Morning Joe - Morning Joe 12/23/24

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Trump addresses Elon Musk's growing political influence: 'He's not going to be president'

And we have a president, we have a vice president, we have a speaker. It feels like it is if Elon Musk is our prime minister. And I spoke with Elon a couple of times this week. I think many of us. Unelected. Well, unelected. But I mean, he has a voice. And I think a lot of large part of that voice is a reflection of the voice of the people.

He meant that as a compliment. That's Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez of Texas praising Elon Musk for speaking out against the government funding bill last week and comparing him to a prime minister. We'll update you on what the spending fight portends for President-elect Donald Trump's first 100 days in office. Plus, Trump also seems to be eyeing a couple

of new properties for the United States' real estate portfolio. We'll explain why he's hinting at taking control of Greenland and now the Panama Canal. And of course, we'll get to a huge weekend on the gridiron for both the NFL and the college game. Good morning. Welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, December 23rd. I'm Jonathan Lemire

along with US Special Correspondent for BBC News, Cady Kay, Managing Editor at The Bull Work. Sam Stein joins us, as does the co-host of the weekend on MSNBC, Simone Sanders Townsend. Just saw her on Wait Too Early. Joe Meek and Willie have the morning off. We will dive right in a lot of headlines to get to this morning. Thank you for joining us. And we'll begin with Congress, which managed to pass an 11th hour government funding package late Friday evening. The short-term bill will keep the government's lights on through mid-March. The package passed through the House 366 to 34, with Democrats providing the votes to get it over the needed hurdles.

The Senate, for its part, passed the legislation 85 to 11. The no votes came from 10 Republicans and Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, an independent who caucuses with Democrats. The bill's passage comes after President-elect Trump torpedoed the bipartisan agreement that had been brokered by congressional leadership. Trump had called for any funding deal to increase or even abolish the debt ceiling, which is not up until the middle of next year. Trump went as far as to say that he would support primary challenges to any Republican

who went against his wishes. The final package, however, did not contain any language pertaining to the debt ceiling, a point in which Semaphore reports Trump is, quote, not happy about. The package does contain over $100 billion for disaster relief, as well as a one-year extension of the farm bill. So this is a moment, Katty, we'll get into it, where Republicans felt like they could say no, at least in a limited fashion to Donald Trump. Yeah, and what does that mean going forward?

I mean, if someone were going to carry on saying no, I can't imagine that the president elect is going to be thrilled with that. And of course, this new funding bill is only going to keep the government open until March. So these debates are going to come up again. And despite Republicans now controlling both the chambers and the presidency, they will need at least some Democratic votes to avoid a future shutdown. As NBC News reports, Trump's demand that Congress extend or abolish the debt ceiling to take it off his plate next year failed dramatically.

On Wednesday, he threatened electoral primary challenges, the weapon of choice, of course, against any Republican who voted to fund the government without dealing with the debt limit. On Friday, 170 House Republicans defied him and, yes, did just that. Senate Republicans say last week's turmoil is a preview of just how difficult it's going to be for House Speaker Mike Johnson to facilitate two budget reconciliation packages and a debt limit bill next year. The Hill reports that Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri expressed doubt about whether the speaker can pass these major bills. Quote, if they can't manage the CR, how is he going to manage reconciliation? It's bad. It bodes badly.

And another concern, Trump's signature campaign promise of large scale mass deportations. The Telegraph reports days after his election victory, Trump said there would be no price tag on his plan for mass deportations, which will probably involve constructing tens of thousands of detention centers. A report from the American Immigration Council, a pro immigration group, estimated that deporting 1 million migrants a year would cost at least $88 billion. So Jonathan, I know it's Christmas and I know people are asking for a lot of gifts but it looks like Donald Trump is asking for an awful lot from Congress next

year. This is not to mention continuing those tax cuts that he wants to do, potentially bringing down the corporate tax cut as well. I mean, that's the kind of thing that would keep any Congress busy, and yet they've got to deal with all this procedural stuff because they haven't managed to do it before the end of this year. That's going to cost an extraordinary amount of money, and there are some Republicans who are, you know, have been principled in their idea of really wanting

to slash spending. And that's why they said they opposed what went down last week. So Sam Stein, let's talk about this. Two parts to you here. First, just this idea that it is chaos yet again. The talk that we had heard in the months past, Donald Trump, his campaign for him was more organized, more

disciplined. Here we go. He knows how to use the levers of government now. He's not a rookie at this. He's surrounding himself with people who have been there before, and he's going to have Republican majorities, though slim, in the Senate and the House. And yet it is complete tumult again, in part because some Republicans, at least on some issues,

appear willing to defy him. Yeah, he's not, we should note, I mean, it's obvious, but he's not the president yet. So the chaos has begun before he's taken office. It is interesting that on some occasions we've seen Republicans willing to just say no. So you know, Trump didn't endorse Rick Scott for leader, but Elon Musk did. And Trump kind of let it be known that he wanted Rick Scott to be Senate Majority Leader. We ended up with John Thune. Matt Gaetz was supposed to be someone that Trump would go to the mat for.

He hinted at recess appointments if Matt Gaetz didn't get the attorney general post. Matt Gaetz ended up pulling his nomination. Now you see, again, the cause for a debt limit hike, if not the elimination totally of it. We had 38 Republican votes in the House against that specific proposal. So occasionally we are seeing some Republican, Congress Republican, spine here. Now I don't know if that's going to be consistent throughout the next four years, but it is interesting. And I will say this is not abnormal, not the spine, the chaos is not abnormal for anyone who remembers what the Trump presidency was like the first four years.

Yes, it was supposed to be different. This go around, but this is just the way he operates, right? There's something almost scripted about how the government funding fight went down, which is you have a deal, he torpedoes the deal, you have a fallback option, that doesn't work, you go to plan three. And in three months' time, I honestly think we'll be doing this all over again. Yes, Simone, I think that's exactly right. This is what the first term of Trump was like.

This is before even Trump takes office. Sure seems like a sneak preview of what the second term will be like. So my question to you is what role can Democrats play in this? You know that they were they've seen a coalesce around last week. This is these attacks on Elon Musk. We'll get into him more in a minute. Also willing to just simply of course to say no, we had a deal. You backed out.

How do you think they handled this particular fight and what lessons can they learn for those ahead? Look, in my conversations with Democratic lawmakers, and I mean, this really came together around 5 p.m. Friday afternoon, when that bill text dropped, the Democrats went into a caucus meeting because they didn't know what was in the bill. And so they wanted to make sure there were no, as they described it to me, poison pills. And as one senior Democratic lawmaker said to me,

if there are no poison pills in here, we are probably going to vote for it. But again, we need to have a conversation. I think one, Democrats wanted to go home, okay, right before Christmas. But I also think they did not want to withhold, be a part of the government shutting down if there was really nothing

nefarious, if you will, in the bill, because this is right before Christmas and the holidays and people need to get their checks. So I was, though, of the ilk that Democrats should have fought. Look, I think that it is not a good precedent to set if, in fact, you have a deal and then the deal is agreed to and so on and so forth. All the negotiators do the negotiating. And then Elon Musk, followed by the president-elect, okay, not the other way around,

comes in and blows the deal up. This is going to be par for the course for the next at least two to four years. So in saying that to Democratic lawmakers, they told me, well, we did fight. You know, they protected Social Security, they fought Donald Trump on the debt limit and ensured that a number of bills that maybe that needed to come together, things that were in the original CR, the original

deal that they had, they didn't make it into the final deal that came across the desk in the House, did go through in the Senate some additional money for cancer research, for childhood cancer research for childhood cancer research. Obviously that RFK stadium deal giving the land back to Washington, D.C. so that they can develop it or maybe have a new stadium there. So those things did happen. But Democrats, the last thing I'll say, Jonathan, is they have governed with Republicans throughout

the 118th Congress. Every single bill that passed passed because Democrats crossed the aisle to vote that had to do with the government functions, if you will. They weren't rewarded for that in the midterms. So one has to question, will the American people see this chaos and see Democrats coming together to be the adults in the room doing their jobs and reward them in the next midterm election because they weren't awarded in the last election. That remains to be seen.

We don't know yet. Yeah, well, as Simone just rightly mentioned, the tide turned on the original spending bill because Elon Musk came out against it first. Only then did Donald Trump follow suit. And that's adding to the storyline about just how much of a say Musk has to the point where Trump addressed Musk's

growing political influence, despite the world's richest man, of course, not being elected to any position in the federal government. Several critics have publicly called out Musk for having more influence than Trump over the current Republican Party. But the president-elect was apparently having none of it, making some key remarks about Musk during a speech yesterday that he gave at a gathering of young conservative activists in Phoenix. You know, they're on a new kick. Russia, Russia, Russia, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, all the different hoaxes.

The new one is, President Trump has ceded the presidency to Elon Musk. No, no, that's not happening. But Elon's done an amazing job. But no, he's not going to be president, that I can tell you. And I'm safe, you know why? He can't be. He wasn't born in this country. Cady K, a lot to unpack here.

First of all, we know Donald Trump hates it when anyone challenges him for the spotlight. The fact that he had to address it over the weekend shows that it's clearly getting under his skin. The fact that he had to point to the Constitution as an example of, hey, no, Elon Musk actually can't be president. He wasn't born here. Shows you how much this is getting under his skin. So weighing on that, and also, of course, as our resident European correspondent, you're

far more familiar with the concept of prime minister, which is what that Republican congressman said at the top of the show than we are, suggesting, unironically, that Musk is going to play a role like that. Yeah. So generally speaking, the prime minister is the head of the party. I mean, that is how you get to be prime minister. Your party is late in, but you are the head of the party. So you have an enormous amount of power. I don't know that he was totally aware of what he was saying in that suggestion. Maybe he thought the prime minister would be subservient in this role. But anyway, it's an elected official. That is how you get to be prime minister. We've been waiting for a while to see

when the Elon-Trump relationship might run into difficulties. Clearly, all that talk that was around in Washington and all the, you know, my kids sent me, even my kids sent me these funny cartoons of Elon and Vance in the front seat of the car and Trump in the back and them saying, so cute that he thinks he's doing the steering, which was the implication was

that he wasn't. So all of that seems to be getting back to Donald Trump, Sam Stein, but I mean this still, you know, Trump still seems to need or want Elon around. I don't know how long that lasts, but at the moment that still seems to be the case. He seems to appreciate the amount of money that Elon poured into states like Pennsylvania to get him re-elected. And I don't see Elon disappearing from the scene as quickly as some other people have suggested. No, I don't either.

It's unclear how much Trump needs and wants. I mean, I'm sure he's appreciative of the money, which was a lot. Yeah, the money. The money was very helpful. And I think the idea that you have this person here who has the biggest megaphone in politics and also the biggest banking account literally in the world threatening Republicans to get in line behind your agenda, that doesn't hurt Trump, right?

He kind of enjoys the idea that there's this anvil waiting to be dropped on the party. And that frankly was what happened in the CR debate, which was it wasn't just that Elon was spouting off on various provisions in the bill, which he clearly didn't understand because he got factually wrong. He didn't quite understand how the congressional process worked. That wasn't what was important. It was when Elon said, anyone who votes for this is going to get a primary challenge and I'll fund it.

That's what mattered. And so I think Trump likes having that tool. The problem is of course is that if Elon starts stealing his thunder at the spotlight and it becomes apparent that Elon is actually more powerful than Trump, that will not go over very well for the president, the president likes to be president. I think that's when you start seeing friction between the two.

Yeah, when the Time Magazine cover drops, suggesting that Elon Musk is actually running the show, that may be his. Quick point on that. When they were doing the Person of the Year Time Magazine, Elon put out a couple of tweets, which it gave the impression that he knew he might be treading on thin water, where he was like, I don't want the cover.

I don't want the cover. That should be for Trump. He understood that if that happened, that would have been quite bad for his face. He's learned from Steve Adams. Yeah, exactly. That's what it was supposed to be. Doge would have been quite bad for his face. He's learned from Steve Adams. Yeah, exactly. He's learned from what it used to be. Doge would have been done before it began had that occurred.

We're certainly going to be following this relationship in the weeks and months, if Musk lasted that long, ahead. Let's turn to another piece of Trump news from the weekend, though, as he turned his attention out of nowhere to the Panama Canal. Trump posted on social media Saturday that the United States might ask for the canal back if Panama continues to charge the US what he deems ridiculous fees.

Trump then doubled down on that stance during his speech yesterday. The Panama Canal. Has anyone ever heard of the Panama Canal? Because we're being ripped off at the Panama Canal. Has anyone ever heard of the Panama Canal? Because we're being ripped off at the Panama Canal, like we're being ripped off everywhere else. Our Navy and commerce have been treated in a very unfair and in judicious way. The fees being charged by Panama are ridiculous, highly unfair, especially knowing the extraordinary generosity that has been bestowed to Panama, I say very foolishly, by the United States.

This complete ripoff of our country will immediately stop. It's going to stop. The United States has a big and vested interest in the secure, efficient, and reliable operation of the Panama Canal. And that was always understood when they gave it to Panama. You got to treat us fairly, and they haven't treated us fairly. If the principles, both moral and legal, of this magnanimous gesture of giving are not followed, then we will demand that the Panama Canal

be returned to the United States of America in full, quickly, and without question. I'm not going to stand for it. So to the officials of Panama, please be guided accordingly. In an apparent response, the seemingly surprised president of Panama expressed that the canal is a sovereign entity and would not be handed over to the United States. Trump then responded to that on true social writing. We'll see about that.

The president elect has also resurrected. It's not just Panama. He's also resurrected interest in taking control of Greenland. And announcing his pick for the U.S. ambassador to Denmark, Trump wrote, for purposes of national security and freedom throughout the world, the United States of America feels that the ownership and control of Greenland is an absolute necessity. Trump said that during his first administration that he was looking into buying the self-governing island, which is controlled by Denmark.

And, Simone, so he's not even in office yet, and he is claiming an expansion, the need for expansion with Greenland, the Panama Canal. He's also been threatening Canada because of the tariffs issue where he suggested, perhaps jokingly, perhaps not, that Canada should be the 51st state.

He started referring to Prime Minister Trudeau as Governor Trudeau, as if he was just the governor of a state there. So this is Trump, again, as the world braces for his return, rattling a lot of cages and suggesting that the United

States is going to be a bully around the world. To say the least, the Panama Canal strikes me, his comments, they were random. It strikes me as though he perhaps got a briefing about something. And then because the president-elect at this time, the president-elect and the vice president-elect, they are receiving these national security briefings

and whatnot. So maybe he got a briefing about something, and he's trying to get it off his chest. When it comes to what he is saying about Greenland and furthermore what he has said about Canada, to me, this actually helps me understand a little bit more his stance on the Russia's war in Ukraine. Because for the life of me, I have been struggling to understand why not just Donald Trump but this faction of Republicans within the Republican Party apparatus are just so cavalier, if you will, about the sovereignty of another country.

But the president-elect himself is very cavalier about the sovereignty of another country. Joking about Canada being the 51st state is actually quite serious. Right? He's talking about trampling on the sovereignty of the people of Canada, saying that not respecting their borders, it is not a hard line for him. And while it may seem lighthearted, I do think it helps us get a window into why he has said the things that he has said about Ukraine. To Donald Trump, Ukraine's sovereignty is really just up for grabs.

And so talking about potentially striking a deal between Russia and Ukraine without the Ukrainians at the table, right, this is something that he thinks he can broker because to him, this situation is no different than him looking to buy Greenland or him just usurping the sovereignty of Canada. And this, this in Donald Trump's mind

would be the new world order. Yeah, it's great to underscore that. Trump's foreign policy summed up on its transactional and with the United States' financial interests in mind. We'll get more into that later on. Next up here on Morning Joe, President Joe Biden announced early this morning that he will be commuting the sentences

of most of the 40 inmates on federal death row. We'll explain who is instrumental in helping Biden arrive at that momentous decision. Beautiful look at New York City this morning at 620 a.m. here on the East Coast. Our friends at Chopper Four will be right back in just 90 seconds. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is signaling a greater willingness for negotiations to end the war with Russia. It comes as his country's forces are struggling to hold off Moscow's recent advances.

President-elect Donald Trump is also pushing a brokerage deal. Despite his change in rhetoric, Ukraine's leader has not explicitly said what concessions might be part of this deal. Elsewhere, more teenagers are using dangerously powerful pots. The Wall Street Journal is focusing on dabbing, where users inhale fumes from highly concentrated cannabis that is heated at high temperatures. Health authorities say they're seeing more and more teens land in the emergency room

with seizures, vomiting, or psychosis. DABs have up to 90% THC, the psychoactive component of cannabis, compared with the 4% the joints typically had back in 1995. Dangerous trend there. And dozens of new species were discovered in the jungles of Peru. The findings came during a 38-day expedition in the summer of 2022. The research team found four mammals, eight fish,

three amphibians, and 10 butterflies. That includes a mouse that swims with webbed feet, one of the rarest groups of mammals anywhere in the world. There he is. Also, a new species of climbing salamander. Not quite as cute as the mouse. And check out this armored blob headed catfish. Also new to science.

There he is, the blob headed catfish. Researchers also found dozens of rare and endangered species, some not known to occur anywhere else on the planet. So as we leave up that picture of that catfish, Katie Kay, this is remarkable scientific discoveries all the same. Yeah, the swimming mouse was cute idea, but that catfish, we could have pulled that picture down

a little quicker. OK, now making a turn to something very different. President Joe Biden announced today that he will be commuting the sentences of most of the 40 inmates on federal death row. Biden will be changing the death sentences to life without parole to all but three inmates, the exceptions being the Boston bomber and the two men responsible for the mass shootings at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh and the church in Charleston, South Carolina. Advocates fighting

against the death penalty, including Pope Francis, had been urging President Biden to grant the commutations before Donald Trump, who is pro-capital punishment, takes over in January. Biden said in a statement, make no mistake, I condemn these murderers, grieve for the victims of their despicable acts, and ache for all the families who have suffered unimaginable and irreparable loss. I am more convinced than ever that we must stop the use of the death penalty at the federal level. In good conscience, I cannot stand back and let a new administration resume executions

that I halted. Joining us now is the president and CEO of the NAACP, Derek Johnson. The organization has been advocating for the Biden administration to commute the sentences of even more people in prison, especially those incarcerated under the war on drugs. So, Derek, what do you make of this move? Perhaps not surprising, particularly after the pope weighed in. But what do you make of it? Well, we commend the president for this extraordinary act.

The clemency and pardoned powers of the president is unmatched. And it's good to see that he's using the moral authority of his faith to do what's right. You think about those who are on death row. Over 55% of those individuals are people of color, African-Americans, Latinos, and others. In fact, for every eight people who are killed, one person later is found to be exonerated. So we are encouraging the president to continue on this moral path to ensure that the disparities that we see in the system that has been proven is addressed through the clemency process. There are individuals that should be pardoned.

They are productive citizens. And this is the type of legacy that we want to see any president go out on, a legacy of helping people recognize and disparities and addressing moral inequities. So Derek, in 2021, Attorney General Merrick Garland actually issued a moratorium on federal executions. Of course, that doesn't apply to state executions, but he did on federal executions. What do you think happens to that moratorium under a new Trump administration? Well, unfortunately, we will resume the process for those who are on death row to be addressed.

But think about it, we are clearing the road now. The presidents with this one act have reduced the number of federal inmates on death row from 40 to three. I think that's extraordinary. And so what happens after this would take a while because to go through a trial to be sentenced to death is not something that happens overnight. So hopefully with this act, we can begin to right-size the criminal justice system, at least on the federal level. But particularly, we are encouraging the president to continue on

this path. There are far too many individuals who was convicted of the crime today would not be in prison. They would not be received a harsh punishment they've received. And so he must continue to on this voyage is the moral thing to do. And we commit them for what he's done so far. Derek Samstein here. I think the backdrop to this is kind of interesting, which is it was Joe Biden in the mid 90s who crafted the law, the crime bill,

that ended up establishing some of the statutes that applied for the federal death penalty. And now we have him, what is it, my math's pretty bad, 30 years later, going in the opposite direction. As this decision comes down this morning, commuting or changing the sentences to life without parole for 37 of the 40 inmates, I'm just wondering if you could talk about what you think the politics are here because obviously the White House will be attacked for this decision by a lot of people who think, look,

these are heinous cases, horrible crimes, these people do not deserve leniency. And Joe Biden, you set the law yourself for putting these people to death. Do you think there's going to be a sharp political blowback? Do you think it's gonna be a sharp political blowback? Do you think it will stick? You know, I grew up in the 80s and the early 90s. I understand the crack epidemic and the fear it had in the African American community, which generated the law of 1994.

And as a result of that law, you had the majority of the Congressional Black Caucus who also supported their law. So let's evolve as a nation. Our understanding around the criminal justice system has evolved. In fact, mass incarceration has not served this nation. So if we don't learn from the past, we're doomed to repeat it. So I commend the president for taking a stand today

to address what we know is the reality. Mass incarceration, inequity in citizens and the disparity between crack and Potter did not serve this nation well. So let's look forward, not look backward. I don't think anybody will have that backlash, although those who will will be individuals who are already in the Trump camp. President Johnson, Simone Sanders Townsend here. I'm wondering what else you would like to see the president do prior to him leaving office on January 20th. I am sure, I'm positive that the president has sought your counsel and I'm wondering

what that was. Well, first of all, we encourage this administration, the president, to use the clemency powers to address the disparities across the board. You have individuals who are sitting jail today who was convicted of marijuana crimes that's no longer a crime in pretty much 50 other states. You have individuals who are subject to disproportionate impact of citizen disparities.

You have individuals like Kimber Smith or Marilyn Mosley who should be pardoned. We have an opportunity to hear, as this administration go out, to right-size our criminal justice system on a federal level in a way that we have not seen before.

His legacy is something that we will celebrate once he pardoned and commutes the sentence of so many individuals who should not be sitting in jail or who could be leading productive lives and committing crimes. once he once he pardoned and commuted the sentence of so many individuals who should not be sitting in jail or who could be leading for death productive lives and contributing to

society. And caddy mentioned the role that Pope Francis had to play here. The White House announced that President Biden will make his final international trip while in office to the Vatican to see the pope sometime next month.

President and CEO of the NAACP Derek Johnson. thank you sir for joining us this morning. Thank you. And Simone Sanders Townsend, thank you as well. Great to see you. Coming up here, you've been waiting all weekend. Pablo Torre and Paul Feinbaum join us with their takeaways from that slate of football, college and the NFL. Lots of games to get to. Morning Joe will be right back with that. Second down at seven. And Lock looking, ball deflected and intercepted.

Taken back by Matthew Judon, the second pick six today for Atlanta. You don't dance in the backfield at that running back spot. Judon, the second pick six today for Atlanta. He don't dance in the backfield at that running back spot. Goff on first down, firing downfield for Williams. He's got it! Jameson Williams into the end zone, touchdown! Back to Taylor and Taylor, trying to put it away all by himself. Taylor into the open field one more time.

Oh, what a stiff arm to loosen the load. He's into the end zone. First and ten, fake to Williams, here they go, Higbee, zone and a Panthers victory with a touchdown and overtime. First and ten, another big run, there he goes, he's got wide open space, A Chan. For 70, doing a nice job as an extra blocker. On the ground, Cook's got a hole. Cook's still going. James Cook takes it the distance. Off play action. Stepping up.

Launching down field. And it is caught. Quick snap. Flags in the secondary. Daniels has an open man. Bone coverage. Zacchaeus. Zaccheaus, Zaccheaus, touchdown tie game. Showing the pressure.

Here he comes in the back. Jordan Lewis got there. Mayfield pitches it forward. Somebody got it to right. Rashad Wright gets a gain out of that. The ball taken away. Those were some of the biggest plays across the NFL yesterday, including the Dallas Cowboys

game-sealing turnover to beat the Tampa Buccaneers on Sunday night football over on NBC. Let's now bring in the host, Pablo Torre, finds out on Metal Arch Media, MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre and his sweater. Yes, that's right. Plus ESPN commentator Paul Fe Feinbaum joins as well. So good to see you both.

Pablo, let's start with the NFL. We're going to get to the college football, the underwhelming first round of the college football playoffs in a minute. But let's start with the NFL. It was sort of weird talking as you sat down, kind of a slate of games this week. But some games results, though, did matter.

Highlighting two in particular from yesterday, the Vikings continue to be that under the radar team this year. They go to Seattle. They win. If they win out, they're the number one seed in the NFC. And then the Eagles, who had also been on track potentially for that, their quarterback, Jalen Hurts, gets knocked out.

And they give up a game to the commanders. Yeah, let's start with the latter example you mentioned because Jaden Daniels, I just need to keep zooming out on what the DMV area, what the commanders have represented to a franchise that could not be proud of itself for so long. Its name, its building, its sewage system, its decade-long history, decade-long history of poor quarterback play. And Jayden Daniels as a rookie has the game of his life.

John, this was a guy who comes out of LSU and you're like, okay, how good is he really gonna be? It turns out he's as good as pretty much any rookie quarterback in recent memory. And this was a game where the commanders had five turnovers and the guy solves those problems by doing stuff like this. It's a remarkable thing to have the guy that you pray for actually be as good as you dreamed.

And now they're a 10-win team. This game, by the way, eliminates the Dallas Cowboys, for those who are wondering, what about the Cowboys? They've been knocked out now. And Eagles, let's keep in mind also, are a favorite to make the Super Bowl. And so this is an incredible marker in the history of a franchise that is needed. Yeah, moments of actual optimism grounded in evidence as opposed to just dreams.

It comes just days after there's at least a chance now they might move back to Washington, D.C. for the stadium. Yes, yes, legislation and all of that. So the Vikings, you know, they go to Seattle, who are reeling at this point. And the Sam Darnold experience continues. So if you're a Jet fan, OK, you're watching Sam Darnold start for the Vikings, a 13 and 2 team now, playing against Gino Smith, starting for the Seahawks,

also a playoff contender. And so this is one of those games where you're like, OK, we need to take this team incredibly seriously, because it's not just the defense, which we know has been good all season. We know that secondary is the best at celebrating in professional sports. Sam Darnold is just not the Sam Darnold that was seeing ghosts before. Sam Darnold was basically humiliated out of the NFL, it seemed like when he was in New York jet. He could not trust himself or his eyes or his instincts.

I'm seeing ghosts is what he was caught saying on a sideline. You were there. It was against Bill Belichick. So, of course. So the haunting is over. And Sam Darnold, now you have a choice. If you're the Vikings, do we pay him all this money? And that is another controversy.

But if you're just a fan of the Vikings, you look up at the standings and you say, OK, 13 and 2 Vikings, right behind the 13 two Lions and they play on January 5th for the division for the NFC and this is just one of those divisions that again the Packers are 10 and four and right behind these two teams and so a really strong win. You know again a close game, but it's incredible to see what these Vikings have Packers

play tonight on a Monday that football public one more NFL then we'll pivot to the to the college game that the hierarchy of the FC top teams all won the Pats gave the bills scare but Buffalo hangs on. We saw the chiefs on Saturday got out against the Texans and then the Ravens impressive when the first time they had beaten the Steelers in a while. AFC North now programs yes, Lamar, he's on this Mount Rushmore currently or

the contemporary version of the four quarterbacks in the league that you really have to respect. So it's Mahomes, it's Allen, it's Burrow and it's Lamar Jackson and the Steelers have been the team that has always played Lamar Jackson the toughest. And so you go into this game thinking this is a test for Lamar who still for all of his MVP trophies has struggled in the playoffs and struggled in specific Circumstances against teams and defenses like the Steelers and he he does it now look he throws a pick and yes

You're you're worried for a bit, but Lamar Jackson winning this game this decisively Yeah, it's an MVP race that's down to Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen right now and Lamar If you're gonna tell me it's gonna be him again I'm going to tell you I would take Allen but I understand the counterargument yeah the narrative might be frown since he's never won one Lamar exactly we shall see so Paul let's turn to the college playoffs. There we go and it here we can did feel this year opening weekend, let's just put it out there a bit of a dud so

we'll dive into the games in a second. But first, just your broad thoughts about what we saw. Four games, all four pretty decisive. A couple were routes. Does this format work? No, it doesn't, Jonathan. The best moment of the four-game playoff was the introduction of the game at Notre Dame Friday night. And it literally went straight downhill.

Every game was a blowout. Now, you look at some of the scores, and there were a lot of late touchdowns, but the biggest flaw in the system was that several commissioners tried to kill it once there was expansion going on. So, you had a bunch of commissioners in a room, and it had to be unanimous, you understand that, from D.C., and they made a terrible deal letting in the highest rated Power 5 conferences. Of course, there's only four And it had to be unanimous, you understand that from D.C. And they made a terrible deal, letting in the highest rated power five conferences. Of course, there's only four now with the Pac-12. So schools like Boise State and Arizona State,

who would have probably had to gone on the road in the first round, end up sitting there waiting for the opponents. You had Ohio State, another team that's probably one of the two or three best in the country. It was convoluted and it was really at times difficult to watch. The good news is it will get reshuffled in the future. This is only a two-year deal that they had to make.

But for the most exciting weekend in college football history, there's literally nothing to talk about that happened. Yeah, it was deeply uninspiring. So Paul, as you see the four, the winners there, and as you know today in Penn State, Texas, and Ohio State, you mentioned Ohio State. Beyond them, what are the other three schools? You see that they did something over the weekend that would say,

make you think, hey, they've got a shot to make a deep run in this tournament. Well, Texas is probably the team you have to watch. I mean, when you look at them, you find flaws, but they have an elite defense. And they ended up playing probably, yeah, the closest game, one of the closest games of the group, because it came down to a fourth down call against Clemson.

But ultimately, they have not only one of the better quarterbacks in the country, Quinn Ubers, they have the best backup in the quarterback named Arch Manning. You may have heard of his famous uncles and his grandfather, a couple of three Hall of Famers right there. So they're another school to keep your eye on, and they have one of the easier second round matchups,

which is really remarkable, as you mentioned, Ohio State. They end up going to the Rose Bowl on January 1st, Jonathan, and have to take on Oregon. They've already met once this year in an epic game in Eugene, it was a one point game. These are literally two of the three best schools in the country playing in the quarterfinals of the college football playoff.

Paul, you know I love you more when you were miserable and when your audience is miserable, but you mentioned looking ahead to two years from now, take me inside the room of power brokers. What does this look like to you in terms of how this is all going to change the system itself? Well, what's going to happen is you're going to seed it correctly. This is not like the NFL where you, where it's a little convoluted with the conference,

then the divisional winners, but ultimately it's going to be seeded one through 12. We're not going to get any of these convoluted matchups in the first round and it will be more entertaining. Another big problem for college football that they're dealing with and they had to deal with on Saturday is that two of the games, the two afternoon games, the one at Penn State, which was unwatchable, and the one at Austin, which was only slightly more watchable, were both competing with NFL games and not just random Carolina at the Jaguars. We're talking about serious games, Texans and the Chiefs, as well as the Ravens and the Steelers. And I don't think that will happen again. They had to compress the schedule.

The rest of the games, you have the New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. And then the following week, the games will be on Thursday night and Friday night. Why? To avoid the wild card round in the NFL. And then the final game will be on Monday night. These are not your normal college football afternoon,

evening, Saturday games. All right, well Well let's hope for better games in the coming rounds ESPN's Paul Feinbaum Paul thank you. We will talk to you again soon. Pablo two more topics for you one at a time first a really sad

and stunning headline out of the weekend. Ricky Henderson passing away at the age of 65 years old he of course the all time leader major league baseball in both stolen bases and runs. He also is someone who had on base a well over 400. The greatest leadoff hitter in the game,

not even a conversation. But frankly, one of the most exciting players to ever dumb the uniform, maybe a top 20, 25 guy of all time. Yeah, you're watching a video where when he breaks the stolen base record, he pulls the bass out of the ground and declares, I am the greatest. Yes. There was a theatricality to this guy, a mythology

to this guy, except it was substantiated by actual iconic acts and statistical feats. So Ricky Henderson, just the story of him, he's delivered early in his mother's car in the backseat. And to him, this was always the story of how he was presaged to be the all-time stolen base leader. I was born fast is the quote that Ricky always said. And there are so many quotes and stories about this guy, how he framed his first check instead of cashing it, it held on his wall and his accounting department with the A's was wondering what happened to

the million dollars that Ricky got paid. Turns out he was just celebrating it. There are just so many stories like that. But Ricky Henderson, he was also ahead of his time and I think underappreciated still. So Ricky Henderson, when it comes to this mix of both ego and charm, and also just an unapologetic dynamism, both in terms of his football style, physicality on the base pass, but then also the way that he would completely, completely destroy

another team by just being a guy without getting a hit could demoralize you, John. When you talk about the speed of him, in the end, it is a shame that at age 65, he's also, in that way, gone too soon. Yeah, you're right. He controlled the game from the base pass. He also played the game with such flair and style

and swagger that we see. People hated him. Yeah, the way the snap catches in the outfield, which we see now fairly prevently now, but at the time, again, way ahead of his time extraordinary player gone gone too soon yes, but we will end up more upbeat note. The Apple does not fall far from the tree. Charlie Woods, the son of Tiger here at the PNC championship in Orlando

Florida. Teas off and you as we watch, you can guess where this is going. That's his first hole. Pretty good, it turns out, Charlie Woods. I'm numb, John, to the idea at this point that we're just going to be watching the sons of pro athletes pretty soon. They're going to be dominating every sport you watch on television.

But this story and this hug, right? So Tiger Woods gets to be the rare thing. He was Goliath, and now he is David. He's the guy who was so destroyed by his injuries and his own mistakes that to see him being what we can all relate to, which is just a kind of just corny dad who's celebrating his son at the golf course, a son who he may not have to reckon with, could be better than him if all of us get our wishes and they come true because Tiger, of course, the greatest of all time. But Charlie doing this on this stage with this spotlight, with this ace, look, it's unrealistic to think that he would actually ever be better than Tiger. But when you can dream again, the story of today being what you can dream on? It's just a delightful thing to see Tiger

at his most human, his most vulnerable, like kind of tearing up. Because again, we know the relationship he had with his own dad, Earl. And he gets to be that character with his son, again, in a way that it's just a surreal story in the middle of the spotlight, in a way that, yeah, I didn't expect Charlie to be this good,

a child actor, kind of like his dad also. But yeah, heartwarming on a really cold winter. Yeah, and Tiger afterwards joking to us, said, well, hey, after that whole one, you gotta buy everybody a beer now. Charlie responds, I'm broke, I can't. I'm pretty sure the Woods family can find the money. I am confident. To pick up a tab for others.

And we should know. That Charlie's good for it. Like father, like son, it's Sunday they were read that's right so that's what we have a heck of a shot host of Pablo Torrey finds out heck of a sweater yes, Paul Paul Torrey from that a lot media. Thank you we'll talk to you again I like it Greenland is for sale on toll this is my I'm interested so that that's yeah put me in the running for Greenland I like it. We'll talk to you again real soon.