Morning Joe - Morning Joe 1/30/23

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

Footage of Tyre Nichols traffic stop released

No mother, no mother, no mother should go through what I'm going through right now. No mother to lose their child to the violent way that I lost my child. I want to say to the five police officers that murdered my son, you also disgraced your own families when you did this. But you know what? I'm going to pray for you and your families because at the end of the day, this shouldn't have happened. This just shouldn't have happened. This just shouldn't have happened. Rowan Wells, the mother of Tyree Nichols, describing the grief she is feeling while showing grace for the families of the men accused of killing her son. The video showing some of Nichols' final moments was released on Friday.

Nichols crying out for his mother just down the block from her house. It has sparked outrage and protests around the country. More action from the Memphis Police Department as well. We also got our first look at what happened the night Paul Pelosi, the husband of Nancy Pelosi, was attacked. It comes as the man accused in the attack makes some bizarre and disturbing comments in a phone call about that night and what more he wanted to do. The brutal beating Pelosi sustained was often mocked and questioned by not just far right wingers, but members of Congress. We're going to look at how they gleefully amplified a loop of misinformation. And speaking of misinformation, Marjorie Taylor Greene spread a lot of it about COVID. So why is she a house on the House Select Committee investigating the pandemic?

We'll play for you. Speaker Kevin McCarthy's answer to that. Plus, we'll have new polling on the classified documents cases involving President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump. Also, Donald Trump kicked off his third presidential campaign this weekend. But this run for the White House had a really different approach and couldn't really see the crowds. At least for now, the approach appears to be very different. And we'll explain why that might be just ahead. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, January 30th.

Joe and Willie are off this morning. Joe's traveling back here. But John, the LeMire, I'm going to give you the task of telling us who won yesterday's NFL championship games. This falls to you. I am giving you 30 seconds. I'm happy to embrace it, Mika. We've got a good Super Bowl matchup, but how we got there a little underwhelming yesterday. The Kansas City Chiefs took on the Cincinnati Bengals yesterday in Arrowhead. A lot of questions about Patrick Mahomes' health. He had a bad ankle. He was gutty. He played well throughout. This was a back-and-forth game there. The Bengals came back to tie it late. We're watching right

here with just a few seconds to go, under 30 seconds to go in the game. Mahomes on that bad ankle, scrambles for a first down, and then a late hit penalty. If he called, I guess it's the right one, against the Bengals, tacked on 15 yards, and that allowed the Chiefs to set up for a game-winning field goal, 48-yarder, with just a few seconds left. So this is a rematch of last year's AFC title game. Last year, the Bengals got it. This year, the Chiefs got it. A lot of questions, I will say, about the officiating in this game, shaky throughout. And certainly a lot of Bengals fans feel like the Chiefs got the benefit of the call. But at least this game was compelling,

Mika. The game before that, Eagles 49ers, it was over within minutes. The 49ers had this great story. Rookie quarterback Brock Purdy, who had been undefeated to this point in the season, he got hurt within a few minutes of the game, had to leave. The 49ers backup quarterback, well, he got hurt too. They had to bring back in Purdy. Problem is he couldn't throw the ball. So the 49ers couldn't do anything on offense, and it was a cakewalk for the Eagles. Jalen Hurts rushed for a touchdown, looked pretty good. They ran the ball. They forced some turnovers. They ended up winning in a rout. So yesterday, maybe a bit underwhelming, but this game in two weeks should be a good one. It's the two number one seeds, Chiefs and Eagles,

first matchup ever. Two black quarterbacks, Patrick Mahomes, Jalen Hurts, two of the best players in the league. That should be a fun one. And Mika, we have two full weeks to talk about it. OK, well done, Jonathan Lemire. Thank you. Also with us, the host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, president of the National Action Network, Reverend Al Sharpton. And Reverend, we'll get right to our top story, which, of course, begins in Memphis, where police have released that video showing officers beating Tyree Nichols. The video is every bit as horrific as Memphis officials had warned it would

be. We are not going to show it this morning. Body camera footage and video from surveillance cameras from January 7th show officers hitting, kicking and pepper spraying Tyree Nichols. Memphis police released several angles totaling more than an hour of footage. In the video, 29 year old Tyree Nichols can be heard calling out for his mother. Nichols was hospitalized and then died three days later. The five officers seen in the video have been fired and charged with second-degree murder. Multiple attempts by NBC News to reach the officers to comment have been unsuccessful. After the videos were released, the lawyer for one officer said

he would review it with his client, quote, at the appropriate time. After the videos were released, President Biden said in a statement that he was outraged. He has called for a swift, full and transparent investigation and spoke with Nichols' parents on Friday. Reverend Dow, there is so much to talk about here. First of all, exactly what happened. But then, of course, the legal ripple effects that I think will have a wide swath here because it's not just the Scorpion unit and what happened to Tyree,

but every other arrest they have made probably in the past year has to be looked at now. Every arrest may be in this entire police department. And of course, there's calls for legislation on police brutality. This was depravity at its at its lowest level, if that's possible. And I'm not even sure how many cops were there total beyond the five. No, you're absolutely right. There were other police involved that we feel should be charged. Clearly, they did not come and not only try and stop it, they participated in some form or another. But when you look at the fact that these policemen were actually doing acts, beating on this young man.

And at the same time, were verbally saying things that were different than what was happening. They were saying, give us your hands. We want to cuff you. Give us your hands while they had his arms up. It makes you feel they were in a premeditated way trying to do a narrative into their body cams to protect them while they inflicted brutality. I imagine they forgot or didn't know about the air cameras that was there in the county that would give a different view, even if they distorted the body cams. So this is a deliberate, planned way that they attacked him.

And it makes one wonder, have they done these kinds of things before? I was involved 32 years ago when I started National Action Network in the Rodney King case. This was worse than Rodney King. When I saw this, it was absolutely chilling. And as I've talked to the parents, I'll be doing the eulogy this Wednesday there at his funeral. The parents have taken this with with supreme, superior grace, but at the same time, determination. And there has to be justice. The Memphis Police Department has announced it will permanently disband the Scorpion unit in response to the deadly beating of Tyree Nichols. All five of the officers charged with

Nichols' death were members of that unit. The specialized team was meant to focus on violent crime in, quote, hotspot areas, according to Memphis Mayor Jim Strickland. But just one day after the release of the footage showing the officers beating Tyree Nichols, the police department determined the team should deactivate. In a statement, the department claimed the officers currently assigned to the unit agree unreservedly with this next step. Civil rights attorney Ben Crump, who is representing the Nichols family, called the beating of Tyree a, quote, pattern and practice

for the unit. The Memphis City Police chief promised to complete an independent review of all of the department's units, including Scorpion. Joining us now, Commissioner of Public Safety for the city of Minneapolis, which has had its share of challenges, Cedric Alexander. And, sir, Reverend Al asks if this has been done before by this unit. It's impossible to think that it hasn't when you watch the video and you see the way in which they went after this young man and almost considered it a game for them or some sort of collective collective groupthink. And I'm still trying to understand where the move to disengage, to pull back, de-escalate, how that could not have happened with five cops and then other cops standing around. This was a level that is very hard to put into words. And I wonder if you could

speak on what police officers are trained in terms of de-escalation and what in the world do you think happened here? Well, first of all, good morning to you and Rev. Let me start by saying this. It is clear right from the beginning of that stop, everything we observed on that video, certainly do suggest one thing very clear to me, someone who's been around this profession for a very, very long time, and I believe many of my colleagues across the country would agree. This type of behavior certainly, without question, probably has been conducted before out there on those streets in Memphis.

People had to suffer under the hands of these officers who went way beyond the scope of their duties legally. And I would suggest also, from the beginning of that stop, when they snatched him out of the car, their rudeness, their brazenness, their very cowardly conduct of beating him to the way that they did suggested to me even further, they were operating without supervision. And that is a real problem. Where was the supervisor? From the time of that stop, from the calls that they had to hear over the radio, no supervisor, as far as we know, was en route to that scene I was at that scene and this could

have been averted it that supervisor been paying attention had been there that is a problem in and of itself secondly training that you asked about training I would guarantee that they all have been to training but whether you use that training whether you exercise that training, whether you exercise that training, which also comes with oversight of supervision, I guarantee you there was a failure there to utilize any training that they have ever received and probably had not ever used any of the training. If you listen to their huffing and puffing, their shortness of breath suggested me they were in horrible physical condition.

And when you're in horrible physical condition. And when you're in horrible physical condition under those types of stressful situations, you will revert to anything or any method in order to meet that mission. And in this particular case, they attempted to subdue him as he, the victim in this case, was crying for help. There was no show of compassion. There was no show of humanity. And they are rightly, and I support Chief C.J. Davis, who is a friend and a colleague, in her swift actions that she took to have them terminated. And subsequently, they were indicted by the DA there in Shelby County. This is tragic. This is embarrassing to all of us in the law enforcement community. We're ashamed by it, but we're going to do everything that we can to continue to move forward and build trust in our communities. And Reverend Al, the police chief did act

accordingly, firing the officers immediately upon seeing the video and also making sure that they got charged. Having said that, she's got her hands full. I mean, this is a department that is rotten. At least that unit was. It's fair to say. And every single case that has come up to that police department now has to be looked at. Now, absolutely. now has to be looked at. Absolutely. One of the things I do agree is this chief acted swiftly even before they were charged.

Before they were charged, she fired them. And she showed a new timeline, Mika, because we've been told in many of these cases, well, it takes time to investigate, and we've had to wait months before charges. They will never be able to sell that to the public again. When you saw the immediate way this chief acted and I think properly as well as the D.A. But let me ask you this, Cedric, because one of the things that has troubled me since I got involved day one with this, with the family, is that they have not established

even what it is they stopped him for. When you look at the whole tape and the police chief has said she's reviewed the tape, she has not seen any reckless driving. They never really explained why they stopped him in the first place. less known done to him what they did. There's no evidence that there was even a crime they were after. And that's going to be problematic, Reverend Al, because if they can't be able to identify any reasonable cause, any probable cause as to why they needed to make that stop. It just continues to indicate, I think, to all of us of the reckless behavior and the conduct that they were performing each and every day and night in that community. So that is problematic. That is concerning,

that you just stop an individual for no particular reason. Now, even if they come up and they devise a reason for the stop, that still does not excuse the behavior of when they pull them over, snatch them out to car, demean him, dehumanize him, the way in which they did. That is troubling and painful to all of us. But let me say this one thing. The 700,000 men and women who serve us every day in this country are embarrassed and shamed.

And those are the men and women who still come to work every day, those police officers across this country, who now we have to go out and even work harder to continue to have the trust in our communities across this country, who now we have to go out and even work harder to continue to have the trust in our communities across this country. But let's not forget about the good officers here in Minneapolis and across this country who work hard every day to make sure that we keep our communities safe and we do it constitutionally. Yes, we still got challenges ahead of us across the country, but we're going to get there. But events like this

certainly don't help us any. And Mika, there was certainly already, there was already a debate across the country as to the utility of these specialized units in the target certain areas. And now, of course,

this one in Memphis disbanded. But the word there is dehumanized. That's correct. I mean, the video is, it's a rage. It's almost a mob mentality that we see these officers here behaving so grossly and appropriately to a person who, as the Rev said, we're not even sure what he is accused of doing wrong. And certainly he was calling for his mother there.

And yet the viciousness of the attack didn't didn't alleviate at all. It didn't cease. And I think that this is now a moment we we a couple of years ago, we thought perhaps an inflection point after George Floyd died, the national conversation. It was an important national conversation to have about the relationship between police and community. But we're having it again. Unfortunately, part of that conversation is not much has changed. Well, and actually, to Cedric Alexander's point, this specific event actually shows us the extent of our challenges, just how deep the problem can run in some police departments.

Minneapolis Commissioner of Public Safety, Cedric Alexander, thank you very much for being on this morning. We look forward to talking to you again as we continue to follow every angle of this story. And still ahead on Morning Joe, much more from Memphis following the release of that police body cam video showing the brutal assault of Tyree Nichols. We'll get an update on the investigation from the Shelby County District Attorney. Plus, we'll be joined by the parents of Tyree Nichols this morning. We'll also discuss policing in America with former Congresswoman in Orlando, Police Chief Val Demings, who says police can't wait for legislation. They must reform themselves.

Also ahead, Democrat Wes Moore will join us to talk about his first week as governor of Maryland, plus a troubling prediction from a top Air Force official about a potential war with China within the next two years and what's being called a sleepy start to Donald Trump's 2024 campaign. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. A lot of news to get to at 22 past the hour on Friday. San Francisco police released clips from last October's vicious assault on Paul Pelosi, the husband of Nancy Pelosi. It includes surveillance video from Capitol Police allegedly showing the suspect, David DePap, breaking into the home in the middle of the night. It also includes police body cam video at the house and DePapp attacking Pelosi with a hammer. We warn you, this video of what exactly happened is disturbing.

Hi, how you doing? How are you? What's going on, man? Everything's good. Hi. Drop the hammer. Um, nope. Hey. Hey, hey, hey. What is going on right now? I'm not getting an answer on call back. Oh,. I'm gonna get a call from the area that you're calling in now. I got him, Michael.

I'm gonna jump, was in backup code three. Meanwhile, the man charged with attacking Paul Pelosi is speaking out in a bizarre jailhouse phone call to pap contacted a local TV station in the Bay Area, essentially confessing to the crime and apologizing for not doing more damage. Inspired by Trump, 42-year-old DePapp is charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse, residential burglary, false imprisonment and threatening a public official for the attack on the 82-year-old Pelosi. He has pleaded not guilty. The release of the body cam video is also putting a sharper focus on how some far-right Republicans, leaders, activists, media outlets began spreading groundless claims about the attack

on Paul Pelosi almost immediately after it happened. Disinformation, nearly all of them sinister and many homophobic, trying to cast doubt on what actually happened. Former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois tweeted out this list compiled by The Seattle Times, calling out 20 elected officials, candidates and or prominent figures or people who want to be prominent, who made fun of Paul Pelosi or helped spread misinformation about the attack in the days after. And when I read this list, I mean, just keep in mind, this is your Republican Party, high level names being behaving in a simply disgraceful way. Some of the Republican politicians include Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who amplified doubts that all the facts were disclosed. Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who suggested Pelosi knew

his attacker. Louisiana Congressman Clay Higgins, who suggested the attack involved male prostitution. North Carolina Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, who raised doubts about the details of the attack. Georgia Statehouse candidate Mary Williams-Benhamfield, who suggested the attack might have been staged. Minnesota Statehouse candidate Royce White, who claimed the attack involved an extramarital gay affair. Arizona State Senator Wendy Rogers, who suggested the attack, might have been staged. Florida State Representative Anthony Sabatini, who suggested that the Pelosi's are hiding vital information. New York Congresswoman Claudia Tenney, who amplified a conspiracy theory about an extramarital gay affair.

And here's what some other prominent figures said. Glenn Beck raising doubts about the details of the attack. Far-right commentator Dinesh D'Souza claimed the attack involved an extramarital gay affair. Dinesh, one of those Ivy Leaguers, really honestly casting a dark, dark light on his institution. So embarrassing. Far-right commentator Ryan Fournier claimed details about the attack were fabricated. Former deputy assistant to President Trump, Sebastian Gorka, raised doubts about the details of the attack. Fox News host Pete Hegseth and media personality Megan Kelly raised doubts that all the facts were being disclosed. Elon Musk amplified a conspiracy theory about male prostitution. Former Republican Congressman Devin Nunes repeated a false report

that the attacker was in his underwear. Far-right activist Michael Savage raised doubts that all the facts were disclosed. Roger Stone suggested the attack was staged. And former President Donald Trump, all-you're-alls leader, because you can't quit them, you don't know what to do with yourselves, suggested the attack was staged. Words that come to mind, soulless, depraved, unfit, just not serious and really damaging to our democracy. Let's bring in the founder of the conservative website, the bulwark, Charlie Sykes. Charlie, you know, we get used to this behavior and that's exactly what Trump did. The fire hose of falsehoods, the terrible, disgusting, depraved behavior, racism, sexism, all of these things he brought to the table to the point where

people have become almost immune to it. They're used to it. But these are the Republican leaders right now. When you see that video of Paul Pelosi and you think about what they did, just tweeting away a bunch of losers trying to become relevant, but destroying the fabric of our society in the process. Where does Paul Pelosi go to get his apology? How many of those officials or those figures have said, you know, I'm sorry, I was wrong about all of this. How many of them have reached out to the Pelosi family? How many of them have gone back to their audiences and said, yeah, sort of, you know, sort of, you know, apology, non-apology. Look, I am really glad you are highlighting this, doubling back, because at some point there needs to be some accountability. And to your point,

we can't get numbed about all of this. Here you had a vicious attack and you see the loop of conspiracy theories, of disinformation, the kinds of tweets that were being put out that mocked this attack, when in fact what you saw was exactly as it was described in the earlier police report. And I think it's a pretty good illustration of the way in which this vicious misinformation has become part of the norm, at least on the right, and without any conscience whatsoever. I mean, there's no hesitancy these days to mock a vicious and could have been a fatal attack on an 82-year-old man. I mean, the lack of humanity, the lack of decency,

the lack of concern for the truth really on display there. And I hope people do look at this graphic, all of the people who put out this misinformation and who have yet to apologize or to correct it. It's it's it's it's it's really it's really it's really a powerful thing. And I'm really glad you read that because we really need to know who these people are and what they are capable of doing and their lack and their lack of remorse afterwards. Well, if you look at these names and faces, these are a mixture of people who are in power. I don't know if we can put the graphic up and people who are trying to get power, trying to become relevant again, have been knocked out of media business or whatever, it doesn't matter. When you are jumping to make fun of or push lies about an 82 year old man getting smashed over the head, you have lost it.

You're you're sick. I mean, it's it's this is not what we want out of our leaders. And I can tell you there are many American citizens who are Republicans who voted in the midterms, Charlie. And they said to themselves, I don't really like insurrections. I don't like insurrectionists. I don't like people who spread lies. I don't like people who have sold their soul to Donald Trump or to a desperate need to get attention on the back of someone who's been brutalized. I mean, this is sick behavior and it has pervaded the Republican Party. Right. And cruelty is part of this culture. Cruelty is the point, but also a reminder that

brutality is also an ideology. And this celebration of violence in a world in which in which a vicious attack like this can, you know, result in not just the lies, but also kind of the wink wink. Isn't this cool? And you and you have the attacker who then calls in and says, well, I apologize. I didn't get more. Well, who is he playing to? Where does he come from? We have created an ugly political cultural moment where, in fact, violence is celebrated. You have the former

president giving speeches in which he makes it clear that brutality is, in fact, the point. And we wonder how then it manifests itself in the rest of society. So you had this attack, which was, you know, evil enough. But the response and the continuing response is its own, you know, is its own tell about how sick our political culture has become. And not only, Rev, did we not get apologies from these figures over the weekend, some even doubled down on the release on Friday, still raising questions with what the video showed, trying to make insinuations between Paul Pelosi and the man who then we saw hit him with a hammer over the head, Donald Trump Jr., among those doing that. But to Charlie's point, it does seem like it's just another moment where the normalization of

political violence, that this is after January 6th, we've had instances of the violent rhetoric has picked up. We have seen this terrible incident. We have seen other incidents where violence has been threatened. And it's the conspiracies are taking center stage. And many of those embracing these conspiracies are now being put in positions of power in the new Republican House of Representatives. That is probably the most frightening to see those that came to notoriety giving, selling, promoting conspiracy theories that were far, far away from the truth. Now, in positions of real power in government to see people in real power just fabricate

things about Mr. Pelosi, a victim that is fighting for recovery and just making all kind of erroneous statements about him. And when the tape comes out to show exactly what happens, they won't recount. The normalization that Sykes is talking about is frightening because that means anyone can be subjected to this at any time and it won't even matter. And we become numb to the fact that people in this country can be targeted and in many ways harmed, if not worse. And it'll be all right. We're going to the next story. Just two weeks ago, we saw Asians killed in California. A week later, we see police brutality in Memphis. And we're like, OK, what's next?

It's like we're watching the countdown to the Super Bowl rather than a real erosion of where we are in this country in terms of our values and our morals. All right. So as we saw the assault on Paul Pelosi and, you know, the video is horrific. Just as we go to break, want to take another look at the graphic of all the people who jumped to make fun of an 82 year old man having his head bashed in who is still recovering today. Take it in. Take it in. These names, these these names put out depraved disinformation brought to you probably by the example set by Donald Trump. You see his name on the list as well. He was front and center with it. Why does it matter? Because Donald Trump hit the campaign trail this weekend. This list should show you that we should never underestimate Trump's impact,

what he has done to this country, what he has done to our democracy, what he has done to our members of Congress, exemplifying their weaknesses and depravity in some cases, and what he still can do. Coming up on Morning Joe, Donald Trump's campaign limping into its beginning phases. We'll have the very latest when we come back. I've said over and over again that he can't win a general election. And that's not speculation. That's based upon the polling that I was privy to pre the 2020 election and what we saw actually happen in the 2020 election. And it's only gotten worse since then. Then add to it what you saw happen in 2022. The election deniers losing across the country, bad candidates like Mastriano in Pennsylvania, dragging the entire Pennsylvania ticket down in a historic way.

Kerry Lake, Blake Masters, Tim Michaels, Tudor Jones. We could go through the entire list. Loser, loser, loser, loser. And I think Republicans are recognizing that. One of the reasons he became the Republican nominee in 2016 is because he won the first primary state, your state of New Hampshire. Could he do that again? Oh, he could. I don't think he will. He could. You know, one state of New Hampshire. Could he do that again? Oh, he could. I don't think he will. He could. You know, one thing, I mean, obviously, he started his campaign after the election in 22.

That obviously had a lot of stumbling blocks that he was trying to overcome. He comes to New Hampshire, and frankly, he gives a very mundane speech. The response we've received is he read his teleprompter. He stuck to the talking points. He went away. So he's not really bringing that fire, that energy, I think, that a lot of folks saw in 16. I think in many ways it was a little disappointing to some folks. And another thing, it's just a visual, but people standing on stage with him look a little

uncomfortable. It's just a snapshot. New Hampshire's Republican Governor Chris Sununu, with that assessment at former President Donald Trump's weekend stop in his state, where Trump addressed an annual state party meeting at a high school auditorium. Trump was also in South Carolina, where he introduced his state leadership team. And that's the picture I'm talking about at the state capitol before speaking. His speeches in both states largely mirrored each other and focused on his usual grievances. Let's bring in senior writer for The Dispatch, David Drucker. David, listen, never underestimate Donald Trump is something that I've learned to say from the get go.

Having said that, something did seem really different over the weekend? Well, look, I think, Mika, what's different this time is he's not a new politician on the scene who is the ultimate change agent. And what really worked for him in 2016 in a Republican Party, but also in the general election, is that he was the change agent. And change agents tend to be successful in presidential elections. He's now a six year, seven year incumbent, essentially. He's been on the scene that long. His his policy program isn't new. His shtick, if you will, isn't new. And so everything that he did in 2016 and even in the 2020 campaign has now been warmed over and voters are extremely used to it. The other thing and this is, you know, we forget, but this is a big deal. He won in 2016 and Republicans looked at that and said, I may not like everything he says or does, but if he can win, then we've got to we've got to capitalize on that.

And after 20, after 2018, 2020 and 2022, there's now some disenchantment with Trump. However, as you mentioned, and this is a really big deal, he is the frontrunner because a good third of the Republican base is still with him or at least willing to support him. And if we have a crowded primary, he can get through with a plurality. So, Charlie, I don't know if you want to take it to David, but quickly, to David's point, his shtick is old, but also the shtick that he does on stage

is different because now I think he's dealing with smaller audiences. They're inside. This is not good for Trump. This gets in his head. He starts to sweat when he had the massive crowds. And I actually remember one of his first campaign events in Alabama, And it was a show. His shtick was a show. It was to the audience, a lot of humor, a lot of just sort of crazed ideas. But he brought in a lot of humor. Some of it was sick. I'm not saying it was great, but it kept the audience going and roused up the audience. And that audience fed him to continue with it. And it and I remember calling Joe, watching him in Alabama. I don't know where Joe was, but I was calling him and I said, this is bad.

This this guy is going to do OK. He's going to win the primary. We said that very early on. I don't see that same candidate. I see something something's more bloated and limping along, not not really into it. Yeah, it's got a real fat Elvis vibe to it. It was it was low energy. It was it was sleepy. It was very much not the the charismatic Donald Trump of the past. And I put that in quotation marks. But but David's analysis

is exactly right here. It is still very, very early. And even though he is is diminished and he is sleepy and he is much, much slower right now, he is the default nominee for the Republican Party. It's more likely than not that he will win. And you have to keep reminding yourself, don't underestimate this guy. That's right. He can win with 38, 40% of the Republican base if there is a crowded field. The Republican Party will coalesce around him

if they have to. Even the never again Trumpers won't commit to not supporting him if he is the nominee. And as of this moment, he's the only candidate who is who is announced. So we're all sitting around here, you know, waiting for Godot, waiting for Ron DeSantis, who may or may not run. He is completely untested. And I think that's the big question mark. You know, we know a lot of Republicans are saying, yes, we want to take the off ramp.

We want to move on. We need we need new blood. But until they actually do it, we need to keep reminding ourselves what happened in 2016 and what this Republican Party has shown that it is capable of doing and rallying around Donald Trump. So, David, to Charlie's point, you can't beat something with nothing. So eventually Republicans are going to have to field other candidates. And one that you've been zeroing in on is Mike Pompeo, who, of course, served as former President Trump's CIA director and then secretary of state. And you write about how he's gone on the offensive against Trump. And I'll also note he sort of decided to cozy up to the Saudis, which is sort of a strange campaign tactic to my eyes. But tell us what you think Pompeo is up to. Well, Pompeo is holding meetings with donors, with activists. He's taking a look at potential

staff hires. He's doing everything that somebody who wants to run for president is going to do. And so I asked him about that. And he's treading lightly, I think, like a lot of other candidates, not all, but like a lot of them. He wants to see not only how strong Trump is, but what Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, does. I did ask Pompeo if any sense of deference or loyalty to Donald Trump would keep him out of the race. He said absolutely not. Another really interesting part of the interview, which we'll drop later with our Dispatch Politics newsletter, is what he has been doing in relation to classified documents. Has he looked for them? He says that he thinks he has, and he doesn't think he has any. Has he been contacted by the Department of Justice or by NARA? He didn't want to discuss that,

but there were a number of foreign policy topics, how he would handle China as president that he gets into in his book that we discussed at length. I think the very interesting thing here is despite how strong Donald Trump remains in the Republican Party, he is not strong enough anymore to keep out competitors. And so the key with his potential competitors from Chris Christie to Mike Pompeo to Nikki Haley to former Vice President Mike Pence is not so much whether they can win or not. That's a that's a question that still has to be answered, but that they're not staying away simply because he's in what they're all trying to avoid is a repeat of 2016. But some of them will run and you cannot beat Trump with nothing. He will not go away on his own. And so then the question becomes for whoever runs, will they go at him the way it is necessary to do so,

to show the base that you are a fighter, and then rather than take a chance on another four years, if Trump could even get through a general election, why don't you take a chance on another eight years? There you go. David Drucker, Charlie Sykes, thank you both very much for being on this morning. And coming up, we'll have a look at some of the headlines making front pages of the newspapers across the country. And in our next hour, Maryland Governor Wes Moore joins us for the first time since he took office. Morning Joe is back in just a moment. Beautiful shot of lower Manhattan at six fifty two a.m. on the East Coast. Time now for a look at the morning papers. The South Jersey Times has a front page feature on a New Jersey congressman's push to require hospitals to allow visitors. The proposed legislation is in response to people losing their loved ones in the early months of the pandemic

without getting to say goodbye to them. Hospitals were not allowing visitors in an effort to contain the spread of COVID. Experts in Japan and Sweden say those restrictions have had several negative consequences on not only the patient's health, but also the well-being of family members. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports voters have regained trust in Georgia's elections. Confidence hit a low point after the 2020 contest. Now, a new poll finds 73 percent of registered voters were very confident or somewhat confident that this past election was conducted fairly and accurately. That's up from 56 percent of voters one year ago. The Chicago Tribune leads with Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker's vow to make preschool available for every family. In order to do that, the state would have to find a solution to the current staffing shortages and boost funding for early childhood education programs.

Right now, Illinois spends nearly $600 million on those programs. It's not clear how much universal pre-K would cost the state. Let's go to Mississippi. The Clarion Ledger has a front page feature on a bill that makes it harder for electric car companies to sell their products in the state. The legislation would bar automakers from operating their own brick and mortar locations. Instead, they would have to sell vehicles through an independent dealer or franchise. Supporters say this would even the playing field between traditional

dealerships and electric car companies. And Florida Today reports the state is seeing an influx of new residents. Officials say more than 583,000 people traded in their out-of-state licenses for a Sunshine State address last year. That's 28% higher than the average over the previous six years. The majority of those new Florida residents came from another country.