Morning Joe - Morning Joe 11/3/23

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrives in Israel on Friday with plans to press the Israeli government for brief 'pauses' in fighting to allow humanitarian aid and hostage releases.

This is the defendant, Don Jr. He's here to show his father that he's a man who can ride the subway all by himself. He's accused of real estate fraud and hunting house cats without a license. This is also the defendant, Eric. He claims his family is allowed to break the law because his daddy's name is on buildings. He's accused of real estate fraud and eating glue. But your witnessing is real. The participants are not actors. They are actual idiots with a case pending in the New York Metropolitan Area Court.

The people's fault. Just missing Judge Walker there, Joe. Yeah. That smile. Oh, that is a People's Court parody from Jimmy Kimmel's writers. We'll get legal analysis on Eric and Don Jr.'s testimony in the civil fraud trial against the Trump organization. Show you what they said. Also ahead, a live report from the Middle East as there is growing pressure now on Israel to take a humanitarian pause in its assault on Hamas terrorists hiding in Gaza. Plus, an update on Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville's

freeze on military promotions. The Alabama lawmaker finally is facing public pressure from members of his own party. But you won't believe what he said this time. And we'll go through the verdict in a high profile fraud trial for a man once known as the crypto king, now convicted on several charges. Good morning. Welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, November 3rd. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, and President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haas. So let's begin this morning with Israel pushing forward with its ground invasion. Israeli defense forces announced last night they have encircled Gaza City

and are fighting face-to-face battles now with Hamas. This as airstrikes continue to hammer the territory, Israel has come under increasing international pressure to at least temporarily pause the fighting with Hamas. But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted on social media yesterday that troops are making progress and, quote, nothing will stop us. Meanwhile, fighting along Israel's northern border with Lebanon is intensifying. Hezbollah has claimed to attack 19 Israeli military targets. Israel has not confirmed that specific claim, but military officials say there have been a number of launches from Lebanon and that Israel

is striking back, targeting the terrorist group's infrastructure. This comes as the leader of Hezbollah today is expected to make his first public address since the Israel-Hamas war began. It likely will indicate the group's next moves, raising fears the war could widen from here. Joining us now from Jerusalem, NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel. Richard, what's the latest there on the ground, including Israel's response to these calls for a humanitarian pause so some of that aid can get into Gaza? So that is going to be top of the agenda, it seems, during the visit by Secretary Blinken.

He's arrived and effectively he is pushing to slow this war down, call it a pause, call it a ceasefire. The United States isn't calling it a ceasefire, but an effort to slow down the fighting so that we don't enter into a cycle of violence that we cannot get out of, that Israel cannot get out of, that Israel, that the United States is drawn into. And the timing is critical. So Israeli troops, according to the military, have now encircled gaza city gaza city is the most densely part of the gaza strip it was home at one stage to 800 000 people it's unclear how many are still in gaza city but still quite a few people in there they're already in street

to street fighting israel is already taking casualties there are many many palestinian deaths every single day according According to the health ministry, the number has surpassed 9000. Israel has not outlined any clear long term plan, any clear exit strategy. And now we have these looming threats from the region, increased attacks by Iran proxies. This speech coming from the leader of Hezbollah later today. So it seems that the the secretary of state is trying to slow it down, perhaps for cooler heads to emerge and to find potentially a way out of this before there is no way out of this.

So, Richard, I know Hezbollah has regretted in the past some incursions from the north with Israel. I'm curious if the expectation in Israel and around the Middle East is that actually the leader today will announce that they are going to be opening up a new front from the north or if they're simply going to express solidarity with their brothers in Hamas? The latter. People do not expect that he is going to make an announcement and then as soon as the address is done there will be a rocket fire raining down on Israel.

There might be some, there could be some attacks because there have already been attacks in the last several weeks since this war has begun. But we do not expect that as soon as he makes his announcement, we will have a new, wider war all across the Middle East. The thinking from Hamas, as best we can understand, and from Hezbollah and from Hamas, is that Hamas is happy to drag Israel into a long-term guerrilla war in Gaza. They are hoping that this will be another Vietnam or another Somalia for Israel. And if Israel is willing to take this bait, go into Gaza, lose troops, then the thinking

from Hezbollah is it will wait. It will allow Israel to get sucked into a quagmire in the Middle East, potentially dragging in the United States. And then it could attack at a later stage. So we are, as I said, we are in a very critical phase where Israel is going deeper and deeper into the Gaza Strip. And Hamas seems very happy to pull Israel into this fight, regardless of the consequences for the people of the Gaza Strip, no matter how many people are losing their lives in Gaza. And thousands of people are dying in Gaza, no matter who is counting the numbers.

It's quite obvious. Richard, obviously, there has been a split among Israelis through the years about a group of Israelis who are more hardcore on their belief that there doesn't need to be a two-state solution, that Israel needs to be as aggressive as they can starting up settlements in the West Bank. But obviously, there have been a large number of Israelis who also believe that they need to move towards a two-state solution. Tragically, many of the people who were slaughtered on October the 7th were some of those people who thought that there needed to be that peace needed to be made with the Palestinians. I'm curious for that faction, the more moderate wing in Israel, are they are they talking about the possibility of pulling back or does Israel and it would be understandable if they did, are Israeli politicians where our politicians were on, say, September 12th, 2001? I think you're closer to the latter. It is more that politicians are where the United States was

on September 12th. This government was already a very right-wing government before this attack happened. There were protests on the street. The sort of more liberal left-wings Israelis were on the street protesting against the government, protesting against Netanyahu because he had formed a coalition with some of the most extreme elements in Israeli society. So that government, which had Netanyahu and these extreme elements, and many said he was pandering to the extreme elements, trying to change laws in society, empowering extremist settlers in the West Bank, provoking Palestinians.

That was the situation we were in at the beginning of the conflict. Now that government, although it is expanded, including some other members to form a war cabinet, is at war. And many people in Israel are determined to go to war. And if you remember the days after 9-11, there was a movement in the United States where people were angry. They were outraged, they were attacking Muslims on the street, they were attacking Sikhs because they thought they were Muslims on the street. There was a real anger. And what did they end up doing?

They ended up invading Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9-11, breaking the country and then spending years trying to put it back together. So there are voices emerging saying, slow down, be careful what you do. Don't go into a war without a long-term plan. And ultimately, that debate is happening. But while that debate is happening, the fighting is still underway. And Netanyahu is refusing any kind of ceasefire. And I think it's also important not to get too hung up on the terminology. What is a pause? What is a ceasefire? To a degree, they're the same thing. The practicality is they're the same thing. You stop fighting. But the reason the United States

says it can never have a ceasefire with Hamas or Israel says it can never have a ceasefire with Hamas is it dignifies the group too much. Going back to 9-11, the United States could never say it will have a ceasefire with Al-Qaeda. We would never have a ceasefire with ISIS because the group is evil and the fight and the fight against those will go on forever. But you could have a tactical humanitarian pause with Al Qaeda in order to freeze some hostages or do some practical deal. But you could never give up on the principle of destroying that evil, the principle of removing them from power in the long term. So I think there is a bit of language here because you don't want to dignify the group. You don't want to say we're going to go into a written agreement with a group that is declared evil, a group that is holding hostages, that has murdered children and babies, a group

that has proven its brutality. But if they can have some sort of pauses, cooler heads to prevail, work to get some hostages out and maybe come up with what is the long term strategy? Who is going to govern? Who is going to govern the Gaza Strip once it's created, once it is once Hamas is disarmed, if if that day if that day comes. Right. Well, and if that day comes, Richard, finally, let's, final question has to do with the West Bank. You were in Ramallah with us a couple of weeks ago. We were talking to you from there. Violence has sprung up between those extremist settlers and Palestinians being attacked on the West Bank. President Biden even spoke of that in a joint press conference with the Australian prime minister. Is there already

an understanding that if even if Israel achieves its goals of disarming Hamas in Gaza, that the extremist settlers on the West Bank are going to cause a hell of a problem in moving toward that two-state solution. Oh, they already are. Since this war has begun, according to human rights groups, according to our own reporting, according to a new report from the United Nations, violence by extremist settlers has increased significantly since the October 7th massacre by Hamas. We saw some of it ourselves yesterday in multiple locations in the West Bank where Palestinians who are living there, moderate. We met an old, an elderly couple, Christian couple.

They were on their land picking olives. And a group of extremist settlers came over in order to carry out revenge and started beating them up and beat up an elderly couple and then went back to their settlement, unprovoked and no repercussions. And this kind of thing is happening all the time,

according to multiple human rights groups. And that is only inflaming tensions. It is inflaming tensions. One Palestinian activist from the Palestinian Authority who was beaten and humiliated told me it's like a balloon. You push pressure, you keep inflating it, inflating, inflating it. And one day it is going to explode. And he said that there is this concern that if that pressure from the settler violence continues, you're going to have an explosion of violence in the West Bank and here in Jerusalem on top of the ongoing war against Hamas in Gaza. Just so everybody who's watching knows why we're talking about this right now, along with what's happening in Gaza, is because what's been happening on the West Bank has shaped Israeli politics so much.

And extremists on the far right have played such a heavy hand in Netanyahu remaining in power that many secular Jews, and if you could speak to this, Richard, I know you've heard it there a lot. Many secular Jews are enraged by the fact that the government has paid so much attention to these extremists and even let some of them into the government. And what really angers the secular Jews there are they make the most demands, but are contemptuous of the military. So if you if people have to understand, so there's the Gaza Strip in the south, which is run by Hamas. Hamas is both a terrorist organization, has a military wing, but it also has a government function in that it governs the Gaza Strip. And right now, Israel is in a war to remove Hamas and destroy Hamas in Gaza. In the West Bank, which is not connected to Gaza, there is the Palestinian Authority, a far more moderate government that Israel hopes will become the government for both the West Bank and Gaza.

It's unclear if that's going to happen, but that's the idea. Within the West Bank, this separate territory, there are extremist settlers. The extremist settlers live in communities, and often, particularly in these days, in this climate of rage, they are leaving their settlements and attacking the Palestinians around them. The government of Israeli Netanyahu, or Prime Minister Netanyahu himself formed a coalition with many of these settler leaders in order to keep himself in power, in order to form a government so he could continue to govern this country and stay in power. He's been a dominant political

figure for the last 20 years. And yes, secular Israelis were saying, you are pandering to the extreme right. You are giving these people too much power. And now that government is at war. And these deep fissures in society are emerging. Going back to what we were saying initially, which is why this the timing is so critical for Secretary Blinken's visit right now. The U.S. Israeli troops have encircled Gaza City, which they're already in street fighting. They could enter into a much, much more dangerous phase of street fighting in the coming days in Gaza City. The settlers who were empowered by Netanyahu, who are helping him stay in power, are acting in ways that are far more emboldened than they have been in the past,

according to human rights groups and our own reporting. And the Israeli secular society that was opposed to Netanyahu, opposed to these politics right now, are very concerned about what is happening here, very concerned that this country is going down a path that will be difficult to recover from. NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel giving us a great look at the larger picture around this war. Richard in Jerusalem, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Richard Haass, let's bring you into the conversation now. As Richard mentioned, Secretary of State Blinken is on the ground in Israel. He's expected to ask Prime Minister

Netanyahu for some measure of restraint, not a ceasefire, but a humanitarian pause. Then he'll go on tomorrow to Jordan, where he will hear that Israel needs to stop what it's doing, that it needs to pull back entirely. So what is the line he's walking there? And what are the options on the table here between a ceasefire, a humanitarian pause, and everything else that's being discussed?

Yeah, let's start with your second point about going to Jordan. As I understand it, Willie, there's no longer an Israeli ambassador in Jordan. The Jordanians have removed their ambassador from Israel. And I think that what that tells us is all that's been accomplished on a positive side in the Middle East is somewhat vulnerable. We shouldn't assume there can't be backsliding. Jordan's a country that's predominantly Palestinian and is extraordinarily worried that instability, like we're seeing in Gaza, could see, you were just talking about with Richard Engel in the West Bank, could ultimately

spread. And that's one of our concerns, is to avoid instability showing elsewhere in the Middle East. In terms of what the Secretary of State's trying to do, I think what we're seeing is the administration trying to come up with something of a compromised position. On one hand, you have what Bibi Netanyahu and what this Israeli war cabin is doing, which is a large military operation, air and ground in Gaza. Whole idea is to remove Gaza from power,

essentially regime change, remove Hamas from power, essentially regime change, to remove Hamas from power, regime change there, eliminate it as a military factor, occupy it and then hand it off to somebody, all sorts of questions about the feasibility of that. And obviously the costs of that are extraordinarily high in terms of civilian casualties, and the administration is worried about the blowback from that. On the other hand, in New York, you've got people saying, we need to have an immediate ceasefire.

And the administration, I think for good reason, doesn't like that either, because that would mean Israel can't retaliate and can't deal with the continuing threat posed by Hamas. So I think what you're seeing Tony Blinken do is begin to look for a third option, a middle path that would allow Israel to continue the war, but there would be humanitarian pauses, in part to get aid in, maybe to get some hostages out. But really, the administration wants Israel to become much more discriminating in what it does militarily and not think this is the sort of thing you can resolve in a week or a month of military activity, but slow it down, think long term, and that also gives you a chance to introduce some political dimensions to Israeli policy.

Problem is, this Israeli government is uninterested in this. So I think what's going to be really interesting with Secretary Blinken's visit and the days after is right now, the United States and Israel have been really close since October 7th. President Biden has banked an awful lot of goodwill in Israel. The question is what happens, excuse me, when American foreign policy begins now, some space opens up between what this administration wants and what the government of Bibi Netanyahu wants. And I think we're approaching that point.

And Richard, interesting yesterday, 13 Senate Democrats put out a joint statement calling for a short term cessation. That's the term they're using. So we have ceasefire, cessation, pause, people using all different terminology to try to get the hostages out for one thing and also to get humanitarian aid. You kind of led me to my next question. Is Bibi Netanyahu going to be receptive to any of this? From his point of view, we have bloodthirsty terrorists. We know what they do. They just did it on October 7th, waiting to come and kill us. I'm not going to pause anything.

I'm going to go find every last one of them. What kind of partner is he in these attempts to get some kind of a pause? He's not a partner at all on that or anything else. Let's let's be let's be honest. And indeed, you know, it's always dangerous to speculate on people's political motives. But I think going back to your previous conversation, a lot of the mood in Israel is understandably for revenge. Bibi Netanyahu is extraordinarily vulnerable politically over what happened on October 7th on his watch, a lot of anger against him. So I believe he sees a massive military victory, quote unquote, as the best way of changing the debate, changing the narrative

in Israel. So I don't see him or those around them necessarily being being partners at all. But look, one thing that is totally predictable is the mood in Israel will change. You used the comparisons before Joe did to 9-11. And the American debate changed. The support for the Bush administration changed as the costs of Iraq mounted, as the prospects for success diminished. That will happen here. So over time, I believe Israel is on a strategy where popular support in Israel will fade as the military costs go up, as this does turn into something of a protracted guerrilla conflict. And there is no partner to work with. There is no one Israel can hand over authority for in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority can barely run the West

Bank. They're not going to run Gaza. The Arab world, they don't want a part of this. They want to stay away from the Palestinian issue. The United Nations, that's not a serious outfit when it comes to coming into a situation like this, because this wouldn't simply be peacekeeping, Willie. This would be peacemaking. You would have continued resistance from Hamas. The Israelis themselves as an occupying force wouldn't be seen as legitimate to hand over political authority to anybody else. So this is going to get increasingly, increasingly difficult. And again, the administration is trying to get the Israelis to think about the pace and the scale of what they're doing. Bibi Netanyahu is going to resist.

And I think that area of friction. And the question then is, how far does the administration go? Do they start saying, basically, disagreeing with the Israeli government in public and not just in private? And then what happens? That's where I think we're heading to.

Well, it certainly is gonna be difficult for the administration politically at home. Regardless, the pressure is going to be difficult for the administration politically at home. Regardless, the pressure is going to be increasing, certainly among people inside the Democratic Party, for them to move toward a ceasefire. There's going to be pressure from many others for just an unequivocal support of Israel. But make no mistake about it. While Hamas was planning this out, they knew they could rape. They knew they could torture. They knew they could burn Israelis. They knew they could commit the most vile and evil acts of savagery. And they knew this point would come. You may like it. You may not like it, what I'm saying here.

They knew before October 7th that this day would come, that they would commit the most heinous acts, the most evil acts against the Israeli people, against babies, against children, against Holocaust survivors. And then Israel would go in and try to destroy their terror networks. And then collectively, the world would rise up and say, you must stop because, of course, Hamas hides behind civilians. And so that's where we are, Jonathan O'Meara. And it's a very difficult position for the White House and other American politicians, knowing that this is Hamas's strategy. It's always been Hamas's strategy. Launch missiles, kill Israelis,

and then run back and hide in population centers and actually put underneath hospitals infrastructure for your terror network, knowing that the calls for a ceasefire would be overwhelming. That's where we are. And you have obviously the Biden administration, certainly the political side of the Biden Biden world, the campaign, understanding that they are taking a significant hit not only within the Democratic Party, if you look at the polls, but also politically, more importantly for the campaign in the state of Michigan. So they're balancing

quite a few things. I certainly know that Tony Blinken's not thinking about that, nor is Jake Sullivan, nor is Lloyd Austin. But I'm sure there are people inside the White House who who are thinking that at the same time, there's also an undercurrent, a very strong undercurrent in the administration that you just don't let terrorists rape and kill and burn human beings and sit back and say, well, let's have a ceasefire. Let's all get along. It's just not going to happen. The Israelis aren't going to let it happen. Yeah, the political arm of Biden world certainly is concerned about where this could go. More and more Democrats speaking out,

calling for at least some sort of pause. Concerns about the Arab American and Muslim American voters in a number of swing states, Michigan in particular, worried about anger among young voters who seem to be really opposed to the U.S. just helping Israel here with a blank check. That's a concern. But the certainly the national security piece of the Biden world is not. Now, Secretary of State Blinken is carrying a message of calling for Israel to have a humanitarian pause. The president himself has endorsed that publicly a couple of times in in recent days. But there is a divide.

Not everyone in the government, not everyone in Washington thinks that's a good idea. In fact, there's even some divide among some of the military experts we have on this show. Admiral Stravitas in favor of pause. General McCaffrey retired also very much against, says that even a pause plays into Hamas's hands. It's a tricky issue. And it's also one that the White House is trying to think about next steps. Secretary Blinken is going to start having that conversation with the prime minister today as to what comes next in Gaza. Now, this could be weeks, months from now before the fighting ends. But what happens in Gaza next, Willie? And there's also conversations in the Biden administration, very informal ones. But

I reported this week that they're starting to look beyond Bibi Netanyahu, that they don't think that he'll be able to survive politically. What happened on October 7th? No one's suggesting there's a leadership change coming anytime soon. Bibi Netanyahu, the prime minister, will be in charge of this phase of the operation. But they can see the poll numbers there in Israel. He's deeply unpopular. And the White House is starting to think about what happens next. And hinting to Netanyahu, he should think about what he's leaving to his successor, whatever that might be. And as you say, that may be a ways off still. Let's bring into the conversation spokesman for the Israeli Defense Forces,

Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner. Lieutenant Colonel, thanks for being with us this morning. So let me get your reaction to the conversation we've been having, this idea of a ceasefire, number one, your thoughts on that, or something like a humanitarian pause, meaning stop the fighting for however long that may be, a couple of days perhaps to get humanitarian aid into the civilians of Gaza and perhaps to get some of the hostages out as well. What's your reaction to both of those ideas? Good morning. We are actually on day 28 of our war against Hamas, a war we didn't choose,

a war that was forced upon us by the most brutal, merciless organization who, as Joe rightly pointed out, brutally massacred, raped, burned, and abducted some 240 or so Israelis and foreign nationals into the Gaza Strip. So the question about will there be a ceasefire or a humanitarian pause, a humanitarian hiatus, is not something that the IDF is actually concerned with at this time. We are concerned with destroying and dismantling Hamas, making sure that they never have the power of government again in order to conduct such atrocities. Indeed, we have encircled the Gaza City, which is a stronghold, a fortress of the terrorist organization, the terrorist government,

and the terrorist army of Hamas. We are pushing forward. We are taking out their leaders. We are making sure that their leadership is pursued. The battalion commanders, the division commanders, the operatives, the terrorists themselves, they are all being pursued. So while we look at what Secretary of State Blinken has said, and of course, we're very attentive to our American allies, and we're very grateful for the support, we are pushing forward in order to achieve our military goals. With respect to the humanitarian efforts, we understand

completely that the humanitarian component of this war is also a component that supports the war effort. And that is why we've seen an increase in humanitarian supplies coming in in the last week. And we're up to almost 100 trucks a day, and that will probably increase with medical supplies, food supplies, water, the things that the people need. And indeed, shifting people and keeping the people shifting from north to south will help get people out of harm's way. And that's what something we've been trying to encourage for the last three weeks, three and a half weeks now, whereas Hamas, they've been trying to keep people put in harm's way. This is precisely the difference between what we're doing and what they're doing. Well, Lieutenant Colonel, as you point out, tomorrow will be four weeks since October the 7th. You all have been calling for citizens, civilians in

northern Gaza to move south, giving them almost a month now to do that. Can you speak to the challenge of fighting in northern Gaza, around Gaza City, when Hamas, we know for a fact, puts civilians in front of them, that they put their tunnels under hospitals, refugee camps, places like you all have bombed a couple of times this week. From a military point of view, what is the challenge there? So we obviously are in close contact with our U.S. colleagues and friends who have lots of lessons learned on this type of battlefield. And of course, we are very attentive to that. It is a huge challenge for any military to mobilize and operate in urban areas, urban areas which are densely populated or in urban areas that have

become fortified positions. We've seen over the last few days extensive combat, face-to-face combat with the enemy. We're engaging them in their positions, in their locations, where they are hiding out, where they're concealing their weapons, where they're utilizing UN facilities to launch rockets at us, where they're positioning their tunnels beneath mosques. These are all part of the battlefield. And indeed, when we are calling people to evacuate from those areas, it's precisely to get them out of harm's way. This is a huge challenge. We are very sensitive to this issue. We understand and operate within the laws of armed conflict with the principles of distinction between civilian population and the terrorists on one hand, and also the military necessity. There is no way to get to rid this world

of Hamas without going in and dealing with Hamas. And we've been saying for several weeks that we will be mobilizing. That is why we saw a huge movement of people going from north to south. Unfortunately, it was Hamas that has prevented so many other people from not going. And I would say, unfortunately, it really is a sad image and the images of devastation of civilian life. But all of those civilian lives, nevertheless, are on the shoulders of Hamas. It's worth noting for our viewers, if they don't remember this, that it was Hamas's leader sitting in the safety of a Four Seasons hotel in Doha who was ordering Palestinians to stay in a war zone and to not leave the war zone. So that does show just how callous they are. As we've said here, for Hamas, when a Jew dies, that's a victory for

Hamas. When a Palestinian dies, that's a victory for Hamas. With that being the bitter reality that you face, Colonel, let me ask you, how many Palestinians, how many Gazans are left with Israel imploring for weeks that they leave and Hamas leaders from the safety of their their plush hotels in Doha, ordering them to stay in the war zone and and and be in the crossfire because they want they want Palestinians to be killed. So the world will call for a ceasefire. I'm curious, how many Gazans are left? Have most fled south or how many remain in the war zone? people have gone south. Of course, Gaza City is a very densely populated area, so there are several hundreds of thousands still there which did not listen, did not adhere to our call. And I'd like to add, Joe, just to what you were saying. We've heard just in the last few days still leaders of Hamas saying October 7th will be committed again and again and again if they get the opportunity. This is why the regime change

that Richard pointed out, or what I call the paradigm change, it has to happen. We need the world to rally around Israel, support our efforts to get people out of harm's way, and make sure that Hamas goes and we are rid of them once and for all. Yeah, you know, we've heard about war crimes and violations of the rules of war, obviously putting terrorist infrastructure in civilian buildings or underneath civilian hospitals, also obviously against the rules of war. I'm curious, what direct evidence do you have? We've heard about headquarters underneath a hospital. Do you have direct evidence? Do you all have direct findings of this happening across Gaza? If so, where specifically? So we've been encouraging people to go precisely from the north because that is

the stronghold, that is the fortress. it's specifically Gaza City. But not only, we've seen in the last few days the combat taking place in places like Beit Hanun or Jabalia. And these are places that we are finding that we knew before where they positioned themselves, where the tunnel systems that they put beneath schools and mosques and hospitals, how they are utilizing these areas for launching strikes, for attacks on one hand, but also for rocket strikes against the heart of Israel. And this is how we are seeing the entire system that Hamas has utilized. They got over $100 million every year from Iran to build this terrorist army. They subordinated all of the tools of government that any regular government has. Governments, we expect our governments to take care of the civilians. They utilize all of the tools of government that any regular government has. You know, governments, we expect our governments to take care of the civilians.

They utilize all of the tools of governments to build this infrastructure, this infrastructure of terror and destruction and the murder machine that they have with the tunnels, with the rockets, with explosive drones, with command and control centers and the subterranean capabilities, which is a huge challenge. We are fighting a merciless enemy that has no regard for life, I'd say Israeli or Palestinian, as you rightly pointed out. And we are determined to change the paradigm once and for all. It will free Israel from the threat, from that looming threat, that sword of death that they want to wield above our heads. But it will also free the people of Gaza from this merciless organization. And it's so important to remember they have, in effect, been held hostage there by Hamas since 2005.

Spokesman for the Israeli Defense Forces, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate you being with us. Willie? Richard Haass, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate you being with us. Willie. Richard Haass, thank you as well. We'll be reading your analysis this morning on the Substack letter, home and away. The piece of language you've taken issue with is when Donald Trump refers to his children as his kids. I just, I just. Well, there's something about, so the kid, the children are 45.

Yeah. Yeah. Like Don Jr. is five years away from being qualified for AARP. Right. That's just a fact. Yeah. Yeah. Willie and the kids yesterday, obviously, obviously on the stand. It was pretty fascinating. I think Eric tried to burp the alphabet at one point when he didn't have any testimony to give. But how was Seth last night? He's the best. It's just a great, fun, relaxed show. But that is my pet issue that Donald Trump had that social media post a couple of days ago. Stay away from my children as if they're toddlers, but they're 45 and 39 years old and running a major company. Let's talk to former litigator and MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Rubin, who was there yesterday for testimony from both Don Jr.

and Eric Trump. I guess Lisa will call them the adult sons of Donald Trump. Maybe that's a little bit better. So you saw it with your own eyes. What was it like in court yesterday? You know, Willie, I'll say this again. Every day in court on this matter is like a roller coaster. And certainly yesterday was no exception. The examination of Donald Trump Jr. was one that seemed really calm and placid on the surface, but was actually really damning if you think about what they got him to admit. And the fact that it was relatively pleasant in terms of the exchange with him and the attorney general's lawyer doesn't disguise the fact that Donald Trump Jr., who his father famously refers to as a kid in order to infantilize him, was actually the co-trustee of what effectively was the Trump Organization for the entirety of the presidency. And in that capacity, he not only signed financial statements over to banks and lenders,

he certified that that information was true and accurate. And he did that to Deutsche Bank repeatedly. He also did that to Mazars, who are his accountants. Donald Trump Jr. wants everybody to think that he got a fast one over on people by saying, oh, God, what did I do? I relied on accountants to do accounting. But the problem is when you're a fiduciary and when you're a trustee, you don't get to pass that buck. The buck stops with you. And Donald Trump Jr., who's outsourced everything in his life, wasn't really willing to conceive that. So, Lisa, let's talk about the other adult Trump son, Eric Trump, who close watchers of the

Trump organization recognize in recent years, he's actually the one who's been more in charge. He's the one the father left in control of some of his major projects, including overseas golf courses, some here in the States as well. Give us a sense as to what came from his testimony yesterday. So Eric Trump was much more combative. He refused to give an inch. And that's particularly true when he was confronted with some of his deposition testimony from earlier in the case. John, you know that he's given two depositions in this case, one infamously during the investigative stage where he took the fifth hundreds of times, but a later one this last May where he did testify for seven hours and repeatedly disclaimed that he knew people who were involved in appraisals

and evaluations, that he was involved in the statements of financial condition. And he was confronted over a series of hours with document upon document that showed that irrespective of his faulty memory, that just simply was not the case. So, Lisa, coming up next week, we have to look forward to Ivanka Trump and the former president himself. Ivanka Trump had asked for a delay in her testimony because the date fell on a school week and she has children was her argument. It looks like the judge rejected that. The judge did reject it. It's actually the appellate division. It's the intermediate appellate court in New York said, no, we're not going to let you stay your testimony.

You can continue with your appeal. But Ivanka is up for Wednesday. We should expect to see her then. And as you note, her father on Monday, how that's going to go is really anyone's guess. I fully look forward to coming back here and telling you for yet another time that was the most bonkers day in court I have ever seen. And we should point out you have two children yourself and you are there in court every day. And thank you for that. We'll come back and talk to you next week. Former litigator and MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Rubin, thanks as always. A jury has found FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried guilty of all seven criminal counts fraud, securities fraud and money laundering that swindled thousands of FTX customers and lenders to its affiliated hedge fund, Alameda Research.

The 31 year old faces up to 110 years in prison. Sentencing is scheduled for March 28th. Joining us now, CNBC tech reporter Kate Rooney. Kate, good morning. So remind our viewers exactly what Sam Bankman-Fried, who was considered, I don't know, a year or two years ago, this genius who'd figured out and cracked the code on cryptocurrency, but turned out to be another fraudster, exactly what he was convicted of doing yesterday. Willie, good morning. It's great to see you. So Sam Bankman-Fried, a year ago, pretty much, his company went bankrupt. If you flashback to

really the height of his reign of the crypto empire, he was running this $32 billion company. He was on the cover of Forbes. He was worth about $26 billion himself. You flash forward to November of last year, company goes bankrupt in the span of a week. The velocity at which all of this happened is just eye-popping. So that happens. He now, in the last month or so, has been on trial in the Southern District. They accused him, the prosecution accused him, essentially siphoning about $8 billion in customer money from this crypto exchange he ran

to another sister hedge fund, an affiliated company. They said he was taking customer money. He was using it on himself, on luxury real estate in the Bahamas. He lived in this $30 million penthouse. He was spending it on celebrity endorsements. Tom Brady's name came up a bunch of times in some of the evidence. They showed pictures of him at the Super Bowl with Katy Perry and other celebrities, things like private jets, and then political donations as well. So they said he was enriching himself with customer money.

They had enough evidence to prove that. and the jury agreed in this case. It was really about criminal intent. Did he know that this was happening? The defense tried to claim that he didn't, that he was ignorant, that he didn't know about some of the issues at his crypto hedge fund and exchange, despite really being considered back then one of the smartest people in the room. He went to MIT. He raised billions of dollars from some of the smartest investors in the world.

The jury didn't buy it. They thought that he knowingly committed fraud and convicted him on all seven counts. So, Kate, tell us a little more about perhaps the ripple effects of this for the cryptocurrency industry writ large, which was so hot not that long ago, has really now been largely because of this, but other factors, too. Lots more trepidation and worries surrounding it. Tell us, what do you think its future is? Yeah, so it was absolutely a black eye for that industry. He was the biggest name, really. At one point, he was in D.C., felt like every other week. He was helping frame some of the legislation around cryptocurrency, and lawmakers really looked to him as the credible face in this industry. And now he's convicted of a massive, what the U.S.

attorney called one of the biggest financial frauds in U.S. history. The trust factor is going to be a big issue going forward. Cryptocurrency has already had this sort of aura of criminal activity. And it's been used in a lot of, there's been talk of it being used for nefarious activity from its beginning. That really is one of the reasons cryptocurrency existed 10 years ago and was founded. So it's definitely a credibility issue.

As far as prices, it actually, interestingly, has sort of been divorced from what's happening in the markets. People have been taking this, or investors at least have seen this as this idiosyncratic event, a case of criminal fraud. And the optimists out there say there's still a lot of opportunity on the investing side and have sort of tried to separate what's going on in this criminal trial from some of the investment opportunities.

I was going to ask, how skeptical are the banks, the institutional, the big banks on Wall Street and the big investment houses? How skeptical have they become of crypto? I think it gives them the opportunity to sort of own this space. In the beginning, the crypto people out there and some of the early adopters were saying, oh, we don't need the banks. We don't need the institutions. We can do this and you can trust us. And the whole industry was built on not needing a middleman or an intermediary. People now are convinced that you do need an intermediary. You need an adult in the room.

You need supervision. You need accounting. And you need people to make sure that there's not massive fraud going on. So if anything, if the banks were interested in getting into this, it's their opportunity here to say, well, if you're going to do something like this, let us be involved so that we can help you with the things like accounting that have gotten so many of these crypto companies in trouble. There's a lot of other names, not only FTX, that have gone bankrupt in the past year. A lot of it had to do with taking on way too much risk, lending, and then also really gambling with customer money. I'm just looking at an old quote

from Jamie Dimon, of course, the JP Morgan CEO who calls crypto a hyped up fraud, says it's a waste of time and that they are the tokens are like pet rocks that they're meaningless. So Warren Buffett too has been a massive skeptic and so has Charlie Munger. They called it rat poison. So there are definitely some holdouts that have no interest in getting into this. It's also been described as the greater fool theory. Whoever is going to pay the most, someone will pay more than you will. And that's sort of the entire theory, at least according to Warren Buffett on this. So one of the most well-known successful investors of our time wants nothing to do with Bitcoin. So I think there's a lot of people that see him as the more credible guy in this and would follow his advice. But absolutely not

a good thing for the credibility of the industry. No. And now Sam Bankman-Frieden, in many ways, the face of this, facing 110 years in prison. CNBC technology reporter Kate Rooney. Kate, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Live picture at 5.55 in the morning of Houston, Texas, where the former president of the United States was last night for a rally. Trump took the stage to a version of the national anthem recorded by imprisoned January 6th rioters. He then said this. Thank you very much. And you know what that was? That was I call them the J6 hostages, not prisoners. I call them the hostages. What's happened? And it's a shame. So, Joe, there's Donald Trump calling the people who attacked the United States Capitol, who beat up police officers with American flags,

who desecrated the people's house, calling them hostages. And I just have to say, as a patriotic person to watch the president of the United States, the former president stand there in front of American flags, saluting, saluting a group, that group of people who were in jail for what they did on January 6th. It's pretty repulsive. Well, and if you ask the families of the four police officers who died, they will tell you it was those people responsible for their deaths. It's those people that took American flags that our servicemen and women have taken into battle for centuries to defend freedom here and across the world.

They used those flags as instruments of death, hoping to kill officers, and as you said, desecrated the people's house. And these are the people who tried to overthrow American democracy because they believe Donald Trump's lies. They believe Donald Trump's lies. And there we have police officers being attacked from all sides, having their heads crushed indoors. Police officers taken to the ground, having bear spray used against them. Just this is just this is just pure, pure evil. And speaking of that, how deeply offensive that Donald Trump

is now moved from calling these people, these thugs, he's gone from calling them political prisoners to now comparing them to Jews who were ripped out of their homes.