Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/23/23

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Authorities probe motive in deadly Monterey Park dance hall shooting 

I believe the weapon that was recovered at the Alhambra location is not legal to have here in the state of California. California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, but yet look what we just had today. So let's look at across our nation, see what works and what doesn't. I could tell you this, the status quo is not working. So we need to re-examine what we're doing and what may work better. And I hope that this tragedy doesn't just go on a long list of many others that we don't even talk about until the next one comes up. That is the Los Angeles County Sheriff yesterday answering questions about the weapon used by the gunman who killed 10 people late Saturday night. We're going to have the very latest in the

investigation and the stories of the heroes who stopped the shooter from taking more lives. Also ahead, more classified material is found at President Biden's home. But the Justice Department did not initiate this latest search. It comes as the president's chief of staff is leaving the White House. We'll tell you about the person in line to fill the position. I think Ron Klain stayed in this position. He did longer than any other chief of staff for a Democratic president. Oh, I see. I know what you mean. And we'll have the latest developments from Eastern Europe as allies are at odds over

sending tanks. But even that's changing on Friday. The news was Germany was going to block the tanks. Now they're talking about actually letting Poland send tanks. It's going to be. Yeah, it looks like the tanks are going to be going to Ukraine. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, January 23rd.

With us, the host of Way Too Early and White House Peer Chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire and MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle. Mike's here for the morning. That's if he doesn't, you know, do what he does. The Irish goodbye, put the jacket on the back of the chair. We'll see how long. We'll see in a few minutes, yeah. All right, we're going to get to all these stories. Have an awful lot to talk about.

Ambassador Bill Taylor is going to be here talking about Ukraine. Let's talk first, though, about NFL playoffs. First, Jonathan LeBere, I'll go to you. There were two quarterbacks that did very well. Patrick Mahomes gutted it out, helped the Chiefs win despite a high ankle sprain. And Joe Burrow, just circle the date yesterday. Burrow in a snowstorm in Buffalo. Today he took it to the next level.

Everybody already knew he was good. But Joe Burrow yesterday, I'm sorry, I know you're going to flinch, but, you know, I'm not saying he's going to be Montana. I'm not saying he's going to be Namath. I'm not saying he's going to be Brady. But he certainly is the best right now, one of the best right now. And he did it under the worst possible circumstances. And Josh Allen allen who coming into

the year many would have said may have been one of the two best quarterbacks just finished what at least for him was a dreadful season and yesterday was just a fitting ending to the season where a great quarterback just underperformed all year yeah certainly burrow has the same coolness calmness leadership in the pocket of a Brady or a Montana. That is definitely fair. He was fantastic yesterday. The way he would step up in the pocket, never panic, make the right read, battled the elements, battled an incredibly emotional scene. DeMar Hamlin, of course, who had suffered, who went into cardiac arrest a few weeks ago, he was at the game. We're seeing him there. Remarkable that he was able to feel well enough to make it to the game.

But Burrow and the Bengals were just fantastic, and they were much better than Josh Allen, who, you're right, was really up and down all year. And the Bengals overcame both the bills, the elements, and thoroughly dominated that game. And now they get the Chiefs, you know, who didn't really have any trouble with the Jaguars, as we expected. The big storyline will be just how hurt is Patrick Mahomes? He suffered that high ankle sprain early in the game, missed basically about a quarter. Should be noted his backup chat, and he led a touchdown drive. So it helps to have a competent backup around.

Mahomes says he'll be okay. MRI says high ankle sprain. But he was clearly, as you can see it here, clearly limping around on the field. So we'll see. If he's not 100%, though the Chiefs are home, that's going to be tough against the Bengals. But Burrow versus Mahomes is a quarterback duel for the ages in a rematch of last year's AFC title game, which the Bengals won. And, you know, as Tony Romo said, and Tony Romo knows something about high ankle sprains yesterday, he said, you know what? A guy can have a high ankle sprain, adrenalinerenaline can push him out to finish

a game. You wake up the next morning, you can't walk. Tony Rumba was saying yesterday that anybody that says, oh, Mahomes will definitely play next game, not so fast. We'll just have to wait and see. Mike, let's talk about two other quarterbacks, or at least

two other games. Let's talk about the Niners and the Cowboys. Dak, you know, the team's built around him. He never comes through in the clutch. I thought it was something when he was getting angry at the Cowboys kicker last week when he blows one game after another, and he did it again yesterday. Two interceptions in the first half. The Cowboys desperately needed Dak to finally have a good game.

He just can't come through in the clutch. And now you have these Dallas Cowboys who haven't been to an NFC championship game since 1995, 27 years. Yeah. You know, Joe, I'm just surprised that Jerry Jones hasn't fired the coach and the defensive coordinator and the receivers coach for the Cowboys. I mean, they end up, you know, one of their starting tight end, I believe, steps out of bounds with the game clock ticking down to its end.

And you're right. The Cowboys are out again, out of the running. But this weekend proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that the National Football League is, what every football fan seems to know, a quarterback's league. If you have a quarterback, you've got a shot at going all the way. So we had Jalen Hurts. We had Patrick Mahomes. You had Josh Allen. And of course, you had Joe Cool, Joe Burrow.

And it was fascinating to watch, and a lot of it depends on the protection they get. Burrow's protection was incredible compared to what the Bills did, Jonathan. The Bills just collapsed defensively. They did. And a lot of that has to do, Jonathan Lemire, with injuries. I mean, the thing is, Bills so banged up. We know obviously about DeMar, but their best defensive player banged up. The whole team just, I mean, they're just a shadow of themselves, Jonathan Lemire. Yeah, and Von Miller was that pass rusher the Bills brought in basically for this run, playoffs,

and he was hurt, couldn't play. And the Bengals had a few offensive lineman injuries as well, but you wouldn't have known it yesterday. They played well and gave Burrow time. We should be remiss. We should briefly mention the fourth game of the weekend. I was going to say, Jonathan, we buried the lead. I've got to say the Eagles look like monsters.

Remember the old monsters of the midway? Man, these guys are the monsters of, I don't know, what stadium? Vet Stadium, Telecom, QQR, Bitcoin Stadium. Whatever it is, they're the monsters of Philadelphia. They could run. I mean, the running game looked amazing. Jalen Hurts' running looked amazing. Jalen Hurts' running looked amazing. Jalen Hurts' passing looked amazing.

Their defense looked amazing. Listen, people are looking at this game. A lot of Giants fans are hanging their head thinking how terrible they are. It's not that the Giants were this bad. They're not. This is just how good this Eagles team is. Yeah, they obliterated the Giants. This game was over in a matter of minutes.

I mean, look, the Giants have had a great run. Their magic ran out after Minnesota. Daniel Jones did not play well Saturday. Basically, the whole team didn't. But you're right. This was more about the Eagles than the Giants. There were questions about Hurts, how healthy he is. He had been hurt at the end of the season, missed some time.

He looked fantastic. You know, shied away from some contact. That's fine. He played great, and they were up by so much. They were able to rest him at the end. But they looked terrific in every facet of the game, running the ball, throwing the ball on defense. And Eagles 49ers next week is a classic in the making.

Yeah. I love the 49ers, Mike. There's so much to love about them, whether you're talking about McCaffrey on the offensive side of the ball or Bosa on the defensive side of the ball. I mean, so many great players, a great organization. It's been a great organization for decades.

But man, they are running up against an extraordinary team. I've got to say right now, the two hottest teams of the four that were remaining, of the four remaining, I mean, I think if you had to guess, you might say we're going to be seeing an Eagles-Bingles Super Bowl. Well, that could well be, but they're going to have to get past the 49ers on Sunday,

next Sunday in Philadelphia. That game is going to be wild. The 49ers are a great club, and they're well-led. Their coach is incredible. The game plans that they have are incredible. You can't count the 49ers out. Anybody with George Kittle and, you know, McCaffrey, terrific team. Terrific team.

Yeah, I love the Niners. All right, let's get to our top story this morning. We'll start with the very latest developments in the deadly mass shooting Saturday night in Monterey Park, California. Ten people were killed and at least 10 others were injured when a man opened fire inside a ballroom packed with people who were celebrating the Lunar New Year. Authorities say the 72-year-old gunman died yesterday from a self-inflicted gunshot wound as police closed in on his van in a parking lot in Torrance, California. That's about 30 miles from the scene of the shooting. The Los Angeles County Sheriff says two heroes stopped the suspect from carrying out another shooting on Saturday night at a ballroom nearby in Alhambra.

The suspect fled the scene after they were able to disarm him. Joining us now, NBC News correspondent Kathy Park. She lives in Monterey Park, California. Kathy, what's the latest? She's live there. Sorry. Mika, good morning to you. Yeah, it was supposed to be a weekend of celebrations and festivities,

but it has been marked by tragedy. And right behind me, you are looking at a growing memorial outside of that dance hall where the mass shooting took place. It happened roughly around 1030 Saturday evening. Police say that the gunman entered this building, began shooting indiscriminately, killed 10, injuring 10 others, and moved to that second location you mentioned a few minutes away in Alhambra, California. But at that location, we are told that two community members were able to disarm the suspect. However, the suspect did get away, and there was an hours-long manhunt, but that manhunt ended in Torrance, California, which is about 30 minutes outside of Monterey Park. There was a white van that officials were looking for.

They were eventually able to corner the suspect in that white van parked in the shopping center. And the sheriff gave a description about what happened next. Take a listen. Our sheriff's SWAT team approached and cleared the van and determined the suspect sustained a self-inflicted gunshot wound and was pronounced dead at the scene. Investigators conducted a search of the vehicle and determined the male inside the van was the mass shooting suspect. And police, they have identified the suspect, a 72-year-old. Who can trant right now? We still don't have a lot of information about this individual. We can give you a little bit more information about the victims, though. Ten dead, ten were injured. We can give you a little bit more information about the victims. So 10 dead, 10

were injured. We are told that seven remain hospitalized. Their age range, we're told it's 50s, 60s and beyond. And right now, the IDs of those individuals are still not being released as they continue to process that information. But guys, the big question is why? What motivated this individual to carry out such a deadly attack? This happened when the streets were clearing out for Lunar New Year celebrations. And I should point out that here in Monterey Park, it's a predominantly Asian community. Roughly 60 percent of the population is of Asian descent. And they host one of the largest Lunar New Year celebrations here in Southern California, obviously because of what happened

Saturday evening. The events on Sunday were canceled. NBC's Kathy Park, thank you very much for being on this morning. The mass shooting in Monterey Park, California, over the weekend is the deadliest in the U.S. since the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, last May, when 19 children and two teachers were killed. There have been at least 33 mass shootings in the U.S. so far this year, and it's still only January. That's according to the Gun Violence Archive, which defines a mass shooting as at least four people injured or killed. By that calculation, there were 648 mass shooting in the country last year. And even though that was down just slightly from 2021, that's nearly double the number recorded five years ago when there were 336. And according to Pew Research, gun murders in particular have climbed sharply in recent years. The 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968,

exceeding the previous peak in 1993. The 2020 total represented a 34 percent increase from the year before, a 49 percent increase over five years and 75 percent increase over 10 years. Major metropolitan areas also saw time in nearly 20 years. And suffice it to say, there are developed countries that don't have this problem, Joe. And yet we can't find agreement. Most. I mean, most. You look at the numbers and compare for developed countries, Western developed countries. Nobody comes close to the rate of the number of people killed per 100,000 per capita, as is the case here in America. I mean, these numbers, I mean, these numbers are unbelievable. And by the way, again, I don't have to tell anybody that watches the show regularly. I don't want to ban guns. I'm a gun guy. I have several guns. I'm comfortable around

guns. I've grown up in gun cultures. I've grown up in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida. I've grown up. I get it. I get it. But I don't get this. I don't get when murders by guns go up 50 percent in the past five years. Republicans want to do nothing about it. I don't get how when murders by guns go up 75 percent over the past 10 years, 75 percent over the past 10 years, Republicans want to do nothing about it. Now, why am I saying Republicans? Because I try not to point out, I'll say like a mag of Republicans or Trump. No, no. Here it's the Republican Party that other than the 10 senators that stepped in and actually tried to pass some meaningful, positive breakthroughs in in gun safety laws, the proliferation of guns continue. The shootings continue to explode.

And Mike, this is, of course, not about left-wing culture. This is not about banning guns, which is the false choice, the stupid choice that people are always given because that's the only way they can allow these companies continue to make the millions and millions of dollars and make manufacturing guns. They have to say they're coming to take all your guns. We know we just want some gun safety laws that allow universal background checks that stop crazy people from getting guns and stop people from under 21 from getting guns and

then going to schools and shooting them up. But this isn't about some left wing conspiracy. This is about data that points to a tragic epidemic of gun violence, gun murders specifically, that keeps exploding in this country. Again, Mike, gun violence has gone up 50 percent, according to Pew, over the past five years. Not violence. Did I say violence? Let me let me let me fix that. Murders from guns up 50 percent over the past five years, up 75 percent over the past 10 years. And you look at that number, about 19,500 people killed by guns last year. Guess what? Mike, that's like what? One, two, three. That's almost five times as many

people who were killed by gunfire in the United States of America last year than who died in the Iraq war. Let me say that again. More Americans died here at home than died fighting in the Iraq war. In fact, almost five times as many Americans died here last year than died from 2003 to 2010 fighting in the Iraq War. Joe, we've been here 15 years, 15 years of mornings when we've come in to go to work and talked about mass shootings. How many of them? Thousands, I would estimate. 15 years of doing this. 15 years of watching senseless murders on street corners, in dance halls, in schools, a lot of them in schools. 15 years worth. And so here we are with the refusal of many members of the Congress and many members of different state legislatures

to answer a simple question, a simple yes or no question. And the question would be, if you had the chance with a casting of your vote in your legislature, state or federal, if you had the chance to save a life by casting a vote, would you cast that vote? Yes or no? None of the stuff, they're coming to take your guns. Nobody's coming to take anyone's gun. No one. It's not in any piece of legislation I've ever, any sensible piece of legislation I've ever seen. And I think you'd probably agree with me. They refuse to answer the question. So it comes down to this. All of these mass murders, the root of it are clearly mental illness, criminality, other psychological disturbances, but cowardice as well, political cowardice at a lot of different levels in state houses and especially in the United States

Congress. Pure cowardice. And so we continue 15 years after we began here in Morning Joe announcing another mass murder, this time in California, and guaranteed either later this week or next week or whenever we'll be reporting another. Just think about this chilling statistic, Jonathan Lemire. Since the Sandy Hook shooting, when America was supposed to be awakened, since the Sandy Hook shooting, murders by guns have gone up 75 percent in America. This is a uniquely American story and a uniquely American tragedy. Mike is right. It is relentless, these headlines of mass shootings. And yes, let's give some credit. There was a modest gun proposal, bipartisan gun legislation that went through Congress last year. It was bipartisan in nature.

It barely scratched the surface. So much more would need to be done. It is a culture of, not just a culture of guns, but a culture of shootings. That is something that is a part of the American identity right now. And the location changes, the city changes, the circumstances of the shooting changes a little, but they all come back to the same thing, a weapon that can take many lives in a matter of seconds. And, you know, there was a heroes yesterday who presented further tragedy and let's salute them. But this is this is an all too familiar headline and one right now. There is no momentum for any sort of other gun legislation in the Congress. There will be more of these stories in the days ahead. Yeah. Despite the fact, Mika, that 90 percent of Americans want universal background checks.

And and again, I talk I keep talking about how Republicans keep losing the suburbs, how Republicans keep losing swing voters, how Republicans keep losing these elections because they're out of step. This is just this is just one more brick in the wall. It's adding up for that. It's one more brick in the wall, because, again, there are a lot of people that say, well, wait a second. Gun control is not popular. This isn't gun control.

This is about gun safety. And the world has changed when when when you have 75 percent more people getting killed by guns, killed by guns, responding to an epidemic than 10 years ago. This is an epidemic that's on the rise now. Republicans in the House, the NRA, others may want to deny that this epidemic continues to explode. The numbers are there and people feel it. They feel it in their neighborhoods. They feel it on the streets. They feel it in their neighborhoods. They feel it on the streets. They feel it in their schools. They feel it when they wake up and get their kids ready to go to school in the morning. They feel it. And at some point, Republicans are going to at some point it'll happen. At some point, Republicans are going to have to go along with the 90 percent of Americans who want universal background checks for far sweeping red flag laws and other basic gun safety measures to protect our children and to protect church goers, to protect people that go to country music festivals in Las Vegas from being gunned down.

Just like they're sitting targets. It's disgusting. We're going to turn now to the war in Ukraine, where there may have been a breakthrough in the delivery of tanks to the nation. Germany's foreign minister said yesterday her nation will not stand in the way if Poland decides to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. The foreign minister's comments follow a statement by the German defense minister that a decision as to whether Germany will supply tanks is forthcoming. Until now, Germany has linked the delivery of its Leopard tanks to whether the U.S. will provide its own Abrams 2 tanks. U.S. officials have pushed back against sending the tanks,

citing the challenges around maintenance and training. Poland's prime minister has said that if NATO and EU allies did not consent to Poland sending the tanks, the nation was prepared to build a smaller coalition of countries that would send them anyway. For Poland, let's bring right now former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Bill Taylor, and NBC chief international correspondent Keir Simmons. Keir, we'll start with you. What's the very latest? Well, Joe, I think we are at a pivot point over Ukraine, and I think it's really shaking

up the diplomatic picture. Imagine being the German chancellor right now. You're upping German defense spending to 2% of GDP, no longer relying so much on Russian energy, and you're sending massive military aid to Ukraine. Not enough, your critics say. Now they want you to send those battle tanks to Donbass, despite the bitter history of German tanks rolling toward the Russian border during World War Two. Germany is under pressure this morning, with the clock ticking. Its foreign minister, as you've mentioned overnight, suggesting it might agree to Poland

sending German tanks. And Berlin's hesitation over tanks has divided NATO again with America stuck in the middle. It's not simply about tanks. It's about strategy. Here's General Milley speaking Friday. From a military standpoint, I still maintain that for this year, it would be very, very difficult to militarily eject the Russian forces from every inch of Russian-occupied Ukraine. That doesn't mean it can't happen, doesn't mean it won't happen, but it'd be very, very difficult. The problem is, of course, if the chairman of the

Joint Chiefs is right that it's difficult for Ukraine to eject Russia this year, then when will it happen? Will it ever happen? By 2024, elections will be underway away there in the US, while Putin, of course, hopes he can outlast the American and European public. That's why a group of nine NATO countries from Estonia to the UK, Poland and the Netherlands are openly advocating equipping Ukraine to push Russia out of its territory. And speaking to me this morning on Apache Zoom connection, the Estonian defense minister warned Russia is preparing its own spring offensive. From different sources, we see that Russia is bringing more troops, more people to Ukraine. So they have more people at the moment in Ukraine as they had a year ago.

We see that they are bombing a lot more when you take like in six months perspective. And obviously they tried to exhaust Ukrainian air defence. And this is why they tried to prepare everything for the next big assault, big attack. You know, guys, everyone agrees that one day there will be negotiations. The disagreement is over the road to get there. Ukraine thinks German Leopard 2 tanks combined with air cover and artillery will help it win back its territory. Germany would love to see its tanks alongside those American Abram tanks for diplomatic cover. But Abrams, as you've mentioned, are trickier to run. And there are thousands of those German tanks here in Europe already.

Of course, no one knows whether NATO weapons will change the dynamic. Some think waiting for Russia to burn itself out is the best strategy, while others deeply pessimistic think sending more weapons to Ukraine now just increases the bloodshed. It all comes down to some basic questions. Can Ukraine win? What does winning look like and how long will it take? While some in Western governments warn that if President Putin is left with Ukrainian land, his aggression and nuclear threats will be vindicated with terrible international implications. Joe, Mika. All right. Thanks so much, Keir Simmons. Greatly appreciate your report. Thank you, Keir Simmons. Greatly appreciate your report. Thank you, Keir. Seems like there's no question here.

I mean, if Russia is allowed to just take over parts of Ukraine, we're back where we were after all of this effort. Well, and you're exactly right. And let's bring in Ambassador Taylor. I guess it seems very simple as a TV news host to tell the German defense minister and the Secretary of Defense of the United States what to do. But the Russians, Putin's not going to go to the negotiating table unless he's on his back heels. He's not going to go to the negotiating table from a position of strength. I mean, we understand the dangers. When Putin thinks this is an existential threat to him and it's an existential threat to Russia, then very bad things happen. But pushing Russian troops out of Ukrainian territory, that's not an existential threat for Russia. And it seems right now we're just not doing quite enough, not sending the right equipment to get the Russians in retreat toward their own border. Joe, they are in retreat toward their own border right now,

as they have been for the past several months. And what we saw last week and what we're seeing today is a coming together, a continued coming together of the NATO allies and others, by the way. It's more than just NATO who's meeting in Ramstein. The international support and the weapons that they're providing have been unprecedented. And just the Americans last week, 500 armored vehicles, not yet the Abrams. You're right, Joe. The Abrams are not there yet. But the armored vehicles that the weapons that are going into Ukraine from the NATO allies will enable the Ukrainians to push the Russians back out of the country, at least back to the area that that that back out of Donbass. They'll push them out of Donbass. Crimea is difficult, but they've talked also about negotiating. As you said, there are options for peace and negotiations will come. But when they when the Ukrainians have

pushed the Russians back out of the country, out of Donbass, then they can sit down and have that conversation. That's the option for peace. So, Mr. Ambassador, you're suggesting that the Ukrainians already have the equipment that they need or they're getting the equipment soon that they're going to need to push the Russians back to where they were before the invasion began? I'm suggesting that the commitment from last week and the continued commitments that we're seeing even today will give the Ukrainians what they need. We need to maintain that support. If we maintain that support, the Ukrainians will win. The Ukrainians will win this war. They will push the Russians out of their country and negotiate the Russians out of Crimea.

And that will be the end of this war. That's how this war ends. That's the option for peace. So, Mr. Ambassador, let's talk about Crimea. You said it would be more difficult. There have been noises from Kiev that they won't really set down for negotiations until they get Crimea back, too. How is that divide going to be bridged? If they can get the Russians out elsewhere, there's going to be a lot of pressure from the rest of the world to settle for peace. So, Jonathan, that's right. What the Ukrainians have said and what they believe and what I believe is actually the case is that they will never cede any Ukrainian territory to the Russians, including Crimea. They will never give it up.

That said, they've also said, and the president has said, President Zelensky has said, and the foreign minister has said, Kuleba, that part of that's going to happen by pushing them out militarily. And that's going to happen by pushing them out militarily. And that's what we've just been talking about. And an offensive that the Ukrainians can mount this spring to preempt any advance from the Russians, that offensive can push the Russians out of most of Ukrainian territory. Crimea, as you say, Jonathan, is difficult. But Kuleba has said that while they'll push militarily out, they'll also use diplomatic means to recover that territory. And I suspect that means Crimea. Former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Bill Taylor. Thank you. Good to see you again. We appreciate your being on this morning and still ahead on Morning Joe.

The Justice Department found more classified items during a search of President Biden's Delaware home on Friday. We'll talk to a spokesperson for the White House Counsel's Office about that. Plus, Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren is our guest this morning. She's out with a new piece criticizing Republicans for running what she calls a con game when it comes to the debt ceiling. Also ahead, President Biden's chief of staff, Ron Klain, is expected to step down in the coming weeks. What we're learning this morning about his potential replacement and a look at the morning papers, including the new effort by Republicans in one state to get Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to run for president.

You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. People leave to be seen. You could have flown away, a singing bird. Like you're running. I suspect you're running. I don't know for sure. But if you want to make your announcement now, I think a lot of people would be happy. Are you thinking about it as fun as it would be to announce right now? Yes, we are. I just got rejected. Go ahead. We are leaning in. I mean, look, it is time for a new generation. It is time for more leadership. It is time for the

fact that we really start to take our country back. We cannot have another term of Joe Biden. And we have to remember, too, we have lost the last seven out of eight popular votes for president. It is time that we get a Republican in there that can lead and that can win a general election. All righty. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley continues to hint at a 2024 presidential run. Her candidacy could pit her against the only declared candidate so far. That would be Donald Trump, whose administration she served in as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. And as for Trump, his first rally for his 2024 campaign is coming up this weekend in South Carolina. This should be very interesting.

His team's having a hard time getting big names in the state to endorse him. As The Washington Post reports, it's because many lawmakers, political operatives, and even previous supporters are not ready to pick a candidate. Two South Carolina natives, former Governor Nikki Haley and Republican Senator Tim Scott, are both said to be seriously considering a bid, with Haley expected to announce her campaign in the coming weeks. Another issue for Trump's campaign, he's losing some support within the evangelical community. Big surprise. The leader of an influential evangelical group told the Post many had been turned off by his recent comments, questioning the loyalty. Are you guys turned off by you guys are finally

insulted? I mean, he's saying things about you. Recent comments. Where have you been for six years? You're offended by his recent comments. The evangelical community, which is completely hung out to dry by Donald Trump, is now waiting to see who gets into the race before they decide who to back. That is beautiful. To quote Judy Collins, don't you love farce? Seriously. Joining us now, Washington bureau chief for USA Today, Susan Page, and founder of the conservative website, The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes, joins us this morning. Charlie, I think what's fascinating is that obviously two years ago, everybody had been afraid to get out and endorse Donald Trump. It's not that they won at the end anyway. But what we're seeing is a little more predictable,

a little more traditional. If you have two big political figures from a home state like South Carolina, others are going to be afraid to cross them to support Donald Trump. That would have never happened two years ago. But at least for now, a little bit of normalcy is returning to just basic power politics in the party. Well, I'm sure that Nikki Haley is going to nail down the two percent of the vote in the Republican primaries as soon as she gets into this race. I'm not exactly sure what her theory of the case is, but you're right. I mean, there's there's there's good news and there's bad news. I mean, the good news is that Donald Trump has not cleared the field at all. None of these other Republican candidates looked at his announcement and said, OK,

we have to stand aside for the orange God King. They did not do that. They obviously think that he is vulnerable. That's that I think is the good news. The bad news is that if there is a crowded field, Donald Trump will still have a tremendous edge. Donald Trump gets this nomination, gets his nomination with 30 percent or 40 percent of the vote if we have a replay of 2015 and 2016. So it is going to be interesting to see how crowded this field is and how reluctant any of these candidates are to back out, either to clear the way for Donald Trump or a non-Trump candidate like Ron DeSantis. But I mean, Nikki Haley, I mean, has anybody been more back and forth on Donald Trump than Nikki Haley? She's in,

she's out, she's in, she's, I'm done with him. I'm sorry. I apologize. Not exactly a great resume for someone to say, you know, I am a strong and decisive leader. So, yes, Nikki Haley seems to flip flop on Donald Trump. You can't really tell where she stands or if she's going to hold her position. Susan Page, do you think the evangelical community has finally found religion on Donald Trump? SUSAN PAGE, Former U.S. President and CEO, Well, it's possible. But you know, you could argue that Donald Trump has given them what they most wanted, which was a Supreme Court that would overturn Roe v. Wade. And he will always deserve, in their view, credit for that.

But he was never a natural cultural fit with the evangelical community. You know, that would—Ronda Santas, Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, all of them are kind of a more natural fit in terms of their, you know, lifestyle and life views and culture. So we'll see. But the evangelicals, I think, can argue that it's a new day because they got the thing that they had worked for for decades and they have that in their pocket now. This is true. And, you know, it's true. It's interesting, again, because Trump lost in 17, Trump Republicans lost in 17, 18, 19, 20 and 22. But by the end of Joe Biden's first term, Joe Biden will have appointed more federal judges

than any other president in U.S. history. So it's short-lived is what you're saying. Well, and what I'm saying also, evangelicals are going to be looking at that and saying, do we really want eight years of democratically appointed federal judges? Because if we get Donald Trump, we're going to completely lose the court. Right. And the pendulum will go to extremes. Then it just keeps swinging

back and forth in elections. Charlie and Susan, stay with us. Up next, we want to show the viewers how Donald Trump conducted himself at a funeral of one of his supporters over the weekend. Jonathan O'Meara, can you still say that something that Donald Trump did was bizarre? Are you just repeating yourself there? That funeral, we're going to talk about a second, man. That was whacked out, right? We can use whacked out, which was not on my bingo card this morning, but whacked out works. I don't know if we can ever say that we're shocked by his behavior, but I think it's the first time we've seen it at a funeral. So at least it's a new setting. There you go.

Yeah. I mean, making this woman's tragic death about himself. It's just unbelievable. Not unbelievable from him. Yeah. Also, it had GOP hardliners in the House are making things difficult for Republicans in swing districts ahead of the 2024 election. And the Republicans in those swing districts are making it hard on the hardliners. We've got a GOP war over immigration where the hardliners thought they were going to have their way. We'll get a live report from Capitol Hill, plus the latest on the unrest in Atlanta. Demonstrations turning violent over the weekend in the wake of the death of an activist killed by police last week after officials said the person shot a Georgia state trooper. Morning Joe will be right back.

Our former President Trump spoke at a memorial service for Lynette Hardaway on Saturday. Hardaway was better known as Diamond from the popular pro-Trump conservative duo Diamond and Silk. At one point in his remarks, Trump claimed he didn't know Silk at all, despite her saying in her introduction of him how great Trump treated them both. President Trump, I just want to say thank you so much for believing in Diamond and Silk. He treated us just like Laura. He treated us just like the other children, Eric, Don Jr., Tiffany. He treated us just like when we came around, when Diamond and Silk came around, it was like we was part of the family. You know, the world has lost one of its brightest stars, real star. But I see that

we have another star who is equal to, but she stepped up and she is different. I'm serious. I thought I knew them both. I didn't. I knew I knew Diamond, but I didn't know Silk at all. I just learned about Silk. You're fantastic. What? Oh, my God. How does he say that? That's just not even. He also went. He was very. That's just not even true. That's not close to being true.

He complained. He started complaining and turned this memorial service into a campaign speech railing against Democrats and promoting the big lie and complaining that he was just there way too long. It's just gross. It is kind of gross. How do you have open borders where millions and millions of people are being let into our country and taking so much away from our country so hard to fix that? You know, things we can fix inflation. We can fix so much of what's been damaged over the last two years. They allowed their prisons to be emptied out into the United

States of America. They allowed their mental institutions to be emptied out. Inflation was caused by energy. They stopped the energy. And all of a sudden, your gasoline went from a dollar eighty seven a gallon. Yeah, I think we can do that. Okay, without actually having to see it, he also complained about how long the funeral was. And that he was only supposed to be there for 15 minutes, but it lasted so much longer that he was stuck there. And he was talking himself a very, very long time. So, Charlie, I don't know where to begin. I mean, you know. Mr. Republican presidential candidate.

Just beyond bizarre, beyond rude, beyond anything that anyone would see in normal, polite, let me say decent society. And this is a guy that a lot of people want to be the next president of the United States again. Again. And so on brand for him, too. Look, this is what happens when you have a narcissistic sociopath asked to give a homily at a funeral. It won't go well. I mean, Donald Trump has one subject. He has only one thing that he wants to talk about. And his and his and his the the crass indifference is just so burned in that he's not even aware of the fact that that he, you know, is talking about other people that he they've never met Silk. I mean, of course, it's rude.

But this is this is Donald. This is Donald Trump. And he's not going to change. But to your point, I continue to be amazed as you are. Well, that's the interesting thing is, you know, I always try to imagine the people who are watching this and going, yes, I want that man to be a role model for my children. I want that man to be the symbol of America. I want that man to have his finger on the nuclear button again. I mean, this has baffled me for for six years. What is interesting is that is that as we get closer to twenty twenty four, Trump's behavior is, if anything, more erratic. Remember, Joe, that there were people who, you know, talk themselves into believing, well, if he becomes president, he'll become more normal or, you know, he will he will become presidential. He will he

will grow into the job. It's exactly opposite. And it appears to be accelerating. But again, as shocking as it is, no one should be surprised that Donald Trump goes to somebody's funeral, says he doesn't know the closest friend and then talks about himself the whole time because, well, he's Donald Trump. Susan Page, I don't know about you, but I've never been to a wake or a funeral service where someone begins by asking me if I can believe what the cost of high test costs at the gas station. But the thing that is interesting, and Charlie just referenced it, is after all of this time and all of this verbiage that we get from this man, there are still people in the United States of America who would look at that and be surprised at his behavior. That's incredible to me. But, you know, as Charlie just said, Donald Trump has not changed. Donald Trump today is not saying the things that make our jaws drop, just as he did starting in 2015. And the question is, I think, is whether the audience has changed,

the audience that has supported him and who elected him president one time and voted for him in the millions a second time. Do they perceive this differently? Are they tired of it? Is there Trump fatigue? And will they embrace some of the alternatives who are so eager to challenge him in these primaries? And I actually think we don't really know that there are definitely signs that a lot of Republicans or some Republicans who

supported Trump would like to have Trump policies without Trump the person. But we're going to have to, I think, go to the primaries to find out if just the degree to which that is cut. I went to an event this weekend. Miki, you were at it, too. Yes. And a very well-educated, very well-connected guy said, I like Trump's policies. I'll vote for him again, even though, you know, he's he's a little crazy at times. And I think I'm thinking at times, at times, he led an insurrection against the United States government. And you like his positions on quantitative easing. It's just bizarre. But but they're all out there.

And the thing is, they're not tired of Donald Trump's behavior. They're not exhausted by Donald Trump's behavior. They're only worried that Donald Trump may lose because they don't know if you know it or not. But Donald Trump lost in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and 22. And they don't want him insulting somebody awake and turning awake into a list of grievances for, you know, a triggered snowflake. They don't care. They care about winning. And if Donald Trump can win for him, they would still be behind him. He can't win. He just keeps losing general elections. So I think that's the only thing that exhausts them.

Susan Page and Charlie Sykes, thank you both very much for being on this morning. We appreciate it.