Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/27/25

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Trump says he wants to 'clean out' Gaza and move Palestinians to Jordan, Egypt

The inauguration was a tremendous success. It was inside due to cold and fear. But we had a lot of surprise guests like Melania. That was nice. Melania showed up to my inauguration dressed like, frankly, Kang Lao from Mortal Kombat. And you know, I had to put my nerd herd in the front row. Broligarts before holigarts.

Also have to ensure that all of my cabinet positions are filled. And you know I had to put my nerd herd in the front row. Brolegarts before hologarts. Also have to ensure that all of my cabinet positions are filled. We're filling my cabinet with some of the best people. They're all very good except for most of them. It's been a great week. I basically hit all my campaign promises except for the one people cared about, price of eggs.

All time high, who would have thought it'd be easier to get a ceasefire in Gaza than bring down the price of eggs. All time high, who would have thought it'd be easier to get a ceasefire in Gaza than bring down the price of eggs? Might have to take the L on that one. You know, we're looking into some fabulous alternative egg options such as seagull or perhaps catberry. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, January 27th.

We have so much to get to, including the hundreds of ICE arrests across the country this weekend. As the Trump administration starts carrying out the president's promise to deport millions of undocumented migrants, it comes as President Trump had a brief tariff standoff with the president of Columbia. We'll explain what happened there. Meanwhile, President Trump on Friday fired nearly 20 inspectors general from the federal government. We'll look at whether the move was legal.

Also, almost all foreign aid from the United States is on hold this morning. A pause. We'll dig into that executive order and when the assistants could start up again. Also ahead, we'll have the latest from Israel following the release of four more hostages over the weekend. And we'll also look ahead to another busy week on Capitol Hill as more of Trump's cabinet picks will have their confirmation hearings. And the Super Bowl matchup is set. It's a rematch of the big game from two years ago.

Pablo Torre will join us to recap championship weekend in the NFL playoffs. With us, we have the co-host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire, President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haas. He's author of the weekly newsletter, Home and Away, available on Substack. And managing editor at the Bulwark, Sam Stein did a little way too early for us this morning. Appreciate that.

So, Joe, well, I'm just sad about the commanders. Why? They had a great season. Well, I will tell you, there's a lot of Americans not really happy about the chiefs either. So let me ask you, Jonathan O'Meara, I was doing my regular afternoon routine after coming back from the orphanage and swimming 12 miles and running my marathon. I sat down and had my barley juice or whatever healthy people sit down watching. I was watching PTI. And they were on Friday, Kornheisen-Wilbond were debating whether the Chiefs had reached the damned Yankees status yet,

whether they are that hateable of a team. I don't think they've won enough. And Kornheisen-Wilbond both said, we just don't know that many players on there. They're not that hateable. They like them on the state farm. And I don't know. I think they're getting there. John, I think they're getting there. I've had enough of the Chiefs.

And I grew up loving the Chiefs. Lynn Dawson, Hank Scram, I loved them all. I've had enough by now, John. I've had enough. Yeah, they're already there, think this is I think this is the year where America kind of reaches tipping point the chiefs and we do this to be true once we can respect the chiefs and he reads a great coach Patrick Holmes the best

quarterback in the league they keep finding ways to win especially these one score games. But the homes and every other commercial on television Travis Kelsey who's had a great careers sort of a shell of himself at this point he of course is also over overexposed and yes a lot Taylor Swift fans who've latched onto the chiefs but a lot of America might be tired that for not to that nothing like that and not that is that.

A little bit of mitigating factor here is only thing that stops them from being the damn the Yankees but they go ahead they keep winning. I think there's a fatigue that set in just like happened to the Patriots and years ago during the Brady Belichick era but there's also rightly the concerns about the officiating where it seems like the chiefs get every single big call and again last night it happened several times and happened on

on a on a key drive. Once again clearly the the thes botched it. You had Josh Allen on a fourth and one clearly make it over the first down line. And you had the worst mark. A guy running in, the guy at the top of the screen had it. Guy who had come in the bottom clearly moved the ball back a half yard. Once again, you had the announcers inside saying, in the booth saying, he clearly made it. Yeah, we're seeing it here.

The referee at the top of your screen, clear, as you just said, clearly marks this first down. First down. Yeah, and this was on a critical drive. There he is, makes his first down, and the refs, it's almost like they aren't even listening to what people like Don Van Natt and others have been saying about him.

This is how the guy at the bottom of the screen over, here comes the guy at the top of the screen. He's got the mark right. And this is on one of the critical drives, but it is what it is. The refs afterwards, it was kind of moving when Patrick Mahomes and the ref at the bottom of the screen exchanged jerseys that kind of started to tear up. We'll talk about that more when Pablo comes. I want to let's

let's get serious here very very quickly here's a quick turn let's just look at the front pages of the papers of the New York Times talking about the two big stories, both about Israel, one, the attacks yesterday and the very fragile peace treaty, if you can call it that, actually ceasefire. And also the vague but chilling statement that Gaza should be, quote, cleaned out. Also down below, great story on how Kobe's image all over LA with art on

the wall. But here, the Wall Street, yeah, okay, we're dueling Wall Street Journal. Let's hold that up. So Richard, look at the headlines here, obviously. Proposals to vacate Gaza stuns all sides, scrambles diplomacy. I would be shocked if we go there. I think it's just one of those things, it grabs headlines, but I find it very hard to believe that Saudi Arabia,

the UAE, Jordan, Egypt, all of our Sunni Arab allies in the Middle East would go along with a cleaning out of where the Palestinian homeland one day should be. Well, Joe, nobody in the Arab world, where the Palestinian homeland one day should be. Well, Joe, nobody in the Arab world, beginning with the Palestinians, but also the two countries that established peace with Israel first, Egypt and Jordan, both of them opposed this vehemently.

Jordan's already 60 to 70% Palestinian. They would worry that any transfer of Palestinian populations would destabilize the monarchy in the country. Egypt lives on a knife edge because of its enormous population and its poverty. This just wouldn't be acceptable. No Palestinian would want it. The people who are celebrating here are the far right in Israel, these ministers who have been part of Bibi Netanyahu's government for most of the last few years, and the settler movement, because this is what they want. They want to see what's known as transfer, the pushing out of Palestinians,

and therefore making Gaza, and even more important to them, the West Bank, what they call Judea and Samaria, open to Israeli settlement, to ultimately annexation. So I think this is a non-starter joke. What's interesting to me is where did this come from? What does it tell us about the policy process of the new president than an idea that is so, I think, so much a non-starter and so potentially inconsistent with stability and peace in the region? Where did this come from? Why was it being surfaced the way it was? And that's what I'd like to hear a little bit more about. It's interesting because Joe it's interesting because I was talking to

somebody who ultimately ended up becoming a member of the cabinet and he says a lot of the concepts are opening bids. Don't really know where this stands in that but let's go live to Tel Aviv. We'll switch up our rundown this morning. NBC News international correspondent R Raf Sanchez. Raf, what more do we know about this? Well, Mika, this has been a dramatic and emotional weekend here in the Middle East, starting with those comments by President Trump made to reporters on Air Force One,

suggesting that 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza, that is three quarters of the population, be moved so that the strip can be, in his words, cleaned out. As he said, suggesting that they go to Egypt and Jordan, immediate and very firm rejections by those two Arab allies of the United States, saying as far as they are concerned, that is a total non-starter. Now over the weekend here, those four young Israeli soldiers released from Hamas captivity after 477 days, very emotional scenes as they were freed from Gaza,

they were reunited with their families. We actually sat with the family of one of those soldiers, Liri Al Bag, she's second from the left in that photo. And we watched with them in real time, this sort of surreal Hamas spectacle. Those four soldiers marched on stage in costume uniforms in front of the cameras, and then released into the hands of the Red Cross

and handed back over to Israeli forces. Now, that all played out very much in public. What was going on in private over the weekend were absolute crisis talks because this ceasefire was under real stray and Hamas had not released an Israeli civilian called Arbel Yehud, who Israel says under the terms of the agreement should have been released ahead of those four soldiers. In response, Israel refusing to allow Palestinian civilians to return to their homes in northern Gaza.

But a deal was brokered. And this week we are expecting not just the three hostages who were scheduled to come out, but six hostages in total. So our Belyehud will come out on Thursday along with two others and then those three additional hostages will come out on Saturday. And Mika, that is raising hopes that we may finally see American hostage, Keith Siegel, a 65-year-old grandfather released from Hamas captivity sometime this week. You might remember he was taken along with his wife.

His wife was released in the first stage of the deal. And he has been in Gaza for 15 months now. As well as those two hostage releases, we are expecting President Trump's envoy to the Middle East, Steve Wittkopf, to make his first trip here since the Trump administration took office. This is a man who was deeply involved

in brokering that deal in Qatar. And Witkoff is saying that he is not only going to visit Israel, do the meetings with Prime Minister Netanyahu that you would expect, but that he is also thinking about going into Gaza himself. Ceasefire obviously on, but this is still a dangerous part of the world. So that would be a first for a senior U.S. official. All right, NBC's Raf Sanchez, thank you so much. We greatly appreciate your reporting. And Mika, you brought up before about talking to a cabinet member in the Trump

administration. We've also seen Jamie Dimon and other people just talk when they talk about, for instance, tariffs. Most see it as an opening bid. And there and there have been many people around Donald Trump that say it's the opening bid. In fact, Donald Trump reportedly told the Senate, Senate Republicans last weekend that he doesn't want to quote tax people, he doesn't want to put the tariffs on people, but he will if he has to. But he also suggested to the Senate Republicans that these are opening bids. We see that in the Middle East. Of course, it's a non-starter in the Middle East if you look at Saudi Arabia and all the

things that they want to do by extending the Abraham Accords. That cannot be done if Gaza is, quote, cleared out. They know that. But also fascinating what happened overnight regarding tariffs and Colombia. Again, we saw the opening bid. Right. And then we saw the negotiations there. And it's fascinating.

I think we're going to see this with a lot more countries, the use of tariffs as a, quote, opening bid in negotiations. And of course, tariffs can go both ways. The Trump administration says Colombia has agreed to accept deportation flights after a standoff over tariffs. The saga started yesterday when Colombia denied entry to two United States military planes carrying about 80 Colombian migrants each. Colombia's president accused the U.S. of treating the Colombian migrants like criminals and called for dignified treatment

before his country would receive them. In response, President Trump announced sweeping retaliatory measures against Colombia, including 25 percent tariffs and visa sanctions. The Colombian president then responded by announcing 25 percent tariffs on American imports. He also threatened to stop exporting goods to the United States. But late last night, the Trump administration backed off the trade threats after Colombia said it would accept deportation flights. Meanwhile, federal agents ramped up immigration enforcement operations over the weekend.

ICE reported 956 arrests made in total yesterday. That is the largest number of arrests in a single day by the Trump administration to date. The operations targeted several cities across the country with federal law enforcement agencies and multiple communities posting about assisting with immigration efforts. In Denver, the DEA says it targeted members of the Tren de Ragua Venezuelan gang. In Chicago, ICE carried out what it called enhanced targeted operations. Trump Borders R. Tom Homan was there to oversee the effort. Since President Trump was inaugurated last Monday,

ICE has made at least 2,681 arrests. Let's go live to Chicago and NBC News senior White House correspondent, Gabe Gutierrez. Gabe, you spoke to Trump border czar, Tom Holman, yesterday as the immigration roundups were taking place. What did he tell you? Hi there, Mika. Good morning.

Well, no surprise. He said it was a successful operation. And over the last few days, we have seen this ramped up enforcement effort really across the country, but also the Trump administration really wanting to publicize this. I guess no surprise before, during the Biden administration, we did not get a daily tally of how many arrests ICE had made nationwide. Now we are getting it each day.

As you mentioned, nearly a thousand arrests yesterday and more than 2,600 since President Trump took office. Now, Chicago, of course, this is the city where Tom Homan had previously said would be ground zero for mass deportations. It's again, no surprise that he's here, just several days after President Trump taking office. And at one point he got into a feud with local officials who may have threatened to perhaps impede ICE agents,

although they've since backed off of that and said that they don't plan to get in the way of any ICE agents. But Tom Homan said, has repeatedly said, that he would prosecute local officials here or anywhere else if they got in the way. The Chicago is a sanctuary city. You know, it's a, what I say, a target-rich environment. We know a lot of illegal aliens live here.

We know we don't have access to Cook County Jail, one of the biggest jails in the country. And I'll say it again. If the politicians, the mayor and the governor would just simply work with us and let us in that jail, the rest of the bad guy in the jail is safer for the officer, is safer for the alien, is safer for the community. I don't get it. Do you plan under certain circumstances to go into churches and schools at some point? I would never say never. If there's a national security threat that we know is in a certain

place on a college campus, well, we're going to get that national security never. If there's a national security threat that we know is in a certain place on a college campus, well, we're going to get that national security threat. If he's a significant public safety threat that's in what we used to call a sensitive location, no, we're going to enforce the law. And that policy is different from the Biden administration. Mika, of course, ICE now allowing its agents to go into those sensitive locations like schools and churches. But Mika, I should also point out the Trump administration has sometimes made it seem

as if they're beginning this deportation process from scratch. But we should point out that during the Biden administration, especially during the last year, they had ramped up deportations and ICE made arrests nationwide, really throughout the Biden administration. We went on one of their operations just last month. The difference is now the numbers in the last several days, at least in the latter half of last week, do seem significantly higher. It'll be interesting to see if this is sustained in the coming weeks and months ahead. Tom Homan says that he needs more funding from Congress

in order to keep ramping up these mass deportation plans. Speaking. Good morning, Gabe. It's Jonathan. Good context there. We know that the Biden numbers also, the Biden administration also did some of these raids.

Talk to us a little more about just the jump here from the Trump team, but also what do they hope to do next? Because that's always been the tension point. They said the first wave would be criminals, people who committed violent crimes. We've also heard rhetoric from those in the administration, including Stephen Miller,

who was the architect of this whole program, that suggests that eventually the targets will be people whose only crimes were to enter the United States illegally. Yeah, and look, if you talk to Tom Homan, he says that no one should be in this country illegally. And I asked him yesterday, were there collateral arrests yesterday? What collateral arrest means is essentially when these ICE agents go on one of these operations and they are searching for an immigrant with a criminal record. In the process of that, they may run across other immigrants who don't have violent records.

During previous administrations, the Biden administration specifically, collateral arrests didn't happen quite so often, but now the Trump administration is saying that there will be collateral arrests. The question is just how many, and Jonathan, as you point out, what about the detention beds? Is there enough detention space in this country? Tom Homan has repeatedly said there isn't right now. There are about 40000 beds or so nationwide. He wants to have more than 100000.

Of course, that requires a lot of funding from Congress. ICE is already facing a 230 million million budget shortfall. But what is different here is not only the increased rhetoric, the increased publicizing of these numbers but also what Tom Homan said to me is the biggest difference is now the partnership from other federal agencies. As part of the operation yesterday, it wasn't just ICE. There was, as you mentioned, the DEA, ATF, US Marshals Office is involved in some of these, and also the DOD now using those military aircraft to deport some of these immigrants around the world.

Jonathan? So, Gabe, I'm sure, Joe here, Gabe, I'm sure some Americans listening to what Tom Holman was telling you would ask themselves why wouldn't Chicago officials allow law enforcement officers to go into prisons and get illegal immigrants with violent criminal records and send them back to their home countries? Do you have any insight on if that is happening, why that is happening, what the justification is of Chicago or Illinois officials? It's actually very interesting, Joe, and Governor JB Pritzker yesterday.

We have seen a sort of a little bit of a change in the rhetoric with some Democratic officials here. They've backed off some of their tough talk against the Trump administration, making that exact point that they agree that immigrants with criminal records should be deported. But some of the further left politicians, not just in this city, but others, they say they don't want to cooperate with ICE at all. With the question of jails, Joe, there's a program called the 287-G program and that's something that is already in place. It has been for years and certain sheriff's departments and other law enforcement agencies locally take part in it. It allows local law enforcement to partner

with ICE and essentially deputize those local officials to help enforce immigration law inside jails. Stephen Miller and the Trump administration have said that they plant their ramp up that program specifically. And it will again be interesting to see how many of local officials essentially agree to that and try to get some of the more violent criminals out of here because they realized politically that is something that this country voted for. Donald Trump ran on immigration and many of his voters can say that they want those violent

criminals out of there. And as Jonathan mentioned though, the question will be how many collateral arrests will there be moving forward? Will there be the detention bed space for that? And how soon before the Trump administration moves in that direction? Joe, Mika and Jonathan. All right. NBC News.

Senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez, thank you. And when we come back, Richard, we're going to get your take on this, on the tariffs and other world events as well. Still ahead on Morning Joe, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham breaks with President Trump, calling his January 6th pardons a mistake. We'll show you those new remarks and speak with two former federal prosecutors who worked on several January 6th cases.

Plus, a brazen robbery in Europe as thieves use explosives to break into a museum and steal ancient artifacts. We'll go over what happened there and what investigators are saying. Also ahead, a big announcement regarding Forbes and Know Your Value, our 50 over 50 list. We're going to take a look at some of the trailblazers who are shipping everything from cyber security to science and even traffic safety, all that. And Pablo Torre on the Super Bowl matchup, Morning Joe, beautiful shot of the Capitol. You know, since John Meacham's not here this morning, I have to reach back and get...

Well, this isn't so abstract of a historical reference, but today in 1838, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address to the Young Men's Lyceum, a debating society in Springfield. It was in wake of a growing mob violence, including the killing of abolitionists by pro-slavery mobsters. I was reading on Heather Cox Richardson's newsletter yesterday, the entire speech, because we've heard parts of the speech, but I didn't realize that Lincoln was only 28 when he did the Lyceum speech. And it was on defending the political institutions of America. And in that speech, Lincoln said this, At what point shall we expect the approach of danger?

By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined with all the treasure of Earth, our own accepted, in their military chests with a bone apart for a commander could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. I've always loved that line in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected?

I answer, if it ever reach us, it must bring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad if destruction be our lot. We must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all time or die by suicide." And you know, Richard, again, just so timely, when we hear people talking about Civil War, the movie's out talking about Civil War, you have an America that's divided in two camps politically. And I must say, politically, because I know a lot of people who voted for both candidates, and I know you do as well. And we seem to manage away from social media or away from cable news or these other places in business settings and social settings. That does happen.

But there is more of a division over the last 10, 15 years, I think in large part because of the media ecosystem that we live in. So Lincoln's words today on the anniversary of his speech on January 27, 1838, ring true. We must stand together. He also, of course, later would say a house divided against itself cannot stand. The line of destruction be our lot. The real threat to the integrity of this country, to the fabric of America, is not going to come from abroad. From now, you'd say the Chinas, the Russians, the North Koreas, or anybody else, it's from

within. And all the trends are with political scientists, Joe, called sorting, S-O-R-T-I-N-G. You know that red America is getting more red, blue America is getting more blue, and there's less and less interaction between the two. It's one of the reasons that people like me are so intent on bringing back things like greater national or public service to bring Americans together who are living in these ideological and informational silos, which is the reason that people like me are so intent on getting civics in our classrooms, to remind Americans about what the ideas were that led

to the formation of this country. But Lincoln's words, they echo powerfully. They resonate powerfully today. They really do. I totally agree with you, Richard. We need to strengthen our institutions, respect and strengthen our institutions. We of course need to respect the rule of law because as people always told me on the campaign trail and reminded me, we are not a government of men,

we are a government of laws that have to be respected. And finally, to Richard's point, we need a well-informed electorate, as I think Jefferson said. And so I agree. I think, you know, we have all these requirements in school. We really need to teach history. Every school needs to teach history.

But some of the best schools in America don't require their students to even scratch the surface of American history, world history. So civics, yes. I also, man, I know it's really unpopular, but wouldn't it be something if after high school, we looked at a year of national service, something that would actually bring Americans together, bring young Americans together to understand, to build that community for the strength of America and understand that we have so much more in common than we don't. So we'll see. But anyway, thanks to Heather Cox Richardson. She just always not, you know,

I don't want John Meacham to get jealous, but she just, she has great, great insights, great historical insights, and this certainly was timely. That was good, Joe. But you're no John Meacham, so we'll move on now. No, that was good. We'll have, see what Meacham would do is he would talk about the speech Lincoln gave to the local Springfield Kiwanis Club three weeks later. Yeah, on the water buffalo.

But anyway, we'll talk to him about that tomorrow. Okay, so time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. The Central Intelligence Agency is now saying COVID-19 was likely leaked from a Chinese lab before it became a global pandemic. That's according to a statement the agency released on Saturday pointing the finger at China but also acknowledging the CIA has quote low confidence in its own conclusion. A source tells NBC News the review was ordered and completed in the final weeks of the Biden administration and then was declassified by the Trump administration.

This seems still a little fuzzy, Joe. Well, it sounds a little fuzzy because it still is a little fuzzy, Sam Stein. Correct. So the CIA during the Biden administration, kept going back and forth. Again, they have, quote, low confidence in this, but they also had a low confidence in coming out and saying that it happened some other way. Bill Burns, the CIA director, as The New York Times reported, as they got near the end of Biden's administration, he said, I don't know if Bill Burns ever said,

dude, but if he lived in northwest Florida, he would have, he basically said, dude, pick a side. The CIA needs an official side. The evidence is not overwhelmingly compelling on either side, but we can't just sit in the middle. So they have picked a side which certainly aligns with the new CIA director. Not shocked, not stunned that that's the side they picked. Yeah, this is one of those things that's been relitigated a nauseam at this point. The scientific consensus is a little bit more towards the animal to human jump than what the CIA has concluded.

But obviously, there's a lot of debate over the origins of this virus. It matters materially, obviously, because if this was a lab leak, that can affect both what we do diplomatically, but also our world health institutions and how they approach the Chinese. But ultimately, we're four or five years now past when this happened.

We need some clarity. I'd like to get some more clarity on it, but it seems like we're at this place where we're just going to keep debating the origins of it, and that's unfortunate. Yeah. I mean, you know, the thing is, Mika, there is one thing we do know. We don't know if it's a lab leak. We don't know if it happened in a wet market.

One thing we do know is that the Chinese kept the Trump administration out. They're like, Matt Pottinger was trying desperately to get in, to get the answers early on, and China would not let him in. I mean, you know, this hit America. We really were aware of it. And in March of 2020, in December of 2019, he was like ringing the alarm bell, trying to get the Chinese to give us information.

They stonewalled. And so here we are five years later still asking questions that the Chinese could have let us get in early 2020 at the very, very latest. OK. I don't think it's that much of a mystery. Sorry, folks. You know, the law of parsimony, Occam's razor, this is a unique laboratory. The idea that the disease broke out in Wuhan, that'd be one hell of a coincidence.

The reason it's still at all fuzzy is the Chinese essentially have eradicated any evidence, have made it impossible for any of the people working at the lab to speak. But I think it's, I am comfortable with the conclusion. The only reason it's low confidence is because there's not sufficient evidence anymore. We're never going to get it. The Chinese are worried about being blamed. They're worried about reparations. But again, you'd have to believe in coincidences on top of them.

This broke out in this city. I think the argument's pretty powerful that it came from these experiments there. And then it raises some very awkward questions about American funding of some of these experiments and so forth. But I think it's, I don't think this is actually a big mystery anymore. All right, more news now in Southern California. Firefighters got some much needed relief.

Battling wildfires as rain fell in the area over the weekend, but the region is now under a flood watch until this afternoon. Officials are warning residents in burned areas that scattered showers could bring about hazardous waste, toxic ash runoff and mudslides. In preparation, officials put out sandbags and installed concrete barriers. They also started clearing out debris in fire affected neighborhoods. And Dutch police are investigating a daring burglary over the weekend.

Surveillance video from early Saturday morning shows three suspects pulling on a door at the Drents Museum in the Netherlands. Moments later, there's a large explosion that removed the door from its hinges. Police say the thieves got away with a golden helmet and golden bracelets that date back to the 5th century BC, which once belonged to Romanian royalty.

So, Joe, there's the bracelet you were gonna get me. You know, I have a question for Sam Stein. Yeah. Well, yeah, well, you know, there's the bracelet you were gonna get me. You know, I have a question for Sam Stein. Yeah. Well, yeah, well, you know, it's very interesting. I FaceTimed Lemire last night. I saw something that looked vaguely like that. We'll see that. Sam Stein, are you with me?

Like, I called Lemire all week, and I go, where are you? He goes, uh, Brooklyn? I go, well, why did it have that that like, I had a different ring. He goes, um, um, the Bronx? I mean, come on Sam. I think we're very busy weekend. I had trouble reaching with him too. And then he answered the phone and there's all this random Dutch speaking in the background and muzzled talk because he has a helmet over him and I just don't know. Jonathan, where were you?

Yeah. I like to watch NFL playoff games in Dutch sports bars. What can I say? Okay. Coming up, Pablo Torre is here to recap the championship weekend for the NFL playoffs and break down the matchup for Superball 59. Mourning Joe is back in just a moment. The game everyone at the heavyweight battle we got the quarterbacks at the top of the mountain. First to guard.

And still has it. To the five and in for the touchdown! There he is, Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes adds his second rushing touchdown to his 245 yards passing. He also got a TD in the air against the Buffalo Bills last night. That one gave the Chiefs the lead early in the fourth quarter. The Bills tied the game on the next possession.

Nine play, 90 yard drive, capped by Josh Allen's big fourth down throw to Curtis Samuel in the back of the end zone. But Mahomes answered with four consecutive completions to set up a go ahead field goal. And the Chiefs defense did the rest of the work. KC making a huge stop on what would be Buffalo's final drive. Denying the Bills on fourth down to force a turnover with two minutes left to play.

Alvin KK had a shot at that ball. Tough, tough catch. Couldn't bring it in. The Chiefs get a couple of first downs, run out the clock, and they win. 32- 29 in the AFC title game, their dreams of a 3 Pete still alive the chiefs will be the familiar opponent in the Super Bowl after the Philadelphia Eagles dismantled the Washington

commanders. The national title earlier yesterday at starting back say one Barclay he rushed 118 yards and 3 touchdowns including that one on the Eagles first play scrimmage Washington had moved the field fell down the field slowly one play back touchdown. Eagles also took advantage of 4 turnovers by the commanders and senior managers ran magic yesterday and Philly scored the most points by team. A conference championship in the modern NFL era Eagles who

look the commanders 55 to 23 so Super Bowl 59 is Sunday, February 9th, okay, the Superdome in New Orleans. It's a rematch of the big game just 2 years ago that was won by the chiefs who now face the Eagles for a second time in their bid for an unprecedented 3 Pete so Joe, I mean I will say I don't think this is exactly the Super Bowl matchup most of America wanted we just did see

this game. Two years ago that said there are some compelling storylines of course chiefs be looking to become the first team ever to win 3 in a row the homes already going for his fourth and then we have the Eagles. Say Kwan Barkley the most exciting player in the league right now. You know they've got a strong defense to yeah be good one. Didn't Saquon used to play for the Giants, Richard? He did.

I can't suggest to my left. Wow. Let me make the point that, Oh boy. so gifted a player, if he had played for the Giants this year, he wouldn't be playing now because they never would have been near the playoffs.

He never would have had more than a thousand yards. So I don't feel any, any, discover it's great to see a great player have a chance to show up. It's nice Richard. Richard please stop. You don't mean any of that. Richard doesn't mean any of that. Let's bring it right now though as Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Art Media. MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre first of all I think we can all

agree Washington has a great future with Jaden Daniels, a great future. Things like that happen, you know, first time to the big dance and certainly the championship game. But you know, I want to say something that that I mean, I don't want to say, but I'm going to have to say it. I know you're going to agree with me here. You know, Nick Saban would say, you know, there's blocking, there's tackling, but there's also just knowing how to win.

That is a talent in and of itself. Bear Bryant used to say it about Pat Tram was favorite quarterback. He said he couldn't run, he couldn't throw, but if you needed six yards for a first down, he'd get you seven. They're just those type of players. And there's a reason why today we talk about Joe Montana as being one of the greats of all time and not Jim Kelly. Because in those moments where you've got to make the last drive to win the game, Joe Montana always did it. Jim Kelly, God bless him. I loved him. He didn't at that level. And of course, I love Josh Allen, everything about that guy. He is Buffalo, but he is not, it hurts me to say, he is not Patrick Mahomes.

No, he is Salieri. I said this to you on Friday. F. Murray Abraham is going to be on your show later today. It happens to be, I look this up cosmically, Mozart's birthday today. I don't know if you're having mom's day or not, but I say that because Patrick Mahomes is a prodigy, okay? No one has had a start to his career like this guy in professional football, and at a certain point, a prodigy can become a super villain.

And the question is whether you feel like Salieri, or whether you feel like Claire McAskell at this point. Because, Joe, what you're talking about, knowing how to win, the Chiefs, it's beyond, I think, an intuitive feel. It is something, it's something deeper and darker. We just haven't seen a team truly squeeze the randomness out of the most random sport that America loves and turn it into order. And if you're the Bills, if you're,

whether you're the ghost of Jim Kelly or whether you're the family of Dalton Kincaid, that tight end who dropped that ball on fourth down that was so so so close to making that potentially a tie game. You throw your hands up and you're like I think I think we're just we've been banished to the dustbin of history that's how it feels to be anybody else but the chiefs right and Pablo is remarkable winning streak in one score games. The chiefs have they lost the turnover battle yesterday but still overcame that but let's give credit here we look

home. Stats are flash he did just enough that's what he does let's get credit chiefs defense and the Steve Spagnolo defensive coordinator who knows exactly when to send blitzes in this overwhelming pressure and they also stop Josh Allen on short yardage repeatedly now we saw the one we talked about the officiating earlier. That was, I think we can agree a bad call. But beyond that play, they really negated

Allen's running for the most part. That's why they won the game, the defense. Oh, this play here, right? So what happens on this play? They do a corner blitz. You hadn't seen that. So Steve Spegnola, who is the defensive architect of the Chiefs, on the play that mattered the most,

again, knowing how to win, he sends a cornerback that discombobulates Josh Allen into making a decision that is almost bailed out, but is, in general, a terrible one. And when it comes to Mahomes also, in terms of just like the surprise element, the reason I say it's deeper and darker than just like, wow, they're really good,

Patrick Mahomes, there was a designed run in which he scored a touchdown. And Patrick Mahomes at one point had dislocated his knee on a designed run, 2019. He just doesn't do it anymore. They break it out to break your back. And it's just like, what do you do? What do you do when they still have that?

I know. When they still can do that. Sam. Hey, Pablo, it's Sam Stein. Look, let's look forward now, right? We have the Iran-Iraq war of the Super Bowl here. Chief Therese's Eagles, who do we root for? But I will say this.

That was a dark parallel. The Eagles do the tush push. We just talked about the Chief's ability to stop Josh Allen. The Eagles do the tush push better than anybody. And we just saw that where the commanders had to jump over off sides like four times in a row to try to stop it. Are we looking at a trench warfare type Super Bowl? What are your expectations for this game?

Yeah, there is a think piece in that Eagles commanders game that Sam just referenced. At one point, the referee came on and said, if this behavior continues, referring to how the commanders were trying to leap the line to stop desperately the tush push at any cost. He said, I'm going to award the Eagles the touchdown automatically.

He called it a quote unquote palpably unfair act, which is a thing I had never heard before in a football game. It's a rule. So if you're asking, is this game, the Super Bowl, going to be a lot of just this stuff, messes in the trenches? The Eagles would love that.

So what the Eagles did was they had six rushing touchdowns on the ground, but it was the tush push again that was the thing that feels unstoppable. And now there's this debate, do you outlaw it? Is it actually too unstoppable? And to me, as ugly as it is, it's telling that only the Eagles do it that well. Typically, you got to have some copycats to make this a thing where you got to ban it. They just have mastered this play that could be the one thing, the one saving grace against, again,

the unbeatable Kansas City Chiefs, the unstoppable play versus the unbeatable options. Actually, the Chief showed you why it doesn't need to be banned because some people know how to stop it. It's remarkable how many times they did stop Josh Ellin. It's very annoying. By the way, we talk about Mahomes being the greatest, but I just want to really quickly, Pablo, I mean, Andy Reid,

and he's just such an offensive genius. Steve Spagnola, a defensive genius. Have we ever had two coaches lined up like that that are that good with a quarterback that is that good? Because we could talk about Mahomes, but Mahomes isn't winning these Super Bowls without Steve Spagnola's defense, with Andy Reid's without Andy Reid system. It's just the best combination we've ever seen. It feels like it like the Patriots again. I'll do respect to John Lemire at the table here. But Andy Reid just to keep in mind like if Andy Reid wins a Super Bowl,

there's an argument. This guy really should be in the conversation for when you talk about the greatest coaches of all time. And also, by the way, Andy Reid was formerly, again, himself famously, Eagles coach. Couldn't win the big one. So when it comes to just the narratives we spin, Andy Reid has a chance to completely change that first sentence of his obituary

and have a very different introduction when it gets inducted inevitably into the Hall of Fame. It's a remarkable thing when you have a perfect coach and a perfect quarterback. It's the dream and also, you know, it's a nightmare. And arguably he was the Eagles greatest coach ever and now of course the Chiefs greatest coach ever. Mika, the Australian Open,

a lot of drama at the at the open. And Sinner wins. Just he's tearing it up right now. Top-seeded Yannick Sinner is the Australian Open champion for a second consecutive time defending his title in a straight set win over number two seed Alexander Zverev yesterday. On the women's side, American Madison Keys broke through on Saturday for her first grand slam title. Keys upset number one, Irina Samalenka in three sets, earning the major and a number seven world ranking.

Host of Pablotory finds out on Metal Arch Media. Pablo, thank you so much. We'll see you again soon. Thank you, Mika, as always, for your indulgence. Yes, of course. Very polite to each other today.