable civilization on Earth than the Persian civilization. Talk about I've never been able to put those two realities together. How how could it be that these thugs have have have captured such a vibrant, wonderful civilization for for almost 50 years now. Joe, you have two very powerful forces in Iran. You have a young, modern society, which is desperately seeking wholesale fundamental change.
Starting point is 00:26:55 And they have at their back a civilization that, as you talked about, is 2,500 years old. And they're very proud of that civilization. And they want to be an upstanding member of the international community. And then you have a regime which has been in power for 43 years, and it's ruthless, and that it believes that it's either rule or die. They have no friends in the world. And in contrast to the Shah's government in 1978, when many of the elite of the Shah's government were able to remake their lives in London or Los Angeles when the revolution happened. These guys are friendless.
Starting point is 00:27:31 Their only friend is in Syria. And so these powerful forces are going to continue to play out in Iran. And there's no guarantee that people will prevail in the near term. But I think it's it's certainly guaranteed that this is a regime which is not sustainable. So, Kareem, what changes things in Iran? I mean, I'm thinking back to the Green Revolution of 2009 and 2010, which was previously the largest demonstration we've seen inside the country since the revolution in 79. If everything you've just said is true and Joe is right, that the country by and large is a young country and a modern country wants to be a modern country, I should say. So what breaks the stranglehold that the small group of authoritarian leaders have on the rest of the population? What we know from history, Willie, is that for popular uprisings to succeed, you not only need popular pressure, pressure from below, but importantly, you also need elite divisions, divisions at the top. And we've seen in Iran, obviously, an enormous desire for popular change. What we haven't yet seen are fissures at the top, those elite divisions.
Starting point is 00:28:41 I have a friend who's a longtime professor in Tehran who told me about this regime. He said this regime are 20 percent idiots and 80 percent charlatans, meaning only 20 percent are true believers, truly believe in the ideology. But now, after four decades, 80 percent are charlatans. They don't believe in the ideology. They're in it for political and financial expediency. If these protests persist, I think you will start to see fissures, especially within that 80 percent. Senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Kareem Sajapur, thank you very much for your insight this morning. And coming up in a landmark vote, the Senate passes a bill to protect same-sex marriage. We'll talk about what's next for that piece of legislation.
Starting point is 00:29:31 And a look at what else is happening on Capitol Hill today. A lot. Plus, the House Select Committee investigating January 6th gives an update on the timeline for a final report. But the panel isn't done with interviews just yet. Morning Joe is coming right back. Live pictures of Capitol Hill this morning at 38 past the hour. A lot going on in that building. The Senate has passed landmark legislation to codify federal protections for same-sex and interracial marriages. The Respect for Marriage Act was approved by a vote of 61 to 36 with support from all Democrats and 12 Republicans. The measure now
Starting point is 00:30:28 heads back to the House for a final vote, which could happen as early as next Tuesday. It would then go to President Biden, who said he looks forward to signing it. The president issued a statement yesterday, writing in part, quote, With today's bipartisan Senate passage of the Respect for Marriage Act, the United States is on the brink of reaffirming a fundamental truth. Love is love. And Americans should have the right to marry the person they love. Elise Jordan, it is. I've got to say, when I saw the vote, I was just stunned. 61 to 36. I mean, I knew it was coming.
Starting point is 00:31:34 I still couldn't believe it because our recent past would drive up vote and help them win the election. Four years later, Barack Obama, as progressive of a president as we've had when he was running. Barack Obama said he was against same sex marriage because he was a Christian and he believes marriage is between a man and a woman. Four years later, in the 2012 campaign, just a decade ago, Joe Biden got absolutely crushed by the Obama White House was, I remember in real time getting reports out of the White House that nobody would talk to him. He would go into meetings. He was dead man walking inside that White House because he dared to go on Meet the Press and say he supported same-sex marriage. Now think about that. That's just 10 years ago, right? And here we are 61 to 36 when that vice president who was attacked inside a progressive administration for saying he supported same-sex marriage and Arne Duncan the next day, I think came on morning, Joe said he supported it too.
Starting point is 00:32:49 Then he faced a firestorm and he went back to the White House. I say all that just to say, my God, 10 years later, it passes in a breeze, bipartisan legislation. That's a pretty extraordinary decade. Joe, what an example this issue is of how the American people are often farther ahead than politicians on human rights issues. And you look at where Vice President Joe Biden, then vice president, where he was and how he was ahead of the politics within the Democratic establishment. But he could tell what the pulse of the voters was. And then you look at today and, you know, most Republicans are behind this.
Starting point is 00:33:37 And it's just such a human rights triumph in America that this isn't even a point of debate, a point of contention anymore, really. But it's just you look at the other issues that there still are outstanding and we still have places to come. I wonder if women's health, though, is just another example of where politicians are out of step with where the voters are. They got 12 Republicans to vote for this, John, to get over 60 votes, still a whole bunch of them who did not vote for the federal protection of gay marriage. But when you look again at just over the last decade of where Barack Obama was, we had guests on our show 10 years ago. I know Joe mentioned this yesterday. Arne Duncan was the education secretary. We asked him on the air and it was seen as a big deal. He said, yeah, I support gay marriage. I think if people of the same sex want to marry, we should honor that. And it was like big breaking news. And if you look at the
Starting point is 00:34:28 movement in the polls in the country, even among Republicans, it's now a vast majority position to respect and honor gay marriage in this country. Quite a movement in a decade. Yeah, it's been argued there's been nothing that has moved so quickly in the public acceptance as the idea of gay marriage. This is OK. The same-sex marriage, of course, is fine. And the government should stay out of it. Twelve Republicans, more than they anticipated they would get. People were real. There's sort of a triumphant mood in the Senate yesterday after this happened. It goes to the House next week, where it's expected, of course, to pass. And then President Biden has said he will happily sign it as soon as he possibly can. Biden, of course, as Joe just mentioned, ahead of many Democrats on this
Starting point is 00:35:04 issue back when he was vice president. And this comes at a time of this was all taken up because of the Dobbs decision, because of the abortion rights being overturned. And there was a quick move to sort of to codify this, to protect this. It happened. It happened quickly. Proponents are really pleased. And we'll see the president sign it likely in the next week or so. Just one of many agenda items on Capitol Hill this morning, including the House Democratic leadership elections, an expected vote to blocking a looming rail strike, and another attempt to avoid a government shutdown. Let's bring in NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles. Ryan, a busy day. Looking forward to a busy week here.
Starting point is 00:35:43 Maybe a busy month, Willie. There's a lot that Congress has to get done over the next couple of days. But you're right. The headline today will be the historic election of a new crop of Democratic leaders led by New York City's Hakeem Jeffries, who will become the first African-American to be the leader of any party on Capitol Hill House or Senate when he is expected to be unanimously elected by his peers in a closed door vote this morning. He'll be joined by Catherine Clark of Massachusetts, who will serve as his deputy. And then Pete Aguilar of California will become the conference chair. Still hanging around, though, will be Jim Clyburn, who is going to serve in a role in leadership. But what you see here, Willie, is truly a change, a generational change in leadership. This new crop, these three new leaders are 30 years younger
Starting point is 00:36:31 than the group that they're going to replace. And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and James Clyburn in those top three spots. So this shows the Democratic Party evolving as they get to this next step. And of course, it will be a big job of Hakeem Jeffries to keep all these Democrats in line, given the fact that there will be such tight margins in the House of Representatives in the coming year, even though Democrats will be in the minority. And they have a lot to tackle right out of the gate. You mentioned this looming government shutdown. They have to decide whether or not they're going to pass a continuing resolution that essentially just kicks the can down the road, or if they will do some sort of fulsome omnibus spending plan that they can get both Democrats and Republicans to buy into. And then, of course, there is the rail strike, which is a big problem right essentially, you know, approve the deal that they thought they already
Starting point is 00:37:26 had with the unions and with the Biden administration and the rail companies. But they are also going to do a separate vote on offering paid sick leave to many of these rail workers. That's a key sticking point. It's something that progressives are strongly in support of. But they're going to do two separate votes in the House today so that they can get it over the finish line and then see if it has the votes to get done here in the Senate. So it is a very, very busy day here. Just an example of what we expect is going to take place over the next couple of weeks. And Ryan, also the January 6th committee final report. Any word on when that's going to come out and who else they still need to talk to in the short amount of time that they have?
Starting point is 00:38:05 Yeah, it's crazy how busy they still are, Mika. In fact, we reported for among the first to report that Robin Voss, who is the assembly speaker in Wisconsin, is scheduled to meet with the committee today. He, of course, was the leader in Wisconsin that got a phone call from Donald Trump 20 months after the election was certified, where Trump was demanding that he retroactively attempt to overturn the election results. And Voss turned him down, told him he couldn't do that. You know, while Voss did have that profile and courage, he also spent somewhere in the range of $700,000 in taxpayer money to investigate the election in Wisconsin. And it turned up no examples of fraud. But to answer your question about when they're going to wrap this up, well, according to statute, they have to be done by December 31st. But
Starting point is 00:38:54 Benny Thompson told reporters last night that they're getting closer, that they're almost ready to put their pens down on this final report, which he said will be eight chapters in length. So it's going to have a ton of information. And keep in mind, Mika and Joe, they've been telling us from the very beginning that, yes, they're going to issue a report that kind of outlines everything, points to all the key things that they discovered. But they're also going to release all the information that they've compiled, every deposition, every piece of information that they've collected. So this is going to be just a trove of information, much of which we still don't know about, that this committee will ultimately release.
Starting point is 00:39:33 NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles, thank you very much. Thank you, Ryan. Greatly appreciate it. So, Mika, I want to go back really quickly about Joe Biden and something that you've always said about how he gets politics. This guy from Delaware that's been underestimated his entire life. He gets politics. He was mocked, ridiculed and just bluntly loathed by a progressive White House when he was too progressive for their tastes on marriage equality. You look back 2020, that presidential field for the Democratic nomination, he was mocked and ridiculed. He was too old. He was too senile. He was too moderate. There were all of these progressives that were, they just looked down on him. They just flat out looked down on this guy. He won.
Starting point is 00:40:27 He beat them all. History has proven him to be right. It was the Obama White House that was wrong. I'm sure they're all embarrassed about how badly they treated Joe Biden 10 years ago for him being right on a civil rights issue. And all of the all the things that were written about Joe Biden in the 2020 campaign that he couldn't win. He wasn't up to it. He's too old. He beat everybody. Well, then he beat Donald Trump. And then you look at what happened in 2022. Everybody's talking about red wave, red wave, red wave, except we weren't talking about a red wave. And he he out he man out outplays everybody's expectations for him. It seems just about every time he knows his politics, he knows the long game and he knows how to walk through all the
Starting point is 00:41:15 naysayers and all the underestimating and sort of put the blinders on to that and move forward. And whether you know, I mean, if you look at how he's handling Ukraine, which is just unbelievably huge issue, it's masterful. If Americans were tuned into that, they're less so because of the division and issues that they face here at home and the economy. But at the midterms, again, he focused on abortion. He focused on democracy. He focused on abortion. He focused on he held a speech on the state of our democracy and the future of our democracy and restoring our democracy. He knew exactly what the touch points were, no matter what everybody else was saying. And he was and Willie, he was mocked and ridiculed. Biden was mocked and ridiculed for talking about democracy, talking about abortion. I won't mention the podcast, but I listened to a podcast the week, the weekend before the election.
Starting point is 00:42:12 The entire about people that everybody here knows the entire podcast was mocking and ridiculing Joe Biden for focusing on abortion and on democracy. He ended up being right. They all ended up being wrong. Check the exit polls in Pennsylvania. Check the exit polls in Michigan. And he, you know, he wasn't alone in believing that abortion was going to be a persistent issue, but a narrative sort of form that, well, it was red hot in the summer and it kind of died down. Most people who thought that was an important issue knew that wasn't the case. And it turned out to be decisive in a couple of those states where governors were elected and state secretaries of states were elected, especially in Michigan, because of the opponents they had on the issue of abortion.
Starting point is 00:42:58 So still ahead, we're going to talk to a former employee of the Oath Keepers about the conviction of the far right group's founder, plus a potentially game-changing drug for Alzheimer's patients. We'll discuss the latest results with an expert straight ahead on Morning Joe. The hour, a quick look at the morning papers. The Clarion Ledger leads with the latest on the ongoing water crisis in Jackson, Mississippi. The U.S. Department of Justice has filed a proposal in federal court that would appoint a third party to stabilize the city's water. The third party manager has not yet been identified. The Wichita Eagle reports that women in Kansas could soon seek abortion pills through telemedicine appointments after a judge blocked a state law banning the practice. Abortion providers say the decision will help expand access to the procedure across the state, especially in more rural areas. In Maryland, the Capitol reports that Republican Governor
Starting point is 00:44:06 Larry Hogan will host a pair of major fundraisers tonight as he considers a 2024 presidential bid. While Hogan has repeatedly said he will not make a decision until after he leaves office next month, his political fundraising entities have raised over $1 million. And Florida Today covers NASA's historic Artemis 1 mission. The Orion spacecraft yesterday shattered records after traveling 270,000 miles away from Earth. The furthest distance any spacecraft designed to carry humans has ever traveled. Now, this flight has no crew. It's a test in anticipation of returning humans to the moon. And coming up, top Republicans in Congress take different approaches to the latest controversy surrounding Donald Trump. Plus, Roger Bennett will be here to break down Team USA's big win at the World Cup.
Starting point is 00:45:07 Morning Joe, we'll be right back.

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