Morning Joe - Morning Joe 12/27/23

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

Israel expands Gaza offensive into 'new battle zone,' warns war will go on for many months

Beautiful live picture of the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree this morning. Hope you're enjoying some great holiday time with family and friends. Good morning. Welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, December 27th. I'm Willie Geist. Joe and Mika have the morning off and a lot to get to this morning, including Israeli forces now shifting their military efforts to southern and central Gaza, with officials warning the war could take many more months. Plus, hours from now, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas are set to meet with Mexican President Obrador as thousands of Central American migrants make their way to the southern border. We'll break down the key issues up for discussion there. Plus, Donald Trump continues to claim he should be immune from any prosecution surrounding

his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. We'll have the latest there. Also ahead, bus drivers across the country increasingly under attack on the job. We'll dig into an alarming trend and what officials are now doing about it. With us this morning, the host of Way Too Early, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, Washington Bureau Chief for USA Today, Susan Page, and former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four-star Navy Admiral James Stavridis. He is Chief International Analyst for NBC News. Good morning to you all. Let's begin together with Israel expanding now its

ground invasion in Gaza. This as the United States continues to urge Israel to protect civilian lives and to shift to a more low intensity operation. NBC News foreign correspondent Josh Letterman has the latest from Tel Aviv. Israel is warning that the war with Hamas will continue for many more months, despite all that global pressure for Israel to end this war quickly. In fact, the Israeli military says it is intensifying its attacks not only in southern Gaza, where there has been fierce fighting in Khan Yunis and in Rafah, but also in refugee camps in central Gaza, where on Christmas Eve we saw some 70 or more Palestinians killed in a strike on the Almagazi refugee camp.

Today, in southern Gaza, some 80 Palestinians were buried in a mass grave after their bodies were returned by Israeli authorities to the Gaza Strip. There was row upon row of blue body bag, a tractor that had to carve a path and a hole to bury these bodies as mourners showed up, hoping to identify the bodies of their loved ones. We also saw new video from Beit Hanun in northern Gaza, the first city hit during the war after Israel started retaliating for the Hamas terror attacks of October 7th. And it shows an utter wasteland with very few homes or structures for anybody to be able to go back to if and when this war actually ends. And in the meantime, a senior Netanyahu advisor, Ron Dermer, is now in Washington, where he has been meeting with top White House and State Department officials about what comes after Hamas, with the U.S. and Israel now at odds over what should happen after

this war. The U.S. saying Israel should not occupy the Gaza Strip, but Prime Minister Netanyahu saying Israel will need to maintain security control over the Gaza Strip indefinitely. NBC's Josh Letterman reporting for us from Tel Aviv. Josh, thanks so much. So, Admiral Stavridis, Mr. Dermer, Ron Dermer, well-known to our viewers here, a close advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Washington this week, talking with Secretary of State Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, who implored him to enter a new phase of the war, which is targeted going after Hamas leadership. Interesting, by contrast, to hear Prime Minister Netanyahu on the front lines yesterday or a couple of days ago now saying explicitly, there's no slowing of this war. We're going to go until we meet our objectives.

So how do you reconcile those two views from the United States and Israel? I don't think there is going to be a lot of reconciliation, at least in the short term. Willie, what you are going to see is this continued relentless attack, specifically going after really three things. One is the Hamas leadership. Number two are these tunnels underneath this Gaza Strip. And thirdly, on the better side of the coin, searching for the hostages. Those are the three military objectives at this point. And I think you're going to continue to see a very high level campaign. Now, having said all of that, I'll tell you where the conversation is going in Washington right now.

Gaza is its own little corner of hell. But what everyone is increasingly concerned about is a widening of this conflict. We saw strikes in Damascus yesterday by Israel against an Iranian Revolutionary Guard general. Very significant. You're seeing more activity from Hezbollah to the north of Israel. And out at sea, you know, the admiral is going to bring it up out at sea. We're seeing attacks against commercial shipping by another Iranian proxy group. So that piece of this, that expansion, Willie, I think is what has everyone's attention alongside trying to get the Israelis to dial it back. And I'll conclude with this. Oh, by the way, all this as we head into a U.S. election year.

Yeah, we're going to dig deeper into those Houthi attacks in the Red Sea thwarted yesterday, several of them by the United States Navy. So, Jonathan Lemire, obviously, this is a thorny situation to begin with. But as the Admiral points out, we're coming into an election year here, turning the corner. And the president is feeling pressure from Democrats, from progressives in this country. We've seen polling among particularly young voters who say they don't like the way he is handling the war between Israel and Gaza, the continued support for Israel. So, take us inside that meeting, if you could, yesterday between

Secretary of State Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, and Ron Dermer, the advisor to Prime Minister Netanyahu. What was it like in that room? Yeah, it's a real difference of opinion right now. And we have seen the rift, if you will, between the United States and Israel about Israel's conduct in this war only grow the longer it has taken. With Israel ramping up the attacks, civilian casualties mounting, suggesting this could be many more months. Well, we have heard now, Jake Sullivan was just in Israel a week or so back, urging now that Israel start winding down this phase of the war in a matter of weeks. So Israel definitely shifting that timeline. There is a difference of opinion as to what happens after the war,

whenever that may be, with, as you just noted, Netanyahu making clear that he thinks Israel needs to play some sort of role in the post-war Gaza, while the U.S. believes that an occupation there would be a significant mistake. There are also the U.S., again, delivered messages to Jerusalem via Dermer to try to limit civilian casualties. To this point, those requests have largely fallen on deaf ears. So no one has suggested to me that any real breakthrough was made from last night's meetings, which did ramp up really late. We'll learn more as the day goes on today, Susan Page. But let's let me take the politics piece of it to you, because Willie is right. I mean, the president has here, his poll numbers have really slipped. They've reached new lows in recent weeks, in part because of how he's managed this war. Now,

campaign aides will tell you that his approval rating among Jewish Americans has gone up. But certainly among young, among liberals, among Muslim Americans and voters of color, it's really slipped. And for a campaign that privately acknowledges that it's got issues with its base, that the Democratic base does not seem really excited to vote for President Biden again, that's a real problem. And of course, young people have been an important part of President Biden's coalition, important faction of support for him in the last campaign. And at the moment, polls show Donald Trump doing well among young voters, among voters under 35. That's a great political concern. You know, the administration finds itself facing a more divided American public, not just among young people. As we see these photographs, this know, the administration finds itself facing a more divided American public, not just among young people. As we see these photographs, this footage of the devastation in Gaza, of the deaths among women and children and civilians, aid workers, journalists.

That creates a lot of pressure on the administration to do more to rein in Israel. So these latest statements by the military chief in Israel and by Ron Dermer are alarming to the administration because it shows them, it shows Israel publicly determined to increase the war, to continue the war, not to figure out ways to roll back the combat, to become more targeted on it and to do more to allow aid to go to the civilians in Gaza. This is a big international and domestic issue for the Biden administration to have to deal with. And again, Prime Minister Netanyahu on the front lines two days ago saying this war will end when we say it ends. We're not going to listen to outside pressure about how fast or how slowly to move. So as the admiral mentioned,

there are fears of a widening war. Militants in Syria launched several rockets against the U.S. and a coalition of forces. According to two U.S. defense officials, the attacks happened yesterday at a patrol base in Syria. There were no reported injuries or damage to infrastructure. Those rocket attacks in Syria follow strikes in Iraq carried out by the United States in retaliation for a drone attack that injured American soldiers. NBC News correspondent Ali Arouzi reports on that from London. So the U.S. military has attacked Iranian-backed militant groups in Iraq hours after U.S. personnel were injured in a drone strike on a U.S. air base on Tuesday morning in Iraq. Now, the U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said three sites used by a group called Khatib Hezbollah

were hit in response to attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria. So who are Khatib Hezbollah? Well, they're financed and armed by Iran and have been one of the most prominent groups involved in attacks on U.S. targets in Iraq for some time now. It forms part of the Hashd al-Shabi umbrella group of militias under Iran's patronage that's also been incorporated into the Iraqi army. But these attacks are nothing new. The U.S. has repeatedly targeted sites linked to militant groups in Iraq and Syria in recent years. And depending on the political situation, these can ebb and flow considerably. Now, given what's going on in the region and the heightened tensions, the attacks have dramatically increased.

Since October 17th alone, there have been over a hundred of these types of attacks by Iranian-backed militias. So as the conflict in Gaza continues, Iran keeps issuing threats which are carried out by their proxies with alarming frequency these days, whether that's the Houthis disrupting shipping in the Red Sea or militias in the Levant targeting U.S. interests. NBC's Ali Aruzi reporting for us there. Also in the region, tensions continue to rise in the Red Sea, where a U.S.-led international maritime force is on patrol guarding shipping routes from rebel groups. On social media yesterday, U.S. Central Command confirmed the United States deployed planes to shoot down missiles and drones launched by Houthi rebels. So, Admiral, this is exactly what you were talking about a moment ago,

coming from all angles, all Iranian-backed groups, whether it's the Houthis or it's Hezbollah, obviously Hamas down in Gaza. So this is right in your wheelhouse. Let's talk about the shipping lanes in the Red Sea and the United States responsibility here. They thwarted those attacks yesterday from these sort of low level drones. What is the United States going to do if the attacks are ramped up, if it's a missile strike or something heavier coming at them? Yeah, let's start with the context here. The Red Sea is the size of the state of California. So it's enormous. You can see it.

It's the blue body of water in the center of that graphic. We're trying to patrol it, if you will, with about half a dozen guided missile destroyers. So picture trying to control California with six police cars is just an enormous challenge. And that's before you get into the area, Willie, just south of the Arabian Peninsula, where you have double the size of Alaska. You have about another half dozen ships there. So it sounds great, right? The United States is on patrol. And good news, we've created an international coalition, as we are wont to do, this one called Prosperity Guardian, Operation Prosperity Guardian, bringing in, and this is a good thing so far, about a dozen allies are going to contribute ships. But boy, it's like trying to drink the ocean at this point. It's a huge area. So that's the context. I think we are unfortunately going to see the Houthis,

who are simply creatures of Iran. They're acting under direction of Iran, continue to go after shipping. And here's why you ought to care. Do you remember two years ago when a ship closed the Suez Canal because it turned sideways in the Suez Canal? That brought the global supply chain not quite to its knees, but significant slowdown. That's because about 20 percent of the world's shipping passes through the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, which is at the very top of the Red Sea. So we had to worry about this a lot. And to answer your question, what do we do about it? In addition to being defensive and getting more ships out to patrol and keep that flow of global shipping open, I think we're going to have to ultimately go after the Houthi camps ashore on the Arabian Peninsula and possibly go after Iran itself. And back to the political side of this, that's exactly where the administration does not want to go, does not want to expand this.

On the other hand, he will get pressure from the right, from the Republican Party, saying, why aren't you doing more to respond to these attacks? It's a conundrum for the administration. And of course, it lands even as they're trying to deal with what's happening in Gaza and ding, ding, ding, what's happening in Ukraine. So, Admiral, put together what's happening in the Red Sea with the attacks Ali Aruzi was just talking about, those right there, 105 total attacks on U.S. troops. That's an awful lot more than I think most Americans realize coming in Syria and Iraq. What is the objective here from Iran? As you say, rightly, these are proxy groups for Iran.

What do they want? Are they trying to draw the United States into war by attacking our troops on bases, by going after ships in the Red Sea? No, I think what they are trying to do is avoid going into a big war with the United States. And that's why our responses have to be measured. But they are going to have to be increasingly forceful. What Iran is trying to do here is take advantage of the situation in Gaza, where Israel has committed a significant portion of its military power. Iran wants to take advantage of that, Willie, by pushing from the north with Hezbollah, by conducting more attacks in and around Syria and Iraq, where we have thousands of troops in Iraq and hundreds of troops in Syria. They're not in the best defensive positions. Iran is going to test that. And then this

shipping route approach is designed to create a lot of chaos, elevate oil prices. That's good news for Iran, of course. And lastly, Iran wants to appear strong, powerful in the Middle East. They're also showing their capabilities to their two sponsors, China and Russia. So Iran will continue pushing, my view, until we push back a lot harder than we have so far. That's not welcome news in the White House. All right. We're going to pause for just 60 seconds. A lot more to discuss with the admiral, with John and with Susan, including a new round of troop mobilization in Ukraine following the country's strike on a Russian warship. Plus, we'll get the admiral's take on the situation at the U.S. southern border. Morning Joe is back in just one minute. Yesterday on the targeting of a Russian ship by Ukraine's air force in Crimea,

video captures the explosion triggered by Ukrainian pilots who say the ship was destroyed in the attack. Russia's defense ministry confirmed this to state media. The ship had been hit, but did not say whether the vessel was permanently damaged. Russia already has moved most of its ships away from Crimea due to similar attacks. Meanwhile, the commander in chief of Ukraine's military called for another round of troop mobilization yesterday, the first since Russia's invasion nearly two years ago. Last week, Ukraine's military leadership proposed drafting up to half a million more troops in the fight against Russia now approaching

its second year. So, Jonathan Lemire, obviously, as we look at what's going on, there are moments like the destruction of that ship, the Russian military ship, and then there's pushback where Russia makes advances as well. Stalemate may not be the right word, but frustrating, I know, to people who support Ukraine and want to see progress here. Obviously, all of this, as we sit through this holiday break, caught up in American politics as well, where Congress left a couple of weeks ago without providing that support that President Biden had requested. Yeah, Congress back next week after the recess. Before they left town, the Senate felt like they made some progress on that border security for foreign aid deal, which would include funds to Ukraine, but didn't reach an agreement.

And even once they do, it faces an uncertain future in the House. But in terms of what's happening there in Europe, every so often it seems that Ukraine wants to remind Russia that it can strike in Russian-controlled territory or in Mother Russia itself. And this was the latest example of that. So but Admiral, you know, this is certainly a spectacular explosion and a win for the Ukrainian forces. But along the front lines, the fighting is pretty frozen, partially because of the winter weather has set in, but also because neither side can really make any sort of significant inroads. What's your assessment there of where things stand on the front? There's some reporting that Putin of Russia might be open to some sort of ceasefire talks,

but only to solidify his gains. He's not given any territory back. So that seems like a non-starter with the Ukrainians. But where do you see this going in the months ahead? Before we get to that, I simply have to make a comment about that strike, that massive explosion you showed. Ships don't blow up like that unless they are full of ammunition or fuel. That, I would say, knowing the class of ship, it's a tank carrier kind of ship, probably was full of Iranian drones, I would guess. So that's a big win for the Iranians. And I wouldn't understate the point you made a moment ago, Jonathan. This is very significant. Ukraine has pushed back the entire Black Sea fleet, despite the fact that they have no

Navy. They're doing it with drones, long range missiles, intelligence, cyber. Russia has been forced to retreat. That's keeping the shipping lanes open and is allowing the Ukrainian economy to continue. It's an extraordinary military story, and it's going to be recognized as a real pivot in how military force is applied. Break, break. Let's go to the front. I actually think Willie stalemate is the right word right now. I don't see any chance of a significant movement across the border. You're showing the yellow Ukraine, the red Russia. I don't see a significant movement, certainly through the winter. What could change in the spring is the addition of F-16 tactical fighters being supplied by U.S. and our NATO

allies. That gives the Ukrainians something they have not had in this fight, which is the chance to create air superiority over those ground forces that might create a thrust opportunity. But frankly, I think this one is kind of settling down toward a frozen conflict. That's why you're hearing Putin talk about negotiation. Ukraine will give it, I think, one more big push in spring 2024 if that does not crack the Russian lines or something doesn't change in Moscow. I think this one is headed toward a negotiation. Last thought, it won't happen, however, until after the U.S. election. Putin absolutely will not go to a negotiating table until he sees the results of the 24 election.

He will think to himself, if former President Trump becomes President Trump, that's a better negotiator for him. He'll wait to see that card turned over. But long story short, I think continued stalemate, probable negotiation toward the very end of 2024. Admiral, this is Susan. Let's just look at the shorter term. The Biden White House has made it a big priority of trying to get this aid for Ukraine, but it is not guaranteed that it will get through Congress. What are the consequences in the immediate future if that aid is not approved, is not coming from the United States? Yeah, in a word, they're dire for Kiev. Now, I don't think Russia, even if we cut off all funds, would have the capability to simply sweep across the country and conquer Kiev over a weekend.

It's not that kind of dire. It is the kind of dire that occurs when your supply of ammunition is bleeding off. And there's still, Susan, two or three months of full strength ammunition in that pipeline. U.S. European Command, commanded by General Chris Cavoli, my successor several times over, is in charge of that. That'll continue. I'm cautiously optimistic. I underline the word cautious that this package will get through early in the new year. And then final thought, the Europeans are a big part of this. They are half of all the aid that's going to Ukraine. While there are some cracks in the support in various countries in Europe, I think the Europeans will stand on this one as well. So I'm hoping the center will hold. I give the Ukrainians two or three months before Putin could start to really

mobilize and move harder across that line. I don't think it's a complete collapse in the offing here, but it is deeply worrisome. Again, the word dire. All right. We'll keep an eye on that. And Admiral, before we let you go, I want to get your take on this. Secretary of State Blinken, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas will travel to Mexico City today to meet with Mexican President Andres Obrador. They're expected to discuss new agreements concerning the surge of migrants seeking entry into the United States. The visit comes as up to 6,000 Central American migrants currently are making their way to the U.S.-Mexico border. As we've said, the visit also is key to President Biden's political agenda as Republicans are seeking action on border policy in return for

their support on foreign military aid. So everything we've been talking about this morning tied together here. So, Admiral, what's your view of this meeting? What possibly diplomatically can be done here in a conversation between Secretary Blinken, Secretary Mayorkas and President Obrador of Mexico to stem the tide of migrants arriving at the border? Before I was the NATO commander, Willie, as I think you know, I spent three years as commander U.S. Southern Command, all military to military engagements south of the United States. So I know this territory a bit. In the end, all roads to border security lead through Mexico City.

We tend to think to ourselves that we've got this 1800 mile border from the Pacific Ocean to the Caribbean along the Rio Grande River, as though on the other side of it is a parking lot. And we should just figure it out on our side of the border. There's no silver bullet here. So if you take this migrant challenge, it's really three things. It's the source where there's extreme poverty and gangs. And in the source, by the way, is not just Central America. It stretches to Venezuela. Many of the migrants crossing the border are from China, from sub-Saharan Africa. So it's a global sourcing challenge. And there we need to work with our allies bit by bit, trying to help make conditions better in those places. Then it's the transit zone. Here's where we get into Mexico. Mexico can help enormously. And they did and they have at times kept migrants on their side of the border, but allowed us to come and do processing for asylum requests before these people set foot in the United States. And then finally, to the political season in Washington, it's it's here at home.

It's the demand signal that we send, if you will, from our labor force that is drawing these people here. We need to measure and regulate that. And yes, we've got to also physically control the southern border. So it's a big basket of challenges. Mexico can be an enormous part in all three of those zones. Fascinating. Former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four-star Navy Admiral James Stavridis with such incredible range covering these topics. I'm tempted to ask you about the NFL playoff picture, too, but we'll give you a rest and talk to you later in the week. Admiral, thanks so much. We always appreciate you. You bet.

Coming up next, former President Donald Trump continues to push for immunity from federal prosecution surrounding his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. We'll show you the latest argument Trump is making online. Morning Joe's coming right back. It's a live picture. Sun's still not up yet. 6.32 in the morning, Reagan National Airport in Washington. In a recent survey, the Daily Mail asked voters to describe in one word what they thought

Donald Trump and Joe Biden will want if voted into the White House next year. The results were compiled into a word cloud where the most popular word is the most prominent on the graphic. For Biden, the most popular word is the most prominent on the graphic. For Biden, the most popular word was nothing, followed by economy and peace. For Trump, the most popular word was revenge, followed closely by dictatorship and power. Trump then posted that word cloud to his social media page. Very proud of the outcome there. Jonathan Lemire, certainly this is not a scientific study, but perhaps instructive on both counts in some way. Donald Trump really enjoying the fact that people associate his return to the White House with revenge, possibly because that's

explicitly what he has said this is going to be about. And on the other hand, if you're Joe Biden or the Biden campaign, you probably don't love seeing the word nothing. The first thing that comes to mind for voters. No, on the eve of an election year, nothing is tough, a tough word to see the center of your word cloud. But at least President Biden's team didn't then post that on social media, unlike what Donald Trump did. And this is a man, Susan, who has flat out told his supporters, I will be your retribution. He and his aides talk about how he will get revenge on his political foes, crossing all kinds of lines of norms and democratic values to do so. And I guess when he says something, we should just believe him. And if we believe him, that's pretty scary stuff. You know, that's really a lesson from 2016,

right, where there was a lot of debate about taking President, taking Donald Trump, the candidate, literally or figuratively. And we just we discovered that, yes, what he says he meant, he means that he does things that seem unlikely in the when he says them initially. He's making Trump is making no secret about his agenda if he wins the White House again at the end of next year. And so we should take him seriously when he describes these things. And as you say, there's a big warning flag here for the for the Biden campaign as well, for having failed. If president if former President Trump has outlined a clear agenda of

revenge, the current president, Joe Biden, has a political imperative to outline an agenda that Americans understand and they hope, one, that they will back and support. That is something I think it's fair to say he has not done so far. So Donald Trump continues to claim he should be immune from any prosecution surrounding his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Over the weekend, the former president and his attorneys demanded a federal appeals court toss out the federal election interference case against him. And he reiterated that stance last night in a post on Truth Social, writing, I wasn't campaigning. The election was over. I was doing my duty as president to expose and further investigate a rigged and stolen election. It objectively was not. Many of the people who worked with and around

the former president have said as much. Joining us now, MSNBC justice and legal affairs analyst Anthony Coley. He was most recently the top spokesman at the Department of Justice under Attorney General Merrick Garland. Anthony, good morning. It's good to see you. So it feels like we've had this conversation about whether or not the former president should be or was immune. This has been sort of asked and answered, to borrow a legal term. What's your take on the take from the president, the former president's lawyers, that he should have immunity from this huge federal case looming over him? Right.

Well, thank you for having me. This is an untested legal question, but I tend to believe that sometimes the law and common sense are aligned. And I just cannot imagine that any court would give Donald Trump a lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card for criminal acts committed while he was president. And another thing, I really was struck by this word cloud that you just mentioned, and you and Susan just had this great conversation about. I think more than anything, Willie, is that that cloud, that graphic that he reposted was posted from a position of weakness, not a position of strength.

I think he knows full well that next year at this time, he could, number one, he could may have be lost to Joe Biden again decisively, or he could actually be criminally convicted by a jury of his peers in a court of law. And I think more than anything, what we see with both of these posts is a president that is that is afraid. Anthony, I think there's the other possibility, though, that he could have won and he could be making the criminal prosecutions go away. And I want to get your take on the development we had at the very end of last week, which was in the Supreme Court, did not decide to immediately hear Jack Smith's effort to expedite the appeals process to get the January 6th federal election interference case on the fast track. So there's going to be at least some delays, it would appear, from that early spring start date. So what's your read on whether you think SCOTUS will perhaps

eventually pick it up after it goes through the process? And when might that trial actually start? So I think, yes, they're going to eventually pick this up. But Jonathan, I spent some time home in North Carolina this weekend, and on the wall in my mother's kitchen was the serenity prayer. Do you remember the first line of the serenity prayer? God, allow me to accept the things that I cannot change. And that's how I feel about this question. There are certain things that we're going to have to leave to the courts to have. But I think at the end of the day, what is good, what is right, what is just, I think those types of things will always win out. And so we're going to let the courts do

what they're going to do. And I think at the end of the day, Donald Trump is going to be held accountable for his efforts to overturn the election. It's unclear when he's going to face accountability, but he's going to face accountability in a court of law by a jury of his peers. I love your invocation of the serenity pair. I think we all could use a little of that these days. Speaking of, Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco is calling out Republicans who argue the Justice Department is out to get former President Trump. Monaco says those claims are leading to an unprecedented rise in threats against law enforcement and government officials. Here's what she said. Those claims bear no resemblance to the Justice Department that I know. The Justice Department that I know is filled with

dedicated men and women, investigators, lawyers, prosecutors, analysts, professional staff, who get up every day, Pierre, they get up every day without regard to who's in the White House or who's in Congress. I get something called urgent reports. These are reports that come in from the field, from U.S. attorneys all across the country. And on a weekly basis, sometimes more often, I am getting reports about threats to public officials, threats to our prosecutors, threats to law enforcement agents who work in the Justice Department, threats to judges. In fact, just this week, just this week, Pierre, we've had cases involving threats to kill FBI agents, a Supreme Court justice and three presidential candidates. Three. That's just this week. That is Deputy Attorney

General Lisa Monaco. So, Anthony, I'm curious what you're hearing from your former colleagues at the Department of Justice about all this. It's no secret why it's happening. It's been a central strategy of Donald Trump and the people around him to attack anyone who they view as hurting him, no matter how justifiably. Yeah, Willie, I can tell you from my time at DOJ, I was in meetings with both the attorney general and the deputy attorney general when they were discussing some of these threats. And you want to talk about sober moments. This is something that they take very seriously. But, you know, there's also this recognition that it doesn't have to be this way.

You all rightly noted that on more than one occasion, time after time, again, Donald Trump is stirring the pot and he's inspiring people to go out and harm or threaten to harm their fellow Americans and all because of a big lie. And there are downstream effects of that. I think about Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss, these election workers in Georgia. I also think about people like the secretary of state in Georgia, Raffensperger, and the governor of Georgia and the lieutenant governor. Willie, these are all people, Republicans, who voted for Donald Trump, who supported him, who wanted him to win, but they refused to go along with Donald Trump's big lie, this big conspiracy. And all of these people are receiving threats because of that.

You know, my heart hopes that at some point no one in Colorado or any of these other states are harmed by these type of threats. But history suggests that there are going to be other downstream effects from these types of things. And people's safety is at risk because of because of Donald Trump and his incendiary rhetoric. So, Anthony, what what turns this around? We've seen this long standing deterioration and in support of trust in big institutions, including law enforcement, and now these very urgent threats against officials. So what can be done about it to try to turn this around and make it better? Susan, it's good to see you. One of the things, I was reading the newspapers this morning, and there's this wonderful piece in the op-ed pages, and it talked about how there is a segment of the population, Trump supporters, who still believe that—that there's people who are not blindly loyal to Donald Trump when presented with the facts.

Now, this particular piece focused on the jury trial as the inflection point. But what we know, to your question, is that there are other inflection points here. There is a reason in the context of campaigns why individuals spend thousands of dollars to invest in door knocking programs because voters are receptive to hearing from their neighbors about things that they care about. And so I think that all of us have a sphere of influence and a circle of friends. And it's going to be incumbent upon all of us to educate those within our sphere of influence as to what the facts are in this election interference case. We're not going to have to wait necessarily on a jury trial, but all of us should use our own circle of friends and inform those to the facts in this case.

And Jack Smith is said to have a very, very strong case prepared here. MSNBC justice and legal affairs analyst Anthony Coley. Great to have your insights this morning. Thanks so much for being here. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we're seeing a dramatic spike in violent attacks on public transit workers across the United States. Tell you what's driving that new trend and how authorities are responding. That's next on Morning Joe. Municipal bus drivers are coming under attack at an alarming new rate, and the Federal Transit Administration now is taking action across the country to address that dramatic spike in assaults. Investigative reporter Candace Wynn from our NBC Bay Area affiliate reports

on the California system that may be the most dangerous in the country. From New York to California, they are essential to the public transit system. But the nation's bus drivers can also be sitting ducks facing a dramatic spike in violent attacks. According to the Federal Transit Administration, in recent years, there's been a 121 percent increase in transit worker assaults like this one. In July, gunfire shattered glass around this bus driver on Oakland, California's AC transit system, which according to the FTA's preliminary 2023 data, has the highest rate of assaults on transit workers in the country. Something AC transit bus driver Tina Gonzalez

knows all too well. Got hit across my face, punched about seven or eight times, blacked out, got punched, woke up from it. This was not the only time you've been attacked. I've been attacked four other times. Surveillance cameras show a 2017 assault on Gonzalez. She says the attacks now are more frequent and more violent. Have you ever feared for your life? When a kid pulled a gun on me, my supervisor told me one time was just remember you're the only one on that bus that probably doesn't have a gun. It scares the hell out of me. AC Transit declined an interview but said in an email 2023 data is still being collected. The agency said it had a broader definition of assault than

other systems, but that one act of violence is too many and it's adding better protective barriers for drivers. Public records requests for bus surveillance videos show what other California Bay Area drivers are facing. Violent attacks. I'm going to go f***ing s***. Pepper spray assaults. You better get off the bus. Why? And even a kidnapping by a passenger with a machete. Turn around, bro. What are real solutions you want as an operator?

A better shield. Not these fake shields that AC Transit made. Something that, like like New York has, they have those boxed in. This is what most AC Transit buses that we've been seeing have right now. These partial plastic barriers. As for New York, they're testing out these fully enclosed compartments. Both local and national transit leaders tell me they're keeping an eye out on those prototypes to see what they can learn. My top priority is to redesign the bus. John Costa is the president of the Amalgamated Transit Union, representing operators across the U.S. There's more stabbings going on. It's horrible. I mean, I have grown adults come in my office and cry.

Costa is working with the FTA on new safety measures authorized under President Biden's 2021 infrastructure law. But with regulations still being written, he says the road to safety has been too slow for drivers like Gonzalez. I never missed a day at work. Now it's like scary to go to work. She now worries any day at work could be her last. Sad state of affairs. We have to build protective boxes for our bus drivers. We're so grateful for the work they do every day. NBC's Candace Wynn reporting for us. Coming up here, a live report from the southern border as Secretary of Stateony Blinken is expected to meet with Mexico's president today to discuss migrants crossing into the United States. Morning Joe, we'll be right back. Find a miracle.

Still a two possession game. P pistons throw it out of bounds the losing streak reaches 27 consecutive games that is the longest wow the detroit pistons set an nba single season record with their 27th consecutive loss last night. Detroit started off on a 22-8 run, but outscored by the Nets the rest of the first half, falling behind at the break. A 41-point effort from Cade Cunningham, who's a great player on a bad team, got the Pistons ahead early in the fourth. Brooklyn, though, took over to win 118-112.

The Pistons now just one loss away from the overall record of 28 consecutive losses set by the Philadelphia 76ers over a stretch that bridged a couple of different seasons. So Jonathan Lemire, the Pistons have the single season consecutive loss record. They can go for that all-time consecutive loss record two nights from now in Boston, playing the best team in the NBA right now. The Pistons have not won, ready for this, since three days before Halloween. Remember Halloween? Feels like a lifetime ago. Bad team going against the best team, your Boston Celtics in two nights. Yeah, I like our chances, Willie. You know, certainly as a fan of growing up to the

Larry Bird 1980s Celtics, I hated those Pistons teams. Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, particularly Bill Lambeer. So I can't say I feel that bad for them now. But that is a good sports city. You're right about Cave Cunningham. He is a good player. Just stuck on a truly terrible team.

And the schedule, they get the Raptors the day after the Celtics, you know, maybe. But there's not a lot of gimmies here. This losing streak could continue for a while. And I'll just note very briefly, Celtics looked really good on Christmas Day. That was my favorite present I got was going into L.A., beating the Lakers, beat L.A. Celtics stay healthy. If the Celtics stay healthy, they'll be in the mix to the end. But that's always a question.

Yeah, best record in the NBA right now. That's a tough Eastern Conference at the top there. We got the Celtics, the Bucs, the Sixers, Orlando playing well. Knicks, my Knicks, Jalen Brunson is a revelation. Looking good. We'll see what happens. All right.