Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/13/25

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Death toll in California wildfires climbs to 24 with strong winds to continue

I grabbed him by the hand. He couldn't even barely would get dressed as he was trying to drag himself in the car. He had his phone, a charger around his cable and his walking cane. And I dragged him in the car. The ambers were coming in the car at the same time. It's like we're living in alternate reality. I still don't feel like it's real. Even this morning I was like, no, the house is still there. We'll be able to go back. And I was like, no, it's gone. Everything is gone.

It's a couple from Southern California describing their frantic escape from the wildfires, helping a neighbor make it to safety as well. This all comes of course, as the raging wildfires have claimed more lives. We're going to bring you a live report and the latest forecast straight ahead. Meanwhile, it's a busy week in Washington with the first confirmation hearings for Donald Trump's cabinet picks. We're going to go through what you can expect to hear on Capitol Hill this week, and we're going to have a look at President Biden's final week in office and preview his farewell

address to the country. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It's Monday, January the 13th, and with us this morning, we have co-host of our fourth hour, Jonathan LaMere, MSNBC political analyst Elise Jordan. She's a former aide to the George W. Bush White House and State Department and U.S. Special Correspondent for BBC News, Caddy K. Caddy, a few things have jumped out in this morning's paper to me. Let me read a couple. One from the New York Times. The authorities reported making some headway on Sunday in which the fight against these fires, which are still burning out of control and have devoured a combined area larger than the city limits of San Francisco, Boston, or Miami.

It's extraordinary, the size and scale. Also, while these firefighters and heroes, first responders, are fighting the fires and fighting to save lives, the Wall Street Journal has a front-page story, biggest story across the front, that talks about LA officials' race to fight rumors and conspiracy theories and how that's getting in the way of what they're trying to do. There, the Wall Street Journal writes, LAPD Public Information Officer Scott says, We're trying to battle the most devastating natural disaster in Los Angeles history. It takes people and it takes time to track down or debunk social

media rumors. It takes us away from doing important things. Fast proliferating online falsehoods are forcing public officials nationwide to adopt a new job when crisis strikes their community. Their duties now include beyond saving lives, knocking down the inevitable wave of half truths and conspiracy theories, some wild, some believable, that have lately become a part of every major public emergency. And they were talking this time about a post by Alex Jones on X that 29 million people saw, saying that LA firefighters were battling the blazes using ladies' handbags and buckets because officials donated equipment to Ukraine.

Of course, just a complete bald-faced lie, and also, of course, allowed to be spread 29 million times on X. And, of course, making the work of those heroes and first responders even more difficult because resources taken away, because they have to debunk crazed conspiracy theories. This fire is continuing, for the most part, to be out of control. And as the Times says now, tearing areas up, devouring out areas larger than the combined sizes of Boston, Miami, and San Francisco, Cady. Yeah, I read that Wall Street Journal story. It was extraordinary. And actually, what it is, of course, is that firefighters were using canvas bags.

All firefighters apparently carry these canvas bags because sometimes it's easier and quicker and more effective to carry the water in those bags, throw it on a small fire to put out the embers than it is to try and go to a fire hydrant with a fire truck. So, this misinformation is going to be a problem in every single natural disaster. and the situation is bad enough without people like Alex Jones spreading those kind of stories. Because if you look at what's happening, the death toll from the devastating wildfires in Southern California has now risen to 24. The Eaton Fire is now one of the deadliest in the state. is now one of the deadliest in the state. Officials say it's currently 27% contained while its spread has slowed down.

The fire though has already burned through more than 14,000 acres. That Palisades fire that we've heard so much about, that's now 13% contained and has burned through nearly 24,000 acres and it's still threatening residential areas. Meanwhile, the Hurst fire is 89% contained. That's the good news. And the other two fires that broke out last week are 100% contained. Now officials, though, however, are bracing for what could be, quote,

explosive fire growth. That's because strong Santa Ana winds have returned to the area with gusts of up to 70 miles an hour They're expected to last through Wednesday prompting red flag warnings from the Ventura Coast County coastline right to the Mexican border. Okay joining us now live from Pacific Palisades with the latest is MBC's Jay Gray. Jay, what do you have? Look the devastation here and we've all talked about it. We've all seen the video, which doesn't do it justice, by the way, but it's overwhelming. It's unimaginable.

Look behind me, and you can see it. This area looks like the aftermath of a bombing attack. It is devastated from the flames, from those fighting the fire. And this type of devastation stretches for miles. In other areas, there's just simply nothing left, no clue of what stood before the flames. And as you talk about, there's growing concern that we could see another firestorm

over the next several days here. Let's talk about what's happening on the ground here in the Palisades and other areas that have been hit the hardest. National Guard staked out across the area a thousand more troops called in overnight. You've got law enforcement and firefighters that are constantly patrolling these areas that are locked down by the way. They're of course looking for hot spots, trying to make sure that they douse those where they can, but also preparing for those severe winds.

And that event, according to forecasters, likely to start really ginning up some time later this afternoon. You've got people, thousands, wanting to get back in and see what, if anything, is left of their homes. We saw a few people over the last couple of days getting in trying to find what they could and salvage anything they could from the rubble. That's been locked down. That's been closed off with these winds beginning to pick up again and what officials have said is that they don't expect to let anyone into areas like this until at least Thursday morning and it could be longer than that.

That will mean some of these folks have been out of their homes for over a week and just the agony of what they're going through. Sometimes they're not knowing can be as difficult as knowing what's happened. And so a lot of people looking to find their way back in and really assess what's happening. But if you wanna talk about cleanup,

if you wanna talk about recovery, if you wanna talk about recovery, you can't do that until the flames are under control. And right now, that's just not the case. Okay, NBC's Jay Gray, thank you. Let's go straight to meteorologist Michelle Grossman. Michelle, tell us more about those winds that Jay was just talking about in Southern California. Hi there, Katia.

We had a bit of a break over the weekend. We're gonna start to really see those winds picking up 50, 60, 70 miles per hour. The climate connection is we're drier. We're looking at those winds kind of staying in place. We have an atmosphere that is not moving, a big area of high pressure interacting with this area of low pressure.

And that's funneling these winds. So we're looking at really bone dry conditions as well. 10 million people impacted this morning and through Wednesday withing these winds. So we're looking at really bone dry conditions as well. 10 million people impacted this morning and through Wednesday with red flag warnings. That includes places like Ventura, Santa Clarita, Pasadena, Riverside, Temecula, Escondido. The place has already hit so hard and we will see those winds really gusting

and they're gonna stay in place for quite a while. Now the National Weather Service out of the LA office has issued a PDS, it's out of the L. A. Office h is called a particularly doesn't happen very oftens that we have extremely cr conditions really ramping same place Tuesday. Also

means a high risk for lar growth just like what we have an extreme risk. Tha color. Also critical risk in the red yellow is that elevated rest and we're seeing those fires burning so we have the eaten fire 27% contain Palisades fire at 13% Hearst fire doing much better 89% but worried about more fires were worried about these fires also expanding now as we

look at the winds right now not too bad again we had a bit of a break over the weekend we're looking at winds anywhere from 10, 20 miles per hour, but starting to ramp up. And we're going to see that big time later on today. We're looking at winds gusting near 50, 60 miles per hour, 70 miles per hour, certainly not out of the forecast. And this is why we have a atmospheric situation where we have this big area of high pressure

just pushing that storm track to the north. We're not seeing that rainy season and we're seeing those winds moving onshore as well. Back to you. Okay, meteorologist Michelle Grossman, thank you. Joe, I mean, this story, I'm in London. It is the only thing people are talking about here. It's leading the news, it's on the front of every newspaper.

It's just devastating. People can't believe how much destruction there's been from these fires. Yeah, it really is. I mean, the only comparison I can think of in my lifetime, Hurricane Katrina, as far as natural disasters go. This is just the size and the scale, the suffering, the destruction. It just seems unprecedented. And in the midst of all of that, Jonathan O'Meara, a lot of political infighting, and of course,

Donald Trump and Gavin Newsom, Donald Trump going after Gavin Newsom and local officials, but also local LA officials coming under fire from all sides. The New York Times this morning reporting in their lead story. Mounting criticism of Bass threatens grip on leadership, talking about the mayor. It writes, the mayor told the Times that if she was elected mayor, not only would I, of course, live here, but I would also not travel internationally. The only places I would go would be D.C., Sacramento, San Francisco, and New York in relation to L.A. The Times writes, that pledge has been spectacularly broken. Then they move over on A-14. They move over and they talk about how she left at a time when the warnings for extreme fire emergencies were up.

Now, though, the Times writes, her decision to leave the country at a time when the National Weather Service was warning of, quote, extreme fire weather conditions has set off a political crisis for Ms. Bass. And the question that the New York Times asks is, will she be able to command the respect and the authority she needs to see Los Angeles through its darkest time? Yeah, this is Mayor Karen Bass. She was in Ghana. She was in West Africa, attending the inauguration of a new president there when the fire in the palisades ignited. And as you mentioned, the Times is a good job of chronically she vowed to not travel overseas she said she

was open about how much you miss that she's a member of the House for relations committee. I spent a lot of time working on us africa relations spent a lot of time overseas but did make that pledge were she to be elected mayor that she would not travel abroad and certainly there's a long history of of mayors be caught a place when something does happen here in New York famously New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg was in Bermuda when a major blizzard pounded New York he was late getting back he was

able to his plane was able to land the last plane in fact to land at LaGuardia and he was able to oversee the response but took a lot of heat for not being there during the early hours of the storm. And as noted in this story, it's not like an earthquake, which of course cannot be predicted in any way, shape or form, but rather the National Weather Service had warned that these winds did present a real fire danger. She knew that was overseas anyway. Now she's defended herself saying that she was in constant contact while in Africa, while

in the plane on the flying back. But certainly there are real questions here, including some of her initial halting responses when she landed. Since then though, she has been holding news conference after news conference and saying that she understands how upset Los Angeles are there. And as Joe also just mentioned, President-elect Trump is criticizing a slew of California officials over their handling of the deadly wildfires in Los Angeles County. Yesterday in a Truth Social post, Trump called the state's leadership incompetent. He's also made claims about the state's water supply, suggesting that Governor Gavin Newsom is responsible for the lack of resources. Newsom responded

to the criticism in an interview with NBC's Meet the Press saying he has actually invited Trump to come to California to see the response firsthand. What we want to do in the spirit of an open hand not a closed fist is the president-elect I respect the office we have a president United States that within 36 hours provided a major disaster declaration over a text. We had support from the president of the United States, Joe Biden, with a hundred percent reimbursement, all the resources you could hope for.

Imagine constant communication. I'd like to extend that to the president-elect. I don't know what he's referring to when he talks about the Delta smelt and reservoirs. The reservoirs are completely full. The state reservoirs here in Southern California. That mis and disinformation, I don't think advantages or aids any of us. So Elise, of course, Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump have had a contentious relationship for years.

I traveled with Donald Trump on Air Force One. There was a fire in 2018 out in California, and that's when he criticized Newsom for not proper force management. That was a fire in 2018 out in California, and that's when he criticized Newsom for not proper force management. That was ablaze up in Northern California. And the war of words continues here in Newsom. Of course, we should note the political backdrop is rumored to be a possible 2028, you know, a presidential candidate. And of course, Los Angeles hosting the Olympics that year, too, we should remember. So the rebuilding job is going to be immense. But talk to us about just the sort of sad inevitability that a natural disaster like this becomes politicized.

What's striking about this one is it didn't wait till the disaster was over. It's still raging and Trump went after Newsom. Well, and for Republicans, Gavin Newsom is just low hanging fruit and an easy target to begin punching it before we even know what really exactly all went down here. Donald Trump has shockingly been somewhat ahead of the game a little bit on brush clearing and on the importance of the argument that that should happen before conservationists. And then there's the other argument on the other hand that you just got to let these

wildfires burn. And you know this way more than I do though we're going to talk to you David about your about your wonderful article but it it's it's going to just continue to be political football until we know a little bit more and I think the lack of control is what's killing people here. And we'll get to David Gelser just a moment on his new piece but Katty Iady, I mean, this is such a catastrophe. And Joe's comparison to Hurricane Katrina feels spot on. And it's not over.

And that's just it, is that the firefighters' heroic work there to try to contain these blazes. But there's only so much they can do against these winds that are going to ramp up today and potentially endanger a whole new swaths of what is simply a sprawling metropolis. Yeah, those firefighters must be exhausted now, right? And they are trying to draft in private firefighters, but you just need so much more manpower than is available at the moment.

And of course, for the people who have lost their homes, it is awful. Still, more than 100,000 Los Angeles residents are still under evacuation orders. Frustrations are growing for many families who just want to know whether their home is still standing or not. NBC News correspondent Ellison Barber has the latest on that. Do I just wait here or what? You can if you like. Growing frustration outside the Pacific Palisades. Massive lines of cars with residents waiting for hours, anxious to see what, if anything, remains in their homes. This is criminal dereliction of duty.

We do care. We want to get you back in your homes. Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna warning about criminal activity. People that do not belong in these disaster zones need to stay out or they're going to get arrested. On Saturday, two people were detained in the evacuation zone near Vice President Kamala Harris' home, according to officials. L.A. Fire Chief Kristen Crowley adding that it is too dangerous for many residents to go home. There are still active fires that are burning within

the Palisades area, making it extremely, extremely dangerous for the public. There's no power. There's no water. There's broken gas lines and we have unstable structures. Tell me your first last name. We met Shannon DeGroones when she walked up to talk to police. We're just hopeful to get a couple minutes to grab some things and and then get out of town. She was with her fiance she burns and she's 81 year-old mother Judy McElroy trying to get back to their Pacific Palisades home. We don't have any answers and there's a lot of different

information which is why I'm posted up here. Shannon couldn't get in. She told us about something she forgot to take my aunt passed away recently and she left me a small diamond. And I was saving to be able to afford to make it into a new ring. I asked for her address hoping that if we passed her house while we were reporting we might be able to help. A couple of hours later. We saw it.

Amazingly, it's still standing because if you look around just across the street, their neighbors not nearly as lucky. They told us to the door was unlocked because they had to evacuate so quickly. You can smell in here, it smells of smoke. I texted asking if she needed us to get stuff. She told us they needed some medicine for Judy, things she'd left behind as they scrambled to evacuate. We couldn't find the diamond ring but found the medical supplies. I saw these and I know you didn't ask for these but I saw these and I just...

Oh my god. I showed them videos of their home. Were the windows closed? Yeah, all the windows were closed. I was right! In the middle of chaos, a moment to help a family still looking at an uncertain tomorrow. That was NBC's Alison Barber. Some people getting lucky, but so many not.

Joining us now is General Secretary of the Salvation Army Southern California Division Major Anthony Barnes. Major, thank you so much for joining us. 100,000 people are under evacuation orders. How are they living? How are they coping? What's happening to all the people that can't be in their homes at the moment? Well, understandably, people are very concerned. They want to know what's happening with their

homes, whether their structures are still standing or not, people waiting, as was mentioned. And so we're doing our best to walk alongside those folks and bring a little bit of hope where we can share a meal, make sure they have their needs being met. And I just want to take a moment also to say thank you to the brave and amazing first responders that are fighting this fire, those that are keeping each neighborhood safe. It's so important the work they're doing. Yeah, putting themselves in incredible danger

with all of those fires. There are a lot of focus has been on the Pacific Palisades area, these incredibly wealthy homes, some of the celebrities that live there. But of course, we've also heard so many stories of middle class people, working class people who have lost their homes as well. And we know that California doesn't have much insurance for some of those homes.

How is the state and how are organizations like yours going to try and help people going forward? Because they could be out of homes for weeks or months. Well, the beauty of this community, these communities, I can say, given so many that have been affected, community agencies, our community partners, the government agencies, we have come together in just an amazing way to make sure

that we are completely serving each individual and family with the needs that they have, whether those are immediate or the needs going forward. It's been several days in now, folks are starting to think what is really going to happen next. Some folks want to leave town for a little bit and be with family, but they don't even have the resources to do that. And so we assist them that way. We make sure that those who can't and don't have another option, that they are taken care of as well. And so our community agencies, our community partners and government agencies

have to come together and I'm glad that we have. We have served this community. We will continue to serve this community. The Salvation Army is committed to being here well beyond the disaster. Such important work and will be so needed for weeks and months ahead. The General Secretary of the Salvation Army's

Southern California Division, Major Anthony Barnes. Thank you, Major, for being with us this morning. Thank you for having me. And as we noted a moment ago, the New York Times has a new piece out this morning about how climate change is supercharging disasters like these fires we're seeing out in Los Angeles. The report reads in part this way. As Los Angeles burned for days on end, horrifying the nation, scientists made an announcement on Friday that could help explain

the deadly conflagration. 2024 was the hottest year in recorded history. With temperatures rising around the globe and the oceans unusually warm, scientists are warning that the world has entered a dangerous new era of chaotic floods, storms and fires made worse by human caused climate change. The firestorms ravaging the country's second largest city are just the latest spasm of

extreme weather that is growing more furious as well as more unpredictable. Joining us now, co-author of that piece, David Gallas, he is a reporter on the New York Times climate team. David, thank you for being with us this morning. So tell us more about this piece and what you found in terms of how climate change played a role here, what we've seen out in Southern California, but how it is poised to do so with increasing frequency of disasters around the globe. This is just what scientists have been warning about for years and even decades.

As the planet warms as a result of continued emissions from fossil fuels, from agriculture, from just normal life that humans have to keep doing at this point until we make a full transition to cleaner energy, the planet's just getting hotter. We now know that 2024 was indeed the hottest year in recorded history, but that's no surprise. Before that, 2023 was the hottest year in recorded history, but that's no surprise. Before that, 2023 was the hottest year in recorded history, and each of the 10 hottest years on record have come in the last decade. We map that against the increase in severe,

and as you said, unpredictable natural disasters, and it leads directly to the kinds of fires we're seeing in Los Angeles right now. You know, this seems like a good time to repeat a story that I have repeated oftentimes during catastrophic storms. That is, when I was with a friend seven, eight years ago, a Republican who I think has probably never voted for a Democrat once in his life. He works at an insurance company. He's in charge of the actuarial tables. One of the top leaders there trying to predict how much money they're going to be paying out. He was complaining about all the money being paid out for natural disasters. I said, is climate change a reason? He just scoffed.

He said, look at these numbers. You would have to be a fool to not understand what climate change is doing to this country and the world. And David, I want to, along that line, I want to read here seven years later what you write that lines up exactly with what he told me several years ago. Wildfires are burning hotter and moving faster. Storms are growing bigger and carrying more moisture. Soaring temperatures worldwide are leading to heat wave and drought, which can be devastating on their own and leave communities vulnerable to dangers like mudslides and heavy rain.

Around the globe, extreme weather and searing heat killed thousands of people last year, displaced millions, with pilgrims dying as temperatures soared in Saudi Arabia. In Europe, extreme heat contributed to at least 47,000 deaths in 2023. And here's a key line regarding trends. In the United States, heat related deaths have doubled in recent decades. For those who say there have always been heat waves, there have always been mudslides, there have always been fires, yes they have. But David, as you report here,

as my friend in the insurance industry, a Republican friend told me, yes they have, but not at this extreme level. And here's another way to think about it. Billion dollar disasters, natural disasters that inflict a billion or more dollars or more of damage, used to come just a few times a year in a country like the United States. Now they're coming as many as a couple times a month. And we see it not just in Los Angeles, but let's not forget Jaina and the fires in Hawaii just a couple years

ago. Before that, it was Paradise, California. It was Santa Rosa, California. Fires took out whole neighborhoods in Colorado not long ago, and those are just the fires. It was just months ago that the Southeast was dealing with hurricanes Helene and Milton, and all of these disasters are exactly what scientists have warned are going to get more extreme as the planet keeps warming, as temperatures keep rising,

and as the atmosphere holds more moisture. Well, and David, you're exactly right. What's happening in California is happening in Florida because of extreme temperatures. I followed hurricanes across the South and in Florida for almost my entire life because I've lived here. The water's hotter than it's ever been. After Florida survived, I just barely got through one hurricane, we saw something I've never seen.

The hurricanes usually go across the Atlantic, and then they cut up into the Gulf, or they cut across the Atlantic. Here, out of nowhere, just to the east of Mexico, I think it was Milton. You had a hurricane, a Cat 5 hurricane, I believe it was, formed right in the middle of the Gulf and then shot straight toward Tampa. Again, again, that's something I've never seen. And the fact that it was that extreme, again, horrifying to Florida residents regardless of their political ideology. And that's that unpredictability that we've already talked about.

And here's another almost counterintuitive way that weather and especially large storms are starting to behave in the new era of climate change. And that's that some of these large storms are actually moving slower. So once they get over land and they have all that moisture, they actually start slowing down and just keep dumping rain on these vulnerable communities, which is yet another way that communities are having to grapple with this unpredictable climate-fueled weather. And just as we're seeing in Los Angeles, where there's only so much you can do to prepare for a firestorm when the winds are gusting at 100 miles an hour, there's only so much

you can do to prepare when it starts dumping a foot or more of rain in a day. That's the world we're in thanks to climate change now. Yeah. And as the scientists tell us, if we don't address climate change, then we will see more and more of these disasters. Reporter on the New York Times climate team, David Gellis, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

And still ahead on Morning Joe, the confirmation hearing for Pete Hegseth is set to take place tomorrow. We'll have a preview of what to expect as President-elect Trump's pick to lead the Defense Department goes before lawmakers. Plus Vice President-elect JD Vance appears to split with Trump on the idea of issuing blanket pardons for January the 6th rioters. We'll show you his new comments. We're back in just 90 seconds. In the morning time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is reportedly leaning toward the state's attorney general to fill the US Senate seat held by Republican Marcoio, who's been picked for Secretary of State. Ashley Moody is considered a favorite within some Republican circles. According to the Washington Post, if Moody is selected, DeSantis is also eyeing his own chief of staff to then become Florida's top law enforcement officer. Italy has freed an Iranian businessman

who is wanted by the US Justice Department and accused of illegally exporting drone technology. As part of the agreement, Iran released an Italian journalist. The Wall Street Journal reports the deal was coordinated with Donald Trump. It comes after Italy's Prime Minister flew to Florida this month to meet with the president-elect over concerns that releasing the Iranian businessman could anger the incoming administration. Big win for Georgia Maloney there. And Blue Origin, the rocket company founded by billionaire Jeff Bezos, had to stand down on an attempt to launch

its first orbital rocket overnight. The launch had been scheduled to take place from Cape Canaveral, Florida between 1 and 4 a.m. Eastern. But the company had to repeatedly reset its countdown clock before eventually postponing altogether. This was thought to be the long anticipated debut of Bezos's challenge to Elon Musk's SpaceX. At this point, no new launch date has been set. They have to fix the clock.

John, yeah, that is a problem. If the countdown clock doesn't work, how do you have a countdown the clock, John. Yeah, they will. That is a problem. If the countdown clock doesn't work, how do you have a countdown? That's right. That's the whole key feature of any of these rocket launchers to know when to go. But of course, we expect they'll reschedule that as soon as they

can. Shifting to other news now, Vice President-elect JD Vance is taking a stance on whom he thinks should and should not receive presidential pardons for their actions during the Capitol riot on January 6th, 2021. Vance made some new comments during an interview on Fox News Sunday, breaking slightly from what president-elect Donald Trump has laid out in his pardon plans. I think it's very simple. Look, if you protested peacefully on January the 6th and you've had Merrick Garland's Department

of Justice treat you like a gang member, you should be pardoned. If you committed violence on that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned. And there's a little bit of a gray area there, but we're very much committed to seeing the equal administration of law. And there are a lot of people we think in the wake of January the 6th who were prosecuted unfairly. We need to rectify that. In a December interview with NBC News, Trump said that on his first day in office, he would

pardon his supporters who joined the riot, adding they have been prosecuted in a, quote, very nasty system. Unlike Vance, Trump did not rule out pardoning those who pleaded guilty to violent crimes such as assaulting police officers or Joe. He said that a number of times and of course at the end of the day, it will be his decisions, not JD Vance. That's sad. I don't know that JD Vance is going to go out on his own and say, you know what, I think

I'm going to make policy for Donald Trump or I'm going to get four in front of Donald Trump. I think that's what people around Donald Trump have suggested he's going to focus on, the violent offenders not getting out, those that did the crimes that we see and talk most about, suggesting those around the president-elect, suggesting that it would be the nonviolent offenders that would get pardoned. But let's bring in right now the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale, and co-founder and CEO of Axios, Jim Van De Heide, to talk about this a little more. And, Jim, there are a couple of different

areas where, again, you've got to be reading the tea leaves or talking to people close to the president-elect to hear this sort of friction, their friction between how many people get pardoned, but whether you're talking about the pardons or whether you're talking about mass deportation. And like, for instance, that's a perfect example. On mass deportation, you talk to people close to Donald Trump, they say, we're not gonna get 14 million people out of here.

It's gonna, it would be inflationary as hell. Our own supporters don't want it. It would be bad for small businesses. It also would be terrible PR once again having mothers ripped from the arms of their children. That's not going to work. But we are going to focus like a laser on violent offenders who illegally immigrated this country, and we're going to get them the hell out of the country. So again, nobody knows what's going to happen on January 20th.

If you talk to people around the president-elect though, they will tell you he's focusing on the violent offenders primarily on immigration. And they'll tell you now, if you listen, and I heard this before as well, that they're not going to pardon those that committed the most violent acts on January the 6th. I think that's right, Joe. I think two things are true. You fully expect shock and awe a week from now. It is going to be a dramatic day. It's going to be as many executive orders on the topics that you think it will be.

But I think on those two topics, you're spot on. Are most of the January 6 folks going to get pardoned? Absolutely. Are the very, very worst? They're not. And I think that's what Vice President Vance was saying. And even Trump himself has been a little bit ambiguous on it. But they understand that the politics and maybe even the morality

of letting off the worst of the worst would be terrible, would have a backlash. But the same thing, if you listen to the people who are talking about running the border, the people actually involved, every single time they come back to the worst of the worst, the worst of the worst, which means is at least for the foreseeable future, yes, they're going to lock down the border. Yes, they're going to tighten asylum laws. Yes, they'll probably use the U.S. military. But I think the focus will be on criminals, at least for the foreseeable future. Because logistically and even from a budget perspective, it is impossible to do some of the things that

they talk about when they use the most dramatic language. So it's gonna be a wild week next week. I think it's now been telegraphed pretty clearly most of what is gonna be done and it will be done quick. And that's the thing to remember, Ali. Again, I'm so glad Jim brings it up. I mean, January the 20th, January the 21st, probably going to be a day with a lot of incoming. And it's going to be very interesting to try to figure out,

and it may take two, three, four weeks even, to sort through what is government by gesture, which Donald Trump focused on a great deal in his first term, and what's actually, as we always say here, separating out the ground noise from the signal, what actually is the signal here? Once again, we'll see what happens. A real indicator on whether he will follow or whether JD Vance is in fact following what Donald Trump has already said, and that is we're not going to

pardon the violent offenders. We will pardon those that got into the Capitol but did not commit any violent acts. It'll be very interesting to see how that breaks out. We should know pretty early on January the 20th, right? It's going to be tone setting. I mean, there's some reporting on the immigration front that our colleagues here at NBC News have done around the idea of some kind of moment on deportation and immigration here in the nation's capital that will give us a sense of if it is just them targeting the most violent of these undocumented immigrants or if it is something more broad, because, of course, you and I had this conversation with the panel just last week about the signal versus the noise.

Trump throws out a lot. It is the feature, not the bug, of the way that he likes to do policy making in the full view of the media. He likes to throw out a lot of options, and then you actually get to see where he lands. And that's the thing that's going to be important here, both from an executive order perspective, what they will do on immigration with people like Tom Homan,

who are dyed in the wool MAGA in terms of the way that Trump has wanted to enact policies around deportation around closing down the border around asylum all of those things that you and Jim talking have talked about are true and are going to be things we see action on the January 6 pardons as well that has been in the ether for a long time a lot of angst here in Washington and on Capitol Hill to see what that actually looks like but I think that you're right the

point that you made earlier in the show about JD Vance not going out on a limb and making policy that he's not allowed to make he's had his hand slapped for that before during the campaign. I think that this is a clear signaling of how it's going to be broken down and the tone that this administration is going to want to set on some of the more blanket promises now they're starting to 0 in at least in sort of opaque terms before they put it

on paper. And one thing to watch as Trump takes office and starts rolling out this policy, what sort of reaction does he get from members of the base, from right-wing media? Because we know in the past he's been very responsive to that and even sort of changed because of what he's heard on television most likely. So Ali, let's shift gears slightly. As noted, the inauguration a week from today, but even before then, some of the confirmation hearings

for Trump's cabinet members begin starting tomorrow with a trio, Doug Burgum, Doug Collins, and the headliner, Pete Hegseth, the Pentagon pick. NBC's reported that the FBI background check was completed and transmitted just on Friday and only to the committee chairs on this bit that's unprecedented how late in the game that report has been disseminated. Give us a preview as to what we should expect tomorrow when Hague Seth takes a stand starts

answering questions. This is the headliner Jonathan. It's been known to be the headliner since just late last year when Hague said was nominated and then embroiled in multiple controversies around allegations of misuse of funds when he was running a veterans organization, misuse and abuse of alcohol during multiple of his jobs, including most recently at Fox News. That's reporting that NBC News has really dug into. And then, of course, the sexual assault allegation and the lengthy police report out of California. Of course, those charges were never brought, but all of that is very much in the swirl. the sexual assault allegation and the lengthy police report out of California.

Of course, those charges were never brought, but all of that is very much in the swirl. When I talk to senators on the Republican and Democratic side, there was a lot of consternation about the fact that this FBI background check, many of them want to see it. Many of them have not yet gotten the chance to see it. Democrats also have concerns about how comprehensive that background check actually is. They would prefer to see it regardless of its level of comprehension than to not see it, but it looks like they are very likely to be going into this confirmation hearing tomorrow without the information in that background check. Nevertheless, my Democratic sources say that the way

they're going to treat these hearings is a way to sort of raise some early red flags that they can then point back to later in the administration if these folks are concerned. So really in the words of one source, setting the table to be able to say, we warned you about

this later on. But in order for Hegseth to even get to the full floor, and I know that this is getting a little bit ahead of the initial opening of the confirmation hearing itself, there are going to be key Republicans that he has to win over. We've talked a lot about Senator Joni Ernst.

She met with Hegseth twice. She has her own concerns. That's going to be one member of the committee where when these hearings are going on, yeah, we're going to look at what Democrats are doing. But what is Joni Ernst asking? And is it a sign that she's either on board with many of the members of her party who are getting on board, or is she not?

Jim, Elise here. Following up on that, there's a lot of volatility, sure to say, and anything could happen once these hearings start. But of the big four, of the four most controversial nominees, Pete Hegseth, then you have RFK Jr., then you have Cash Patel, and then Tulsi Gabbard, who do you think is the least likely to get through?

If you talk to Republicans right now, I think every single one that we've talked to wants all four to get through, believes all four will get through, unless something new is presented during those congressional hearings. So if we're just litigating the things that are the known knowns in public, I think all four get through. I know there's a lot of work being done, particularly on Hegseth by Democrats, to try to get somebody involved in the various allegations against him to testify, to go public, so that they have new information to tie it to. So far my understanding is there's not been a lot of luck in getting that done and so unless that happens, Republicans want to unite, want

to be able to give Trump the cabinet that he wants, whether people like it or not. He won and they believe that he has a right to have it. So and I think you saw what Jody Ernst, like listen like, you gotta be one hell of a tough person with the skin of a rhino to take the crap that you have to take on social media, advertising, back in your state. If you're thinking of running again, if you worry about a primary, there's been a lot of money,

there's been a lot of agitation, there's been a lot of threats about what happens if you don't support the nominees. And so there just aren't that many people that are like, hell yeah, sign me up for that. I want to be the person to tank one of these nominees. So it would take something new, I think, to do that. That said, it would be extraordinary to see Joni Ernst, a woman who's been a champion of women in combat, a woman who's been a champion of women in combat, a woman who's been a champion of women

who have been sexually abused and harassed, it would be extraordinary to see Joni Ernst of all people bow down to the pressure because of Twitter or because of X or because of Metta and deciding that, well, she can't stand up for women in combat. She can't stand up for women who've been sexually harassed and abused.

And again, Hexsett's own mother, despite what she said later on, own mother wrote a letter to him accusing him repeatedly of abusing women. And so for Jodie Ernst to somehow decide that it's OK to support Pete Hegseth's nomination because she had a couple of bad days on Twitter. Huh. Wow. We'll see what happens. Long way to go.

Hey, Jim Vande Hei, I've got to tell you, I'm not sure how I would have held myself together if I had been on TV the morning after Alabama lost to Michigan. I must say, you are a pro. You've kept your head down. You haven't talked about the Packers once. We appreciate you being on. So sorry things went the way they did. I'm curious, what do you think the Packers need to pick up in the draft? I have the skin of a rhino. I don't know it

sucked man. We need defensive help. We need a cornerback. We need a wide receiver one. Give us any one of those and we'll have a happier conversation next year. That that sounds good and Ali Vitale are you going to carry the commander's banner this morning for the people of Washington? I have no choice. I mean the Giants suck so I need to pick up a team that isn't absolutely abysmal We could agree on that. I Think we all I think this is one place that all of America can hold hands reach out and And and agree so thank you guys so much for being with us this

morning CEO of Axis Jim Van De Hei and the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale. It is so great to have you on board. Thank you both so much. Coming up, Pablo Torre is going to be here to break down the NFL and college playoffs. Morning Joe, coming right back. Perfect. Quick throw. Intercepted. Eric Murray picks six. Touchdown Texans. Second goal. No sack. Quick throws. Someone's got to win one on one.

Jackson flushed out. Extends. Throws on the run. Touchdown. Big play here. Trying to go up. Flushed out, extends, throws on the run, caught, touchdown! Big play here, trying to go up top for it. He wants to run for it, Jim, he wants to scope it in his legs, he's trying to find it.

It wasn't there, so now he's got to throw it deep to the end zone. And is that caught? Yes! Ty Johnson scrapes it off the ground, above the ground for the touchdown. Roll in here, quick throw here, just gonna catch by a guy who runs over his man, still at his feet and he scores! From 37 to send Washington to the final eight. The Washington Cup is on the up right and it is in! They doink their way to the differential round! The sound of a dynasty. Doink. And it goes in.

Those are some of the biggest moments from the NFL's wild card week and the Washington commanders get their first playoff victory since 2006 beating the Bucs last night on a walk-off field goal that bounced in off the upright the commanders are going to be facing the Detroit Lions and the divisional round commanders we hardly knew ye. Let's bring in right now the host of Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Art Media MSNBC's contributor Pablo Torre. Hey Pablo before we we get into the specifics of the games, I just want to talk about generally what we saw this weekend. First of all, we saw a lot of really bad games.

But secondly, you got the sense, you and I were complaining I think last year that there were a lot of mediocre teams. It was just one of those years, not a lot of standouts. By the end of this weekend, I thought, my my god we have five, maybe four and a half great teams. The Lions. You've got the Chiefs of course. The Bills. The Ravens. And my four and a half team is the Eagles. If the Eagles get their passing attack going and everything clicking, they're gonna be a great team too. I've got to say right now and I cannot believe I am

there, I've got to say of all those teams, if I were coaching the team I would not want to face right now would be the Ravens with Lamar and Derek Henry. What a deadly combination. Yeah Lamar's probably to be the MVP at this point. We've seen the horse race develop in the closing weeks of the season. Josh Allen, Lamar, was it going to be Saquon? I think the answer is Lamar right now. We know this also via the straw pulling.

So like the all pro teams have been voted. Lamar did get the nod for the first team over Josh Allen. And when you look at how the, I mean, look, the Ravens going to get the Bills. Just skip ahead to next week that is the game of the year and it's because we have these 2 teams sort of mirror images of each other and incredible starting quarterback with an incredible running attack, but my Jackson Joe.

The whole knock on him previously had been he's a runner is he really a thrower and now we're seeing Lamar the surgeon Lamar the clinician the guy who can pick you apart and the Steelers I mean look the story on the Steelers they've lost five in a row to close out the season they have not won in five games and so Lamar Jackson to your point basically has a as a cakewalk over a team that didn't really have expectations by the time we started the postseason but big picture to just return us to that zoomed out perspective he started with. I do think the saving grace for the NFL every season is that it's random in

a way that always provides mess and entertainment. The ball is oblong as they say. I don't think anybody else says that actually. I say that all the time, the ball is oblong. The shape is engineered for randomness. So some stuff will happen, but you're right. The top four teams, there's a really big drop off, I would say, before you get to the Eagles,

which again, you're right. The defense is the story, but the offense has been a total zero so far. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I mean, and it is interesting. Justin Herbert, obviously a terrible, terrible weekend, but what he needs to remember, and I'm sure he's got coaches around him telling this, Lamar Jackson is underperformed in one playoff game after another.

Up until now. That's why seeing Lamar come out the way he did this past weekend is so exciting for Ravens fans because he's here. He's ready to play the big game and it's almost unfair that after next week either Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson have to go home. They're both so good. Yeah, I mean look the Josh Allen story by the way, the trajectory of this right talk about Lamar having struggles in the postseason true. Josh Allen headed into the league

was a guy that all of the smart NFL people were like, this guy is never gonna do literally stuff like what we're watching in this clip. He was the guy who was very inaccurate coming out of North Dakota State. And it was just sort of like, okay, I command one double A, excuse me. And it was sort of like, well, is he going to develop?

And the answer is yes. The answer is throws like the one. Is he a Wyoming guy? Wyoming, exactly right. North Dakota State is another very disappointing quarterback that the 49ers drafted. I digress. Josh Allen, Joe.

Yeah, I just think that as much as his story has been, the guy who was second fiddle to Mahomes and the AFC, I think that Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson is sort of the heavyweight fight poster that you want to see. It is the exciting matchup that, yeah, probably what, 30, approximately one zillion people will be watching this weekend. A zillion. They're amazing. Jonathan Ramere, I mean, Josh Allen,

how do you not love this guy? Guy from Wyoming that was dissed by other teams, he comes to Buffalo, he is Buffalo. You know, the guy seems to embody the Buffalo just fighting spirit, the Bills Mafia loves this guy. And yeah, again, next it is it is the heavyweight fight you want to see Josh Allen versus Lamar Jackson.

Yeah he's a perfect fit for that city and I love that the Bills new stadium which is building in the parking lot of the old one. No roof still to be outdoors. They want to play with with the elements. Let's talk about Paul I had a

couple of other games first we should know the Texans do beat the Chargers. So the Chiefs draw very favorable matchup there at home against the Texans are one half while the Ravens and Bill slug it out in the other half of the AFC NFC, we've got Commander's Lions. That'll be Saturday night in prime time. We don't have the other matchup yet, though, because we still have one more game

to play as the NFL continues to stretch out these playoff weekends. We've got a game tonight. Let's talk about that for a minute. It's Vikings Rams playing, though, in a neutral site being played in Arizona because of the fires in Southern California. Vikings I know they lost to that season finale to the Lions and somewhat lost in somewhat convincing fashion but I think they're still the better team here. Yeah the Vikings are the better team the bad news for the Vikings is that in the regular season they lost to the Lions season, they lost to the Lions,

and then they lost to the Rams in that order in October. And now they basically have that same path here again, where, okay, you lost to the Lions, it blows out the regular season, and that hyped regular season matchup, and now they get the Rams. And the Vikings are better. They are, I expect them to win.

Again, the story of quarterbacks in the NFL We've talked about it already the rejuvenation of these guys who were given up on Sam Darnold is that guy? Sam Darnold is that guy and Sam Darnold is somebody who now it's just really hard to write off anybody But if the right version of Sam Darnold shows up the guy who is not seeing ghosts as he was once famously caught seeing ghosts as he was once famously caught overheard saying on the sideline as a jet that made everybody think this guy is broken give up on him if the guy who is not seeing phantoms of himself out there is the guy who shows up this should not be that hard the Viking secondary plus that quarterback attack they have the coach of the year and Kevin O'Connell I think it's just a

really really favorable batch up outside of the history recently in October but the commander can we just talk about the commanders for a second? Just to put a finer point on this, there is no more romantic word in the English language right now than doink. And I mean this, there's a, there's a Dow of doink that I want to just establish here because when you hear that noise as a football fan, if you are the sort of team that has not won a playoff game in 20 years, about 7,000 football fan if you are the sort of team that is not want to play off game in 20 years about 7,000 days if you're a team that had to

change its name its ownership structure, it's GM, a tech coaches quarterback all of that it's all it's automatic PTSD. In this case, yeah, you don't get and it goes in right the rarest thing that happens when you hear that noise is victory. But this is the story of Jaden Daniels Joe they have won 5 games in a row on the last play from scrimmage and yeah I talk to you we sing Baker Mayfield praises all of the time. But he fumbled the ball the 4th quarter it was it was not

great and Jaden Daniels comes out of this looking like he is, in fact, the guy who exercised all of the demons for a team that has no shortage of them. A really impressive, impressive playoff win for the commanders. Truly impressive. Yeah, I mean, the guy's great. I mean, what an incredible rookie year he has had.

Yes. Let's very quickly talk about college playoffs. And of course, for me and everybody else that grew up like I did in places like Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Northwest Florida, which I did, a nightmare when you have all these Midwest teams kind of clunking around and playing. I must say this, though.

Yes, we in the South think of Big Ten football over the last 20 years as high school football kind of go three yards a cloud of AstroTurf. They will say Ohio State is the exception to that rule. I mean, they look so good, don't they? Yeah, Ohio State has the best roster that money can buy and that was held against Ryan Day their head coach when they lost to Michigan A lot of us in the sports press Basically fired Ryan Day the head coach because he hasn't beat Michigan in what's felt like an eternity But the run he's gone on since that this roster has gone on since I mean it's been just incredibly impressive

They blow out, Oregon They beat Texas as we're watching these clips now and Notre Dame just to pay them respect Joe I know look Notre Dame they have a Cowboys aspect to them. They claim to be America's team They're a big TV draw hadn't won since the 90s But what they did against Georgia and then what they did in the semifinal They can hold the line man. Yes against Penn State. Yes Yes, they bullied teams around and it's just really impressive for a team

That's otherwise really injured to do this. And so yes, this is the Midwest coming home to roost in a title game But I wouldn't write off Notre Dame as much as Ohio State on paper has the most NFL ready roster And that's not particularly close on paper has the most NFL ready roster, and that's not particularly close on paper. Yeah, all right, it'll be fascinating. All right, Jose Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Arc. Media Pablo Torre, thank you so much. Always great to have you here. Hope you come back in a couple days.

Yes.