Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/22/24

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Trump confuses Nikki Haley for Nancy Pelosi

With Obama, we won an election that everyone said couldn't be won. Obama dropped missiles and they ended up hitting a kindergarten. If that's the case, he's going to end up being indicted when he leaves office. Obama wants to he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to mention he doesn't even mention them in his statements. It's all coming through Iran. Well, you mean President Biden? They were interviewing him two weeks ago and they said, what would you advise President Obama?

The whole world seems to be exploding. They never report the crowd on January 6th. You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guard, whatever they want. They turned it down. He was confused. He was confused the same way he said Joe Biden was going to start World War II. We would be in World War II very quickly if we're going to be relying on this man. Clearly, Donald Trump is not the same Trump from 2016.

When I came here, everyone thought Bush was going to win. They thought Bush because Bush supposedly was a military person. Great. You know what? He was a military. He got us into the he got us into the Middle East. We came up with a new word for a new couple of words for corn. Viktor Orban, hungry, very powerful. He fronts on both Russia and Ukraine. They were funding Hezbollah and Thomas. When he gets off the teleprompter, there's a lot of mistakes, a lot of stream of consciousness stuff. We're also going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your, you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you and we're going to debank. Think of this. A very big hello to a place where we've done very well.

Sioux Falls. Thank you very much, Sioux Falls. So Sioux City, let me ask you, how many people come? How many people come from Sioux City? Oh, good morning and welcome to Morning Show. It is Monday, January 22nd. Good to have you all here with us this morning. With us, we have. Yeah. I was just going to say, you know, the Nikki Haley thing was disturbing. We talked about this on Friday, about Obama and his problems, and there was actually some poor guy who said, oh, they're making things up now to distract from Joe Biden. No, I'm not trying to distract from Joe Biden. Joe Biden's doing just fine. We're we're talking about the fact that time and time and time again.

Donald Trump, who's obviously, as Ron DeSantis said, lost more than a step. And as Nikki Haley says, is really, you know, really confused up there. And she says, well, our kids deserve better than somebody that doesn't know where they are or what they're doing. But you see him go through his speech and he struggles and he starts to say Obama. And then he cuts himself off because his mind's going, wait, is Obama really president? Still, what decade am I in? And then he continues and he goes ahead and just says Obama's name because he can't remember Biden's name. And we had the same thing the other night where he

goes, Nikki, Nikki, Nikki. He says it three times. And then he moves on thinking that, wait, wait, that doesn't sound quite right, but maybe that's right. And then he comes back and he accuses Nikki Haley of being Nancy Pelosi on January 6th. And we gave her, offered Nikki Haley. Think about this. Donald Trump saying we offered the former U.N. ambassador 10,000 troops. And she wasn't even there. She wasn't even government. And so the confusion just continues. So, you know, it's been a lot of time with Joe Biden. I can tell you, Joe Biden knows where he is. He knows what decades he's in. He sure as hell knows who he's running against. There's just really no comparison here. So, yeah, you want to talk about who's addled. This is an easy one. Let's talk about who's addled and who's addled is a guy who can't even remember that Barack Obama hasn't been

president of the United States in eight years. Yeah. And you have to think, is this age? It could be, but it also could just be the mountain of legal action against this man, just crushing him and making him so stressed that he's he's literally confused. Well, because no one person could handle all the cases that he has against him, all the lawyers he has to deal with, all the lawyers he can't get. I mean, some of these cases put him away in prison for the rest of his life. Except for the fact he's in 2016 most of the time. And even in 2016, he forgets who he ran against. He talks about the landslide victory against Barack Obama. Jonathan Lemire, let me bring you in here because I know you've been seeing this.

Talks about the landslide against Obama. He talks about Obama so much as president of the United States that Brian Kilmeade on this radio show has to interrupt him and correct him. That's what that's all this whole lie. Oh, Trump's doing. No, he's not. No, he he actually his mind is so it's like scrambled eggs when he gets gets up there and gets tired. He really thinks that he's running against Barack Obama. And just like he thought Nikki Haley was speaker of the House on January the 6th. Yeah. And of course, he launched his political career on the back of the racist lie of birtherism, which, of course, involved Barack Obama. Much of his 2015, 2016 campaign was against the Obama Hillary Clinton, you know, access to the Democratic Party. But I think a couple of things are at play here. First of all, anyone who spends

any time with Trump, his closest advisors acknowledge he's sort of almost fossilized with 2016, that bug preserved in amber, if you will, because 2016 was's sort of almost fossilized with 2016, that bug preserved in amber, if you will, because 2016 was that sort of definitive race for him. And even in 2020, he would repeat word for word stories on the campaign trail that he told four years before. In many ways, he's just never moved past 2016. He thought that was going to be his whole political career because he didn't expect to win. And it was all about that campaign. And then he so he's been sort of still in that moment ever since. And we're also seeing clearly increased signs of confusion, age pressure, as Mika said, probably playing a role as well. These slip ups are happening more and more.

Let's be clear. Trump has been doing this for a long time. But because he gives us so much a fire hose of not just falsehoods and lies, but mistakes. They kind of just blow past everybody. And what's happened here is that some of them have been so profound and so noteworthy. People are focusing on them. And that's what happened these last couple of days, Joe and Mika. His mixing up Nikki Haley for Nancy Pelosi. Haley then maybe- It's kind of hard to miss. Right. Too little, too late perhaps for a campaign. But she really seized on that. The Biden White House did as well, even saying that President Biden tweeting that he and Nikki Haley don't agree on much, but they both can agree on one thing, that she's not Nancy Pelosi. Right. OK, so here it is again on Friday. This is when Trump confused Nikki Haley for House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. Trump began mocking Haley for crowd sizes at her rallies.

Just think about that. But then he pivoted to discussing the January 6th insurrection and claimed Haley, not Pelosi, was in charge of the Capitol security that day. You know, when she comes here, she gets like nine people and the press never reports the crowds, you know. By the way, they never report the crowd on January 6th. You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, you know, they, do you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything, deleted and destroyed all of it, all of it because of lots of things. Like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guard, whatever they want. They turned it down. They don't want to talk about that.

If you look recently, there have been multiple things. I mean, he claimed that Joe Biden was going to get us into World War Two. I'm assuming he meant World War Three. He said that he ran against President Obama. He never ran against President Obama. He says that I'm assuming he meant World War III. He said that he ran against President Obama. He never ran against President Obama. He says that I'm the one that kept security from the Capitol on January 6th. I was nowhere near the Capitol on January 6th. But, Margaret, you don't be surprised if you have someone that's 80 in office. Their mental stability is going to continue to decline. That's just human nature.

I don't know if he was confused. I don't know what happened. But it should be enough to send us a warning sign. OK, and as Lamir pointed out, President Biden's campaign drew attention to Trump's mistake, writing on X Twitter, I don't agree with Nikki Haley on everything, but we agree on this much. She is not Nancy Pelosi. And posting this video montage. six better. Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people. They don't want to talk about that. I wasn't in office then. They're saying he got confused. You have voter ID to buy a loaf of bread. You have ID to buy a loaf of bread. What? What is? I'm driving over a road where it's almost all paper. And you know, you can see paper. I know paper.

I know cans. But all the time now we see whales washing up on shore because of the wind. Our veterans don't have cell phones, do they? He got confused. He got confused and said he was running against Obama. He never ran against Obama. And we did with Obama. We won an election that everyone said couldn't be won.

Obama wants to. He doesn't want to talk about it. You mean President Biden. And we did with Obama. We won an election that everyone said couldn't be won. Obama wants to. He doesn't want to talk about it. But you mean President Biden. So don't put our country at risk like this. I'm Joe Biden and I approve this message. I bet you do approve that message. Oh, my God. Jonathan O'Meara, first of all, has has stolen the he's too old concern from Biden. No, he's completely. It's gone. It's gone.

If they want to bring it up that Joe Biden has a stutter that he's had since like he was 14 years old, they can bring that up. Biden campaign hopes they bring it up. But there's so much here. By the way, voter ID to buy a loaf of bread. He repeats that three times, says he's driving over paper. I wrote this almost all paper. Nobody knows what he's talking about because he doesn't know what he's talking about because his mind sometimes just becomes mush. But I've got to say, Jonathan O'Meara, that's just again, that's just brutal. He looked lost. He looked confused. He looks he just. And again, the super extreme MAGA voters, they'll stay with him.

They've stayed with him through praising every communist Chinese and communist North Korean dictator on the planet. They'll stay with him through an episode of I don't know if it's early onset of dementia or exactly what it is. They'll stay with him. But swing voters, again, as we've said, as the Biden team said, as J.V. last said with the bulwark, the more they see this guy, the more they're going to say, like they said in 2020, no thanks. Yeah, there are a few things that are ideologically consistent about Donald Trump, but his crazy hatred of windmills and what he thinks they cause, that's, we've had that all along. And he talks about that in nonsensical fashion all the

time. And this is, to your point, Joe, the Biden campaign has looked at this race consistently throughout, where they understand that Donald Trump, by far more than any other Republican, poses, in their estimation, the greatest threat to America. The stakes couldn't be higher with Trump on the ballot. First of all, Trump's age that we're seeing here, the increased confusion negates what could have been a pretty powerful Republican attack line against President Biden, who certainly shown no signs of confusion like that, but is someone who is over 80 years old. He can't change his birth certificate. They also think, though, that the that to your point of a moment ago, some aides told me this earlier mid last year that they just feel like Trump had become background noise for so many Americans. Yeah, he's in the headlines for this legal case or that, or he gave this speech or there. But outside of the diehard MAGA base and the Fox News viewers, no one's been really listening to Trump. He's just sort of been in the ether. But now that people are starting to pay

attention again as the election year really ramps up, and frankly, in about 48 hours, Donald Trump might be the Republican nominee because the primary could be over. They're going to have no choice but to pay attention. And when they see Trump and they hear Trump and see not just how he's perhaps lost a few steps, but also how his rhetoric has gotten angrier and more dangerous, they do think that's going to turn off those independent swing voters who maybe backed him in 16, broke from him in 20, and sure wouldn't back him again in 24. And that's what's so interesting here.

I know a lot of people want to see Nikki Haley and before wanted to see anybody challenge Donald Trump. The White House is not in that group. The White House wants Donald Trump to nail this nomination process down as quickly as possible and wake up young voters, wake up black voters, wake up Hispanic voters who have gone away from them because they will say in focus groups, there's no way Democrats are going to be facing Trump. Again, the disengaged voter is like, no, no, no, that guy's never going to be here again. That's not going to be our choice. So the White House has been waiting for this moment to arrive. If New Hampshire is a

landslide for Trump and he nails it down, then the White House gets what they want. They get that matchup with the one guy that Joe Biden's team knows he can beat. Well, because he's done it before. So there's proof. But yeah, if those who haven't been that into it, they tune in now and see Trump. He's very different, much more even physically seems different. Let's bring in U.S. special correspondent for BBC News, Katty Kay, founder of the conservative website, The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes. And in New Hampshire, NBC News National Affairs analyst John Heilman is with us this morning. Good to have you all with us. So, John, set it up for

us. A lot going on in New Hampshire over the past 24 hours. Tell us, where are we? Is this going to be another big Donald Trump victory? Well, first of all, I think it's been really hard on Donald Trump. Joe, you know, I get you confused with Joe Strummer all the time. You know, guys, Joe with the last name S, you know, they probably need to give him a new form of that cognitive test that he talks about all the time. It's like a person, woman, camera, TV, Nikki, Haley, Nancy Pelosi, whatever. The next time his doctor does the cognitive test, they should put that at the very end to see if he can pass it. Joe, I'll say this, that this primary feels unlike, there's a perception there's a lot going

on up here. There's always a lot in some sense going on at the New Hampshire primary. But compared to any primary that you and Mika have been to in the past, there's not that much going on here in the sense that we almost would never see a situation where you're down to a two-person race. You remember Nikki Haley on the night of the Iowa caucuses said, you know, we're down to two people in this field. And people sort of laughed at her and said, you know, you came in third. How can you be part of a two-person race? Turns out she was right. It may have been impolitic to say it, but she knew that Rodney Sanders didn't have a path forward. Now, officially, it's a two person race.

And so we've seen here for the last for this last weekend, often one of the most electrifying periods in all of American politics. What we've seen is Donald Trump showing up here once a day to do a rally and conquered on Friday night in Manchester on Saturday night, last night out in Rochester, and not basically campaigning in the state at all. And then you've got Nikki Haley, who had, after Iowa last week, was not campaigning all that actively here, was doing a few events a day, but was not running the way a normal challenger runs in New Hampshire. And then suddenly on Saturday, some people say at the urging of the governor, Chris Sununu, suddenly started to run a real New Hampshire campaign, a full schedule all day on Saturday, a full schedule all day on Sunday, taking questions

from reporters on both days. And as we, as you guys noted, finally deciding to go after Donald Trump on an issue of genuine vulnerability, which is the question of his age, something that, and his mental acuity, something that she has been loathe to do in the past. We do not see, at least so far, a lot of signs of the gap between the two of them narrowing in the polling. But as you guys know, New Hampshire is very, especially in these last few days, can be very tough to capture late movement. There's definitely energy at her events. There are people turning out for her. You know, the governor, Chris Nunez, keeps talking about the momentum that he sees. He's obviously one of the most enthusiastic people in politics. So maybe overstating things a little bit. But it's it's you know, she is clearly the underdog here. Donald Trump is clearly the

favorite. But we'll see what happens over the course of the next 48 hours as to how close this race ends up being on Tuesday. So, Charlie Sykes, do we think, do you think that the Republican voters in New Hampshire and the independents in New Hampshire are going to vote for a man and basically seal the nomination for a man who thinks he's running against Barack Obama and thinks Nikki Haley was speaker of the House on January the 6th. Well, if they don't, other Republican voters will, you know, and I do think it's important to have a reality check about this particular moment that that even as the evidence piles up that that Donald Trump is, in fact, adult and that may be the least worst aspect of his character. But, you know, clearly he is decompensating in real time. But here is somebody facing more than 90 felony charges who has been twice impeached,

who has been disgraced, who over the weekend confused Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi, but also praised the world's most vicious thugs once again through Taiwan under the bus. And yet Republicans, one after another, are about to line up behind this elderly, crazed, accused felon and bigot as the next president of the United States. I mean, it is a remarkable moment that with everything that we have seen and heard from Donald Trump, everything that he continues to say in real time, that even people like Chris Sununu will say, well, yes, if he's the nominee, I'm absolutely going to put party loyalty over country. It is truly an extraordinary moment, even after the seven years that we've all lived through. Yeah, I mean, that comment by Chris Sununu on Meet the Press this weekend, when he was asked repeatedly, given all that he has said about Donald Trump, given what he has said about his age,

given what he has said about January the 6th, given what he has said about his fitness for office, and he still says, well, actually, yes, if he's the nominee, I'll support him, and as will millions of Americans, which shows the, you know, poor old Nikki Haley, if that's her very best surrogate, and he's still out there saying that he's going to be supporting Donald Trump on the eve of the vote. I guess if we if we think that New Hampshire is going to crown

Donald Trump as the Republican nominee, the thing that might be interesting watching the vote tomorrow is how many Republicans actually turn out to vote. The Republican turnout in Iowa was suppressed compared to history. Are there Republicans who are sitting at home thinking, you know what, if Donald Trump, it's going to be Donald Trump, he is the party nominee, we know that there are those who will stand in line and risk frostbite for hours and hours and hours, but there are also those Republicans who may just decide come tomorrow and come November that actually they're not Republicans anymore effectively.

And they're not going to go out and vote for Donald Trump. And the potential warning signs of a shrunken Republican electorate will be interesting to read after we see the numbers tomorrow. Well, and, you know, that's something that the Wall Street Journal editorial page, very conservative editorial page, has been warning Republicans about for a very long time. Eric Erickson yesterday, very conservative guy. Eric tweeted yesterday. He said, you know, already we're starting to hear if you don't vote for Donald Trump, you're helping Joe Biden. He said, well, what this argument seems to miss is that if you're in the primaries and you're voting for Donald Trump, you're helping Joe Biden. Make no mistake of it. This is exactly what Democrats want. They don't, they're scared to death of the autocrat.

But as far as who's the guy who's easiest to beat? Well, Republicans, it's a guy that they beat in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 21, 22 and 23. I mean, it's and yet I do I do want to say again, we have to underline this. And Charlie Sykes just it just shows a real sickness. It shows people putting their political political power over America. And all the things that Ronald Reagan and all the things that you and I and all the things that Republicans always believed in, whether you're talking about debt or, you know, that they're now supporting. And by the way, I saw I saw one of the most powerful people in Davos, economic people. You're starting to hear this from economic people now, people that run Wall Street, people that run the biggest banks saying, oh, come on, there's not a big difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Donald Trump had some really good policies.

You're hearing that from those people, despite the fact Donald Trump is praising the communist leader of China, the communist leader Kim Jong-un of North Korea, praising Vladimir Putin after his invasion of Ukraine, praising Hezbollah, talking about how smart they are, praising Viktor Orban. And praising Viktor Orban, again, a massive tale. And saying he's going to assassinate chairmen of the Joint Chief for being disloyal, saying he's going to terminate the Constitution, saying he's going to do all of these different things, jail his political opponents, that he's going to ban TV networks that criticize him. We can go on and on. But you actually have I won't even say the guy's name. You have Wall Street leader going, oh, come on.

These people are good people, too. No, they're not. No, they're not. But are they going to do that? Plus a guy who really thinks he's running against Barack Obama. Yeah, we're we're entering a new phase of denialism. Have you noticed this, that we have a lot of the smart people, you know, in the anti-anti-Trump movement? You have the business leaders, people, you know, columnists for The New York Times who are saying, well, maybe it's not so bad. Maybe you should just calm down.

Don't pay attention to what he says. He's all bark, he's no bite. about Donald Trump. They are now retreating into the, you know, you people that are concerned about authoritarianism, you're over caffeinated, you're being too hysterical. In fact, it's not going to be that bad. And all of the, you know, the elites at Davos are basically saying, you know, you know, tune out all the crazy stuff, tune out all the things that you just mentioned. What does he mean for our bottom line? Can we make more money with him? And they're OK with all of that. But I do think that it is interesting. There's going to be an effort to essentially say, you know, there's nothing to see here. None of this actually matters. It's going to be OK, which is radically naive when

you think about it, because Donald Trump is telling us very explicitly what he is going to do this time around. He has an infrastructure that will back this. He will bring into people in government who will be, in fact, loyal enough to try to implement that. And yet the conservative establishment and the business establishment has decided, yeah, maybe it won't be so bad. That's what they're that's the story they're telling themselves, because that's the story they have to tell themselves. Yeah. And this weekend, he said again, Victor Orban was a great guy and people don't like him because he was a strong man. And he said, well, maybe our country needs a strong man, too. Again, he's this isn't even like, hey, he's warning you and you have to sift through.

No, he's telling you. He's going to run an illiberal state. Victor Orban has attacked Western democracy and says he runs an illiberal country where he cracks down on the press. He cracks down on political opponents. He has absolutely no, no really competition. It's a it's a one party state. It's turned into a one party state and his one party state. And that's what Donald Trump will bring here. He's told us that this is like, oh, it's in New York Times editorial page. Great. No, he has told us that he told us again this weekend. That's what America needs. A strong man. This is Donald Trump. A warning. Read former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's book, Fascism. A warning pointing to Charlie's phrase, radically naive. Yeah, that's part of it,

is that you have people who are vulnerable to be taken in on anything, to believe anything or to let anything go by. And that's how it begins. Well, and read what his read, what all of his top staff members said. Read what his chief of staff, the general said. I just say this is this is going to be a nightmare for America if he gets elected again. Still ahead on Morning Joe earlier this month in Iowa, Ron DeSantis criticized Republicans who kissed the ring of Donald Trump. Now those words are getting renewed attention after DeSantis suspended his campaign and then did what? Morning Joe is back in a moment.

I don't care what political party you're from, whether you're an extreme conservative or socialist liberal, everybody should be concerned with that type of mentality going into the White House. And yet you are saying if he is the nominee that you are going to support him. How can you say that you'll support him? At the end of the day, I think most Republicans are going to get behind the Republican nominee. I'm hoping that it's obviously Nikki Haley. Despite his comments on immunity, despite what you said about the insurrection, you would still vote for Donald Trump in a general election?

According to the polls, most of America would. You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he'll say you're wonderful. You can be the strongest, most dynamic, successful Republican and conservative in America, but if you don't kiss that ring, then he'll try to trash you. You know what? You deserve a nominee that's going to put you first, not himself first. Trump is superior to the current incumbent, Joe Biden. That is clear. I signed a pledge to support the Republican nominee, and I will honor that pledge. He has

my endorsement because we can't go back to the old Republican guard of yesteryear. Oh, my God. Yesteryear. That was Governor Ron DeSantis who dropped out of the race yesterday. John Heilman, we'll get to that in a minute. I want to talk about, though, first, I want to talk about New Hampshire, you know, because, again, I just, you know, over the last couple of weeks, there's been a lot of fear and loathing, a lot of sackcloth and action, ashes action for Donald Trump that lost half of the Iowa electorate, despite the fact he's basically the incumbent president. I always said if Obama ran as a Democrat in that contest, a Democratic caucus, he'd get 98 percent of the vote. Only 14 percent of the vote went out in Iowa then. Very low turnout. Now you look at Donald Trump here. You've been going to the rallies. You've been going. You've

been seeing all of this. You and I both were at that massive event in 2016, over 4000 people in a raging snowstorm. Talk about how, again, we're looking at all the crazy, dangerous things he's saying, disconnected from reality. But compare Trump 2016 with Trump 24, and also compare what Donald Trump has done to the state of New Hampshire in general election terms. Yeah, I mean, look, Joe, you mentioned that event. I was thinking about you on Saturday night because that's the SNHU arena right across the street from where I am now. That's a big sports arena. They do hockey games and basketball games there and stuff.

Four years ago, we were all there together. You, me, Willie Barnicle, we're all out there. It was a huge snowstorm. And that place, which seats 10,000 people, was packed to the gills in 2016. The other night here, there were empty seats all over the arena. They said there were a few thousand people there. And there probably were a few thousand. But that place seats 10,000. And it was way less than half filled.

And even on the lower level. You could see just seats after seat after seat with no one in it. Last night, you know, he did an event on Sunday night in Rochester. The place has a capacity of 700. And you remember how I mean, filled 700 seats. But, you know, Trump used to brag about his, you know, 10,000 people, 12,000 people. We kept 10,000 people outside as far as the eye can see. You know, they're there. He's getting he's getting more people to turn out than than Nikki Haley. But kept 10,000 people outside as far as the eye can see. You know, he's getting more people to turn out than Nikki Haley. But the phenomenon, the energy of Donald Trump that you saw on the ground here, that we saw on the ground here in 2016, to a lesser extent in 2020, partly

because of the pandemic, it's just it's ebbed a great deal in this primary. And I will say, you know, as you talk to political people who really know the state here, whether they're pollsters or strategists or whatever, you know, back in 2016, remember, Donald Trump ran against Hillary Clinton in this state, and they were within less than a percentage point separated them on Election Day in 2016. It's 27 point something percent for Hillary, 27 point something a little less for Donald Trump, but less than half a percent. You know, Biden won this state by seven points in 2020. And there's polling out there that says that Biden wins this state by 10 points in 2024. This is a state that has not been transformed by Trump from purple to red.

This is a state that under Trump's leadership in the Republican Party is one of the best examples of the thing you guys, we talk about all the time, which is that Trump has been toxic politically at the national level for the Republican Party. This state would under, for a normal Republican, be a battleground state, potentially. Instead, here, you're looking at a state that by reasonable, the reasonable metrics we're looking at, he'll probably lose this state. Again, if we're sitting here today by potentially double digits, high single digits, that puts the state out of reach for Republicans. And yet, you know, it's still the case that there is almost no doubt that he's going to end up being able to hold off Nikki Haley here because of that core, small but intense core of the Republican Party, who's definitely going to show up for him, even if turnout is down on Tuesday. Yeah, it's going to be so interesting to see. Yeah, let's keep it. I mean, let's keep this simple, Katty.

If Nikki Haley were the nominee, New Hampshire would be a swing state. Since Donald Trump is going to be a nominee, Democrats aren't going to have to spend a dime there. Put it in the blue column. It's done. Yeah. And that lack of enthusiasm, the smaller crowds, the lack of energy. How many other states is that going to translate to? I mean, you know, I don't like to use the word confidence when it comes to the White House,

but you combine the kind of lack of broader energy for Trump in the Republican Party with those better economic numbers that they're seeing, the consumer confidence numbers ticking up. That was perhaps the most important number we had out last week, showing that actually Americans are starting to feel better about the economy. And, you know, you can understand why the White House is just desperate to get on with this race. But, Charlie, let's do a little bit of the postmortem before we consign him to oblivion and forget his name. Let's do a bit of the postmortem on Ron DeSantis, because it was pretty big news. It's a big news when a candidate drops out at this stage in the game on Sunday. And particularly given that Ron DeSantis,

whatever it was, a year and a half ago, was ahead of Donald Trump in the polls. Now, I see Nikki Haley now attacking Donald Trump more forthrightly in the very last days of her campaign. Was there room all along for a candidate to take that lane in the Republican Party? And did Ron DeSantis just not take that off ramp? We will never know because they never tried. Right. You know, Ron DeSantis was the great hope. You know, when you think about, you know, how high he was riding there.

And so there have been, you know, history is full of lots of flops. But Ron DeSantis is going to rank right up there, you know, given have been, you know, history is full of lots of flops. But DeRonda Santus is going to rank right up there, you know, given his, you know, given his, you know, original, all the hopes that were around him. But I mean, again, as I wrote in this column, the political obituary is almost too easy to write. He was a bad candidate. He had a lousy message and a truly terrible campaign. But maybe it wouldn't have made any difference because this says so much about the Republican Party as well. He calculated that if he moved to the right of Donald Trump on the cultural issues, that somehow he could be

Trumpism without Trump. But the problem is the Republican base wanted Trump. They wanted the show. They wanted they weren't interested in the legislation, in the policies, in whether or not he was going to be punching Disney in the face. They wanted the real thing. And when Ron DeSantis and the others decided that they were not actually going to run against Donald Trump, that they were going to actually defend him and rationalize him and provide cover for his various indictments and crimes and lies and sedition, et cetera. It pretty much guaranteed that Republicans were going to go. If we can have the fake thing, why not go with the real thing?

But, you know, Ron DeSantis was was always, I think, overhyped because he was never ready for primetime. He was never going to scale up. And, you know, just kind of a lesson that, you know, that you cannot run if you're not willing to run against the guy you're running against, which seems kind of basic. Yeah. You know, it seems to me that you have a choice. You have to pick a lane. And so here you had Fat Elvis, 77, and you had Ron DeSantis saying, I'm going to go to Vegas and I'm going to fill that lane. Right. Why? Why? Like if you can't, if, if, if that lane's already filled, then do the Beatles. If you can't do the Beatles, do Dylan.

If you can't do the Dylan, be Fifth Dimension. Be anybody, but don't try to be Fat Elvis. They got that on the strip. A lot of it. They got a lot of it, right? And you're never going to get people. So much. Heilman, if somebody has followed Elvis since 57, they're not going to drive to Vegas in 77 and say, hey, I'm going to go see the fat Elvis imitator. No, they're going

to see Elvis and they're going to get the sweaty, fat guy with, you know, pulling off of it, you know, throwing his scarves into the crowd. And people think I'm joking. No, this is a perfect, perfect analogy. Because who in the hell is going to go see a knockoff of Donald Trump 2024? Heilman, a mainstream Republican. Do you know how many people come up to me nonstop and say, why can't we just have a mainstream Republican? Lower taxes, lower spending, you know, more freedom.

Forget the crazy social stuff. Don't fight on that ground because we're going to lose, which Ron DeSantis did. Don't amp that up. Focus on the things that have united the Republicans for 50 years. And now people say, oh, they don't want to hear that. Yeah, the MAGA people don't want to hear that. That's why they're at the Sands listening to Fat Elvis 77. All right. We want to get them over to Caesars to hear the Main Street Republican talk about quantitative easing. I'm joking about that last part. But man, there's such a strong, powerful, conservative message to be given right now to America. And no one is giving it, John. That's totally right. I mean, look, if you want

to see fat Elvis, you know, you're going to be in that small shrinking pool. You know, you're at the one arm bandit. You know, you're there with your little plastic cup full of tokens and you're putting them in. Yeah. But there's a bigger there's just a bigger market out there. There's Tom Jones down the street. There's Wayne Newton down the street. You know, there's Olivia Newton-John, God rest her soul, down the street. You know, there's a lot. Give her some of these other options. Give them a fresh face. Be Olivia Newton-John.

Yeah. Be Olivia Newton-John, right? I mean, you know, Fat Elvis has cornered the market on Fat Elvis fans, and there's no point in trying to be a fake Fat Elvis. What's with that? And you know who else? Shania's got a residency. Go see Shania.

Oh, definitely go see Shania. Come on. Go see Adele. There you go. Be that. Be that. Now we're talking. Fill that lane.

Yeah. We already got Elvis 77. I'm sorry, John. Lamere, would you like to bring in a faded rock star? Well, actually, it's an analogy that the Trump campaign themselves were using all along. At the beginning of this race, they said, why, with DeSantis trying to be Trump without the baggage, a Trump aide told me, he's like, why would you want to see a cover band if the Rolling Stones are still touring? That's what they said.

And that's what we've all, that is seemingly the analogy that is working here. But I think it's also we've been asking. And DeSantis, maybe and maybe this was all doomed from the start. To Charlie's point, this was Trump's party. Republicans are not ready to turn the page just yet. But the one moment might have been right after the midterms when Trump was at a low watermark. So many of his candidates lost in the Senate in 2022. And DeSantis was the Republican bright spot.

He won and won big. And instead of hitting the road and Trump then had like a sort of faltering campaign launch. And instead of taking advantage, DeSantis went back to Florida and went and picked that fight with Disney and tried to move Trump's right on the culture wars and like attached himself to the legislative session there, not forcing the law change that he needed. He waited on that. If he had been out there from the beginning, maybe he changes the dynamics of this race, but maybe not because he was such an inherently flawed candidate with really suspect retail political skills, seemingly having a very hard time connecting with voters. And, you know, he did offer, though, one piece of analysis of

the race that I think is precisely right as he's trying to he is trying to turn the page to 2028, although I think a lot of Republicans think DeSantis is so damaged because of this race. He doesn't really have a future in 2028. We'll see. Only time will tell there. But DeSantis himself said that it was Trump's indictments that really sealed the deal. And he's right. But it wasn't just because Trump got indicted and Republican voters rallied around him.

So did his Republican rivals, DeSantis included. And everyone turned to back Trump against these, quote, deep state prosecutions. And that was the moment. That was the moment this race ended. And it likely just becomes official tomorrow night in New Hampshire. And again, he could have said at that time, he's a loser. This guy loses. Thank God. We loved Elvis in 57, 58, 59. Went to the war, you know, even in 68, the comeback, he was great. That's fantastic. That's still a decade ago. Come over to Caesar's and let's talk about the future. He just he could have done that. He could have been a Main Street Republican that that said, what in the world is

Manhattan D.A. doing? That's just dumb. That's just dumb. But Trump's going to have to deal with that. Let's you and me talk about the future. Those crowds would have been bigger. It wouldn't have been as awkward. I think there was a pathway for Ron DeSantis, but SuperMAGA didn't work. We'll see if the next version of Ron DeSantis is more Main Street Republican, because he came on this show at the end on two or three times. And, you know, he's a he's really smart guy. He's a really smart guy when he's

talking issues and not making them up. The Bulwarks, Charlie Sykes and NBC News National Affairs analyst John Heilman. Thank you both very much for starting us off this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, the Detroit Lions are headed to the NFC title game for the first time in more than three decades. We'll have the highlights as the Lions now are one win away from their very first Super Bowl appearance. And what a game last night. Oh, look who's here. The Bills and the Chiefs. Look who's here. ESPN's Pablo Torre

is standing by with his take on that game and the rest of the NFL's divisional round matchups. Morning Joe will be right back. So if an old friend I know I thought I'd say hello Would I still see suspicion in your eyes? Here we go again Here's Bass. We talked to Sean McDermott after his after his one for three performance last week he says

tremendous support in the building if he has to make one for us the game on the line he will 44 yards bass no he doesn't make it wide right wow that is, I mean, I just don't know what to say. An entire city, an entire community's hopes and dreams resting on the foot of a guy who went wide right. Maybe he, I don't know, maybe he played for FSU at one time. Wide right, a phrase that again destroys Buffalo Bill fans. The Bills miss a field goal that would have

tied the game in the final minutes of a great game against the Chiefs. And a first down later, Kansas City seals the win. The third time in the past four years, the Chiefs have knocked the Buffalo Bills out of the playoffs. Let's bring in right now, host of Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Arc Media, ESPN's Pablo Torre. Pablo, you know, as you know, I like the Chiefs, right? You know, I've always loved the Chiefs. They're a fun team.

But this year, I really, I was like, come on, the Bills need this. And I won a Lake Erie Super Bowl. The Bills and the Lions, man, that would have made us all run faster, stretch out our arms further and would have healed this broken land. Not to be handed to the Chiefs, who have been a mystery wrapped inside of enigma, wrapped inside of riddle. I get those wrong, wrong, wrong sequence, but it's the case. I haven't been able to figure them out all year, but it doesn't really matter. They figured themselves out last night when it mattered the most. Yeah. I want to start with Buffalo, Joe, because you're right. There were religious overtones here in this one. And it's not, it's not that the city of Buffalo was wondering, is there a God?

They were wondering, why has he forsaken me? Why is he so cruel? This is Old Testament stuff. For people who don't understand the legend, the reality really of Scott Norwood, their old kicker, missing a field goal wide right to ensure that this team has never won a Super Bowl and will not again this year this was as good a year as any you watch this game this had the feeling as we watch these clips

of a prize fight lead changes back and forth teams fighting tooth and nail both of them deserving to be clear but buffalo man like if not now then when is a really fair concern for the city of Buffalo, for the region of of upstate New York in general. And you were joking about, you know, the Vegas residency before. Well, Patrick Mahomes has a residency in the AFC conference game. OK, in that title game, he has he's been there every year. He's been a starter. It's six years in a row. We've been looking, okay, who is the replacement for that Brady Belichick

New England Patriots defense that our friend John Lemire loves? Well, guess what? It's the team with Travis Kelsey blowing kisses and making heart-shaped signals to Taylor Swift in the luxury box as his brother Jason is shirtless behind her jumping into the stands as well like that's what the Kansas City Chiefs are they are Goliath and the Bills are David without a slingshot you know this is this this game uh and the one three years ago really is gone for this era this is like the playoff matchup.

I mean, when I was growing up, it was in the Super Bowl. It was the Cowboys and the Steelers. Of course, in this division, the old AFC West division, it was the Chiefs and the Raiders. Man, what a rivalry that was. But that rivalry now, it's the Bills and the Chiefs. And at some point, at some point, maybe the Bills and the Chiefs. And at some point, at some point, maybe the Bills win against them.

But for now, the Chiefs just own them. And it's, but I mean, what a historic rival we have here on our hands. Yes. I mean, look, the attempted parallels have been to,

is this Tom Brady versus Peyton Manning now. Right. And there was this discussion about who is who. And the issue is simply this. Patrick Mahomes keeps winning everything. And we need Josh. For people who don't know who Josh Allen is, Josh Allen is a six foot five monster who can do everything. And this game, this game was not. Look, it's one thing if you get outplayed thoroughly but when it's the kicker joe i'm not here to to um just further sprinkle dirt on tyler bass the kicker who missed that field goal but if you are the buffalo bills kicker

going wide right is is is a time to leave town kind of scenario, because everything you said about the rivalry is real, except for the fact that the Bills haven't been good enough to justify the other end of that metaphor. Yeah. And, you know, usually it's a Josh Allen interception. Josh Allen will play great, but he'll throw two interceptions. The last one being about as dumb as Jordan Love's interception, which had overtones of Brett Favre in it. My son turned to me and goes, is that what Brett Favre looked like at the end of playoff games, Daddy? I go, yes, son.

That is how Brett Favre looked. But, man, what an incredible game that was. The Packers just – we won't go into that because we need to talk about the team I'm cheering for throughout these playoffs. Started 0-6 last year. What can you, and when they did, their owner goes out, says,

we're not making any changes. I got a vision. That's right. And she said, she said, I got a vision and we're going to any changes i got a vision that's right and she said she said i got a vision and we're gonna stick to this vision i don't care for oh and six and yesterday big dan and the lions holy cow what a scene take us through it yeah so last week we talked about how this was the first playoff win in 31 years this is them making their first nfc title game in 31 years they had never hosted two consecutive home playoff games but they face baker mayfield by the way who had been

excellent how about baker just a baker whoa one of the great commercial actors in sports history to begin with and here he is yeah performing the role of playoff quarterback, except the Detroit Lions. Joe, the Detroit people, I want America to appreciate how much the city of Detroit needed this. OK, yeah, they have never won a Super Bowl. They're one of the great sports cities anywhere on the planet. And here you have a team that can do everything led by a man in Dan Campbell. By the way, to just imagine how the city of Detroit is feeling, imagine how Dan Campbell feels every morning, because here's his Starbucks order.

His Starbucks order is two Venti's, two espresso shots in each. Okay? Yeah. So that's like drinking a million Red Bulls, I believe. That's the energy that Dan Campbell brings to every locker room, every game. And that's how this city feels both delirious and energized and unable to sleep after watching jared goff of all people lead them to an nfc conference game beating the tampa bay bucks who are better than you think

we need similar uh coffee orders here uh to get us going each and every morning uh so let's turn to the matchups uh lo, the conference title games. So first, those Detroit Lions head out to San Francisco. The Niners, as Joe mentioned, they were shaky for part of that game, but they finished at the end. They got some help from Jordan Love. They'll be the clear favorites, though. Detroit, magic at home, a little tougher on the road. But then also talk as Kansas City Chiefs. They now have another test on the road against the likely MVP, Lamar Jackson. You know, the Ravens have been the best team in the AFC all year. But man, it's hard to bet against the pedigree of Mahomes and Reed.

Yeah, I don't want to bet against Patrick Mahomes. I will not in this game. But just to respect what Lamar Jackson has been. Lamar Jackson is the MVP of the league. The Baltimore Ravens are the best team in the NFL. They have distinguished themselves as such. And Lamar Jackson, you know, I sometimes laugh about what it must be like if you're like a time traveler from 1970 coming to see in modern day, who are these quarterbacks who are now leading their teams deep into the playoffs? Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson are two of the

best athletes we've ever seen play the position and two of the best tacticians. Right. It's not just the body. It's also the mind. And Lamar Jackson, the question has always been, well, he's such a great runner. The shiftiest runner, Michael Vick himself marvels at Lamar Jackson, one of the great runners of all time, one of the video game characters of all time, made flesh. Lamar Jackson this year has been the guy who can dice you up surgically as well. And so after that first half in which he struggled some against the Texans, that second half, it was Lamar Jackson showing why is these, why this guy specifically is about to be the MVP of the league. And so give me my homes, give me the chiefs, but that's a close one, man. That can go either way. It really could.

Yeah. Hey, I want to, I want to talk really quickly because I mentioned Jordan Love's name in vain. That guy was incredible. Like those Packers, I'm watching the Packers play and I'm thinking, wait a second, a year ago, we would have said the NFC North was the biggest garbage division other than, of course, the NFC South. Let me tell you something. This Packers team next year with Jordan Love, who is extraordinary in this playoff run,

right up to the end, extraordinary. They are going to be in the same division as the Lions are going to be, you know, in the same division as the Bears, who just keep getting better. Like, man, that is going to be a great young division. So exciting. Yeah.

I am not one for moral victories, right? But this game, if you play the best team in the NFC, which the 49ers are, this close, you outplay him for three quarters, honestly. What you have leaving this game, if you're the Packers, if you're the state of Wisconsin, is your future. You have in Jordan Love the guy who, yes, threw that back-footed interception that you accurately compared to Brett Favre. That's absolutely what I imagined as well watching it.

But, Joe, remember who they had before. Remember who was the guy that gave them all conniptions about, oh, his cell phone service in California. We can't reach Aaron Rodgers. He doesn't want to play with us. He wants to be here in New York. They are so lucky that Aaron Rodgers seemingly would not take those calls. They are so lucky that Jordan Love, who came relatively out of nowhere,

is just the third quarterback that they can rest their hopes on and feel safe and secure because this is a moral victory, despite, of course being a heartbreaking playoff loss is that well and by the way yeah by the way i mean jordan love completed about 10 magical passes off his back foot against the cowboys and against the niners two of the best teams in football such an incredible player a great guy to cheer for. So, yeah, one bad pass. He won't make that bad pass next year. Unlike Brett Favre, he's young.

He'll learn from his mistakes. But, yeah, he was great. And that AFC, let's just say again, that AFC championship game between the Chiefs and the Ravens, I mean, the Ravens have been – I mean, the Ravens look like a team that goes to Super Bowls and wins Super Bowls. They're just built like a Super Bowl winning team. Yes.

But, yeah, but nobody can bet against Mahomes, can they? No, no. Look, definition of insanity, right, is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Patrick Mahomes just... Man, at some point, we will have the conversation and not feel guilty about it whether he's just the best quarterback we've ever seen right like it feels premature to do this because he's only

a half dozen years into his nfl career but if those half dozen years result in the most successful run we've ever seen to start a career then at that point it feels okay that maybe this guy is just actually, he is, he is to bring it full circle with the religiosity here. He is a messianic figure come to visit the world of sports. And I know that sounds like wild overstatement, even heresy, given we've mentioned Tom Brady, Joe Montana, all of these guys, but Joe, I watch Mahomes. I watched Lamar Jackson. They're both special guys, but nobody is like Patrick Mahomes,

with all due respect to the area you guys are in. And make no mistake of it, Patrick Mahomes is doing this in a down year when nothing seems to be clicking. With, like, no receivers. He has Travis Kelsey and no receivers. Well, I think he's picked up one now. It's going to be interesting. All right.

You can listen to more of Pablo through his podcast. And please do. Pablo Torre finds out on Metalark Media. This podcast, Mika, I don't know if you know this. It's amazing. It reverses male pattern baldness. Yeah. It helps you with your backswing.

It gets chicken weed out of your backyard. Pablo Torre. You can do everything. It's fantastic. Now we're really late into the second hour. I've allowed this because it's Pablo. Can I just say with Pablo, you're always on time. Okay.

That's just where you're supposed to be. All right. This is a Zen thing, Pablo. This is a Zen thing. Bye, Pablo. Presence. All right.